tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post4894026014313271939..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: Sunday Roundupkcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-59585831668759703922007-03-05T16:57:00.000-05:002007-03-05T16:57:00.000-05:00Says columnist, Keven Bruffy:"... if the remaining...Says columnist, Keven Bruffy:<BR/>"... if the remaining charges are dropped, the Duke party would be no different than thousands of other parties that happen every year on almost every major college campus in the country".<BR/><BR/>Hiring strippers is legal.<BR/>Underage drinking is NOT legal.<BR/>Rape is NOT legal.<BR/>Drug-Rape deserves castration.<BR/><BR/>These illegal activities are exactly what's happening at most college fraternities.<BR/><BR/>Why do you suppose "risk management" was introduced several years ago, and finally implemented throughout the fraternity system?E-mail:https://www.blogger.com/profile/05104865182873148411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-40702557452384963152007-03-04T23:22:00.000-05:002007-03-04T23:22:00.000-05:00A consistent pattern throughout this case has been...<I>A consistent pattern throughout this case has been the high-quality, and empathetic, commentary from most in the college press.</I><BR/><BR/>This <A HREF="http://www.thehoya.com/news/022707/news4.cfm" REL="nofollow">article </A>in the Georgetown Hoya shows all the signs of G88-style education. <BR/><BR/>On the front page, above the fold, the headline, "Coach Talks With Indicted Duke Player," subheadline, "Seligmann Voices Interest in GU." What a horror! Talking with an "Indicted Duke Player"! And let's all cringe, "Seligmann Voices Interest in GU." After all, everyone knows that the "indicted Duke players" are horrible persons.<BR/><BR/>This is the case summary that the article provides:<BR/><I>Seligmann and Duke teammates Colin Finnerty and David Evans were charged last spring with rape, sexual assault and kidnapping in connection with a March 2006 team party. Rape charges were dropped in December, but the other two charges have not yet been resolved.<BR/><BR/>In accordance with university policy, Duke suspended the three players last spring pending the resolution of the charges against them. Seligmann and Finnerty were invited to return to classes last month but do not plan to do so while charges are pending; Evans was a senior last spring and graduated in May. All three players have maintained their innocence.</I><BR/><BR/>That's it. Nothing about the prosecutor being charged with misconduct and being removed from the case. Nothing about the total lack of credible evidence to support the charges. Nothing about the hardship that the obviously bogus charges have imposed on the "indicted Duke lacrosse players". Just straight factual reporting in the Hoya, informing the Georgetown community of the shocking news of communication with persons whose reputation has been maliciously destroyed. Unbelievably vicious, evil reporting. No concern for truth and justice.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps this article indicates the kind of education that Georgetown students are receiving. It indicates an education that would make the Duke Group of 88 and their ilk proud.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-79620840746376479042007-03-04T16:39:00.000-05:002007-03-04T16:39:00.000-05:009:01Well written - your liberal bona fides are in ...9:01<BR/><BR/>Well written - your liberal bona fides are in order. I mean, who else but a liberal could write such a racist comment!<BR/><BR/>Time to fall back to your "some of my best friends are black" position. That's just sad. Are you Polanski under deep cover?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-27132439107800290582007-03-04T14:56:00.000-05:002007-03-04T14:56:00.000-05:00To the 8:29 poster:There is no way that the prosec...To the 8:29 poster:<BR/><BR/>There is no way that the prosecution can bring this case to trial and not have Ms. Mangnum testify. The 6th Amendment to the US Constitution (and yes, it does apply to NC as well) provides that criminal defendants have the right to confront and cross-examine witnesses. That means that Ms. Mangum does not have the option of submitting a sworn statement in lieu of testimony, nor may she appear by videotape. She must appear in person, and face cross-examination by multiple defense attorneys, all of whom will be armed with an enormous arsenal of impeaching evidence to use against her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-83305077689979754732007-03-04T13:33:00.000-05:002007-03-04T13:33:00.000-05:00This isn't exactly "on topic" but can anybody tell...This isn't exactly "on topic" but can anybody tell me how many of the 88, if any, have tenure at Duke? I've been reading up on that and spoke with a former A&T instructor who said this: (paraphrased)<BR/><BR/>elevating the AAAS (Poster, me, read that in the blogs somewhere) to department status might be wise to make it easier for the administration to keep an eye on them. Further, tenure makes it very difficult to fire a professor but not impossible. Failure to follow the handbook might or might not be sufficient to terminate the tenured professor.