tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post2699360123058356507..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: Sunday Noteskcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-46507062101760953682006-10-25T11:25:00.000-04:002006-10-25T11:25:00.000-04:00"You can easily interpret his statement to mean th..."You can easily interpret his statement to mean that he believed the players were innocent"<br /><br />"Interpret" - There lies the problem for me. A supportive leader would offer a clear statement that did not require interpretation.<br /><br />By your position, Brodehead's statement could also be "interpreted" that there was no player cooperation.<br /><br />To your comments that the players were not cooperating as fully -- you use the word "think" a lot, so not sure what your facts are on this.<br /><br />Regardless, offering statements w/o an attorney, DNA for crying out loud - access to property beyond the warrant -- give me a break - these are facts of cooperation well beyond the ordinary, and Brodehead knew at the time !<br /><br />"I think the LAX team supporters have gone way overboard "<br /><br />Would be supporting any Duke community member (you too)if similarly let down by the administrationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-89697319110973210282006-10-25T01:44:00.000-04:002006-10-25T01:44:00.000-04:00I think you may be overstating the extent of the c...I think you may be overstating the extent of the cooperation provided by the players. It is true that the captains cooperated fully and that the players gave DNA samples, but I do not think the players were cooperating in giving statements to the police or answering their questions about what happened that night. I think the LAX team supporters have gone way overboard trying to beat up Brodhead for his statement urging everyone to cooperate with the police. You can easily interpret his statement to mean that he believed the players were innocent, so there was no reason for them to be concerned about the police, so they should just tell the police everything they know, and we will get this thing over with. Is there some reason why you find that to be an impossible explanation of his words?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-38681580622142383722006-10-24T20:59:00.000-04:002006-10-24T20:59:00.000-04:00"My opinion, however, of his handling on the situa..."My opinion, however, of his handling on the situation pivots completely on his early SILENCE, a silence that misled us regarding the full and immediate cooperation the captains and players gave to law enforcement. "<br /><br />-He wasn't just silent. He said outright "I hope everyone cooperates with the authorities" (words to that effect).<br /><br />He clearly implied that there was no cooperation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-51197240981995124822006-10-23T18:38:00.000-04:002006-10-23T18:38:00.000-04:00To 2:48
OK – Well its fair to accept you disagree...To 2:48<br /><br />OK – Well its fair to accept you disagree w KC re: his take on Brodehead. <br /><br />I’ll give you, it’s not easy to come to a full and clear understanding of Brodehead because a) his demeanor is very low profile, and b) we really don’t know what he does about the matter outside of public view.<br /><br />For instance, I am grateful that he re-instated the Lax program – and I take this action as an important endorsement of the players, and I think others should give him more credit for this.<br /><br />My opinion, however, of his handling on the situation pivots completely on his early SILENCE, a silence that misled us regarding the full and immediate cooperation the captains and players gave to law enforcement. This is where he was weak and kept silent to assuage – IMO - the left fringe faculty and other interested communities. <br /><br /> He threw the players “under the bus” for them. <br /><br />Before we knew of the DA/Police dishonesty on all this, no one would/should have expected Brodehead's “enthusiastic support” of the players given the severity of the accusations. But his silence, in retrospect, was damning of these young men. The acknowledgement of what he knew to be true – that the players cooperated fully with the police “as if they were innocent” -was information we were entitled to know, and as a leader he was expected to give. He failed miserably. <br /><br />We can speculate all the reasons why he kept silent – the advice of an Allen Building attorney, “white guilt”, a low regard for athletes, or that he’s more interested in recruiting/retaining faculty than in the students – but it doesn’t matter – he failed the players, their families, interested alum, and anyone with a sense of fairness. <br /><br />The recent news, that the Administration instructed the players to not tell their parents of the incident, and the shutting down of the DSED voter registration table, were the final straws for me. No doubt those actions were out of Brodehead’s control ---- but, it is his ship that is sinking.<br /><br />Still looking for his apology, regardless of his "ratio"<br />T’78Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-37002791481002020152006-10-23T14:48:00.000-04:002006-10-23T14:48:00.000-04:002:32 PM, if you go back and read KC's many posts e...2:32 PM, if you go back and read KC's many posts excoriating Brodhead for devoting less than 5 percent of his total words on the LAX mess to supporting the players, I am sure you will be able to figure it out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-19108653503977090762006-10-23T14:32:00.000-04:002006-10-23T14:32:00.000-04:00To: 3:50
