tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post7423592132490335604..comments2024-02-24T05:19:10.949-05:00Comments on Durham-in-Wonderland: ABC on Lawsuit Possibilitykcjohnson9http://www.blogger.com/profile/09625813296986996867noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-63351977316472030202007-09-27T11:17:00.000-04:002007-09-27T11:17:00.000-04:00TIme will tell - just as it has with many aspects ...TIme will tell - just as it has with many aspects of this case. I do not remember anyone writing Nifong would not be disbarred or never convicted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-59704688953975881942007-09-27T08:49:00.000-04:002007-09-27T08:49:00.000-04:00"The FEds are not coming, there will be no new dis..."The FEds are not coming, there will be no new discovery"<BR/><BR/>Yeah, right. Just like Nifong will never be disbarred, and never be convicted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-50149589163340510342007-09-26T23:44:00.000-04:002007-09-26T23:44:00.000-04:00Re: 4;45 PM. and ONE SPOOKAbsolutely fabulous id...Re: 4;45 PM. and ONE SPOOK<BR/><BR/>Absolutely fabulous idea! Poetic justice! "Suspend" the 88ers classes, and fire the Wahneeennaaa etc. who captained the team. <BR/><BR/>Yes! Best idea ever.<BR/><BR/>What? Throw these dear "innocents" under the bus? <BR/><BR/>Of course. Duke's system of justice.<BR/><BR/>Welcome to "turn around's fair play" friends and neighbors.<BR/><BR/>Revenge is SWEET.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-84328802224571992812007-09-26T22:41:00.000-04:002007-09-26T22:41:00.000-04:00I wish I could remember exactly where I said it. ...I <B>wish</B> I could remember exactly where I said it. But when John "they're not choirboys" Burness was quoted in a story saying this was "a teachable moment", I wrote a letter to the publication saying that I expected, when the dust settled, that it would be Mr. "apologize, for what?" Burness who would be having "a teachable moment" all his own.<BR/><BR/>It's good to be right. :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-51770105511671128822007-09-26T22:27:00.000-04:002007-09-26T22:27:00.000-04:00"...once KC goes to Israel, the event is over."In ...<I>"...once KC goes to Israel, the event is over."</I><BR/><BR/>In your dreams.<BR/><BR/>Besides, Israel is not Mars.Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-65269722130819916462007-09-26T21:54:00.000-04:002007-09-26T21:54:00.000-04:003:59 Other than Nifong, who got himself in to deep...3:59 Other than Nifong, who got himself in to deep, even Durham could not save him, the rest of the Durham officals and PD are safe. "Out of towners changing the town" - not in our lifetime. i do not live in NC and care not at all about Durham or NC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-36780687470509145472007-09-26T21:51:00.000-04:002007-09-26T21:51:00.000-04:00$260,000K each. Is it to late to join the team and...$260,000K each. Is it to late to join the team and get part of the payoff? Even Gottlieb is presumed innocent until proven quilty. Or does that just apply to the "boys?" The FEds are not coming, there will be no new discovery - as titillating as it would be and once KC goes to Israel, the event is over.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-74522861701891304742007-09-26T21:47:00.000-04:002007-09-26T21:47:00.000-04:00TO Ralph Phelan--(12:05 PM)Sorry for the late repl...TO Ralph Phelan--<BR/>(12:05 PM)<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the late reply. I am usually going to different websites while I'm posting here and I missed your comment.<BR/><BR/>I should say "Duh" to my question since the answer was contained inside KC's link. I didn't read it then...with the plan to come back later. <BR/><BR/>Like right now. LIS!<BR/><BR/>So, it's Charles Cooper. <BR/><BR/>Well....I don't know anything about him except what the article says. His statements seem too tentative.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, you asked for Warren Zevon...and since tonight there is a full moon.....voila!<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhSc8qVMjKM" REL="nofollow">Werewolves</A>Debrahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567454727276881424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-66308071355610107982007-09-26T21:46:00.000-04:002007-09-26T21:46:00.000-04:0012:24I'm with you. I hope they do go to court. T...12:24<BR/>I'm with you. I hope they do go to court. There is absolutely NO WAY that the Duke administration can defend their admitted FERPA violations. That puts them in Federal court. Violation of the privacy act times at least 46 players.mmmmm....sounds like either big bucks or big lock-ups. Take your pick. Question is how many in the administration will be forced to go to the bank or to the booking room.<BR/>Now, let's talk civil rights violations. Yep. No defense here either.<BR/>And this is just Duke and just on two points.<BR/><BR/>The DPD. There isn't even enough time to go into all of that. Rights violated at the voluntary DNA testing. Abuses by Gotlies, Add-a-sin, Will-sin, and the list goes on.<BR/><BR/>Do all 46 deserve money from Duhhh? Probably not. At least not big bucks. Reade, Collin, and Dave------definitely.