Saturday, May 12, 2007

Bell: Outside Investigation Needed

In a stunning repudiation of City Manager Patrick Baker and Police Chief Steven Chalmers, Mayor Bill Bell has called on AG Roy Cooper to investigate the workings of the DPD in the lacrosse case; three members of the City Council likewise endorsed an outside investigation.

Councilman Eugene Brown agreed: “We’ve been in bed with the mendacities and deception for a year. We need candor.” The report, he continued, “raises more questions than answers.”

Duke law professor Jim Coleman correctly identified the basic problem of the report: “They admit the procedure was inappropriate, and they didn’t do anything to fix the problem . . . It seems designed to respond to the most criticized aspects of the case. It was a useless exercise, not worth whatever effort they put into it.”

And defense attorney Butch Williams offered a pithy response: “The detectives were not detecting.

117 comments:

wayne fontes said...

Patrick Baker and the DPD have met or exceeded all of my expectations with this report.

I look forward to hearing more from them in other venues in the next year.

Legal Eagle said...

IMCO;

The best investigative tool available in this case is for the DPD/DA/City-of-Durham to be charged under the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act).

Separately, RICO may also apply to Duke University/Gang of 88, given their collusion and collective actions to thwart due process, including the subsequent conduct of their underworld Don, a/k/a President Brodhead.

Anonymous said...

The more that is found out about the Gang of 88 the more it appears that some of their actions were crimnal, crimes to thwart due process. All they seemed to know or care about was their hate and their own ignorance. They produced a time of terror on the student body of Duke and the people of Durham.

Anonymous said...

History shows that "biting the bullet" and fessing-up to transgressions is the only thing that will stop the frontal assult of an outraged public. Only then can damage control begin. But organizations and individuals never learn.

Whith the sub-par players in Durham, I am not surprised by their approach to ANYTHING. However, I expected more from the folks at Duke.

Anonymous said...

It looks like what Durham needs is a qualified city manager and a qualified police chief.

Anonymous said...

Keep your eyes on the congressional investigation into the goings on of the Durham Veterans Administration hospital. Follow the articles online in the Charlotte Observer Newspaper by investigative reporter, Stella Hopkins. More Durham-in-Wonderland!

Anonymous said...

Hanging is too good for these people. How about cruel and unusual punishment?

mac said...

Mayor Bell may be one of
the few that can take the
"Duhr" out of Durham.

Patrick-the-hat-trick
Baker says that he is "deeply
disturbed by the allegations"
that the DPD wasn't interested
in the truth?

"Allegations?"
Is that what the Attorney
General made in his report?
"Allegations?"

Hmmm. Has AG Cooper read
that the way it was written?
If so, the gloves will be soon
coming off. And the DPD still
doesn't know what round it is.

Anonymous said...

Finally, a sense of integrity and ethics from Durham.

This report is an insult to their own intelligence saying, "We did nothing wrong because we didn't intend to violate any procedures... oh, by the way, the entire prosecution was based on those very same procedures which we violated".

Then there are the enormous sins of omission: asking Mangum the tough questions, asking Dr. Manley the tough questions, examing the photos, Kim Roberts, other witnesses, etc.

Anonymous said...

I love the part about blaming the "toxic relationship between Nifong and the defense attorneys" as if this wasn't 100.00% one-sided because of Nifong.

It was Nifong who refused to meet with attorneys, it was Nifong who refused to objectively view their information, it was Nifong who responded with demonic actions like going after that cab driver.

If you're going to describe this "toxic relationship" at the very least describe it accurately.

Anonymous said...

Baker told WRAL that he doesn't think an outside investigation is necessary. He also said he was not concerned about a possible lawsuit against the city, even though other City Council members expressed that concern to WRAL.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1405558/

mac said...

It's not hard to imagine
what's going to happen when
DPD, Nifong and Levicy
are all asked why Levicy
was interviewed so many times,
and not Dr. Manley:

Levicy: "they called me."
Investigator(s): "she volunteered."
Nifong: "who's Levicy? Oh. Her.
Well, she gave me the fruit,
and I ate."

Oops. Misattributed Nifong's
comment; the latter was another
Original Sin.

(Lying seems to be part
of both the original and the
present-day versions.)

miramar said...

Baker and Chalmers should remember the old Nixon adage that it wasn't the crime, it was the cover up. And speaking of Nixon, it is time for Mayor Bell to ask, "What did Baker and Chalmers know, and when did they know it?"

By what date did they have information on the first officers' written reports, Roberts' crock comment, Mangum's multiple and contradictory accusations, the time stamped photos, the initially inconclusive and then inadmissible lineups, Mangum's legal and psychological problems, the misleading statements about the blue wall of silence, and the complete lab results from DNA Security?

The DNA Security testing was completed by 10 April 2006, which suggests that within one month of the party Baker and Chalmers knew (or should have known) that the accusations were bogus. In fact, if we were to go back I am sure there were even more indications that the charges made no sense.

Terry Johnson said...

That something was terribly wrong with the investigation was already manifestly clear, even before the AG stepped in. From the perspective of the city council and mayor's office, the report should identify what went wrong and address changes that would be undertaken to prevent it from recurring. And I think the report does that job admirably: the investigation was faulty because it was conducted by people who were unethical, unintelligent, and incompetent; the obvious remedy is to replace the current police department with people who are known to be ethical, intelligent, and competent.

Anonymous said...

How can an average working class citizen of Durham protest this report? Is there an email address to write the city council? Is there a petition to be signed. We need a real investigation into the activities of the DPD.

