Saturday, July 14, 2007

One in 1636

The Duke website states that 1636 undergraduate degrees were awarded for the class of 2007.

Of those 1,636 students, only one was:
  • one of the four students who served on the Campus Culture Initiative; and
  • one of around 20 students chosen to participate in the "Duke Conversation" events; and
  • one of around 25 students chosen for a Griffith University Service award.

What are the odds that the one student of 1636 talented Duke undergraduates also would have:
  • sent an e-mail the Presslers deemed so threatening they filed a police report; and
  • demanded in late March 2006 that the lacrosse team be prevented from practicing; and
  • presided over a fraternity that was suspended by its national organization for misconduct.
If your name is Chauncey Nartey, it would seem as if it doesn't matter if you send threatening e-mails. But at many universities, those last three items would have been enough to ensure that the student in question didn't receive even one of the three honors noted above.

But to the be the only student to receive all three honors after sending a harassming e-mail and seeing his frat suspended?

What does that say about what the administration thought of the other 1635 students who graduated in 2007?

150 comments:

Anonymous said...

Nartey is a communist!

Anonymous said...

Not much except that they are sheeple like the rest of the Dukies who are allowing this administration to continue to bring the university shame.

Anonymous said...

Professor,

Do you know what Nartley's plans are?

Anonymous said...

What it says is that Duke University is giving the middle finger to people like you who have questioned and criticized them every step of the way. That's the message. They are wrong - - but they're right. It's a defense of Brodhead and the Group of 88. Disgraceful!! Duke Grad

Anonymous said...

KC - anyone kow if this guy has a job?

Anonymous said...

Synoptic genius.

I love it!

KC has painted a most outrageous, yet artistic, rendering of still another Duke absurdity.

Steaming!

Debrah

Anonymous said...

This page gives some background on him:
http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2006/11/nartey.html.

He's treated with kid gloves because he has "privileged minority" status. He's the token poster boy for diversity group-think. He's also a non-US citizen.

Poster-boy du jour.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe how busy these threads have been. Was away for most of the day Friday and when I checked in late last night, the posts were so packed with comments, I just went through one and gave up. I can't socialize and cyber-dance at the same time!

LIS!

This Joseph Harris urchin is a pretty sad character. That's why students like Nartey can skate. There are no real standards with which to begin.

Too bad Harris is so nondescript. Not as much to work with on the comical front. From his photo, he's a very happy camper.....in a chipmunk grin sort of way.

His writing talents are brutally lacking. KC rips him to shreads.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

"demanded in late March 2006 that the lacrosse team be prevented from practicing; and
"


This doesn't belong on the same list as the other two, since every student has a right to voice an opinion about what should be done in a university crisis, and while we on this board think the opinion was not warranted, voicing unwarranted opninions seldom results in a university withholding honors, especially if the unwarranted opinion is shared by a large group of influential faculty.

Anonymous said...

Debrah

Have you seen the list of topics that was posted--presumably by someone in the writing program?

It is quite impressive. Besides his status as a G88 partisan, what is your problem with Harris's pedagogy?

Curious

Anonymous said...

TO Curious 2:00PM--

Just read the Harris response to KC. The guy is supposed to be a part of UWP?

He's far from a writer of any kind and KC makes him look so painfully lacking. Harris never even answers a question directly. Typical Gritty Gang of 88 modus operandi.

Look, one can be dumb in this world.....and one can be plain......but a libelous liar AND boring?

No deal.

Harris is a declasse rat who should never be allowed to darken the door of an elite university.

He doesn't have the goods.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Curosity killed the cat.

rod allison, detroit said...

"What does that say about what the administration thought of the other 1635 students who graduated in 2007?"

Is says that they're a bunch of cowards, and the whole purpose of the honors was to placate an element of the campus that can, and does, intimidate them.

Anonymous said...

In answer to Curious and in support of Debrah, I repost part of what I said yesterday under Harris in His Own Words:

"In terms of style, Dr. Harris seems never to have learned the elements of modern style: clear and concise. For example, "'You may want to note that' X is true" is wordy compared to "X is true." Dr. Harris so fancies his excess verbiage that he tries for parallelism with, "'You might also want to observe that' Y is true." This does indeed capture his original prolixity, but the failure to parallel tenses or verbs mars the effect.

Style is so personal that criticizing it is admittedly a bit snarky. Thus, let's move on to the tragic substance: most students at Duke find introductory composition to be the intellectual high point of their freshman year. No wonder they drink."

JeffM

Anonymous said...

TO Jeff--

GOL!
LOL!

How snarky of you. :>)

Debrah

No justice, no peace said...

2:14 Jeff M. this is even better the with the second read. Too damn rich!

"Style is so personal that criticizing it is admittedly a bit snarky. Thus, let's move on to the tragic substance: most students at Duke find introductory composition to be the intellectual high point of their freshman year. No wonder they drink."

AMac said...

Re: Nartey's plans --

From the November 2006 Duke News profile linked by Anon 1:34pm:

"Nartey’s personal focus in the fall of his senior year is 'getting those law school applications out.'

"'I am interested in immigration law, maybe because even after 17 years living here I only now have my green card and am working toward citizenship. Being from Africa, I get family pressure to go into medicine or law, maybe corporate law. You get siloed,' he says."

Anonymous said...

Another nice contrast would be to compare Nartey to Seligmann and Finnerty. Two of them made a mistake and attended an off-campus party with underage drinking and a stripper. They were suspended from school, their team's season was cancelled and their coach was fired. The other one made a couple of mistakes including a threatening email and presiding over a fraternity that was suspended for misconduct. That wasn't just belonged to a fraternity that was suspended, that was PRESIDED over a fraternity that was suspended for misconduct. His punishment was to receive three distinct awards from Duke University.

Considering where they rank on the diversity charts, that sounds about right.

Anonymous said...

Carolyn says:

KC, it wasn't just Nartey emailing threats to Pressler's daughter - it was Solomon Burnette's deadlier threat of a gun shoved in the faces of terrified Duke students. Yet - Duke welcomed both Nartey and Burnette with open arms.

Judging by these examples of Duke's concern for its students, the graduating 1635 are lucky they escaped with their lives!

AMac said...

11/14/06 Duke Chronicle article on the suspension of Duke's Alpha Phi Alpha chapter by the national organization.

