tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post9120635839707642763..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: Reflections on the Lisker Appointmentkcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger152125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-73446506703189851852007-10-25T18:17:00.000-04:002007-10-25T18:17:00.000-04:00traveler 10/23/07 11:40 AM said... ...Interesting-...traveler 10/23/07 11:40 AM said... <BR/><BR/>...Interesting-this:<BR/>...Duke Magazine: Forum - Volume 90, No.5, September-October 2004<BR/>...Same-sex Scholars <BR/>...The creation of the Baldwin Scholars program is just the latest bit of evidence that Duke has lost its way in attempting to create a consistent social policy ["Gazette," May-June 2004]. How can a university that has made liberal use of the word "diversity" defend this isolation tank of a female study program? <BR/>...<BR/>...http://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/091004/depfor.html<BR/>::<BR/>Yes, most interesting.<BR/><BR/>I'm guessing that Duke was trying to move forward their diversity agenda without falling into the old problem of young women and men asking to live in brand new residence hall because of the sexual orientation.<BR/><BR/>Over the years it has been learned by universities that after these groups graduated, they were not Gay, Bi, Lesbian or Transgender. They just loved the idea of a new residence hall.<BR/><BR/>They are now referred to as GUG's or Gay Until Graduation.<BR/>::<BR/>GPGary Packwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05177986821224068759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-33939300912350326392007-10-23T13:57:00.000-04:002007-10-23T13:57:00.000-04:00"I am baffled as to why the victims of this case a..."I am baffled as to why the victims of this case are not as interesting or important to any person of conscience as other victims."<BR/>Because they're white, male, strait, and non-poor.<BR/><BR/>"Does deep concern for victims of sexual assault preclude deep concern for victims of false rape charges and prosecutorial abuse?<BR/>Yes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-50638940600684422782007-10-23T13:42:00.000-04:002007-10-23T13:42:00.000-04:00Let's just say this certainly was not a brilliant ...Let's just say this certainly was not a brilliant appointment. And, of course, we should examine what is known about the appointee and talk about it here. I<BR/><BR/> am delighted that Dr. Lisker is delighted the LAX players were innocent...I just wish she had or would express some outrage about the case. It is a completely OUTRAGEOUS case. I am baffled as to why the victims of this case are not as interesting or important to any person of conscience as other victims. Does deep concern for victims of sexual assault preclude deep concern for victims of false rape charges and prosecutorial abuse? When Dr. Lisker organizes a "Take Back Durham" march on City Hall or the police station or speaks out emphatically about the injustices of this case, then I might consider her a good appointment. As it stands (here you go, Steve Horwitz) she is a better choice than many at Duke, but that's not saying much. <BR/><BR/>ObserverAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-82093732964336877612007-10-23T11:40:00.000-04:002007-10-23T11:40:00.000-04:00Interesting-this:Duke Magazine: Forum - Volume 90...Interesting-this:<BR/><BR/>Duke Magazine: Forum - Volume 90, No.5, September-October 2004<BR/><BR/>Same-sex Scholars <BR/>The creation of the Baldwin Scholars program is just the latest bit of evidence that Duke has lost its way in attempting to create a consistent social policy ["Gazette," May-June 2004]. How can a university that has made liberal use of the word "diversity" defend this isolation tank of a female study program? <BR/><BR/>Donna Lisker attempts to answer this question with her assessment that the class of Baldwin Scholars will be "diverse in myriad ways, including by race, ethnicity, and socioeconomic status," but her comment only proves that, for some, diversity is in the eye of the beholder. If we first exclude gender as a component of "diversity," then what†do we exclude†next?<BR/><BR/>Perhaps I am in no position to voice my criticisms. After all, the "students said they want this." In response, Lisker is going to give those students an "alternative social environment" where they can become leaders and "have more influence than they have now." It sounds as if the administration is building a sandbox in which the kids make the rules. How many such sandboxes is the administration willing to build for the sake of being sensitive and P.C. (i.e., Politically Chaotic)? By these actions, the university is in danger of becoming a web of compartmentalized programs, diverse in the aggregate, yet homogenous in the small scale.