Anonymous said...

While all these investigations are taking place, perhaps they can publish a running tab of the costs, so we can see how incompetence affects our wallets.
Brant Jones

Anonymous said...

Could we expect any less from the city manager and laize faire police chief. True cowards who run and hide. The only way for Durham to be held accountable is by a civil action. Fortunately, this report is so riddled with lies and fabrications that a good defense attorney will easily shred the city of Durham in Federal court.

Gary Packwood said...

Anonymous 9:34 said...
...I love the part about blaming the "toxic relationship between Nifong and the defense attorneys" as if this wasn't 100.00% one-sided because of Nifong.
::
If some DA was trying to lock me up and take away my freedom I would pray that my attorney did not think about RELATIONSHIPS but instead focused on the evidence.
But wait a minute, Reade already said that!
Anyway, show me the evidence.
::
GP

Anonymous said...

Malicious Prosecution, Obstruction of Justice, Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice, RICO, 923 18 U.S.C. § 371 (Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose.)

Jeez, a good, honest and fair prosecutor could nail almost anyone involved in the perpetration of this hoax. It was, after all, fraud.

Fraud is bad, remember?

Anyone willing to distance themselves at this point from the cesspool of fraudsters will be very well-served.

Anonymous said...

Now with the Mayor and others asking the AG to investigate, watch for people to run to the AG or the Feds to make a deal. Remember only the first rat to jump gets a good deal.

DPD knows that all their actions have been closely documented.

Gary Packwood said...

Mendacities

Here is the definition of mendacities from the Urban Dictionary

1. lying sack of shit
n. (metaphorical, yet, often simultaneously literal) one who habitually and effortlessly utters falsehoods in a most blatant and profane manner, all the while maintaining a lackadaisical appearance of ingenuousness; despite, or perhaps, due to the fact that their entire corporeal membrane is filled to bursting with an inexhaustible supply of foul, though nitrogen-rich fecal MENDACITIES waiting to be excreted into their victims' ears

I can't believe you'd give any credence to anything that lying sack of shit says!

(insert name of any living politician or other person who wants something from you here) is a lying sack of shit!

Reference:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/
define.php?term=lying+sack+of+shit

Sometimes the kids get it right.
::
GP

gs said...

Now that the AG was/is being ask to look at the DPD, Nifong's lawyer may have to reevaluated Nifong fighting the ethics charges.

If your were Nifong's lawyer would you let a case go forward knowing that DPD officers and DA employees as well as Nifong will be putting more sworn testimony on the record?

Anonymous said...

"Fortunately, this report is so riddled with lies and fabrications that a good defense attorney will easily shred the city of Durham in Federal court. "

Actually in that case it would be a good PLAINTIFF'S attorney. The defense attorney would be representing the City of Durham.

Anonymous said...

"O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!" - English poet Walter Scott

Anonymous said...

Yikes.

They interviewed the taxi driver yet were unable to verifiy Seligman's alibi. The bank, receipts and cell phone calls were all MADE PUBLIC by the defense but from what I get, since they weren't given directly to the DPD, the police were unable to substantiate the alibi? How ridiculous is that.

They also were unable to 'substantiate' Finnerty's alibi that he was at a restauarant. I wonder how the AG did it? He looked at receipts and talked to witnesses. I believe this used to be called 'detective work.'

This definitely met my expectation of unprofessionalism and incompetance, however it didn't occur to me that they would blame the defense team for their inability to verify alibis that were public knowledge. I had expected them to put more of the blame on Mike Nifong.

This report is so riddled with falsehoods and omissions its hard to believe any lawyer ever let DPD put this trash out in public. It is begging for a lawsuit from the three boys.

No information on the memory report.
No information on the collusion about withholding exculpatory DNA.
No information about arresting the alibi witness.

Jim said...

6:20AM: You got the definition of RICO wrong. In this case, you have several choices:

1) Report Is Completely Outrageous!

2) Really Incompetent City Officials!

3) Roy! Investigate! Correct! Overhaul!

Anonymous said...

JLS says...,,

What a lovely 24 hours in this mess:

1. the Baker/Chalmers report separated the intrests of Nifong and Durham.

2. the mayor and others on the council say, sorry but we are not signing on, you need an outside investigation.

One of the funnier aspects of this Baker part of the report is that he had so little to say he double spaced it like an undergraduate paper.

Michael said...

So we have the keystone cops that screwup the investigation and then screwup the coverup as well. I guess that's to be expected. The world is watching; the DPD is apparently aiming to win America's Funniest Home Video contest.

BTW, I haven't followed every post here this week. Did DK's wife ever post that paper on KC's comments on Levicy?

Anonymous said...

When will the lawsuits begin?

Anonymous said...

When did Mayor Bell get so smart? Didn't he watch this train wreck for 13 months and do nothing but stand by the AA community in their
sordid attempt to railroad three innocent white kids? This calls for a federal investigation so that no one can accuse the AG of playing politics. Another question: What is the average IQ of a citizen of Durham?

mac said...

11:23

DK's wife is probably preparing
Levicy's defense. That's one
reason they went 'a trolling
for disparaging comments.
That's evidenced by the fact
that every time a point is
made, they say:

"I didn't HEAR YOU!!!"

Then they ask the same question
again and again, or make the
same statement again and again:
"not gonna happen; in your dreams;
keeping dreaming" and so forth.

Remember they said the same thing
about Duke settling - on anything.
Now that Duke settled on the
grade-discrimination issue,
those voices are strangely silent.
Duke settled.

Don't hold your breath for Ms. DK's
response.

