tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post4543599749169285058..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: The Path Not Takenkcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger175125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-59389834464952623742007-09-14T14:47:00.000-04:002007-09-14T14:47:00.000-04:00You have been at me since you came to DIW.Prove it...<I>You have been at me since you came to DIW.</I><BR/><BR/>Prove it.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-53510148641533248672007-09-14T14:31:00.000-04:002007-09-14T14:31:00.000-04:00To Horwitz--I have just responded to your posts, b...To Horwitz--<BR/><BR/>I have just responded to your posts, but KC will not let you see them.<BR/><BR/>You have been at me since you came to DIW.<BR/><BR/>At first, you got so very little attention with your posts that coming after me was always your strategy.<BR/><BR/>Many here have not read this blog long enough to know your tactics.<BR/><BR/>You post dishonestly and attack, then come back here later and try to dress yourself up.<BR/><BR/>You won't use me for that purpose.<BR/><BR/>If KC doesn't let you see my responses, it's not my fault.<BR/><BR/>Do yourself a favor. Understand that people come here to read KC.<BR/><BR/>You, like many 88 apologists, don't have the street cred needed.Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86590831998736188702007-09-14T14:28:00.000-04:002007-09-14T14:28:00.000-04:00"3. Faculty who violate faculty handbooks should f...<I>"3. Faculty who violate faculty handbooks should face consequences for doing so, especially when said violations involve their treatment of students."<BR/><BR/>But when that doesn't happen, how how do we make it happen? <BR/><BR/>When a university shows a major and consistent pattern of not enforcing rules and allowing (or actively rewarding) faculty mistreatment of students what should the rest of the industry do?</I><BR/><BR/>The root of the problem is that there are too many folks who don't think that the things you think (or I think) might qualify as problems are in fact problems, or serious ones. All contracts, rules, handbooks etc are open to interpretation by those who enforce them. If university administrators don't see particular incidents as rising to the level of what the handbook dictates, nothing will happen. <BR/><BR/>How do you get better people in place? Again, you encourage different kinds of people to go into academia. You try to get new voices on Boards (see Dartmouth, though the backlash there has begun). Universities are only as good as the people who work there and run them. But I've talked about all of this before.<BR/><BR/>I'm all in favor of all kinds of "watchdog" groups that would rate universities along all sorts of measures. I have no patience for complaints by my colleagues about groups like CampusWatch. People outside academia should feel free to watch what we do and publicly comment on it, whatever their own views. The key is to keep it as separate as possible from gov't regulation, because that will cause even sympathetic faculty to rally to the cause of those being criticized, all in the name of academic freedom.<BR/><BR/>Like FIRE does with speech codes, why not a public organization who monitors how faculty treat students or the like? The AAUP sanctions administrations that treat faculty poorly, why not something like that?<BR/><BR/>As for the intellectual diversity issues....<BR/><BR/>1. I think state schools should be held to the same non-discrimination laws as any other government employer. Private schools can do whatever they'd like, either discriminate against or for particular groups. Do I favor current diversity policies? Depends. I favor traditional affirmative action - taking extra steps to ensure that the pool of candidates for a job is as inclusive as possible and for making sure that the hiring process is as race/gender neutral as possible. I do not favor creating certain positions as "designated" either overtly or covertly for particular groups. It may well be that certain areas tend to attract more or fewer minorities, but so be it.<BR/><BR/>2. On intellectual diversity... monitor what universities do. Shine spotlights (like KC) and scream it from the hills. Keep the *informal* pressure on and keep the conversation in terms of the educational benefits of intellectual diversity, rather than pushing for policies or quotas or etc. Shame academia (if that's even possible...) into opening up.<BR/><BR/>And if you're gonna pull tax dollars from bad teaching, you're gonna have a LONG list of people and institutions to start budget cutting. :) <BR/><BR/>As I've said before, as a libertarian, I'd like to see much less government funding and involvement in higher ed as I think it would help with a number of these problems. Given government financing, however, I think more government meddling causes more problems than it solves.