tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post4891707012326921030..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: Update: The Group's Openly Political Agendakcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger288125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-3525868402993538032007-10-23T13:57:00.000-04:002007-10-23T13:57:00.000-04:00heh, heh... yes, they do, but don't tell KC.anon @...heh, heh... yes, they do, but don't tell KC.<BR/><BR/>anon @10/19 12:51 PMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-15285769730417290252007-10-21T15:24:00.000-04:002007-10-21T15:24:00.000-04:00When do people expect the "next round of court he...When do people expect the "next round of court hearing"? Law suits take years and years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-8088744640376509322007-10-20T02:59:00.000-04:002007-10-20T02:59:00.000-04:00jim2 @10/19 10:45 PMAnything's possible. :-0davejim2 @10/19 10:45 PM<BR/><BR/>Anything's possible. :-0<BR/><BR/>daveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-51383325839632183402007-10-20T01:13:00.000-04:002007-10-20T01:13:00.000-04:0011:57LOL. Bravo.11:57<BR/><BR/>LOL. Bravo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-71608577253795846252007-10-19T23:57:00.000-04:002007-10-19T23:57:00.000-04:00RRH@10/19 2:45 PM clarifies:"The state-of-academia...RRH@10/19 2:45 PM clarifies:<BR/><BR/><I>"The state-of-academia discussion running back up this thread, between w. r. chambers, steven horwitz, duke prof., duke09parent, ralph phelan, and contributing anonymouses (anonymi? anonymoi?)...."<BR/><BR/>anonymice :)</I><BR/><BR/>_____________________________<BR/><BR/><I>That one</I> is going on <B>The List</B>:<BR/><BR/><B>anon•y•mice</B>. <I>noun, plural of </I> anonymouse. Late Lat. <I>anonymus</I>, from Gr. <I>anonymos</I>, from <I>a</I>+<I>nonny nonny</I>. 1) small-brained but otherwise unidentifiable rodents who swarm comment threads moderated by blogger KC Johnson following any post critical of Duke University administration, faculty, or Angry Studies, and whose comments, although undistinguished and indistinguishable from one to another, are characterized by petty pontification, verbalized nouns, quibbles, petulance, passive-aggressive snippiness, whining, and– remarkably– cattiness, while avoiding references to facts, citations, links, logic, or reasoned argument. Not particularly dangerous when cornered, which they often do to themselves, <I>anonymice</I> utter a shrill cry of <I>"collegialiteeee, collegialiteee!"</I> intended to paralyze an attacker, which some authorities believe also to be a mating call, before retiring quickly in wounded dignity or martyrdom. <"KC dissected one alive, so the <I>anonymice</I> are really swarming the thread today."> <I>see also</I>, ankle-biters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-54248807709613181392007-10-19T22:45:00.000-04:002007-10-19T22:45:00.000-04:00Hey dave!Re your 6:55 PM, do you slog in your slog...Hey dave!<BR/><BR/>Re your 6:55 PM, do you slog in your sloggis?<BR/><BR/>;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-54226820660805385802007-10-19T16:59:00.000-04:002007-10-19T16:59:00.000-04:00TO 4:27 PM--All excellent points that cut to the h...TO 4:27 PM--<BR/><BR/>All excellent points that cut to the heart of everything.<BR/><BR/>What will it take for all interested parties to organize and actually do something about it?<BR/><BR/>That's the proverbial question.Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-68154081266580683952007-10-19T16:27:00.000-04:002007-10-19T16:27:00.000-04:00Malfeasance in all respects - not certain if a bi...Malfeasance in all respects - not certain if a billion dollar class action suit by alumni and students is viable - certainly justified IMO.<BR/><BR/>Such an action may very well get the attention of the BOT and the controlling Alumni and result in 'cleaning house'<BR/><BR/>Reasonable persons will conclude that the continuing actions, inactions and incompetence of the BOT, the Admin and the Faculty have and are impacting the 'elite' status of Duke, as well as the expectations insofar as direct and indirect value of the Duke education and the potential for prospects in grad studies, career and employment opportunities.