Officer Ben Himan was one of the key players in Mike Nifong’s ethics hearing; his deposition makes for fascinating reading, and covers considerable territory beyond what we heard in court.
The highlights:
The Early Investigation
Asked to describe how the captains behaved on the evening of March 16, Himan was blunt: “Anything that I asked, they did.”
Also, it was apparent to anyone who looked that Kim Pittman Roberts’ March 22 statement was irreconcilable with whatever version of events Crystal Mangum happened to be offering.
Doug Brocker: Even at that point on the 22nd of March, it was fairly obvious to you that either Ms. Mangum or Ms. Pittman wasn’t telling the truth about some of the events that had happened.
Himan: Yes.
That said, it’s clear that--at least early on--Himan was disinclined to believe Roberts. (He suggested that she was minimizing what happened to Mangum as a way of avoiding becoming a witness, and therefore having her own parole violation discovered.) The decision not to rely on a witness whose March 22 statement was largely accurate was a highly unfortunate missed opportunity.
Sgt. Shelton
Himan said that Sgt. John Shelton—the officer who first encountered Mangum, and who correctly realized that she was lying—gave him, not Gottlieb or Nifong, a copy of his report, handwritten, in a sealed envelope marked “confidential.” Himan also confirmed that, at Duke Hospital, Shelton told people he thought Mangum was lying.
That said, Himan disagreed with Shelton’s performance, arguing that he failed to show Mangum sufficient “empathy” and that he was overly “confrontational.”
The deposition also notes Shelton’s role in a heretofore unexplained aspect of the case. In May, a Duke report seemingly geared toward attacking the lacrosse players unintentionally aided them by revealing that Duke Police Officer Christopher Day overheard a DPD officer say that Mangum claimed to have been raped by 20 men.
Day’s report was downplayed at the time, however, including by Duke Police. According to the N&O,
Aaron Graves, associate vice president for campus safety and security, said the report was a preliminary account for informational purposes only. Duke police were not directly involved in the investigation into allegations by an escort service dancer that she was raped by three men at a Duke lacrosse party.
Duke officials said the officer did nothing wrong, but Graves added, “We clearly could have done a better job.”
It turns out that Day’s version of events was correct all along, raising questions about why Duke officials didn’t squarely stand behind their officer: he overheard Shelton telling a superior that Mangum at one point claimed 20 men raped her.
Nifong’s Role
Gottlieb informed Himan on March 24, 2006 that everything in the investigation would need to be funneled through Nifong.
The first meeting between the three occurred on March 27. Nifong has claimed the session was confined to a discussion of the McFadyen e-mail, but Himan recalled that Nifong asked for Mangum’s statement (which, of course, at that point didn’t exist), Kim Roberts’ statement, and the captains’ statements. Also, Himan commented that Nifong himself “brought up the discrepancies” in Mangum’s version of events, such as the differing statements on the number of “attackers”—only, in the ex-DA’s case, to try to explain them away.
Himan also reported that Nifong was aware of discrepancies from the police reports even before their initial meeting. He suspected that some of this information had come from Nifong’s then-assistant, Sheila Eason (who Jim Hardin just rehired), whose husband worked for the Duke Police.
In addition to revealing Nifong’s March 27 comment—“You know, we’re fucked”—Himan said that a few days later, Nifong admitted that prosecuting this case would be “very hard.”
Himan, for his part, told Nifong that Mangum appeared to be in pain at the March 16 interview and it looked as if she was telling the truth. Himan eventually would change his mind on this point; Nifong never did.
The DNA
Confirming Dr. Brian Meehan’s deposition—and casting further doubt on Nifong’s veracity—the Himan deposition recounted how Nifong actively questioned Dr. Meehan about the substance of Meehan’s DNA tests.
Confirming the recollections of Jackie Brown, Himan noted that he could “tell Mr. Nifong wasn’t in the best mood” in the return trip from Burlington on April 10—the day the ex-DA learned of the results showing DNA from multiple unidentified males.
Himan said he wasn’t sure if, at the May 12 meeting, they went over Meehan’s report “line by line,” but Meehan clearly went over each specific item in the report with Nifong—which would, again, suggest that Nifong perjured himself when he claimed to have never read the report.
Himan—like Gottlieb—believed Meehan’s May 12 report was the final report.
The Gottlieb Role
With extraordinary understatement, Himan conceded that Gottlieb’s notes of the March 16 Mangum descriptions differed from his “a little bit.” In fact, Himan’s notes bore no resemblance to Gottlieb’s—in all likelihood because Gottlieb’s were produced nearly four months later, after indictments, and seemed designed to match the three accused players.
Calling into question the claim of Gottlieb and Nifong that Himan was running things and therefore responsible for any shortcomings in the investigation, Himan said that before April 10, he never spoke to Nifong about the DNA test results or the search for an alternative lab to do testing. These tasks, he reported, were handed by Gottlieb and Officer Michele Soucie.
