Easley confirmed widely circulated rumors that Nifong had promised not to run for a full term when the governor made the original appointment.
"I almost un-appointed him when he decided to run," Easley told law school students. "I rate that as probably the poorest appointment that I've . . ."
The likely reason: Freda Black. It seems unlikely that Nifong shared with the governor his plans to immediately fire Black from her position. But he did so, and she responded by making plans to run for a full term herself. The result: if Nifong didn't run, too, he certainly would have been fired himself once Black became D.A.
In response to a question, Easley also said Nifong had handled the case poorly--but, added the governor, "you don't need me to tell you that."
The governor also severely criticized Nifong along the lines laid out by the state bar, focusing on the D.A.'s improper public statements and his decision to enter into an agreement with Dr. Brian Meehan to intentionally withhold exculpatory DNA evidence. He also said that Nifong's actions had harmed the image of North Carolina justice nationally.
An aside: doesn't it seem odd that, in making an important critique about the highest-profile case in years in his state, the governor delivers his remarks in New York?
266 comments:
1 – 200 of 266 Newer› Newest»on the previous thread, a commenter asked why the gov would appoint someone who agreed not to run, its a very valid question. why would the gov do that?, i dont buy it at all
Can't let the folks here in Carolina know how badly you hosed up on that decision, eh Easley? Well played, because we all know that since you gave the interview to some far up north Yankee we will never hear about it down here. Yep, slow movin' and dimwitted - that's how they like their electorate.
Saddest part of this is that Easley used to be the State AG. He should have known better. If I expand the accepted meaning of the word, I guess you could say that Gov. Easley "Nifonged" us.
I am a liberal Democrat from Durham NC. I am glad the governor has spoken on this issue. I firmly believe that the Justice system in NC, while not perfect, will prevail in this situation. I also believe the charges should be dropped as soon as possible, when the AG's office confirms that there was never enough incriminating evidence, and there was overwhelming exculpatory evidence.
Any idea why it took 10-11 days for the news of Easley's comments to get from NY to N&O?
SAVANT
Easley is a crook who appointed another crook. Easley will also appoint the local party hack to the bar committee investigating Nifong.
When his term is up?
I can see the campaign headlines already.."Easley - The Man Behind Mike Nifong"
TO the liberal dem from Durham who said: "I am glad the governor has spoken on this issue."
Why do you think it took Easley so long to speak up about this issue? Much of what he said, should have been said months ago.
I'd be interested in hearing the viewpoint from a liberal dem. Thanks.
This really is bad news for Nifong, since it removes even more of his political cover. The NC Bar can punish him much more severely than would be the case if the governor still were standing behind him.
Being a former prosecutor, I am sure that Easley understands the extent of the exculpatory evidence, and the way that Nifong did an end run around legal procesesses. By the way, in my answer to the "liberal Democrat" from Durham, I am glad that "justice" is going to prevail, but keep in mind that it took an extraordinary effort by many people and the spending of millions of dollars just to deal with a very, very transparent hoax.
Tell the Seligmanns, the Evanses, and the Finnertys that the "system works." For many months, the State of North Carolina has been spending resources and forcing those families to defend their sons, all so that a liberal Democrat could win an election.
So, please do not tell me that "the system works." What the hell kind of "justice" system promotes hoaxes over and over again, ruins lives, throws innocent people into prison and even onto death row. No, we see some form of "justice" prevailing despite the system.
By the way, the "system" in North Carolina is run by liberal Democrats, and it is the liberal Democrats that still are demanding trial and conviction. Guess what? All of the players from the NAACP to the various feminist groups to the Duke faculty ALL are liberal Democrats.
Yes, I am glad that you did not join in the lynch mob, and I am very glad to see that other liberal Democrats have played an important role in at least beginning to bring this hoax to an end. (Don't forget, AG Cooper, another liberal Democrat, still is officially pushing these false charges, and this case is not over until there is an acquittal or the charges are dismissed.)
But I have no confidence at all anymore in liberal Democrats as a whole guarding civil liberties. It used to be that liberal Democrats were a last bulwark against the erosion of rights, but that changed drastically with the Clinton Administration and the rot continues.
No, I am NOT a conservative Republican or even a Republican at all. But I can see that both parties have become a tag team against civil liberties. I'm just glad that a few rogues have been able to raise hell and expose this hoax for what it is.
Again, I am glad to hear your comments and commend you for making them. Please try to convert your other liberal Democrats to a system where there still are rights. That would be a worthy activity on your part -- and for the rest of us, too.
HELL YEAH BILL!!
Kemp
For many months, the State of North Carolina has been spending resources and forcing those families to defend their sons, all so that a liberal Democrat could win an election.
So, please do not tell me that "the system works."
The system works means it works for the democratic party. After all, they won the election. That's all they care. They (except JoeL) are happy to let Al-Qaida to win if it mean they win the next elections. Maybe if one day there are people like KJ on the democratic ticket I might vote for them. Unfortunately, 99.9% of dems are in the Al Sharpton/Mike Nifong bandwagon.
It's no secret to many North Carolinians that the "constituency" in Durham County is very important to the NC Democrat Party come election-time.
In the scheme of things, Durham County's bloc vote is oh so crucial to many local and/or statewide elections.
Naturally, the Governor(D), the AG(D), the Lt. Governor(D)*, the Durham Mayor(D), the Durham County Sheriff (D), the Durham County DA(D), the General Assembly (D majority), local Congressman David Price(D), the State Treasurer*(D)are not about to upset this "constituency". It would be political suicide.
* Running for Governor, 2008
It's curious that the N&O article wrote up the Meehan confession like this:
"he and the prosecutor agreed to withhold from a report test results that were favorable to the defense lawyers"
Those test results were far more favorable to the defendents than to their lawyers, even if the lawyers exhibited exceptional talents in prying the admission out of Meehan.
Insufficiently Sensitive
Liberal democrat Durhamite - triply redundant. Ok, some of them are more Trotskyites, some worship Fidel, there are the Che groupies, but all bow and pray to al Qaida. They want the destruction of America. The only squabble is on what totalitarian state they want to establish here. Godless and corrupt or Muslim and corrupt. I prefer the latter, as they will kill all the former. Yay!
Gun-totin' Durmite
Nifong agreeing not to run for a full term in order to obtain the office and then doing exactly the opposite is standard MO for him. Gov. Easly found out you can't trust this guy. This is another indicator that the LAX case is not the first time he lied, double-talked, bent the truth, was out for himself, let down the trust others placed in him......
K.C. is an excellent example of what a Democrat should be. In a very real sense, he is what the best of the Democrats used to be when they stood up for civil liberties and civil rights.
Now, as an economist, I am not much in favor of the New Deal and such, but we should remember that the New Deal programs actually were first developed by Republican administrations and then expanded and further developed by FDR. So, it is not a partisan thing when I criticize the New Deal.
However, give me a New Dealer who cares about rights and liberties, as opposed to people who might spout some rhetoric about rights, but then uses the power of the state to crush them.
Am I politically in agreement with everything that K.C. believes? No, but I really don't care about agreement. Here is a person who is committed to constitutional and civil rights -- and is well-respected in print and in the classroom. Compare him to many of the Democrats on the Duke faculty, and you can see that it is no contest. Game over.
Sounds strange. Why would you appoint someone and then ask him not to run? If he is not qualified, don't appoint him in the first place.
10:41am Bill Anderson:
"This really is bad news for Nifong, since it removes even more of his political cover. The NC Bar can punish him much more severely than would be the case if the governor still were standing behind him."
Bill, I suspect that Easley's support had been withdrawn privately long before that Jan 22 speech - the speech was just his way of letting the rest of the world know.
KC:
From the article - "..former District Attorney Ron Stephens..."
Odd that Neff & Niolet didn't point out that Stephens is more than a 'former DA' - he's one of the prime Nifong & Hoax enablers (NTO, McFayden email, etc).
All:
I too am surprised that this Jan 22 speech has taken so long to make it to the press. Seems like I saw a DIW commentor mention it the day of the speech, or the 23rd. Perhaps it took so long because the recording of the speech wasn't released immediately - I searched the NYU site for several days and never found a transcript.
All, part the deux:
Why did Easley take comfort in Nifong's alleged promise not to run for office? I suspect that Hardin & Stephens recommended Nifong as an adequate caretaker DA, but nothing more. I don't know what problems they had with Freda Black, other than (perhaps) her gender?
I do think Easley's comments bode well for the Duke players. I think the governor is making Nifong the fall guy, which implicitly gives permission to the AG and the special prosecutors to blame Nifong and drop the charges. At this point, the upper echelons of the Democratic political hierarchy are well aware that every word that is said about this case is taken to heart on a nationwide level. Easley did make the statement in New York , not Podunk.
To Bill Anderson:
As a person who has been put through the "system" and come out the other side as "not guilty", I can tell you that the "system" can work.
BUT, it took more than two years, all of my savings, my being unemployed for those two plus years, my father passing away before my being exonerated and having a "cloud" over my head for the rest of my life!
In a speakerphone conversation between my attorney (I was in his office but unannounced) and the acting US Attorney for my case, she congratulated my lawyer for a good job. He said it was easy because his client was innocent, and that he was dissappointed in his former Department for even prosecuting this case. Her response was that he may have gotten off, but we (the U.S. Gov't) got "ROUGH JUSTICE"!!!