Anonymous said...

11:22:00 AM

"One of the funnier aspects of this Baker part of the report is that he had so little to say he double spaced it like an undergraduate paper."

I noticed the same thing. As I read the report I kept thinking of a school paper where the assignment is to write a 1000 word essay and you keep counting the words to see if you've reached the magic number. Chalmers even repeated DPD General Order 4077 twice in his part of the report. Let's see...998,999 yes!

I actually think that this is the way that the DPD conducts all their investigations and that they don't see wrongdoing at all.

Eric said...

If I remember correctly, at the meetings when the head of the DNA lab admits to colluding with Nifong, two police officers were present. The report apparently didn't touch this... Big surprise...

Anonymous said...

You can bet Bell's attorney(ies) made sure he wasn't within splash range of this turd bomb; calling for an independent inquiry by the office of the NCAG is perfect cover for him. I'd say Baker and Chalmers are being prepared for being thrown under the bus. Orange jump suit stock just went up!

Anonymous said...

If something like this were to happen in a city with a Republican-heavy population and a government/police department staffed by Republicans, you can bet the Democrats would be in full attack mode--and rightly so. Does anyone think the Republicans are even aware of this golden opportunity? I mean, it might even take some of the heat off Dubya, and give the NC GOP a boost as well. The party of stupidity comes through once again!!

mac said...

KC,

This isn't the line in this
thread, but to all those people
who say news organizations
(Murphy, Grace, Hurled Scum,
Feinstein, NY Times etc.)
can't be sued should look at
the recent ruling in Boston:

The AP reported the following
(5/8/07):

"The state's highest court upheld
a 2 million dollar verdict against
the Boston Herald won by a
Superior Court judge who said
that the newspaper libelously
depicted him as soft on crime
and insensitive to the suffering
of a 14 year old rape victim."

(posted on the First Amendment
Center blog)

Some of the principal characters
in the case against the boys -
including President Brodhead -
appeared to have made
defamatory statements against
the character and the innocence
of the boys. This includes certain
members of the 88 as well.

Lots of people have maligned the
boys - it's one thing to do it
UBUNTU fasion, where a blog
has limited reach; it's quite
another to libel them on national
television.

It seems that even the boys'
Attorneys have been accused of
negligence, failure to communicate
with law enforcement officials -
and those claims come from the
DPD/City Manager's reports.

Perhaps the list of people
- (all of them) - lengthy as
as it is, better read up
on the case in Boston,
pass a copy to their own
lawyer, and then take a deep
breath, prepared to be
submerged for a LONG,
LONG, LONG time.

Anonymous said...

JLS says...,

Does anyone think the Republicans are even aware of this golden opportunity?

You mean the opportunity to be called racists and unsympathetic to rape victims? You mean the opportunity to be accused of interfering in a local matter?

Sometime the best advice when your opponent is self-destructng is to get out of the way. So far they have stayed out of the way and it appears that the NC Dems are doing a fine job of helping the GOP out.

Anonymous said...

Shows courage from Mayor Bell and councilmen. Glad they are stepping up to the plate on this. Is Chalmers not retiring next month?

Anonymous said...

JLS ssys:

re: anon 12:21

Sorry, but one most certainly can say that someone indicted for a crime is guilty in your opinion. An indictment means probable cause. The judge in the case you cited was a judge, not indicted, ie not a defendant.

So no, no one in the media will be sued in this mess. The press has to be able to cover the criminal justice system without fear of being sued by one side or the other. Your "solution" might well have led to little blog coverage of the case of Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann for fear of being sued by Nifong and the three of them sitting in prison right now.

Michael said...

Here's another recent story on a libel case brought by a convict against a newspaper and several police departments.

Libel case in NH

The December 1999 article quoted the police in Hudson and in the Massachusetts towns of Needham, Weston and Foxboro, who said that Thomas was a suspect in more than 1,000 home burglaries and that his luck had run out after 25 years. The police described him as "cunning," a "career criminal," "very smooth" and "a tough character to hold on to."

The Telegraph had argued Thomas was libel-proof for two reasons: He already had such a lengthy criminal record that even false statements could not damage his reputation further, and any disputed statements in the article would not harm his reputation beyond the true statements in the same article.

The high court, which said it had never considered the issue before, said some plaintiffs could be found libel-proof for the first reason but only if they were already notorious because of widespread publicity about their crimes. In Thomas's case, there was no major reporting of his previous crimes, the court ruled.

"Criminal convictions alone are not enough to justify application of the doctrine," the court said.

Anonymous said...

Good for Dowd. I support the Dowd family effors, as I supported the Lax team and defendents. I do not support the Levicy Smear. Comparing apples and oranges does not help clarify this debate. Junk Science Debunkers has a good debate going on the Manly/Levicy issue. june is fast approaching and we will see if Nifong's lawyers use her as a defense.

Anonymous said...

JLS says....,

re: Michael

Well since truth is an absolute defense from libel/slander, did the MA guy the authorities called a career criminal win? It is 8 years later. He either won or this was a jailhouse lawyer keeping himself busy.

Anonymous said...

"Sometines when your opponents are self destructing - get out of the way." Great analysis. This is exactly what is happening to the Manly/Levicy accussations. When criticizing others, one needs to be sure that one's own house is above reproach. Name calling and lack of full disclosure has not helped those trying to torch Manly and Levicy.

Anonymous said...