Re sincerity of apology
"But instead o...To: 3:50 <br /><br />Re sincerity of apology<br /><br />"But instead of just taking your word for it"<br /><br />Offered my personal opinion. Expect no one to take my word on it. When you find the "arbiter of sincereity", come back and fill us in.<br /><br />" the guidelines developed by Professor Johnson in his prior posts...the ratio of the total number of words of apology to the total number of words spoken"<br /><br />Unfamiliar w what underlies your tortured attempt to be clever. Pls elaborate, or link to relevant info.<br /><br />T'78Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86714287204572883962006-10-23T14:27:00.000-04:002006-10-23T14:27:00.000-04:007:30 PM, one of the main problems that I have with...7:30 PM, one of the main problems that I have with many of the stories that appear on this website is that they obviously come from the LAX team parents, who are not exactly an unbiased source of information. For example, you suddenly appear out of nowhere, announce that you are an LAX team parent, and start putting words into the mouths of Tallman Trask and Sue Wasiolek which have the effect of making the Duke Administration look bad. However, KC has not bothered to contact Trask or Wasiolek to get their side of the story. This means that we are basically being asked to take your word as the gospel truth without any cross checking to see if the other parties to the conversation remember it the same way you do. As you can imagine, these kinds of situations are ripe for abuse, which should help to explain why I am not leaping forward to accept your version of events. I hope I have expressed myself clearly and that I have not been too obtuse for you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-59042115145287653722006-10-23T01:41:00.000-04:002006-10-23T01:41:00.000-04:003:50 PM, you say that the LAX captains apologized ...3:50 PM, you say that the LAX captains apologized publicly for the team's bad behavior and that their apology was sincere. But instead of just taking your word for it, maybe we should test the sincerity of their apology using the guidelines developed by Professor Johnson in his prior posts. In that case, we would have to ask what is the ratio of the total number of words of apology to the total number of words spoken by the LAX captains in the last six months? If that number comes out to less than 5 percent, we would be forced to conclude that the apology is insincere and is instead merely formulaic. In other words, an apology for which they should receive no credit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-36556642740532847592006-10-23T01:21:00.000-04:002006-10-23T01:21:00.000-04:00Dude, how can you pontificate about people who do ...Dude, how can you pontificate about people who do not have the guts to post their names when you yourself are posting anonymously? Or is Dude your legal name?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-84851496448870331862006-10-23T00:06:00.000-04:002006-10-23T00:06:00.000-04:00I was talking to the mother of a high school senio...I was talking to the mother of a high school senior the other day who likes Vanderbilt. All I could think of was Houston Baker (puke!). I am so glad he is no longer at Duke but I don't wish him on other people's kids either!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-55695733570016443532006-10-22T22:32:00.000-04:002006-10-22T22:32:00.000-04:0010:10
Fortunately, both Houston Baker and his w...10:10<br /> Fortunately, both Houston Baker and his wife took positons at Vanderbilt this fall. However, it makes me feel sorry for the Vanderbilt parents/students who inherited them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-56105230493216618262006-10-22T22:10:00.000-04:002006-10-22T22:10:00.000-04:00I just read Houston A. Baker's letter for the firs...I just read Houston A. Baker's letter for the first time tonight. It is appaling to me that he still works at Duke. I am not happy to be spending 45,ooo yearly to be educated by Houston Baker and co. A Duke parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-88193844987989091052006-10-22T21:42:00.000-04:002006-10-22T21:42:00.000-04:00Prof. Johnson,
I'm not as quick as you to forgive...Prof. Johnson,<br /><br />I'm not as quick as you to forgive Ruth Sheehan for that reprehensible column, "<a href="http://www.newsobserver.com/138/story/422462.html">Team's Silence is Sickening</a>," on March 27, the one in which she said, "Members of the Duke men's lacrosse team: You know. We know you know." I see her increasing "passion" to be an effort to erase that first embarrassing column on this subject. When I see a column titled, "Boy, Did I Screw Up!", maybe I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-51607860629583696022006-10-22T21:27:00.000-04:002006-10-22T21:27:00.000-04:00"From my perspective, this has never been about an..."From my perspective, this has never been about any kind of desire to wish bad things for the lacrosse players or any other Duke athletes," Starn said.<br /><br /><br />Isn't Starns the one that wants to do away with all Division I athletics at Duke? I wonder what his threshold is for "bad".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-53948249996922973042006-10-22T20:43:00.000-04:002006-10-22T20:43:00.000-04:00From the Baltimore Sun