Crypic rationalization on the undisclosed reasons for the 3-year suspension:

Senior Chauncey Nartey, former chapter president, said the relationship between the [Duke] chapter and national APA was tenuous because of a perception that Duke APAs consider themselves "better than everyone."

"Just being a black organization-which thinks of itself as the elite among black males-and then going to Duke, there's always that dynamic between us and the members of the national organization," Nartey said.

Anonymous said...

I'm gonna say this and I don't care who doesn't like it because it's the truth. Most of us are for diversity and fairness and opportunity, but the lowering of standards to this level and accepting some of the people who clearly do not have anything to offer academia into these universities will ultimately bring us all down.
Dumbing down this country is turning us into a third world snake pit just like where some of these do-nothings are from. We allow them to receive all for doing next to nothing. Beware.

AMac said...

A Google Search of "Chauncey Nartey" at duke.edu sites yields 25 hits. Most of them are gushing profiles.

Analogous searches of the eight Seniors who made the All-ACC Academic Men's Lacrosse Team reveal occasional mentions (no profiles):

Paul Andrews - no hits
Edward (Ed) Douglas - 7 hits (all Pratt Sch. of Eng.)
Adam Fassnacht - no hits
Frederick Krom - no hits
Anthony McDevitt - no hits
Nick O'Hara - 1 hit
Andrew (Drew) Thompson - 3 hits
Michael Ward - 1 possible hit

Too bad Nartey didn't play lacrosse--by this metric, he would have been a shoe-in.

Anonymous said...

Just when you thought it might be safe to come out....perhaps take a lover's stroll through Duke Gardens....Oh hi, Mary Duke Biddle Trent Semans! How's trix? How are your buddies Brodhead and Steele?

Lovely!

You thought everything was going quite ok.....lapsing into badinage.....but then you came upon the Allen Building.....Duke's locus classicus. At that moment you knew you had entered into a voyage unknown.....

()))))))))))) The Twilight Zone (((((((((((()


Imaginary_Voyage_with_Jean-Luc

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Duke is a mess. The PC culture has run amok and all rational thought seems to have deserted the place - at least in terms of around 88 members of their faculty and most of their administration.

At this point all you can do is shake your head and wonder if they have any idea how bizarre they look to reasonable people.

Gary Packwood said...

What does that say about what the administration thought of the other 1635 students who graduated in 2007?
::
It tells me that Chauncey Nartey was a bag man for the G88 and Duke decided many months ago that it is far far better to keep Chauncey inside the tent pissing out rather than outside the tent pissing in.

The defense attorneys need to interview Chauncey vigorously...until he talks or until Duke admits him to Law School.
::
GP

Anonymous said...

Chauncey Nartey gets an N-pass from Duke. Don't let your dirty race-baiting minds jump to conclusions. This is the Noblesse oblige pass that is given to lessers and inferiors. It is a fundamental acknowledgement of their incapacity to go it on their own.

Anonymous said...

Oh, man.

Wiki has an entire summary. Keep scrolling down the page. Can't believe they go into such a litany.

Wiki-on_the_Case

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Yet another ignorant flamer for hire:

She_Be_So_Mad!

Debrah

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Perhaps Chauncey Nartey can grow up to be legal counsel for the disgruntled, bothered, and bewildered women of Ubuntu.

They need a strong righteous brotha on the case.

Of course, after his green card is morphed into citizenship inside a country that he clearly feels is so racist.

Why would little Chauncey want to chance it?

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Chauncey Nartey admitted to Duke Law School--in Wonderland, it's all-too-possible.

I see similarities between Houston Baker and Nartey: the garnering of undeserved academic accolades, the arrogance (as revealed in his description of his fraternity vis-a-vis other black fraternities, the cover-up by the Duke administration of abusive behavior on the part of both, the public statements rushing to judgment to punish all lacrosse team members immediately.

What hath Duke wrought?

Chauncey Nartey and Houston Baker are household names for diversity run amok at the student and professorial levels in higher education.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

The American racial double standard strikes (yet) again. Odd how Americans put up with it.

Anonymous said...

@ Polanski

I usually do not bother with trolls, but I shall make an isolated exception in your case because you seem to have such an unbecoming crush on Dr. Harris.

(1) "Compared to" and "compared with" have different meanings. (See for example Ambrose Bierce's "Write It Right.") "Compare to" is to "affirm a similarity." "Compare with" involves "observing a difference." Because the two statements I quoted have precisely the same substantive meaning, affirming similarity in meaning is perfectly appropriate.

(2) Granted. I am not sure how Dr. Harris's flaws in writing are redeemed by mine, particularly given that I do not get paid to teach writing. You need to brush up on your logic.

(3)"Admittedly" is scarcely redundant. I do not know that there is universal acceptance of the proposition that criticism of style involves any degree of snarkiness. Thus, "admittedly" indicates that I will accept a non-universally accepted criticism. These subtle distinctions will come to you in time.

(4) Your view that substance is never tragic is merely stupid. Was the Holocaust tragic? Yes, no matter how perfectly wrought is the writing that discusses its substance.

(5) A "bit" is redundant only if snarkiness is an absolute term, such as unique. Something is or is not "unique." Since I do not accept that snarkiness is an absolute attribute, I find your comment jejune.

Good luck on your future career in rhetoric. I am sure if you work at it, you will get there one day.

JeffM

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Anonymous said...

re:anonymous said...
I'm gonna say this and I don't care who doesn't like it because it's the truth. Most of us are for diversity and fairness and opportunity...Jul 14, 2007 2:36:00 PM

You are starting to get the message but think further. There can be NO fairness and opportunity if the test on admissions is Diversity. When merit is trumped by diversity the standards of an institution are called into doubt. The worth of a degree ( from Duke for example ) is sullied for all graduates. Add to the unworthy diversity admissions the faculty and administration diversity hires compounds the problem as to the worth of a Duke degree.

Anonymous said...

These people can hide out in academia and sometimes in the govrnment but that's it. Once they enter a world that rewards merit and productivity, they become EEO groupies. Demand for accountability translates into an EEO complaint. "Need more training" is a mantra. In my organization, its simply understood that they're required bagage so they're distributed in a way that minimizes the impact of their presence. Always walking out of meeting shaking their heads "Were we trained on that?".