<BR/><BR/>I'm trying to figure out just what Duke can do to clean up the mess. I understand there is politics on campus and everybody is trying to cover themselves, but if this stuff becomes MSM public, the discussions on dukes enrollment numbers are going to take on a whole new dimension. <BR/><BR/>I can't see where anybody who researches schools before going is going to choose this one knowing what the current administration allows in the name of justice. I don't have his exact quote, but Kevin Finnerty, Collin's father, said when asked about sending Collin back to Duke something to the effect of with Nifong running justice down there and the schools failure to protect the students, who would send their kid to that. <BR/><BR/>Am I missing something in the greater picture. Is there more to the cleanup then meets my eye. I don't understand why the administration has not fired those of the 88 that they can and started whatever proceedings to clean out the rest. I truly would appreciate any input on the cleanup and what it truly would take to put Duke right again.<BR/><BR/>Thank you in advance<BR/>gakAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-46204588087768891512007-03-04T13:13:00.000-05:002007-03-04T13:13:00.000-05:00To P. Rich--I hope your predictions are not right-...To P. Rich--<BR/>I hope your predictions are not right--and one thing that may make a difference is that there is no way the case could be prosecuted without the testimony of the accuser. Because the defendants have the constitutional right to confront (i.e., cross-examine) the witnesses against them, a sworn statement from her will not be acceptable (and at the very least, even if the prosecution could somehow get around this problem, the statement would presumably bring in with it every other contradictory claim and statement she has made--leaving a huge mess if there is no way to try to explain away the inconsistencies through live witness testimony). And without some sort of testimony from the accuser, there's just no evidence on which to build any sort of case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-13799043427019533022007-03-04T12:44:00.000-05:002007-03-04T12:44:00.000-05:00While I appreciate the attempts to explain Nifong'...While I appreciate the attempts to explain Nifong's behavior in this matter as sociopathic and/or narcissistic, we should not dismiss the probability that Nifong is just plain old mean.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-44683039437628295392007-03-04T12:03:00.000-05:002007-03-04T12:03:00.000-05:00If Nifong was smart, he would have an accident and...If Nifong was smart, he would have an accident and be out on Workers Comp for the next two years, He could give up his law license, complete hs pension requirement and still get paid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-41819386953606712582007-03-04T11:32:00.000-05:002007-03-04T11:32:00.000-05:00the USA Today article lists the accuser's age as 1...the USA Today article lists the accuser's age as 18.Isn't she in her late twenties?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-33020018871747526742007-03-04T11:17:00.000-05:002007-03-04T11:17:00.000-05:00Using Joyner's theory, why bother with a pre-trial...Using Joyner's theory, why bother with a pre-trial line-up or photo ID?<BR/><BR/>Just arrest anybody, get them into court, and have the accuser claim the "defendant" to be "the one."<BR/><BR/>I wonder how many people accused of a criminal act would agree with Joyner's view of "justice." Would Joyner himself agree with it should he ever find himself so accused?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-19964762590941286452007-03-04T11:07:00.000-05:002007-03-04T11:07:00.000-05:00If the Justice system even considers buying off on...If the Justice system even considers buying off on Nifong's excuses after his public videotaped and obvious transgressions, the jury on Scooter Libby's case ought to come back with a finding recommending him for sainthood. <BR/><BR/>We saw the standard the justice system held Martha Stewart to....if they hold one of their own to a lesser standard, the special place of lawyers in the US judicial system needs to go.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-45723156448042925382007-03-04T10:37:00.000-05:002007-03-04T10:37:00.000-05:00to JRH at 10 AM from a non-lawyer / retired profes...to JRH at 10 AM from a non-lawyer / retired professor: You raise some excellent points. Note that on Nifong's December 28 letter to the state bar he used his official "District Attorney" stationary. I find this tacky and inappropriate since he is responding as an individual, and not in his official capacity as DA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-90544703692530999672007-03-04T10:28:00.000-05:002007-03-04T10:28:00.000-05:00From gakI noticed the article looked slanted still...<I>From gak</I><BR/><BR/>I noticed the article looked slanted still. Terms like "drunken off-campus party" and refering to the accuser as 18. Not to mention the comments by Mr Joyner and Mr Fitzpatrick. I am eager to see just exactly how this plays out. My big concern is the time limit on these civil suits I hear so much about. I have only heard of one about the grades. I wonder how this is going to play out for the 3 who owe so much, leave alone the other forty-something who weren't charged. <BR/><BR/>To Shipwreck<BR/>Do the people who publish newspapers even read their articles? How can a national newspaper get something so wrong? <BR/><BR/>I was working for an insurance company when an ex employee came back and killed some people in management. The incorrect information being published as fact was frightening. I suggest you are correct that nobody double checks this stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-7144150853585091742007-03-04T10:06:00.000-05:002007-03-04T10:06:00.000-05:00KCLike you I saw the articles about Addison at Jin...KC<BR/><BR/>Like you I saw the articles about Addison at JinC. Unlike you, I was not persuaded: Addison can take the Fifth Amendment; he does not have to say a thing. Of course, the Feds can offer him immunity, and they probably will.