<BR/><BR/>Is the administration's cowardice, the intellectual drivel and mediocre scholarship what we all signed up for. <BR/><BR/>The performance and code of honor expected from Duke students should be matched or exceeded by all those who run 'this place'. This has not been the case; lies, false CVs, questionable basis for tenure and 'late feeble apologies aside' it appears that the malfeasance continues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-85105185230006229052007-10-19T15:41:00.000-04:002007-10-19T15:41:00.000-04:00anon wrote"Thank you [KC] for maintaining [the bol...anon wrote<BR/><BR/>"Thank you [KC] for maintaining [the bolg]. A lot to ask, but can't you hold on here until the next round of court hearings?"<BR/><BR/>Hear, hear!<BR/><BR/>Duke ProfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-32385011264432780052007-10-19T14:45:00.000-04:002007-10-19T14:45:00.000-04:00The state-of-academia discussion running back up t...<I>The state-of-academia discussion running back up this thread, between w. r. chambers, steven horwitz, duke prof., duke09parent, ralph phelan, and contributing anonymouses (anonymi? anonymoi?)....</I><BR/><BR/>anonymice :)<BR/><BR/>RRHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-79752707645548117692007-10-19T12:59:00.000-04:002007-10-19T12:59:00.000-04:00KC, et. al.:The state-of-academia discussion runni...<B>KC</B>, <I>et. al.</I>:<BR/><BR/>The state-of-academia discussion running back up this thread, between w. r. chambers, steven horwitz, duke prof., duke09parent, ralph phelan, and contributing anonymouses (anonymi? anonymoi?)– replete with book titles, citations, intelligent questions, and first-hand knowledge– is a splendid example of what I visit the threads on this blog to read and learn from during these epilogue days.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for maintaining it. A lot to ask, but can't you hold on here until the next round of court hearings? Your country needs you. It's a matter of national security. Luke, trust your feelings. After you, the deluge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-53050713597576770072007-10-19T11:28:00.000-04:002007-10-19T11:28:00.000-04:00w.r. chambers wrote"Are there scholarships conditi...w.r. chambers wrote<BR/><BR/>"Are there scholarships conditioned on a promise to pursue a particular course of study the way, for example, athletic scholarships are conditioned on a promise to play a particular sport?"<BR/><BR/>Yes.<BR/><BR/>"But is there a connection between revenue stream and the hiring of professors like those in the G88?"<BR/><BR/>At Duke, no. But there is a connection between prestige in the eyes of Harvard et al. and the "hiring . . ." <BR/><BR/>Duke ProfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-24545018815731444512007-10-19T10:30:00.000-04:002007-10-19T10:30:00.000-04:00An "Impressionistic" comment after reading many an...An "Impressionistic" comment after reading many and scanning some of the 272 comments when I started this morning:<BR/><BR/>Many/most of the detractors who posted on this thread (and others) have seen the complete dissection of Professor Piot into his component parts, have no adequate response to the embarrasing destruction of his article and have chosen to wander around talking about trivia. They have neither the facts nor the law to advance their position so they are, metaphorically speaking, pounding the table with their shoe. <BR/><BR/>They desperately wish they had something, anything, to throw but they do not. Rather than react to their nonsense and ad hominem attacks they should be pitied. <BR/><BR/>I view the Gang of 88 and their supporters and sympathizers much the way one would watch a train-wreck from a distance...sad and fascinating.....but in this case enormously productive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-19237192696077730192007-10-19T10:15:00.000-04:002007-10-19T10:15:00.000-04:009:21 amWhen did Teachers College start locking eve...9:21 am<BR/><BR/>When did Teachers College start locking everything up tight?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-8769257533403314662007-10-19T09:43:00.000-04:002007-10-19T09:43:00.000-04:00WR asks:Is there any reliable way of knowing which...WR asks:<BR/><BR/><I>Is there any reliable way of knowing which colleges and universities emphasize teaching over curriculum, over research, political correctness, over ...well..emphasize teaching over everything else?</I><BR/><BR/>Not sure how reliable they might be but...