Himan also noted that Gottlieb and Soucie, not he, initially briefed Nifong on the results of the procedurally flawed April 4 lineup.
In other words, on the two critical items of the investigation—Meehan’s DNA lab and the April 4 lineup—Gottlieb, not Himan, was the DPD’s point person with Nifong.
That fact alone makes it a little unsettling to see Himan represented by the same attorney who is representing Gottlieb.
The UNC Medical Report
Mangum traveled to UNC Hospital on March 15—and told a very different story than she did before or than she would later. She was “drunk and felt no pain.” During the “attack,” the “assailants” hit her in the face, causing her to fall backwards and hit her head on the sink.
Himan—and even Gottlieb—understood that this version of events contradicted any of the stories Mangum had told them, so Gottlieb asked her about it. Mangum’s response? “Crystal said she doesn’t recall ever making those statements to them.” Amazingly, both the DPD and Nifong appear to have taken Mangum at her word on this point.
The UNC medical reports also referenced Mangum’s psychological history. Himan, however, could not recall Nifong ever discussing Mangum’s mental health before seeking indictments.
A final item on this issue: even Himan and Gottlieb recognized that the UNC report was potentially very harmful to their case. Yet in Duff Wilson’s August 25 New York Times magnum opus, Wilson portrayed the UNC medical report as favorable to Nifong.
The Indictments
Again illustrating who was making the key decisions, Himan heard of the decision to seek indictments against Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty from Gottlieb—who had been told this by Nifong.
Himan’s response, as he would later testify, “With what?”
According to the deposition, both Gottlieb and Himan protested the decision to indict Seligmann; Nifong overruled them.
Himan never heard directly from Nifong why it was so important to move forward with indictments at the April 17 grand jury session; indirectly, he heard that Nifong preposterously asserted that school would soon be out, and the players would be leaving the state.
The “Re-Interviewer”
According to Himan, Linwood Wilson said that Nifong had tasked him with “re-interviewing” every witness in the case. And, indeed, Wilson appears to have “re-interviewed” virtually everyone involved, including police officers.
Asked about Wilson’s role, Himan noted, “To begin with, to be honest, I didn’t understand why Linwood was coming in.” After May 8, he said, “my main point was Linwood Wilson. I mean, he got his direction from Mr. Nifong.”
Asked about the genesis of Wilson’s December 21 interview with Mangum, Himan replied diplomatically, “He gave me an explanation that he wasn’t going over there for an interview.” Himan, however, had accompanied Wilson in all previous interviews with Mangum. When Himan read Wilson’s report, he said, “It didn’t make any sense, she changed her story completely.”
Nifong dismissed the rape charges at 11.37am, on December 22. He called Himan to relay the news sometime between 11.15am and 11.30am that morning.
At the January 10, 2007 “re-interview” with SANE nurse Tara Levicy, Wilson, not Himan, raised the question of Mangum’s possible condom use—after the Bar had charged Nifong with fraud and misrepresentation for his springtime musings about possible condom use.
Levicy, of course, obliged, remembering ten months after the fact that, despite her contemporaneous notes, Mangum actually was uncertain about whether her “attackers” had used condoms.
The January 11, 2007 Nifong-Mangum Meeting
Himan picked up Mangum to bring her to the DA’s office on January 11—for, he assumed, a follow-up interview in which he, Gottlieb, and Linwood Wilson would explore with her the contradictions in her December 21 version of events.
Instead, she was brought into Nifong’s office for a lengthy period—Himan guessed around 90 minutes. Nifong told her that he was recusing himself,* but stressed the tough path ahead. The clear implication: Nifong wanted Mangum to drop the case, so he wouldn’t have to turn it over to the attorney general’s office.
There had been rumors about Nifong’s recusal floating in the weeks before the ex-DA handed the case over, “and I remember Mr. Nifong saying he wasn’t going to let someone take it away from him.”
When he changed his mind, Nifong said he did so because “the media had already thought badly of him, and he didn’t want the jury in Crystal’s case . . . to judge Crystal by Mr. Nifong’s actions.”
Himan’s Conclusions
As to the defense, Himan noted, “It was unbelievable how much stuff they actually turned over to the Attorney General’s office”—pictures, documents, alibis, receipts. Nifong, Himan conceded in response to a question from Doug Brocker, could have had access to all this information.
Asked what he believed by the end of the investigation, Himan responded,
I came to the conclusion that she had made up—that she was not telling the truth about anything. That she was improvising everything that she has said. That everything she was contradicted with, she would make up improvisation of what actually happened—of why this happened, why this didn’t happen.
By the end of the case, Mangum was accusing Himan of being paid off by Duke, as part of her general claim that Duke—the same institution whose activist faculty had portrayed the players as racists and likely rapists and whose president had said “if they didn’t do it, whatever they did was bad enough”—had manipulated the evidence to ensure the players’ innocence.