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-80742923711737750252007-09-14T14:18:00.000-04:002007-09-14T14:18:00.000-04:00Update to the Chemerinsky sub-thread, which began ...Update to the Chemerinsky sub-thread, which began yesterday with an unsupported accusation that "the right" fires people it disagrees with (09/13 9:37 a.m.):<BR/><BR/>The "right" continues to speak out AGAINST UCI's rescindment of its dean-of-the-new-law-school offer to Chemerinsky. Latest is powerlineblog.com, a trio of Dartmouth attorneys on anyone's short list of the most-read and influential blogs on the right. They, too, while disagreeing with him on fundamental issues, deplore what's been done to Chemerinsky.<BR/><BR/>It is not the right that demands firings and dismissals of people it disagrees with, but the Houston Baker and G88 types.<BR/><BR/>Now, should we say that Duke University is the UCIrvine of the east, or is UCIrvine the Duke of the west? Maybe Coach Pressler and Professor Chemerinsky can compare notes.<BR/><BR/>(The Chemerinsky sub-thread starts at 09/13 9:37 a.m. 09/13 5:52p.m. compiles the respondent posts; see also, 2:39p.m., 7:55 p.m., and 09/14 1:30 p.m.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-33664676143463698422007-09-14T14:00:00.000-04:002007-09-14T14:00:00.000-04:00And, Debrah, one more thing:I'm still waiting for ...And, Debrah, one more thing:<BR/><BR/>I'm still waiting for an apology for your falsely accusing me of anonymously flaming you. You grudgingly acknowledged publicly that it wasn't me, but never found a way to say you were sorry to me for the false accusation. <BR/><BR/>I guess some false accusations demand apologies and others don't, eh?<BR/><BR/>Until you let rip just now, I was willing to let that go, but not anymore.<BR/><BR/>By their deeds (or lack thereof), they shall be judged.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-54976861637333975332007-09-14T13:56:00.000-04:002007-09-14T13:56:00.000-04:00Steven Horwitz said:"3. Faculty who violate facult...Steven Horwitz said:<BR/><BR/>"3. Faculty who violate faculty handbooks should face consequences for doing so, especially when said violations involve their treatment of students."<BR/><BR/>But when that doesn't happen, how how do we make it happen? I'm looking for specific fixes and improvements to the current system of checks and balances in academia, whose performance I am not satisfied with.<BR/><BR/>When a university shows a major and consistent pattern of not enforcing rules and allowing (or actively rewarding) faculty mistreatment of students what should the rest of the industry do?<BR/><BR/>(1) Terminate some or all reciprocal and cooperative agreements with them?<BR/><BR/>(2) Make public statments that "That institution is not performing up to normal standards the way we do."?<BR/><BR/>(3) Keep silent, ignore the problem, and hope it goes away?<BR/><BR/>"6. I am vehemently opposed to treating political views as another "diversity" category. I would like to see more explicit recognition of the value to students' critical thinking skills and their broader education of being exposed to a variety of views, and not just a variety of left-wing views. I'd like to see this happen with more faculty being willing to have students read the *best work of people the faculty disagree with* rather than critiques of said work. Notice that if we pay more attention to teaching in training and reward processes, it becomes easier to make this argument because one-sided teaching is bad teaching, and students know it."<BR/><BR/>What policy or structural changes would you like to see made to encourage such a change?<BR/><BR/>Where should they be made - individual universities? AAUP policies? Government funding priorities - if "one-sided teaching is bad teaching" why should bad teaching be a beneficiary of taxpayer money?<BR/><BR/>Are you opposed to the already existing "diversity" mandates?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-57035099261073466092007-09-14T13:55:00.000-04:002007-09-14T13:55:00.000-04:00Debrah,I have never attacked you personally in the...Debrah,<BR/><BR/>I have never attacked you personally in the ways that you have me. I called an argument of yours disgusting, but have never, to the best of my memory, said a word about you as a person.<BR/><BR/>"ratty, cowardly, condescending, victimized, weak"<BR/><BR/>Show me anything I've ever said about you as a person (not your arguments) that even is remotely like this. And if I did, it was only once and not with the repeated bile you spew my way. I'll leave it up to the readers here to decide which one of us has treated the other with more respect and maturity.<BR/><BR/>What is it about me (and others around here) that drives you to attack us in such personal and nasty ways? <BR/><BR/>Since the whole "disgusting" blow up, I have very deliberately avoided replying to your comments or addressing you directly in any way. I thought discretion was the better part of valor. What is the source of <B>your</B> obsession with me? And what makes you think you know anything about me as a real flesh and blood human being such that insulting me in those ways is even remotely reasonable behavior?