12:04
You can bet if Durham were a majority white town run by oldtime Republicans instead of sleazy oldtime Democrats, there would have been a call for them to be run out of office.
Race riots like the 60's would have taken place if the three boys had been black. Everyone knows that.
Bill Bell is a career bum. He's not so stupid that he didn't know all year long these charges were false. Yet he and his fellow council members sat beside Nifong over at NCCU as if they were presiding over some big-time event.
Most of the people who run Durham are bums. Now they're upset that they've been exposed nationally.
Why KC props up Bell as a positive player is beyond me. He was forced into his current position. They all know the big civil suits are coming.

mac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I think we need to forget about the (DK) idoit. His presence here, aided and abetted by the invertebrate AMac, was a hoax.
He or she is someone on Levicy's team and is just sniffing around on the internet.
In the future, I hope some of you aren't so gullible as to give these trolls any credibility.
No honest person has a defense for what Levicy did.

mac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

One sham after another. There is no accountability in Durham. Chalmers is NOT AVIALABLE for comment, nor does he have to be apparently. Rogue prosecutor? How about ROGUE LAW ENFORCEMENT. How about, FORGET CIVIL RIGHTS, the DPD does as it pleases and with IMPUGNITY. Is this America, is this a country with a bill of rights? or is this some TV show where bad cops bust people for the entertainment value.
WHERE IS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT? WHERE IS THE US ATTORNEY GENERAL?

Anonymous said...

1:02 Well, take a look at Junk Science Debunkers and you will a different opinion than yours. hey -amac has done a terrific job through the entire year.

Anonymous said...

Just as "they peed off the porch" is a joke, so is "troll alert".

mac said...

1:07

Junk Science? The ones who
worked for RJ Reynolds
and the Tobacco Institute,
insisting that there was
"no evidence" that using
tobacco products cause cancer?

The ones who join Rosie in
claims as silly as hers:
she says the place was bombed,
that steel can't melt; the junk
science turdmeisters claim
that asbestos could have
prevented the tragedy.

You picked a bad group
to admire.

mac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

JLS - how come I don't read you at LS anymore. This is not a snide remark?

mac said...

1:02

I agree with you;
no more rising to the bait.
Ever notice how trolls can't spell,
use improper punctuation
and never resort to logic, facts
etc? No more rising to the bait.

Chinese Fortune Cookie Proverb:

"Resist arguing with an fool,
lest there be two fools arguing."

Anonymous said...

1:07 See thats the point - throwing up flame throwers without evidence does not work anymore. Where does Rosie come into this - not only am I not a fan, but I have never heard her voice,e

mac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Mac - Yeah - it is not an english class - just a discussion board with no pass/fail. When all else fails - attack the messanger.

mac said...

No, but it helps to make sense.

Michael said...

re: 12:41

SCONH sent the question of whether or not the individual claims of libel were true or not back to the lower court to decide.

He's in jail for receiving stolen property which sounds like they couldn't get him for the other crimes.

The point is that if you can't libel someone that was convicted and serving a prison sentence, how much more for someone that's completely innocent.

Cedarford said...

Wayne Fontes - Patrick Baker and the DPD have met or exceeded all of my expectations with this report.

Hah! Exactly!
However, Mayor Bell and some City Council rejecting the report and calling for independent query caused me to do a double-take. Maybe for cynical reasons (they fear a Federal investigation) they want Cooper to take a second bite at the apple.
At least it shows some in Durham have brainwave patterns.

*********************
Over at Liestoppers, I commented on the likelihood that by directly blaming defense counsel for this Fiasco, that Baker stupidly started a 2nd round of defense coming out guns blazing - with additional excuse that they have no choice because City of Durham officials have attacked their professional reputations.
At Liestoppers, I and a few others made lists of whole areas of police misconduct, ineptitude, suspicious conduct that the Chalmers-Baker reports don't even address. Others have similar observations.
The "Pick any 3 of the 46, you can't be wrong!!" photo lineup being rehabilitated as "merely a witness lineup that miraculously ended in "attacker IDs?"
Demolished.
Demolished by Party attendees not being in the lineup, no systemic effort by cops to have Lacrosse and non-Lacrosse at the Party ID witnesses or do photo lineups themselves, no effort to have Bissey ID witnesses he observed interacting with the dancers or followup with Bissey himself. And everyone asked of Crystal was supposedly ID'ing witnesses, why no mention of the 2nd dancer at the Party ID'ing witnesses??

Now KC says the cops never asked her to do the lineups that Crystal had - with the 7th try!!! apparantly the charm.
I have no doubt that if the whore had botched THAT 7th lineup by picking 1 of the 3 not at the Party, Gottlieb would have been working on a way for her to discard a bad pick and select the "right" rapist in Lineup #8.

*****************
Just as Wayne Fontes talks of DPD and Durham exceeding his expectations - I fully count on the black racists and Leftists at Duke and in the community to exceed mine by their continuing silence on police misconduct and ineptitude when it targets those "guilty of being white, male, and from the oppressor class"

I will savor the silence, as assholes in the Group of 88, NCCU that have written whole books on police misconduct and "corrupt Southern towns" say nothing. I will delight as "progressives" on campus or in the community run (or in Sam Hummel's case, bicycle away) from people waiving petitions for independent investigation of the DPD. Same people with their "Free Mumia" "Remember Diallo!" and "I believe Tookie was murdered on cop lies!" posters.

Joe T. said...

That's true, Cedarford. So many of these dirtbags have put themselves in no-win situations.

mac said...

Michael,

Good point.
And then there's the
suit against the Boston
Globe - tried and upheld -
by a Judge who was accused
of being "soft" on crime
and "insensitive" etc.

