tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post5225664952322119521..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: The Nartey Dilemmakcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-13014889309195467842007-07-14T18:44:00.000-04:002007-07-14T18:44:00.000-04:00So, when will President Brodhead resign?So, when will President Brodhead resign?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-19352990953160305352007-06-13T09:11:00.000-04:002007-06-13T09:11:00.000-04:00i consider it that you all "asked" that question ...i consider it that you all "asked" that question when one of the other posters implied i am an undergraduate. i am as about as postgraduate as you can get, ie, i have a terminal degree. as to the head of a company not having an indergraduate degree, so what? the ability to make money is not a substitute for intellectual accomplishment or morals. BTW, your lack of intellectual accomplishment is showing as i quoted the most famous lines of all those works and many people will recognise what i wrote. Many people can even recognise which character said what line for Gone with the Wind: "Frankly my dear..." is a line by Rhett Butler, "Tomorrow is another day..." and "I'll never be hungry again.." are by Scarlett. As to Paradise Lost, the character of Satan said the famous line above. I could go on but i sense you do not have a clue as to what i am talking about (and it is off topic). Suffice it to say that American psycho does not have that level of recognition, period. I advise you to read the book or watch the movie before you get on here and make a fool of yourself trying to pretend it is normal for young men to so identify with that movie as to write what Ryan wrote. maybe you need a bit of putting it in context yourself before you defend and minimise it. as to duke deciding to readmit Ryan, that is a political decision trying to avoid litigation and only occured after the pr firm the lax team hired had gotten their message across and the possibilities of a lawsuit was mentioned; there is no indication that it was a decision based purely on ethics. i know duke well and duke does not operate on those terms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-65100398047105142912007-06-12T07:10:00.000-04:002007-06-12T07:10:00.000-04:00> to the poster at 1:34, I know all about pop cult...> to the poster at 1:34, I know all about pop culture allusions, you<BR/>> idiot! and i am telling you that none of american psycho is on the<BR/>> level of the recognised lines from movies like Casablanca: "round up<BR/>> the usual suspects", 'this is the start of a beautiful friendship" or<BR/>> Gone with the Wind: "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!" and<BR/>> "tomorrow is another day" and "as God as my witness, I'll never be<BR/>> hungry again!" or even Paradise Lost(which i read in high school and<BR/>> remember VERY well!):"It is better to rule in Hell than serve in<BR/>> Heaven." Psycho does not have that level of mass recoginition and no<BR/>> one initially recognised what Ryan wrote. Sorry to burst your bubbles.<BR/><BR/>People have differing tastes in their reading and while you may find<BR/>the above titles interesting, I do run into brilliant people that would<BR/>have a lot of trouble identifying with the material that you posted<BR/>above. I think that American Psycho has some amount of popularity given<BR/>the rankings that I've seen on book sites and given that I'm aware of<BR/>the title. I generally don't read fiction nor watch movies so just the<BR/>fact that I'm familiar with the title indicates that it has been out<BR/>there.<BR/><BR/>> Also, Michael, you are on here defending the email and you admit on<BR/>> here that you have not even read the book or the seen the movie<BR/>> yourself, yet you arguing it is more popular than Gone with the Wind<BR/>> with people recently! WTF? <BR/><BR/>I indicated that it had a higher rank that Gone With The Wind at one<BR/>or more websites. I'm old enough to realize that tastes vary from<BR/>generation to generation. I don't see the attraction of rap or hip-hop<BR/>music but it seems to be wildly popular with the younger crowd. I'm<BR/>sure that the younger crowd doesn't exactly flock to Neil Diamond<BR/>concerts.<BR/><BR/>> Maybe you should go and rent this masterpiece and get the book and<BR/>> actually see for yourself what Ryan is quoting and see how wonderful<BR/>> and benign it is( i am being sarcastic here).<BR/><BR/>Why? I don't claim that the book is wonderful. It doesn't appear to be<BR/>as obscure as you make it out to be and, as it does appear to be<BR/>something used in high schools and colleges.<BR/><BR/>> If you are a mature adult you will be shocked that it is taught at<BR/>> duke and sad that a young person would be quoting from that sort of<BR/>> book/movie. i HAVE seen it and it is horrific( i could not make it<BR/>> through the book, it was too graphic and even more nauseating).<BR/><BR/>Kids seem to be numb to graphic violence on movies and books today.<BR/>Check out some of the lyrics of popular rap music today or find a<BR/>Christian commentary site on rap. Your typical person can filter<BR/>this stuff out though in their own personal behaviour.<BR/><BR/>> it is not a fit subject for young men and women and to be quoting from<BR/>> it is abnormal. if you had experienced the movie or the book, you<BR/>> would not be trying to minimise it.<BR/><BR/>It appears that you're making a moral judgement on a particular piece<BR/>of literature. The mature person realizes that this is a waste of time<BR/>in the age of anything goes. The more you try to censor something, the<BR/>more a generation wants to see the material.