<BR/><BR/>As I said to rrh, I've been called much worse than you have called me by much much better than you, so if you think this is the whine of a victim, think again. It's the curiosity of one who simply cannot understand the inappropriate behavior of another.<BR/><BR/>For those who are appreciative of my contributions around here, perhaps a direct response to Debrah is in order, as she appears to think she speaks for the whole commentariat with astounding frequency.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-81649014707371089732007-09-14T13:40:00.000-04:002007-09-14T13:40:00.000-04:00Correction on my Ricky Ricardo impersonation @1:30...Correction on my Ricky Ricardo impersonation @1:30PM--<BR/><BR/>"Life is too short for such predictable obfuscation."Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-38735572670799470392007-09-14T13:38:00.000-04:002007-09-14T13:38:00.000-04:00The feverish anonymous (Duke 76) poster has been w...The feverish anonymous (Duke 76) poster has been working way too hard. Some rest from their obsession might be helpful.<BR/><BR/>KC must have rained on his/her parade......bigtime!<BR/><BR/>It is enormously amusing to see how this person is bouncing off the walls trying to slam KC.<BR/><BR/>Wonder how many hours in the day he/she has been stalking the bookstores.<BR/><BR/>LOL!!!<BR/>LOL!!!Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-73594660512566653152007-09-14T13:30:00.000-04:002007-09-14T13:30:00.000-04:00TO 8:59AM--Oh, do yourself a favor and drop the dr...TO 8:59AM--<BR/><BR/>Oh, do yourself a favor and drop the drama queen role.<BR/><BR/>You're not good at it. <BR/><BR/>Besides, you have a history of rising up for the 88 when things get too <I>real</I>.<BR/><BR/>You have even tried to assign things to me that I never even posted. Then, when you were illuminated for all to see, you took an 88 avenue we know so well, and sported the <I>victim</I> role.<BR/><BR/>This is it in a nutshell:<BR/><BR/>No one dislikes you. Most of us have more experience with the world of academia than you can possibly bring to this forum.<BR/><BR/>Your occasional condescension....and lack of a strong position against people like the Gritty Duke Gang....makes you much less effective than you otherwise could be.<BR/><BR/>For me, you are the ratty little version of the cowardly go-along-to-get-along Erwin Chemerinsky on this blog.<BR/><BR/>I want to like you.<BR/><BR/>I have tried.<BR/><BR/>I prefer strong men. <BR/><BR/>Live a too short for such predictable obfuscation.Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-61334543796458636642007-09-14T13:03:00.000-04:002007-09-14T13:03:00.000-04:00To the 11.18:I wasn't aware that either Columbia o...To the 11.18:<BR/><BR/>I wasn't aware that either Columbia or NYU had openings at the senior level in my field in recent years. Perhaps you could direct me to the announcement?<BR/><BR/>Re the claim that the Coop has in stock book by "lots" of Group members, I asked for verified proof only because the claim itself is so odd. Having spent some time in the Coop, it's not a particularly large bookstore for non-textbook items (basically one floor). To the extent that most Group members have published anything, they're hard-cover books from university presses--of which the Coop has on its shelves relatively few.<BR/><BR/>Finally, as to the item of "obsessed": I'd say that someone allegedly wandering around bookstores in Harvard Square asking if they have in stock copies of my book is an expert on obsession.kcjohnson9https://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-4832357847713293102007-09-14T12:09:00.000-04:002007-09-14T12:09:00.000-04:00#26... Sweet. This book should go to No. 1. This...#26... Sweet. This book should go to No. 1. This is information every parent should have, IMHO.<BR/><BR/>Congrats, KC.<BR/><BR/>duke 76, you are a putz. When I want to be "challenged" by a floating Mayan penis, I'll look up the G88 publication. <BR/><BR/>-RDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-63308766966792273842007-09-14T11:28:00.000-04:002007-09-14T11:28:00.000-04:00Ralph,I don't think it's a systematic failure. I ...Ralph,<BR/><BR/>I don't think it's a systematic failure. I think there are problems of the sort you believe might be systematic. I'll give you a few thoughts, although I think I've posted these before, but perhaps not all at once.<BR/><BR/>1. I am a tenure skeptic. I understand its value but I am very well aware of its costs. I think the academy needs to take a serious look at those costs and benefits and see whether there aren't alternatives. For a good discussion of the issue, and from a left-wing college administrator, go <A HREF="http://suburbdad.blogspot.com/2007/09/tenure-and-spinach.html" REL="nofollow">here.