tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post5773165884221184846..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: Legal Analysis by Thomas J. Crowley, Esq.kcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-42022388793847819312006-11-20T18:58:00.000-05:002006-11-20T18:58:00.000-05:00Anon 2:35 am,
My words:
Despite whites and the U...Anon 2:35 am,<br /><br />My words:<br /><br /><i>Despite whites and the US being the first ones to abolish and illegalize slavery.</i><br /><br />Sorry for the confusion, though it states whites as in white, European nations AND the US being the first ONES to abolish slavery. Meaning whites have abolished slavery long ago while other non-white nations followed to some or no degree. Others, like black African nations continue to practice slavery to this very day.<br /><br />Shrivers work is more recent and more accurate. Also, regarding the reason of why I brought up the percent white in blacks of today goes towards the fact that others here assumed that blacks were raped with impunity in the past. That is not true, even during the slave trade days. True some were though it was not an epidemic as some would like it to be. Further, some of this admixture is due to a MUTUAL sexual relationship. And finally, we are speaking of modern rape stats which indicate hardly any white on black rapes and NOT slave day rapes. It just goes to show the weakness of the argument when one has to drudge up slave rapes to state that black women were raped.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-3239457625378245102006-11-20T02:35:00.000-05:002006-11-20T02:35:00.000-05:001. ec you need to read a history book. the first ...1. ec you need to read a history book. the first western nation to abolish slavery was England, many, many years before the US and it was secondary to the efforts of Wlberforce, a british political leader and great abolitionist. A black college was named after him because of his tireless efforts to stop slavery and the slave trade world wide.<br /><br />2.Many other works show a higher white gene penetrance than the work of Shriver. At any rate, the average white person in the US is in denial about the sexual abuse of black women in slavery so ? whether the actual percentage really matters. Witness the continued denial about the Sally Hemings-Jefferson liasion. No less than Abigail and John Adams met Sally in their lifetime when she was in Washington and Paris with Jefferson(note the nephew was not in Paris) and she appears in their journals. Sally came back pregnant from Paris and this was documented in the jefferson family bible. Yet, white scholars persist in trying to say it is impossible for Jefferson to have had a liasion with this young enslaved woman, who by the way was half white as she was the half sister of his wife as she was the product of a black slave and Jefferson's father-in-law and she was given as a wedding present to her half sister(Jefferson's wife).<br /><br /> At any rate all this is water under the bridge but this is the odious legacy that the Lax scandal brings up and it resonates with a lot of blacks in a negative manner.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-77942863575236944372006-11-19T14:46:00.000-05:002006-11-19T14:46:00.000-05:00I am embarassed to be a Duke graduate and shudder ...I am embarassed to be a Duke graduate and shudder at the thought that idiots like Crowley are teaching at what I once thought was a great university. I hate to say it but I am going to encourage my children to go elsewhere.<br /><br />Shame on you, Mr. Crowley.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-76592858292697612092006-11-18T14:17:00.000-05:002006-11-18T14:17:00.000-05:00doubt it, but in the US black-white children are i...doubt it, but in the US black-white children are invariably the product of a black father and a not too bright white mother (see nicole simpson)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-11009001210803855292006-11-18T09:14:00.000-05:002006-11-18T09:14:00.000-05:00To 4:43am:
Are most interracial children from the ...To 4:43am:<br />Are most interracial children from the dawn of time the product of rape?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-27470439658242406232006-11-18T07:38:00.000-05:002006-11-18T07:38:00.000-05:00Anon 4:43 continues to beat the Afrocentric drum o...Anon 4:43 continues to beat the Afrocentric drum of slavery and how this will never be forgotten nor forgiven. Despite whites and the US being the first ones to abolish and illegalize slavery. And despite the fact that slavery continues to exist in Africa today by blacks enslaving other blacks. His/her ramblings are no different than the garbage that has been spewed forth by the race hustlers in this case.<br /><br />As to the raping of black women by white men. Again, the sins of the slave masters is paraded forth to continue to instill guilt on ALL white people. I do not recall ever owning a slave, though we'll leave that for now. When genetic black/white admixture has been critically looked at, again, different data came out than what was truly expected. <br /><br /><i>Among self-identified whites in Shriver's sample, the average black admixture is only 0.7 percent. That's the equivalent of having among your 128 great-great-great-great-great-grandparents (who lived around two centuries ago), 127 whites and one black.<br /><br />It appears that 70 percent of whites have no African ancestors. Among the 30 percent who do, the black admixture is around 2.3 percent, which would be like having about three black ancestors out of those 128.<br /><br />In contrast, African-Americans are much more racially mixed than European-Americans. Yet, Shriver's study shows that they are less European that was previously believed.