Frustrated said...

I’ve been reading this blog since shortly after KC created it. Although I continue to stop by to keep up to date with everything that is going on with the Duke administration, the Durham Police Department and the assorted cast of characters – both good and bad, I get more frustrated with each passing day.

One of the reasons for my frustration is the accepted feeling that there is nothing that anyone can do to bring about even a small degree of accountability for miscreants such as Broadhead, the 88 discredited professors, Harris and today’s topic, Chauncey Nartley.

Coach Pressler receives a threatening e-mail, files a police report and that’s that. No big deal. Nartley skates and so does everyone else. I’m not certain even Nifong will suffer in the long run once his well ensconced Durham cronies feel enough time has passed to rescue him. “Hoping” that the Feds will step in is nothing more than a pipe dream.

In addition to being well educated and articulate, many of you regular posters to this blog fully understand what goes on behind the scenes at Duke and other institutions of higher learning as well. You know the rules and how the game is played.

For that reason, some of you should be able to come with a plan that can be initiated and followed to bring pressure to bear on those who deserve it and to utilize the discontent that thousands of right minded citizens have about the LAX scandal to help carry out your plan.

KC’s book will help somewhat once it is published. Unfortunately, many who read his writings will already be a member of the choir which so far has done little but sing the blues about the injustice perpetrated upon the LAX kids.

Isn’t there some way that the power of the internet can be used to pressure the Duke BOT to “fix” their institutional problem?

Asking alum’s to send $0.88 is a cute idea but that’s about all it is. With the foundations pouring millions into Duke’s coffers, tiny “protests” are just that, “cute” and ineffective as well.

I would like to challenge those of you with the know how to take the lead and call upon your fellow bloggers to do whatever it takes to bring pressure where the pressure needs to be brought. I’m neither smart enough nor articulate enough to come up with any solution on my own which is precisely the reason I’m posting this message.

If there is anyone reading this who might have a concrete suggestion or plan to offer, I encourage you to do so?

Anonymous said...

Nartey is, in plain language, an ignorant and self-glorifying piece of sh*t.

I defy him to prove otherwise.

C'mon, Naaaaaartey. Give us your best shot. A-hole.

Anonymous said...
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inman said...

How about a protest on the main quad in front of ol' Washington Duke's statue complete with bullhorns and banners ... banners such as "87+1 = 88 \ Learn to add up the truth" or "Sex and the Serial Bipolar Race-baiting Criminal (and in small letters) The case for court ordered neutering." and my favorite:

"The Duke Lacrosse Burning"

Imagine 1,000 (+/-) adults congregated on the quad with an impecable right to be there since they are alums, carrying banners and flags and bullhorns and DEMANDING that the administration address their concerns.

Also, with signs that say "We are for and of your parents who want you to have the best"

_______

And of course, with a cocktail party with heavy hors devours following, at an appropriately nice facility complete with golf and tennis facilities, as well as a spa.

Followed by a catered dinner and entertainment such as "Crosby Still Nash & Young" or even my son's favorite "Trey Anastasio / Phish." (Side bar: Anastasio is a musical genius, for all who may not be familiar with his work.)

Anonymous said...

Debrah, thanks for the Jean Luc Ponty Zone tune. His electric violin is awesome.

frustrated said...

"The so-called Duke problem is national in scope, so the question is: Shouldn't Duke alumni CAPITALIZE on the temporary defeat of the diversity pimps? Yes, yes, yes."

My question is How can the Duke alumni do so in such a way that it will truly make a difference?

Maybe if would be worthwhile if someone or group would provide each and every incoming freshman with a copy of KC's book. It would be too much of a stretch to hope that there might be at least one tenured and courageous Duke prof who would designate his book as "required reading" - especially in a course every student needed to graduate.

Wouldn't that set off a furor among the 88 and their groupies.

Anonymous said...

The people on this blog should stick together and hold annual events for this cause. This blog should be just the beginning.
Every year hold a forum with big name panelists and talk about these things as the cable news channels cover every word. You have to fight this erosion of civilization.

Anonymous said...
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frustrated said...

Inman.

Way to go. You are definitely on the right track and may have started something. Once the big wheel starts turning, the 88 will either have to get out of the way or get run over.

Come to think of it, they need to be run over.

Again, Again and Again

Anonymous said...

I think KC should make this issue his mission....and of course all of us will provide glistening embroidery for the cause.

KC Johnson
Professor by day. Dogged, lusty fighter for justice when the need arrives.
Have Laptop, Will Travel.


Debrah

Anonymous said...

KC Johnson shows that one person can make a difference.

The key players in making real changes will have to be concerned alums. Brodhead has got to go, and so do those trustees who enabled him or looked the other way.

The undergrads are not the problem---they are capable of independent thought and dialogue---witness the statement of 1,000 ad in the Chronicle.

The problem is some entrenched, close-minded ideological administrators and faculty who have made Duke in their own image.

D White

No justice, no peace said...

Western Civilization is doomed unless the loons are removed from our education systems.

“total madness.”

"Britain’s cigar-chomping World War Two PM — famed for his two-finger victory salute — was removed from a list of figures secondary school children must learn about.

Instead they will be taught about “relevant” issues such as global warming and drug dangers...

...Churchill — voted the greatest ever Briton — goes off the required lessons list, along with Hitler, Gandhi, Stalin and Martin Luther King."

No justice, no peace said...

PickAx 411 said, inre; to Churhhill link above, "Never so few did so much to so many, by ensuring that history will be repeated."

No justice, no peace said...

Maybe as we work to reform academia, we remember the words of Churchill.

The Few”

“The gratitude of every home in our island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the world war by their prowess and by their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few. ”

—Tribute to the Royal Air Force, House of Commons, 20 August 1940.

No justice, no peace said...

Never Surrender”

“We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing-grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!”

—House of Commons, 4 June 1940, following the evacuation of British and French armies from Dunkirkas the German tide swept through France.

No justice, no peace said...

“Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat”

“I would say to the House, as I said to those who have joined this Government, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many long months of toil and struggle.

“You ask what is our policy. I will say, it is to wage war with all our might, with all the strength that God can give us, to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime.