<BR/><BR/>But the Duke Administration did their investigation and found Ryan<BR/>innocent of violating university rules and if these old guys didn't<BR/>have a problem with it, why should you?<BR/><BR/>> And last, i am not an undergraduate. Far from it, i am definitely a<BR/>> postgraduate.<BR/><BR/>I run into a lot of people with graduate and postgraduate degrees.<BR/>They wouldn't tell you that they had graduate and postgraduate<BR/>degrees, though, unless you asked them. Their work, accomplishments<BR/>in shipping products, getting patent awards, contributing to corporate<BR/>profits and writing industry papers is what they are proud of.<BR/><BR/>The head of the company doesn't have an undergraduate degree. But his<BR/>accomplishments in life far outweigh 99% of those with postgraduate<BR/>degrees.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-10582146499475126642007-06-11T23:21:00.000-04:002007-06-11T23:21:00.000-04:00to the poster at 1:34, I know all about pop cultur...to the poster at 1:34, I know all about pop culture allusions, you idiot! and i am telling you that none of american psycho is on the level of the recognised lines from movies like Casablanca: "round up the usual suspects", 'this is the start of a beautiful friendship" or Gone with the Wind: "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!" and "tomorrow is another day" and "as God as my witness, I'll never be hungry again!" or even Paradise Lost(which i read in high school and remember VERY well!):"It is better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven." Psycho does not have that level of mass recoginition and no one initially recognised what Ryan wrote. Sorry to burst your bubbles.<BR/><BR/>Also, Michael, you are on here defending the email and you admit on here that you have not even read the book or the seen the movie yourself, yet you arguing it is more popular than Gone with the Wind with people recently! WTF? Maybe you should go and rent this masterpiece and get the book and actually see for yourself what Ryan is quoting and see how wonderful and benign it is( i am being sarcastic here). <BR/><BR/>If you are a mature adult you will be shocked that it is taught at duke and sad that a young person would be quoting from that sort of book/movie. i HAVE seen it and it is horrific( i could not make it through the book, it was too graphic and even more nauseating). it is not a fit subject for young men and women and to be quoting from it is abnormal. if you had experienced the movie or the book, you would not be trying to minimise it.<BR/><BR/>And last, i am not an undergraduate. Far from it, i am definitely a postgraduate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-13444972928692197682007-06-11T07:48:00.000-04:002007-06-11T07:48:00.000-04:00I think that digging up the article where the Duke...I think that digging up the article where the Duke Administration declares Ryan innocent should suffice.<BR/><BR/>I enjoy working through the strategies and tactics of a battle and have found that it's good to have skills in defence and offence and the patience that goes along with both.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-2015628247301088452007-06-11T01:34:00.000-04:002007-06-11T01:34:00.000-04:00This is for Michael:I think ms. no caps isn't inte...This is for Michael:<BR/><BR/>I think ms. no caps isn't interested in understanding your points. She wants to keep the attention on Ryan McF's e-mail rather than engage in discussion of Chauncy N's. I would appreciate it if she could explain what was acceptable about the latter's e-mail? Threatening someone's very real daughter? <BR/><BR/>She must know--or maybe she doesn't--that all kinds of comments/descriptions/whatever from books and films become part of popular culture, of course. Think of "Play it [again!], Sam" from "Casablanca," for example. Ditto "Gone with the Wind," "Home Alone"...<BR/><BR/>One of the interesting issues with undergraduates is that they sometimes conflate films (which they don't mind seeing) with literature (which they mind reading).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-67264407675984676352007-06-11T00:00:00.000-04:002007-06-11T00:00:00.000-04:00re: 11:27I've send Bill Anderson an email to see i...re: 11:27<BR/><BR/>I've send Bill Anderson an email to see if he would like to add some of the discussion here to his article on Ryan. The discussions here have required thought and effort but serve to make things more clear in my mind.<BR/><BR/>And of course I think that this would be useful for his article on Ryan as it would address this particular argument against Ryan in an article so that one could just point to the article if someone else brought it up.<BR/><BR/>My son is taking a course this summer on writing and there's a heavy research component to the course. He does stop over and read what I write from time to time. I don't think he understands my thought processes for avenues of argumentation and research but he's had the building blocks to do so for many years.<BR/><BR/>A lot of kids just like to argue their perspective and I've tried to show him the usefulness of being able to argue both sides of a case, however distasteful that may be to personal views.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-65900604681945348022007-06-10T23:27:00.000-04:002007-06-10T23:27:00.000-04:00Michael, you have the patience of a saint.And, giv...Michael, you have the patience of a saint.<BR/><BR/>And, given your correspondent's fondness for topsy-turvy reasoning, you have a soft spot for lost causes as well.