Afterwards, my lawyer explained that Rough Justice was -- me being out of work for more than two years, my family's savings gone, my father passing away before seeing his son aquitted, and that I would have to explain the indictment for the rest of my working career.
The grand jury can indict a Ham Sandwich, but the sad fact is that it does not -- it indicts people and then they are screwed in every way that you can imagine!
That is also why my family has contributed to the defense fund for the three young men (info@truthandfairness.org).
Dear People,
Please understand -from a Native North Carolinian - The Raleigh News&Observer is an active political arm of the NC Democrat Party.
The motives of this paper should always be suspect.
Nobody is ever for real Civil Rights.....until they find themselves falsly accused. Then, oh boy get me a lawyer (preferably for free), get me a media guy (one with large breasts), and let me write my grievances in the NC papers. But until I get busted, I'm just another of the 88 with a different stance. Now let me go back to sleep.
Gov. Easley cannot be justifiably blamed for the Nifong appointment. He relied on recommendations from local politicians, and no one (at least not Easley) knew Nifong was scum. Easley did not have the advantage of this thread's 20-20 hindsight.
Easley can be blamed for this he-agreed-not-to-run stuff. Either Easley is inventing that story now in a pathetic CYA move or he should not have made the appointment. Why would you appoint a prosecutor in reliance on his agreement not to run for election. If he is not competent enough to run for office, then you should subject citizens to prosecutorial power for even a temporary period.
Bill Anderson said,
"But I can see that both parties have become a tag team against civil liberties."
Well stated.
Having Governor Easley speaking out against Nifong now is like Neville Chamberlain speaking out in 1940 and saying,"oh, my bad".
Now that Easley has come out with some long overdue criticism of Nifong, can Brodhead please follow his lead, and express even a small degree of outrage for the debacle visited upon three students of Duke, and upon Duke University itself, by a corrupt, self-serving mean-spirited Mike Nifong?
Brodhead... don't go on television again, serving up some lame excuses for your past behavior.
Step out... NOW... and on behalf of your students, and the Duke community, express your outrage!
I think Easley owes an explanation of why he felt it necessary to secure Nifong's agreement not to run. Sounds fishy to me and also undemocratic - where does a governor get the right to decide who runs for office?
bill anderson said...
"K.C. is an excellent example of what a Democrat should be. In a very real sense, he is what the best of the Democrats used to be when they stood up for civil liberties and civil rights."
Bill:
I'm sure the best of the Democrats did not include these guys:
The complete list of the 21 Democrats who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 includes Senators:
- Hill and Sparkman of Alabama
- Fulbright and McClellan of Arkansas
- Holland and Smathers of Florida
- Russell and Talmadge of Georgia
- Ellender and Long of Louisiana
- Eastland and Stennis of Mississippi
- Ervin and Jordan of North Carolina
- Johnston and Thurmond of South Carolina
- Gore Sr. and Walters of Tennessee
- H. Byrd and Robertson of Virginia
- R. Byrd of West Virginia
Regards,
Haywood Patterson
11:35
Re:Brodhead
Express OUR anger, resign, TODAY. Better yet at the UNC game!
Kemp
11:05: "Why would you appoint someone and then ask him not to run?".
Your above sentence is almost correct. The incorrectness is that it implies the appointment occured prior to the asking him not to run.
I hope you understand that those two events were coincident upon each other.
The way the N&O describes it, the appointing was done with the understanding and agreement that he wouldn't run later.
Easley owes NC voters clear statements on why he appointed someone whom he lack confidence in.
How many other officials has Easley appointed? And are they competent? Is Easley okay with them running for office when their appointed term concludes?
I find myself, everyday, hating democrats more. I feel betrayed by them. I thought they were for freedom? I thought they believed in standing up to the system? I thought they believed in equality? But more importantly, I thought they had the ability for self reflection and empathy.
Democrats, generally have been losing my support since 2002. I think this seals it.
I resent these people making me a de facto republican.
Brodhead resign - that's as likely as Nifong becoming a decent human being or Durham becoming a moral place. Easley knows his audience and they like drama and lies, not truth and decency. Brodhead was embroiled in a similar controversy at Yale and proved that he is no Giamatti. I would say that he is a spineless weasle but I don't want to insult weasles.
Now that Easley has seen his "I appointed Nifong on the condition he wouldn't run" story sucks, I think he should totally change it. That seems to work very well in NC.
How about a CGM approach?
I only said I appointed Nifong temporarily because I was upset, and anyway, no matter what happened...he screwed me?
Or a Group of 88 approach? I never appointed Nifong. I appointed someone like Nifong, in the sense of being the complete opposite of Nifong, as anyone who really reads that appointment can see"
Of course, Edwards should use a similar approach to un-naming Pandagon-ette.
Any that don't believe Democrats eat their own, in a very brutal way, need to start paying attention...
- R. Byrd of West Virginia
isn't he the former Klu Klux Klan grand master, legendary not just for fighting against the civil rights but also (along with Murtha) the biggest pork spender in congress. Great member of the democratic party!
KKK grand master? Where you from, boy? You not from aroun' hyeah!
Kleegles and wizards we have, masters, not so much anymore, not since those Yankees came down here and made us stop!
Oh, that's right - West By God Virginia was not extant as an independent state prior to the Civil War. But since we know all war is bad, we can ignore all that.
Where's my bumper sticker - I forgot what I think!
Howard, I've never been busted. Similarly, like Ving Rhames response to Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction, to paraphrase, "I'm a long @#$$%% way from anyone like the Gang of 88".
"I almost un-appointed him when he decided to run," Easley told law school students.
This is quintessential Democrat'ic' after-the-fact talking points.
John Kerry could not have said it better with his "I voted for the war before I voted against it."
Easley's comments are a day late and a dollar short. For someone in Easley's position, the time to speak out against a rogue prosecutor you appointed is not only after he's been exposed as a fraud and the tide of public opinion has swayed.
If Easley was so concerned about Nifong's unethical "hooligan" comment, why did he wait over 9 months to speak publicly against it? Nifong's comments to the media are no more wrong today than they were the day he made them last Spring.
Had Easley publicly shared his views prior to the election, perhaps the anti-Nifong vote would have carried the day. Easley clearly has no qualms about influencing an election -- nothing influences an election more than determinations of who will or will not run.
Easley's public statements now are nothing more than thinly veiled attempts to distance himself and the State of North Carolina from the political fallout and inevitable civil litigation soon to come.
Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan....not grand master.
No, you meant Grand Wizard Chess Player!
How to say you're sorry. Early in the case the future defendants would have done well to follow this example.
Turner Set To Apologize To Boston With A Check
"Saying you're sorry is nice, but money is what really talks.
Turner Broadcasting System is expected to pay a hefty bill related to a terrorist scare this week in Boston. The incident started Wednesday when a now-infamous marketing promotion for the company's Cartoon Network was mistaken for a threat. The expenses related to the ordeal led to demands for restitution."
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2007/02/02/0203bizturner.html
This blog has really gone to the dogs so to speak.
Every other post is a rant about something unrelated to the case, Democrats want Al Quada to rule the country, the intricacies of KKK title procedures, race and IQ, and the ever present and consistent undermining of rape as anything but a false accusation in most cases.
If you want to know why this case went off the rails look no further. Almost everyone here is pushing an agenda, political, racial or gender related.
Sticking to the actual facts and evidence in this case would have prevented a grave miscarriage of justice and would have deprived all of the agenda drivers from their respective bully pulpits.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15150202
Duke rape case D.A. faces big questions
Oct 9, 2006
DURHAM, N.C. - There’s not much middle ground in the legal community when it comes to opinions of local prosecutor Mike Nifong’s most famous case.
His law school classmate Patricia McDonald, citing “an utter lack of evidence that a crime even occurred,” wrote to Gov. Mike Easley and urged him to pressure Nifong into stepping aside in the Duke University lacrosse rape case.
-snip-
Gov. Easley, meanwhile, has no intention of asking Nifong to step aside, spokeswoman Sherri Johnson says.
One of the hallmarks of the radical professors is that they think, humpty-dumpty-like, that words mean whatever they want them to mean. It saddens me to see the same notion being embraced here in regard to the word "liberalism." Here is how Webster's defines the term:
Liberalism: "a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, and the self-regulating market c: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties."
Radical professors regard liberals as, at best, useful fools. They use the term "liberal" to convey contempt. Nothing, in their book, is more vile than "neoliberalism."
I do realize that it is a lexically conservative argument to contend that words should mean what the dictionary says they mean. I also realize that many (most?) self-proclaimed liberals have been so fooled by the radical left that they have become illiberal.
True liberalism is found today in the center of the American political spectrum.
Anti-Leftist Liberal
12:31, respectfully...these events did not occur in a vacuum. While I don't personally care for some of the posts, many do shed light on things that need to see the light of day, and do at some level touch this case...
Race frauds,
Gender study frauds,
Academic frauds,
Leadership frauds,
Journalist frauds,
Political frauds,
etc...
All are culpable at some level.
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. This blog does stick to the facts in my opinion. Just because a dog barks doesn't mean you have to agree with it.
12:45
Yes that is true and that is the problem. This case, the Duke case, is about three individuals who were falsely accused of rape, sexual assault and kidnapping by a fourth individual. This case, like every other case, is made up of specific unique facts.
When we turn this case into a stand in for an agenda and use it to show cultural, racial, political or gender trends we do no one any service.