“You ask what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs. Victory in spite of all terror. Victory however long and hard the road may be. For without victory there is no survival.”

—First speech as Prime Minister, House of Commons, 13 May 1940.

Anonymous said...

A glimpse into early Dicky circa 1994.

How droll.

Dicky_Does_Multiculturalism

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Perhaps we can get some constructive proposals?

Anonymous said...

#i serious proposal

mac should come out first and warm up the crowd with a few Levicy jokes

Anonymous said...

Jeff and Polanski,

You both should have been teaching my engineer son the craft of writing in the late 1990's when he took the freshman writing course at Duke.

I won't take the time to compare my experience in the rigorous freshman composition courses at Duke in the 1960's with his soft experience, except that he read and wrote an essay on black novelist Toni Morrison's "The Bluest Eyes" and I, and almost every other freshman in the early 1960's, read and wrote an essay on dead white man E.M. Forster's "A Passage to India."

I suggest to Professor Harris that "A Passage to India" would be a timely addition to freshman writing, as its plot revolves around an English woman accusing an Indian doctor of attempted rape. It touches on the clashes of cultures, of religions, of sexes, on imperialism, on themes that are as contemporary today as they were in the 1920's, when the novel was written. As an added bonus, Forster was a homosexual, so the novel can perhaps count as queer lit and thus more easily find its way into Duke's current writing program.

It's a bit more challenging than "The Bluest Eyes," but Duke students can handle it. They're smart, I'm told.

Alumna wandering in Wonderland

Anonymous said...

Sad. Just sad.

When Mr. Nartey gets out into the real world of practicing law (assuming he can pass the bar -- you get no extra points for being black when that exam is graded), he's going to find out that intelligence and hard work are what count. Too bad the "soft prejudice of low expectations" has led this guy to believe that he will be rewarded just for showing up (and being black).

I fear life has some hard lessons in store for this young man.

Anonymous said...
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an inman with an humble appreciation for our liberty said...

no justice, no peace....

You forget one of the great moments of the Revolution.

John Paul Jones, on the deck of the crippled but indomitable Bonhomme Richard,... when asked by the Captain of the British HMS Seraphis if he was willing to strike his colors stated: "I have not yet begun to fight."

The Colonials (later to be known as Americans) prevailed.

No justice, no peace said...

7:14 Inre: proposals

Personally, I've pre-purchased several copies of KC's book. I intend on giving them to...Duke alumni and friends with college aged children and/or prospective college applicants.

1. Buy book
2. Distribute to books to those who have no idea the extent of what has happened and why it has happened.

I will then encourage them to write letters asking that Brodhead be removed and that serious consideration be given to a reformation of the entire school strucuture, including the BOT. Dartmouth has made changes, so can Duke.

3. Remove Brodhead effort
4. Reformation of the Duke BOT

Then have the BOT hire a leader who will reform the school. This inculed allocation of funds and teaching contracts for the wasteland we know as AAAs and Women's Studies.

5. Hire a leader
6. Reform the BOT
7. Reform or defund AAAs and Women's Studies, and parts of the curricula. At a minimum there must be balance.

I'm not optimistic for a sea change, but the schools that do will be the ones that are the leading academy's in the future. At this point they may all end up in China and India.

It is worth noting that our donations have gone to zero, not 0.88 or any other sum. I'll encourage the same of my in-laws and extended family. Also, my daughter will not be going to Duke or even apply for that matter. Ironically with scores and ranking similar to my son who was wait-listed, she would likely get accepted.

At the end of the day, if Duke wants to win the race to the bottom so be it. I don't have time or energy to waste reforming from the outside and we'll send our other children elsewhere.

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Anonymous said...

Oh, I forgot. Loudmouth white pricks like you might not have gotten out of school without some extra help. So, excuse me, you might be right.

Anonymous said...

Chauncey deferred law school (I'm not sure where) and is currently teaching in Philadelphia through a Teach for America fellowship.

Anonymous said...
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inman said...

Regarding 7:47

It appears that the New Black Panthers have allocated one of their more eloquent members to patrol this blog.

Loud mouth is two words. For the record.

inman said...

Polanski...

Great minds think alike.

To all others, please excuse the self-aggrandizing and clearly egoistic comment.

It was solely intended for those who understood.

inman said...

Alternatively, loud-mouth is acceptable.

Anonymous said...

Polanski (7:27PM)--

Of course, each and every idea or piece of work should have to prove itself in the marketplace.

People like Dicky and the 88 try to use their Procrustean charms on everyone, hoping to force their zany views and ideas on the world.

This will never succeed. Too many creative and intelligent people will fight this madness.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

inman, screw yourself. you're trivia in the world of non-white people who dominate the planet.

Anonymous said...

Here's a guy I'm mad about.

It is disappointing to read his course of study because Wasow is quite simply a brilliant and most charming person.

He's one exception to the usual madness we all have experienced. He's got game....all over the place.

Omar_Wasow

Debrah

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

This should be posted in this blog, sorry for the superficial redundancy:

TO MY FELLOW AAS COHORTS --

You've read this drivel from the rich, privileged Yankee Duke alumni long enough. What are you going to do about it?

Are you going to sit back and take it like our Sister Survivor did?

Was it over when the Attorney General disbarred Mike Nifong?

You can't let K.C. Johnson hold a whole university department responsible for the behavior of a few sick, perverted faculty members.

For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole politically correct university?

And if the politically correct university is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our entire affirmative action-based educational system?

I put it to you fellow 88ers: Isn't this an indictment of our entire race-based non-meritocracy?

Well you can do what you want, but I'm not going to sit here and let them bad mouth the United States of Diversity!

Respectfully submitted,

Chancey Naterly
Duke, '07

(I have forgotten how to spell my name)

_______________

When Chuck Norris became fully bionic, he thought, "Finally, I can 'take' K.C. Johnson." Thinkings not your strong suit, Chuck! TO KILL A MARTIAL ARTIST, by Lee Harper (1950, Doubleday) MOO! Gregory

haskell said...

No Justice, No Peace ....

Re: proposals to bring pressure to bear on the Duke administration.

Good places to donate a copy of KC's Book (as well as the other 2 books) might include your local library, the college counseling office at your child's high school, and (evil grin) the admission offices of competing colleges. I plan to take a copy of all 3 books to the admission counselor at my son's school, and express my concerns about agenda-driven PC faculty.