Of all the stories that Crystal Mangum told, this one might have been the strangest.
*--corrected
77 comments:
Crystal Mangum isn't crazy. She is suffering from the same condition afflicting most criminals. She should be sent to prison for what she did. Roy Cooper never should have let her skate.
If Mangum is really insane, then why is she allowed to raise children?
So Hinman came to the conclusion that "that she was not telling the truth about anything. " ?? And, pray tell, when was that? Is the guy slow, or just stupid?
I wonder if we will ever see anybody step in and try to clean up the Durham PD. This is just crazy. The whole justice system is in need of cleaning and repair
KC,
Terrific post.
I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but you should really be a journalist.
Re Nifong pushing for an indictment on April 17: would the grand jury have met again after April 17 and before the primary?
Once more, great work.
John in Carolina
I'm seeing this same thing in other professionals. I'm a pastor and I've had a husband and wife recently melt down in my parish. She left him and went into a shelter. I have asked her over 1 1/2 years of counseling if her husband had ever hit her or threatened her. She has always said no. But in the last month she went into the shelter claiming she felt threatened because he had pissed in her bath oils. He has not seen his kids in two months and when his counselor called me to discuss the case he indicated that he believed the wife's story. I don't and I told him so. It didn't make one bit of difference. I told the husbnd to fire the counselor because he was already prejudiced against him. It is absolutely amazing to me that the counselors and social workers have all lined up against the guy without a trial of facts. It is further amazing to me that the counselors and social workers are not only drawing these conclusions, but they may well be asked to testify to the court as expert witnesses. Something has gone very wrong with our legal and mental health systems.
JLS says...,
John in Carolina
I believe the grand jury was meeting weekly. But in answer to your question, the grand jury did in fact meet in May a week before the primary to pander for the black vote with the third indictment, that of David Evans.
KC said...
...By the end of the case, Mangum was accusing Himan of being paid off by Duke, as part of her general claim that Duke—the same institution whose activist faculty had portrayed the players as racists and likely rapists and whose president had said “if they didn’t do it, whatever they did was bad enough”—had manipulated the evidence to ensure the players’ innocence.
...Of all the stories that Crystal Mangum told, this one might have been the strangest.
::
By the end of the case, perhaps Mangum had finally figured out, with the help of a boat load of Duke attorneys and investigators, that she was not going to get any big bucks out of Duke no matter how helpful their activist faculty had been to move her cause forward.
Mike and Cy Nifong must have wondered if they were going to inherit Mangum and her children since Duke, Colin, Dave a Reade had already said Thanks but ...No Thanks.
Who gets to inherit the wind ...as it were?
The activist faculty?
::
GP
JLS says...
Slowly these depositions are slowly fleshing out the picture of how this happened.
I now see among the key factors:
1. Old pro hooker Mangum after crying rape is lucky enough to be examined by a rookie she easily snookered. [Personally I am skeptical of any SANE. I know some around here want to claim they are generally unbiased collectors of evidence. I doubt it. Levicy was a rookie, but I suspect not that different than most SANEs biased towards believing any claim of sexual crimes at least by a female.]
2. Old pro hooker Mangum also draws a rookie investigator in Himan. He took is taken in by Mangum.
3. The DA the major criminal in this and another rookie as DA, needs this case or at least indictments to win his first primary.
4. Himan's supervisior Gottlieb has a history of bias against Duke student so he too is biased in favor of accepting this allegtion without probing.
This is a pretty unlikely series of draws, rookie SANE, rookie investigator, rookie DA with a self interest in believing the hoax and an old detective who is biased against the accused group.
Mangum is a seasoned hustler who was hoping to make some quick money. She even hustled the king of pond scum - Reverend Jesse "Shakedown" Jackson. I'm sure she's complaining to her other whore friends about how unfair it is that those white boys got paid and she didn't. Regrets? She and the G88 faculty are stunted conscience people who hate white men. Their only regret is that things didn't work out the way they hoped. They'll lay low for awhile, sniffing the wind for additional opportunities.
ARookie SANE is meaningless - they do a checklist and collect materials for the rape kit. Usually it is done by an RN and MD - SANE is a nothing deal and a 84 hour certification course take at the YWCA, The continual persecution of this nurse by non medical people supporting the rants of the Ks is stupid and shows a lack of understanding of what goes on in an ED. I think the SANE gig is unnecessary and most hospitals don't have an on call part time nurse for this job and do it the old fashion way. I doublt these nurses have an agenda. I have great respect for you KC, but give this up - I think Kingsbury was mistaken in his 5 to 9 meeting of Nifong and this nurse.
Sorry, 1:50, but Levicy's comments were what kept the case going in the media spring of 2006. Over and over it was reported that the Duke hospital nurse who examined the "victim" saw evidence consistent with sexual assault. If it wasn't for that, the entire case might have fallen apart. As it was, it multiplied into a monster.
