Comments and analysis about the Duke/Nifong case (2006-2014).
Sunday, October 28, 2007
Post-Dispatch on UPI
"Until Proven Innocent is a better read than a John Grisham novel." Read the entire review here, from Cape Girardeau (MO) County prosecuting attorney Morley Swingle.
Another excellent review! Cape Girardeau is a colorful old town on the Mississippi River just south of St. Louis ... this exposure in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch is a coup in a key market.
Please can you tell your readers how sales of UPI are doing, now that the reprinting has been done? I believe it is worthy of a place in the bestseller list. Can you goive us any reason why your publisher "sabotaged" the book by such a small initial printing?
You’re not only an author but a movie star as well! (Great job but maybe you could clean your cubby hole behind you desk next time :>) I hope this is a great transition into a plug for a movie I saw on Friday called Indoctrinate U. http://indoctrinate-u.com/pages/inside.html
Unfortunately after seeing the movie I think I understand why Broadhead threw the Lacrosse team under the bus then drove over the players and coach as many times as possible until AG Cooper shot out the tires.
This book would definitely make a better film than anything Grisham has produced. A point the Diva made long ago!
KC's mass appeal is really much more than some of his colleagues can take....even those who are supposed to be friends.
Read the exchange I have posted below from Progressive Historians website. BTW, on all the other posts presented there, the number of comments in response barely number the fingers on one hand....or none at all.
However, for the post on KC, there were around 60 comments.
After the exchange below, I was met with pure childish ad hominems by someone you'd think could have contained his not-so-hidden jealousy of KC's broad appeal.
In the end, Jeremy Young covered for him by falsely characterizing a response of mine so he would have an excuse to delete Luker's embarrassing behavior.
That's how some of these guys do it. They alter and inhibit any from of speech that shows them under the bad light where they are often found.....when they feel they cannot be in control of the "narrative".
I really need to reproduce what I posted so that we all can see how very mendacious these people can be. This has given me a new respect for what KC endures every time he doesn't produce a piece of work that conforms to their world view.
No wonder Young's website has so few people going there. The subject of KC must have overwhelmed them.
The exchange---
(Observer) opines:
The only things really left to argue about are whether the Group of 88 professors were as badly behaved, their scholarship as shallow, and their continuing conduct (sans apology) as contemptible as KC Johnson asserts.
(Ahistoricality) replies:
Lo, and behold: that's exactly what we are arguing about! If you ignore the DiW imports here and read what Mr. Young and myself have written....
Well, that and whether KC's feeding the trolls of anti-academic, anti-intellectual conservativism -- there's your DiW comment crew -- is accidental or with malice aforethought.
Debrah replied:
".....whether KC's feeding the trolls of anti-academic, anti-intellectual conservativism -- there's your DiW comment crew -- is accidental or with malice aforethought." ********************************************
I have to say that this is some of the most insular and hermetically-sealed ignorance I have read on any blog in quite some time.
This is what KC has to fight in order to illuminate the truth about a group of overpaid, under-educated, and rabid agenda-filled people who have dug into the very fabric of academia and brought the quality of a university education in this country into unimaginable squalor.
I'm very glad to be reading this....and by extension, a few other blogs in the last few days.
It's almost like being inside a time capsule that was sealed about mid-20th century.
Please, for the sake of this country and for your own mental well-being......come on up!
It's now 2007.
KC Johnson has ignited a revolution.
A revolution that is going to bring the academy back to actually educating its students.
Not harming them with personal pathologies and agendas.
I have held off on buying UPI,mostly because I was so addicted to DIW that I read every post/ every comment/ every day.
A question for those who have followed the blog religiously as I did, and then read the book: Should I read the book? Is there stuff in the book I wouldn't have learned from the blog?
I think I know the answer - but I'll throw it out there.
Sometimes, it means that a book gets read over a longer period of time,and ultimately sells more copies. The movie equivalent - (a re-release) - was "Braveheart." It didn't do as well the first time 'round. But then...?
Because of the integrity of the work, and the repeated, bizarre, inexplicable attacks upon UPI, we may see the day of "Now in its thrid printing!" Then, maybe it'll come out in paperback. (Will it come out in paperback?) Maybe after the movie?
Big picture? The slow-release of the book may have been a work of accidental genius. Or deliberate.
That's been bothering me too, why did the publisher put out such a small first printing?
At the time I bought my copy, right after the initial release, Borders had only one copy in the store.
UPI would be weeks at number one on the best seller lists if the publisher had printed enough.
