tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post5816199070567019900..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: Broverman Clarifieskcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger128125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-3078207072550281692007-04-17T02:01:00.000-04:002007-04-17T02:01:00.000-04:00She is really being taken to tsk at the Duke Chron...She is really being taken to tsk at the Duke Chronicle - and deserves it - Has not published anything since 1995 - Is it really worth for these women to come out of the woodwordk and trash these fine young men? Collin - London School of Economics 0 hope you wind up at Chicago getting an MBA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-6065071378752234522007-04-15T17:12:00.000-04:002007-04-15T17:12:00.000-04:00Broverman is now the +1 in the G88+1. She has the...Broverman is now the +1 in the G88+1. She has the added distinction of being either so stupid or so out of touch to publicly take an indefensable and revealing position on this sad affair at this late date.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The press probably found her by looking for faculty affiliated w/ an Angry Studies dept. who was not in the G88. She was set up, but exposing her was a public service. She has earned the condemnation that has come her way.<BR/><BR/>Note that this is the result of a diversity hire. She is clearly not qualified for her position, at least on merit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-19999884756566503582007-04-15T15:19:00.000-04:002007-04-15T15:19:00.000-04:00Yes, womens rights are trampled all over the world...Yes, womens rights are trampled all over the world, but not in the USA. Why are the folk who are so concerned about WR over in the sand countries trying to help real women who are abused. They are to afaid to confront the crazy men who would kill them in a heartbeat.<BR/>BTW, how did the paper find Boverman? Did she call them - its not like she has a high profile reputation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-25801143461235206742007-04-15T13:58:00.000-04:002007-04-15T13:58:00.000-04:00Here is the thread in the Chronicle.Here is the thread in the <A HREF="http://www.dukechronicle.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticleComments&ustory_id=4e48c642-8a02-4809-9b32-b61c93fcbec6&startRow=51" REL="nofollow">Chronicle</A>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-16522706212099397402007-04-15T13:33:00.000-04:002007-04-15T13:33:00.000-04:00Sad to say, but Jamiel Husseinis right about this ...Sad to say, but Jamiel Hussein<BR/>is right about this one.<BR/><BR/>I guess some people who want<BR/>this to be a Republican <BR/>(and therefore not a Democratic)<BR/>event have had their own goose-<BR/>stepping toes stomped, once the AG<BR/>made everything Crystal-clear. <BR/><BR/>One of the things I have admired<BR/>about most of the posts, BTW,<BR/>is the fact that so many people<BR/>of all spectra - conservative<BR/>and libertarian - have seen the<BR/>Hoax for what it is: a calumny,<BR/>perpetuated by left-wing idealogues, instigated by racists<BR/>and motivated by those who had <BR/>personal gain in mind.<BR/><BR/>MacAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-24035863326654500682007-04-15T12:06:00.001-04:002007-04-15T12:06:00.001-04:00You say "Let us not forget that it was the Republi...<I>You say "Let us not forget that it was the Republicans with their war on crime that created Mike Nifong and Scott Harshberger (</I><BR/><BR/>WTF?? No mention of Karl Rove or George W Bush? There is cure for BDS?<BR/><BR/>Let's face it: Nifonf (D-corrupt) tried to win democratic primaries. Democrats have absolute control in Durham. Governor and AG (who enabled the hoax) are democrats. All community activists, potbangers, Gang88 racists and outside professional racists (Al/Jesse/Black Panthers) are part of the democratic party.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-43748204607642468612007-04-15T12:06:00.000-04:002007-04-15T12:06:00.000-04:00You say "Let us not forget that it was the Republi...<I>You say "Let us not forget that it was the Republicans with their war on crime that created Mike Nifong and Scott Harshberger (</I><BR/><BR/>WTF?? No mention of Karl Rove or George W Bush? There is cure for BDS?<BR/><BR/>Let's face it: Nifonf (D-corrupt) tried to win democratic primaries. Democrats have absolute control in Durham. Governor and AG (who enabled the hoax) are democrats. All community activists, potbangers, Gang88 racists and outside professional racists (Al/Jesse/Black Panthers) are part of the democratic party.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-45012717884499262582007-04-15T10:19:00.000-04:002007-04-15T10:19:00.000-04:00How were her words twisted by Newday? Did you read...How were her words twisted by Newday? Did you read her "clarification?" It appears to me she says nearly the same thing in her clarification she told Newsday. She agrees with Cooper dropping charges if there is insufficient evidence to proceed. Does she even once mentions that in fact there is not just "insufficient evidence to procced," but Cooper said these defendants were innocent? I don't think so. What is so different in her clarification from what is reported by Newsday?