<br /><br />Earlier, cruder studies, done before direct genetic testing was feasible, suggested that African-Americans were 25 or even 30 percent white. Shriver's project is not complete, but with data from 25 sites already in, he is coming up with 17-18 percent white ancestry among African-Americans. That's the equivalent of 106 of those 128 of your ancestors from seven generations ago having been Africans and 22 Europeans.</i><br /><br />http://www.isteve.com/2002_How_White_Are_Blacks.htm<br /><br />History and slavery aside, the data by the FBI and DOJ gives the CURRENT rape stats as essentially NO white on black rapes. Those are the facts as we know them NOW and what is happening NOW. We of today do not have control of what may or may not have happened 6 generations ago or longer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-8811103971246948612006-11-18T07:09:00.000-05:002006-11-18T07:09:00.000-05:00DNA evidence does not show Thomas Jefferson father...DNA evidence does not show Thomas Jefferson fathered black children as <b>anonymous 4:43 AM</b> says, only that either Jefferson or a close relative did.<br /><br />I bring this up as an example of how even "scientific experts" let their agendas get in the way of the facts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-82414684926644938692006-11-18T04:43:00.000-05:002006-11-18T04:43:00.000-05:00i would like to thank the 7:55pm poster who commen...i would like to thank the 7:55pm poster who commented on the real history of black woman-white man rape in the US. american blacks are lighter than those in africa and genetic studies show lots of european bloodlines in american blacks as well as native american bloodlines. These are just objective proofs of what the history culled from slave narratives, historians, and black family traditions has said: that during slavery that white men raped and fathered children with black women in large numbers as they had the access and the power to do so and there were no repurcussions. Thomas Jefferson was not an isolated case; many white slaveowners had black children. the infamous house negroes were often related to the white master and his family and were frequently the lightest of the slaves and they were treated better than the slaves not related to the family. the next were the yard children,who might be darker and not as directly related but where still more tied with the master's family. the yard children were often artisans like carpenters, the carriage driver, etc. then came the darkest and most mistreated group, the field slaves. the children of these black-white liasons were either made house or yard servants or were sold to other whites. more rarely, they sometimes were freed on the death of the white master and given some money so there were some free blacks before the civil war, especially in Louisiana, which had a French influence rather than the more racial separtist English influence like the rest of the US. <br /><br /> Please note that the masters were aware of the hardships of slavery yet contiuned it: many of the masters who freed their offspring wrote they did so so"no other white man will own my children" for fear that they might be mistreated. the black colleges were founded after the civil war largely to educate the mixed race children of the white masters. Booker T Washington founding Tuskegee Institute with money his white father gave to him is the most famous example but the other schools have similar stories. If you ever look at an old black college yearbook in the years after the civil war, you will see mostly mixed race people. <br /><br />For anyone to say that white men do not rape black women because they do not find them attractive is ridiculous and does not know the real history of the southern united states. documented white male rape went down after the official segregation era began because of differences in access to black women etc but there was still problems with this particular crime, especially in hate crimes. often, the kkk would castrate and lynch the black man after they raped and/or killed his female relatives. The last documented lynching in Duplin county Nc(near Durham ) was because of this type of situation. a white man raped and beat a black girl and her father warned him to never go near their farm again after the sheriff refused to bring charges(white men were never punished or admonished for these type of offenses as the black woman had no right to complain). the father came in from the fields and caught the man once more trying to rape another of his young daughters after beating her. the black father took justice into his own hands and decapitated the white man. the black man was picked up by the sheriff and on the way to the jail was lynched and castrated and his body burnt about 2 hours later. That happened in the 1930's. <br /><br />for anyone to argue that the current crime statistics "prove" that white men simply do not rape black women,etc is ridiculous. history shows that they raped them a lot when they had the oppurtunity. what the crime statistics show now is the lack of oppurtunity to comment said crime. That is also why this alleged crime pushes so many buttons in durham. the black community remembers some of that past and the allegations about racial epithets and "thank you for my cotton shirt" were things that smacked of that plantation rape/lynching mentatlity. please note all contemporary blacks know this history; even our very worst curse word: m-----f------r, reflects that slave legacy. m-----f----r derived from the original mother raper, an epithet that slave blacks gave the white slave master. that is why the durham blacks were so outraged when they heard about this alleged crime. it brought that hideous past up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-35358749043311602432006-11-17T22:41:00.000-05:002006-11-17T22:41:00.000-05:00I agree with 6:32. Ours is a system based on prec...I agree with 6:32. Ours is a system based on precedent, and if Nifong continues to get away with this nonsense, he emboldens other prosecutors to follow his act.