After KC's book comes out in September, I hope there will be a round of book-promotion activities. If one is scheduled in your community, please attend, and urge the parents of classmates to attend as well.

I will also take time to review the Course Offerings of the colleges that we visit and will be sure to ask the tour guide/students for their opinion of the faculty. I will specifically mention the Duke faculty and administration as an example of schools to be avoided.

To those "good guy" faculty members, and there are a bunch of you, who may be reading this -- I hope you will speak out -- you have already been horribly embarrassed by the antics of your fellow faculty members and administration.

KC, I would like to see a daily blog recognizing the good guys and briefly summarizing their contributions to the case. An autographed copy of your book to these folks would be a nice gesture.

One Spook said...

Polanski @ 7:34 writes:

"And lawyers from rich, connected families always have an advantage in the partnership race."

Isn't that amazing! Law firms that represent poor families with no connections have no need for partners.

Feel free to wax philosophic about the wordsmith business, Polanski, but stay away from the legal profession, about which you obviously know nothing.

One Spook

Anonymous said...

Hey, Polanski--

Click under Wasow's photo "View Video" and listen to him.

He's a compelling character who means well. Just wish he wasn't into all those "programs" because he certainly could do anything he wanted in the business world.

Debrah

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Anonymous said...

Polanski--

Go stick your head up inside a dark place.....left to your imagination.

You have just made an enemy--AGAIN--for no reason.

Debrah

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Anonymous said...

I find this blog uplifting. It proves that a minority can accomplish amazing things even with overwhelming odds against them. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TRUTH was an inspiring book. I have just pre-ordered KC's book UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT.

Anonymous said...

Polanski--

He's also good-looking....charming...younger than you....a successful entrepeneur....has great hair, almost as long as mine.....is serious about doing something substantive regarding the educational system.....a great dresser with élan to spare....just an overall nice guy......

.....and he's hot!

Debrah

inman said...

re:anonymous @8:26

And I quote this quite educated person who hides behind anonymity: "inman, screw yourself. you're trivia in the world of non-white people who dominate the planet"

Thank you very, very much. You have just testified to the fact that I am, in fact, a minority derserving of the same affirmative actions of which most Blacks and Hispanics have been the beneficiary over the last 50 years.

You, on the other hand, are most surely an inconsiderate, illiterate, under-educated and ... well ... let's just say ... you will never belong to my clubs or any of my social affiliations.

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Anonymous said...

KC - Would love to go to a book signing - We will hire the MG< concert hall here in Las Vegas. Any chance of this happening or will you be in Israel when the book comes out?

One Spook said...

Polanski puts his foot deeper into his mouth by saying,

"Another point: Friends at top law firms report that the best position at top law firms is not partner. Why? Because partners burn out."

No 1.

Believe it or not, Of Counsel is the sweetest job at most top-tier law firms."

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! No, 2.

You're killing me and anyone else who is familiar with the practice of law.

This will be my last plea ... please stop; you have no clue what you're talking about regardless of where your Daddy worked 40 years ago or where you went to prep school.

One Spook

Anonymous said...

Polanski--

Please, you're just picking out any B-actor who might bear a fleeting resemblance.

Mario Van Peeples (?) Is that his name?....isn't even close.

Wasow is a unique character. He's a bit younger or I might check him out closer.

LOL!!!

Debrah

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frustrated said...

Thanks to everyone who proposed serious ideas of different ways to to focus the light of truth on what has been happening at Duke by the PC faculty and administration.

Providing parents with a "heads up" as to what is happening at Duke will make them think twice before allowing their children to go there. At the very least, it will let students who choose Duke know what they will be forced to "study" in order to acquire their degree.

I will also "donate" a copy of KC's book to my local library. It will be interesting to see whether or not the Librarians display it in the new book section or bury it on the shelves.

Thanks again for trying to do something to help.

Anonymous said...

KC -

Can you, or anyone, comment or speculate as to why this individual received the recognition?

Though his email epsiode disturbs me, and I doubt I'd enjoy having a beer with the guy - I am interested to understand if he has any redeeming qualities - rather than dimiss such possibility out of hand.

Thanks - TW

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Anonymous said...

@ 7:22

I have never taught writing, but have done a lot of it. Great writing requires an in-born talent, which God knows I do not have. But most people do not need to be great writers.

There are just two secrets to merely competent writing.

(1) Remember that your reader has no clue what you mean to say, you cannot use tone of voice, you cannot ask whether the reader is still with you, you cannot gesture, arch your eyebrows, smile etc. Spoken communication has many resources, but, when writing, the words on paper are all that the reader will ever see.

(2) Rewrite, not necessarily once but as many times as necessary. Early drafts will usually be a mess that does not express your thoughts precisely or even cogently. So fix up the mess before you put it in front of everybody. Not only will you be more persuasive, you will be more courteous.

That's it. Good luck to your son. I am sure he can learn to write as well as you will ever wish.

JeffM

Anonymous said...

Which was stupider--the Nartey email, or Houston Baker's public letter?

Nartey would seem to have a promising future at Dook.

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Anonymous said...

I thought someone said that "loud-mouth" was two words and chastised another person.
I see that one of his detractors has made the same mistake.

Anonymous said...

Good writing that is interesting to read is a gift and cannot be taught. A few people on this blog have talent.

Anonymous said...

10:22- Who?

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inman said...

If mouth is used as a noun, then it is two words, with 'loud' being an adjective modifying the noun 'mouth'..

on the other hand if 'loud-mouth' is an adjective modifying some other noun, then the hyphenated version is appropriate....like:

You are a loud-mouth asshole.

OK.

Game. Set. Match.

Unless, of course I am wrong, in which case, I am the loud-mouth asshole.

Anonymous said...

10:25-
If you are correct then tell your friend he was way wrong. He chastised someone he was arguing with for using it correctly.
Guess your friend needs some spelling lessons.

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Anonymous said...

I could go for a few jokes from mac right now.

Anonymous said...

10:52, then tell innie.

Anonymous said...

Duke’s lionization of Chauncey Nartey is intriguing. I assume that the fact that he is African has something to do with it but this is just my opinion and I’ve often wondered exactly who at Duke has been his mentor. I read that one of his majors was Political Science and I wonder if he has taken any classes with Paula McClain.