Guess it depends upon
jurisdictions.

That's why I would be careful
to avoid saying that Nurse
Tara is "guilty" of anything.
Same with anyone else in this
case. That's different
than suggesting that there
may be evidence against them
- (not neccessarily criminal) -
based upon commonly available
sources.

The boys were convicted in the
public's mind by commonly
available sources, until
evidence of prosecutorial/invetigatorial
misconduct was made apparent
(by KC and others.)

Freedom of expression could
exonerate those who expressed an
(early) opinion of guilt, but not
those who ACTED UPON the
presumption of guilt.

It's possible that those who
publicly continued to condemn
the accused (students) in spite
of clear evidence otherwise will
be made to eat their words.
Shark bait.

People who've testified that there
had been physical evidence of
rape may have problems of
numerous sorts - Wendy Murphy
continued to claim that the
Prosecutor had evidence, and she
still maintains that "something
happened."

People who gave misleading
testimony? Hmmm. I won't
speculate; I'm walking
over a bridge here.

Those folks who've dared
portray the attorneys for the
boys as incompetent, unwilling
to competently fulfill their
(supposed) responsibilities
to the law?

It's possible that the attorneys
may sue for their own aggrievment.
They've been (possibly) libelled
by government officials (in
the report, ect.) The document
that was released was NOT a
statement from a defense attorney,
like the one representing Nifong:
it was from public officials,
using their own buly-pulpit.
Had they stated those things
in a civil trial in their own
defense, it might not rise to
the same level.

Think they're (the attorneys)
are gonna let that slide?

Anonymous said...

JLS says...,

re: anon 1:28

JLS - how come I don't read you at LS anymore. This is not a snide remark?

Well I have posted over there a bit the last couple of days. What happened was:

1. I got distracted with writing finals, giving finals and assigning grades for a week or so. So I really did not post here there or anywhere for a bit.

2. I wrote a response to skeptical's post on the what went wrong with the SANE exam. I thought that post was pretty good but there was confusion between "wrong" and less than ideal. But I work from four different computers and screwed up my post trying to post it I was too busy to go back and reconstruct my post.

3. I have long been ambivalent about Liestoppers. After I first registered there, I did not post much there mainly because it has not seemed to me to be an objective site. Too many there seem too tied to "our boys" and not able to discuss this case objectively.

Anyway, that is a way too long explannation. As I said at the start of this explannation, I have posted over there in the last couple of days, so you will likely see me in the future there some.

mac said...

Live by the sword...
excuse my mispellings etc.
I must be from the land of
Durh.

"Durh!" Dee dee dee!

mac said...

JLS,

Umm. I just offered a
mea culpa. What did you
say you teach?
Can you give us an
"explannation?"

Is that the same thing as
an "Alien nation?"

George said...

The Chief of Police may be right that the defense lawyers never presented exculpatory evidence to the police dept. But then, the PD had early on abbrogated its responsibilities in the case,allowing the prosecutor to be the lead investigator. Why would defense lawyers approach the police? They had abbrogated authority in the case and the lead investigator, representing the PD, wasn't interested in evidence. By not defending its prerogatives, the DPD called a heap of trouble upon their brow.

WRT liability matters, aren't news sources and others commenting publicly on criminal matters supposed use words like "alleged" and "alledgely". I don't think that using the word once an article or once a program suffices. I would thing there is a bunch of people out and about who have some expose to libel liability

mac said...

George

Precisely why we should be
circumspect about declaring
Nurse Tara "guilty" of anything.

"Potentially responsible" has
a nice ring to it.

Anonymous said...

If the DPD were really searching for attendees of the party, as witnesses, why wasn't Kim Roberts shown the same line-up?

Anonymous said...

Was she shown ANY lineup?

Anonymous said...

JLS - Thanks for the courteous response - will be good to read you.

Anonymous said...

JLS says....,

re: cedarford

I have no doubt that if the whore had botched THAT 7th lineup by picking 1 of the 3 not at the Party, Gottlieb would have been working on a way for her to discard a bad pick and select the "right" rapist in Lineup #8.

Actually Mangum did pick one of the players they did not want her to pick. He was in Raleigh that night. It was her first pick of an attacker. Gottlieb ignored that identification and that person of course was not indicted.

It is transparent that Nifong wanted three any three to win the primary. But Durham could not just confess that in their report.

Anonymous said...

The AG's report reviewed Manly/Levicy finding and came to the conclusion that based on their exam, there was no evidence of rape.

Anonymous said...

3:06

The defense attorneys will surely have documented their attempts to provide the
DPD with evidence, but remember that the upper levels apparently ignored early reports that indicated that no crime was committed.

It was only after the examination by DUMC that the ball began to roll.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the members of DPD decided to testify against their witless bosses.

mac said...

3:15

That would tend to let DUMC et al off the hook, to some extent, eh?

Regardless of the SANE Nurse's
personal bent, it's possible that
the Investigators/Nifong

1) called her in repeatedly.

2) tried to shake her down,
as they did with Elmostada.

3) attempted to make something
of what she might have said,
or that they perceived that she
said.

Remember: these were determined
men, out to get their "boys."
If they were so bold as to
openly retaliate against a
witness, such as Elmostada,
what might they do against a woman
whom they could bully with impunity?

There's Levicy's defense, in a
nutshell. If it's true, it would
be better if she should have good notes,
or possibly - (take note Levicy-defenders) -
a good diary.

I'm not saying that this is true,
but it does leave an open defense
for the DUMC et al.

Anonymous said...