<BR/><BR/>That probably would not be a bad thing in this case; testimony about the frame-up from a low-level participant is the way to get to the people really responsible, e.g. Nifong.<BR/><BR/>JeffMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-47642684199474087412007-03-04T10:00:00.000-05:002007-03-04T10:00:00.000-05:00I have been reading KC's preview of his book for s...I have been reading KC's preview of his book for some time now, and followed his career and his earlier fight for freedom of expression with great admiration (full disclosure: I am a Williams grad). But one subject I do not remember seeing addressed is Nifong's actions since he relinquished the "rape" case and was charged with several offenses in the conduct of his office. Specifically:<BR/><BR/>1) To what degree is he devoting himself in his duties as dictrict attorney, as opposed to spending work hours on his personal defense? If he is not able to work full-time, he would seem to be receiving compensation from the office for his personal matters.<BR/><BR/>2) A similar question involves his use of public resources over and above his own work time for his defense. Is he using the work of other government officials during work hours to assist in his defense?<BR/><BR/>3) Is any portion of Nifong's legal defense cost being borne by Durham or the state of North Carolina? The public has a right to know this.<BR/><BR/>If Nifong is any way not able to work full-time, or if he is improperly using public resources for personal use, he ought to step down, at least until this over. As despicable as his actions have been, he has a legal right to remain in office until the matter is decided; that is part of our legal process. But he does not have the right to use public time/funds/resources improperly, and we ought to know whther this is, in fact, going on.jrhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10901799521785546262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-14366467615876476232007-03-04T09:42:00.000-05:002007-03-04T09:42:00.000-05:00Jon 12.51 I think you are confusing this board wit...Jon 12.51 <BR/><BR/>I think you are confusing this board with the FODU board.<BR/><BR/>KC of this board ...is Professor KC Johnson, a Professor of History<BR/><BR/>Jason...is Professor Jason Trumpbour, a Professor of Law. <BR/><BR/>The URL for his board is below.<BR/><BR/>Friends of Duke University (FODU)<BR/>http://friendsofdukeuniversity.blogspot.com/Gary Packwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05177986821224068759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-45544850203983930892007-03-04T09:36:00.000-05:002007-03-04T09:36:00.000-05:00Professor Joyner's view, that the lineup is not a ...Professor Joyner's view, that the lineup is not a problem so long as the complainant can make an identification in the courtoom, shows an astonishing ignorance of criminal procedure. Such an answer on a law school or bar exam would result in an "F." Apparently, he did not take or slept through the criminal procedure course which is required at most law schools. I hope that he does not each criminal pocedure.<BR/><BR/>In fact, the very reason for standard lineup procedures requiring one suspect and 6 "fillers," is to avoid a situation such as this.<BR/><BR/>A tainted identification claim by a defendant requires a hearing at which the prosecution must show the that the witness identified the defendant because of the opportunity to see the defendant at the time of the crime and not because of later suggestive procedures by the police.<BR/><BR/>Normally, identifications problems result when police has "single-shotted" the defendant, meaning that the witness was shown a photo of only the defendant and asked, "Is this the one." Problems occur also in a lineup when, for example, the defendant's appearance differs from other in th lineup, usually because of race, weight or height. I've never heard of one, as here, where any ID was a good one, since the photo lineup consisted only of suspects.<BR/><BR/>Could Professor Joyner have been visiting at UNC, when Mr. Nifong attended, and been his criminal procedure procedure instructor? That two supposed criminal procedure experts reside closeby in a single state surely could not occur by chance.<BR/> <BR/>That the victim, as I recall, is not referring to the defendant's by their first names, perfectly illustrates the necessity of proper lineup procedures. Faulty initial lineup procedures are compounded when there has been excessive post-line publicity, including showing the defendant's picture and name on television and in the newspaper, as has occurred here.