Everyone is looking for the so called 'meta narrative' that fits their own world view: rich whites rape blacks, black racist community denies reality, politicians use people for their own needs, etc. etc.
All people do by turning the case into a symbol is make it just as easy for the next case to be turned into a symbol for the next set of causes by the next set of greedy, ambitious and unscrupulous people.
If this case and these facts had been looked at just as a case and not as a stand in for all the racial and economic 'injustices' of the past between blacks and whites it would never have moved out of the Durham local papers.
A single case can never be more than an anecdote. We, the public, the agenda drivers, turn these cases into symbols for good or ill.
I doubt if Reade, Colin and Dave care about being symbols, they want to get on with their lives.
12:31 - good point.
But let's not forget that at the center of this case is a woman who is an unwed mother of 3, who had DNA from 5 men in her body cavities after claiming she hadn't had sex in a week, was a "student" at a local black college, had made a previous false claim of rape, who is from all accounts, a bit unhinged, and yet, despite all that, set in motion a case that will forever follow the Duke LAX team, and to some extent, all those who got caught up in this mess.
If she ever told the truth, assuming she even has an idea of what the truth is, then much of this would recede into the paranoid delusions of the local conspiracy mongers.
And to touch on one last point, the correct nomenclature of Klan hierarchy is "Senior Senator from West Virginia, D".
Rant-free in D
"I almost un-appointed him when he decided to run," Easley said. "I rate that as probably the poorest appointment that I've," the governor trailed off before adding "I've made some good ones."
That is my story and I am sticking to it.
12:55
The only reason she was able to set the case in motion is because she was used by Mike Nifong as a symbol of the downtrodden black seeking justice and he was going to give it to her.
If the facts of this case had been evaluated absent any political agenda, any preconceptions about Duke, Duke athletes or white males it would never have even led to an arrest. My dear god, the police only interviewed the security guard ONCE. What kind of investigation is that?
But turning this case into a symbol of all that is wrong with the black community, liberal Democrats, the criminal justice system or the rape victim support community is no better than what Mike Nifong did.
12:31
Stick to the actual facts, huh?
I assume you are a Democrat, and I suppose the actual fact that this mess is entirely due to Democrat malfeasance doesn't set too well with you.
Sorry to deliver the bad news but it's factual.
12:59
You have overstepped - who said anything bad about the rape support community. I am part of that community, and the majority of rapes committed here in Durham are by black men - so don't even go down that road.
By saying that Nifong is the nexus of bad behavior may be accurate, but there are many bad actors in this play, not the least of which is Crystal Gail Mangum - about which I shall say no more - she is to be pitied more than reviled.
The lesson that should be learned from this case is of the danger of replacing facts and evidence with pre judgements and stereotypes.
That goes for everyone.
Increasingly, it appears that evidence and facts are secondary in many walks of life. As long as you can tap into some deep held beliefs, fears or predjudices then it's all good.
1:03.
Mike Nifong is a Democrat, he's also a middle aged white male, a lawyer, a married man, a dog owner, a lifelone resident of North Carolina and an elected official. Who is to say which of his many characteristics made him do what he did. Surely you can't believe all Democrats believe in fasely accusing innocent people for political gain? Or, maybe you do.
You choose to use Mike Nifong's malfeasance to smear the entire Democratic party, and that, in my humble opinion makes you no better than Mike Nifong.
Like I said, everyone has an agenda and wants to use these boys and their tragedy to make a larger point. That is what got this mess started in the first place.
Stick to the facts and the evidence.
12:31, thank you for expressing disgust with the extraneous, agenda-driven posts on this blog that make those of us interested in the case spend too much time skimming through those posts to get to the meaningful and relevant ones.
meanwhile, its super bowl weekend, GO COLTS!!!
Politics is the ultimate con game.
They make a lot of noise to convince us that they are doing something, but all they are doing is CYA.
If they were really capable of something, they would be CEOs in business.
Politicians are simply one of the expenses of being alive.
As I mentioned on the previous thread, Mike Easley is frantically attempting to rewrite history.
He has waited to this very last nanosecond---when only some Japanese farmer in the rural outskirts of Nara.....(far from the Mitsui capitalists who jump aboard the Bullet Train for their commute each day)....has not heard the irrefutable details of this travesty---to commnet at any length about the man he appointed and was his buddy.
Until his buddy showed the world the type of scumballs who run amok in the courtrooms of NC.
Mike Easley needs----besides a speech therapist to rid him of that grating coastal drawl----to admit that he appointed a criminal to be DA in Durham.
And he sat back for months knowing that fact.
Debrah
You have overstepped - who said anything bad about the rape support community. I am part of that community, and the majority of rapes committed here in Durham are by black men - so don't even go down that road.
And what is the age range for the majority of those men? Perhaps 18-25/29?
(The years of highest testosterone activity in males.)
Also, what is the usual age range of their victims? 15-35? Probably peaking at 19-23, the years of peak fertility in women?
But turning this case into a symbol of all that is wrong with the black community, liberal Democrats, the criminal justice system or the rape victim support community is no better than what Mike Nifong did.
12:59 PM
Dear Pollyanna:
The state of the black community, liberal democrats, and the criminal justice system created Mike Nifong and cheered on as he attempted to destroy the lives of three young men.
"symbol"?
Please see:
"The press called them the Scottsboro Boys, and for many in America their plight became a symbol of the oppression faced by black Americans in a region where white supremacy was an uncontested fact of life."
http://query.nytimes.com/
gst/fullpage.html?res=
9F07E5DA133CF930A35757C0A962958260
and
e. Scottsboro Boys: Nine African-American men convicted of the rape of two white women
on a train near Scottsboro, Ala. The case became a symbol for the injustices of the southern
legal system in the 1930s.
http://www.archives.state.al.us
/teacher/dep/dep5/dep.html
Regards,
Haywood Patterson
See what I mean?
Testosterone and fertility rates? What does that have to do with rape? I already know the answer, which is the AGENDA that rape is driven by biological imperatives. Young people also tend to be more reckless and engage in risk taking activities more often than older people and statistically speaking a large percentage of crimes are committed by those 25 and under.
I already know the answer, which is the AGENDA that rape is driven by biological imperatives.
People of low IQ are unable to distinguish observations from agendas. Sigh.
Dear Haywood Patterson.
Thanks for calling me a Pollyana for stating that this case and all cases should be decided and viewed in terms of evidence and facts not archtypes.
Archtypes and mythmaking belong in fiction, not law.
I guess if "they" do it then "you" can do it. That's a recipe for exactly what we have in this country, polarization and ideology driven discussions that cherry pick facts for all sides and all agendas, which is why we can't get anything done anymore.
"You choose to use Mike Nifong's malfeasance to smear the Democratic Party....."
Well.......yeah.......ya think they might be related?
A gigantic umbrella of "diverse" opinions all royally fright-nighted and pussy-whipped by the black vote.
Oh yes.....or to use courtroom chirps----"O yea! O yea! O yea!" "Let's have this court come to order!"
Debrah
1:24
My IQ is 136. I am very able to distinguish an agenda from an observation and also an agenda that seeks to masquerade as a neutral observative.
Nice try.
1:22
I think that 1:19 meant that the women were asking for it.
Apparently Crystal Gail Mangum's customers were paying for it. Only they weren't LAX players.
Did anyone run a paternity test on Nifong to see if he was the father of CGM's latest welfare payment addition?
I'm sorry to say the posts of the last few minutes have confirmed my first post about the blog going to the dogs.
I made an observation that this case was now being used by all sides to further their own political, gender, and racial agendas. What happened? I am attacked as a Pollyana, a 'liberal' Democrat and my IQ is questioned.
Thanks for playing.
1:09
You wrote
"You choose to use Mike Nifong's malfeasance to smear the entire Democratic party, and that, in my humble opinion makes you no better than Mike Nifong.
Like I said, everyone has an agenda and wants to use these boys and their tragedy to make a larger point. That is what got this mess started in the first place"
No agenda here...
This tragedy was inspired by operatives of the Democrat Party. And now it is promoted and driven by operatives of Democrat Party.
If this is not facual, state evidence to the contrary.
I'm sorry to say the posts of the last few minutes have confirmed my first post about the blog going to the dogs.
I'm sure it doesn't normally take until this late in the day to have your prejudices confirmed. However, it is the weekend.
Regards,
Haywood Patterson
in an interview in the N&O in april '06 during the primary for durham DA, keith bishop, a candidate said...."When you've got a town that has less than 300,000 people and 70,000 criminal cases a year, in my view there's a breakdown of justice," Bishop said. "There's an urgency for Durham to be repaired." i have no idea if his stats are correct but if they are, everyone can calm down because over the next for 4 years it appears that everyone in durham will be in the criminal justice system
Mike Nifong as a symbol of the ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Okay, no agenda there.
1:09 PM
"Mike Nifong is a Democrat, he's also a middle aged white male, a lawyer, a married man, a dog owner..."
Nice attempt to blur the contributing factors. Nifong and the NC Democrat-ic party do share a strong resemblance in their pandering to the minority 'block' vote... and that is part of this case and this discussion.
Dem politics affected the actions of key players in the case, and continues to have an influence on the AG's and governor's actions today.
Show we the same "Border Collie Owners Assoc." connection and I'll put a dog in that fight as well... Otherwise, stop the smoke.