On Himan finally realizing Mangum was lying_ at least he finally got it! There are people all over the landscape that are still spouting the "something happened" BS- Nifong for one, and a bunch of lefty professors (not just at Duke) for another.
(1) KC Writes: "Nifong told her that he was recusing herself, but stressed the tough path ahead."
That's a reasonable Freudian slip, but I suspect you meant to write, "himself."
(2) JWM said...
"KC,
Terrific post.
I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but you should really be a journalist."
No offense, JWM, but that is tantamount to asking Yo-Yo Ma to join the high school orchestra in Left Overshoe, North Dakota.
KC is thorough, accurate and honest --- those traits differ from about 95% of American journalists, an occupation Americans rate lower than used car sales persons.
Like some others here, I've chuckled when reading KC's posts expressing his incredulity in the poor reporting in the New York Times and the AP about Duke case --- a subject KC knows perhaps better than anyone on earth.
Those of us who have first hand knowledge of subjects such as the Bush administration and the US military have complained for many years about the incredible bias and extraordinarily poor reporting in both the New York Times and the Associated Press.
Finally, when KC reads their version of a subject with which he's quite knowledgable, he is amazed at what he reads.
It's a strange world.
One Spook
Sorry 2"03 It took five million dollars, nine defense attorneys, DIW and thousands of bloggers to stop the Nifong train - thirteen months later. To say that one staff nurse at DUMC perpetrated this hoax and/or could have stopped Nifong is delusional. The facts do not support that opinion.
it is not true that the Medical report was gone over and over in the media. What they had was 70 Nifong interviews (including the choke) in living color to support the accussation.
I do remember seeing (I think in Liestoppers) a copy of the police report in which Crystal Meth claimed to have been raped by 20 men.
Re Tara Levicy, didn't she testify at Knifong's hearing that she had talked to Gottlieb about the exam only once within a one year span?
AP's Aaron Beard has been fairly factual in his reporting of this case.
Mangum does not have a rosy future...instead of prison, she'll be fished out of a ditch some day with a slit throat.
Nifong...he and O.J. should form a support group for pariahs.
The G88...they probably won't see any professional reprisals (except perhaps for Kim Curtis), but they did not advance their agenda...quite the opposite. As Thavolia Glymph said, "We're moving backwards." How right you were, sista.
Reade, Dave, and Collin...martyrs, persecuted by the moloch of political correctness. Modern-day Scottsboro Boys, with the shroud of historical sympathy that accrues.
Predatory black prostitute...unethical Democratic DA...Stalinist faculty...innocent, railroaded, upper-middle-class, white, male, lacrosse players.
That meta-narrative just stings the you-know-who...no wonder they're so defensive and churlish.
They know how they look.
And so does the rest of America.
Good guys 1, PC Avengers 0.
Game, set, match.
Yes did testify to the two meeeting and two phone calls - eleven months apart. None of the lawyers at the hearing challanged that statement or suggested she committed perjury.
Does no other poster remember Nifong's statements and appearance in the spring of 2006 vilifying these guys and telling every media outlet they did the deed? Does no one remember "My reading of the ED nurse's report indicates a rape occurred? When not only was the report not printed, he admitted he never read it.
The N$O reporting of the petite, soft spoken, student and mother, plus Ruthie's "We Know" essai inflammed the issue with NIfong's 70 TV appearance - not a 37K staff nurse at DUMC. Get real/
@ 2:53 a.m.
So when is your "wife" going to publish her critique of KC's reporting of the SANE nurse/procedures in this case.
Its been at least 3 months since you promised a critique was forthcoming.
I am not Dk or his wife - THe critique was to be on the Ks reporting of the SANE nurse/ proceedurde. AMAC knows all about that - not me.
Kethra, on LS, today, said KC has a copy of the "deposition" Levicy did with defense lawyer Kingsbury.
Is it true KC?
My ex-wife had a history of dislocating her shoulders. One night, while tossing in her sleep, she had a dislocation. I fixed it for her (by her own direction), then took her to the emergency room.
The nurse on staff was convinced it was domestic violence on my part. Soon after the incident my ex was questioning my version of events (that it was caused by her tossing in sleep) !!
True Story.
PS, absolutely no evidence to suggest that I had committed, or would commit, domestic violence against my ex. On the contrary, she had assaulted me prior to our separation.
No offense but....jeez. You sound like a guy without a story.
JLS 1:08 am:
Helluva summary (and a really good set of observations:)
"rookie...;rookie...:rookie...;old and biased."
Now the MOVIE version of it will include all those things, but it'll make CGM virginal,
and portray her as if she's really some kind of altruistic evangelical, bent on saving
the boys from a rogue prosecutor and his henchmen.
Michael Moore will direct.
2:18
The reports show
1) That Levicy doesn't understand DNA.
2) That Levicy changed her story to fit CGM's.
3) That Levicy should never have interviewed with the DPD; that the doctor should have been the interviewee.
