tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post8498363047172094476..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: Wiser Stillkcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-3373899517649804322007-05-30T10:21:00.000-04:002007-05-30T10:21:00.000-04:00With regard to sports reporters, by the way, it's ...<I> With regard to sports reporters, by the way, it's worth mentioning that when the Duke women's lacrosse team chose to support the men's team through wristbands, ESPN's John Saunders ripped them on the Sunday morning Sports Reporters program. Something about how he would have been humiliated if his daughters had done likewise.<BR/><BR/>May 30, 2007 12:32:00 AM</I><BR/><BR/>That is why my hat is off to those women and their coach, Kerstin Kimel. They did the right thing, and about all that the press has done has been to viciously attack them. Compare the self-righteous journalists to the LAX men and women and we will see who are the better people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-53447296027959806872007-05-30T09:17:00.000-04:002007-05-30T09:17:00.000-04:00Bill Anderson said:OK, OK. I will give him the ben...<I>Bill Anderson said:<BR/><BR/>OK, OK. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. And Wise is not exactly an honest sportswriter, as we have seen, so maybe he did take things out of context.<BR/><BR/>It is hard for me to have a good attitude towards the JH people after hearing the "No means no!" nonsense from them last April.</I><BR/><BR/>Good move, Bill. Like others, I'm not convinced Byrne was "having a go" at Duke; it seems to me he was noting the bad image that the allegations and media treatment gave to lacrosse players. <BR/><BR/>As for the badly behaved fans, well, we all know how painful and unjust it is when a team or individual is blamed for the behaviour of others.<BR/><BR/>For now, Byrne should be safe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-40016734580880675672007-05-30T07:13:00.000-04:002007-05-30T07:13:00.000-04:00Business as usual at the Washington Puss.Business as usual at the Washington Puss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-25773042517921809362007-05-30T03:58:00.000-04:002007-05-30T03:58:00.000-04:001. NEVER, EVER TRUST A REPORTER.2. Never trust ang...1. NEVER, EVER TRUST A REPORTER.<BR/><BR/>2. Never trust angry people, especially those that see themselves as Professional "victims"<BR/><BR/>3. NEVER trust a cop when he or she is under pressure to solve an unsolved crime.<BR/><BR/>4. A good rule of thumb---if someone seems to give you a varying opinion (based on race, gender, etc) do not trust that person with anything. This, of course, excompasses much of the MSM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-17634976068378054142007-05-30T00:32:00.000-04:002007-05-30T00:32:00.000-04:00With regard to sports reporters, by the way, it's ...With regard to sports reporters, by the way, it's worth mentioning that when the Duke women's lacrosse team chose to support the men's team through wristbands, ESPN's John Saunders ripped them on the Sunday morning Sports Reporters program. Something about how he would have been humiliated if his daughters had done likewise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-29588701228811340312007-05-30T00:28:00.000-04:002007-05-30T00:28:00.000-04:00Unfortunately, I wasn't surprised at the backlash ...Unfortunately, I wasn't surprised at the backlash against the team as they moved through the tournament. At first, the portrayals were sympathetic, but when they got to the final four, I felt that there would inevitably be stories that, regardless of the proclomation of innocence, again, cast the entire team in a negative light.<BR/><BR/>It's a little disturbing that among the media who covered the story, that the sports reporters seem to be less familiar with the facts of the case. They seem to be of the "charges were not proven" vein moreso than the AG's statement. These are the same group of reporters who seem to gloss over high-profile stories of basketball and football players' brushes with the law when covering those sports.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but it's worth noting that Feinstein was a scholarship athlete when he was at Duke. He was a swimmer, although men's swimming doesn't have scholarships anymore. Maybe he was so quick to condemn because he may have been guilty of the same behavior of which the men's lacrosse team were accused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-6248981343624259672007-05-29T22:46:00.000-04:002007-05-29T22:46:00.000-04:00Hi Bill, I remember the Herman Veal condoms and th...Hi Bill, <BR/>I remember the Herman Veal condoms and the Chris Washburn pizza boxes thrown on the floor of Camerom.<BR/><BR/>More clever than the F**k you JJ Reddick chants UM students have embarrassed themselves and the University with on ESPN.<BR/><BR/>What I think is one story that should get more play is that the women’s team wore those “Innocent” bracelets in the face of ridicule. <BR/><BR/>Somebody should applaud them for their fortitude. They were right. Yet, the people with agendas—on face value this included supposed feminists—vilified them .<BR/><BR/>I don’t know any Duke women’s payer—but I think they were vindicated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-51019688813312527562007-05-29T22:43:00.000-04:002007-05-29T22:43:00.000-04:00Pressler would have to be a saint not to have said...Pressler would have to be a saint not to have said to himself, I could have won this if I were the coach. He never said this and its from my own thoughts. No rumors please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-5349330758897286832007-05-29T21:58:00.000-04:002007-05-29T21:58:00.000-04:00As to the chants by JHU and UM students, I think i...