PS
It isn't Democrat Party it's Democratic Party. I wonder why the poster calls it the Democrat Party. No I don't.
No.
POLITICS affected the actions of the key player in this case: Mike Nifong. Not Democratic or Republican politics, but politics.
But, this is arguing against the wind.
The reason Mike Nifong chose to use this case to further his re election campaign is BECAUSE HE IS A DEMOCRAT. Not becuase he is an unprincipled, incompetant, unprofessional sleaze bag that couldn't have gotten elected on the merits of his record. Nope. It is BECAUSE HE IS A DEMOCRAT.
Whatever people.
I suspect there have been back channel efforts for some time trying to get Mike Nifong to do the right thing. It would be interesting to know who knew what when...when did Easley get the nod about the bar complaint, why did they wait until after the election to file it...
It would seem strange for Easley to flat out lie about Mike Nifong's appointment, so I tend to think he's telling the truth and can probably back it up with comments he made to others at the time. Interim appointments are made all the time, though again it seems odd for him to have picked Nifong if he didn't expect him to run instead of Freda Black who he knew intended to run unless he's got a problem with Freda....
Everyone in an official capacity to put the brakes on Nifong's case acted very cowardly.
But, I still believe Nifong never intended to take the case to trial. He always planned on dropping it some time in 2007, his problem was that the case itself started to fall apart almost immediately and once he had let the race genie out of the bottle he had to play it through. He couldn't have dropped the case before Nov and won the election. He couldnt' keep the case alive through Nov. without breaking the rules....
1:26 PM
"My IQ is 136."
Don't you read this blog? IQ does not exist... and if you think it does, you must have a low one.
Went out to my favorite Italian restaurant last night.....and afterward some of us held court over drinks until way past the midnight hour.
This case is all people want to talk about. IMO, It's going to serve as a real catalyst to change the way many Americans think about justice and race issues.
Even though Reade, Collin, and David have been through hell....being "Nifonged" for all the world to see.....their hell has illuminated--in bold relief---what the ultra-Liberals have done to our culture and the justice system.
The plaintiffs bar has destroyed the livelihoods of many---John-boy Edwards has made millions on the backs of individuals whose insurance premiums have been raised so high that they must go without health insurance.......as his fat-ass-feminist-slobbering wife loads up on all the doughnuts in the marketplace.....
.....while living in an over 6 million abode. Even if that abode is a dowdy and provincial mansion, it is still blood money from those whose hiked insurance premiums are paying the price.
And now we have a case to illuminate the horrendous effects of dishonest and criminal prosecutors.
Sweet justice.
Debrah
Debrah,
You rock, grrl! Two pussy-whipped blasts and a his "fat-ass-feminist-slobbering wife loads up on all the doughnuts in the marketplace" blast in 2 days! That can't be topped!
And isn't "criminal prosecutors" redundant?
And no sweet justice, no sweet peace, eh? No woman no cry.
Take that, IQ boys!
I still think it takes chutzpah to appoint a DA with the understanding he will not run.
It is my impression that all you need is a law degree to run for DA in NC.
1:55 - I think I speak for all of us when I say "Nifong has a law degree?"
JLS says....
Nifong is a bow and scrape to the boss bully. He probably said something like I have no plans to run for DA when Easley interviewed him. Easley is now calling that vague statement a promise.
It likely was not a promise. Easley probably does not care who is DA in Durham. Easley took cues from the local party people on who to appoint as a GOP govenor would have too both looking for local support in their next statewide campaign.
As for Bill Anderson's posts they are spot on. The justice system is not working nor very well constructed when an obvious hoax can go on for almost a year. And a party can not both be for group rights and individual rights. The Democrat party has a history of supporting group rights in slavery, Jim Crow and now interst group politics at the expense of individual rights. All that changes from generation to generation among Democrats seems to be whose ox is being gored.
Again, I am happy if the folk on these posts are not cursing or discussing body parts. Just skip over the clowns. Who cares about them? Does not make sense for Easley to say "He said he would not run." Nifong would not have fired Black. In the real world, people do not go from Manager to worker bee in the same company. Nifong was not going to fool around with the power structure. In the beginning, I don't think The Dems thought there was a down side.
I have always been a bit curious about this "Nifong firing Black" issue. With all the protection the govt bees have, how did that happen, and why?
A healthy two-party system is in the best interest of any electorate.
The NC Democrat Party has taken for granted the weak and vulnerable citizens it pretends to champion.
NC Democrats are conflicted in regard to the tragedy in Durham. Too bad they can't blame it on George Bush.
Could a healthy two-party system have prevented the mess in Durham?
Probably.
i was a life long Kennedy Democrat until the hearing on John Roberts and Sam Alito. Two brillant men wtih a lot to offer the country. All the Dems including Ted only wanted to talk abortion. The country has enormous problems - abortion is not one of them. For the first time ever, I voted Republican in the last election. I am much more atoned to Rudy and John McCain.
Does anyone know if there was some kind of bad blood between Freda Black and the Governor?
Why else not appoint Freda as the DA, after her successes with high profile cases? Maybe Freda was a threat?
It was the Republicans not the Democrats that made appointing supreme court justices with an eye to overturning Roe V. Wade that put abortion center stage. And another unrelated agenda surfaces.
In which case perhaps Nifong was appointed with an understanding that he (Nifong) would fire her.
Darn, I can just hear the G88 feministas now.
Isn't Barack Obama's chef merde a great title for a porno film?
The Audacity of Hope
Although the Democratic party had broken apart in 1860, during the secession crisis Democrats in the North were generally more conciliatory toward the South than were Republicans. They called themselves Peace Democrats; their opponents called them Copperheads because some wore copper pennies as identifying badges.
A majority of Peace Democrats supported war to save the Union, but a strong and active minority asserted that the Republicans had provoked the South into secession; that the Republicans were waging the war in order to establish their own domination, suppress civil and states rights, and impose "racial equality"; and that military means had failed and would never restore the Union.
Peace Democrats were most numerous in the Midwest, a region that had traditionally distrusted the Northeast, where the Republican party was strongest, and that had economic and cultural ties with the South. The Lincoln administration's arbitrary treatment of dissenters caused great bitterness there. Above all, anti-abolitionist Midwesterners feared that emancipation would result in a great migration of blacks into their states.
As was true of the Democratic party as a whole, the influence of Peace Democrats varied with the fortunes of war. When things were going badly for the Union on the battlefield, larger numbers of people were willing to entertain the notion of making peace with the Confederacy. When things were going well, Peace Democrats could more easily be dismissed as defeatists. But no matter how the war progressed, Peace Democrats constantly had to defend themselves against charges of disloyalty. Revelations that a few had ties with secret organizations such as the Knights of the Golden Circle helped smear the rest.
The most prominent Copperhead leader was Clement L. Valladigham of Ohio, who headed the secret antiwar organization known as the Sons of Liberty. At the Democratic convention of 1864, where the influence of Peace Democrats reached its high point, Vallandigham persuaded the party to adopt a platform branding the war a failure, and some extreme Copperheads plotted armed uprisings. However, the Democratic presidential candidate, George B. McClellan, repudiated the Vallandigham platform, victories by Maj. Gen. William T. Sherman and Phillip H. Sheridan assured Lincoln's reelection, and the plots came to nothing.
With the conclusion of the war in 1865 the Peace Democrats were thoroughly discredited. Most Northerners believed, not without reason, that Peace Democrats had prolonged war by encouraging the South to continue fighting in the hope thatthe North would abandon the struggle.
1:56
"The justice system is not working nor very well constructed when an obvious hoax can go on for almost a year."
Indeed: the remarkable longevity of this dopey attempt at a frame-up shows clearly just how broken the J-system is. Whatever other frame-ups exist -- and we should assume there are some, possibly even many -- are not likely to have been quite as amateurishly constructed as this one.
Any movie where the doings of the "bad guys" were this obvious would seem like sheer laziness on the writer's part.
Anon 2:05 PM
Thank you for providing an opening for the introduction of the term "borked" into the discussion. Before one could be nifonged, or even receive a lewinsky, outstanding judges were being borked by immoral lowlifes like Teddy "The Swimmer" Kennedy. It's also funny that Democrats were the genesis of these three terms. They just have a gift.
I am much more atoned to Rudy and John McCain.
I wasn't aware you had a lot to atone for. Are you white perhaps?
I think it's an interesting question.
It would appear on the face of it that Freda Black was more qualified to be the DA than Mike Nifong. She showed she can win the big base and she did well dealing with the national media.
Therefore, why the gov. chose Nifong instead of Freda could be enlightening also as to why he was allowed to run roughshod for almost a year before anyone in power bothered to even criticize him.
It also is a pretty clear and public message to the AG to cut the cord on Mike Nifong and bury him.
You might want to be careful criticizing the Democrats considering the track record of the recent national Republican leadership.
Bill Anderson:
Justice will not prevail until:
1. Crystal Gail Mangum is charged with a felony
2. Angry Studies at Duke is defunded
3. Nifong is CRIMINALLY charged
4. All the lying cops and Meehan are charged with felonies
5. Brodhead and his enabling trustees are sent packing
6. the boys are beneficiaries of huge settlements from Duke, G88, Durham, and Nifong & Co
What you have now is standard crap--not justice.
Polanski
JLS says....
Drat like many here I got a bit side tracked and forgot to second Bill Anderson in the BIG NEWS in this. Nifong is a very very very very lonely man today.