4) That Nifong claimed Levicy "guided" (Nifong's words)
the doctor on how to perform the
exam.
1 and 2 are damning. Go away, Tara's Troll!
Levicy's comment - on the DPD report- was that a rape could have occured, with-or-without DNA:
Nurse Tara Levicy stated:
"I wasn't surprised when no DNA was found because rape is not about passion or ejaculation but about power."
Understanding that Ms. levicy is no rocket scientist, (nor brain surgeon,)
she should surely have been aware that DNA from epithelium would have been evidenced had there been anal rape.
At minimum, there would have been rectal bleeding, as there almost always is
(according to AIDS reports) with rectal intercourse - (even in the "voluntary" kind.)
It would be easy to rewrite her quote to say:
"My SANE exam report isn't about rape, because rape isn't a crime
of passion or ejaculation: my report is about expressing my own personal power and agenda."
Levicy also stated, according to the report on Liestoppers:
"That she did a 'Head to Toe' exam of Ms. Mangum and as she was feeling around Ms. Mangum
tenderness was noted in her report. Ms. Levicy stated that she observed pain..."
(my note: how do you "observe pain?" One only
observes expressions of pain, and cannot feel others pain,
not unless they're an Empath from an early episode of Star Trek.)
"...from Ms. Mangum when the speculum was inserted in her vagina..."
It would be easy to conclude that Ms. Levicy, in doing a "Head-to Toe" exam,
was the one using the speculum.
We don't know who used the speculum:
if it was Tara, was she trained to use it?
If not, the doctor performed that specific part of the exam?
This is the crux of the matter:
The report then states that it was the Dr. Manley
who made the note about
"diffuse edema of the vaginal walls," but...
"...therefore it was not a forensic finding since it was not from the SANE Nurse."
In other words, forget the doctor's diagnosis: she's not qualified;
only Nurse Tara is qualified to make the diagnosis of rape.
Levicy should be profoundly grateful
that this did not get to trial,
as her testimony would have been
ripped to shreds. Justifiably so:
Forensic findings from Dr. Manley - (according to this report) -
would be excluded as evidence.
Therrefore, those who claim that
Nurse Tara was only acting under the supervision of the physician
are deluded: Nurse Tara was, for all intents and purposes, in
charge at the scene - (as Nifong suggested) - and as the interviews
with Levicy - (and not Dr. Manly) - also suggest.
And finally, Nurse Tara was Certified at that point in time, but Nurse Tara didn't even know she had been sent
the credentials; according to her trolls, they came in the mail right after the exam.
Which means that she knowingly performed as a SANE Nurse while
not knowing if she had yet received her credentials.
That's called what?
It doesn't make any sense that Himan, a rookie investigator would be put in charge of such an important case.
Gottlieb probably knew from the very beginning the case was a hoax and decided to use Himan as a fall guy.
If Himan reads this blog, I would recommend he get himself his own lawyer.
Tell me, Tara's Trolls:
did Nurse Tara indicate if CGM
had any "muscle spasms?"
"According to the deposition,
Gottlieb and Himan protested the decision to indict Seligmann; Nifong overruled them."
Reminds a person of the movie "Holes,"
near the end of the movie when papers are being demanded for a
missing teenager named Zero (Khleo Thomas.)
When "Mr. Sir" Sevillo (Jon Voight)asks Warden Walker (Sigourney Weaver)
what they should do about the missing records, she says to him:
"You'll do as I say."
Dr. Pedanski (Tim Blake Nelson)
then asks Mr. Sir:
"What did she SAY?"
Mr. Sir says:
"You'll do as I say."
Sounds like the way it might've gone down with Himan, Goatcheese and No-Fang.
The Himan deposition contains more evidence of incompetent and dishonest police work at the DPD.
All the more reason why Hodge should not get the Chief's position. He's part of the problem, not the solution.
I think shortly we'll see either Gottlieb or Himan getting another attorney. No lawyer I know would represent two defendants whose stories are contradictory. As an aside: is it possible that Linwood Wilson is Duff Wilson's evil twin? Or should Duff be the evil one??
Mangum and the Duke Group88 . . . it's not about the truth . . . it's about power . . . isn't it about power and if not power what? You can't make this stuff up . . . can you? Just point a finger at someone and say you are powerless. None of these people seem to have any integrity. They are all the "something must have happened" crowd gone wild. With their supposed PhD's and position of place these people act like the most ignorant, malicious gossips on the street of some third world country. North Carolina mountain people or the mill villages of old had more integrity and common sense . . . the people Duke has no use to attend their "prestige" school. God help us.
12:57 AM
Could you expect the harpies of Duke88 to give disinterested judgement based on the facts of anything? I don't think so, and I agree with you in your understanding of the situation. The dogma of these people has begun to impact on this culture's ability to interface with reality. It certainly affected Duke's ability to grasp what its real responsibility was to members of its own community and to abide by a rule of law and not a group or mob mentality that banged its pots in the streets of Durham.