<BR/>Duke--pay up is coming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-7095211634820359392007-09-26T21:05:00.000-04:002007-09-26T21:05:00.000-04:00Regarding AN OPEN APOLOGY (12:38):Gustafson did no...Regarding AN OPEN APOLOGY (12:38):<BR/><BR/>Gustafson did not say at all that he misquoted Holloway for writing that white innocence means black guilt. Holloway in fact wrote that.<BR/><BR/>Here's a link to Gustafson's letter: http://dukemagazine.duke.edu/dukemag/issues/091007/depfor.html#lacro<BR/><BR/>Gustafson *did* say that he that he was unclear or had implied a statement not made by Holloway. He corrected his record to state:<BR/><BR/><< Dr. Holloway, in her article, "Coda: Bodies of Evidence," did not herself set forth the equations above but discussed how many in society viewed the case, stating that "… innocence and guilt have been assessed through a metric of race and gender." >><BR/><BR/>I brought up essentially this point to KC in his top 32 countdown (see: http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2007/09/top-32-countdown-iv.html) -- I suggested that Holloway's equation was a lament describing how attitudes were in Durham at the time, not necessarily how they should be.<BR/><BR/>KC stated clearly that he doesn't see the remark as a lament. I disagree with him on that note, but I do agree with him that the document was polarizing and suggested that racial solidarity could trump pursuit of truth.<BR/><BR/>Even in our disagreement, I see KC's line as a different interpretation of a difficult/confusing line of text to parse. There's nothing demonstrably false in what he's said.<BR/><BR/>- jamegumbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-6961889889943037742007-09-26T20:18:00.000-04:002007-09-26T20:18:00.000-04:0012:24 --"I hope duke does not settle and goes to c...12:24 --<BR/><BR/>"I hope duke does not settle and goes to court this time and rakes the team over the fire with their disciplinary records, police files, etc. ie, the actual facts of the team behavior, not <B>the pr campaign they have been waging</B>"<BR/><BR/>You know, that's the second time this week I've seen someone allege a "PR campaign" being waged by the players. I am assuming that you do <I>not</I> mean ordinary people, like the ones on this blog, who are of their own free will and without pay standing up for what is right -- because then you would have to admit that the same label of "a PR campaign" applies to every single person who banged pots, who wrote letters to the editors condemning the players (frequently based wholly on the lies told by the police or the prosecutor), who shot off their mouths about "silent whiteness", and yes, it would certainly include the New Black Panther Party, who came in FROM OUT OF TOWN declaring that <I>they</I> had already found the players "guilty" (before, it seems, so much as speaking to a single one of them, courtroom death threats excepted.)<BR/><BR/>So let's give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not engaged in hypocritical one-sided name-calling when you use the term "PR campaign". Please, then, name for us <B>one</B> person or firm who is part of this "PR campaign". Just one. That's all you need. Just one. Just demonstrate for us that the allegation you are making is not a slander made up entirely by you to conform to your own bigoted view. All you need is one. Just make the public statement, which will be legally actionable if you are lying or speaking with reckless disregard for the truth, "X is being paid money for the primary purpose of orchestrating public opinion regarding the players."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-16904608578457767192007-09-26T17:24:00.001-04:002007-09-26T17:24:00.001-04:00These lawsuits involving the remaining lax players...These lawsuits involving the remaining lax players are civil lawsuits. The Feds would bring criminal charges. We can still have both--it's not either/or.<BR/><BR/>Discovery won't happen. They'll wimp out and settle. If for no other reason, Brodhead should be fired for costing the University millions in settlements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-72527559403540524702007-09-26T17:24:00.000-04:002007-09-26T17:24:00.000-04:00Anon @ 4:45 writes:"In response to the various pen...Anon @ 4:45 writes:<BR/><BR/><I>"In response to the various pending legal actions, perhaps Duke should cancel the African-American Studies Department's semester, so the department can focus on proving its innocence in court. Maybe set up a few committees, too."</I><BR/><BR/>Excellent idea ... best seen to date! Whatever the Angry Studies Department did was bad enough! I also think firing the department head would be a good idea too, so Duke can "move forward in a new direction."<BR/><BR/>One SpookOne Spookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592774438681904368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-11957827445092434152007-09-26T16:45:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:45:00.000-04:00In response to the various pending legal actions, ...In response to the various pending legal actions, perhaps Duke should cancel the African-American Studies Department's semester, so the department can focus on proving its innocence in court. Maybe set up a few committees, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-25220076827078752682007-09-26T16:42:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:42:00.000-04:004:06pm, you're forgetting that, while they're snak...4:06pm, you're forgetting that, while they're snakes, they possess an intentional, selective blindness. Besides, there's really nothing they can do to defend themselves anyway.