JLS says...,

re: anon 3:10

Thanks for the kind words.

re: mac

Sorry but I am not playing. I consider complaints about spelling a sign that someone lacks ideas to discuss. I consider this more conversational than "writing." So without spell checks and editors people will have mistakes in their posts.

mac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mac said...

JLS

While my posts are long
(guilty,) boring (nolo contendre,)
rambling (see?) and sometimes
poorly devised, I usually do
have something to say that
requires a little more thought
than "you wish" and other
nonsensical retorts.

When I've called someone a troll,
I understand that it's not always
a proper thing to do. Usually,
however, it follows something that
I've said that might be considered
intelligent discourse.

Or not.

I've read some (most) of your posts
in recent months; you usually have something
worthwhile to say.

Anonymous said...

happinessis allowing the durham police report to STATE FACTS that can be attacked in a civil and civil rights lawsuit, if such is done

the DPD assumes the players want to end this, and thus there will be no higher review of their actions

i assume these comments by the officials of the PDp are consistent with their sworn testimony before the NC state attornet general

i assume the BUMBRAIN administration will be forced to review this case under congressional pressure and urge those in NC to contact their local state and federal represenatives

the SPEED with which the FBI has been called upon to review the LOS ANGELES ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT RIOT shows that therte is UNEQUAL JUSTICE if your name sounds spanish...but if youre a white catholic with an irish or german name, you can go to hell..

the families of these players PAY HUGE personal income taxes apparently and one can see that THOSE who PAY NO TAXES in LA and MONEY LAUNDER funds back to mexico are above the law...

if this treatment of future DUKE students who are white is to stop, the BUCK must be brought onto the louts and MINORITY managers in DPD who put RACE ABOVE CITIZENSHIP

there is no WHITE AL SHARPTON OR JESSE JACKSON protecting the majority...and only for the actions of the ATTORNEY GENERAL of NC reversed the disgrace

i still believe that the civil rights of these players, the team, the coach, have all singularly and collectively as a group, have been allegedly violated...

i believe an injunction shpuld be demanded to stop the methods and processes on the PDD as they are federally unconstitutional

if anyone thinks that RACE hasnt been an issue they are as dumb as the Group of 88 and the duke university administration that is trying to use "let all work togther" mantra to shove all thois under the rug

Anonymous said...

The decent civilized people of Durham County better take things back soon. Right now it sounds lke a frightening corrupt third-world nation there.

Anonymous said...

So, it was a bad id procedure, but they knew it at the time and said NOTHING.

But, even though they were in the middle of a frame up, an open frame up as they now admit the identification process was flawed, the defense should have dumped all their theories. let's see....when the defense did that...Nifong and the police went out and fabricated reports and evidence.

this is just silly. take their deposition and take millions from them.

M. Simon said...

Current definition of probable cause:

"We have a snitch who will say anything to (keep her kids - stay out of jail)."

It is not just Durham.

Anonymous said...

Durham's residents are getting what they deserve for electing the dregs of society to their city's executive positions. I hope the lawsuits start rolling in shortly.

Anonymous said...

JLS says....

re: mac

Well the only thing I am not playing is games about spelling. If you really have an issue understanding what I have said due to a typo or a typo so bad as the rouge/rogue example where the wrong word is used, I will be happy to clear it up. I you just want to be a nag and correct everyone's spelling, well sorry, but I will hold out for your posts that contain actual content.

Anonymous said...

Humans have an enormous capacity to find the worst possible ways to behave and even though we attempt to inculcate good behavior and humanity in our children, they always disappoint us.

What we see in Durham and Duke is a group of people whose egregiously bad bahavior will be discussed endlessly for years to come and who will cause the more sensible of us to be on guard in the future for a recurrence.

However, I have faith in the ability of some humans to find ever more ways to act poorly.

mac said...

JLS

Have you bothered to
read my posts?
Other than the one(s)
where I responded (reacted)
to yours?

mac said...

JLS

I also wonder if you think
I was writing primarily
about your posts?
I was not.
For example:
WTF was 1:07 working on?
"Junk science" is a shill for
the pharmanazis, tobacco
criminals and oil creeps,
as well as chemical companies
and asbestos manufacturers.
I've read the junk.
What does his reference
have to do with any of these
issues?
(Plus he/she can't write straight.)

There have been some
brilliant posts, too: Bill Anderson,
Cedarford, Gary Packwood...
and lots of others. (I'm sort of
a junkie, I admit: I like to see
well-expressed opinions, even
when I don't agree with them.)

But hey - even dumbasses
have the right to post their
opinions. Not all opinions
are equal, nor as cleverly expressed.

Anonymous said...

JLS says...,

re: mac

I am sure I have read some of your posts. That is why I said that I would hold out for the ones with ideas, as opposed to playing games about my spelling.

mac said...

Agreed.

mac said...

I'm beginning to doubt the
involvement of Levicy,
and how important she
was to the case.

I'm repeating myself here,
but the question remains:
Was she a voluntary witness,
or was she shaken down?

If I were doing an outside
investigation, I'd be looking at
witness tampering as one of the
largest issues (as well as
evidence tampering.)

If I were Levicy, and if I
were intimidated into testifying,
I would be running to the boys'
attorneys and spilling my guts.

IF I were Levicy and that wasn't
the case, and I screwed up royally,
I'd ask CGM for work references.

Anonymous said...

Well Mac, it is about a debate going on about the Levicy matter - you know, like in the Duke Lax Case. I have not seen any of your references to oil, tobacco, etc. Did you go to the correct site - Debunkers???? Or maybe it is because they challange your views on this nurse.

mac said...