This is in fact a signal to the AG and Bar that it is open season on NIfong. Nifong's attorney today is in a worse plea bargain position.
Also on the political front this shows the NC Demoocrats feel this could cost them more white votes than it would cost them black votes. And remember that a vote switching from the Democrats to the GOP is more costly to a party than a vote sitting home.
Everybody, including Easley, would have been perfectly fine with this case if Nifong had gotten away with his convictions. They waited with fingers crossed, just as the G88 did (though the G88 had committed it's damage already, and so now must remain quiet.)
If Nifong was successful in his railroading (it does happen routinely in America), would any of these Fine People have stood up for justice after the injustice?
No, even after the travesty was revealed, they were all waiting to see which way the wind was going to blow, to see if in the fourth quarter Nifong would pull off a miracle. Cowards of a criminal order.
The problem with a plea bargain for Nifong is that what he did is even more reprehensible than first degree murder.
Mike Easley has been forced to take the position he is now taking. IIRC, he got his law degree from N.C. Central. His wife, the witchy-looking Mary, used to teach there.
Both are tethered to people like the irrational and embarrassing Irving Joyner.
Easley would most certainly still be on board with Nifong's race-baiting if not for the blogs and outside illumination of this nasty mess.
You never get anywhere by cutting corners.
You never achieve authentic relationships or equality in any arena by placating and condescending to others......which has been the platform of the Democratic Party for half a century.
To wit: The hair follicle-challenged Joe Biden. He messed up and said how he really feels. LOL!!!
Honestly, Mike Easley has never come across as being very bright. His dimbulb mentality could possibly account for his late arrival at the truth.
Debrah
Preach on, 12:31. It's pretty sad when 90% of the comments here are from nutjobs who, if they were left-wing nuts instead of right-wing nuts, would fit right in with the Group of 88.
Gone to the dogs, indeed.
Governors, Attorneys General, Special Prosecutors and Congressmen rarely get nvolved in ongoing criminal cases. Politicans and lawyers are always concerned about precedent...if you got involved in X case, why not Y...that is most of the reason nobody stepped in.
I imagine that Mike Nifong had to have the proverbial gun put to his head in order to get him to recuse himself and ask for the AG to take over the case. Once he did that he had to know his career was over. The fact that people were probably telling him, dropping hints the size of freight trains for months on end and he still refused to do anything until the bar filed its complaint publicly shows how unprofessional and fundamentally stupid the guy is.
JLS says....
re: 2:31
Nifong will cop a plea. Nifong nor NC nor the NC DAs want a public hearing on Nifong's behavior.
Nifong will likely accept guilt for the public statements, give up his law license and the DAs job but retain his pension and NC will agree not to prosecutre him. Nifong accepts this deal because he wants his pension. NC and the NC Bar offer this deal because they want this to go away as quietly as possible with as little focus on the rules there as possible.
This deal will leave the issue of Nifong hiding evidence unresolved. This will leave any criminal charges against Nifong the the DOJ.
Anon 2:19
The Republicans in national office certainly have disappointed me, but for completely different reasons than they have disappointed liberals. I fault the Republicans for being gutless when dealing with Democrat-ick obstructionists. For prosecuting our Marines who kidnapped and killed a terrorist rather than awarding them medals of valor. For not shutting down our Southern border pronto after 9/11. For giving Bill Clinton a platform to travel the globe with Bush 41, and then stab Bush 43 in the back every single chance he gets. For not insisting that Sandy Burglar take that lie detector test. For allowing US Atty Fitzgerald to nifong Scooter Libby. For not letting our troops return fire when it comes from a mosque. For not paying closer attention to 20 year old male muslims at airports, while frisking 80 year old grandmas. For allowing the al-NY Times to expose our efforts to monitor communications of would-be terrorists. For making Treason an unpunishable crime. Yes, I am somewhat disappointed with our cuurent GOP crop of eunuchs.
2 41
I disagree.Not in the sunshine.
Almost forgot!
Yesterday afternoon while shopping at the market I ran into--almost literally---a guy who is attending Duke law school. He was wearing a Duke jersey and I asked him if he went there. He has an undergraduate degree from Duke as well and obviously is seasoned in the Duke-Durham milieu.
We talked at some length about the lacrosse case.....kibitzing between the meat department and the wine aisle.
Miles of aisles!
I was so impressed with him and told him to start checking out this blog. He said he would.
Also, he thinks that Brodhead will be slowly nudged out......perhaps within 2 years. Everyone on campus is disappointed in him and suffers the residue of this case and how the administration handled it.
He is a former football player....not a lacrosse player.
This guy was so thoughtful, intelligent, and.......hot!
Oh, to be a university student again. :>)
Debrah
2:43
Kidnapped and killed what terrorist? I think you mean shot down in cold blood Iraqi citizens that were already bound and in custody. In America, you get a trial before execution, no matter who you are. Summary executions of people that are cuffed is murder.
Americans shooting up mosques will be broadcast around the Arab world as more "evidence" of our desire to kill Arabs and our hatred of all muslims. The very fact that our troops would be put in such a ridiculous position of not being able to return fire due to the political impact is exactly why we don't belong over there trying to sow democracy at the butt of a gun.
But it takes all kinds. And another agenda surfaces.
I'm a staunch Democrat but I hate the far left... maybe as much as the far right, although the far left at least has to think about what they believe (as compared to the far, far right, where everything is a matter of faith).
Anyway, I agree that the vast majority of Republican posters here have their heads as far up their bee-hinds as the Cindy Sheehans, Jane Fondas, and Tim Robbins of the left.
At least we can all agree that Nifong is a piece of garbage and that he is the true criminal here (as well as the accuser).
Democrat Justice at Work
Rockingham, NC:
On January 2 of this year, Rev. Melvin Bynum was sentenced to 7 years in jail for the murder of his wife. He strangled her to death and placed her body in the trunk of a car.
7 years? You get more time if you are convicted of income tax evasion.
Oh, forget to mention the Democrats involved.
W. David Lee(D) Superior Court Judge
Michael Parker(D) District Attorney
2:54
Me too.
I don't know whether to be happy or sad that the blog has now gone from bashing rape victims to bashing members of the "Democrat" party.
Yeah, take it easy on the Dems, the Republican Congress (now deceased) and the President are almost uniformly considered a joke to those who aren't on the far, far right. Plus, Antonin Scalia thinks that, IF the government wanted to, it should be able to regulate behavior through legislation, including but not limited to having hetero oral sex.
And then there are turds like Bill O'Really and Tubs Limbaugh. If these guys aren't caricatures, I don't know what one is. Hmmmm, let us liberals make a movie making Republicans look bad... lets really play on the negative stereotypes... is Rush Limbaugh available?
12:54 I think it more a case of determing the root cause and about creating symbols.
Rosa Parks is a symbol, but was not the root cause of the problem that led to hear acting.
Reverend Bind'em represents at least 1000 votes. He tells the flock how to vote, and they merrily comply. Seven years means he only misses one presidential election cycle.
2:54 "staunch Democrat"
How staunch are you? Let's go fishing, shall we?
Staunch Democrats traditionally support academic welfare for minorities; affirmative action; redistribution of wealth; promote dependence on government; promote minorities as victims; support stupid policies like NCLB even though IQ data prove the act can never achieve its objective
Timmy, in short:
Are you an idealist?
Polanski
1:09 As an objective observer it seems to me that the Democrats have done an admirable job of smearing themselves by what they have done, and left undone.
I am Republican, Bush Supporter, Nifong Hater. I despise O'R and Limbaugh and the religous idiots - though I do watch O'R because there is nothing else on tv.
Putting people into convenient labelled boxes often does not work.
When Easley runs for another office, he'll be wearing Mike Nifong during the entire campaign. I'm sure he knows this and it can't be very comforting.
***Staunch Democrats traditionally support academic welfare for minorities; affirmative action; redistribution of wealth; promote dependence on government; promote minorities as victims; support stupid policies like NCLB even though IQ data prove the act can never achieve its objective***
Step 1: Create strawman
Step 2: Attribute beliefs and words to said strawman
Step 3: Attack strawman's logic
Step 4: Enjoy an easy argument won against a ridiculous non-entity that doesn't even exist.
At least we can all agree that Nifong is a piece of garbage and that he is the true criminal here (as well as the accuser).
2:54 PM
For me, that is the greatest thing about this blog.
I am embarrassed to say that I was surprised to find people of so many different political stripes agreeing that this whole thing was a hoax.
Regards,
Haywood Patterson
The small percentage of people who still approve of Bush's performance should probably be stripped of their right to vote. Guy had carte blanche to do whatever he wanted with his war. He ignored contrary advice and opinions about said war, pulled the most important spec ops from Afghanistan to hunt Saddam Hussein, and each day bin Laden lives on is another day of embarassment and shame for the United States.
Remamber that bin Laden guy? COme on George Bush, don't embarass us. 9/11 was the the beginning of your Presidency. If this clown lives past your presidency, I'll be at a loss for words. Oh wait, hin Laden isn't important anymore right (or whatever the ridiculous quote Bush used was).
2:54
I don't recall this blog bashing rape victims. Bashing false accusers, sure. Bashing an overzealous lying DA, definitely. The people here typically have tremendous compassion for genuine rape victims. This blog is about a non-rape that led to a false prosecution by disturbed, corrupt DA.