<br /><br />There is no doubt in my mind that the very groups calling for trial and conviction, like the NAACP and others, would take a very different look if the races were reversed. By the way, I would HOPE the NAACP and others (like the ACLU, which decided to take a powder here) would look seriously at the prosecutorial misconduct.<br /><br />That is part of the tragedy and hypocrisy of this case. And that is why the bloggers have attacked this case with a vengeance. It deserves to be attacked, and Nifong deserves to be the human pinata that he has become. Swing away!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-60284513901659483842006-11-17T18:32:00.000-05:002006-11-17T18:32:00.000-05:00No one starts a campaign to recall the prosecutor ...No one starts a campaign to recall the prosecutor when a weak case is brought against a black defendant. But when there are rich white kids in the line of fire its a totally different story.<br /><br />It only takes one or two people to start a campaign as was the case with the Recall Nifong campaign. If someone feels strongly about something they can do something constructive, or not.<br /><br />If the racial roles were reversed in this case don't you think the Justice Department, AG, Governor, NAACP, etc. would be all over this case DEMANDING the case be thrown out? Do you believe the public would have stood still while the DA discussed the facts of the case with the KKK or a radical/racial white woman -- while not speaking to the black defendents lawyers or anyone else who might present exculpatory evidence??<br /><br />Just as this case hurts future rape victims, in the end, the fact that AA sat back and allowed this to happen to their justice system will hurt them too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-57733224116390320202006-11-17T15:08:00.000-05:002006-11-17T15:08:00.000-05:00mediocrites usually comment on esoterica like capi...mediocrites usually comment on esoterica like capitalization<br /><br />i'm sure u like oprah, and think bill clinton is a genius<br /><br />stupid PPL have it made--the fat O is on in 50 min<br /><br />Fetch!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-11980418691273125462006-11-17T14:59:00.000-05:002006-11-17T14:59:00.000-05:00One would think staying abreast of the publicly av...One would think staying abreast of the publicly available information about the case would be as much of a compulsion for the profs and admin at Duke as it is for us, especially if one intended to comment publicly on the case. "Staying abreast of the case" is not very easy or maybe even possible without knowledge of this blog site, Liestoppers and a few others. I do not believe the normal media outlets have been in any way sufficient for a thorough understanding of the case. Not only that, understanding the important details requires considerable investment of time, something Prof Crowley has clearly been unable/unwilling to make. He has a lot of work to do if he hopes to participate intelligently in this discussion. His careless, unfounded comments strike me as unethical and, really, outright immoral...a violation of that commandment not to bear false witness. He shares that distinction with a number of his fellow faculty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-47646718520588694912006-11-17T13:45:00.000-05:002006-11-17T13:45:00.000-05:00PPL THAT TYPE IN ALL CAPS ARE USUALLY OVER 70...
...PPL THAT TYPE IN ALL CAPS ARE USUALLY OVER 70...<br /><br />ONSET OF SENILITY?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-16124105812566786742006-11-17T12:34:00.000-05:002006-11-17T12:34:00.000-05:00"abolish racial...gender studies"
i wrote that--f..."abolish racial...gender studies"<br /><br />i wrote that--funny how my critics didn't comment on a specific application--ie, firing overpaid doofuses like Houston Baker<br /><br />as to the other "racist" comments, which i didn't post: if the US were to become half black, it would cease to exist--race does matter, sad to say<br /><br />MODERATOR: i've stated elsewhere that something should be done to punish "false accusers"--suggest you start a thread with this: Affirmed, false accusers are rapists. Let's punish them like rapists."<br /><br />jim clyneAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86394880088176603882006-11-17T11:36:00.000-05:002006-11-17T11:36:00.000-05:00"No one starts a campaign to recall the prosecutor..."No one starts a campaign to recall the prosecutor when a weak case is brought against a black defendant. But when there are rich white kids in the line of fire its a totally different story. I think a lot of Black people see that as fundamentally unfair."<br /><br />I agree with the 1:30am poster except that the above quote is only true since people don't know about the weakness of other cases. If, on the other hand, the prosecutor went after a group of black kids saying things such as "I'm not going to let Durham be known as a town where black kids can rape a white woman and get away with it." (along with the many other crazy things that he said), then I think a similar outcry would indeed take place if there was no evidence to support the indictments. Nifong started his own little war, and after it is finished, the true victims will be those that have fought alongside him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-52050013506626089462006-11-17T11:32:00.000-05:002006-11-17T11:32:00.000-05:00hueofblue,
