tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post5249534616773486319..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: Case Narrativekcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-52928248575034197702007-07-03T05:29:00.000-04:002007-07-03T05:29:00.000-04:00Hello. I love your blog, it is very nice. You can ...Hello. I love your blog, it is very nice. You can see pictures of me on <B>http://nudecharm.net</B> - See you soon baby ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-11080821633739447232006-12-28T19:20:00.000-05:002006-12-28T19:20:00.000-05:00Who/when will someone go after the Durham Police d...Who/when will someone go after the Durham Police department who assisted in this travesty of justice??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-18369647086548154872006-12-15T01:36:00.000-05:002006-12-15T01:36:00.000-05:00I'm curious as to how Duke's financial standing ha...I'm curious as to how Duke's financial standing has been affected by this scandal. Any figures on endowment, student enrollment, faculty and athletic recruitment, etc.? Have they taken a hit. Some of us believe that while Duke can easily handle 47 lawsuits--don't forget the coach-- such a hollow institution can never fully overcome the stench of cowardice and the inevitable diet of stuffed crow in the faculty club. Refresh my memory: does Duke have a law school?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-86107370746567316242006-11-05T20:10:00.000-05:002006-11-05T20:10:00.000-05:00People like Melissa Clouthier are organized to pro...People like Melissa Clouthier are organized to prove a rape occurred even when it's obvious that it hasn't. <br /><br />Thank God for people likw you who has the courage to speak the truth as people like Melissa Clouthier use victimhood to silence seekers of truth and justice.<br /><br />Keep up the good workAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-11553191348232028752006-10-21T13:16:00.000-04:002006-10-21T13:16:00.000-04:00and please don't forget that the only evidence we'...and please don't forget that the only evidence we've (bloggers, public, media) have been presented with to date has been the prosecutions own evidence which clearly shows reasonable doubt and actually much worse. We have not seen any (or not much) of the defense evidence...<br /><br />those that say that we should let the justice system take its course and let this 'case' proceed to trial should try very hard to put themselves in the lives of the young men accused. Take another look at the facts of this case (no DNA, prosecutors unethical statements, DPD's proclamations of guilt, 2 prior lineups, 3rd and final roulette line up, prosecutors refusal to hear or see exculpatory evidence, a lead investigator's case notes, 31 pages from memory presented 4 months after the fact, that contradict other DPD's notes taken at the time, etc. etc.) would you feel the same if this were your child? Close your eyes and just imagine. Do you still trust the prosecution and police in this case? Will they tell the truth at trial? Do you believe your child will get a fair trial? <br /><br />Personally, what has happened in this case scares the hell out of me. It could have been anyone's child -- if the situation fit Nifong's political agenda at the time.<br /><br />Durham citizenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-45196147358869269832006-10-17T15:52:00.000-04:002006-10-17T15:52:00.000-04:00I think what happened here is pretty clear.
a) An...I think what happened here is pretty clear.<br /><br />a) An unpopular DA is facing almost certain defeat in the upcoming primary.<br /><br />b) A present falls in his lap: A black woman has accused white Duke students of raping her. What great timing!<br /><br />c) After a quick review of the preliminary facts, Nifong comes to the following conclusion: "Hmm, when a hooker works a party and then claims rape, there likely was some sort of sexual activity, consensual or not. If I can indict some of these yahoos and get DNA evidence against them, then it becomes a he said/she said and they will plead out. I get the black vote, and so what if I screw over a few rich kids to do it?"<br /><br />d) In his rush to capitalize politically, he stands way out on a limb, certain that SOME DNA will show up that he can work with.<br /><br />e) No DNA. But it is right before the election, and he can't retreat. He must hold his ground and ignore any exculpatory evidence.<br /><br />f) Discovery takes its course, and all the flaws in his case are in full view. But he can't drop it now, because if he doesn't go to trial then he has no defense at all when he goes on trial. His only hope is to plow on and pray for some reverse jury nullification.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-20739785332415256862006-10-17T15:31:00.000-04:002006-10-17T15:31:00.000-04:00KC,
"In normal circumstances, the media and the...KC, <br /><br />"In normal circumstances, the media and the academy can be counted on to value due process and dispassionate analysis of evidence."<br /><br />You have produced a very good narrative of the Duke Lacross case to date with the exception of the aboved quoted howler. <br /><br />The sad truth is that the media and institutions of higher learning can be counted on the do whatever they think necessary to protect their own interests which only occasionally conincide with the interests of due process and dispassionate analysis. The conduct of the Duke administration and the local paper are par for the course, not exceptions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-1152020581470841992006-10-17T12:28:00.000-04:002006-10-17T12:28:00.000-04:00To 11:43. You demonstrate some really dumb logic. ...To 11:43. You demonstrate some really dumb logic. Would you suggest that a stripper deserves to be raped because of what she does?<br />I doubt it. By the same token, no one deserves to be falsely accused and falsely prosecuted for having a party with strippers. If you can't understand that simple idea, there is really no reason to argue with your dumb logic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-78219637479482968072006-10-17T12:25:00.000-04:002006-10-17T12:25:00.000-04:00anonymous 11:34am:
I think you make a good point....anonymous 11:34am:<br /><br />I think you make a good point. Members of groups should experience consequences when their groups engage in antisocial behavior. <br /><br />I'd suggest social sanctions for legal but obnoxious acts, misdemeanor punishments for misdemeanors, major fines and jail time for felonies.<br /><br />> [The LAX players] held the party<br />--Duke reprimand or a DPD ticket for violating noise ordinances<br /><br />> they engaged in the underage drinking<br />--Underage drinking DPD citation<br /><br />> they hired the strippers<br />--Pointed editorial in the student paper<br /><br />> they hurled the racial epithets<br />[in response to same]<br />--Another pointed editorial<br /><br />> they sent the disgusting email<br />A tasteless <i>joke</i>, playing off a movie studied in class<br />--Eye rolling<br /><br />You missed the worst instance, one player's "broomstick" comment during the dance. Despite Robert's remarks on "60 Minutes," he deserved censure from those who heard him, at the least.<br /><br />But, anonymous 11:34am, three of the forty or so players at the party are facing <b>felony</b> charges, not tickets or college reprimands. This, under circumstances where there is no credible evidence that a felony took place, and where at least two of the three accused have ironclad alibis that rule out their participation in the alleged attack as outlined in any of the alleged victim's accounts.<br /><br />You and a few other commenters seem to be comfortable with how the State is dispensing Justice in this case. <br /><br />Is it because you dislike certain characteristics of the members of <i>this</i> group? What if the police and prosecutors applied the same principles to <i>others</i>? You know, <i>folks like us</i>--the sort of people that you approve of. Would you be okay with that, too?AMachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08872008617279528583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-55894046119521899552006-10-17T12:11:00.000-04:002006-10-17T12:11:00.000-04:00To 11:34
Even if the LAX guys did everything you...To 11:34<br /> Even if the LAX guys did everything you allege ( you mis-characterize them thoroughly) what has that got to do with the mainspring of this mess - which has been the very public proscecution of them for extremely serious, extremely inflammatiory accusations?<br /> Since when has underage drinking, hiring some strippers, and sending tasteless Emails been linked to a nation wide sh!t storm of racial animosity, huge legal bills, and devastated personal lives?<br /> It takes an out of control DA to do that. Nifong is the essential element. Put him somewhere else and he could recreate the same kind of mess immediatedly.<br /> Any other DA I have ever heard of would never have created the Duke mess. They would resign first, if asked to do to so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-22826019101776682922006-10-17T11:34:00.000-04:002006-10-17T11:34:00.000-04:006:39 AM, your comment is very typical of the comme...6:39 AM, your comment is very typical of the comments posted by the LAX team parents and the more radical LAX team supporters. You minimize what the players did by saying that everybody does it, and then you start pointing the finger at others and saying that the real blame lies with them. How convenient for the LAX players. They held the party, they engaged in the underage drinking, they hired the strippers, they hurled the racial epithets, they sent the disgusting email, but they bear none of the blame. In fact, if you say anything critical of the LAX players or have the temerity to suggest that maybe they bear some measure of responsibility for creating this mess, their supporters accuse you of blaming the victims. To borrow a phrase from Kim Roberts, what a crock.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-39380732682501095872006-10-17T10:27:00.000-04:002006-10-17T10:27:00.000-04:00g.m.s.-
Because of the discovery laws in North Ca...g.m.s.- <br />Because of the discovery laws in North Carolina, we already know precisely what evidence (or lack thereof) Nifong has against the Duke 3. There is no good reason to "wait for trial" or to "let a jury decide". He has not only demonstrated for all the world to see that he has NO evidence that a rape occurred, he also refused to listen to the exculpatory evidence that the defense attorneys offered to him.<br />The other reason to not go to trial is that Collin and Reade cannot return to school until they are exonerated. If they must wait for a trial in the spring, they would not be allowed to return until fall. That they have been attending local community colleges during all of this mess is often overlooked. If you believe, as I do, that they simply "lost the lottery" and were picked by the accuser, it just adds to the unjust burden these boys have had to bear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-27617600300617758982006-10-17T09:46:00.000-04:002006-10-17T09:46:00.000-04:00To Anon 11:05 pm:
Yes, the LAX team hiring a coup...To Anon 11:05 pm:<br /><br />Yes, the LAX team hiring a couple of strippers set this whole thing in motion. And yes it was in poor taste, and yes, the individuals who made racist or crude comments should be criticized. <br /><br />That being said, these acts do not excuse the bad acts of Nifong or the Duke administration. And those bad acts by Nifong and Duke administrators were committed by older, more mature individuals with greater forethought and a greater understanding of their consequences. Therefore they deserve harsher and more sustained criticism.<br /><br />Finally, it's interesting how you keep going to the fact that the lacrosse team hired strippers as the basis for your criticism. Shortly after the lacrosse case broke, Ann Coulter (someone whom, I'm guessing, you rarely agree with) made a similar argument. She wrote that tacky behavior-- such as stripping, hiring strippers and getting drunk in public--often results in bad things occurring. By now, I'd imagine, that Coulter has concluded the LAX players are innocent and should not be punished further for their tacky behavior. You, it seems, are neither as reasonable nor as measured as Ms. Coulter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-89049694110914157042006-10-17T09:11:00.000-04:002006-10-17T09:11:00.000-04:00What a great comment thread! I grow tired of heari...What a great comment thread! I grow tired of hearing people claim that this case should go to trial to ensure justice. Justice must be ensured at all steps in the process. It has not been in this case, therefore, the charges should properly be dropped. It is not fair for the D.A. to cheat his way to a trial. The punishment for the D.A.'s unethical behaviour should be the loss of ability to bring these charges.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-29614056491742684612006-10-17T07:40:00.000-04:002006-10-17T07:40:00.000-04:00Make that "accused and accusers" in the first para...Make that "accused and accusers" in the first paragraph.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-20416109500182352072006-10-17T07:37:00.000-04:002006-10-17T07:37:00.000-04:00Pretty much every article and comment I have read ...Pretty much every article and comment I have read about this case has tip-toed around the race and politics of the principals (including the DA, investigators, Duke faculty and administration, and all quote sources) - except for the accused. This is without question a politics/race-based tragi-comedy. Why not get ALL the facts out onto the table. They are relevant here.<br /><br />One of the tenets of feminist, liberal academic, politically-correct thought is that white males and corporate America are evil. Combine the two factors and the offspring of such evildoers will be presumed guilty - of whatever is handy - for no other reason than association with "unquestionably evil" parents and culture.<br /><br />Racism runs both ways. Blacks and whites can exhibit blatantly racist behavior, and neither should be condemed as a group - nor should either get a free pass. To state or imply that it's OK to prosecute whites today without adequate evidence because the same thing happened to blacks yesterday isn't exactly the smartest way forward, but then intellectual rigor is rarely a component of bigotted pronouncements.<br /><br />Anyone who believes a trial guarantees justice has been living in a cave and reading too much fiction. All human endeavors are flawed, and the legal system more than most. Juries screw up all the time, even when well-meaning, and finding such a jury locally in this case might be near to impossible. The best outcome these guys can hope for in Durham is likely a hung jury irrespective of what occurs in the courtroom. And I expect that is exactly what any competent attorney would tell them and their parents. Look for a change of venue motion, denied, followed by a strong appeal to have the case dismissed for lack of merit. Then I hope the reverse lawsuits and investigations begin in earnest. Those need to wait so as not to prejudice or detract from the pending defense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-10858380633591361202006-10-17T06:39:00.000-04:002006-10-17T06:39:00.000-04:00To Anon 11:05 pm
The fact is that they are the on...To Anon 11:05 pm<br /><br /><i>The fact is that they are the ones who decided to hold the party, they are the ones who decided to violate the law and engage in underage drinking, they are the ones who hired the strippers and hurled the racist epithets and sent the disgusting email, and without their decision to do all of those things, there would be no LAX mess.</i><br /><br />Wrong. Without Nifong and his agenda along with his enablers, there would be no LAX mess. What you describe happens quite frequently all over the nation and I would venture to guess, other nations. Stop trying to blame THE VICTIMS!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-54748091512813526312006-10-17T02:39:00.000-04:002006-10-17T02:39:00.000-04:00As a parent of high school and college students, w...As a parent of high school and college students, with a couple of them at colleges comparable to Duke, I have viewed this case with more than a passing interest. One of my children applied, and was accepted at Duke, 6 years ago. He chose not to attend. <br /><br />With two more children applying to college next year, I would not permit them to apply to Duke, nor would they want to apply. The longer this drags out, the longer Nifong doesn't do the right the right thing, the more parents will feel as I do. I hope that Duke realizes that their reputation is being destroyed and that the best students in the country will not consider applying to Duke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-66281027553458306532006-10-17T01:26:00.000-04:002006-10-17T01:26:00.000-04:00someone wrote:
"The fact that the LAX players are...someone wrote:<br /><br />"The fact that the LAX players are not the first college students to hold a party with underage drinking and strippers does not exonerate them from responsibility for their actions."<br /><br />I would be interested in knowing what exactly this means. What do you recommend their punishment be for this transgression? Should such a punishment be applied equally to all party makers or just lacrosse players.<br /><br />Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-20599508268708076532006-10-17T01:23:00.000-04:002006-10-17T01:23:00.000-04:00How anyone can say this case needs to go to trial ...How anyone can say this case needs to go to trial and believe in our justice system in Durham, NC is the biggest joke I have heard in a long time. Who could have any faith in that happening. They haven't gotten ONE thing right down there!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-20148598289877869812006-10-16T23:59:00.000-04:002006-10-16T23:59:00.000-04:00Dr. Johnson's statement on sources saying players ...Dr. Johnson's statement on sources saying players should not talk to their parents about the investigation is upsetting. Will anyone step forward for attribution on this story? Will anyone say from whom that advice originated? And please don't just say Brodhead because you don't like him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-43043923091032368302006-10-16T23:25:00.000-04:002006-10-16T23:25:00.000-04:00And are you related to Brodhead? He looked real pa...And are you related to Brodhead? He looked real pathetic on 60 Minutes the other day. Especially in comparison to Dr. Coleman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-87313602660516040532006-10-16T23:23:00.000-04:002006-10-16T23:23:00.000-04:00Your point is a complete and utter nonsense. So th...Your point is a complete and utter nonsense. So there. Happy now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-77639901435241861192006-10-16T23:05:00.000-04:002006-10-16T23:05:00.000-04:008:56 PM, every word that comes out of your mouth j...8:56 PM, every word that comes out of your mouth just keeps proving my point. The fact that the LAX players are not the first college students to hold a party with underage drinking and strippers does not exonerate them from responsibility for their actions. The fact is that they are the ones who decided to hold the party, they are the ones who decided to violate the law and engage in underage drinking, they are the ones who hired the strippers and hurled the racist epithets and sent the disgusting email, and without their decision to do all of those things, there would be no LAX mess. However, the LAX parents do not want to acknowledge the fact that their sons are the ones who brought this mess down on Duke, they prefer to pound on Brodhead so they can punish him for canceling the LAX season and hopefully take some of the heat off their kids. As long as you and K.C. continue to ignore or minimize the key role that the LAX players played in creating this mess while simultaneously pounding away on Brodhead, you will continue to prove my point that this website is not engaged in objective analysis of the LAX situation but is instead pursuing a biased and one-sided agenda.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-30305557582521999772006-10-16T22:46:00.000-04:002006-10-16T22:46:00.000-04:00Here's what I sent in response to Duke's alumni as...Here's what I sent in response to Duke's alumni association email soliciting comments on "campus culture" ...<br /><br />Like other native Californians, I was taught from an early age to look upon the South as a land of rubes who have little sense for justice or even decency toward others. It has always been Duke's misfortune to be rooted in such a backwater. Today, long after the University buried in its past the sins of segregation, and as the prosecutor’s case has unfolded (dare I call it what it is: unraveled?), it’s sadly apparent that the Durham of old, the community that treated Blacks with indecency and injustice, has kept alive its worst sins, with the only difference being the race of the victims of the local rubes.<br /><br />The utter lack of evidence against the students - and the shockingly botched legal process - ought to have been enough to galvanize the University to support its own students. I can only assume that Duke, after generations of local injustice, has lost the common sense of decency and justice that those of us to your north and west would expect as a minimum standard of conduct. If that’s the case, then it’s clear what you must do first: the University – led by the faculty and its apparently amoral president – have torn their moorings loose and are adrift without a moral compass, and they need new leadership.<br /><br />That the faculty can be so vocal in its condemnation of the students, and that no vocal faculty member has put voice to what is so obvious – that the students are being railroaded – speaks to the real scandal of Duke University. The faculty is a huge problem. Its disdain for its students is obvious even from my distance. The lack of intellectual diversity of the faculty, and their silly opinions and hate speech that we alumni have heard, suggests the kind of decay that we’d expect from a much older South.<br /><br />In fact, the University’s administration has shown a complete lack of the kinds of courage required of real leadership. I was appalled to read that several lacrosse players’ game statistics were removed from a University web site. Really, now: playing us for fools didn’t work for Stalin, and the people who were so clumsily stupid as to think they could get away with such a cheap trick really have no place in a school that seeks to attract smart kids.<br /><br />I don’t believe Duke is more hostile to Blacks now than it was when I had the privilege of studying there more than 25 years ago. Duke today appears to have an opposite cultural problem. The very shoddy and unjust treatment of its students, which the administration apparently has sanctioned and some faculty have even promoted, suggests that strong action needs to be taken, with all urgency, to change the campus culture that has allowed a new generation of bigots who happen to have PhDs and tenure to run amuck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com