<BR/><BR/>Worthy lost causes, though.AMachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08872008617279528583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-46745843395670722512007-06-10T21:15:00.000-04:002007-06-10T21:15:00.000-04:00> and your point is?You seem to think that Ryan is...> and your point is?<BR/><BR/>You seem to think that Ryan is a monster for what he wrote. And are<BR/>out on a crusade to prove that the title isn't well-known.<BR/><BR/>> american psycho is not entirely unknown but ask yourself this: if it<BR/>> was so well known that everyone knew what Ryan was talking about why<BR/>> was it reported on the news without that explanation for many days<BR/>> into it? if it was so well known, why didn't Brodhead and the<BR/>> mainstream press seem to recognize it immediately?<BR/><BR/>There is a lot of diversity in the United States as far as<BR/>entertainment goes. I have the iTunes radio tuner on my screen and<BR/>there are categories for 50s/60s Pop, 70s/80s Pop, Alternative,<BR/>Ambient, Blues, Classic Rock, Classical, Country, Dance, Eclectic,<BR/>Electronic, Folk, Hip Hop/Rap, International, Jazz, Latino, Pop,<BR/>Public, Reggae, Religious, RnB/Soul, Rock and Talk/Spoken Word. My<BR/>personal music interests would be limited to two of the categories<BR/>here and I really wouldn't bother with the rest.<BR/><BR/>On average, we go out to see a movie every one to two years. The last<BR/>book that I purchased is Fundamentals of Algoithms by Brassard and<BR/>Bratley and the last book that I borrowed for our son is Probability<BR/>Theory, The Logic of Science by Jaynes. I've never seen American<BR/>Psycho nor have I read the book. I work in a building full of<BR/>engineers with Phds and Masters degrees in mathematics and computer<BR/>science with most in their 30s, 40s and 50s. I would guess that less<BR/>than half, perhaps far less than half, have read the book or seen the<BR/>movie. I would guess that the vast majority have heard the title as I<BR/>have.<BR/><BR/>I would have a hard time believing that the average 20-year-old is<BR/>interested in the Fundamentals of Algorithms or SIMD optimization<BR/>or esoteric math papers on combinatorics from the 1700s.<BR/><BR/>When I was in college, I took a semester of French Literature and a<BR/>semester of German Literature. I have all of those books in my home<BR/>library. I would have a very hard time remembering passages from<BR/>any of those books. I might remember the story line but that would<BR/>be about it. We also read Paradise Lost in English 101. I couldn't<BR/>recall or pattern match a line or paragraph if my life depended on<BR/>it.<BR/><BR/>Now take a look at Brodhead's background. He was born in 1947 so that<BR/>would make put him in his 40s when the book came out and in his 50s<BR/>when the movie came out. I've read that Brodhead is a scholar of<BR/>19th-century American literature and Shakespeare. Do you really think<BR/>that this is the kind of guy that would read American Psycho or see<BR/>the movie given his age when they came out? And even if he did, would<BR/>he have every passage memorized?<BR/><BR/>> only when the lax defenders came up with the story that the book was<BR/>> taught at duke and the defense lawyers also began to say this same<BR/>> apologia was the email put into "context" although no one has come<BR/>> forward yet and stated that Ryan took that course which would be a<BR/>> natural follow-up question for a thinking reporter.<BR/><BR/>I guess that you'd have to include Larry Moneta, Brodhead and Bryan<BR/>as part of the LAX defenders given their take on the matter:<BR/><BR/>: Duke's vice president for student affairs Larry Moneta said McFadyen<BR/>: could return to the lacrosse team in the fall, according to the June 7<BR/>: letter to university President Richard Brodhead.<BR/><BR/>: The student's e-mail, which Moneta said was sent "in jest," was among<BR/>: various factors that led Duke to cancel the season of its highly<BR/>: ranked lacrosse team even before three players were charged with rape,<BR/>: kidnapping and sexual offense. McFadyen is not charged in the rape<BR/>: case.<BR/><BR/>: In his letter, Moneta said McFadyen was suspended because there were<BR/>: concerns whether his presence on campus posed a risk to him or<BR/>: others. But Stephen Bryan, Duke's associate dean for judicial affairs,<BR/>: reviewed the case and decided that McFadyen did not violate university<BR/>: policies regarding abuse, endangerment and disorderly conduct,<BR/>: according to Moneta's letter.<BR/><BR/>: According to Moneta, McFadyen said the e-mail used language from the<BR/>: book "American Psycho," a novel by Bret Easton Ellis - later made into<BR/>: a movie - about a serial killer.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-lacros/stories/062906aab.html" REL="nofollow">Duke Player who Sent Inflammatory E-mail Reinstated</A><BR/><BR/>> my sources here at duke say that he was not in that class but ? if<BR/>> that is true.<BR/><BR/>I've read that there were three classes where the text was used but<BR/>he could have seen the movie, or read the book outside of the class.<BR/>I note that Random House for High School Teachers lists American<BR/>Psycho in their online catalog at <A HREF="http://www.randomhouse.com/highschool/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780679735779" REL="nofollow">Random House For High School Teachers</A>.<BR/><BR/>> one thing's for certain, everyone was certainly not taking it as a<BR/>> joke when it was first published so ? just how well known and iconic<BR/>> something is if no one recognised it.<BR/><BR/>Here's a memorable quote from a huge hit movie:<BR/><BR/>[Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her.]