Those comments you quoted are certainl...hueofblue,<br /><br />Those comments you quoted are certainly not PC, though no more racist than much of what has come out towards whites in general and the Duke 3 specifically. The third one is the most shakey, while the others are less so. The last one, namely:<br /><br /><i>"... abolish racial, ethnic and gender studies (low iq studies)"</i><br /><br />I fully agree with. Those areas of study are havens of racism and sexism. Anti-white racism and anti-male sexism. <br /><br />I also think you are being too altruistic in your assessment of the racial dynamics though that is not an argument for here and I fully respect your views on it, even though I do not agree. Let us simply agree to disagree here and leave it at that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-37411447147322514672006-11-17T10:51:00.000-05:002006-11-17T10:51:00.000-05:00Amen, 10:17.Amen, 10:17.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-77445090415093842612006-11-17T10:17:00.000-05:002006-11-17T10:17:00.000-05:00Crowley reminds me of the old proverb "It’s better...Crowley reminds me of the old proverb "It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-91592212411375089212006-11-17T10:09:00.000-05:002006-11-17T10:09:00.000-05:00This may seem too obvious, but when anyone feels c...This may seem too obvious, but when anyone feels compelled to write ugly comments like those quoted by huesofblue, try googling "slave narratives" or read Frederick Douglass' Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass. These ghosts will haunt all of us for years to come. No wonder it burned Cash Michaels and other members of the Black community to the depths of their souls to see the video of the "dancers" at the infamous party. (I assume everyone saw the Liestoppers post this week). Aren't we all struggling to rise above our histories. That said, the country cannot allow to go unasnswered Mr. Nifong's attempt to exploit that history and scapegoat three people blatently innocent of the crimes with which they are charged. Every step Mr. Nifong advances in this case is just as galling to those of us who appreciate the nature and scope of Mr. Nifong's misdeeds as the "dancing" video clip was to Mr. Michaels.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-65269387631433065932006-11-17T09:55:00.000-05:002006-11-17T09:55:00.000-05:00Race does matter, evidence does not, no matter ric...Race does matter, evidence does not, no matter rich or poor. I don't like it, I don't condone some of the post, either way. But all one has to do is look at OJ's new book, "If I did it" to tell that yes race does matter and not evidence. Could you imagine the up roar if the three kids after being found not guilty wrote a book like that. That is OJ laughing all the way to the bank.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-14390417753246955212006-11-17T09:49:00.000-05:002006-11-17T09:49:00.000-05:00What is Crowley talking about. Some of the best l...What is Crowley talking about. Some of the best legal minds, forensic experts, Constitutional exsperts and experts who study corruption in public office have commented on this case all stating that the evidence clearly points to not only innocence but that the accuser's story is false. Nothing happened. These young men's Constitutional rights have been trampled, and Nifong is as corrupt as they come and he is throwing it in the face of good society. Mr Crowley is a big boob. Not even worth the effort to try and figure out his rambling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-5154854561234573692006-11-17T08:23:00.000-05:002006-11-17T08:23:00.000-05:00I could not agree more with the poster from 1:30 A...I could not agree more with the poster from 1:30 AM (even I am in bed at that time). While people have tried to say this case is not about race, that simply is untrue. This case IS about race, and that is what is driving it toward a tragic end.<br /><br />I would disagree with one point, and that is what was written regarding the desire of people in Durham to see innocent people go to prison. It is my observation that the people there don't care, and if Chan Hall is representative of the attitude there, they would be happy to see innocent people convicted because it would give them a sense of revenge.<br /><br />How else does one explain the fact that activists there have explained away all of the mountain of exculpatory evidence by employing conspiracy theories? From Victoria Peterson's "they tamped with the DNA" to the claim that the Platinum Club employees all were "paid off" by the defense, we see people who openly are saying that they do not wish to be confused with facts.<br /><br />Furthermore, if the accuser were naming black men as the "rapists," I suspect that most if not all of the blacks in Durham would see through the lies that have been told.<br /><br />So, unless I am convinced otherwise, it is my contention that the people there would be all-too-happy to see innocent people incarcerated, as long as it fit their views of revenge.<br /><br />I do understand the sense of resentment, from the recall election to the fact that all of the defendants were able to post $400,000 bond.<br /><br />(It is a good thing they did, because I am positive that Nifong would have tried to employ the "jumping on the bus" tactic, in which a defendant is placed in a cell with someone else. Later, that person testifies in court that the defendant admitted to all of the charges. Both state and federal prosecutors are notorious for this tactic.)<br /><br />I also would say that the black ministers in Durham have acted disgracefully. Instead of looking for truth, they are promoting lies at the top of their lungs.<br /><br />Bill AndersonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-55781715879307379852006-11-17T07:51:00.000-05:002006-11-17T07:51:00.000-05:00To huesofblue,