<I>As to the chants by JHU and UM students, I think it was a classless thing to do. I'm a UM guy and I was at Byrd when UM and Duke played. I almost told the students to shut the f*** up--it reflects so poorly on my alma mater--but Duke fans aren't innocent when it comes to taunting opposing teams. <BR/><BR/>May 29, 2007 9:38:00 PM</I><BR/><BR/>I agree there. Look, I still remember the reception the Cameron crowd gave one of the guards for the Lady Vols a couple of years ago. As a hardcore Lady Vols fan, I did not like it, and I would not have been surprised to see the Duke students doing the "No means No" to others if the shoe were on another foot.<BR/><BR/>Of course, Duke students did a pretty good job of attacking the LAX players last year, and surely did not need any help from Maryland or Johns Hopkins fans. Now, I do give the kids there credit for seeing the light -- much sooner than did many members of the faculty and administration!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-10615905987620193552007-05-29T21:38:00.000-04:002007-05-29T21:38:00.000-04:00Byrne quote in Wise article:"I felt bad they lost,...Byrne quote in Wise article:<BR/>"I felt bad they lost, but I would have felt the same way if Virginia had lost the national title," Byrne said. "This was about a lacrosse game, not off-field events that happened a year ago. If anything, it brought us negativity and didn't make people in the sport out to be the right kind of people."<BR/><BR/>I read this as not a rip on the Duke players, but Byrne's take on the fact that people with agendas labeled lacrosse players in general as "arrogant rich white boys".<BR/><BR/>To paraphrase one of the 88: "the perfect offenders". Which means that this stereotype let them run hog-wild with their agendas.<BR/><BR/>I don't know Byrne or what it is that Bill Anderson alludes to, but since he was high school teammates with several Duke players, I doubt he was slurring them.<BR/><BR/>As to the chants by JHU and UM students, I think it was a classless thing to do. I'm a UM guy and I was at Byrd when UM and Duke played. I almost told the students to shut the f*** up--it reflects so poorly on my alma mater--but Duke fans aren't innocent when it comes to taunting opposing teams.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-41275760790653984242007-05-29T21:00:00.000-04:002007-05-29T21:00:00.000-04:00The Wise article was good. It reflected the broad...The Wise article was good. It reflected the broader perspective of the game of lacrosse, and not just Duke's.<BR/><BR/>Its time lacrosse got back to the X's and O's of the game, and let the Duke players return to a normal life. - I'm sure the players would appreciate both<BR/><BR/>The Pressler TV coverage angle was overdone in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>That the Duke players were not supported by their school (at this stage of the game) is whining blather.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-8511155470302555062007-05-29T19:57:00.000-04:002007-05-29T19:57:00.000-04:00I doubt Jake Byrne meant anything negative wrt Duk...I doubt Jake Byrne meant anything negative wrt Duke guys.<BR/><BR/>Jake Byrne is friends with a lot of guys on Duke team.<BR/><BR/>BTW, D1 lacrosse is a small world. These guys all know each other from high school, summer leagues, etc. Based on my experience at Hopkins, I'd bet that several Duke players and Hopkins players will socialize together this summer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-4814041547789458282007-05-29T19:19:00.000-04:002007-05-29T19:19:00.000-04:00Bill--I'm 5:34, and I didn't mean to suggest that ...Bill--<BR/>I'm 5:34, and I didn't mean to suggest that you were making it up, just that it was not so blatant that I could tell it was happening on the Hopkins side of the field. Perhaps it was coming more from the other side of the pep band (where, I think, more students were sitting) and the band kept me from hearing it. I did see a photo of a "No means no" sign from Maryland, although I think I also read an article in which one of the people holding it said she did it mostly as a joke, quickly felt silly, and put the sign down.<BR/><BR/>As boorish as this cheering may have been, however, and as understandably upsetting to the Duke parents, I wouldn't assume that it means people at JHU (or Maryland) actually thought the players were guilty. A lot of college sports fans like to stick the needle in the opposing team any way they can, and being young and thoughtless they can often choose ways that are both cruel and unfair. <BR/><BR/>Duke teams are a particular target (just ask J.J. Redick, who spent four years as the most hated basketball player in the ACC, enduring completely baseless vile taunts about himself and his family members), probably because the fans in Cameron over the years have felt free to dish it out to other teams. One of my kids attended a Duke women's game in which one of the opposing team's players had been charged with, I think, shoplifting from a Wal-Mart; the fans chanted "Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart" when she was introduced and whenever she went to the foul line. Obviously, they didn't know whether she had really shoplifted and they didn't care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86189351948659854432007-05-29T18:51:00.000-04:002007-05-29T18:51:00.000-04:00"akin to abandoning fellow soldiers on the battlef..."akin to abandoning fellow soldiers on the battlefield" In what universe would that be? You might discuss that with some real soldiers. Let us keep our priorites in check.