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-21626354433084126802007-04-15T09:46:00.000-04:002007-04-15T09:46:00.000-04:00Broverman said --"Looking at how Nifong handled th...Broverman said --<BR/><BR/>"Looking at how Nifong handled the case, 'the experiment didn't work' and one can't conclude anything. Listening to AG Cooper this afternoon, I accept that the data does not support the hypothesis, which in real life means that charges should be dropped."<BR/><BR/>Broverman gets herself into trouble by thinking of what Nifong was doing in any way, shape or form is comparable to an experiment. Experiments of the type commented upon by Broverman are based on the scientific method with certain control factors built in. In Nifong's case there were never any controls. He simply made up the "data" as he went along, ignoring or changing inconvenient facts to suit his purposes. When she says "the experiment didn't work", is she implying that the experiment Nifong was conducting consisted of trying to prove he could railroad 3 innocent men into jail for a crime they didn't commit by lying and manipulation? And that because it didn't work, we can conclude nothing? <BR/><BR/>Broverman gets back on track in the next sentence, however. This case was nothing about an experiment that didn't work and everything about data not supporting the hypothesis, so Nifong's hoax (not experiment) didn't work and from that we can reach many conclusions. Broverman ultimately and correctly concluded that Cooper's position was valid.<BR/><BR/>One point that should be pointed out is to look at the source for Broverman's comments -- NEWSDAY. This rag has been putting out anti-LAX pieces from the beginning and as recently as a hatchet job from Marcus just a few days ago. This appears to be another slimy attempt to support the metanarrative of privileged, white male athletes by twisting Broverman's words. I hope Broverman learned a valuable lesson. When anyone from publications like Newsday come calling for a comment, hang up the phone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-83648822097568503972007-04-15T09:44:00.000-04:002007-04-15T09:44:00.000-04:00Hey Kevin 9:07, You say "Let us not forget that it...Hey Kevin 9:07, <BR/>You say "Let us not forget that it was the Republicans with their war on crime that created Mike Nifong and Scott Harshberger (Amirault case in Massachusetts) By giving the Prosecutor unlimited powers, they have totally undermined all of our civil rights." If your premise were true, then this would be true in all 50 states. The war on crime was a Federal program.<BR/><BR/>I am familiar with NY , where such a hoax could not get pulled off by any DA. The black racists tried the opposite tact with Tawana Brawley and even that didn't work, in part because of the criminal procedure law that is in place. To begin, there is a written record of all NY grand jury minutes, In most cases, suspects have the right to appear and testify before the Grand Jury in which they are known suspects. It is also required they be notified of this right. <BR/><BR/>There is plenty of blame to go around for this mess, but trying to blame the Republicans is ludicrous. In NC it was the Democratic voters in a Democratic state who elected Democratic representatives who passed the bills and a Democratic Governor who signed them into law. Come to think of it, same situation in Mass. So one could argue that we should blame the Democrats! Neither party is at fault for this. Politicians make the rules to the best of their abilities, but it is vermin like Nifong in both parties that manipulate them. <BR/><BR/>The main reason that Nifong was facing charges from the NC Bar before the criminal rape case was completed was because the lawyers feared a push for more oversight regulation if they continued to do nothing. <BR/><BR/>If you must blame politics, blame the “Old Boy” network or the fact that blacks vote as a block for Democrats. In NC it destroyed any possibility for checks and balances. <BR/><BR/>JimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-73970321329133915192007-04-15T09:16:00.000-04:002007-04-15T09:16:00.000-04:008:03 is right, for all thosewho keep holding the b...8:03 is right, for all those<BR/>who keep holding the belief<BR/>that there might be evidence,<BR/>but it hasn't been discovered.<BR/><BR/>It's like a pharmaceutical<BR/>company in Great Britain which<BR/>was testing TGN 1412, a so-called<BR/>"super-antibody" drug. <BR/>Let's say the test results were<BR/>described like this:<BR/><BR/>The test of TGN 1412 did not<BR/>have the desired results, and<BR/>it is possible that the test<BR/>subjects were unduly stressed<BR/>by the reaction to the drug.<BR/>More testing is needed.<BR/><BR/>(Note: that is NOT what they<BR/>said, just to be clear)<BR/><BR/>In fact, the test subjects<BR/>- (all except the placebo-guy) -<BR/>had horrific reactions, from <BR/>elephant-man-like symnptoms to cancer (which killed the fellow)<BR/>and extreme pain - (like the kind<BR/>of pain some people might choose <BR/>for Mr. NoFang.) Trust me, you <BR/>wouldn't want anyone have this<BR/>kind of experience.