If cleared, two can rejoin...From the Baltimore Sun<br /><br />If cleared, two can rejoin Duke<br />Coach open to return, though focus on case troubles one professor<br /><br />By Jeff Barker<br />Sun Reporter<br /><br />October 21, 2006<br /><br />DURHAM, N.C. -- Duke University lacrosse players Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann will be permitted to rejoin the team if cleared in the alleged rape of a woman at an off-campus team party last spring, coach John Danowski said.<br /><br />"If their eligibility is intact, we certainly would welcome them back," he said in an interview.<br /><br />Finnerty and Seligmann, who would have been Duke juniors this year, have been taking classes near their homes in New York and New Jersey, respectively, as they await trial. They were charged in April with first-degree forcible rape after a 27-year-old North Carolina Central University student hired as a stripper alleged that she was sexually assaulted by three men at a house rented by team members.<br /><br />The third player charged, David Evans, graduated in May.<br /><br />The players' reinstatement could raise delicate issues for Duke. Elizabeth Chin, a visiting professor in the cultural-anthropology department last spring, said the university needs to put the case behind it so it can focus on the broader issues it provoked, such as increasing interaction between racial groups on campus and between the school and surrounding community.<br /><br />Although she does not oppose the players' return, Chin said, "I worry people will continue to focus on the case and won't address more systemic questions."<br /><br />But Ed Douglas, a team co-captain this season from Baltimore's Gilman School, said he believes the climate has changed since demonstrators banged pots and pans outside the lacrosse house to show their disapproval of players' alleged behavior.<br /><br />"There is no doubt that they would be warmly embraced on the lacrosse team, and I think there are many indications that much of the campus would welcome Reade and Collin as well," Douglas said.<br /><br />He said the players would like to come back to Duke and to the team, whose season was suspended last year after eight games because of the party and the rape investigation.<br /><br />"From my conversations with Reade and Collin, I think they are very strongly considering returning to Duke," Douglas said.<br /><br />The players have asserted their innocence. Seligmann told CBS' 60 Minutes last Sunday that cell-phone records, ATM records and other evidence would prove it was "impossible" for him to have raped the woman. Finnerty said on the program that he thought he'd be cleared by DNA samples taken from the players that found no definitive match with the accuser.<br /><br />In an unrelated case, Finnerty was placed on probation after being charged in a misdemeanor assault in Washington in November.<br /><br />Duke anthropologist Orin Starn said that though the lacrosse case raised questions about race relations, campus drinking and other issues, he believes the players should be allowed back if they are acquitted.<br /><br />"From my perspective, this has never been about any kind of desire to wish bad things for the lacrosse players or any other Duke athletes," Starn said.<br /><br />jeff.barker@baltsun.com<br />Copyright © 2006, The Baltimore SunAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-88850434728073560042006-10-22T20:09:00.000-04:002006-10-22T20:09:00.000-04:00Does anyone have information about the non charged...Does anyone have information about the non charged players considering filing charges? i arrived late and took a slight pass while the troll was around. If this person doesn't have the guts to post his name, why should this blog consider his posts? It could be Nifong or one of his minions conducting a little sock puppetry. The content of the posts suggest the person is entirely clueless and still beating the rented mule. <br />I am clearly intrigued by the last couple posts of which were not known to me. If anyone told the LAX players ANYTHING they well could be liable. They can't provide legal advice to students in a criminal matter. Even the simple "don't tell your parents amounts to legal advice. These players gave photos, evidence(cell photos), DNA and statements to Police under the direction of persons who were operating under quasi parental status. Wait til they start filing suits regarding their Civil Rights and being forced to give statements against interest.The Dudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07417776000068927222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-60803738077076471952006-10-22T19:30:00.000-04:002006-10-22T19:30:00.000-04:005:32 Poster
I am a Duke lacrosse parent. On the d...5:32 Poster<br />I am a Duke lacrosse parent. On the day the Georgetown game was cancelled, both Dean Sue Wasiolek and Tallman Trask admitted that Coach Pressler was told to tell the players "not to inform their parents" about the investigation based on advice "from the Allen Building" (that's Duke administration for those of you off campus). This information is from my contemporaneous notes (but is supported by those of every parent present) Is that good enough for you are you so obtuse that the truth has no bearing for you? To be clear, I am not the source Professor Johnson is quoting. Finally, I deplore anonymous posting, but am well aware that reprisals could well come to our sons from Nifong, Gottlieb, Bell, and yes, Duke administrators and faculty, who seem as unwilling to confront