<BR/><BR/>How many people would be able to place this off the top of their head?<BR/><BR/>How about this quote from a popular 1980s television show?<BR/><BR/>[Friend, you picked the wrong plane to mess with]<BR/><BR/>I'm not particularly interested in the music that teenagers, and those<BR/>in their 20s and 30s listen to. I don't think that I'd be interested<BR/>in the books that they read either.<BR/><BR/>But the fact of the matter is that Duke's administration cleared Ryan<BR/>after their investigations which is saying quite a bit given their<BR/>hostility and disdain for the Lacrosse players.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, your argumentation in this branch of the thread is as<BR/>sophomoric as his email was.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-87491846933090466522007-06-10T19:56:00.000-04:002007-06-10T19:56:00.000-04:00and your point is ? american psycho is not entire...and your point is ? american psycho is not entirely unknown but ask yourself this: if it was so well known that everyone knew what Ryan was talking about why was it reported on the news without that explanation for many days into it? if it was so well known, why didn't Brodhead and the mainstream press seem to recognize it immediately? only when the lax defenders came up with the story that the book was taught at duke and the defense lawyers also began to say this same apologia was the email put into "context" although no one has come forward yet and stated that Ryan took that course which would be a natural follow-up question for a thinking reporter. my sources here at duke say that he was not in that class but ? if that is true. one thing's for certain, everyone was certainly not taking it as a joke when it was first published so ? just how well known and iconic something is if no one recognised it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-48527623265644546252007-06-10T12:25:00.000-04:002007-06-10T12:25:00.000-04:00re: 8:25This guy gets beaten to a bloody pulp on s...re: 8:25<BR/><BR/>This guy gets beaten to a bloody pulp on so many points, including this one, and retorts with some simple market volatility.<BR/><BR/>Pretty pitiful.<BR/><BR/>One could argue that Early Intervention in Psychosis isn't a very popular book. But go to a site like LibraryThing.com and you'll find it ranked 329. LibraryThing.com is a site that you record the books you own at. Apparently it's a very popular title with members there.<BR/><BR/>The folks at librarything.com tend to be brighter than those in the average population becuase, they read.<BR/><BR/>http://www.librarything.com/work/7135Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-69940734581772989292007-06-10T12:20:00.000-04:002007-06-10T12:20:00.000-04:00[you can call all the names you want but i proved ...[you can call all the names you want but i proved you were full of it on the sales figures as anyone can look it up and see that those ranks you posted are full of s--t and my ranks are more factual. you then compound your mistatements by trying to use another website entirely to try to bolster your proven false claim that American psycho is oh so popular but i can predict you are probably wrong on those sales figures as well.]<BR/><BR/>My figures are correct at the times that I posted.<BR/><BR/>Regardless of my figures or your figure; both indicate a popular movie and a popular book.<BR/><BR/>[oh and the little probability problem is off topic.]<BR/><BR/>So Lacrosse detracters are poor in math and typically have problems with the truth. Perhaps you need to take a deep breath and calm down.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-25647928294770923142007-06-10T08:25:00.000-04:002007-06-10T08:25:00.000-04:00Good morning, ms. no caps,I checked and no surpris...Good morning, ms. no caps,<BR/><BR/>I checked and no surprise--your figures are not "more factual" than the other blogger's. And again, you call names and attack. That doesn't help your argument any. <BR/><BR/>Doesn't it occur to you that important point here is that the novel--and the film--are well-known popular culture icons? And, at a school like Duke, many, if not, most students will have heard of the novel and probably make reference to it. <BR/><BR/>Do you simply ignore the lack of common sense shown by the other young man, CN, the one whose politics seem to parallel yours? Bad judgement and bad behavior matter. Threatening--or appearing to threaten--someone in one's community (in this case, Duke) is really not on. Are you ignoring this issue by going off task or do you not understand it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-26216561576221566772007-06-10T04:10:00.000-04:002007-06-10T04:10:00.000-04:00you can call all the names you want but i proved y...you can call all the names you want but i proved you were full of it on the sales figures as anyone can look it up and see that those ranks you posted are full of s--t and my ranks are more factual. you then compound your mistatements by trying to use another website entirely to try to bolster your proven false claim that American psycho is oh so popular but i can predict you are probably wrong on those sales figures as well.<BR/><BR/>oh and the little probability problem is off topic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-67381189375039812592007-06-09T15:22:00.000-04:002007-06-09T15:22:00.000-04:00> in what world is American psycho 897 on DVD sale...> in what world is American psycho 897 on DVD sales on Amazon.com? Must<BR/>> be the Bizarro world. There are various DVD editions on Amazon and<BR/>> none have that sales rank:<BR/><BR/>That's where it was on Amazon.com when I posted. It appears that the<BR/>numbers are fairly volatile.