Issue: what did the attackers look like?
Himan took notes during March 16 interview; then mentions Gottlieb's contrasting descriptions.
"Of course, Sgt. Gottlieb didn't take any notes of the meeting"--report prepared after indictments.
First thought of defense attorneys: did Mangum remember things later? No: Himan made clear that on March 21, she didn't remember anything more.
"We don't know where Sgt. Gottlieb got his descriptions from."
ID process supposed to be governed by G.O. 4077--indpt. administrator, fillers must resemble description, don't reuse fillers, five fillers, administrator should give identical instructions, don't give feedback, and tell witness that suspects not necessarily present in ID array.
March 16: Mangum saying that she was 70% certain of seeing Seligmann at party, but couldn't remember where. That should have ruled him out as suspect.
March 21: doesn't recognize Dave Evans.
Never shown picture of Collin Finnerty: why? Didn't resemble any of the descriptions.
March 31: Gottlieb and Himan meet with Nifong; mugshot photos with suspects-only ID.
Investigation at a dead end by March 31--Mangum couldn't ID anyone, couldn't give any descriptions of suspects, couldn't remember anything further, no semen anywhere in rape kit, other dancer had told police that the accusations were a "crock."
Big question: was this an ID process? Patrick Baker says this wasn't an ID process--just goal was to identify witnesses rather than alleged attackers. No ID process; therefore, G.O. 4077 doesn't apply.
But this doesn't make any sense: Devon Sherwood was at the party. They knew he was at the party. Yet police never showed Mangum Devon Sherwood's picture.
Police also knew there were non-lacrosse players at the party (Boehmler and Saeli); police knew this as of March 28, 2006. Why weren't there pictures included if sole goal was to ascertain witnesses?
If goal was to simply ID witnesses, why would the police have videotaped the 4-4 lineup? And why did the police then not videotape the 3-16 and 3-21 lineups? "What sense does that make"?
If purpose was simply to identify witnesses, why did the police need to show Mangum the picture of Seligmann, since she had already claimed that she was 70% sure of seeing him at the party?
Then fundamental flaw: never show witness the same photos she has already seen. "That's what leads to misidentifications and false identifications."
Finnerty: very tall, obviously. Mangum had never said that person who assaulted her was unusually tall.
"Critical" to look at else who she identified: fourth person, used almost same language as was done with Dave Evans--but no follow-up on the fourth person ID'd.
Brad Ross: Mangum identifies him with 100% certainty twice, the only person done so. But he was in Raleigh--this evidence was presented to DPD.
Chris Loftus: she says she 100% sure she saw him--but he was in his dorm room.
"A procedure that DPD admits didn't comply with GO 4077." Yet this became the sole basis on which Seligmann and Finnerty were indicted. One month later, Seligmann and Finnerty were on cover of Newsweek--as a result of this procedure. Seligmann gets death threats.
All of this evidence DPD either had or could have received before first indictment issued.
Defense doesn't have all of the answers in this--don't know about internal conversations, doubt the defense has received all the correspondence.
After March 24, investigation based toward proving the truth of Mangum's story rather than determining what actually happened.
"In this rush to indict, to cut off an investigation"--don't know what role chain of command had, and how chain of command interacted with Nifong.
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13 comments:
KC....what is the make-up of the Committee? Are there any potential hidden agendas? If the Committee tries to white-wash, what will be the "weasel words" "loop holes" etc?
Thanks!
Tom Inman
When one is seeking an indictment uber alles, then one can dispatch with the niceties like the truth. That is what we saw here, and THAT is what the enablers still support.
Don't any of us kid ourselves; there are plenty of people there, including at Duke, who want to believe the story, so they believe it. Enough said.
What a filthy, lying pig this Crystal Mangum is. I like the part where Cooney exlains the timeline that she gave to police: I woke up, did my nails for FIVE HOURS, called my mom....
Meanwhile, her phone records show her making about 25 calls to escort agencies (pimps), and getting driven around to "appointments" at hotels. Somehow, she forgot to tell the police about this, or just confused these activities with "doing her nails".
Yeesh!
Oh yeah, then she adds the call that resulted in her lacrosse party. Small problem: She has the party on Sunday instead of Monday. her account loses a whole DAY, during which she was busy having sex in hotels.
And of course, the police knew about these discrepancies, but never followed up, never talked to the escort agencies, etc.
Gottlieb to Mangum:
What did the attackers look like?
Mangum: Dah honkies look like dah honkies dooz. Honkie Mark, you gotz a tissuez for my wet, stinkin pussah jooz?
Gottlieb: Anything else?
Mangum: Mah big fat pussah lipz couln't feel dah honkies' little penises, so I knows it waz dah honkies.
Gottlieb: I'm convinced.
Respectfully submitted,
Mark Gottlieb
anonymous @ 12:54 --
With Crystal, "nails" = "trick" = "john"
Then her statement is clearly accurate.
K.C. --
Please remove the 12:56 comment. It contains nothing but racist vulgarity and contributes nothing.
Also I suspect it wasn't posted by Officer Gottlieb at all but is actually the work of an impostor. Could be wrong about that though.
"All of this evidence DPD either had or could have received before first indictment issued."
Ouch.
"Defense doesn't have all of the answers in this--don't know about internal conversations, doubt the defense has received all the correspondence."
They can't tell the committee what to look into, but now that they've put this in the record if the committee doesn't look into it, they're obviously a whitewash.
"don't know what role chain of command had, and how chain of command interacted with Nifong."
Ouch. Once again, if the committee doesn't answer that question, they're obviously a whitewash.
Looks like the defense team is doing its best to box them into a choice between action and public humiliation as corrupt incompetents.
Of course, since this is Durham and even the "outsiders" are from neighboring parts of NC, there's a good chance they'll choose door #2.
Still, at least it will be harder to get people to take the committee's results seriously.
Chain of command----------let's see, that would be election central's call, right?
1:28
I disagree. It might be "racist," but as a satire of the ridiculous police investigation, and of Mangum's gutter vulgarity, it was brilliant.
Stop being so PC.
If Monty Hall is not available, maybe the committee report could resemble Deal or No Deal.
Ralph,
Can't you see the paint brushes coming over to the fence? After all, Cooper appointed Jim Hardin to clean up the DA's office. The fox is checking up on the hen house. He started that mess and now they want him to check it out. Get real.
As for the rest, an honest committee report will delve into the DPD carefully.
The crowd in Durham makes Ray Naegin look like one who has real concern for his constituants at heart. He, like Nifong, was more concerned with the election returns. A lot of similarities there.
Who exactly has legal standing to bring charges against Gotlieb et al?
Above animal revenge instincts, punishment is used to correct behavior and scary legal action is that only way that department is going to correct.
2:31 --
There was nothing "brilliant" about it in the least, and one does not have to be "PC" to be repulsed by such idiotic racist tripe anymore than one has to be "PC" to be offended by the Stormfront website. See, "brilliant" would be to use Mangum's hallucinated narrative of the night in question as an object over which Gottlieb and Mangum would negotiate: Gottlieb would be quite obviously feeding Mangum the descriptions he wants her to parrot back, but he would suffer setbacks to that plan due to Mangum being unable to remember even the most basic details of the story she's supposed to tell, and simply wanting to talk about what excruciating pain she's in and how only pain medications (of which she name-drops an amazing variety of brand names) could ease the extreme distress left from when Brett put his private part in her butt unless that was Adam.
Now that could be brilliant. "Mah big fat pussah lipz couln't feel dah honkies' little penises"? Racist. Vulgar. And trash.
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