6:07

Pardon me, but I did not
go to the site. I assumed
it was a site administered
by one S.M.

Even if it is the same
"Thank You For Smoking"-type
site, I would be interested in
their view on the subject.

As far as S.M goes - if he's
the progenitor of the site -
he's not always wrong, either.
Especially with regard to
pesticides in the sub-Saharan
desert.

Same guy?

Can you post a link?

mac said...

6:07
Moreover, can you paste and/or
post their argument?
What's your interpretation
of their view?

I'm a little leery of visiting
such a website: it's easy to
track the visitor.

That would be a fine thing -
IF that were the case: invite
one to a site where one could
be exposed. Now why would anyone
do that? Ya think Lawyers might
pay for that?
Paranoid? Maybe. But it would also be a brilliant form of trolling! Brilliant!

mac said...

Couldn't Google up Junk Science
Debunkers/Manley/Levicy.

Post a link?

Legal Eagle said...

@ 11:20am Jim said... "6:20AM: You got the definition of RICO wrong."

I disagree, given how RICO applies specifically to the actions of the DPD/DA.

Further, RICO kicked in with the Baker report, wherein the actions of the DPD/DA were deemed "typical." This wasn't a suggestion, but a statement of fact, an admission.

We're now talking about an organized and typical effort on the part of the DPD/DA, and we have it in writing.

RICO standards have been met.

Without saying more, there's a matter of tactics and strategy.

scott said...

My take is that at various stages of the exposure of the hoax I call the Nifong Scandal case, Mayor Bell saw the perpetrators of said hoax as standing in an excrement covered field.

Stage 1 was where Meehan admitted to the conspiracy with Nifong about the DNA evidence -- excrement is knee deep. Stage 2 was where Nifong recused himself and asked for the AG to take over the case -- excrement is waist deep and rising fast. Stage 3 was where the AG declared the LAX 3 innocent -- excrement is neck deep. This report is Stage 4 -- hoax perpetrators are now under the excrement level in the field.

Mayor Bell was willing to watch the perps wallow in excrement for all these months, but now realizes that Stage 4 could expand the list of people standing in the field to include him. With a call for an outside investigation, he indicates his refusal to be suffocated along with the others.

Way to keep that stink off your shoes, Mr. Mayor.

wayne fontes said...

My understanding is that the fourth player identified as a rapist by CGM was Mat Wilson who attended the party. What made him undesirable was that he is local and his father is a Duke professor.

Anonymous said...

I think we need to forget about the (DK) idoit. His presence here, aided and abetted by the invertebrate AMac, was a hoax.
He or she is someone on Levicy's team and is just sniffing around on the internet.
In the future, I hope some of you aren't so gullible as to give these trolls any credibility.
No honest person has a defense for what Levicy did.

May 12, 2007 1:02:00 PM

Just hop on board for the big win Anon 1:02? If your going to go after Amac could you at least adopt a name so we know who to reply to. One more question Anon 1:02; if Amac represents a spineless poster who are the strong ones in your opinion.

bill anderson said...

IMCO;

The best investigative tool available in this case is for the DPD/DA/City-of-Durham to be charged under the RICO Act (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act).

Separately, RICO may also apply to Duke University/Gang of 88, given their collusion and collective actions to thwart due process, including the subsequent conduct of their underworld Don, a/k/a President Brodhead.

May 12, 2007 6:20:00 AM


I think that a RICO criminal case could be made against Durham and Nifong, but I cannot imagine RICO being applied to the G88. Yet, it is intriguing, since RICO would require a number of bad acts, when then would be bundled into either a civil case (or criminal) of "racketeering," which Candice E. Jackson and I called in a 2004 paper a "derivative crime."

Anonymous said...

You can also get to Debunkers via LT123 at the SANE (no certification) Nurse apology thread at Liestppers.

mac said...

Wayne Fontes,

I still can't find the site
that anon 6:07 was referring to.

1:02 might have been right about
DK'w wife - (whomever HE is.)

I guess I could say that I've
tried to be fair, and to give
Levicy the benefit-of-the-doubt:
it's not unthinkable that DPD
and Nifong rattled her.

Most of the people claiming that
she's not culpable have failed to
understand where Levicy's
vulnerable (with regard to the
Board of Health Professions
as well as other issues.)
Lots of "you wish," stuff, and
challenges for posters to show
more evidence, (beyond that which
KC himself has adequately
provided.)

Looking at it from her side,
it is POSSIBLE that she was coerced; looking at it from
the perspective of those who
pretend to know her innocence?
They haven't even done a
half-assed job of defending her!

With friends like these...

Anonymous said...

To date there are no complaints or discipline action against Nurse Levicy with the NC Board of Nursing. She still has a position with DUMC.

Anonymous said...

DK - have you abandoned us?

Legal Eagle said...

bill anderson said... "I think that a RICO criminal case could be made against Durham and Nifong, but I cannot imagine RICO being applied to the G88."

I agree, applying RICO to Duke/88 is tenuous, not necessarily as matter of law, but of perception.

Nonetheless, Duke represents an organized group of RICO-like actors, one of which has already settled.

The obvious difficulty, however, is in establishing a pattern of previous RICO-like behavior.

Meanwhile, Breach of Contract will serve to accused well, but not the community, the "people."

Thus, RICO looms as the ultimate remedy, in that Duke University has failed to clean up their RICO-like enterprise.

Anonymous said...