Tara Levicy's comment ". . . rape is not about passion or ejaculation but about power" expresses the power of language to transfer thought to another topic. DNA does't care about rape or power or even ejaculation. It exists independently of all of these. I do not understand why a nurse, even a nurse in training, would not know that an look for the empicial "truth" that DNA provides even with the possible use of a condom. Like Tina Turner told us, "What's love got to do with it . . ."
To anon 1:50 -- Sane nurses are trained with the same propaganda you see in the women's studies departments. They may be fine people but their coursework gives them "facts" that push an ideology that portrays women as victims who don't lie about rape and that rape is all about power and control.
Anon 3:47am's comment references a rebuttal to KC Johnson's posts on SANE trainee/nurse Tara Levicy that another SANE nurse was intending to offer.
In the end, "Mrs. DK" did not post that essay. Instead, D.K. contributed to a LieStoppers thread that turned very acrimonious. It is possible to read through that contentious thread and parse Mrs. DK's thoughts. In my opinion, as presented, they offer little in the way of exoneration for Tara Levicy's conduct in how she wrote up the exam of 3/14/06 and how she communicated the exam's findings to the DPD and the DA's office over the following year.
That LieStoppers thread is here.
Kilgore:
Correct.
And DNA only counts if it fits the ideology.
Where's Galileo and Copernicus when you need them most?
To Tara and her Troll Troop: DNA is contained in every cell in the human body, not just in ejaculate. Assuming an assault actually took place in that tiny bathroom, the "victim" would have traces of DNA from anyone who touched, hit, punched, elbowed, licked,bit, or in any way had skin-to-skin contact. Now, Tara claims to be an RN who is certified as a SANE; whatinhell do they teach these people for God's sake?? Tara's right about one thing, though. It IS about power. The power of the politically correct group-thinkers to control our culture. I've had about enough of the Tara's and the Waheenas and the Grants, and the trolls who are so busy here today.
Tara took her course online--and had a 3 year old do her work for her.
As to the DNA, how can you possibly believe that DNA from the 3 Duke "rapists" could possibly be left behind if they were using condoms? After all, wasn't is surmised that the unidentified DNA found IN and ON CGM could have come from the seats of the police car, taxi, and other various and sundry seats in which she plopped her body? Now who in their right mind would believe that DNA from the 3 (or 20 or whatever the number du jour is) could be picked up off seats through clothing (unless CGM subscribes to dress habits the like of Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and Paris Hilton) but not through DIRECT bodily contact. After all, she was "attacked" in all ways by several men for nearly a half hour. She must have really "waddled" all over those seats. Guess the drivers of those cars got an eye full while she was collecting "evidence"!
AF
I wasn't surprised when no DNA was found... - Nurse Levicy
So Levicy was following the case as it unfolded and her memory adapted to the facts as they became known, culminating in her BS session in Wilson and Himan this past January.
KC wrote on 5/4/07:
On January 10, 2007, Levicy managed to remember a variety of critical details about what Crystal Mangum allegedly told her on March 14, 2006, details that hadn’t appeared in the SANE nurse’s report. All these details bolstered the beleaguered position of D.A. Mike Nifong.
To vegas/old lady and all the other Tara-defending trolls: did you miss the post where KC wrote that Tara's own nursing idol had been hired by the defense, and was extremely critical of Tara's professional behavior? It isn't just the "K" nurses who think Tara is an unethical and incompetent fool. But since trolls like you are obviously as dumb as Tara, you're never going to see the light. "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
One the best (or worst) aspects of the Himan deposition- is that fact that he had to drive CGM around like her servant/chauffeur. She wouldn't return his calls and disappear after she'd tell Himan she would be somewhere at a specific time. He might spend up to 4 hours driving around NC to find her (after they had established a place and time to met). Great use of police time/taxes.
She even pulled (when I get in trouble) i fake pass out bit with Himan.
Anonymous 2: 18 said...
...Sorry 2"03 It took five million dollars, nine defense attorneys, DIW and thousands of bloggers to stop the Nifong train - thirteen months later. To say that one staff nurse at DUMC perpetrated this hoax and/or could have stopped Nifong is delusional. The facts do not support that opinion.
::
I agree with your comment as written however, one SANE nurse working in tandem with the G88 (and their students) along with one or two people at the DPD could and probably did...move the hoax along.
::
GP
JLS says....,
1. Anyone who thinks had Levicy said something different than she did, this case would have gone away earlier does not have the slightest understanding of this case. This case was about votes not rape.
2. What amazes me concerning press coverage is that someone who sees via this case how bad the NYC Times is about this continue treat that media outlet and others like it like they are credible on the War on Terror, politics, anything else.
Now, Tara claims to be an RN who is certified as a SANE; whatinhell do they teach these people for God's sake??
That DNA is a patriarchal construct invented by dead white guys to oppress women!
