Richard Reay of Riverdale, N.Y. writes:
I have a suggestion regarding that last speculation about the 88 Duke professors who took out that ad against the university's lacrosse team: Have them all take courses on due process, libel, mass hysteria and totalitarianism and submit papers on how their behavior in taking out that ad represented a danger to constitutional liberty and the social compact. Then they could take out another ad apologizing to the lacrosse players, their families, Duke University and the community at large, fully explaining how their original ad was a failure of civic self-control. Failure to do any of the above would result in termination. They should also be fined an amount of money that would help defray the costs of the families' legal expenses. As for defendant David Evans's news conference statement upon acquittal -- "we're just as innocent today as we were back then. Nothing has changed, the facts don't change" -- it should be included in any future book of great American speeches.
And from San Antonio's George Cochran:
Justice will not have been done at Duke until the players and their parents are restored financially, both Mike Nifong and the complainant are criminally charged and convicted, and the professors who signed the nasty statement concerning the players and the team are censured and required to apologize. When all this is done and as publicized as all the accusations and indictments were, then, and only then, will justice have been done.
Is anyone still paying attention to this?
ReplyDeleteThe three have had their day. Lets move on and begin the healing.
I agree wholeheartedly with the last quote.
ReplyDeleteHe had showed you, O man, what is good. And what is required by your Lord but to love kindness, do justice, and walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
These boys have walked humbly. It is now time for society to "do justice." Restore those boys families, prosecute the offenders, and force acts of contrition on the Gang of 88.
I am still paying attention. I think part of healing is to make sure that those that created the environment and caused the harm, out of active and aggressive intervention that turned out to be both unethical and wrong, need to be brought to "justice", much the same as they advocated for the "boys", but in a completely ethical and responsible manner.
ReplyDeleteHEALING...how arrogant of you
ReplyDeletetell that to the unprofessional Group of 88 who you want to COVER up for...
the PC crowd always fades when they lose..never apologizes, never respects religion until they need the redemption, never stops attacking ethical people...i say INVESTIGATE all their PHD thesis..they have shoown a PATTERN in CONDUCT to avoid the facts and NOW its their turn to be examined...this time of the FACTS and PERSONAL scholarship ?
the three havent had their day...until the group of 88 is expunged from the school and their conduct becomes a CASE STUDY of racism GONE WILD
I would like to hope that Mr. Reay would include those who were indoctrinating the Korean student in Virginia with the G88. Not necessarily professors in Virginia.
ReplyDelete::
This is from the Chicago Tribune...
"The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that the note railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus."
::
Rich Kids = Privileged
Debauchery = Take Back the Night
Deceitful Charlatans = White Male Athletes
There is a common message here in my mind.
Would it be possible for all of us to listen for information about where this kid was going to be indoctrinated and who these teachers are?
GP
Yes, many, many of us are paying attention and we will continue to pay attention and write and push and demand that "reparations" be made.
ReplyDelete"Justice will not have been done at Duke until the players and their parents are restored financially, both Mike Nifong and the complainant are criminally charged and convicted, and the professors who signed the nasty statement concerning the players and the team are censured and required to apologize."
Perfectly said!
By the way, 8:47 , obviously YOU are still reading here!
"and the complainant are criminally charged and convicted,"
ReplyDeletewho made this statement;
1. Nifong
2. Group of 88
3. Potbangers
Have we learned nothing yet?
Tom
847 seems to use the logic of a professor at duke...
ReplyDeleteGary Packwood 9pm--
ReplyDeleteYour comments are both stupid and tasteless. You are just a mirror image of the people you condemn.
8:47
ReplyDeleteYes I am paying attention!
Nifong had his 1 year plus and the 3 deserve more than a day.
Let the healing begin when Nifong & Co are behind bars.
It is clear at this point that the Duke administration is spineless when it comes to calling their faculty to account for their actions, even when the negative effects of their actions fall upon their own students.
ReplyDeleteI hope that alumni seek to establish a conditional endowment for the university contingent upon these 88 faculty member either issuing a full, unmitigated apology or being released from their employment.
I am still paying attention.
ReplyDeleteI wonder when the bar association is going to look into the shabby ethical negligence of the assistants in Nifong's office. Those lawyers aren't exempt from ethical responsibility just because they were 'following orders' issued by a moral retard.