I am a Democrat, Bush despiser, Nifong hater. I am against affirmative action, higher taxes and gun control. I am pro choice, pro privacy, pro due process, pro environment and pro death penalty.
What in god's name does that prove or have to do with this case?
TO 2:59PM--
Live with it. Or take substantive steps to change the horrific pathologies that are so cancerous and damaging to others and which are cultivated by the illogical Liberal Democrats of this country.
Only nuts stay around such people. I ran away for dear life from that idiocy a decade ago. I am pro-choice and socially progressive; however, the Democratic Party holds no place for rational people.
Mack Truck Hillary and Slick Willie---with his Peyronese-diseased member---were a huge reason for many to bid adieu.
Hey, but all was not lost. It was widely reported by some of Bill Clinton's "squeezes" that his member veers to the Left.
Isn't that convenient?
Debrah
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Justice happens by accident. All else is politics. Until it happens to you or me, saving the falsely accused is too boring, too much work, and or so risky. Bill Anderson, please, write a kick-ass book after this game of musical chairs is over and everyone has stated their official position. Meanwhile, let's hope this happy accident of Justice comes in at less than $10 million total. Hat tip to all who stand up to be counted when they do not have to.
"I am a Democrat, Bush despiser, Nifong hater. I am against affirmative action, higher taxes and gun control. I am pro choice, pro privacy, pro due process, pro environment and pro death penalty. "
It's got to be tough being a Democrat these days.
JLS says....
re: 2:53
I think you mean shot down in cold blood Iraqi citizens that were already bound and in custody. In America, you get a trial before execution, no matter who you are. Summary executions of people that are cuffed is murder.
Wow, I dont think I have seen anyone comment with less knowledge on something in a long time.
1. Iraq is not America. It is in Asia actually. Or are you claiming someone in America cuffed some Iraqi citizen and summary executed them?
2. Summary execution of illegal combatents is not necessarily murder. The rules of war that makes one subject to summary execution if one fights not in uniform is DESIGNED TO PROTECT NONCOMBATENTS ie civilians.
3. In war the laws of peacetime do not apply. That is why it is dangerous to attack other countries as happened to the US in 2001.
Sorry to interject some facts into this, but this one issue is too important, more important than DAs railroading innocent people to let it pass. Now we can get back the Democrat propoganda wave that has overtaken this thread.
Well, if you were to usher aside the reactionaries who wanted this thing to have happened (the ones who balance off those on the right who KNEW it DIDN'T happen bases solely upon the race of the accuser and the accused)...
Come on, lets be honest, aside from this case, only special interest groups like the ACLU and criminal defense attorneys are going to carry on the cause against prosecutorial abuse. Everyone here will move on. There have been cases where innocent men on death row have been exonerated and innocents accused SINCE this case started and we don't hear a peep.
So I'm not quite sure why you would think only Republicans would support 3 boys who appear 100% innocent and think the Democrats would be supporting the prosecutor gone wild. I don't think most ACLU members are card-carrying REpublicans. I don't know though, because I'm not a member of the ACLU.
Mr Patterson
People with common sense have more in common than one might think, regardless of their politics.
3 13
Can I assume you are are sophomore?
***however, the Democratic Party holds no place for rational people.***
And when George Bush talks to GOd looking for advice about how to run things on the ground in Iraq, we understand why the Re-Pube-Lick party is the party of "rational people".
3 13
So why did you post it?
Mr Patterson
People with common sense have more in common than one might think, regardless of their politics.
3:18 PM
Sadly, common sense has become too uncommon.
Haywood Patterson
If not for the “in-power” party with its monopolistic grip on the Statehouse, the Court Houses, and for good measure, Academia, then characters like Mike Nifong would not be so emboldened.
Since the NC Democrats have been in control since 1879, they feel they have the mandate to conduct the peoples’ business as they see fit. I suppose if the Republicans had been in control, lo these many years, then perhaps they may acted similarly.
If ever there was a wake-up call for North Carolinians, then this is it.
3:13 "reasonable Democrat"
You sound more like a libertarian to me. Both the Democrat and Republican parties have been corrupted.
A "staunch" Democrat resembles a Communist.
And if you cannot point out pathetic truths about black Democrats, then why bother posting here?
Here's the sad truth: Durham is a microcosm of black hegemony and political might--and these 3 boys' lawyers were forced to submit a change of venue motion. THAT'S FUCK'N OUTRAGEOUS.
You doofuses who think this case is about 1 false allegation are deluding yourselves.
Polanski
3:17
Obviously the killings did not meet the military code of justice for enemy combatants or the military would not be chargings these soldiers with MURDER.
In other words your entire post is a worthless diatribe that is not reality based. If the military believed the "executions" to be lawful no one would have been charged with murder.
Thankfully, it appears that our military leadership still believe that shooting down your enemy while he is handcuffed then restaging the scene and saying they were shot during an escape is not indicative of military values or American values or, indeed, the values of any civilized society.
Hahaha, a guy who voted for Cheney & Bush-face calls other people "irrational". Rationality has to be judged by society as a whole. As a Bush supporter, you are in the minority unlike nearly any supporter of any modern American President.
But hey, that doesn't mean you CAN'T call other people irrational, just because you are one of the few, proud Bush-face supporters. Wear it on your sleeve. Its a free country (thanks to brave patriots like Bill O'Reilly, Tubs Limbaugh and Mark Levin).
I am a libertarian, but I would contend that overall, the Democratic Party is more aligned with libertarian views than the Republican.
If given a choice between the "mommy" state the liberal democrats desire, where they "help" me do the right thing, eat the right foods and so forth or the Republican "big brother" state where they force me to live by a conservative, christian morality, I am sad to say, I have to choose the mommy state and hope to keep their worst impulses in check.
As for the person who accused a straw man of making a bunch of the racist posts on this website... lets just say it isn't beyond comprehension that the Republican answer to Cindy Sheehan, Jane FOnda et al. is actually posting their true feelings on this board.
It would not surprise me one bit if those were genuine posts.
One thing I find hilarious is that Bill O'Reilly paid a few hot MILL to that loofah girl and then people look to O'Reilly as a moral compass. At least the far left doens't pretend to have THE moral vision for the country.
TO 3:21PM---
You can assume that I need to correct the spelling as a nod to total accuracy. The term for a man having scar tissue on his member, causing it to be crooked is (Peyronie's disease).
Clinton's reportedly crooks to the Left. Appropo, no?
As a result of Bill Clinton's almost maniacal need to pull down his pants every time a redneck girl or a chubby intern walked into a room.....they blabbed about him afterward.
Does that bother you? Then take it up with the Clintons.
LOL!!!
When Hillary Mack Truck is on the campaign trail someone ought to ask her to return the hundreds of thousands of White House furnishings that these kleptomaniacs lifted before leaving. Priceless items that were donated by members of the public.
Those people are like Dukes of Hazzard with an education. You can take the hick out of Hicksville, but you can't take Hicksville out of the hick.
Some of us miss his dear departed mother. Loved the skunk-streaked-buffont-racetrack-gambler who raised such a dirty boy.
Debrah
The entire point of the system of government, that whole checks and balances thing, and the multi party system is to prevent ongoing hegemony.
When the Democrats had a long time majority they stuck the country with a host of social engineering policy failures designed to use the government to "correct" problems that were much to complex for a quick fix like affirmative action.
When the Republicans, the new Republicans, evangelicals not Rockefeller Republicans, took power they did exactly the same thing attempting to use government to impose a conservative christian morality code on education and medical issues best left outside of government interference. They also embarked on an unprecedented assault on civil liberty and due process.
When we have NOT had single party control at the national level it has forced everything to the center, where it belongs, where most of America "is" and where we should be.
Debrah,
Is there a need to be so crude on something as off topic as Bill Clinton's penis and his alleged sex life?
One thing I agree with Re-Pube-Licks on is the whole HPV vaccination thing. Just because we have a vaccination that might prevent 80% of the cervical cancer in America, doesn't mean we should support it.
After all, without HPV infecting 60% of women above the age of 50, young teenage girls are going to be SO mucn more likely to have sex.
Thank God for the party of "rational people", the Re-Pube-Lick party!!!
re Republican, Democrat
These words, as stand-alones, are unconstitutionally vague. I suspect that if people were to write their philosophy of life in 2 sentences, there would be more harmony.
Whoever uses the word "racist," another pseudoconcept, please elaborate. Is it racist to discuss black academic failure at elite institutions like Duke?
Stop bullshitting, and tell me what's on your mind. O'Reilly and Limbaugh are not on my wave-length, either.
Polanski
3:40
Well, you know, if you make sure that young girls still might get cervical cancer from having sex, its easier to keep them virgins until marriage.
For those women who go ahead and have sex without getting the vaccine, well, it is god's will if they cervical cancer and it serves them right for having sex anyway.
We are way, way, way off topic now.
"At least the far left doens't pretend to have THE moral vision for the country."
3:33
Maybe you haven't been reading this blog long enough. The Gang of 88 (a classic example of the far left) does pretend to have "THE" moral vision for this country, which they have demonstrated. It is identical to that of their fellow travelers.
***For those women who go ahead and have sex without getting the vaccine, well, it is god's will if they cervical cancer and it serves them right for having sex anyway.***
Thats what I mean! The Democrat party has no rational people... whereas the Republicans are not only rational, they can talk to God, making them uber-rational (fighting the impulse to use super-liberal words like "uber").