<BR/><BR/>The Baldwin Scholars program will at best only temporarily solve the problems of young women by giving them their own sterile micro-universe, lacking the deplorable social attitudes of others. I believe the true pioneers will continue to be those students who "chip away at the social norms" from within the current system, and I will be interested to see how well the Baldwin Scholars get along when playtime is over and they are forced to step out of their sandbox.<BR/> <BR/>Ronald Lewis McNeill II '99<BR/>Arlington, Virginia <BR/><BR/>http://www.dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/091004/depfor.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-19694915589099480912007-10-23T09:29:00.000-04:002007-10-23T09:29:00.000-04:00Anonymous said... "Lisker is part of the problem i...Anonymous said... <BR/>"Lisker is part of the problem in my view. The Take Back the Night 'Castrate' March was organized in the Duke Women's Center."<BR/><BR/>Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Take Back the Night march was planned well before the night of the lacrosse party. …………<BR/><BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/><BR/>Good Grief, Brodhead cancelled the whole Lacrosse season to spare Duke more controversy. That represents many scheduled events planned BEFORE the incident as well, wouldn’t you say? A little march around campus pales beside the harsh punishment the lacrosse team suffered. <BR/><BR/>Lisker invited people from the false accusers college, when there are known tensions between the schools. Outsiders from Durham were also invited. How could Lisker have not thought that a race riot might “accidentally” occur? The whole campus was in a highly emotionally state. <BR/><BR/>An actual riot would have garnered even more attention, and how bad would that be? In fact, she could not have known what might happen to embarrass Duke. She seized upon a situation to further her little agenda. Just like the G-88 did with their Ad. <BR/><BR/>Some little dears, were there to verbally punish the lacrosse team., ”One sign read, “Protect Victims Not Rapists. That should have been her exit signal. Standing for anything remotely like that seals her fate in my opinion. She was perfectly ready to further tarnish Duke’s reputation to advance her cause. Did she sign the G-88 ad? Having the “Wanted Posters” handed out PRIOR to the little walk, is much worse in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>“While speakers rallied the crowd against sexual assault by reading poetry and speeches, several participants [defaced the lists of the players.”] <BR/><BR/>Lisker quote: “I don't think the message has changed at all, It may be easier for us to get an audience, …………….”<BR/><BR/>Please, <BR/>“If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.”<BR/>-- Douglas Noel AdamsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-39847980975623911292007-10-23T06:08:00.000-04:002007-10-23T06:08:00.000-04:00inman said... RRH @ 3:45 Got a chuckle from ...<I>inman said...<BR/><BR/> RRH @ 3:45<BR/><BR/> Got a chuckle from that one.<BR/><BR/> I often tell folks that I was 21 before I was allowed north of the Mason-Dixon line and that I'd traveled through 29 states by that time. When I moved to Wilton Connecticut in 1997, I'd tell folks (those damnyankees***) about that fact and then in my best southern drawl say "...and thank God this is Southern Connecticut."<BR/><BR/><BR/> *** "damnyankees" is one word for yaw'll who can't speak no Southren [sic].<BR/><BR/> 10/22/07 6:38 PM</I><BR/><BR/>You're from Maryland, right? When I read what you wrote, I thought of <A HREF="http://youtube.com/watch?v=s7zpNlGyzQk" REL="nofollow">this song </A> from the many "Songs of the Southern Diaspora".<BR/><BR/>RRHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-77822003225348603402007-10-23T05:42:00.000-04:002007-10-23T05:42:00.000-04:00Gee, now I'm being taken to task by several commen...Gee, now I'm being taken to task by several commenters for being "too easy on Lisker"? And it was just, what?, two days ago when Prof. Horwitz was saying, "The problem with you Hamilton is that you seem so hell-bent on attacking the people/institutions that don't fit your world-view that you'll grab any arrow in the quiver to do it, no matter how legitimate, fair, or reasonable it is."<BR/><BR/>RRH, aka "Satan's Archer"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-51422473832329926552007-10-22T23:23:00.000-04:002007-10-22T23:23:00.000-04:00RRH said: I would point out that Lisker didn't jus...RRH said: <I><BR/>I would point out that Lisker didn't just "fail to sign", she refused to sign the ad and letter. Would you have believed, before hearing of this, that the director of the Duke Women's Center was not an 88er?</I> <BR/><BR/>No, and I still don't.<BR/><BR/><I>So, Lisker has already proven she can stand up against 88er pressure.</I><BR/><BR/>Not in my book. As the director of the Women's Center I suspect that the 88 gave her the benefit of the doubt and treated her with much more respect and lenience than they did white males, e.g., athletes like Mike Pressler, Dave Evans, Collin Finnerty, Reade Seligman, et al. Standing up against one's friends and allies in a disagreement among like-minded peers is not what I call courage - standing up to a hostile crowd of one's enemies is a lot closer to the mark, at least in my book. <BR/><BR/><I>I'm willing to "take a leap of faith" and believe she can and will again.