ATN- 8:47PM
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question, OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE STILL PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS! ARE YOUR REALLY THAT OBTUSE...TO ASK A QUESTION THAT ANSWERS ITSELF? YOU MUST TRULY BE A VERY STUPID PERSON.
agreed. However, now we know "something happened". Meehan admitted under oath (and Nifong later confirmed) that they had conspired. They must be punished. Due process will decide the punishment in court. Who knows, maybe Nifong can ask his (rich?) daddy to hire expensive lawyers and evade justice. Still, "something happened".
ReplyDeleteIn anycase, the first letter was great. This is something gang88 should be required to do as a part of the larger meta-narrative in the context of race, sports and class (heh). They broke every rule in Faculty Handbook and civic behaviour in general.
I would like to push Horowitz's academic freedom initiatives, in order to overcome future gang88ers. I know some people (including KC) reject this and they say that academia can police itself. As Duke Hoax has exposed, this is clearly not the case. Academia is unable, unwilling and uncapable of doing that. Far-left extremists run these once-great institutions.
Gary says:
ReplyDeleteRich Kids = Privileged
Debauchery = Take Back the Night
Deceitful Charlatans = White Male Athletes
It could be that he had other deamons.
Isn't a bit early for conclusions?
There is a tendency to forgive and forget. Not here. Justice needs to be served. What Nifong et alia did was a serious transgression. A very serious transgression. It cries out for punishment.
ReplyDeleteHere's the reasonable person's translation of the post from 8:47pm...
ReplyDelete"Oh, crap! You're still pissed about the horrible hatchet job we did on these three innocent men?
Isn't not going to prison for 30 years enough? I'm sure that, the next time all us bigots rush to judgment, there will be at least some factual basis for our racist outrage. Hey, how about that Hitler? He was bad, huh?"
To the poster who asks
ReplyDelete"Is anyone still paying attention to this?"
Well, you were the first post, so obviously, you seem to be paying attention.
And it's not over. Far from it.
8:47?
ReplyDeleteMove on?
Had one of these boys been your son, would you want us all to walk away and let the "healing" begin?
(that is, also after having spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, having your kid's name dragged through the mud for a year, and more)
anon 8:47
ReplyDeleteIf you are uninterested in what is discussed on this site any longer, take your own advice and move on....
8:47 PM
ReplyDeleteI am still paying attention too. The Lacrosse Hoax may be over but the Mike Nifong Scandal is just in its first act.
I don't think it's possible to move on and begin healing until all of Nifong's enablers are held accountable. The Group of 88 are prominent members of Nifong's supporting cast and I want them to receive the credit that is due them.
AG Roy Cooper was unequivocal. The Duke students are INNOCENT and now I'm waiting for some member of the Group of 88 to break the faculty "wall of silence" and to apologize
for their part in the Hoax.
Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
ReplyDeleteCharles Mackay pointed this out over a century ago and there has been little progress sense. Except that the expansive use of "men" for "people" is no longer acceptable.
Gary Packwood
ReplyDeleteWell put! This indoctrination begins from the minute kids enter into an educational institution. My son, in MS, is being taught by his "social studies" teacher that whites have caused problems for all other races, that we need others "in power" because white men have always been "in power." This is a teacher(white) who talks about the need for "conflict resolution" and "sensitivity training" and "how not to bully lessons!" How ironic.
Luckily my son is stable and receives self esteem building at home,but what hatred is she feeding into the children that already have low self esteem? She's not alone in her indoctrination techniques either. And, if one complains, the retaliation is against the child.
Certainly this is not over and done with, nor can healing begin so long as this despicable DA is STILL IN OFFICE. My goodness, what does it take to kick him out?
ReplyDeleteThe Durham Police...what did they know, and when did they know it. Until/Unless they are held acvcountable for THEIR actions in this sordid mess. every citizen in Durham is at risk.
ReplyDeleteHealing - this will take years, aThe Korean in Birginia Tech was very sick for years also. reports estimate this guys has had mental torment for a least eight years. Long before College - doubt there is to much PC at Tech. English teacher states she " brought him to the attention of the school - as with stalkers, under current law not to much can be done before they do something. Law needs to changed = at least get a psych eval.
ReplyDeleteThe RA who tried to help her was black = a normal everyday citizen. I want blacks to have the American dream. Sorry KC - off topic.
Sorry about the typos - still recovering from brain surgery and sometimes don't get it.