<BR/><BR/>> Your numbers were similarly off for the book version but of a whole<BR/>> different magnitude. the hardcover is listed as 3,140,114 in rank and<BR/>> 19,037 in rank for one paperback edition and the most recent mass<BR/>> market paper back edition was ranked as low as 831,139 in sales<BR/>> rank. to be fair one heavily discounted version did have a sales rank<BR/>> of 3155.<BR/><BR/>Barnes and Nobles has it at 4,897.<BR/><BR/>The point remains. The book and movie are by no means obscure.<BR/><BR/>> i guess i should not be surprised as i find that lax supporters are<BR/>> not strong in math<BR/><BR/>Reading a number off of a web page isn't indicative of math ability.<BR/><BR/>If you think that you're good at math, give this problem a try:<BR/><BR/>What's the exact probability of hitting 1,000,000 rolling one die<BR/>with integral values from 1 to 6? Someone asked this in one of my<BR/>forums and we had several people with graduate math and computer<BR/>science degrees, and several Phds and Phd candidates look at the<BR/>problem. One of the probability guys and one of the computer science<BR/>guys got the value that it converges to. I found an expression for<BR/>the exact answer using a paper from the 1700s.<BR/><BR/>> or in truthtelling as a rule,imo.<BR/><BR/>Well, if you want to prove that I lied, you'd have to get the numbers<BR/>from Amazon for the last 30 hours. Otherwise, you're just as bad as<BR/>CGM, the false accuser.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-28656641486821243982007-06-09T09:17:00.000-04:002007-06-09T09:17:00.000-04:00dear ms. no caps,On-line sales numbers go up and d...dear ms. no caps,<BR/><BR/>On-line sales numbers go up and down daily if not hourly and the post you attacked might have been correct. Or is that how you make judgements? By calling names and seeking to demean?<BR/><BR/>The important point in this thread is that a person wrote something that threatened the daughter of a university employee/could have been interpreted to threaten the daughter. He showed poor judgement. Said person, being an adult, ought to have known better in the climate of the time. And, the university showed poor judgement as well in holding this person up to the larger community as some sort of paragon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-72065812928807898412007-06-09T04:35:00.000-04:002007-06-09T04:35:00.000-04:00michael,in what world is American psycho 897 on DV...michael,<BR/><BR/>in what world is American psycho 897 on DVD sales on Amazon.com? Must be the Bizarro world. There are various DVD editions on Amazon and none have that sales rank:<BR/><BR/>unrated edition( date issued: 2000) rank: 34,195<BR/>regular edition(2003) rank: 41,035<BR/>newest edition(the new uncut killer edition--out in 2005) rank: 1394<BR/><BR/>Your numbers were similarly off for the book version but of a whole different magnitude. the hardcover is listed as 3,140,114 in rank and 19,037 in rank for one paperback edition and the most recent mass market paper back edition was ranked as low as 831,139 in sales rank. to be fair one heavily discounted version did have a sales rank of 3155.<BR/><BR/>i guess i should not be surprised as i find that lax supporters are not strong in math or in truthtelling as a rule,imo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-74986684696905350682007-06-08T12:25:00.000-04:002007-06-08T12:25:00.000-04:00Regarding the privacy issue, here's a presentation...Regarding the privacy issue, here's a presentation by Legal Counsel at Virgina Tech on the inability of Virginia Tech to provide private student records. This is quite some time after the shooting occured.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:rB0CpDEHSnkJ:www.vtnews.vt.edu/documents/2007-05-21_Heidbreder.doc+cho+virginia+tech+subpoena+email&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us" REL="nofollow">Remarks to the Virginia Tech Review Panel</A><BR/><BR/><BR/>Remarks to the Virginia Tech Review Panel<BR/><BR/>By Kay Heidbreder, University Legal Counsel<BR/><BR/>May 21, 2007 <BR/><BR/>Colonel Massengill and Members of the Review Panel, if I may…… <BR/><BR/>My name is Kay Heidbreder. I serve as the University Legal Counsel and Assistant Attorney General assigned to Virginia Tech. In this capacity, I provide legal advice under the direction of the Attorney General to the University. Given my position, Dr. Steger has asked me to provide an overview of the legal mandates under which Virginia Tech operates with respect to the protection of student information. This overview is not meant to be legal advice to this panel. Rather, Dr. Steger believes that it is crucial for this Panel to have some context of the legal landscape for institutions of higher education. In addition, he has asked that my remarks center on the interplay between the Counseling Center, the student disciplinary system, faculty interaction with students and the police department. He has also asked me to share the constraints that the University faces in providing student records to the public at large. <BR/><BR/>At any institution of higher education in Virginia, there are a number of laws protecting the privacy of students and student records. These laws include The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, 20 U.S.C.A. 31232g, HIPAA 42 U.S.C. Section 1320, the Virginia Freedom of Information Act, Section 2.2-3700, Code of Virginia, as amended, and the Government Data Collection and Dissemination Practices Act, Section 32.2-3800, Code of