<BR/><BR/>1. Smaller colleges/universities, esp. liberal arts colleges, tend to emphasize teaching over research. Find out what the faculty teaching load is, which is normally a good indicator of the relative value of teaching. Places where faculty consistently teach 3 or 4 courses per semester mean that work is valued more than having them spend time on research. If you can find out what the general criteria for tenure are, that will help too.<BR/><BR/>[Note: I don't think you can BE a good teacher without engaging in research and having peer-reviewed publications or the disciplinary equivalent. No "in progress", no conference presentations. Show me the money. My point is just that teaching schools value these differently on the margin. I would not want my kids to be at a school where faculty did not have to publish to get tenure.]<BR/><BR/>2. See if the campus has a teaching and learning center. That will tell you how much they value teaching, all else equal. Also see what sorts of resources they provide faculty to help them teaching writing, speaking, and research skills. Does the school have a writing/rhetoric/communication skills center that serves students and works with faculty to help them teach that material?<BR/><BR/>3. See how much interdisciplinary teaching takes place, <I>especially across divisions of the university, i.e., not just a sociologist and a political scientist, but a biologist and an economist, for example </I>. To teach across major disciplinary barriers requires that people talk about and take seriously how they are going to approach material in the classroom.<BR/><BR/>4. Find out if the institution has faculty awards that are based on teaching.<BR/><BR/>5. Find alums and ask them. :)<BR/><BR/>6. See how the university markets itself. Does it have a mission statement? If so, what does it say? Does it focus on faculty accomplishments (likely not teaching oriented then) or what it does for students (ka-ching)? Research schools tend to be "faculty-centric" while teaching-oriented ones tend to be more "learning-centric" (the good ones anyway - the bad ones are overly "student-centric").<BR/><BR/>None of this says anything about the degree the curriculum or the faculty are "politicized" (left or right). To answer those questions, you'd need to prowl the website and see what's there. Look for course descriptions, syllabi and links to faculty CVs and publications, to the extent they are there.<BR/><BR/>And talk to recent alums.<BR/><BR/>Hope that helps.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86864060164831692562007-10-19T09:21:00.000-04:002007-10-19T09:21:00.000-04:00"Anonymous said... 12:17am--This post is a joke, r..."Anonymous said... <BR/>12:17am--This post is a joke, right?<BR/><BR/>10/19/07 8:18 AM<BR/>Go reread the document KC quoted and tell me that's not a good description of the folks that wrote it.<BR/><BR/>Read UPI to see what happens when people with their belief system have decision making authority.<BR/><BR/>Ask yourself if universities are or should be completely ineffectual in affecting the thinking of those who spend four years there.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I consider 12:17 overly alarmist, but not to the point of absurdity (not like the NYPD hate crimes unit scrambling resources to investigate a noose hung on a Columbia University professor's door in the middle of the night in a locked university property - that's a big enough overreaction to be pretty hilarious.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-13621984940932766352007-10-19T08:18:00.000-04:002007-10-19T08:18:00.000-04:0012:17am--This post is a joke, right?12:17am--This post is a joke, right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-80959440343053066752007-10-19T00:17:00.000-04:002007-10-19T00:17:00.000-04:00I guess dropping the pretense that it's not really...I guess dropping the pretense that it's not really about indoctrinating the kiddies to be good little lefties and using the tools of cultural marxism to do it can be called progress? <BR/><BR/>At the very least this settles many arguements. The cat is out of the bag. America is in trouble and the most dangerous enemy we face is internal. Radical leftists are in full control of many of our institutions and one of our two main political parties. These internal enemies work relentlessly to weaken us enough to be vulnerable to outside enemies, and they are succeeding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-39113117522489333022007-10-18T18:55:00.000-04:002007-10-18T18:55:00.000-04:0010/18 4:34 PM (10/17 2:02 PM; 10/18 1:06 PM):I'd b...10/18 4:34 PM (10/17 2:02 PM; 10/18 1:06 PM):<BR/><BR/>I'd be honored for you to call me "Slogger." Your verb choice. I've done a little slogging, possibly you've done more, and I bet we take equal pride in occasionally doing it successfully. Which is why I take exception to the not-so-subtle, and anonymous, denigration of someone else's efforts wherever undertaken.