</A><BR/><BR/>2. A problem on my own campus is the proliferation of majors and programs. I would like to see academia ask whether or not, and especially at small schools like mine that cannot afford the opportunity cost, the various "studies" can't be reintegrated into the older disciplines. I think this makes administrative sense and might well help address concerns about sub-standard scholarship. At larger schools, I'm more willing to allow for trans-disciplinary indulgences, but tenure and review committees need to be extra vigilant.<BR/><BR/>3. Faculty who violate faculty handbooks should face consequences for doing so, especially when said violations involve their treatment of students. <BR/><BR/>4. I would like to see more graduate programs pay more attention to helping PhD students learn how to teach, and to teach the skills associated with liberal education in particular: writing, speaking, research, crit thinking, and critical reading. <BR/><BR/>5. I would like to see research schools take teaching more seriously when it comes to tenure and other reviews. When teaching undergraduates is the least valuable thing you do, in the eyes of tenure/review committees, it's not surprising that you'll do a crappy job and not care much about your students.<BR/><BR/>6. I am vehemently opposed to treating political views as another "diversity" category. However, I would like to see more explicit recognition of the value to students' critical thinking skills and their broader education of being exposed to a variety of views, and not just a variety of left-wing views. I'd like to see this happen with more faculty being willing to have students read the *best work of people the faculty disagree with* rather than critiques of said work. Notice that if we pay more attention to teaching in training and reward processes, it becomes easier to make this argument because one-sided teaching is bad teaching, and students know it.<BR/><BR/>7. I also vehemently oppose expanding government control or oversight over higher ed, and not just because I opposed such expansions of government on principle pretty much everywhere. More specifically (sarcasm on), the federal (not to mention state/local) governments have done such a great job running our primary and secondary public school systems, not to mention Social Security and the War in Iraq, why not let them do the universities too? (sarcasm off)<BR/><BR/>There's a few ideas.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-30526269272500566952007-09-14T11:26:00.000-04:002007-09-14T11:26:00.000-04:00Steven Horwitz - good to have you back - a voice o...Steven Horwitz - good to have you back - a voice of reason is always welcome - dangerous in a rabid mob.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-46826914649325429832007-09-14T11:20:00.000-04:002007-09-14T11:20:00.000-04:00KC wrote:"Indeed, in my talk at Duke, I went out o...KC wrote:<BR/><BR/>"Indeed, in my talk at Duke, I went out of my way to say [the faculty] should not be punished by the administration . . ."<BR/><BR/>With all due respect for your unparalleled analysis, this does not make sense. And it is inconsistent with your prescriptions for others who have behaved badly in this sordid affair.<BR/><BR/>For the following examples, let us ignore the validity of the underlying claims and the severity of the penalities. <BR/><BR/>Don Imus was fired for violating certain standards of professional conduct. The New England Patriots were fined and lost draft picks for essentially the same reason. We all know the nature of Nifong's actions and of his well-deserved punishments. <BR/><BR/>And, yet, you and others are unwilling to hold faculty to the same standards of justice. Justice demands evaluation (they acted unprofessionally and unethically), and *action* (they deserve to lose values).<BR/><BR/>You are admirably correct (and courageous) in your *evaluation* of the G88's disgusting actions. But your view that "they should not be punished" makes the evaluation rather toothless. If there are no consequences for bad behavior, then there is no justice. And if there is no justice, then the guilty will cause more destruction in the future. <BR/><BR/>Practically speaking, what penalities have the G88 earned? Since most of them have shown no remorse and no understanding of what caused their bad behavior, the punishments should be severe.<BR/><BR/>Some deserve public censure. Others deserve to be fined and removed from the classroom for at least a semester. A few deserve to be fired, tenure not withstanding.