<BR/><BR/>Point is, the hypothetical<BR/>explanation for the horribly<BR/>failed drug test, the one<BR/>in which "more testing is <BR/>needed," is very similar to<BR/>the words of those who think<BR/>the boys ought to be subjected<BR/>to more doubt, more derision,<BR/>more "testing."<BR/><BR/>Dr. Broverman should read this<BR/>analogy - she doubtless has<BR/>seen the HGN results - and <BR/>understand that what the boys<BR/>need is for a clear answer<BR/>from people like herself, not<BR/>measured responses to her<BR/>own measured responses,<BR/>which only perpetuate the boys'<BR/>pain.<BR/><BR/>Please, Dr. Broverman: just<BR/>say that the boys are innocent.<BR/><BR/>MacAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-53878015814604722402007-04-15T08:03:00.000-04:002007-04-15T08:03:00.000-04:00JUNK SCIENCE!!! As a PH.D. in Chemistry, and a res...JUNK SCIENCE!!! As a PH.D. in Chemistry, and a researcher for twenty years, I can tell you that good science involves drawing an hypothesis often from confliciting data. THE DATA IS THERE, and Broverman chooses not to believe it. And moreover, you don't need to be a PH.D. to figure out that NOTHING HAPPENED THAT NIGHT. Broverman is clearly not objective about this and is using science as a smoke screen to hide her stupid, personal feelings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-36201111869617950922007-04-15T04:04:00.000-04:002007-04-15T04:04:00.000-04:00Dr. Broverman seems unclear on the notion of "fals...Dr. Broverman seems unclear on the notion of "falsifiable hypothesis." I'm not a scientist, but I understand that little concept as basic. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps she should not use science as a source for her analogies?<BR/><BR/>Second, that editorial apology by the female sports writer was profoundly welcome. It's the first full, frank, open apology I've read, and it comforts me to see it.<BR/><BR/>DiannaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-27527003585393421762007-04-15T01:55:00.000-04:002007-04-15T01:55:00.000-04:00a late comment on this topic: broverman states in ...a late comment on this topic: broverman states in her "apology" that she was unaware that charges were expected to be dropped when she made the comments for newsday. what vacuum was she living in? as a duke professor, she either should have been on top of such a pertinent topic or been willing to state that she had not been following the case and had no comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-45093409234408593892007-04-14T23:48:00.000-04:002007-04-14T23:48:00.000-04:0011:10I've already answered your question:In additi...11:10<BR/><BR/>I've already answered your question:<BR/><BR/>In addition to race affirmative action, there is gender affirmative action for women. The preference given to white women, while not as huge as that bestowed on blacks, is substantial.<BR/><BR/>A good example of this is Sandra Day O'Connor's appointment to the Supreme Court. If she had been male, they would have laughed her out of the Senate at her confirmation hearing.<BR/><BR/>PolanskiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-7054100626293639352007-04-14T23:12:00.000-04:002007-04-14T23:12:00.000-04:00I am surprised this dope thought exposure of her l...I am surprised this dope thought exposure of her lack of publishing (I thought this was a job requirement)was worth it to enter this debate. Particularly, after a three month investigation declares the boys innocent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-16497215703486117332007-04-14T23:10:00.000-04:002007-04-14T23:10:00.000-04:00Nobody here has provided a convincing reason was B...Nobody here has provided a convincing reason was Broverman was hired at Duke in the first place.<BR/><BR/>She got a first-rate post-doc b/o her names on few good papers.<BR/><BR/>then she fell off the map (likely because he flopped as a post-doc) and couldn't hack science (hey, it happens)<BR/><BR/>But then is hired as a professor at duke five years later with NO academic productivity.<BR/><BR/>That must be cronyism.<BR/><BR/>Who does she know? Who was she sleeping with?<BR/><BR/>(Sorry to be so blunt)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-22304650003589999292007-04-14T22:59:00.000-04:002007-04-14T22:59:00.000-04:00KC, you seem to give the professor a pass. Perhaps...KC, you seem to give the professor a pass. Perhaps you are giving her the benfit of the doubt in hopes she is a bit more clear in the near future ? It is clear to me in her email that she has trouble with word innocent, and that the conclusion of the AG was not that the case did not have enough evidence, it did, enough evidence to conclude the charges were indeed false. <BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/>respectfully,<BR/>BDayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-5864822476585976122007-04-14T22:57:00.001-04:002007-04-14T22:57:00.001-04:00FUCK THIS--LET'S GET REAL:THE BOYS AREN'T INNOCENT...FUCK THIS--LET'S GET REAL:<BR/><BR/>THE BOYS AREN'T INNOCENT--THEY ARE CRIME VICTIMS!