<BR/><BR/>There is a saying that nobody's life ever needs to be considered wasted, for it can always be used as a bad example." That certainly applies her, for Mr. Nifong has created a constitutional tangle for the state AG's office which can become a teaching tool for what not to do.Ex-prosecutorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17508381908461630710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-26629516446932163532007-03-04T09:01:00.000-05:002007-03-04T09:01:00.000-05:00That Youtube video was very well done. It is very ...That Youtube video was very well done. <BR/><BR/>It is very encouraging to see a black person with the insight to realize that supporting Nifong's injustice in this case makes them hypocrites when they protest similar injustices in other cases. <BR/><BR/>I also liked his comments about how this case hurts real rape victims. <BR/><BR/>He nailed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-40259550302127149522007-03-04T08:29:00.000-05:002007-03-04T08:29:00.000-05:00I remain skeptical of future events in this case. ...I remain skeptical of future events in this case. While the excellent coverage here has focused on facts, irregularities, and bizarre behavior of principals (other than the accused) and fringe elements, I think there is a significant unasked question which will drive the behavior of the politicians and their current appointees (investigators, judges, et al). That question is, essentially:<BR/><BR/>How can "we" minimize damage to the (Democratic) Party and least disappoint our Black voter base?<BR/><BR/>I don't assign much value to predictions, mine included, but I think in this case the answers to that key question are fairly obvious:<BR/><BR/>1. Hold a trial. This will be essential.<BR/><BR/>2. Refuse a change of venue, ensuring selection of some local Black jury members who will be predisposed toward a particular outcome. Black "participation" is essential also.<BR/><BR/>3. Keep the lying accuser off the stand, perhaps by introducing a sworn written statement into evidence and pleading emotional distress - if this is possible.<BR/><BR/>The most likely trial outcome, and desired political outcome, is a hung jury. No re-trial will be forthcoming become "the community needs to heal;" the predicted outcome of a retrial would be the same; and an original guilty verdict would be overturned on appeal in about a microsecond - another embarrassment.<BR/><BR/>I would really like to be wrong about all this; but politics is nasty business, and right now, this looks to me to be roughly the most probable scenario moving forward.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86153770156942549712007-03-04T08:05:00.000-05:002007-03-04T08:05:00.000-05:00Many thanks to KC and to Bill Anderson for contin...Many thanks to KC and to Bill Anderson for continuing to systematically and thoughtfully voice outrage at this nonsensical and hateful mess. I am grateful to you both and also grateful that this case has created a national opportunity to reveal the rotten nature of the misandry so present in our culture. Perhaps there is hope for us yet. <BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree more with you on the JetBlue assessment. I love them too. For anyone over 6' they are a blessing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-50619119324900558332007-03-04T07:42:00.000-05:002007-03-04T07:42:00.000-05:00Neeleman of jetBlue not only apologized more impor...Neeleman of jetBlue not only apologized more importantly he swiftly corrected any chance of that happenening again.<BR/><BR/>Not only has there been no apology, more importantly there has been nothing done to corrct this problem and, in fact, the problem has probably been emboldened. <BR/><BR/>The Duke Faculty Guide should have been sufficient grounds for either severely repremanding these 88 faculty members or, better, terminating them for gross misconduct. brodhead has been an ineffectual and feckless leader of this University.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-62663659571429331082007-03-04T07:32:00.000-05:002007-03-04T07:32:00.000-05:00"ALL students of every gender are welcome!" - Harv..."ALL students of every gender are welcome!" - Harvard Dean, inre: Sex speech.<BR/><BR/>We only have two genders where I'm from. Maybe the NSF has funded some interesting research in their biology lab?<BR/><BR/>"Each" reads better than "every" in this sentence, unless you a hermaphrodite. Maybe the subtle message is that Duke, Yale, Princeton, et al are under represented by hermaphordites and that Harvard is leading the charge.<BR/><BR/>I suppose these classes make their Grandmother's very proud. One wonders what is discussed at Thanksgiving when the topic of one's career is raised.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-80984551915499589202007-03-04T07:20:00.000-05:002007-03-04T07:20:00.000-05:00Joyner and the NAACP have destroyed any credibilit...Joyner and the NAACP have destroyed any credibility they may once have had. Their blatantly hypocritical comments in this case will be quoted back to them in the future in every case where a black defendant has been the victim of a prosecutor's misconduct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-68859038279243505832007-03-04T06:24:00.000-05:002007-03-04T06:24:00.000-05:00I like Her posting.CrystalmessI like Her posting.<BR/><A HREF="http://crystalmess.blogspot.com/2006/07/now-hear-this-dont-be-obtuse.html" REL="nofollow">Crystalmess</A>GShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08203397721811994169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-81619779687873160472007-03-04T04:52:00.000-05:002007-03-04T04:52:00.000-05:00Joyner's unbelievable statements should be known a...Joyner's unbelievable statements should be known all over the blogosphere, especially by the left-wing and/or liberal blogs of N.C. which are so desperately trying to ignore the big elephants in the room.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com