<BR/><BR/><I>Of course</I> there's no serious comparison between working in the National Archives or Library of Congress and at the AGN in Mexico City... or in a county courthouse or in the production files at Culver Studios, for that matter. The point I'd expect one to take away from this exchange is <I>the work done in them all is the same</I>. Our mss. discovery stories are the same. Primary source material research in the DC institutions requires the same intellectual effort, and sometimes as much detective work, physical labor, dust inhalation, and serendipity as in any other archive. "Others not familiar with archival sources" can be justifiably impressed by someone who's done it in 63 locations throughout the U.S.– with or without finding aids.<BR/><BR/>And if you're not, you're not, though we'll never know exactly why. We <I>can</I> agree that what one <I>does</I> with the research is the more important question, anyway. Go after Johnson on that score (but with citations, not assertions, please), and I'll take a back seat and watch the fun.<BR/><BR/>Yours for successful slogging,<BR/>daveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-75136444955379439312007-10-18T18:17:00.000-04:002007-10-18T18:17:00.000-04:00At 11:27 Steven Horwitz (thank you Steven for such...At 11:27 Steven Horwitz (thank you Steven for such a comprehensive reply to my questions) wrote:<BR/><BR/>"And, frankly, my own view is that pedagogy is more important than curriculum."<BR/><BR/>________<BR/><BR/>Is there any reliable way of knowing which colleges and universities emphasize teaching over curriculum, over research, political correctness, over ...well..emphasize teaching over everything else?<BR/><BR/>What actually is more important than, to quote Steven again <BR/><BR/>".....genuinely challenging students to think, working with them to develop their writing, speaking, and research/evidence evaluation skills, and are evaluating them on the basis of their deployment of those skills rather than the content of their arguments, they are doing their jobs, whatever they might be teaching."................?<BR/><BR/><BR/>How could one tell whether Duke is such a place or not, or for that matter, whether Stanford, Chicago, the Ivies or any number of other colleges or universities are?<BR/><BR/>This isn't the place for asking this question, but I'm wondering how colleges and universities market themselves and whether teaching (the way Steven describes it, which I find very appealing) gets much billing.<BR/><BR/>The new student center that resemebles a resort gets more play than the Classics Professor whose courses are always oversubscribed. <BR/><BR/>Higher education as business is the subject for another time. But is there a connection between revenue stream and the hiring of professors like those in the G88?W. R. Chambershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10827973470339715021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-36228409892754422162007-10-18T18:09:00.000-04:002007-10-18T18:09:00.000-04:00Ralph Phelan wrote"Who are the sauage makers?"Chai...Ralph Phelan wrote<BR/><BR/>"Who are the sauage makers?"<BR/><BR/>Chairs and program directors in conjunction with some faculty, and deans. Pet projects/faculty get special funding from the provost and president. <BR/><BR/>"Do angry studies get size increases because they bring in government grant money"<BR/><BR/>No. Because they're, well, angry -- and have been "oppressed" by (insert your favorite PC villain here). <BR/><BR/>"are believed to be good for Duke's reputation"<BR/><BR/>Yes, in the eyes of those at Harvard et al.<BR/><BR/>"threaten to bring in Jesse Jackson if they don't"<BR/><BR/>They've been acting on like threats for at least 20 years. They've torn a page from the 60's "free speech" playbook.<BR/><BR/>"or other factors I haven't thought of?"