Oh well, it's a great book. Besides the egregious behavior of Nifong and Durham officials, it's an expose of the fascist climate that smothers our campuses across the country.
I have just begun to read UPI again...I raced through it the first time when I finally received it from Amazon...although I am not sure why. I become enraged all over again on almost every page. I have given away 7 copies so far and have yet to receive anything other than raves.
Yes, I went to Duke to listen to a talk by KC Johnson, and it was my understanding that flyers telling of the meeting were torn down. I bought 4 of these books and had them autographed. Thank you and gave them to friends including two PhD's. The real battle now is with a culture of political correctness that allows almost any lie to be rationalized in defense of a rascist, sexist agends.
If you have something you wish to discuss, you may do it here.
I am curious why you asked that I contact you.
It is my hope that you saw the underhanded and dishonest tactic used by Jeremy Young to save Luker from himself.
I actually complimented him and said that I was sure he excelled in his field; however, the topic of plagiarism has always plagued MLK's work.
That topic was even being discussed at length on the New York Times op-ed fora back in 2000---when Jeremy Young was still in high school.
Luker couldn't handle himself well with this issue--issuing more embarrassing and childish name-calling--and Jeremy deleted my post along with Luker's to create a false impression for those who might read it.
That's how some of these little academics operate.
So distasteful.
(BTW, their envy of KC is always so sadly palpable.)
"A question for those who have followed the blog religiously as I did, and then read the book: Should I read the book?"
In short yes I would recommend that you read the book.
The book organizes the data better then the blog. The blog by necessity tells the story when the information is released the book tells the story in more of a chronological order. Additionally there is some information in the book that is not in the blog i.e. some of the player’s interviews.
Anonymous said... I have held off on buying UPI,mostly because I was so addicted to DIW that I read every post/ every comment/ every day.
A question for those who have followed the blog religiously as I did, and then read the book: Should I read the book? Is there stuff in the book I wouldn't have learned from the blog? ----------------------------- These are typical comments from someone not paid to have comments. BeldarBlog-- The online journal of a crusty, longwinded trial lawyer ……… He says: : “I'm a lawyer. But not YOUR lawyer!”
--------------------------- Review: Stuart Taylor, Jr. and KC Johnson's "Until Proven Innocent"
“ In it you will find much that is educational, shocking, funny, revolting, pathetic, outrageous, courageous, smarmy, and fascinating.” (I think he knows Wahneema)
"It is a genuinely compelling story that, as I read it, frequently alarmed my poor dog (me laughing, me shouting in disbelief, me slamming the book down and then pacing and muttering for five minutes, me getting all choked up with empathy, me racing over to the computer to Google something or someone, me laughing again, and so forth).”
To the DIW reader who asks about reading the book. Yes, buy it. Read it. You won't be disappoionted. I have followed the blog daily for quite some time and am informed by the book on each page. another addict.
Here is a link to the post at Progressive Historians that you reference, Memo to KC Johnson: Please Get Better Critics. The remark you left that directed the comments thread away from Piot's hit piece and ignited your spat with Ralph Luker is at 10/27/07 at 10:36 AM.
Why you, of all people, would start a flame war with Ralph Luker, of all people, is beyond me. If you think you didn't start it: why you would participate in it leaves me equally mystified.
Perhaps you never read the results of a Google search like "Ralph Luker" "KC Johnson". Thus you may have been ignorant of the role Luker has played in Johnson's blogging career, dating from well before the Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax.
The book is well worth the read, even for those of us who've followed this blog closely for 18 months. Taylor's interesting influence can be seen, for one thing, and the book also drives home, all in one place, the immensity of Nifong's crimes.
New data is provided, especially regarding the three accused and the internal workings of the defense, quite a bit of which, I believe, hasn't been discussed on this blog.
The case made by Taylor and Johnson, by virtue of their tenacious scholarship and research, is bulletproof, which is why those who come off badly are so unhappy about the book's success. No rebuttal is possible. The best they can do is produce flabby and weak nonsense like Charles Piot's latest embarrassment in the journal Transforming Anthropology.
The book has several (like over 10) grammatical errors that I've counted. It appears the copy editing was rushed.
...At the time I bought my copy, right after the initial release, Borders had only one copy in the store. :: I paid a visit to five (5) Borders several times and could not find the book and then it hit me. Each of the 'managers' at Borders along with the clerks floating about on the floor have the 'elf like' appearance of a Woman's Study graduate and...they all gave me the Poo-Poo look when I asked about UPI.
>[AMac] cannot reproduce what Jeremy Young altered for his and Luker's own purposes...which is the issue.