<BR/><BR/>BDay, I think the feds are still waiting to see when/if the state clears house, and they're undergoing a big change at the top. Give it time, and if the NC AG doesn't get involved and soon, expect a redux of General Sherman arriving at Atlanta.Mandelbrot's Chaoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16707481552099334302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-16474988903920949352007-09-26T16:30:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:30:00.000-04:00BDayAnna Mills Wagoner, the US Attorney for the di...BDay<BR/><BR/>Anna Mills Wagoner, the US Attorney for the district Duke is in, is a former North Carolina judge.<BR/><BR/>Need I say more?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-69313593280559732142007-09-26T16:28:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:28:00.000-04:00"This theater of the absurd was staged by a tiny m..."This theater of the absurd was staged by a tiny minority of faculty whose political agenda supersedes the academic standards that Columbia University should stand for."<BR/><BR/>As with Duke, the majority let it happen, and have been letting similar things happen for a long time. The academy is supposedly self-governing, so they are responsible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-8983711570439003972007-09-26T16:26:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:26:00.000-04:00I am still simply dumbfounded as to how the Feds h...I am still simply dumbfounded as to how the Feds have not gotten involved in this case. The number of wrongs done in this case is almost too numerous to count, and I am sure the discovery process would lead to many more. We the people should demand or justice system do better. If the Feds don't act on this one, the people (voters) should make themselves heard. <BR/><BR/>BDayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-50544616691603615952007-09-26T16:22:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:22:00.000-04:00FWIW, I posted a long time ago (I'm not in the moo...FWIW, I posted a long time ago (I'm not in the mood to find it) that WL's "perfect offenders" statement had been misunderstood. She was offering an analysis of the way they were being treated, not saying that she, herself, saw them that way. She even used the word "alleged" in the extracts quoted above.<BR/><BR/>The LS email gives away her game. No need to misread her, uh, challenging prose for bonus points.Steven Horwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00470758334242360804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-5825662600008017282007-09-26T16:08:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:08:00.000-04:003:57 Shhhhh... don't tell them. I am YEARNING f...3:57 Shhhhh... don't tell them. I am YEARNING for the discovery to begin. Unless it does, there will always be a spin on it all and the truth will continue to be the biggest victim.<BR/><BR/>Don't warn them. Let them enter this hall of mirrors, and let them learn what it is like to have the shoe on the other foot.<BR/><BR/>Please don't scare them away. Feed their pore little ole martyred and misunderstood egos. Let them think that no reasonable court will find them guilty.<BR/><BR/>Just let it happen. <BR/><BR/>We NEED the rooms to be cleared of the snakes. If you alert them that we are coming, they will coil and strike. Just be quiet and watch it happen.<BR/><BR/>Yeahhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-55741409445246084182007-09-26T16:04:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:04:00.000-04:00Nancy Grace was "out of town"; The NY Times was "...Nancy Grace was "out of town"; The NY Times was "out of town"; the battle was / is being fought for some fundamental rights and safety measures of a free society and academic freedom ( TO LEARN.... that is what parents pay for! Not indoctrination, but knowledge). <BR/><BR/>This is not a merely local issue. Anybody with three brain cells to rub together knows that. <BR/><BR/>A simple but sincere admission of wrong-doing and an APPROPRIATE apology from Duke, Durham, the idiot 88ers, and the DPD would have saved these groups MILLIONS of dollars.<BR/><BR/>But their pride and PC agenda are now going to cost, and cost big. <BR/><BR/>The people who COULD have turned Durham around, and voted Nifong out, just turned their heads instead. NOW it is their turn to see what it looks like when the truth begins to come out and they learn they have been complicit by passivity. <BR/><BR/>The lesson is huge... not just for Durham.<BR/><BR/>In a free society, everybody suffers when the laws are spurned.<BR/><BR/>School is in session in Durham. Let the books be opened and the lessons begin.