If Mangum is really insane, then why is she allowed to raise children?
Jul 5, 2007 12:09:00 AM
Newsflash - the whole world is populated by people like CGM. There's no way you can take away her or any other lunatic's children. There is no lifeguard at the gene pool and CGM is just another example.
This letter falls into the category of...You can't make this stuff up.
Are there really people like this person walking around out there? Run for your lives!
This is in the H-S...Durham's Weekly Reader today:
No one should be kicked over and over when they are already down. How dare the community keep kicking Mike Nifong. Nifong is a noble man in a profession that is not known for its nobleness. Where is your character? Who is your God? The entire episode reminds me of the crucifixion of Christ. What has Nifong done for you to cry, "crucify him, crucify him?" I wonder how many of the defense lawyers are trying the case for free. If they feel so strongly about the reputation of Duke University and those students, why charge for your services?
The wrong person is being punished as a result of this debacle. The Duke students who disrespected their school to the extent that they would invite a stripper to put on a raunchy, half-naked performance for a party are the ones who deserve punishment. Get a bunch of alcohol-filled, rowdy young men together and one or two of them will probably taunt and invade, with an instrument, a sassy-talking black woman.
Nifong knows the history of how black women have been violated and nothing was done about it. He planned to bring about justice without regard to race, status or school affiliation. The actions against Nifong are so harsh the universe is trembling.
The divine master will not let you get away with your unforgiving hearts. All humans make mistakes. We got to forgive and choose mercy over justice every time.
Carrie T. Smith
Durham
July 5, 2007
Unbelievable.
Debrah
JLS says...,
How this case is ultimately PERCEIVED is still very much up in the air. At the time, it was very clear that Anita Hill was lying about Justice Thomas. Opinion polls around the time confirmed that the public saw that she was lying and Justice Thomas was confirmed. But now years later after the left leaning media have acted like she was telling the truth consistently day in and day out and have treated her and her lies with great respect, public opinion polls changed.
For now I would bet that Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann are viewed sympathetically by the public. But all it will take is Nifong being treated respectfully as a law professor commentator on various tv court shows and the feminazis repeating over and over something happened and "they" got away with it etc.
The 88 gangsters and their ilk in the media are NOT about to give up. They will do everything they can over the next decade to smear Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann and mold public opinion into "something happened in that bathroom" and "those guys got away with something because of their "wealth and class." If you have a vague sense that Justice Thomas is somehow tainted, then you have fallen victim to how the vast majority of the public will fall victim to the left media when it comes to this case.
Carolyn says:
KC, you do awesome work. Thank you so much.
However, I wish to disagree with you on a point of semantics, please. You describe Himan's (and the DPD's) decision not to listen to Kim Roberts as "a highly unfortunate missed opportunity". Sorry, KC. That was not a 'missed opportunity' - it was a conscious choice. A conscious evil choice NOT to listen to the truth but instead to listen to a lie. Thank you.
Take a look at some of the comments made about Brodhead by his colleagues.
LOL!!!
Dicky_the_Wonder_Boy
Debrah
JLS says...,
BTW, I just started looking at Himan's deposition. He was not represented by the same attorney as Gottlieb. He was unrepresented. The DPD was represented by the same attorney in both the Gottlieb and Himan depositions. Himan did not have independent representation. I hope for his sake he did not make a mistake by doing that. And of course by the Nifong standard Gottlieb having independent representation while not charged with a crime indicates guilt on Gottlieb's part!
Debrah 11:05
If I were on the editorial staff of the H-S the first thing I would do is verify that there is a Carrie T. Smith who in fact wrote this letter. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is a send-up. Only I can't figure which side would write it. Debacle? got to forgive?? Something smells like mackerel to me.
Re: the H-S "Carrie T Smith" letter, I also asked myself if it was actually a satire of the pro-Nifong mentality to be found at the bottom of the barrel, among the dumbest of Durham's dumb.
I especially "liked" the direct comparison of Mike Nifong to none other than Jesus Christ!
God help this poor moron, if she's for real.
Do you mind if we wait for Burgess to testify herself" Under oath would be good. Having never made a public statement these snippets won't do at all.
Don't dismiss the fact that Crystal accused three men of raping her when she was 15 years old. The case was finally dismissed. And that Nifong knew her ENTIRE history when he was involved with a case re her uncle's murder years before the Duke rape case. Nifong knew he could depend on Crystal to play her part in his case against the Duke Lacrosse players.
Max 0 you got it all wrong - Dr Manly did the head to toe and the entire physical exam. As you are not a medical person and not experienced in "determining pain or lack there of" we will ignore your "how do you determine pain" comment. You facts are wrong and unsupported by real evidence.
TO 11:21AM and 11:47PM--
Sad to say, but that letter is Mike Nifong's Durham audience, and the H-S is on the same plane, obviously, to even allow such insanity to go to print.
If anyone still wonders why Mikey was so confident that he would be able to get away with his hoax, a look at that letter explains a lot.