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-9830229307451930352007-05-29T18:37:00.000-04:002007-05-29T18:37:00.000-04:00OK, OK. I will give him the benefit of the doubt....OK, OK. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. And Wise is not exactly an honest sportswriter, as we have seen, so maybe he did take things out of context.<BR/><BR/>It is hard for me to have a good attitude towards the JH people after hearing the "No means no!" nonsense from them last April. <BR/><BR/>(I remember some of the other Duke parents were quite disgusted by what they were hearing. I can only hope that the JH fans were not yelling the same thing on Monday.)<BR/><BR/>But you guys are right in that I have become something of a pit bull in this affair. Last week I went round and round with a seminary professor from the main seminary of our denomination, as he had some pieces for the Acton Institute that slammed the players. (I even wrote the president of the seminary, so I do get involved in this a bit.)<BR/><BR/>I reminded the professor and the president that having a party with some 20-year-olds drinking beer and hiring a stripper, as bad as that might seem to them, pales in comparison to prosecutors and police lying, fabricating evidence, suborning perjury, withholding evidence, and lying to judges. Believe it or not, the professor insisted that the latter list was no worse than the party.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-66014417740544861922007-05-29T18:29:00.000-04:002007-05-29T18:29:00.000-04:006:00 pmWhoa buddy....slow down there....there was ...6:00 pm<BR/><BR/>Whoa buddy....slow down there....there was definitely a LAX backlash because of the Duke 'situation', and we all know that backlash was caused by media coverage. <BR/><BR/>To suggest that Byrne is slamming Duke LAX players' characters is just plain petty and stupid...There is the G88, and after these posts today, I'm afraid there will soon be a DIW88.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry Duke got beat by JHU, but that gives no one a license to bash anyone because of an obscure quote that no one, especially on this borad, can contextualize accurately.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12175378567866560863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-39439143156758987532007-05-29T18:04:00.000-04:002007-05-29T18:04:00.000-04:00Bill,I read the same Byrne quote, and I don't thin...Bill,<BR/><BR/>I read the same Byrne quote, and I don't think it was character assaination. You are totally contextualizing what he said based on actions of others. Before you assasinate his character, why don't you just ask him what he meant by the quote.....?? Geez, I have agreed with everything you have ever written and commented about this case, but dang-it! you are wrong here!<BR/><BR/>Wise blames Duke LAX for the lack of JHU coverage, but Byrne? Come one! Before you start dropping nukes on this guy, give him a chance to comment on exactly what he meant. <BR/><BR/>If anything, I saw JHU players act with great respect for Duke. I think you are barking up the wrong tree on this one, but we will see!! I know you won't let this one rest until he makes a statement, and that is what we love about you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-77042658474897342862007-05-29T18:03:00.000-04:002007-05-29T18:03:00.000-04:00I never heard of Jake Byrne until today. I assume ...I never heard of Jake Byrne until today. I assume he's exactly the same sort of bright, productive member of society the Duke kids seem to be, after taking into account the foibles of youth, which are the sum total of the current excoriation of the Duke Lacrosse team. <BR/><BR/>And that's the crux of my objection to Mr. Byrne's comments in the Wetzel piece. <BR/><BR/>I'm not engaging in ad hominem. I am focusing on his remarks, in the context prepared by Mr. Wetzel, and seeing them as cynical and, considering Jake's background is similar to many of the Duke players, hypocritical. <BR/><BR/>I don't wish ill for Mr. Byrne. In fact, entirely the opposite. It is my hope the captain of a champion lacrosse team, thus a leader among the next generation, academically gifted enough to attend one of the most rigorous universities in the world, would exercise greater discretion and awareness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-89776060432235501332007-05-29T18:00:00.000-04:002007-05-29T18:00:00.000-04:005:35pm-You know, your post really infuriates me. D...5:35pm-<BR/><BR/>You know, your post really infuriates me. Do you really go about your days responding to people that way?<BR/>Do you think you "get over"?<BR/>Many people come here who identify themselves as Democrats or liberals, etc....and they invariably use the same kind of strange logic as you have.<BR/>Everyone is witnessing what Byrne said and it's quite clear.<BR/>But you want to submit an evaluation which is not impossible, but very, very improbable, given the reality of the matter.<BR/>This doublespeak and BS are why so many get disgusted with liberals and their way of handling issues.