Nartey arrived in the US as a young child and he seems to be completely Americanized and I don’t think he would’ve achieved his recognition at Duke without significant help from high places. Everyone needs someone to advocate for them and to place their name into consideration for the honors that he received. Someone at Duke obviously loves Nartey.


Nartey did not graduate with honors so he did not distinguish himself academically but he did hold leadership positions and was active in DSG. I believe that Nartey’s active participation in the Duke lacrosse fiasco (which the Duke administration was well aware of) should have disqualified him from any consideration from the honors that he did eventually receive. His appointment to the CCI was especially troubling to me and I can only imagine what Pressler and his family must have felt when they learned that Nartey was a member of this committee.

Anonymous said...

When I put huge Rolling Stones stickers on all my friends' instruments in the wind section, then told them they were a bunch of hillbillies who played the largemouth bass, they kicked me out of the orchestra. True story.

Anonymous said...

The book The Shadow University follows at least one other school that had a major earned PC PR disaster and includes suggestions for reform.

The website links several other resources: shadowuniv.com.

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Anonymous said...

Actually, I thought that it should have been:

Loud·-mouthed
a.
Having a loud voice; talking or sounding noisily; noisily impudent or offensive.

Michael Sheehan

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Anonymous said...

TO 11:00PM--

I have only to use an ounce of hyperbole when comparing the leadership positions and lofty perches given to Nartey at Duke at a time when the lacrosse players were fighting for justice.....

.....when I say that on some level it is similar to old stories of KKK members being on juries when a black person was on trial.

It is incomprehensible that Chauncey Nartey would be allowed to hold the positions that he held on campus; however, it is defntitely a chapter out of Wonderland that he should even be considered for any type of award.

I have no doubt that people like John Hope Franklin and his campus cronies are responsible for propping up such an undeserving student.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Does anyone else see Holloway's hand in any of this? Pure speculation, of course, but consider this:

1. Holloway is one of the loudest-mouthed persons in the department.

2. Holloway has connections and considerable pull with Duke Administration, at least with Burness.

3. Holloway was appointed to the CCI.

4. Holloway was burnt by her actions with the Gang of 88 and subsequent indiscretions (e.g. e-mail to lax player's parent).

5. Holloway went out of her way to defame the lax boys by providing hearsay to Cash Michaels.

6. Holloway, as evidenced by 5 above, appears to like to cause pain to her enemies or those who threaten her.

7. Holloway would know that the best passive/aggresive way to cause pain would be to include Nartey on the committee AND nominate him for an award.

Just a theory. "Gentlemen, start your depositions!"

______________

"K.C. Johnson has tossed aside inventions, like the wall-mounted, talking largemouth bass, which have made at least a $1,000,000 for over 280 million different Americans." Ron Popeil: American Inventor, at p. 210 (Doubleday). MOO! Gregory

Anonymous said...

This insane diatribe from a woman who certainly should know what bawdy means from the actions of young men.

There is no rhyme or reason why someone like Holloway felt she was in any of position to pass judgment on the sons of other women.

Nasty and pathetic.

She_Gets_By_With_A_Little_Help_From_Her_Friend_Chafe

Debrah

Anonymous said...

The sword cuts both ways. I have been reading a lot of belly-aching about how Mr. Nartey has been showered with rewards and recognition despite his sending the threatening email. I have also seen lots of contrary-to-the-fact hypotheses about what WOULD have happened had Nartey been white and the coach's family had been black.

Mr. Nartey will always be suspect because of his color. Those hiring for the jobs Mr. Nartey will be seeking will look at his resume and see that he graduated from Duke. Mr. Nartey may well be talented enough to have been admitted to Duke based on his talent. But I am sure that most will presume that Mr. Nartey was able to attend and graduate from Duke because he is black. Should Nartey attend law school, people will presume the same thing: Mr. Nartey was able to go to law school because he was black.

Next, ask yourself the following question: were you shopping for a corporate attorney or a personal attorney and were offered Mr. Nartey or someone who looked like Colin Finnerty, who would you select?

I would interview both, but would enter into the conversation presuming that Mr. Finnerty was the superior attorney, mainly because he is white. I would worry that Mr. Nartey got to where he got because he is black. I would think that Mr. Finnerty go to where he got in spite of the fact that he is white and had to deal with the likes of Mr. Brodhead, et. al.

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No justice, no peace said...

Inre: loud mouth...when in doubt defer to the masters:

Andy Taylor: Goob, did anybody ever tell you you've got a big mouth?
Goober Pyle: Yeah, but I don't pay no attention to 'em.

Nancy Grace?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
What it says is that Duke University is giving the middle finger to people like you who have questioned and criticized them every step of the way.

That sounds like the beginnings of a great editorial cartoon -- Brodhead flipping off KC, but the middle finger is Chauncey Nartley.

Anonymous said...

Debrah: Holloway had a history of promoting the welfare of young African-American males -- quite a noble goal -- but it also happens to dovetail nicely into the "Hands of Holloway Theory" stated above.

I did not follow your link, but I am pretty sure I know where it leads. The remorse and guilt from something like that can lead a person to do strange things.

Of course, at a minimum, you would think someone with that history would know that sometimes "boys will be boys."

________

K.C. Johnson's DNA is so potent, the Israeli government has ordered all women to stay indoors during his stay for fear of airborne impregnation. Knesset Resolution 07-2122 (June 2007). MOO! Gregory

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Gary Packwood said...

Frustrated 5:45 said...

If there is anyone reading this who might have a concrete suggestion or plan to offer, I encourage you to do so?
::
I'm thinking that any plan will evolve week by week depending on what happens with future law suits; the actions of Duke; the number of Duke G88 that move on to their next victim; the specific actions of Duke alumni and the report coming out of the Durham police investigation.

Perhaps we should pay attention also to the release of the movie Indoctrination U!

Those who have been harmed need to move first with people like me working behind the scenes to help. Many of us are not directly connected to Duke and we have not been personally or professionally harmed.

I talk about the case regularly with people to need to know about the case and I am amazed how many people are keeping up with the week to week developments.
::
GP

inman said...

Polanski...