<BR/><BR/>I realize that many in academia believe that they are "beyond good and evil," that there are no standards, and that they should have a blank check to do and say whatever they want. (It's rather amazing that these same academics are so quick to condemn the actions of, say, student-athletes and corporate executives.) However, it is precisely this (one-sided) moral agnosticism that encourages G88-types to run amok. <BR/><BR/>I hope that no one responds with the childishly ad hominem attack that amounts to: "Who died and made you justice dictator?" Such a statement is, of course, self-refuting. <BR/><BR/>Duke ProfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-49266677045569198842007-09-14T11:18:00.000-04:002007-09-14T11:18:00.000-04:00KC, You know, the real question is why are you so ...KC, <BR/>You know, the real question is why are you so obsessed with some of these Duke faculty. It seems a bit envious to have spent this much time and attention on them.... Your motives begin to emerge as the more interesting topic the more you harp on the 88. Is it institutional envy? I mean I love Brooklyn College, but NYU and Columbia are also in New York. Maybe you could go on the market with this book and find a way to feel better about yourself so that you don't have to go looking over the publication histories of those who have done some better than you, professionally speaking that is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-34741012739461678822007-09-14T11:10:00.000-04:002007-09-14T11:10:00.000-04:00KC, I believe you doth protest so much that it see...KC, I believe you doth protest so much that it seems your oh so thickened skin (too much time at the computer perhaps?) gets you a bit riled. <BR/>So, the plan now is if you don't want to believe it, then let's have photo evidence? Check it out for yourself. (Or might you be too worried to see whether some of your other (ahem) publications are there and be disappointed when you find the only historians are those of note, like, say William H. Chafe?<BR/>But, let's not be thin-skinned. You know as well as the rest of us, that if it ain't NYT top ten, it's a footnote. That's the rule of the game.<BR/>By the way, the answer to the question for *both* the Harvard Bookstore and the Coop was "we haven't ordered that, you can special order it if you like--but it won't be in our regular stock."<BR/>Ouch!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-39797819308051158192007-09-14T10:49:00.000-04:002007-09-14T10:49:00.000-04:00To the 10.33:The book is currently #26 on the New ...To the 10.33:<BR/><BR/>The book is currently #26 on the New York Times bestseller list.<BR/><BR/>With the Coop: I'll repeat the question that I asked previously: did you ask whether the book was out of stock and on order, or whether the Coop had made an editorial decision not to stock?<BR/><BR/>Since the Coop is B&N-owned, I suspect it's the former.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you would share with us the "lots" of Group publications you saw on the shelf, with digital photos to vouch for the authenticity of your claim.kcjohnson9https://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-28979319918811985902007-09-14T10:33:00.000-04:002007-09-14T10:33:00.000-04:0013,000 copies?! No wonder this appeared on the Rea...13,000 copies?! No wonder this appeared on the Reader's Digest List. Of course, you may have noted that yesterday's USA Today's top sellers mentions NO lacrosse related book at all. OMIGOSH! But, then, after all, that's a wider reading audience survey than that accomplished by the esteemed Reader's Digest. By the way, the Harvard Coop, has no Stuart Johnson/KC book either. (Lots of 88 publications on the shelves though). Seems there's a standard being applied someplace. But we must all be thankful for the dependable Reader's Digest. The publication that edits the text down to the most readable for the common reader...and leaves all that other stuff that might challenge out. Good location. And let's hope the next 13000 are similarly snapped up. I stand by my October surprise prediction. A Halloween night bargain on the remainders shelves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-65673969927290217762007-09-14T09:57:00.000-04:002007-09-14T09:57:00.000-04:00Steven Horwitz said:"Because I am not interested i...Steven Horwitz said:<BR/><BR/>"Because I am not interested in having my own faculty colleagues, nor do I think it's likely that they would do so, make a public statement on the behavior of faculty at another school, suddenly *I* am no better than Brodhead?"<BR/><BR/>No at all, but it does raise in the public's mind the perfectly reasonable question "Is <B>all</B> of higher education like this?"<BR/><BR/>You seem to agree that there was professional nonfeasance and malfeasance by identifiable individuals and institutions.<BR/><BR/>What do you think should be your profession's response?<BR/><BR/>You've told us numerous times what things they are unlikely to do, and what things they shouldn't be asked to do. Now I want to hear the positive:<BR/><BR/>What actions should your industry take to deal with this large, public and possibly systematic failure?<BR/><BR/>If your answer is "nothing" please say so clearly.<BR/><BR/>If your answer is not "nothing" please state succinctly what you think should be done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-68098948624752746522007-09-14T09:52:00.000-04:002007-09-14T09:52:00.000-04:00Yes, I saved the Houston Baker Email, with all it'...Yes, I saved the Houston Baker Email, with all it's threats. If you wish, you can drop me a note @ propagandaisnotnews@yahoo.com <BR/><BR/>His transmittal was most illuminating. He is impotent in his use of language. Without his ability to call someone a racist, there is nothing else he can do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-31527098437175401912007-09-14T08:59:00.000-04:002007-09-14T08:59:00.000-04:00If KC doesn't let this one go, so be it.Go to hell...If KC doesn't let this one go, so be it.