Virginia, as amended. The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (aka FERPA or Buckley Amendment) sets forth criteria for the dissemination of information to protect a student’s rights of privacy. <BR/><BR/>The University is restricted in its ability to share a student’s educational records with third parties, external to the University, absent a properly executed release or a court order. While it is debatable whether the FERPA protections end at the student’s death, the other laws contain no such limitation. Exceptions to these non-disclosure requirements include sharing records with employees within the University who need the information to do their job. For example, an instructor can share grade information with the Registrar. However, there is never permitted a disclosure for medical or counseling records. This absolute prohibition tracks the restrictions covering disclosure of medical records as provided in HIPAA or the federal legislation that protects health information for every individual treated by a medical professional in the United States. FERPA also provides a quirky privacy provision that places a wall between the educational records at an institution and the law enforcement records maintained by the campus police department. To put this in concrete terms, educational records cannot be freely disclosed by the administrative offices with the police department. To give an example, a student is charged in the University’s disciplinary system with a violation of the acceptable use policy that prohibits sending harassing e-mails to a fellow student. The University’s hearing officer is precluded from sharing the outcome of the hearing with the campus police. Another example is that police are not informed when students are treated for psychiatric problems. In the same vein, the police are not given health information when a patient is released from a hospital. This latter example actually relates to the privacy protections contained in HIPAA. <BR/><BR/>In addition to the federal statutes, state law also restricts the University’s ability to disseminate student records. The General Assembly has articulated the privacy concerns in the Virginia Freedom of Information Act by exempting from mandatory disclosure a student’s scholastic records. While the Freedom of Information Act permits limited disclosure of records at the University’s discretion, FERPA and other state laws preclude disclosure. In particular, I would draw your attention to the Government Data Collection and Dissemination Practices Act, Section 2.2-3800 Code of Virginia, as amended. Specifically, that statute authorizes the University to collect, maintain and share information with third parties only to the extent necessary to accomplish the University’s mission of educating the student. It does not provide for unlimited disclosure in the law enforcement context to third parties. <BR/><BR/>The protections afforded by federal and state laws to the individual are most absolute in the medical context. For example, a medical screening is not part of the University’s admissions process. The Code of Virginia, Section 23-7.5, requires that each prospective student provide a health history, but this history is not all encompassing. The health history is really a listing of diseases against which the student has been immunized. The purpose of this code requirement is to guard against the potential outbreak of controlled diseases in the close confines of a residence hall. Even this modest requirement is not absolute as the General Assembly has waived the immunization requirement on a student’s religious grounds. <BR/><BR/>--------------------<BR/><BR/>As far as grabbing electronics go, they still needed a warrant to go after the data there for one of the victims.<BR/><BR/> By Brad Heath, Donna Leinwand and Alan Gomez, USA TODAY<BR/>BLACKSBURG, Va. — Police obtained search warrants Thursday for a cellphone and computer belonging to one of the first people killed at Virginia Tech as they tried to identify motives behind the shootings that left 33 people dead.<BR/><BR/>The FBI also planned to subpoena Cho Seung Hui's high school records, the school said, as it digs deeper into the background of the loner who seldom spoke, frightened teachers with his angry writings and repeatedly stalked female students online.<BR/><BR/>In the warrant application, Virginia Tech detective Stephanie Hanley said investigators wanted to examine a laptop and cellphone found in freshman Emily Hilscher's dorm room because they "would be one way the suspect could have communicated with the victim." Hilscher and another student, Ryan Clark, were killed in her dorm two hours before Cho opened fire inside Norris Hall, an engineering building. Police have not definitively linked Cho to the dorm killings <BR/><BR/>http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-04-19-vt-warrants_N.htmMichaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-31038876889809940622007-06-08T11:07:00.000-04:002007-06-08T11:07:00.000-04:00Test: Lacrosse case accuser free of controlled sub...<A HREF="http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/481323.html" REL="nofollow">Test: Lacrosse case accuser free of controlled substances</A><BR/><BR/>Given that she has exhibited the same bizarre behaviour before, one could reasonably conclude that the causality wasn't Lacrosse event specific.<BR/><BR/>She was already taking some pretty potent stuff. I believe that at least one of the drugs that she was on modified neurotransmitter activity.