I don't know what this means. If it's just high-flying rhetoric, fine. If an accusation of skullduggery: what, exactly?
As far as "cannot reproduce" whatever-it-is about that comment thread: actually I can, thanks to Google Desktop's cache. But everything about it is Kosher, AFAICT.
“………clerks floating about on the floor have the 'elf like' appearance of a Woman's Study graduate and...they all gave me the Poo-Poo look when I asked about UPI.” --------------------------
Now that you mentioned your clerk/elf observation, I think you are right. Last year I asked about Bill O’Reilly’s book for kids. Man, that book was in an odd section, bottom shelf, next to the bathroom. My little elf didn’t help me much either. I was buying a Christmas presents too. Amazon is looking better and better.
In response to Debrah's comments on ProgressiveHistorians, I'll note only that the post of hers there that she quotes has not been deleted and, in fact, remains visible. What I deleted was her comment accusing Ralph Luker of "rampant plagiarism" in the MLK Papers project, and his response calling her a "hopeless nitwit." I considered both comments beneath the level of discourse that's acceptable for my site, and the former (by Debrah) to be potentially criminally libelous.
I want to warn every member of the Wonderland crew of one important thing:
If you ever venture into a forum of people with a Left agenda or any other type of entrenched bias and there is a heated debate...argument....whatever--always make a copy of your comments.
If only these people would spend more time actually reading what was posted instead of whipping up fantasies to divert attention away from the actual culprits, we would all be better for it.
> If you ever venture into a forum of people with a Left agenda or any other type of entrenched bias and there is a heated debate...argument....whatever--always make a copy of your comments.
Good advice; the last phrase, alone, is better yet.
I still don't know what charge, if any, Debrah is laying against Jeremy Young (11:19pm).
Debrah: email me at amac-2007 at usa dot net and I will send you my Google-cache copy of the "Progressive Historians" thread you reference. I will also share the "Email follow-up comments" versions of your later contributions.
Meanwhile: what is it that you suspect happened there?
Debrah, AMac's trying to get you to e-mail him so he can send you a copy of your deleted comment -- he apparently has a cache saved of it. I'd send it to you myself, only I don't have it any more.
I obviously have no problem with you having a copy of your own comment, which is your own intellectual property, I just didn't want it posted on my website.
Hey, Deb, You want to have a go at it over here at D-i-W? Your every comment is more evidence for those who will claim that commenting at D-i-W is cult-like behavior. "KC is a god" "KC has started a revolution" ... Brilliant!
I said my piece this morning at Deborah's blog The Diva World (or this link, if the first doesn't work). She has responded to me there.
There is much to be said for assuming good faith until evidence indicates otherwise, submitting hot comments only as a last resort, and avoiding ad hominem.
Tactically, prudence might suggest limiting petty disputes with people who generally agree with you on the important issues.
Just because they sell the books is no indication they read the books. I am a committed book buyer and never have had a minium wage employee speak a polictical or social opinion. This is a stretch - but when you believe in conspiracys, they are everywhere.
Anonymous said... ....never have had a minimum wage employee speak a political or social opinion. This is a stretch - -------------------- That might depend on what books you are requesting. I wanted to buy the book by the Swift Boat Veterans before the last election.
After a lengthy search among the best sellers,I asked for a computer search. They had one book,"Usually found in the political section." It was at that time the talk of TV and radio shows.
The clerk in fact said to me,“The book is a farce” and that is a direct quote.I went to the store manager, and asked what the store policy was on staff dispersing unsolicited political commentary to a customer. He said,“Well of course we don’t condone that.”
You don’t think B &N bases their pre-orders on how they hope to shape sales? You must not have noticed the pile of books by Bill Clinton, no one wants.
The next time you are in B & N, ask for an older Ann Coulter book. Just be current on your CPR procedures. I have a niece in the book business. Amazon, and other Internet sales are making serious in-roads. Bookstores playing little games, are only hurting their own sales. Who cares? I don’t.
If you are looking for UPI, save gas, try Amazon.com.
The "ear-biting" analogy was precise and imaginative. Mike Nifong DID stoop to that level of unprofessionalism. It was an excellent, though too short, review. My short review of the review would then be: "Short, but excellent!"
Regarding the Debrah, AMac & Ralph spat:
It's like Thebans fighting Spartans fighting Athenians while the Persians rest.
"We did what we were trained to do, what we were bred to do, what we were born to do!" MOO! Gregory
I'm back at home now, and retrieved the controversial deleted comment from my computer. This morning, you wrote:
> Jeremy was wrong. The "plagiarism" was attributed to MLK.