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not, at least until I see a <B>true</B> act of courage from her. <BR/><BR/><I>Yes, Lisker has said some unhelpful things about the Lax Hoax, but I urge us to be like Horwitz on his best days, and in the case of Lisker let us "turn the other cheek".</I><BR/><BR/>What, so she can slap it? No thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-73461317065351193202007-10-22T22:00:00.000-04:002007-10-22T22:00:00.000-04:00Why focus anger on Lister? As R.R. Hamilton has po...Why focus anger on Lister? As R.R. Hamilton has pointed out, she refused to sign the ad. <BR/><BR/>Why not be angry with Crystal Mangum. She started it all.<BR/><BR/>Or be angry with the Attorney General who doesn't think Crystal should be prosecuted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-73937279674497587322007-10-22T21:52:00.000-04:002007-10-22T21:52:00.000-04:00Lisker may not be one of the worst offenders but w...Lisker may not be one of the worst offenders but whatever she did "was bad enough."<BR/><BR/>The University of Phoenix is looking better every day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-8803815245631778712007-10-22T20:20:00.000-04:002007-10-22T20:20:00.000-04:00Kudos to Phelan at 2:21.Duke ProfKudos to Phelan at 2:21.<BR/><BR/>Duke ProfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-53389590481930070962007-10-22T18:38:00.000-04:002007-10-22T18:38:00.000-04:00RRH @ 3:45Got a chuckle from that one.I often tell...RRH @ 3:45<BR/><BR/>Got a chuckle from that one.<BR/><BR/>I often tell folks that I was 21 before I was allowed north of the Mason-Dixon line and that I'd traveled through 29 states by that time. When I moved to Wilton Connecticut in 1997, I'd tell folks (those damnyankees***) about that fact and then in my best southern drawl say "...and thank God this is Southern Connecticut."<BR/><BR/><BR/>*** "damnyankees" is one word for yaw'll who can't speak no Southren [sic].Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-38979473120486926542007-10-22T18:19:00.000-04:002007-10-22T18:19:00.000-04:00Debrah 10:25 said... ...The problem I have...and h...Debrah 10:25 said... <BR/><BR/>...The problem I have...and have always had with people like Lisker is that they seem to bask in the glow of disaster.<BR/>::<BR/>What a beautiful, descriptive and appropriate phrase which describes many of those on the campus of Duke with respect to the lacrosse hoax. <BR/><BR/>You remind me of John Updike writing about how towns solve their problems with wild deer eating shrubs and flowers. Updike said...<BR/><BR/>The town, with its curious flair for scandal where another town might have found a quiet solution, debated the issue into a storm of publicity.<BR/>::<BR/>GPGary Packwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05177986821224068759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-73339811414310914292007-10-22T17:52:00.000-04:002007-10-22T17:52:00.000-04:00RRH 5:25 - Even if Lisker is as fair as a feminist...RRH 5:25 - Even if Lisker is as fair as a feminist can be, why the heck does Duke need yet another feminist administrator? Let's see some real diversity already.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-746499544348344752007-10-22T17:25:00.000-04:002007-10-22T17:25:00.000-04:00Ralph Phelan said... rrhamilton said... "The...<I>Ralph Phelan said...<BR/><BR/> rrhamilton said...<BR/></I> "The ad and the letter combine to form a pretty bright line for me. Because Lisker signed neither, I can cut her a lot of slack."<BR/><I> Signing the ad and/or letter (and not haing apologized yet) are<BR/> prima facie proof of being evil and/or stupid. Not having signed is not disproof - the egregious Orin Starn is not a signer of either.<BR/><BR/> 10/22/07 2:30 PM<BR/></I><BR/>You pretty well sum up my feelings. <BR/><BR/>I would point out that Lisker didn't just "fail to sign", she <B><I>refused</B></I> to sign the ad and letter. Would you have believed, before hearing of this, that the director of the Duke Women's Center was not an 88er? So, Lisker has already proven she can stand up against 88er pressure. I'm willing to "take a leap of faith" and believe she can and will again. Yes, Lisker has said some unhelpful things about the Lax Hoax, but I urge us to be like Horwitz on his best days, and in the case of Lisker let us "turn the other cheek".<BR/><BR/>RRHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-32600172301437712852007-10-22T17:05:00.000-04:002007-10-22T17:05:00.000-04:0010/22/07 10:02 AMtraveler said... Waheema vs. W...<I>10/22/07 10:02 AM<BR/>traveler said...<BR/><BR/> Waheema vs. Wahneema<BR/><BR/> To RRH: ... what a can of worms you opened. </I><BR/><BR/>I need the worms to bait my opponents. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-21453975987681295362007-10-22T16:47:00.000-04:002007-10-22T16:47:00.000-04:00And Ralph says Marx should only be taught:Only in ...And Ralph says Marx should only be taught:<BR/><BR/><I>Only in courses on the history of philosophy, the history of economics, or the history of bad ideas.</I><BR/><BR/>All I can say is <A HREF="http://myslu.stlawu.edu/~shorwitz/Teaching/f93330.htm" REL="nofollow">"phew!"</A> and <A HREF="http://myslu.stlawu.edu/~shorwitz/Teaching/s00234.htm" REL="nofollow">"uh oh, I guess Ralph's gonna call me a Marxist now".</A><BR/><BR/>One out of two. Do I pass?Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-54673322064469659182007-10-22T16:41:00.000-04:002007-10-22T16:41:00.000-04:00rrh writes:Second, even if you're right that Fish ...rrh writes:<BR/><BR/><I>Second, even if you're right that Fish meant that "teaching issues with political content" is what is "inevitable and blameless", given the near-uniform diet of Marxism fed to today's college students (outside of business and the "hard sciences"), no one interested in real intellectual diversity can be mollified.</I><BR/><BR/>It's possible that you and I have different definitions of Marxism, but I'd like to see your empirical evidence for this. I recently had reason to peruse the syllabi for all the offerings in our History department for this fall (yes, they are almost all online, publicly available), and only one had Marx and/or Englels on it, and that was a course in 19th century Europe (which seems appropriate) where students were also reading several classic novels, a text with primary sources from the period, and a more traditional history text.<BR/><BR/>Can I say that none of the other books being assigned in all of those courses are "Marxist"? Nope, because I don't know the literature. What I can say is that the most commonly assigned text in the History department is Rampolla's guide to writing history. Sample size = 1 department, but looks like the "near-uniform diet" history students at my place are being "fed" is about how to write good history papers.<BR/><BR/>In any case, you've made an empirically testable assertion. Can I get some evidence? And please don't try to convince us that any author left of center is a "Marxist." You used a specific term and made a specific claim. Back it up.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-11798557156725428202007-10-22T16:09:00.000-04:002007-10-22T16:09:00.000-04:0010/22/07 2:44 PMSteven Horwitz said... rrh says...<I> 10/22/07 2:44 PM<BR/>Steven Horwitz said...<BR/><BR/> rrh says:<BR/><BR/></I> Fish says: "Like their counterparts on the right who complain endlessly about the presence of Karl Marx on many reading lists, the authors of the report fail to understand the all-important distinction between the political content of an issue and teaching that content politically. The first is inevitable and blameless; the second is a dereliction of professional duty."<BR/><BR/> In other words, "the presence of Karl Marx on many reading lists ... is inevitable and blameless and conservative professors who complain about it are professional derelicts." Yeah, Steven, I feel much better.<I><BR/><BR/> It would help if you could read better Hamilton. The dereliction of duty is NOT, repeat NOT, conservative professors who complain about it but "teaching content politically." That is what the "second" refers to. What is "inevitable and blameless" is teaching issues with political content. That is what "the first" refers to. <BR/><BR/></I> I read "the first" to be a reference to the first part of the preceding sentence, "the presence of Karl Marx on many reading lists," and "the second" to be a reference to the main focus of the sentence, the "fail[ure] to understand the all-important distinction". Maybe Fish could learn to write better.<BR/><BR/>Second, even if you're right that Fish meant that "teaching issues with political content" is what is "inevitable and blameless", given the near-uniform diet of Marxism fed to today's college students (outside of business and the "hard sciences"), no one interested in real intellectual diversity can be mollified. <BR/><BR/>RRHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-15331694630645795102007-10-22T16:01:00.000-04:002007-10-22T16:01:00.000-04:00As an AGENT of Duke University, Lisker said:�Innoc...As an AGENT of Duke University, Lisker said:<BR/><BR/>�Innocent until proven guilty is a critical presumption. But these are such serious charges.�<BR/><BR/>�Something like THIS takes away that sense of security� and provokes �fear and anger.�<BR/><BR/>(emphasis added)("THIS" obviously refers to a rape; false accusations would not cause "fear" in the students).<BR/><BR/>"Starting in the immediate aftermath of the ASSAULT ...."<BR/><BR/>(emphasis added)(What would you people say if another AGENT of Duke said these things, say President Brodhead?)