<BR/><BR/>My recollection on the drug testing was pretty fuzzy so it was good to go over the court and news article on this item again. The Liestoppers guys are good. You ask them for some research and you get back a bunch of links in short order.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-37753665311187888042007-06-08T09:46:00.000-04:002007-06-08T09:46:00.000-04:00> actually, American Psycho is not that well known...> actually, American Psycho is not that well known a film.<BR/>> It was not a commercial success like say, the Texas Chainsaw <BR/>> massacre or other more recent splatter films. many people are <BR/>> unfamilar with it and when the infamous email originally came <BR/>> out, people were having to explain what American psycho was <BR/>> about trying(desperately) to put it in context and to defuse <BR/>> its power. however, some things speak for themselves, loud and <BR/>> clear, especially in criminology.<BR/><BR/>A look at the Amazon.com DVD entry for American Psycho has it ranked<BR/>at 867. Gone with the Wind, in comparison, is ranked at 8,655.<BR/><BR/>A look at the Amazon.com book website for American Psycho by Ellis<BR/>shows the sales rank at a surprising 2,995. In comparison, the book An<BR/>Inconvenient Truth by Al Gore, 2007, is ranked 3,278.<BR/><BR/>For comparison, I have the book Early Intervention in Psychosis, A<BR/>Guide to Concepts, Evidence and Interventions by Birchwood, Fowler and<BR/>Jackson on my desk and its sales rank is 1,363,251 at Amazon.com.<BR/><BR/>So American Psycho appears to be more popular than your portrayal.<BR/>I'd guess that Gone with the Wind isn't terribly popular with the<BR/>younger generation though many older readers and DVD buyers would<BR/>probably express familiarity with the book and movie. And I would<BR/>say that many people are unfamiliar with Gone with the Wind. That<BR/>does not imply that it wasn't popular in its time.<BR/><BR/>> right now on CNN they are showing the MYspace and emails of the <BR/>> guy accused of killing the young girl last seen at target. they are<BR/>> reading out alot of the stuff he wrote on the web about killing<BR/>> girls and especially the daughter of a law enforcement officer.<BR/>> I guess since this is private, this is not pertinent. Yeah right.<BR/><BR/>It's obvious that critical thinking isn't one of your strong points.<BR/><BR/>If you go and create a web page or post in a public forum, guess what?<BR/>You give up your rights to privacy. If you take out an ad in the New<BR/>York Times and post personal information there, guess what? You can't<BR/>sue the New York Times for revealing your private information.<BR/><BR/>I searched Google news for articles on the police reading his emails<BR/>and didn't come up with any hits. Perhaps you could provide a link<BR/>to an article that states that they went through his email.<BR/><BR/>> If someone accused of a crime or witnesses a crime writes something<BR/>> before or immediately after the event that discusses the event, this<BR/>> is always pertinent to a criminal investigator and that is just<BR/>> criminolgy 101 as perps like to fantasize about crimes and brag after<BR/>> participating.<BR/><BR/>1) There was no crime and the police knew it.<BR/>2) Please provide a citation for your assertion. Looks more like<BR/>something that you just made up from watching too many cop shows.<BR/><BR/>> all this talk on here about it being out of context, etc, is just <BR/>> an apologia for what is perverted and consistent with criminal <BR/>> behavior.<BR/><BR/>I would appreciate a citation for this as well. If so then millions of<BR/>other readers and viewers of the book and movie should have their<BR/>emails examined by the police.<BR/><BR/>I had a look on the web for any past criminal history for Ryan and<BR/>didn't come up with anything. Perhaps you have evidence of criminal<BR/>history. I think that what's more likely is that you just like to<BR/>anonymously slander people that you're jealous of.<BR/><BR/>> this guy was no hero; just a sicko with an attraction to sexual<BR/>> violence. these guys were just lucky CGM was wasted and a toxic<BR/>> screen was not done<BR/><BR/>[When Judge Smith arrived at the end of August, Nifong knew the case<BR/>was over. The date rape drugs test came back negative, Elmo had been<BR/>acquitted, and Sixty Minutes was in town asking the hard<BR/>questions. Nifong wanted a]<BR/><BR/>I found this at LieStoppers. I have requested a source for the claim.<BR/><BR/>It appears that you think that "something happened". Cooper, with<BR/>far more access than you to private and public information, proved<BR/>that nothing happened.<BR/><BR/>> or this would have turned out differently,imo. i am still waiting<BR/>> from you guys to find out if he took the class. my contacts here at<BR/>> duke says he did not!<BR/><BR/>Given the clear popularity of the DVD and Book, I think that it<BR/>doesn't really matter if he took a class with the book at Duke.<BR/><BR/>Again, if you really feel that private email is fair game, send<BR/>me the access information to your email accounts and a disk with<BR/>your archived emails for the last 20 years. After all what have<BR/>you got to hide? Oh, that's right. You're an anonymous coward.<BR/>So you already do have something to hide.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11381497683202091939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-19296516162900817992007-06-08T09:25:00.000-04:002007-06-08T09:25:00.000-04:00nocaps --Whether or not a reader would like McFady...nocaps --<BR/><BR/>Whether or not a reader <I>would like McFadyen</I> (I probably would) or <I>approves of his American-Psycho email</I> (I do not) are trivial. <BR/><BR/>McFadyen is relevant because the Duke Administration's handling of Chauncey Nartey can be benchmarked against their treatment of him: each student wrote an email that was, at a minimum, in extremely poor taste. McFadyen was <I>suspended</I> while his letter was <I>publicized</I>. Nartey was <I>honored</I> and his letter was <I>hidden</I>.