<BR/><BR/>By arguing their "innocence," you're playing into the pro-parasitism contingent's argument. This brutal beast--this Precious Panties--almost succeeded in destroying the lives of 3 innocents--and guess what?<BR/><BR/>Youe blog administrator sees no reason to punish this repulsive lowlife. Putting up with Precious Panties is the price you have to pay to live in "harmony" with black people.<BR/><BR/>That's the agenda--the brutal fart that knows not its own name.<BR/><BR/>PolanskiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-73018922485619308242007-04-14T22:57:00.000-04:002007-04-14T22:57:00.000-04:00Until now my experience with the concept of parall...Until now my experience with the concept of parallel university has been via the literature. Now, I've got a real member talking to me here and I am rather enjoying the opportunity to learn from the good professor. <BR/><BR/>I guess you can't belong to this parallel universe if you believe in ...innocent until proven guilty.<BR/><BR/>Or perhaps, innocence is not a concept at all. <BR/><BR/>Interesting. How much does it cost to join? Are their dues? A national organization? <BR/><BR/>GPGary Packwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05177986821224068759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-43567017712769945752007-04-14T22:56:00.000-04:002007-04-14T22:56:00.000-04:00While I agree with everything Broverman says I am ...While I agree with everything Broverman says I am still puzzled. Why when given a question in this format and at this time wouldn’t you give a simple answer like I’m glad they are innocent and I wish they hadn’t gone through hell?<BR/><BR/>There was no need to complicate that message and Broverman should have been bright enough to match her message to the medium and time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-41441987454572552902007-04-14T22:55:00.000-04:002007-04-14T22:55:00.000-04:00I think I have this figured out. They want a menti...I think I have this figured out. They want a mention in the book. Please KC, put them in under others. What is Boverman's CV?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-68310174244800455502007-04-14T22:52:00.000-04:002007-04-14T22:52:00.000-04:00KT 9:57 and Jack 9:18Read both your appreciated co...KT 9:57 and Jack 9:18<BR/><BR/>Read both your appreciated comments. I want to make clear I am responding to Professor Broderman’s e-mail to KC Johnson and not her original statement to Newsday. When you say it is not an apology, I ask you to take into account the following comments by Pr. Broderman:<BR/><BR/>-I made the mistake of trying to provide a nuanced commentary on the difficulty of prosecuting rape in general.<BR/>- I think all of us would also agree that "normal legal procedures" did not happen under Nifong's leadership!<BR/>-Do I want the students to be guilty? Of course not<BR/>-Do I wish the lack of evidence had been acknowledged last spring? Absolutely! Who doesn't?<BR/>-However, I still maintain that rape is hard to prosecute, and that IN GENERAL lack of evidence does not mean a crime was not committed. However, I did not mean to suggest that I thought these students should be prosecuted.<BR/>-Listening to AG Cooper this afternoon, I accept that the data does not support the hypothesis, which in real life means that charges should be dropped.<BR/><BR/>Is this a full apology. No. I agree with many of the other bloggers. The words, INNOCENT, should have been used. However, it is a damm sight better than any of the group of 88 is expected to say, and we should appreciate that, in the interest of having more of the Duke faculty coming forth on behalf of Collin, Reade, and Dave, and of all of our civil rights.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08469360693186623373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-82960132699753528732007-04-14T22:46:00.000-04:002007-04-14T22:46:00.000-04:00How come this biology teacher does not understand ...How come this biology teacher does not understand DNA, while those of us who watch or read about crime have a good inkling of what it is about? Not like Brad Bannon of course, but something. Another sad day for Duke. Anyone hear from Everett since his rape shield defense was shot down?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-60251272306767172882007-04-14T22:45:00.000-04:002007-04-14T22:45:00.000-04:00OMG, Why can't people understand the word innoce...OMG,<BR/> Why can't people understand the word innocent !! It is way beyond we did not have enough evidence to prosecute or there was not enough evidence to move forward. <BR/> The AG concluded decisively that NONE of the allegations were true. For those simple minded people like professor Braveless, that means the woman in question (and we know you know who that is) LIED.<BR/> If she wants to debate the prosecution of rapes in general that's fine, but if one wishes to do that with the Duke case in the same context, it is best to be clear, the 3 men are and have always been innocent of the charges and the woman who accused them LIED (did I say that already?). <BR/><BR/>BdayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com