Loofah values.
3:40:
You sound like a Bears fan. Am I right?
Haywood Patterson
Fellow Bears Fan
Both sides of the ideological spectrum seek to IMPOSE their own view of how the world should be on the rest of the country.
The far left and the far right are equally culpable and equally prone to ignore inconvenient facts that don't support their own morally superior and highly judgemental value system.
Ideology bad. Evidence good.
Polanski
If you were black, how would you feel?
***Ideology bad. Evidence good.***
I agree 100% with this statement which is why when anyone ever brings God into a debate, they should be tarred and feathered. Your beliefs in unprovable things are not persuasive in arguments.
3:45
I don't think it's rational to be against a vaccine that can prevent a deadly form of cancer because you "think" that girls who know they are protected from cervical cancer will have sex they would not have had without the vaccine. Where's the evidence? Where's even a hint of evidence?
There isn't any evidence because it's morality trying to masquerade and policy. ALL actual evidence points to the fact that the more you teach about birth control and the easier it is to get the lower the rate of unintended pregnancy. Teenagers in Europe get pregnant at a much, much lower rate than American teens and they also have sex later than our kids do.
I'm not against the vaccine, I'm just against it being available to those who it could help the most. You know, because vaccines that might theoretically take some of the stigma off of premarital sex make Jesus cry.
If I were black, I'd be pissed off--like Juan Williams and Shelby Steele. I'm incredibly liberal on a lot of issues--especially if they are grounded in good social policy. If a single mother needs help with daycare, give it to her. It'll pay off over the long term. Ditto stem-cell research, etc.
Not all blacks subscribe to the G88's agenda, but this victim ideology is so hardwired into a lot of blacks, that I'm surprised more incidents like this occur.
If I were black, I would certainly not politicize racial differences.
Polanski
Here is the first of over 150 posts on this thread:
james conrad said...
on the previous thread, a commenter asked why the gov would appoint someone who agreed not to run, its a very valid question. why would the gov do that?, i dont buy it at all
10:06 AM
Anyone here care to comment on what Mr. Conrad said?
For what it's worth, I agree with him.
Haywood Patterson
Bears Fan
3:56
Spread the Good News. The Lord God in Heaven knows that Jesus Christ our Lord would have been against this godless vaccine that encourages our young women to be promiscuous. God has put cervical cancer on this earth to punish those godless harlots who have sex before marriage.
The fact that Jesus appears to have been kind of an egalatarian, meritocracy type of a guy, letting the women preach and what not, well, that's pure heresy.
Couldn't resist.
Hey, I asked for any information on why Easley would have chosen Nifong over Freda Black, who seems more qualifed, and got no answers.
K.C. is an excellent example of what a Democrat should be. In a very real sense, he is what the best of the Democrats used to be when they stood up for civil liberties and civil rights.
FWIW, I must take exception to Prof. Anderson on this point. The late Gov. Casey was a fine example of what a Democrat should be. Prof. Johnson, for all his intelligence and integrity and industry, has repeatedly stated his allegiance to distasteful causes embraced by the main body of the Democratic Party over the last 25 years.
KC Johnson is the epitome of a laissez faire Democrat.
Good old KC doesn't think Precious should be charged with a felony.
Isn't that--Democrrrrrrrrrattttt!
Polanski
Both sides of the ideological spectrum seek to IMPOSE their own view of how the world should be on the rest of the country.
Mr. Anonymous, any sort of regulatory legislation, including statutes that proscribe criminal acts and have an ancient pedigree, are impositions on people who wish episodically or generally to behave differently. Tax funds for the purchase of public works are similarly levied in a coercive enterprise. There is an inherent conflict between freedom and community.
Ideology bad. Evidence good.
There is no necessary conflict between weighing evidence with integrity and possessing an ideology. Any conception of justice or of reality involves constructing interlocking systems of ideas.
I guess I have an idea as to why the combined market caps of the top four pharmaceutical companies run about half a trillion dollars.
CDC Vaccine Price List
According to CDC: HPV Vaccine Questions and Answers, the vaccine is far from a silver bullet. And it seems that studies run up to about five years so longer term efficacy and safety data isn't available.
Retail price is $120. $360 for a full course.
Any parent that has had their children immunized have hopefully read the consent and liability forms that have to be signed before vaccination. The first time a parents read those forms should be a shocker.
The problem with ideology is that it makes the weighing of evidence with integrity virtually impossible.
Thus, even though there was 30 years of evidence that the welfare state was creating a holocaust of sorts in the black community by promoting generations of people who didn't go to school or work and was encouraging women to have children early and often, the Democratic Party did not "see" the evidence this way. It was only when a Republican majority took over Congress that welfare reform was reluctantly enacted. Now of course Clinton champions this as one of his greatest accomplishments though he was dragged kicking and screaming to the table. The evidence also shows that NONE of the horrors the liberals expected to come of welfare reform have occured. More people got off welfare and got jobs. So far the effect on unmarried women having babies seems nominal but there is hope.
Similarly, all objective evidence shows that teaching children about sex, contraception and the dangers of the 'hook up' culture so to speak combined with making counseling and contraceptives easily available to them reduce sexual activity and unwanted pregnancies. The evidence does not support faith based 'just say no' abstinance only teachings as being effective. Yet the right does not "see" the evidence this way.
Ideology is why Wendy Murphy and Cash Michaels "see" an injustice occuring here.
There isn't any evidence because it's morality trying to masquerade and policy. ALL actual evidence points to the fact that the more you teach about birth control and the easier it is to get the lower the rate of unintended pregnancy.
There was no such thing as sex education in the D.C. high school my mother attended ca. 1947. At the time, bastards accounted for about 2.5% of all live births in this country. Currently, they account for 37%.
Weren't "hicks" originally seen as more conservative characters? Durham County, NC, seems to be filled with left-wing hicks. I guess you can find hicks anywhere. Even in NYC, the staff of the Times seems like a hick bunch- only hanging within their own clique so they can reaffirm their beliefs back and forth to each other and hate outsiders.
I think the boy has to marry the girl when he got her pregnant back in 1947, which was also before the era of oral contraceptives, so frankly, it isn't very useful as a yardstick about sexual activity today, post birth control pill.
***Thus, even though there was 30 years of evidence that the welfare state was creating a holocaust of sorts in the black community by promoting generations of people who didn't go to school or work and was encouraging women to have children early and often, the Democratic Party did not "see" the evidence this way.***
Hahahaha. Before the "Great Society" we had Jim Crow laws and sharecropping. Thank God we ended the "holocaust" that was the welfare law before the Re-Pube-Licks took care of business.
The problem with ideology is that it makes the weighing of evidence with integrity virtually impossible.
No, it does not. No one of us gets out of bed every morning and re-invents his worldview ex nihilo. You either cogitate upon and understand your biases and your premises, or you do not. Vacuity is not an aid to thought.
Thus, even though there was 30 years of evidence that the welfare state was creating a holocaust of sorts in the black community by promoting generations of people who didn't go to school or work and was encouraging women to have children early and often, the Democratic Party did not "see" the evidence this way. It was only when a Republican majority took over Congress that welfare reform was reluctantly enacted. Now of course Clinton champions this as one of his greatest accomplishments though he was dragged kicking and screaming to the table. The evidence also shows that NONE of the horrors the liberals expected to come of welfare reform have occured. More people got off welfare and got jobs. So far the effect on unmarried women having babies seems nominal but there is hope.
I think understanding social reality is more difficult and complicated than you assume.
Similarly, all objective evidence shows that teaching children about sex, contraception and the dangers of the 'hook up' culture so to speak combined with making counseling and contraceptives easily available to them reduce sexual activity and unwanted pregnancies. The evidence does not support faith based 'just say no' abstinance only teachings as being effective. Yet the right does not "see" the evidence this way.
I suspect you are referring to cross-sectional studies done by entities such as the Alan Guttmacher Institute, which have a certain investment in the outcome. Caveat lector.
I agree 100% with this statement which is why when anyone ever brings God into a debate, they should be tarred and feathered. Your beliefs in unprovable things are not persuasive in arguments.
You mean we all have to impersonate an atheist or be subject to a severe assault from the likes of you? Is that principle in the service of 'ideology' or 'evidence'?
Hey, I heard George Bush's presidency was going really well. Thoughts, quesitons, concerns?
Bill O'Reilly, shortly after Bush's reelection, thought that if Iraq started to go well, his Presidency would be considered one of the best all-time.
I think Bill was right and that Bush will go down as one of the better Presidents of all time.
I think if you don't agree with the war in Iraq, you have forgotten 9/11. I think -- even though I myself am a civilian -- that those who disagree with the war don't have the stomach to fight. And believe me, it takes a real brave man to support the war, civilian or not. By implication, I am a brave man with a strong stomach.
Plus, I have a very good relationship with God and baby Jesus.
Sure it does.
My "ideology" is that a woman and a fertilized egg are not the same and are not deserving of equal protection under the law. I don't "believe" that human life begins at conception or that aborting a first trimester pregnancy is murder. I don't see any evidence that "proves" the fertilized egg is "alive" in the same way a human being is alive or that a fetus is "alive" until 'quickening' as they used to say back in the old days when there weren't any laws about abortion until after quickening.
Therefore, ANY and ALL information about abortion is going to be seen through the prism of this ideology.
TO 3:37PM--
Why yes, there is.