<BR/><BR/>Since you insist on sliming McFadyen, give us some context. Are you his ex-girlfriend? Part of the Group of 88? A frustrated CASTRATE banner-holder?<BR/><BR/>Since you insist on parroting a discredited and bizarre narrative, address its main fallacy: how can McFadyen's American-Psycho email speak to the party-goers' guilt or state-of-mind about The Crime when <I>the alleged felonies you reference did not take place</I>?<BR/><BR/>nocaps--you, me, and the other readers of your three comments in this thread (12:36am / 4:41pm / 2:22am) share a secret: <BR/><BR/>You are a <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll" REL="nofollow">troll.</A> "Someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding." <BR/><BR/>No further rebuttals from me. Seek help, or start your own blog for like-minded conspiracists. <BR/><BR/>Either way.AMachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08872008617279528583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-69640033471744221222007-06-08T02:22:00.000-04:002007-06-08T02:22:00.000-04:00actually, American Psycho is not that well known ...actually, American Psycho is not that well known a film. It was not a commercial success like say, the Texas Chainsaw massacre or other more recent splatter films. many people are unfamilar with it and when the infamous email originally came out, people were having to explain what American psycho was about trying(desperately) to put it in context and to defuse its power. however, some things speak for themselves, loud and clear, especially in criminology. right now on CNN they are showing the MYspace and emails of the guy accused of killing the young girl last seen at target. they are reading out alot of the stuff he wrote on the web about killing girls and especially the daughter of a law enforcement officer. I guess since this is private, this is not pertinent. Yeah right. If someone accused of a crime or witnesses a crime writes something before or immediately after the event that discusses the event, this is always pertinent to a criminal investigator and that is just criminolgy 101 as perps like to fantasize about crimes and brag after participating. all this talk on here about it being out of context, etc, is just an apologia for what is perverted and consistent with criminal behavior. this guy was no hero; just a sicko with an attraction to sexual violence. these guys were just lucky CGM was wasted and a toxic screen was not done or this would have turned out differently,imo. i am still waiting from you guys to find out if he took the class. my contacts here at duke says he did not!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-42623034576981133172007-06-07T17:37:00.000-04:002007-06-07T17:37:00.000-04:00poster 11:55pm> that's what Duke needs to hear mor...poster 11:55pm> that's what Duke needs to hear more of to change. I'm completely confident your daughter will go somewhere that is more forgiving and supportive of college student behaviour. Another drop in applications next year might bring things around. The fact that it was a unanimous decision by the presidents of all the colleges to give another year of eligibiity to the players who lost out last year, proves that in other schools> the whole event most likely would have been handled differently and had a different outcome. I think even if the schools have difficult town relationships, this one seems particularly hostile to Duke students. A reflection of poor communication with the powers that be at Duke. They have alot of work to do, maybe in a few years it will be better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-55673005306556136562007-06-06T23:55:00.000-04:002007-06-06T23:55:00.000-04:00"These are the folks your contributions to the ann..."These are the folks your contributions to the annual fund are paying for."<BR/><BR/>No I don't think so...best I recall my wife's solicitations for the annual fund, the chapel fund, and the reunion fund may have all accidentally been thrown away. <BR/><BR/>My daughter will not be completing the Duke application, with fee, this year either.<BR/><BR/>Curious how that happens...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-77781102817322440222007-06-06T23:02:00.000-04:002007-06-06T23:02:00.000-04:00Even if he didn't take the class, the movie was po...Even if he didn't take the class, the movie was popular not long ago. I'd guess that asignificant fraction of people of college age have seen it.<BR/><BR/>Also, bear in mind the circumstances of the e-mail release -- DPD knew they were framing innocents by this point as did the DA and they went before a judge and obtained permission to do the release. The e-mail didn't raise any doubts in those who knew the truth but was used to raise doubt in everyone else.<BR/><BR/><BR/>BTW, I haven't read coach Pressler's book yet, but I would be quite suprised if the "resignation" didn't go something like this:<BR/><BR/>Duke: "We think we have cause to terminate your contract are are prepared to do so. But, if you agree to resign, not to discuss the terms, and to wave any possible future legal action, we will pay out the remainder of your current contract. You should consult with a lawyer, but we need an answer right away. Sign here."<BR/><BR/>Pressler: "What choice have I got?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com