<BR/>Byrne was slamming the Duke lacrosse players. Stop embarrassing yourself and blaming Bill Anderson for what a grown 20 year old man--the same age bracket as Reade, Collin, and David--was tasteless enough to say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-40378467427098751952007-05-29T17:49:00.000-04:002007-05-29T17:49:00.000-04:00I was sitting with Bob and Sally Fogarty on the Du...I was sitting with Bob and Sally Fogarty on the Duke side and we clearly heard "No means no!" coming from the Hopkins fans in the second half. I know what I heard, and the others heard it and commented on it.<BR/><BR/>I'm not making it up. The fans at the Maryland game were doing the same things, and Maryland fans even held up "No means no!" signs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-39328590213426053542007-05-29T17:35:00.000-04:002007-05-29T17:35:00.000-04:00Jim said: And they say: Mr. Byrne was "ticked off...Jim said: <BR/><BR/>And they say: Mr. Byrne was "ticked off" that the Duke case was getting more coverage than the Hopkins' team and he wanted that coverage to end because "the off-field events that happened a year ago" (and from that quote, I doubt he's refering to the Pot Bangers, the Group of 88, a rogue prosecutor, quashed DNA results, et al, but rather the allegations of rape, sexual assault and kidnapping made against Duke lacrosse players)<BR/>"brought us negativity and didn't make people in the sport out to be the right kind of people."<BR/><BR/><BR/>I don't understand your issue with Byrne. Whether it was the pot bangers, group of 88 etc or the unfounded allegations of rape, sexual assault and kidnapping, doesn't matter. Clearly the bad acts of others (NOT the Duke LAX) brought negativity to the sport, and didn't make people in the sport out to be the kinds of people that they clearly are.<BR/><BR/>That doesn't say anything bad about the Duke LAX players. I great admiration for the way these young men have carried themselves throughout this ordeal. I don't see Mr. Byrne's remarks as attacking Duke LAX players.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-22765992399856645902007-05-29T17:34:00.000-04:002007-05-29T17:34:00.000-04:00Gee, Bill, you must have been in a different secti...Gee, Bill, you must have been in a different section of the stands from me at the Duke Hopkins game--I was sitting with my neighbor, a Hopkins season ticket holder, not far from the JHU pep band. I heard a lot of yelling at the refs, grandstand coaching of the players ("shoot!") and assorted conversation. And because I was wearing Duke gear I had a nice conversation with the father of a former Duke lacrosse captain (from the 90's)--who now cheers for Hopkins because of Duke's treatment of the team and Coach Pressler. But I didn't hear anyone yelling "no means no." So it can't have been all the Hopkins fans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-65198574397142362782007-05-29T17:27:00.000-04:002007-05-29T17:27:00.000-04:00Bill,I think students are telling us old folk that...Bill,<BR/><BR/>I think students are telling us old folk that certain phrases are either worn out or are just wrong in the first place.<BR/><BR/>No Means No ...has joined the 1980's phrase ...apply yourself ... as old and worn out. The kids are sick of hearing it. Kids at Duke and JH and just about everyplace else.<BR/><BR/>The 'rap' music in the background of many of the Duke Lacrosse practice sessions was dreamed up by the students to annoy the G88 who are forever talking about the horror of viewing women as sexual objects ... which is what the rap artist is singing about. And of course, the students suggested that a rap artist be invited to campus...which Duke in a weaker moment surely, approved! Oh the Irony.<BR/><BR/>Not all Clever Chaps attend or graduated from Harvard.<BR/>::<BR/>GPGary Packwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05177986821224068759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-5221533953518752742007-05-29T17:25:00.000-04:002007-05-29T17:25:00.000-04:00Yea, I agree that Byrne and some others wanted to ...Yea, I agree that Byrne and some others wanted to make a big deal about how Duke had tainted things for the entire lacrosse sport.<BR/>No way did a 20 year old intelligent man not know the results of his words.<BR/>Byrne's comments were akin to a soldier abandoning fellow soldiers on the battlefield.<BR/>I would also like someone to tell us about Byrne's past behavior. He likes to slam his fellow athletes. What is his story?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-80826717822505142102007-05-29T17:04:00.000-04:002007-05-29T17:04:00.000-04:00I had no idea that someone is keeping my quotes in...I had no idea that someone is keeping my quotes in a special place. <BR/><BR/>I know what Byrne said, and he certainly was not paying any of the Duke players a compliment. Keep in mind that these guys showed a lot of class throughout the season, and they have taken the kinds of shots that few of us have endured. <BR/><BR/>I believed that Wise's piece was meant to follow the missive he sent yesterday. Whether or not Byrne was misquoted, I do not know, but the comments I read were not appropriate in the wake of what happened.<BR/><BR/>I also was in the stands the day before Easter at the Duke-JH game and had to endure the JH fans screaming "No means no!" over and over again. So, you have to understand that the attitude that the people at JH had given was that the Duke team was full of rapists and that David, Reade, and Collin actually were guilty.<BR/><BR/>Given what the people at JH already had been saying, I take Byrne's statements in that context. He had plenty of chances to separate himself from what came from the mouths of the team's supporters. He chose not to do that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com