It further illustrates the degree to which Liberals are in acceptance of everything.....every kind of declasse activity....or in the Nifong case, criminal activity.....if......only IF.....
.....that person caters to a particular constituency.
Tell us. What group defended Bill Clinton so unwaveringly?
Tell us.
The very same group who still defends Nifong.
Debarh
There isn't any objective evidence that God exists, let alone the God of Christianity. That is why religion does not belong in the public schools, science or medical worlds. It belongs in the realm of philosophy and, well, religion.
Back to ideology vs. evidence I see.
I think the boy has to marry the girl when he got her pregnant back in 1947, which was also before the era of oral contraceptives, so frankly, it isn't very useful as a yardstick about sexual activity today, post birth control pill.
I think you are suggesting that a third of all brides in 1947 were pregnant on their wedding day, which is an assertion that one might treat rather skeptically.
I cannot help notice that the use of oral contraceptives was perfectly congruent with the burgeoning of child-bearing in less than optimal circumstances, not to mention the slaughter of the unborn in annual lots of 1.3 million or so. Maybe contraceptive technology does not address the problem posed by human sexuality. Jes' thinkin'....
***The very same group who still defends Nifong.***
Wow, the strawman is taking one of the worst beatings I've seen!
Deborah,
I don't see a man lying about a consensual blow job as really being in the same class as falsely prosecuting three clearly innocent young men for felony sexual assault and rape, EVEN if that man is the President and should have known better than to lie about it.
Apparently your superior sense of morality finds both actions equally offensive. Good on ya, I guess.
slaughter of the unborn in annual lots of 1.3 million
--------------------
Sorry, dude, you lost me to my ideology there. I can't get behind the 'slaughter of the unborn' ideology.
My "ideology" is that a woman and a fertilized egg are not the same and are not deserving of equal protection under the law. I don't "believe" that human life begins at conception or that aborting a first trimester pregnancy is murder. I don't see any evidence that "proves" the fertilized egg is "alive" in the same way a human being is alive or that a fetus is "alive" until 'quickening' as they used to say back in the old days when there weren't any laws about abortion until after quickening.
Therefore, ANY and ALL information about abortion is going to be seen through the prism of this ideology.
That is not an 'ideology', but an exercise in gamesmanship. The embryo performs metabolic processes and looks just like you or I did at that stage of our life.
JLS says:
re: 3:26
Notice unlike you I did not prejudge the situation concerning combat charges. We are afterall here because of rush to judgements. I merely pointed out 3 things.
1. US law for the most part applies IN THE US not Asia. [And as an aside, I for one do not like the way the US government has pushed US law overseas.]
2. What the poster called clearly murder was not necessarily so.
3. The international rules of war are designed to protect civiians and that fighting in wars without a uniform is hazzardous to ones life.
I did not prejudge the situation. I never said anyone was guilty or innocent. I will say that this case gives us pause for thought and the military prosecutors could be as bad, we have to give some weight to them believing a crime was committed.
But the statement that any killing of a cuffed person before trial is murder is wrong. Heck it might be self defense, if the cuffed person is armed or wired with bombs.
4:33
What does that prove? The unfertilized egg is "alive" and the sperm is "alive" so every cell in my body as well as the bacteria in my yogurt...being "living tissue" and being "alive" in terms of a living human are not the same. The fertilized egg is not an unborn baby, it's a fertilized egg.
But the statement that any killing of a cuffed person before trial is murder is wrong. Heck it might be self defense, if the cuffed person is armed or wired with bombs.
----------------------------
Ridiculous. In the real world, the actual factual case we are talking about did not include anyone armed or wired with bombs. It is against our laws and internatinoal laws as well as common sense and morality to execute unarmed civilians whose hands are bound, EVEN if you believe they are enemy combatants.
Trying to justify this is wrong and doesn't help anyone's cause.
Check out the following post on Howard Bashman's website - a dissent from a Fifth Circuit en banc opinion named Mike Nifong as an example of prosecutorial misconduct. Is this the first instance of this?
http://howappealing.law.com/020207.html#021975
This is a case of a prosecution run amok. Mike Nifong, another prosecutor apparently familiar with the "win at any cost" mantra, most surely would approve. The government set out to "get" Humberto Cuellar for something, and why not? He is apparently a "bad dude," an accessory to what likely was a serious drug-running operation; moreover, this is, after all, the "war on drugs." But instead of charging under a statute of which Cuellar (by his attorney's admission) is guilty, the government used the wrong law, and the majority now has blessed the government's missteps with a holding that makes "money laundering" out of virtually any transfer of illicit proceeds across an international border.
Oh, yes. Nifong gets his name in lights.
re: Debrah @ 3:36
Also, just to prove that it wasn't a fluke, Skunky's encore was treating the world to Roger.
TO 4:32PM--
I don't care about morals.
Just ethics.
Doing the right thing and not harming others who have done nothing to me.
Using power to harm others is what I object to.
I don't care about religion or those who use it as a crutch.
Debrah
KC Johnson would have the world believe that this is basically a case of a rogue prosecutor, with Mike Nifong as either the protagonist or the antagonist.
Wrong, Professor. What this case is really about is the surreal racial climate in the US in general, and Durham, in particular. All the "drama" that flowed from this travesty was animated by the backdraft of race.
Consider:
1. if it had been a white skank, would anyone have paid attention? Nifong in a black Durham?
2. if the accuser had been a lying white skank, do you think that Brodhead would have displayed a little more empathy toward the boys?
3. would there be a G88 for the white skank?
4. ditto change of venue?
5. NAACP, et al? Murphy? Estrich?
This silly saga was entirely couched in political correctness--otherwise known as being labeled a racist by blacks.
Polanski
2.
I had heard a long time ago that "Jakki" was a man or at least that he wasn't 'born' a woman, but I've never seen it confirmed. It wouldnt' surprise me, given the complainants history if another one of her relatives had been involved in crime as well.
I'm not sure it's too relevant, other than another person who tried to get some fame or fortune off of the case. It seemed pretty clear that "Jakki" didn't know anything about the accuser or where she was or what she said, since she not only brought up the now discredited $2M bribe, but she confirmed the birth of the baby several weeks before in fact, it occured.
"cedarford"---
KC is not a garden-variety Democrat. And you know it.
Stop trying to direct traffic. It's unbecoming.
Almost as if you are using this blog as your living room.
:>)
Debrah
Cedarford at 5:13
What you said.
And, good heavens! Greta didn't reveal problems with credibility? What is the world coming to?
/sarcasm.
Off topic subjects are getting too numerous to count: NYTimes bashing, Democrat bashing, Bush bashing, abortion, cervical cancer, black bashing, the Iraq war, liberal bashing, North Carolina bashing and now transvestite bashing.
TO 4:56PM--
LOL!!!
I had almost forgotten about Roger Clinton. The Gomer Pyle of the Clinton era.
Although Hillary's two brothers got into some criminal trouble as well.....especially the obese brother who lives in Florida.
Wow, that bunch of hicks reallyy milked the White House.....and so many have forgotten just how low class they were.
Like roaches.
Debrah
Yeah, the drunk driving former coke head now occupying the White House is a real breath of fresh air.
Off topic subjects are getting too numerous to count: NYTimes bashing, Democrat bashing, Bush bashing, abortion, cervical cancer, black bashing, the Iraq war, liberal bashing, North Carolina bashing and now transvestite bashing.
Yeah, let's get back to bashing Nifong!
Cedarford,
I think Wahneema and Precious are also men. I also second C's observation that discussion of BJs is a bit off topic.
P
5:22 wrote:
Off topic subjects are getting too numerous to count: NYTimes bashing, Democrat bashing, Bush bashing, abortion, cervical cancer, black bashing, the Iraq war, liberal bashing, North Carolina bashing and now transvestite bashing.
5:22 PM
The NY Times, a democratic and liberal stronghold that excoritates Bush - and his wife who had cancer - and his policies regarding Iraq, has squarely stood behind Nifong and his transvestite supporters.
How's that for tying it all together?
I've noticed that the comments on this blog tail off during cocktail hour - around 5 pm.....
To Messrs and Mss Finnerty, Seligmann, and Evans,
KC Johnson would have you believe that your sons were principally persecuted by Mike Nifong, the quotidian opportunist.
I don't see it that way. I blame society, which includes me and you. Crystal Gail Mangum is, in her heart of hearts, a garden-variety sociopath. In a word, she's scum. Sociopaths aren't crazy, however. They fear going to jail, like most citizens.
Your sons were persecuted by a rogue prosecutor because of Crystal Mangum's realization that she had nothing to fear from the law--and society--for viciously accusing your sons of a despicable crime. Her behavior should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Yet Johnson is silent on this issue. Which begs the question: What is he afraid of?
KC Johnson doesn't give a shit about advocating for a change in the law. There would be no Nifong without Precious. It's as simple as that.
It's status quo all the time for the Johnson.
KC, don't you think it's time you answered my queries? I'm sure the Seligmanns, Evanses, and the Finnertys would like your explanation.
Are you afraid to take me to the hoop for fear I'd dunk on you?
Polanski
Fifty years ago when I was in High School, no one knew anything about birth control and no one got pregnant. Today, they know everything about birth control and many are getting pregnant. It's a moral issue - not an information issue. I don't understand how these girls let these guys get them pregnant to bring up these kids alone with no support, Stupid
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