tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post1257556160936679619..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: The Himan Smoking Gunkcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-42332271153398002792007-06-19T10:31:00.000-04:002007-06-19T10:31:00.000-04:00"No justice, no peace" --Will you stop shilling fo..."No justice, no peace" --<BR/><BR/>Will you <B>stop</B> shilling for that goddamn book already. I now know that I will <I>never</I> open its covers, since it would not be necessary to keep quoting the same dead lump of assertions-with-no-support-visible if the book had actual <I>content</I> that could be quoted when it had <I>relevance</I>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-43408608456260252802007-06-18T21:41:00.000-04:002007-06-18T21:41:00.000-04:00Thank you for posting this KC. I had been looking...Thank you for posting this KC. I had been looking for it and couldn't find it anywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-43101406928295624242007-06-17T22:52:00.000-04:002007-06-17T22:52:00.000-04:00JLS says...,Nifong also certainly would have suffe...JLS says...,<BR/><BR/>Nifong also certainly would have suffered no more than a slap on the wrist had he dropped the charges last summer when the Duke students were out of school. <BR/><BR/>I kept pointing out on various boards that various points last summer were the perfect time to drop the charges. Most Duke students would be away from Durham and thus there would be fewer retribution targets for New Black Panther Party types. <BR/><BR/>But the infamous Nifong stuborness came out and he was just going to win. And if Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann are ruined by him winning, it was their fault for getting in the way of what the Nifong the god of Durham wanted and needed.<BR/><BR/>SteveDinMD: Nifong COULDN'T drop the case last Summer, even if he wanted to -- at least he couldn't drop it and be assured of keeping his phoney-baloney job. Though he won the Democrat primary, the general election was months away, in November. Under ordinary circumstances he might have let the case quietly slip away, but he wasn't facing ordinary circumstances. <BR/><BR/>Nifong's mishandlinhg of the case generated strong political opposition almost from the beginning, and he could anticipate a serious challenge in the general election despite Durham being a one-party town. He HAD to keep the case going at least through November. Unfortunately for him, the inherent weakness of the case meant that it couldn't sustain itself that long without some help. As it turned out, in the interest of carrying an obviously false prosecution past the November election, Nifong engaged in willful deceit and witheld evidence. Though he might have survived all that came before, it was ultimately with this last act that he destroyed himself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-71612272575265901632007-06-17T19:38:00.000-04:002007-06-17T19:38:00.000-04:00How easily will the parents be able to sue what is...How easily will the parents be able to sue what is left of Nifong's carcass? How much legal protection from civil lawsuits can he expect as a D.A? I hope very little after yesterday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-44519290040696540052007-06-17T19:37:00.000-04:002007-06-17T19:37:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-83170926607347048722007-06-17T19:22:00.000-04:002007-06-17T19:22:00.000-04:00The following remind you of any in Durham? Duke Un...The following remind you of any in Durham? Duke University? The MSM?<BR/><BR/>“For Intellectuals, far from being highly individualistic and non-conformist people, follow certain regular patterns of behavior. Taken as a group, they are often ultra-conformist within the circles formed by those whose approval they seek and value. That is what makes them, en masses, so dangerous, for it enables them to create climates of opinion and prevailing orthodoxies, which themselves often generate irrational and destructive course of action. Above all, we must at all times remember what intellectuals habitually forget; that people matter more than concepts and must come first. The worst of all despotisms is the heartless tyranny of ideas.” – Intellectuals, Paul Johnson<BR/><BR/>Intellectuals is a great book, check it out. It will cost you much, much less than the $60k/year Duke tuition will set you back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-59444497132994693472007-06-17T19:08:00.000-04:002007-06-17T19:08:00.000-04:00OR..... Nifong:1) Despite his word to the Governor...OR..... <BR/><BR/>Nifong:<BR/><BR/>1) Despite his word to the Governor, he runs for DA solely out of greed to retire with a higher pension. <BR/><BR/>2) He trails his old rival Freda Black by 17 points and knows that if she wins he not only loses his higher pension, but he is out of job altogether. <BR/><BR/>3) Mangum comes along with a black lynch mob powder keg behind it. <BR/><BR/>4) Nifong throws in the match and begins a carefully orchastrated and sinister series of cold-blooded actions: refusing the interview Mangum, ordering a rigged line-up, indicting without reading the transcripts, refusing to hear alibis or other evidence, purposely withholding other evidence - all designed to send 3 innocent men to a long prison sentence if it means furthing his career and retirement objectives. <BR/><BR/>5) Months drag by and, even in December, he still refuses to drop all the charges. <BR/><BR/>6) Consumed with power and arrogance, he is genuinely shocked and surprised when he is charged with ethics violations and VERY relunctantly turns the case over to the State AG. <BR/><BR/>7) He vows to fight, saying he's down nothing wrong. Hires a lawyer. He absolutely refuses to resign. <BR/><BR/>8) The State Bar Trial finally starts and he is as arrogant and cold-hearted as ever, "something happened", "oh maybe I got a bit out of hand". <BR/><BR/>9) Finally, as the case reaches his conclusion <B> for the first time</B> he wakes up, he snaps out of his trance and realizes the depths, the magnitude and the pure evil nature of his actions.