the facts as you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-26795726947142864722006-10-22T19:03:00.000-04:002006-10-22T19:03:00.000-04:00In the "Case Narrative" post on 10.16.06, KC state...In the "Case Narrative" post on 10.16.06, KC stated, <i>"Without informing President Richard Brodhead, administrators demanded from the captains a candid account of the evening’s events, allegedly citing a non-existent “student-faculty” privilege to encourage the captains to disclose any criminal activity. Multiple sources confirm that Coach Mike Pressler, apparently acting on orders from above, instructed the other players not to tell their parents about the police inquiry. Meanwhile, Dean Sue Wasiolek arranged for a local lawyer, Wes Covington, to act as a “facilitator” in arranging for a group meeting with police." </i> It certainly sounds to me that 1) KC has been consistent throughout the past 7 months on this topic. 2) The likely source of the instruction to the LAX team not to contact their parents was Dean Sue Wasiolek. Has anyone seen information to confirm or contradict this hypothesis?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-17647113438359928242006-10-22T18:38:00.000-04:002006-10-22T18:38:00.000-04:00KC: You are doing a terrific job. 5:32 wants you t...KC: You are doing a terrific job. 5:32 wants you to be pained and distracted by continuing to say the same thing over and over. Don't fall for it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-74169469181001659402006-10-22T18:13:00.000-04:002006-10-22T18:13:00.000-04:00To the 5.32:
"I gather that what you are saying i...To the 5.32:<br /><br />"I gather that what you are saying is that you do not have any evidence whatsoever to support your contention that Pressler was acting on orders from above."<br /><br />No, that is not what I'm saying. Again, I invite you to re-read my post, and to keep in mind my earlier comment that I am quite precise in what I say. I often have material given to me on background, from many sources, that informs what I write.<br /><br />As to relying on information from lacrosse parents and players about what the players were told between March 16 and March 24: it seems to me that they are about as reliable a source as possible on this particular question--especially since I was told of this item by seven different people, in seven unrelated conversations that occurred at different times. I could have, I suppose, relied instead on people who walked past the lacrosse playing field during this week; or perhaps Duke students who were listening at the door of the locker room to lacrosse players' conversations. But in my opinion, these sources wouldn't have been as credible.<br /><br />It pains me that you don't consider the claim a credible one. But I'll try to carry on as best I can.kcjohnson9https://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-4109066768550880292006-10-22T18:11:00.001-04:002006-10-22T18:11:00.001-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.kcjohnson9https://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-70921585592324831342006-10-22T18:11:00.000-04:002006-10-22T18:11:00.000-04:00It is clear this Brodhead sycophant is either a fr...It is clear this Brodhead sycophant is either a friend, family member, or just plain wacko. It is also abundantly clear that they need to be ignored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86887872656320213292006-10-22T18:00:00.001-04:002006-10-22T18:00:00.001-04:00To 5:32
"Intellectual dishonesty"??? Let us tur...To 5:32<br /> "Intellectual dishonesty"??? Let us turn this question around a little. Do you assert that coach Dressler acted entirely on his own in this matter? Do you believe he would give his team such amazing instructions without being told to?<br /> The unmistake-able fact about telling someone not to get legal help when facing 30 years in prison is that no-one would do that to their friends. <br /> Who do you think hated the LAX team enough to instigate that plan? Coach Dressler or the Duke administration?<br />Be honest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-64697319186222421882006-10-22T18:00:00.000-04:002006-10-22T18:00:00.000-04:00The lacrosse team parents are not going to say any...The lacrosse team parents are not going to say anything negative about Coach Pressler because they all liked him, and they are mad at Brodhead for firing him. So if Pressler told the players not to contact their parents, then he MUST have been acting on orders from above because that is the only version of events that allows the parents to protect Pressler while pursuing their vendetta against Brodhead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-90639251082601106692006-10-22T17:32:00.000-04:002006-10-22T17:32:00.000-04:00Professor Johnson, now that is really a complete c...Professor Johnson, now that is really a complete cop out. So I gather that what you are saying is that you do not have any evidence whatsoever to support your contention that Pressler was acting on orders from above, but you are just going to say it anyway because the Duke Administration has not denied it. What an absolute bunch of hogwash and just one more spectacular example of the intellectual dishonesty that permeates this website. Also, the fact that you are once again relying on the LAX team parents as your source of information provides additional confirmation that you are really just a mouthpiece for the LAX team parents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com