I am beginning to be concerned about your overt race-based comments. Although I am no proponent of a spoils system based on race, I also don't automatically assume the existence of a "spoils system" largesse being fundamental to an individual's character.

If you are suggesting that Nartey desrves special attention because of something other that the fact that he is Black and African, then so be it.

But I beseech you....the simple fact that he is African (white or black, one might add) is not deserving of your rebuke or calumny.

Now, if you circumscribe your rhetoric to qualities that are proper focus of evaluation, then I am with you 100%.

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Ralph Phelan said...

"Does anyone else see Holloway's hand in any of this? Pure speculation, of course...."

And does it (or any other part of her) have Nartey's DNA on it?

Pure speculation, of course....

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir or Madam:

On behalf of my clients, Mike Nifong, Mark Gottlieb, Brian Meehan, Benjamin Himan, Bob Ashley, Melanie Sill, David Saacks, Judge Stephens, Judge Titus, Duff Wilson, Ashley Cannon, Linwood Wilson, Lt. Ripberger, Cpt. Lamb, Kathy Rudy, Nancy Grace, John Stevenson, Woody Vann, Wendy Murphy, Dick Brodhead, et al., we would DEMAND that you CEASE and DESIST from detracting from our fine contributions to what you have called the "Hoax" or "Frame Job."

If you do not CEASE and DESIST at once, we will send one of our evil white lawyers to serve you with lawsuit papers.

Sincerely,


John "The Cadaver" Bourlan

_______________

There is a YouTube video floating around showing Al Gore caught in the act of spying on K.C. Johnson while K.C. was fiddling with this new "internet" thingy. www.youtube.algorethenextprez.com MOO! Gregory

Anonymous said...

Damn, didn't Levicy hire Bourlan too! She needs legal assistance in a bad way. Just ask mac.

Anonymous said...

AusGirl asks...

Okay, I'm starting to wonder about this Affirmative Action thing in the States. If anyone were to ask me my background, I'd say "Australian". That's what I am, here.

But my maternal line includes Chinese (from the pearling days in the late 1800's) and Aboriginal (from the many relationships that flourished between the pearlers and the original population); my paternal line includes Native American (Ojibwe). Of course, there's also English, Irish and Scandanavian thrown in, but I guess those don't "count". And, by American standards, I'm a "foreigner".

So if I sent in identical applications to, say, Duke; one just listing myself as "Australian", and one identifying myself as a (1) Chinese- (2) Aboriginal- (3) Native American- (4) Woman (ignoring those inconvenient Anglo-Saxon relatives); would the "I Be A Minority" card get me more consideration? Would the "Angry Studies" folk embrace me?

(I did actually attend a US school for my Master's, the University of Chicago, but I didn't realise back then that what race/colour my ancestors were had anything to do with my educational endeavours, so I was just a simple "Australian" back then (in the 80's). I was more "disciminated against" for my propensity to spell funny than for my racial makeup, but maybe that was because I didn't realise I should be looking out for it, but if Duke lets me in I'll work on it...)

Honestly! I would feel SO DEMEANED to have people believe that because of the "minorities" in my background, and/or the fact that I'm female, I somehow need "special help", "special consideration". Heck, if I don't have the brains to become a rocket scientist, then I shouldn't expect to become a rocket scientist, just as if I'm not 7 feet tall and am a klutz, then I shouldn't expect to become a star basketballer.

I'm sorry to go on and on, but it floors me that it looks like some top-class schools in "the land of the free and the home of the brave", bastion of democracy and "any one can pull themselves up by their bootstraps" equality seem to believe that some animals are less equal than others and must be given "help" because they aren't capable otherwise of meeting the high standards of the other animals.

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mac said...

Someone asked what could be done at Duke to reform the school.
I would propose, in the fine history of satire at Duke - (as practiced
by Duke fans at sporting events) -
that students lampoon their own professors - (meaning the 88 and Brodhead) -
on national TV.

I especially liked the Seior Vittles
parody, as well as "Penis Pity."

That, and start a humor mag, like National Lampoon, which originated at Harvard:
The characters in this case should provide enough
fodder for at least 2 years.

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No justice, no peace said...

3:05 You are clearly in the lottery pool. Did you grow up poor and/or oppressed? Are you gay?

If so you have untold advantage as long as you tow the party line. That is of course until you compete with a poor, black, gay, woman, then you will fare quite badly.

What you know, your work ethic, and your morals have little meaning until you get a real job. My experience with Aussies is that they do quite well on their own.

What does an Austrailian call a tall poppy that is not accomplished?

rod allison, detroit said...

AusGirl,

In the US you'll see this demeaning lower expectations for minorities, particularly blacks, everywhere.

Listen to how white liberals talk about blacks. They talk as if blacks have no will of their own and no control over their own destiny. To them, blacks need to be managed and cared for by the state, at the direction of the white liberal.

Read an article by a white liberal, and its like the outdoors writer talking about his state's wildlife. As if they need funding, management and control like the deer herd or walleye population, because they can't be expected to act responsibly or take care of themselves.

Anonymous said...

TO Gregory--

Your 12:00AM is stellar!

Especially the last paragraph.

LOL!!!

Debrah

mac said...

I am reminded of the E.R. (I think
comment, where one doc asks this
question:

"What do you call the person who graduates last in his class in medical school?"

Answer: "Doctor."

I was once honored to be invited to a luncheon
with the BoT at the college I attended, something about being a
"student leader" - (still don't know what they were talking about.)

I lost my admiration for such awards/invitations after that...

mac said...

Debrah 11:27

Gregory's been reading too much Doc Savage,
and he's got KC confused with the ol' protean genious.

Brilliant stuff!

Anonymous said...

Nartey is not a racist simply because he sent an email to Pressler. The email itself had no racist content, it simply asked Pressler what would he do if his daughter, not the daughter of Mr. Manguam, had been the victim of a rape. How would he feel? Pressler obviously felt upset as would any father.