<BR/><BR/>Go to hell Hamilton. Bottom line: I've been called a lot worse by a lot better.<BR/><BR/>I have *repeatedly* pointed out and criticized the misconduct by the G88 for violating the Duke Faculty Handbook and throwing their students under the bus with the implicit and explicit allegations about the LAX players. I have also, google it, said that if department funds were used, or if the sponsoring departments never voted on sponsorship of the LS, this was also a violation of faculty rules that needs to be addressed and punished. To say that I'm not interested in faculty "misconduct" is just blatantly false.<BR/><BR/>*I* have called them out on this as any reasoned DIW reader knows. Because I am not interested in having my own faculty colleagues, nor do I think it's likely that they would do so, make a public statement on the behavior of faculty at another school, suddenly *I* am no better than Brodhead? That's just absurd and insulting.<BR/><BR/>I do not, however, see crappy scholarship as "misconduct," nor do I think their scholarship is as uniformly crappy as folks around here do. And I don't think that firing most/all of the G88 over what they did is either possible or just. <BR/><BR/>If you want to disagree with me fine, but get my position right. And I could do without the images of physical violence as well.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86139085509881447032007-09-14T08:19:00.000-04:002007-09-14T08:19:00.000-04:00Gary Packwood said... "Last week I began to draft ...Gary Packwood said... <BR/>"Last week I began to draft several proposals..."<BR/><BR/>As sson as you have somethig ready to go I'll eagerly write my Congressthieves in support. <BR/><BR/>I'll be sending you my email address offline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-57061407678310998252007-09-14T02:08:00.000-04:002007-09-14T02:08:00.000-04:00Anonymous said... Ralph, you are usually a voice o...Anonymous said... <BR/>Ralph, you are usually a voice of reason who I enjoy reading. But today you have missed the mark. You seem to have forgotten that we leave it for our enemies to stretch and distort the truth, so that we will retain the strength of the moral high ground.<BR/><BR/>I refer to this claim:<BR/><BR/>"A man who threatened to rape the daughter of a political enemy was rewarded for doing so (Nartey.)"<BR/><BR/>Nartey's e-mail to Pressler was vile and stupid and yes, ONE of the possible ways it could be interpreted was as a threat. For purposes of public safety, erring on the side of caution and treating it as a threat was the correct thing to do.<BR/><BR/>However, this does not mean that this was the only correct interpretation or even the most likely interpretation. A far more plausible interpretation is that Nartey assumed (as many did) that there was a crime and that Pressler knew something he wasn't telling. In his arrogance, Nartey decided that Pressler (a man old enough to be his father) either didn't understand 'the seriousness of the situation' or had insufficient empathy for the victim. In his arrogance and phenomenally poor judgment, Nartey took it upon himself to 'cure' Pressler of his purported lack of comprehension; asking Pressler to picture his daughter as the victim of a crime such as the one alleged was supposed to make Pressler say "oh my God! Crystal Gail Mangum is someone's daughter too! Even I, a privileged white, can see this now that this undergraduate student with the wisdom of Solomon has lifted the scales from my eyes! I must make full confession!"<BR/><BR/>Arrogant. Stupid. Vile. Disgusting. But ... not intended as a threat. If Nartey had asked, instead, "What if your daughter had been the one dancing at that house on March 13?" then it wouldn't have been possible to take it as a threat at all, but merely as a counterfactual. To reduce it to "threatened to rape the daughter of a political enemy", as if this was not one interpretation but the only possible interpretation, is unjustified. <BR/><BR/>9/13/07 3:27 PM <BR/><BR/>=================================<BR/><BR/>1. Very silly thinking here--> very soft headed given the atmosphere during that time.<BR/><BR/>2. Nartey should have been suspended---> and would have if........he were not somehow protected. <BR/><BR/>3. Where was the outrage in Durham?? Why was the McFayden email joke instead so highly publicized? <BR/><BR/>4. One hates to be nasty but this is perhaps the most useless thinking Ive seen in quite awhile.<BR/><BR/>AllieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-78812183812240027282007-09-14T01:24:00.000-04:002007-09-14T01:24:00.000-04:0010:50 One can only hope that you are correct. Good...10:50 One can only hope that you are correct. Good analysisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com