<BR/><BR/>10) He then, <B> for the first time </B> does the right thing: acknowledges he should be disbared, offers not to appeal, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-79445806906144738582007-06-17T19:01:00.000-04:002007-06-17T19:01:00.000-04:00JLS says...,re: 6:27Let me try to follow your ana...JLS says...,<BR/><BR/>re: <B> 6:27</B><BR/><BR/>Let me try to follow your analysis of the time line:<BR/><BR/>1. No honest incompetence at all. It started out with a PC complaint that ALL modern police departments are required to treat seriously. [I think they should treat all complaints seriously but skeptically.] So the police investigated. [I am not sure if we yet know WHY the police investigated much at all after the first night since she was not believed.<BR/><BR/>2. That Himan testimony is about THE INTIAL DPD BRIEFING OF NIFONG ON THE CASE. Nifong saw the case from the start as a way to win the primary. So he did what he had to do to win the primary. That is not digging a hole and while Nifong is a programmed PC leftist, he was doing this to win his primary.<BR/><BR/>3. On point 3 I think you are correct, his pride would not allow him to drop the charges last summer when he could have gotten out clean.<BR/><BR/>4. But sorry he is every bit this evil. He views himself as superior to those outside the Durham legal system. They must kneel to him. He viewed himself as untouchable. Might he have dropped the charges had Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann and their representatives showed him the in his view correct respect? We will never know. Had they hired Woody Vann rather than Chesshire etal, would he have dropped the charges? We will never know. But certainly there is a chance had the kneeled at the foot of the sovereign and kissed his ring, he would have dropped the charges.<BR/><BR/>I think you might be right that Nifong figured a judge would get him out of this mess by supressing the IDs. If he wanted Mangum to recant or back out, he would have pressed her on her inconsistencies. <BR/><BR/>5. I believe you may be right particularly when he got the initial bar letter, he might have felt he need a suppression of evidence to end the chance for a trial or to get this to a jury to avoid sanction.<BR/><BR/>6. The save face plan might have worked but the bar viewed his behavior even before the 15 December hearing as bad as it was, a cynical use innocent people to win a primary. So he was not going to escape.<BR/><BR/>7. But I disagree with your conclusion. Nifong was forced out of the case. He was going to try to fight to get this to a jury. He never WANTED to do any right thing. He did not even care what was the right thing. He cared about what was the Nifong thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-39737456222421922102007-06-17T18:50:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:50:00.000-04:00It's ok for Jamil Hussein to drag his anti-liberal...It's ok for Jamil Hussein to drag his anti-liberal crap in this forum, but not ok for someone to drag religion into this. It's an open forum, dude. Except for the blog administrator, no one can dictate the kind of comments people can leave here. People might not think you're such a troll if you brought sensible arguments here with putting liberal in every other sentence. After all, justice knows no ideology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-57210163314907561522007-06-17T18:32:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:32:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-35764133781849782292007-06-17T18:31:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:31:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-15727393673491828752007-06-17T18:29:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:29:00.000-04:006:27 - not bad, but you have to include the electi...6:27 - not bad, but you have to include the election campaign in your timeline. That and his overwhelming desire to increase his pension. Crystal was a gift that just keeps on giving.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-35291192235922810182007-06-17T18:27:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:27:00.000-04:00Nifong:1. Started off as honest incompetence in ha...Nifong:<BR/><BR/>1. Started off as honest incompetence in handling a case with this much national attention. He thought he was doing the right thing.<BR/><BR/>2. As time went on, he dug himself a huge, huge hole. Public comments, hiding the DNA, faulty line-up, etc. <BR/><BR/>3. Decision time: "Do I swallow my pride, drop the charges and admit I was wrong all along or do I purposely try to frame innocent people?" <BR/><BR/>4. Too much pride. He can't be this evil as to actually want to send these 3 boys to prison. <BR/><BR/>He probably figures that his Precious will change her mind, a judge will throw out the line-up or that, worst case, a jury will find them "not guilty". <BR/><BR/>5. His plan is to eventually get past this case so he can save face and say "I believed in my client, unfortunately the judge (or jury) saw it differently". <BR/><BR/>6. The "save face" plan wasn't working. <BR/><BR/>7. Conclusion:<BR/><BR/>At the very, very end, he still had a chance to drop the charges and maybe slither away, but at that point I think he knew he had been caught and was ready to *finally* start to do the right thing: End the bullshit and turn the case over to the DA, let the State Bar have their day in court, then volunteer to resign, turn in his license, vow not to appeal and apologize.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-27898170231832604932007-06-17T18:20:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:20:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-15545097873646786772007-06-17T18:18:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:18:00.000-04:00Michael,I feel that people are overlooking how clo...Michael,<BR/><BR/>I feel that people are overlooking how close Nifong came and how only a few strokes of luck on his end could have ended with a guilty verdict.<BR/><BR/>What if she hadn't had the DNA from 4-10 men on her? It wouldnt' change the fact the boys didn't rape her, but there would have been no exculpatory material for him to hide.