That is not the way I had parsed your comment on the first reading (presumably, Jeremy didn't, either). However, reviewing it tonight, the phrasing could be taken to attribute plagiarism to MLK, rather than to Ralph Luker. With the help of your explanation, I see that that was what you meant.
Writing comments in questionable taste in the heat of an online argument may not be a best practice, but it's not a mortal sin. Thus, I was in error when I called your comment "arguably libelous" earlier today. I apologize for characterizing your remark in that fashion.
Traveler - I ordered and received ten copies (for Xamas presents) from Amazon in September of UPI with no problem. I do know that the fake "swift boat folk" were lying - I am not familiar with the book but if written by one of those fakes, it is a "farce." While rummmaging around BandN for old Barbara Cartland novelettes, I do buy other books. No minim wage employee has ever commented on the books for sale.
Anonymous said... I do know that the fake "swift boat folk" were lying - I am not familiar with the book but if written by one of those fakes, it is a "farce."
While rummmaging around BandN for old Barbara Cartland novelettes, I do buy other books. No minim wage employee has ever commented on the books for sale. ------------------------------- I think I see the problem, you are believing the MSM liberal bias.You don’t know that the “swift boat folk were lying .“ I don’t remember for sure, but it was like 60-3 men saying that it was the truth. The leftist media just didn’t want that known. I am glad to see you here. Keep an open mind, and read many points of view. There are dozens of posters here that have changed their thinking because of the Duke case. Welcome aboard.
"The Swift Boat Vets for Truth" have been totally discredited for their attempt to vilify John Kerry. I lived in DC at the time. The real vets came out in uniform and medals to support Kerry. He served his country while most men who could get into stayed in college to avoid their responsibility to their country. BTW, I have been here from the beginning but thanks for the welcome.
More good Reviews: UPI & D-I-W Family Security Matters ---------------
“Until Proven Innocent is one of the great legal books of our time, while meticulously researched, it reads like a crime thriller. Read it to understand the rot infecting the human heart and read it to understand the rot permeating our universities.”
"KC Johnson has done our justice system an immeasurable service through his blog “Durham in Wonderland” writing over 850,000 words on the case.” http://familysecuritymatters.org/index.php?id=1384984
It is possible (well, likely) that a climate of "Political Correctness" at Duke fostered the writing and signing of the Listening Statement by faculty and staff. Is PC specific to Duke, or is it a phenomenon that exists at other universities as well?
Via Insty, some evidence. FIRE quotes passages from undergraduate Diversity Facilitation at the University of Delaware here.
Could have been written by the worst of Duke's reverse-racists. If reverse racism existed, that is: "A term created and used by white people to deny their white privilege. Those in denial use the term reverse racism to refer to hostile behavior by people of color toward whites, and to affirmative action policies, which allegedly give 'preferential treatment' to people of color over whites. In the U.S., there is no such thing as 'reverse racism.'"
""The Swift Boat Vets for Truth" have been totally discredited for their attempt to vilify John Kerry. I lived in DC at the time. The real vets came out in uniform and medals to support Kerry."
Baloney. The "Swift Boat Vets have been totally discredited" is exactly the same type of lie and myth that "something happened" with the lacrosse case is today.
Blogger John Hinderaker, whose Powerline Blog has been a great supporter of KC Johnson, DIW, and UPI, has "KC Johnsoned" (exposed the truth of) this outright lie that the "Swift Boat Vets have been totally discredited." Read the facts about it here.
This subject is borderline off-topic, so I'll not make another comment about it.
amac @ 10/30 2:22 PM and 10/31 12/16 PM re the racist diversity training at the University of Delaware:
1) If I weren't reading it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it.
2) It won't work.
Last year, Alexandra Kalev of Cal, Frank Dobbin of Harvard, and Erin Kelly of the University of Minnesota published the first systematic analysis of "diversity training" in the corporate world from 1971-2002 (the stories some friends of mine could tell you about sitting through those...) in American Sociological Review, August 2006, Vol. 71: 589-617.
As Time summarized one of their findings: "Studies show that any training generates a backlash and that mandatory diversity training in particular may even activate a bias."
No kidding. "Me (pick a color), me good. You white, you racist." I'd be sitting through the session wondering more about the person's intelligence than about race.
"Diversity facilitating" is big business in the corporate world because it's perceived as a way to head off or mitigate the effects of lawsuits (another myth busted by Dobbins, Kalev, and Kelly), but even some facilitators (scroll down to "Telling Grand Rapids Why Diversity Training Doesn't Work") get it. When will the universities?