ReplyDeleteWhile some would say we should move on, this may be a good time to remember Coach K's early days at Duke. At dinner after a 30-point loss to UVA in the ACC tournament, someone raised a glass and said "Here's to forgetting about tonight." Krzyzewski then picked up his own glass and answered, "Here's to never f******* forgetting about tonight."
ReplyDeleteDuke University needs to remember this case for a long time, and I would think that academicians at a lot of other universities need to do so as well. Same goes for district attorneys.
10:13
ReplyDeleteThe only American dream that most blacks want is a free ride, special treatment like was given to the prostitute CGM, and a full supply of chitlins.
Many don't concern themselves with what being American means.
They just like the rewards.
10:26
ReplyDeleteA full supply of chitlins sounds good. Will you send me some?
I think once the boys' lawyers start the discovery process, the dumbest members of the G88 will find themselves respondetns in some nasty lawsuits.
Polanski
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNifong's hat trick 10:03
ReplyDeletePerhaps certain large universities need to go through a strategic planning process every three years or so to determine if they have a commitment from all stakeholders that they should continue offering undergraduate education.
It is not out of the realm of possibility that 4 or 5 large universities could become federations of professionals schools (Medicine, Law and Business Administration) and give up their undergraduate programs.
Undergraduate schools should be all about the kids in my view, and faculty/staff who wish to change what individual kids believe and how they think without a signed authorization from the kid...are providing me at least, with a clear signal that the university itself is no longer in the business of undergraduate education.
Best wishes to your son...and as always... tell him...Never let the bastards grind you down :-)
Thanks for your comments
GP
Those letters couldn't have put it better. It's not over. Chapter 2 (the best chapter) is just beginning.
ReplyDelete10:26
ReplyDeleteYour ugly and angry attitude is no different than that of those who created and sustained the duke rape hoax.
Please go away. This blog should not be associated with your kind of hate & ignorance.
When you have tenure you never have to say you are sorry.
ReplyDeleteWhat really needs to be examined is the tenure system. It keeps the incompetent employed for life. No private industry would accept this sham.
Ward Churchill, anyone?
JLS says....,
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have a list of the 88 gangsters who signed on to the ad, WITH TITLES. I want to count up the number who are instructors or assistant professors or visiting who could terminated in May 2008 with a letter issued before the end of classes this term.
People like to say the 88 gangsters are untouchable. I think I remember a number were not. And those that are not are being protected by Brohead who could have them terminated NOW.
Not to get off topic or anything, but I read an article in the H.S. this morning that talks about a convicted armed robber who was sentenced to 40 years in prison, for a robbery that netted $143 where nobody was injured. The State of N.C. overturned his sentence and Nifong objected. He enlisted the Aid of A.g. Cooper, and Cooper was able to convince the State Supreme Court to stay the order Apparently all this happened after the dismissal of the Duke charges). Does this really sound like an A.G. that just Called Nifong a rogue prosecutor. Not to imply anything, but something really smells fishy here....does anybody else agree, or does anybody else have more info?
ReplyDeleteTo 8:47
ReplyDeleteDrop it love to. As soon as the victims have been fully compensated and the flaws that were exposed in academia, the media and the judicial system have been fixed.
Compare those letters to this one in the NO:
ReplyDelete"Open your eyes
That Reade Seligmann could be shocked to discover a "tragic world of injustice" shows just how out of touch he and his teammates have been.
The "world of injustice" is evident to anyone who cares to notice.
In fact, their own university is home to the N.C. Center on Actual Innocence, a project affiliated with top-tier law schools to investigate wrongful convictions. When a series of defendants in high-profile cases were found to have been wrongly convicted, the state legislature passed, to considerable publicity, a bill creating the N.C. Innocence Inquiry Commission. Exonerated individuals regularly talk about their experiences to audiences in and around Durham.
These three young men don't see that world because legal miscarriages don't often affect people like them: white and affluent. Rather, a disproportionate number of individuals sitting on death row for crimes they didn't commit are African-American or Latino, and low-income.
The legal system is flawed, Collin Finnerty said. Pursuing further litigation, as the players' attorneys suggested they might, won't fix things. These families have funded a high-ticket defense team for more than a year. The right thing to do now is work to reform the system for those who might not be privileged, but are just as innocent."