Those are very good points. We ...To huesofblue,<br /> Those are very good points. We keep hearing about prosecutorial abuse against black defendants. I am certain it happened in the past and may be happening now. I have asked Cash Michaels (who did not respond) and now I ask you for examples of current or recent cases where black defendants have been treated like the Duke Three. I do believe quite a lot of us are intently focused on this case and happily would let other similarly situated defendants share the benefit (to the extent there is any) of our outrage. Someone has to bring these cases to the attention of the public, though, before we can rally on behalf of the unjustly accused. I think we all agree prosecutorial misconduct poisons our justice system and disgusts most citizens. <br /> Although other injustices have no doubt gone unremarked, I am personally not aware of another case in our history that has moved forward on the basis of such flimsy probative evidence and such a volume of exculpatory evidence. Even the dreadful Scottsboro case began with what I would consider much stronger evidence than we currently have against the Duke Three.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-63196009982428030102006-11-17T01:30:00.000-05:002006-11-17T01:30:00.000-05:00EC,
You're entitled to your opinion, but I still ...EC,<br /><br />You're entitled to your opinion, but I still think more harm than good is done when a thread gets cluttered with statments like these:<br /><br />"what this "case" is really about is how dangerous it is for whites and asians to live among a morally corrupt underclass--THAT'S THE WHOLE STORY"<br /><br />OR<br /><br />"can anyone begin to imagine what the US would be like if it were half black?" <br /><br />OR<br /><br />"what the poster really wanted to point out, though it is a taboo subject, is that white men (and asian men) find black women unattractive"<br /><br />OR<br /><br />"... abolish racial, ethnic and gender studies (low iq studies)"<br /><br />These comments are inflammitory, and reek of not so thinly veiled racism.<br /><br />Here's my honest opinion about why the Black people of Durham have rallied around Nifong: It's not because they want to see innocent people go to jail, or because they just hate white people with all their hearts. I think the real reasons lie in a deeply rooted distrust of the justice system. I think the OJ and Michael Jackson trials sent a loud and clear message to the Black community that with a good enough lawyer and enough money, you can get away with murder. So it's not surprising that there's significant scepticism about the exculpatory evidence pointing to the players' innocence, when its being offered by high priced defense lawyers. Especially when, in the minds of a lot of black people in Durham, a white prosecutor simply wouldn't go after three rich white kids for no reason. The thought is that Nifong must have something, he's just no match for the well funded defense team. <br /><br />There's also the fact that black people have been disproportionatly on the receiving end of Nifong style justice for as long as anyone can remeber - especially in the south. While you might think that would make them sympathetic to the Duke three, I think there's a certain sentiment that it's only "fair" for the Duke three to experience the same thing. No one starts a campaign to recall the prosecutor when a weak case is brought against a black defendant. But when there are rich white kids in the line of fire its a totally different story. I think a lot of Black people see that as fundamentally unfair. So even if the players are innocent, they want them to have to prove it at trial the same way a poor black defendant would have to (provided they weren't cajoled into pleading to a lesser crime, which is how most weak cases are ultimately disposed of; especially if the defendant has any criminal past). <br /><br />I'm aware that there are a lot of major flaws in what I just described, but I think it's more realistic than saying "Blacks just want to get whitey" or implying that every white or asian person in a city with a large black population is in constant danger of a false prosecution. That's just not true. Atlanta and New Orleans are both major cities with huge Black populations. We haven't seen a rash of false prosecutions against whites or black on white hate crimes there. And I doubt we will in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-68632699238684614122006-11-16T22:45:00.000-05:002006-11-16T22:45:00.000-05:00huesofblue,
But fanning the flames of that animos...huesofblue,<br /><br /><i>But fanning the flames of that animosity isn't going to do the players or anyone else much good.</i><br /><br />I am not the 9:30 commenter though would like to address your point above. I do not think I, or others here, are fanning the flames. That would be Nifong and his race hustling enablers like the local media and the NAACP that have been fanning those racial animosity flames from the start. From my perspective, it is important to understand the information that is available and why things are the way they are. Ignoring it will never lead to understanding nor solution, in my opinion. Also being afraid to discuss it for fear of being called "racist" is again accepting defeat at the hands of these same race hustlers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com