(Velvet genderism, if you ask me). <BR/><BR/>"I don�t want to paint all the players with one brush, but there is still the issue of their behavior we know to be true: They had a party, hired women to strip, the women were (verbally) threatened and there was underage drinking. Can we talk about that part of it?" <BR/><BR/>(player bashing; does she tell girls not to wear short skirts?).<BR/>____________<BR/><BR/>Perhaps next time K.C. will use the old litigator trick of putting the incendiary material first, then follow it with the impeachment material, for example: <BR/><BR/>A. "I did not speak about the lacrosse case with any specificity; indeed, I could not, as I was not involved." <BR/><BR/>(She was able to be specific enough to prejudge the students' guilt). <BR/><BR/>B. "I never presumed guilt in this case ..." <BR/><BR/>(err ... well ... yeah, sure) MOO! GregoryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-45972222831901049242007-10-22T15:59:00.000-04:002007-10-22T15:59:00.000-04:00Steve Horwitz said:"He is not saying that conserva...Steve Horwitz said:<BR/>"He is not saying that conservatives who complain about Marx are "derelict in duty" rather those who teach Marx's politics as if they were correct are. Isn't that your own view as well? Or is Marx not to be taught at all?"<BR/><BR/>Only in courses on the history of philosophy, the history of economics, or the history of bad ideas.<BR/><BR/>Aside from that, a set of ideas known to be both incorrect and deadly really deserves far less attention than ideas that are either known to be correct and useful, or a the very least new and still untested.<BR/><BR/>That Marx still takes up so much time and serious attention is both a sign of bad judgement and a waste of resources.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-90401692623553671302007-10-22T15:53:00.000-04:002007-10-22T15:53:00.000-04:00Hey, hey , ho, ho---Lisker didn’t know! (“8:30 p.m...Hey, hey , ho, ho---Lisker didn’t know!<BR/><BR/> (“8:30 p.m., several hundred men and women entered the quad, chanting)<BR/><BR/>“Hey, hey, ho, ho, all rape has got to go!” One sign read, “Protect Victims Not Rapists<BR/>http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2006/03/takeback.htm<BR/><BR/>There is a good picture of the wanted posters on view that night, PRIOR to the event.<BR/> Plus this:<BR/>Rape case inspires Duke student activism<BR/>Students speaking out, urging unity in fight against sexual assault <BR/>Durham, N.C. resident Flannery Hysjulien looks at a poster with faces of most of the members of the Duke lacrosse team as it hangs in front of the East Union Building, on Wednesday night,- PRIOR- to a Take Back the Night march on the Duke University campus in Durham. <BR/>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12080547/<BR/><BR/>Now, would a prudent adult administrator allow this inflamed rhetoric, or posters like that to become apart of any Duke demonstration? Well, she did, and that was a badly ill-judged decision. She should have been at the frontline saying this demonstration will not take place due to the charged emotions that strains our student community. Wringing of hands and looking back at that hate-filled crowd, cannot be her stunning vindication for her participation in the gang-rape of the three innocent men, that occurred that night. When her center personnel took part, so did she! This should become a Harry Truman moment in my opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-44411644012847297382007-10-22T15:45:00.000-04:002007-10-22T15:45:00.000-04:00Debrah said at 9:43 AM ... Lisker offers this: ...<I>Debrah said at 9:43 AM ...<BR/><BR/> Lisker offers this:<BR/><BR/> " And my husband ...is a southerner who was eager to return to the South."<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>That reminds me of a quote from Nathan Perlmutter, former director of B'nai B'rith: "When a Northern leaves the North, he's touristing. When a Southerner leaves the South, he enters his own diaspora."<BR/><BR/>RRHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-33760527501010504922007-10-22T15:20:00.000-04:002007-10-22T15:20:00.000-04:00I think DNA science will be doing away with a lot ...I think DNA science will be doing away with a lot of the false rape claims. Once folk realize, they will need the science to back up their claim that S## actually took place, I think yelling rape will decrease.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-3933896419697614872007-10-22T15:18:00.000-04:002007-10-22T15:18:00.000-04:00Holy Cow - I was a liberal Denocrat my whole life ...Holy Cow - I was a liberal Denocrat my whole life - I worked numerous jobs at the same time to put the kids through great schools. One is a Consertative Republican, one is a Socialitst and one a Democrat? how does this happen? Well, we sent them off and they started to think for themselves = Thank Gd. I imagine the same thing is happening at Duke to the students there. That is what I want - kids who can think for themselves.<BR/>BTW KC - the articles have been terrific.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com