Barbara Friedman
Assistant Professor, UNC School of Journalism and Mass Communication
Chapel Hill
NewsObserver Letter
The UNC professor who wrote that letter clearly belongs to the same group as the Group of 88; people who don't have a grip on reality, who have their head in the sand, and who need to work at a place where they can be fired if they don't contribute to the greater good of the enterprise.
ReplyDeleteAsst. Prof. Friedman,
ReplyDeleteI believe you may have missed the point, but I believe that all threee of the "accused" have come forth and stated, that they were fortunate that they (or thier families) had the means to provide an effective defense against false accusations. They are fully aware that ther are many people who haven't the means to defend against such actions by a flawed system. They have all expressed a desire to work to change this system so that "NOBODY" Will ever face this situation again.
Further, they wish to affect this change prior to the conviction of an innocent defendant. They have expressed a desire to bring about this change for under-priveleged people as well....without the need for conviction before somebody acts.
The University you site as the home for this "innocence project", not only waits until the innocent have been "proven"guilty, but offered these three players no support or assistance while they faced thier injustices. In fact, no other department in the University offered this support as well.
I think I have correctly identified the meaning of your statements to define that injustice can only be defined if its victim is a minority. For the record...I live within a couple of blocks where the "alleged attack" took place, and in this area, white males are a definite minority.
Thanks for expaining why you are still an "ASST." Prof.
Professor Friedman is surprised that a sophomore in college doesn't know the way of the world, and I must admit I am surprised that she is surprised. Nevertheless, she brings up an important point. Since flaws in the legal system seem to hurt minorities disproportionately, why were the people at the NCCU town hall meeting so happy that Nifong would proceed with the case without DNA evidence? A lot of the people let off by the Innocence project are African American, and they were charged in what Nifong euphemistically called the old fashioned way. I would think people would prefer that newfangled DNA stuff.
ReplyDeleteFirst, let me respectfully suggest that we ignore posters like 8:47 who are probably typing on computers in the Allen building. The only way these cretins can get attention is to publish tripe like this.
ReplyDeleteThese letters are great and I wholly agree with them. But two letters published this morning in USA Today are more to the point: brodhead and his sycophants need to depart. It is too late for apologies (which they wont do anyway because it would be an admission that they were wrong and would just facilitate the law suits that are coming).
Firing the coach alone is sufficient cause to scuttle this stumblebum.
Trinity60
Tell you what-I am seventy - done and saw a lot of living- I am as shocked as Reade at this injustice - not that Nifong tried to pull a fast one, but that the people who could have stopped him, let him slide for ten months. I actually believed he would be taken care of by the Judges. I still believe in the Constituation but recognize it takes constant viligance. ThankGd for KC and the boog hooligans.
ReplyDelete11:31,
ReplyDeleteWhere are you getting this info? First I've heard about it.
OK, now can we Duke alums bask in the pleasure of Brodhead getting fired? Not yet? OK, I'll wait: it's bound to happen...
ReplyDeleteTyler Hissey, 11:14 said..
ReplyDeleteIt is still amazing to me that not one member of the Group of 88 has not apologized for their rush to judgment.
In my mind, the Group of 88 are the biggest villians in this case. The funny thing is that early on one of the posters here knew the players were innocent because with 40+ young men at the party if something had happened, at least one of them would have had a conscience, and come forwared. I agree 100%.
Yet... not one of the 88 has had the cahones to admit a mistake, and apologize to these young men? What is wrong with these people?
Thanks, KC, for posting these letters. Perhaps their publication in The Wall Street Journal will increase the odds that some Duke trustees and big donors will read them and start asking some questions. Hope springs eternal....
ReplyDeleteIn the Bizzaro world of Academia, one of the proposals being considered to address the problems that this affair brought to light, is a mandatory class taught largely by members of the G88.
ReplyDeleteBella,
ReplyDeleteThis article appeared in the Durham Herald Sun April 17.
Gary Packwood
ReplyDeleteAcademia is too full of itself to ever agree to such a plan. Many Universities already spend countless hours and $$ developing strategic plans that never come to fruition(but they sure look good on paper and that's what stakeholders like to see!).
Your plan would best be served beginning in the earlier years of education where children receive 12 yrs of liberal indoctrination. Perhaps when children reach the Universities they could receive some type of brainwash debriefing course!