<BR/><BR/>The rankings -- a significant component of which is peer review. You saw what they did to Summers. Imagine what they'd do if Duke started "marginalizing" gender/ethnic studies. <BR/><BR/>"Was the decision to upgrade AAAS to departmental status made and executed by the administration on its own, made by the administration and ratified by the BOT, made by the BoT and implemented by the administration?"<BR/><BR/>Faculty agitation with high-level administrative support. Don't know if the BOT was involved. Such "involvement" is almost always pro forma. <BR/><BR/>"To the extent the administration made the decision, was it made at the university-wide level or down at the "arts & sciences" level?" <BR/><BR/>Arts and sciences. <BR/><BR/>"How much (if any) and what sort of influence do the faculty of other departments and other schools have on this kind of thing?"<BR/><BR/>By "this kind of thing," I gather you're referring specifically to goodies for gender/ethnic types. If so, the answer is none. There are always dean/provost/president prerogatives and special funds. <BR/><BR/>"How important are threats by "star" professors to take their marbles and go to Cornell or Vanderbilt? Do they have real leverage, or are they seen as a fungible commodity?"<BR/><BR/>It's the ultimate threat by which to get (more) unearned values.<BR/><BR/>Duke ProfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-32148503834313722712007-10-18T17:51:00.000-04:002007-10-18T17:51:00.000-04:00At 12:29 Duke Prof wrote:"Here's one tactic by whi...At 12:29 Duke Prof wrote:<BR/><BR/>"Here's one tactic by which progaganda-driven departments boost both undergraduate and graduate admissions in their fields. <BR/><BR/>They agitate for and profit from preferences given to favored minority applicants. And they recruit prospective undergraduate and graduate students by showering them with scholarships available only to selected minorities. "<BR/><BR/>_________________<BR/><BR/>Are there scholarships conditioned on a promise to pursue a particular course of study the way, for example, athletic scholarships are conditioned on a promise to play a particular sport?W. R. Chambershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10827973470339715021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-54036699464614091392007-10-18T17:50:00.000-04:002007-10-18T17:50:00.000-04:00TO RRH: Those references are copied, directly from...TO RRH: Those references are copied, directly from Google serch results, that is how they wrote it. I searched for W. Lubiano, and there are two spellings for her. <BR/>Wahneema might want to issue a clarifying statement to Google.<BR/><BR/>------------------------<BR/>Anonymous said... <BR/>traveler said...<BR/><BR/>Re: "A google search for "KC Johnson" returns more than 140,000 hits.”<BR/><BR/>Is your Google --- My Google?<BR/><BR/>Results 1 - 10 of about 2,210,000 for KC Johnson<BR/><BR/>Results 1 - 10 of about 260,000 for Charles Piot<BR/><BR/>Results 1 - 10 of about 83 for Waheema Lubiano<BR/><BR/>10/17/07 6:20 PM<BR/><BR/>(1) try quotemarks around "KC Johnson" (same for Piot)<BR/><BR/>(2) it's Wahneema, I think.<BR/><BR/>RRH<BR/><BR/>10/18/07 4:12 PMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-2590978007616350992007-10-18T16:50:00.000-04:002007-10-18T16:50:00.000-04:00Steve, The book you linked above is worth its own ...Steve, <BR/>The book you linked above is worth its own mention:<BR/>"Education’s End: Why Our Colleges and Universities Have Given Up on the Meaning of Life", by Anthony T. Kronman<BR/><BR/>Kronman is a self-described liberal Yale prof and his book is a critique of the current trend in humanities.<BR/><BR/>Here's a quote from the review of the book in your link :<BR/><BR/>"It was no accident, as the Marxists used to put it, that the faculty at Duke University, unconcerned with anything so trivial as evidence, rushed to condemn the “privileged” white students on the lacrosse team as rapists. The faculty response was an inevitable outgrowth of academic political correctness that, far from eliminating racism, has only sanctioned new strains of it."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-53546769558117869732007-10-18T16:45:00.000-04:002007-10-18T16:45:00.000-04:00MOO! Gregory@ 10/18 3:29 PM:Railway operations und...MOO! Gregory@ 10/18 3:29 PM:<BR/><BR/>Railway operations under Mussolini?<BR/><BR/>Cuban literacy under Castro? the medical care?<BR/><BR/>John Lennon?<BR/><BR/>daveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com