<BR/><BR/>What if she had chosen 3 guys who were at the house the entire time instead of 2 out of 3 who had strong alibis? It wouldnt' ahve changed the fact that nobody raped her but could have easily led to a conviction.<BR/><BR/>What if Nifong had just turned over the DNA and said it was inadmissable under rape shield law? <BR/><BR/>He IS an idiot, but even a dolt like Mike Nifong only needed a couple of things to break in his favor to get a convictionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-76450361211484080122007-06-17T18:11:00.001-04:002007-06-17T18:11:00.001-04:00Wow -- just unbelievable.If I hear anyone express ...Wow -- just unbelievable.<BR/><BR/>If I hear anyone express sympathy for Nifong,<BR/>I don't know if I am going to blow my top or<BR/>puke. What Nifong did for publicity almost got<BR/>people killed and almost got three fine young<BR/>men thrown in jail for 30 years.<BR/><BR/>And for Nifong to say during his trial that he <BR/>was always trying to do the right thing - oops, <BR/>I just puked ...MikeZPurduehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16607714354649967842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-17751811648987788392007-06-17T18:11:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:11:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-21468885779676627642007-06-17T18:09:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:09:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-57957310562657182712007-06-17T18:07:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:07:00.000-04:00The price good men pay for indifference to public ...The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.<BR/>-- PlatoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-45030117563618555842007-06-17T18:06:00.001-04:002007-06-17T18:06:00.001-04:00Reply:Jun 17, 2007 4:45:00 PM3. What is his religi...Reply:Jun 17, 2007 4:45:00 PM<BR/><BR/>3. What is his religious affiliation, if any? Some fundamentalist Christians are prone to self-destructive behavior.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>That is such an asinine statement to even think, let alone speak. You owe a great many Christians an apology who you have manage to slander today!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-87761030935771147452007-06-17T18:06:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:06:00.000-04:00JLS says...,Nifong also certainly would have suffe...JLS says...,<BR/><BR/>Nifong also certainly would have suffered no more than a slap on the wrist had he dropped the charges last summer when the Duke students were out of school. <BR/><BR/>I kept pointing out on various boards that various points last summer were the perfect time to drop the charges. Most Duke students would be away from Durham and thus there would be fewer retribution targets for New Black Panther Party types. <BR/><BR/>But the infamous Nifong stuborness came out and he was just going to win. And if Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann are ruined by him winning, it was their fault for getting in the way of what the Nifong the god of Durham wanted and needed.<BR/><BR/>I think Nifong would have been penalized a good bit more had he dropped the charges after the 15 December hearing. I think the bar was on to the fact that this was a cyncal political hijacking of a case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-50110990787949072732007-06-17T18:00:00.000-04:002007-06-17T18:00:00.000-04:005:08 PMHow did we get to this point? Nifong got c...5:08 PM<BR/>How did we get to this point? Nifong got caught.<BR/><BR/>Why did he almost not get caught? Because, for over 9 unbelievable months, nobody is obligated to speak out against a railroading effort.<BR/><BR/><I>"Sharon Alexander (panelist): You can commit fraud by being silent."</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-29318986786023572302007-06-17T17:53:00.000-04:002007-06-17T17:53:00.000-04:00If Nifong had dropped all charges in Dec he would...If Nifong had dropped all charges in Dec he would have gotten away with it.<BR/><BR/>After have been told the value of the DNA evidence and re-interviewing the victim, I feel I have no choice but to dropped the charges, I believe something happened, but the state can not prove it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-76213942632263901172007-06-17T17:45:00.000-04:002007-06-17T17:45:00.000-04:00Oh no.Now all you Talk Radio Limbaugh/Hannity shee...Oh no.<BR/><BR/>Now all you Talk Radio Limbaugh/Hannity sheep are going to write the FCC again "to protect the children".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-14143776926035582982007-06-17T17:37:00.001-04:002007-06-17T17:37:00.001-04:00JLS says....,What happened to Nifong is that he wa...JLS says....,<BR/><BR/>What happened to Nifong is that he was in his view, in his little world appointed god. From the point of view of a drone ADA like Nifong the DA answers to nobody.<BR/><BR/>Thus the "we" in the "you know "we" are f'ed" was the Royal "we" That is Nifong was saying you "know I am f'ed." Certainly Himan, Gottlieb nor anyone else was invested in this case like Nifong.<BR/><BR/>Now I am going to say something very very controversial next. It fits in my political bias, but I think it also has some merit. <BR/><BR/>I think when presented with this problem, Nifong reacted like Bill Cliton when his lie in testimony to a federal court got out. Each decided that then they had to win this. I think Bill Clinton due his apparent charisma could do that and get away with it. Nifong does not have that charisma. <BR/><BR/>And of course winning in the Clinton case meant fighting off removal from office, but not further harm unless one counts to lying in federal court testimony without sanction damaging the justice system. [Each can make their own comment of whether Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann would not have been even indicted had Nifong not had the Clinton example.] What was done to the women who were suing Clinton was done and they were only seeking to be made whole. Winning in the Nifong case required harming three people and ruining their lives which of course made it more difficult for Nifong to win since the defendants would naturally fight back hard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com