How have educators been so easily indoctrinated themselves? They've lost their ability to think. Teachers and Professors (ok, not all, but the majority)have a cookie cutter mentality that is fed by the MSM. These are the people we hand our children's moldable minds over to beginning at the ripe age of 4 or 5? Had I only been wiser sooner, I wouldn't have allowed my attention to be diverted to reading the ingredients on cereal boxes instead of getting to know who was teaching my children.
Maybe if students just didn't sign up for courses taught by the group of 88 in large enough numbers, the school would have to re-consider their economic value. In the end, the people paying for their salary could make a statement without much fuss. There are probably plenty of other classes available to meet requirements to graduate. No apology or rational discussion will ever come from any of them. If you take their class, you better say and write what they want to hear to pass.
ReplyDelete10:26 In keeping with the great anecdote about never forgetting, I again, suggest the AAAs building be renamed after the three young men.
ReplyDeleteThe 88 and others like them should walk under a transom with the boys name prominently displayed every day they are on campus. It should even be back-lit so it is visible 24-7.
8:47 - quite amusing.
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me of a thief caught with stolen goods:
"The guy has his stuff back, so how about letting me go?"
Still, it IS time to move on, but on to the accountability, apology, restitution, and repeat prevention phases.
Unfortunately for Nifong and the Duke 88, and despite the best efforts of the mainstream media, people are most assuredly still paying attention. And I will consider it an important personal duty to make sure that people never forget this gross miscarriage of justice and the role that the Duke 88 played in it.
ReplyDeleteprofessor friedman:
ReplyDeleteyour idea of INJUSTICE is better referred to any country in AFRICA, the MIDDLE EAST and NOW mexico to brazil, cuba to venezuela
youre an obnoxious socialist and a defender of systems that DONT have a clue about protecting anyones rights
you say these students didnt understand FEELINGS ABOUT MINORITY CRIMES AND PUNISHMENT ?
thats because they are well educated and surrounded by minorities who study to get ahead..remember its socialists like you WHO educate the minorities and what a wonderful JOB youve done at turning them into criminals and RAP artists who are glorifed for commiting crimes and CALLING women HO's...
Instead of understanding that accepting the american heritage you promote CHANGING the culture to a point where THERE is NO culture except respecting cultures that are as backward as your ideas are...
those of us whop have READ law and BRIEFED cases understand the magnificance of the american CODE PLEADING and common law...you on the other hand EXCUSE conduct on a group basis which is why NO PROGRESS has ever been made in the socialist countries you would claim are better MODELS for this NATION
i wish you would leave this country and immigrate to CUBA where you will be far more at home with your corrupted views about OUTCOMES...
america tolerates your unbalanced views because QUITE FRANKLY were WEALTHY and you arent
i have news for you...im glad you are poor in spirit, unhappy, miserable and nasty...
"These three young men don't see that world because legal miscarriages don't often affect people like them: white and affluent."
ReplyDeleteThese two are always conflated. Lets take them one at a time.
White:
Being white worked against the Duke 3. They would never have been charged, and the press, G88, etc. wouldn't have been so quick to condemn - and in some cases, still comdemn - them had they not been white.
Affluent:
This helped them because it allowed them to hire lawyers who were much more skilled - and ethical - than Nifong. Their affluence added to their attractiveness as a target, but to a lesser extent than their whiteness did, and when weighed against the lawyering it was able to provide, their affluence was a net advantage.
So there it is: Being white hurt them, and being well off helped them.
Breaking it down even further.
ReplyDeleteIf they had been poor and black, they would never have been charged in the first place. So being white and rich wasn't as good as being poor and black.
The order of advantage in the legal system, at least in Durham and many other urban areas, is as follows;
Rich and black
Poor and black
Rich and white
Poor and white
The Duke Hoax illustrates this perfectly.
Precious commited a crime and the Duke three didn't. But she was one rung avove them in the advantage order, and, consequentially, they were charged and she wasn't.
If the Duke3 had been anything and black, they would not have been charged. If they had been poor as well as white, they would have gone to trial and may have been framed.
The original 8:47 here.
ReplyDeleteThe three have their innocence.
Nifong is tarnished goods, and his career is over.
The group of 88 will probably never, ever apologize.
The AG will not bring down the hammer on the person who made the claim of rape.
Yes, there are loose ends to be tied up, but those with the power to tie them up are extremely motivated, and there is no doubt that those ends will be tied up.
The agitating of those here then serves little purpose. Better to be silent observers and raise hackles again if it seems that the motivation of those in power starts to wane.