And just think: People like Smith actually vote!
:>)
Debrah
JLS - You are right - it was obvious that ANita Hill was lying -just as you are right that this case was never about rape, but votes.
Gary - As the 88 did not publish their statement before March 21st, there is no reason to believe. either Levicy or the DPD knew who those dopes were = let alone enter into a conspiracy with them.
11:53
My facts are in the Nurse's report.
As far as perceiving pain?
I work in the field of pain management. Piss off.
11:53
BTW, point-by-point, illustrate where you believe that I'm wrong?
For example, the instance where you
claimed I was wrong:
The report states that Levicy did the "Head to Toe" exam.
(It's in the report.)
Read it for yourself. It's on Liestoppers. It's an official report.
If Crystal is so mentally unstable to be held legally accountable for her numerous crimes she should be put into a mental institution. Whereever she goes from here you can bet she will attempt this type of behaviour again and hurt other innocent people. She is a definite danger to society, she is a predator with no conscience. I am still outraged that no charges were filed against her. How many more people does she get to victimize?
KC
What is the bottom line on this depostion vis a vis civil suit by the players?
10:34 AM
"
DNA is a patriarchial construct" . . . that's it. That's the language of this insane . . . behavior. What is really going on is an adolesence behavior of people who can't deal with their own sexuality. It is an immature con job of a culture in the midst of a nervous breakdown . . . . the I know "studies."
Max - reread the report - better yet, reprint it here - or provide a link -
11:53
The statement that she "observed pain" is an absurdity. If the report had stated that she saw signs of flinching, indicating pain, then that would be a possibility," That could be a report that was poorly written, certainly. One doesn't "observe pain," not unless an FMRI or some other diagnostic tool is used; one can also elicit pain, and this could have been a better choice of words.
"Ms. Levicy stated that she did a Head to Toe exam and as she was feeling around Ms. Mangum tenderness was noted in her report."
Now. That is a point that could be considered: that the author of the report can't write worth a crap, and that the "she" could have been Dr. Manly.
Ex: Substitute "she" with "Dr. Manley," and the report changes
considerably.
Doesn't say that, though.
Furthermore, the report states:
"...:the writing saying 'diffuse edema
of the vaginal walls' was written in by Dr. Manley and therefore is not a forensic finding since it was not from the SANE nurse."
That indicates that the writer believed the Nurse to be the one
who'd determine the veracity of the complainant with regard to
"forensic findings."
Meaning: the Sane Nurse was in charge.
At least that's what Mike Nifong apparently thought, when he stated that Levicy "guided" Dr. Manley through the procedure.
ifong is a liar - who would believe one word this man said?
Anonymous 12:09 said...
...If Mangum is really insane, then why is she allowed to raise children?
::
This is an important question that you should ask over and over until you get an answer. I will help.
If the granola groups at Duke and in Durham were hell bent to protect the community from three lacrosse players, why weren't they hell bent to protect those children if Mangum was so crazy?
I'll bet all of these groups were working together and they all knew about Mangum and her role...yet they didn't anticipate that the boys would be found innocent.
Someone needs to be hell bent to find out whose these people are; what they know about Mangum and as you suggested, determine the health and well being of Mangum's children.
I would think that the DPD and Children's Protective Services are responsible for that type of investigation since they have the facts...and can read the newspaper.
::
GP
Gary, Well said. Panties is a thug, but society is too frightened to punish her--or dismantle propaganda studies.
Polanski
Polanski--You are so sexy! Why Debrah doesn't see this is beyond reason. You are excitingly brilliant!
At the end of the deposition, when Himan
answered that he believed that Ms Magnum had
made everything up (and was improvising on
the fly), I wish that they had finished with one
last question (two-part question :) )
"So you're saying that Sgt Shelton was right
all along? that he had correctly assessed the
situation that very first night?"
follow-up to my post directly above:
and when Himan started to answer :Yes, but ..."
cut him off and say "Yes, I know, he didn't
handle things professionally like, for example,
the way Mr Nifong did."
:)
To KC:
Thank you for this comprehensive running commentary and analysis of the Duke Rape Case. It is chilling to understand that this level of corruption exists anywhere in the US. It will be interesting to see if the City of Durham whitewashes this whole matter and proceeds to keep their Police Department in tact, or if the hard light of day shining on their dispicable behavior results in major internal change coupled with dismissals of some of the key players in this case. Personally, I would think that there are serious offences committed by Gottlieb, Himan, their supervisors and their chief. Here's hoping that Durham cleans house and that some of these folks go to jail them selves.
The secondary issue is that of the racism practices evidenced in ths sorry miscarriage of justice. Like organized labor, organizations, like the NAACP, and individuals, like Sharpton and Jackson, who utilze their positions not to help make racial divisions better, but rather to foment further unrest need to go. Until that happens, it is my guess that we will continue to see many "Durhams" going forward.
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