I do not have the computer skill to link this site. If you go to Liestoppers - pg,7 of Sane apology, LTC8k6 has a link. Its Debunker.org, etc. Don't think LS would leave it there, if a problem with the site.

wayne fontes said...

TO MAC

Amac offered to post the piece from DK's wife to make him put up or shut up. To go after him because DK hasn't responded shows he totally misread the exchange.

Why are you bothering to respond to the Debunkers post?

Who is SM?

Anonymous said...

I like to read different opinions than my own. I like information from different sources. It is more interesting than an echo chamber.

Anonymous said...

Y'all gotta check out one of the local Durham cartoonists' take on this. (He's with the N&O, NOT the Herald-Sun)

Hope the link is good for a while. It's too long for this column, so I'll split it and you'll have to paste it back together -- but it's worth it:

http://editorialcartoonists.com/
cartoon/display.cfm/35115/

Jamil hussein said...

I think RICO and Civil Rights Violation Act apply here. I know it is a stretch but maybe whitey males do have civil rights in this country? Perhaps we should consult well-known civil rights experts (say, Kim Curtis, David Duke, Lubiano W. or Al Sharpton)

jamil hussein said...

against Boston Herald won by a
Superior Court judge who said
that the newspaper libelously
depicted him as soft on crime
and insensitive to the suffering


You should be aware that there are different kind of laws. Boston Herals is a conservative media so any JimmyCarter appointed activist judge is more than happy to punish Herald any ways possible. However, New York Al-Times or Associated with Terrorist Press can expose illegal national war time secrets or publish fantastic lies about a bunch of whiteys or do whatever campainging for the democratic party they want and nobody can touch them.

jamil hussein said...

anybody has a picture or any background information about the Durham police chief? I vaguely remember he is about to retire (after working soo hard for the taxpayers) but what is his background? Is he a black democratic party hack or what?

William Jockusch said...

Exactly what exculpatory evidence was it that the police had trouble finding? The exculpatory evidence that was written up in Newsweek, was that hard for them to find? Or maybe the exculpatory evidence that was broadcast on 60 minutes? Or on Fox News? Or the exculpatory evidence that you get by googling "Reade Seligmann ATM photograph" -- was that difficult for the police to locate? Or perhaps they could have tried going to durhaminwonderland.blogspot.com, to see if they could find any exculpatory evidence there? Or maybe they didn't notice the exculpatory failure of the accuser to identify any suspects on her first six tries? Or maybe if they had checked the Wikipedia article on "Duke Rape", could that have led them to some exculpatory evidence? Or possibly they might have read their local News and Observer, to see if they could find any exculpatory evidence there? Or maybe they could have checked with Reade Seligmann's cell phone company, to see if they might have exculpatory evidence?

Exculpatory evidence must be awfully hard to find these days, especially when it is right out in the open.

Gary Packwood said...

William Jockusch 12:01 AM said...

...Exculpatory evidence must be awfully hard to find these days, especially when it is right out in the open.
::
Great comment. Made me laugh. Perfect way to start a new day.
I have given up telling anyone about this case.
Folks don't believe me.
::
GP

Anonymous said...

As a former state supreme court clerk, I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

mac said...
KC,

This isn't the line in this
thread, but to all those people
who say news organizations
(Murphy, Grace, Hurled Scum,
Feinstein, NY Times etc.)
can't be sued should look at
the recent ruling in Boston:

The AP reported the following
(5/8/07):

"The state's highest court upheld
a 2 million dollar verdict against
the Boston Herald won by a
Superior Court judge who said
that the newspaper libelously
depicted him as soft on crime
and insensitive to the suffering
of a 14 year old rape victim."


Notice that the cited case was about a libeled judge and the case was decided by judges. Now, if only we could have a panel of lacrosse players decide culpability in this case, then you might have a point and a similar result.

mac said...

Jamil Hussein and 2:13 am:

I know this is stretching the point,
but...Ron Goldman and
Denise Simpson's family
successfully sued, right?
Not that they've collected
a dime, but...

Sharpton, Alton Maddox and Mason
were successfully sued when
they libelled D.A. Pagones.
The settlement wasn't large -
$345,000. Sharpton has never
apologized. Maddox is still
stupid as ever. Brawley still
claims "something happened."
She was also sued, the
judgement was for $150,000,
and she still hasn't paid
("as of 2003") She now goes
by the name of Mayryam Muhammed
and supposedly lives in Virginia.
Source: Wikipedia

Now. Nancy Grace has a trail
so long, she looks like the AT;
Murphy persisted, even with the
conclusions arrived at by the SPs
and the AG. Others - the NY
Times employees, the "Hurled Scum"
(Herald Sun) - were so reckless
with the reputations of the
accused, even past the point
where a reasonable person might
understand that NO CRIME WAS
COMMITTED.

Your points are well-taken, however,
and I know that you fervently
hope you'll be proven wrong:
I do, too, but I can't say
much of anything with regard
to the predictability of our
system of justice,
except to say that, so far,
in this case, things appear
to be going as they should.

No losses yet.

Thanks to KC, Liestoppers,
Bill Anderson, Wendy McElroy...

Anonymous said...

Mac - Don't you know? These folk are not suing for "the money." "just want to be sure, it never happens again and bring attention to the incident."

mac said...

I hope it's for the money, too.

How much is a reputation worth?
How much is the fear of spending
30 years in prison for a non-existing
crime?

Besides: Goldman has made sure
that OJ won't be able to collect
on any publicity.
That's the golden template.

Anonymous said...

Anon
"O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!" - English poet Walter Scott"

Walter Scott, even though he was a Lowlander, was a Scot, not English.