For those of you on here criticising Nartey about his local frat being suspended, that is because his frat Alpha phi Alpha, has high moral standards unlike the LAX team, and they routinely suspend members or chapters who do things like underage drinking, etc. Please contrast the behavior of the young men at the ApA hosted party earlier this year where there was a rape of a young white Duke student by someone not in the frat. The frat brothers helped police find the suspect, provided a name and everything as the girl could not really describe him. The frat brothers even told the police where he practiced basketball, etc so he could be picked up and taken off the streets. Contrast that to the lack of cooperation of the lax team( only 3 out of 30+ spoke to police and the 3 lied about Reade even being at the party) and how they fled the scene that night it. There is no comparison as to which group acted more honorably. Like all men of APA, Nartey is againist rape and abuse of women and that is why he spoke out to Pressler, who at the time had the team continue practicing as if nothing had happened. Nartey deserved the Griffith award IMO and a lot of other people here at Duke agree with me.

mac said...

7am

You've got a deficient hippocampus, apparently:
you keep manufacturing facts,
like the "lack of cooperation"
and the Lax players characters etc.

Racist.

mac said...

Nartey is a racist, too.

mac said...

Hey, Chauncey,
How does it feel to have to write in your own defense?

AMac said...

Anon 7/16/07 7:00am --

You have written the best defense of Chauncey Nartey's conduct that I have read. I hope you strengthen it in a few places, perhaps with a follow-on Clarifying Statement.

Here's what I am wondering.


1). Nartey's email to Pressler doesn't make him a racist. Agreed--but can you provide a link to that charge? (I hadn't heard of it.) Nartey's email was interpreted by Pressler as a threat, understandably so given its content and context. That hotheaded Nartey would send such a message speaks to his character. That Nartey took two months to write Pressler an apology--on the instruction of Duke administrators--is further testimony.

Here is Nartey taking responsibility for his deeds: "I sent [the two emails] from my Duke email address. I sent them with my name attached. It wasn't like any anonymous thing. I knew I was going to be attached to it, so it wasn't any sort of threat." Further, it was "a mistake" to bring Pressler's daughter into the mix "just because I didn't think it would be so heavily misconstrued... it was a stupid thing to mention his daughter, in retrospect, but at the time I thought if somebody can't see why it's inappropriate to move forward with athletics in this sort of situation then perhaps that parallel could be drawn by incorporating someone near and dear to him. And again, foolish, but that the rationale was that was that you can draw the parallel."

Shorter Nartey: "Stupid Pressler."


2) The suspension of Duke's Alpha Phi Alpha chapter, of which Nartey was President. You write that Duke's APA chapter was suspended for three years because "Alpha phi Alpha has high moral standards unlike the LAX team, and they routinely suspend members or chapters who do things like underage drinking, etc." This is a commendable defense of the national organization. However: could you now explain how this reflects well on the Duke Chapter's President? I'm fuzzy on that detail. By the way, what were the reasons for this action? Why haven't they been made public?

As far as the rape of the Duke first-year student at 3am at a wild off-campus party: you are defending the wrong fraternity. Members of Phi Beta Sigma, not APA, were reported as being involved. Your faint praise of those students thus appears to be misplaced.


3) "Contrast that (sic) to the lack of cooperation of the lax team( only 3 out of 30+ spoke to police and the 3 lied about Reade even being at the party) and how they fled the scene that night it.(sic)" Your two assertions are contradicted by the record. Can you offer links to support them?


4) "There is no comparison as to which group acted more honorably." Agreed. No comparison will be possible until we learn why national APA suspended Nartey's chapter. I join you in urging Nartey and other Duke APA members to break the "wall of silence" and share the reasons that the parent organization took such drastic action.


5) "Nartey deserved the Griffith award IMO and a lot of other people here at Duke agree with me." You convincingly show that you think Nartey deserved the Griffith award. Sadly, I also believe your assertion that a lot of other folks at Duke still feel the same way.

Can you offer any reasons as to why you and others hold to that opinion?


Anon 7:00am, thanks for writing. Your comment was very illuminating.

inman said...

amac

"Here is Nartey taking responsibility for his deeds: "I sent [the two emails] from my Duke email address. I sent them with my name attached. It wasn't like any anonymous thing. I knew I was going to be attached to it, so it wasn't any sort of threat." Further, it was "a mistake" to bring Pressler's daughter into the mix "just because I didn't think it would be so heavily misconstrued... it was a stupid thing to mention his daughter, in retrospect, but at the time I thought if somebody can't see why it's inappropriate to move forward with athletics in this sort of situation then perhaps that parallel could be drawn by incorporating someone near and dear to him. And again, foolish, but that the rationale was that was that you can draw the parallel."

What is truly spine chilling is the fact the Nartey even KNEW Pressler's daughter's name. Also, Nartey is extraordinarily presumptuous to assume that Pressler would know who had written the e-mail.

If I ever got an e-mail from someone that I did not know, referring to my daughter, I'd demand the police investigate. Simply the research required to obtain that information is indicative of some mal intent -- perhaps pedophilia.

mac said...

Inman 10:48

Does Nartey's native country practice cannibalism? (Not that I'm implying the boy's a cannibal.)

Lest you think I'm joking, Idi Amin allegedly ate his enemies,
and there's some evidence that the practice is still going on in some civil wars.

Nartey's got a green card?
Still?
Hmmm...

McLiam said...

If Nartey were a white South African who threatened a black coach not only would he be suspended from school, he would be deported.

One could argue things about the legacy of Jim Crow and Slavery -- but how do you explain why a non-American should benefit from such historical treatment?

It simply makes no sense. Affirmative Action, as it is deployed, can only succeed with people being ignorant about history.

inman with great respect for indigenous peoples said...

Mac @ 1:34

I don't know about Nartey...but the Masai were fierce, noble and ethical warriors.

The scene in the movie "Out of Africa" in which a group of the Masai run past with no change of tempo, with no change of demeanor and with the coiled-spring look of a lion or a cobra attests to that people's character.

PS. Look up "indigenous people's on wikipedia"...it's a fascinating concept...Powhatan...Geronimo ... Sitting Bull ... Tutankhamen...Attilla ... Ethelred ... one pale's in the historical significance ... and just as we have struggled to understand a single phrase of U's...we continue to struggle with an understanding of these men/women*** (and of course many others)

KC....is that what history is about?


***PC required that

mac said...

Inman 10:53
Yup. And the Carthaginians were
fierce warriors, too.

However, some of the nomadic-types in Africa still drink the blood of animals (while they're still alive)
and they'll take off a leg of an
animal (and eat it) while the animal is still alive.

How noble.