<BR/><BR/>dslAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-11507007111883101472007-09-26T16:00:00.000-04:002007-09-26T16:00:00.000-04:003:29 Good points, and were my thoughts exactly. D...3:29<BR/> Good points, and were my thoughts exactly. Duke will settle, they have already shown how easily they roll over, and want in a bad way for this to be over. The discovery process would be very embarrasing for them, epsecially when the behavior of their professors comes to the forefront. <BR/><BR/>BDayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-46862340620549083402007-09-26T15:59:00.000-04:002007-09-26T15:59:00.000-04:00To 12:24:If local Durhamites are incapable of, or ...To 12:24:<BR/><BR/>If local Durhamites are incapable of, or too stupid to - clean their own town of corruption, incompetence and bigotry, you cannot cry foul when people from "out of town" have to do it for you!<BR/><BR/>A major part of the problem is that morons like yourself cannot understand that Durham is not an independent republic - it is part of a state and that state is part of a nation.<BR/><BR/>Realise just for once that Durham is an embarassment to the whole country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-68817600420612498952007-09-26T15:57:00.000-04:002007-09-26T15:57:00.000-04:00As the learned counsel over at LS notes, a lawsuit...As the learned counsel over at LS notes, a lawsuit by the remaining Lax 43--under the astute stewardship of their lead attorney (Cooper)--will almost assuredly survive Duke's inevitable motion to dismiss. If the lawsuit does survive the motion, as expected, from Duke's perspective, quite literally, all Hell breaks loose. From this point forward ample and onerous discovery commences and it's "game on." And it is also at the motion to dismiss denial--at that precise moment--that Duke's fate is sealed. At that moment, Brodhead resigns, Steele resigns (if their sorry butts are still around by then), and the G88 begin to wake up in the middle of the night in a cold, uncomfortable sweat.<BR/><BR/>Only those who have been on the wrong side of a potentially personally bankrupting lawsuit can even begin to understand the pain these bastards will confront.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32542246.post-59999877167055613302007-09-26T15:47:00.000-04:002007-09-26T15:47:00.000-04:00anonymous at 12:42 PM said: "1. once again, notice...anonymous at 12:42 PM said: <I>"1. once again, notice how the person promoting punishment of durham and supporting the Lax players IS FROM OUT OF TOWN. this is a constant."</I> I am from Durham and I am not opposed to the LAX3 getting compensation, nor am I opposed to the other aims of their proposed litigation. I am not alone. People in Durham are capable of seeing that we have a problem with the supervision of the Police Department. <BR/><BR/><I>2.I hope duke does not settle and goes to court this time and rakes the team over the fire with their disciplinary records, police files, etc. ie, the actual facts of the team behavior, not the pr campaign they have been waging</I> It is a convenient talking point to claim a PR campaign. Unfortunately, the facts of the lacrosse case are fairly well established. There was no DNA from any of the defendants or any other person at the party, other than Ms. Mangum's. There was no rape. No physical evidence corroborated Mangum's numerous stories. Even Mike Nifong dropped the rape charges and tried, if briefly, to proceed on kidnapping and sexual assault. However, there was no evidence to support a charge of sexual assault as Ms. Mangum could not reliably identify anyone who assaulted her. Further, there was no evidence of an actual assault, sexual or otherwise. "Difuse adema" is not evidence of an assault given Mangum's prior activities. Finally, there is no evidence of a kidnapping, no matter how brief. She could not identify any potential kidnappers, and at least one of the people she did identify had an alibi for the time of the alleged kidnapping. As for the students records, it is supposition as to what they contain. But, a revealation of those records will be balanced against the record of Duke University and its employees. <BR/><BR/><I>3. The duke 3 had no grounds to sue either as it is perfectly reasonable to suspend students charged with a FELONY from a college campus. duke settled because they were cowardly and routinely settle lawsuits to avoid publicity but had they gone to court, duke would have won as the grounds for suit were shaky.</I> Suspension for being charged with a felony is, on its face, reasonable. But, once it became clear, no later than May, 2006, that the felony charges were bogus, the suspensions were no longer reasonable. But, it was not reasonable to suspend the lacrosse season. The other players were not indicted. It was not reasonable to fire Coach Pressler as it appears to any disinterested observer that he exercised reasonable institutional oversight of the program. It was not reasonable to circulate a poster accusing the team of a "wall of silence". Especially so when the team was, according to initial police reports, cooperating with the police. Telling the truth, when it is not what the police want to hear is not being uncooperative. Using class time to denigrate the lacrosse team was certainly not unreasonable.<BR/><BR/>Walt in Durham.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com