Another excellent review! Cape Girardeau is a colorful old town on the Mississippi River just south of St. Louis ... this exposure in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch is a coup in a key market.
ReplyDeleteBravo!
One Spook
KC,
ReplyDeletePlease can you tell your readers how sales of UPI are doing, now that the reprinting has been done? I believe it is worthy of a place in the bestseller list. Can you goive us any reason why your publisher "sabotaged" the book by such a small initial printing?
DANinZA
KC,
ReplyDeleteYou’re not only an author but a movie star as well! (Great job but maybe you could clean your cubby hole behind you desk next time :>) I hope this is a great transition into a plug for a movie I saw on Friday called Indoctrinate U. http://indoctrinate-u.com/pages/inside.html
Unfortunately after seeing the movie I think I understand why Broadhead threw the Lacrosse team under the bus then drove over the players and coach as many times as possible until AG Cooper shot out the tires.
Tom E.
Yet another glowing critique of UPI.
ReplyDeleteThis book would definitely make a better film than anything Grisham has produced. A point the Diva made long ago!
KC's mass appeal is really much more than some of his colleagues can take....even those who are supposed to be friends.
Read the exchange I have posted below from Progressive Historians website. BTW, on all the other posts presented there, the number of comments in response barely number the fingers on one hand....or none at all.
However, for the post on KC, there were around 60 comments.
After the exchange below, I was met with pure childish ad hominems by someone you'd think could have contained his not-so-hidden jealousy of KC's broad appeal.
In the end, Jeremy Young covered for him by falsely characterizing a response of mine so he would have an excuse to delete Luker's embarrassing behavior.
That's how some of these guys do it. They alter and inhibit any from of speech that shows them under the bad light where they are often found.....when they feel they cannot be in control of the "narrative".
I really need to reproduce what I posted so that we all can see how very mendacious these people can be. This has given me a new respect for what KC endures every time he doesn't produce a piece of work that conforms to their world view.
No wonder Young's website has so few people going there. The subject of KC must have overwhelmed them.
The exchange---
(Observer) opines:
The only things really left to argue about are whether the Group of 88 professors were as badly behaved, their scholarship as shallow, and their continuing conduct (sans apology) as contemptible as KC Johnson asserts.
(Ahistoricality) replies:
Lo, and behold: that's exactly what we are arguing about! If you ignore the DiW imports here and read what Mr. Young and myself have written....
Well, that and whether KC's feeding the trolls of anti-academic, anti-intellectual conservativism -- there's your DiW comment crew -- is accidental or with malice aforethought.
Debrah replied:
".....whether KC's feeding the trolls of anti-academic, anti-intellectual conservativism -- there's your DiW comment crew -- is accidental or with malice aforethought."
********************************************
I have to say that this is some of the most insular and hermetically-sealed ignorance I have read on any blog in quite some time.
This is what KC has to fight in order to illuminate the truth about a group of overpaid, under-educated, and rabid agenda-filled people who have dug into the very fabric of academia and brought the quality of a university education in this country into unimaginable squalor.
I'm very glad to be reading this....and by extension, a few other blogs in the last few days.
It's almost like being inside a time capsule that was sealed about mid-20th century.
Please, for the sake of this country and for your own mental well-being......come on up!
It's now 2007.
KC Johnson has ignited a revolution.
A revolution that is going to bring the academy back to actually educating its students.
Not harming them with personal pathologies and agendas.
I have held off on buying UPI,mostly because I was so addicted to DIW that I read every post/ every comment/ every day.
ReplyDeleteA question for those who have followed the blog religiously as I did, and then read the book: Should I read the book? Is there stuff in the book I wouldn't have learned from the blog?
I think I know the answer - but I'll throw it out there.
3:51 DAN in ZA:
ReplyDeleteYou must have heard of "Now in 2nd printing!"
Sometimes, it means that a book gets read over a longer period of time,and ultimately sells more copies. The movie equivalent - (a re-release) - was "Braveheart." It didn't do as well the first time 'round. But then...?
Because of the integrity of the work, and the repeated, bizarre, inexplicable attacks upon UPI, we may see the day of "Now in its thrid printing!" Then, maybe it'll come out in paperback. (Will it come out in paperback?) Maybe after the movie?
Big picture? The slow-release of the book may have been a work of accidental genius. Or deliberate.
It should come as no surprise that the Herald-Sun has given Karla Holloway's pathetic diatribe a prominent place on their editorial page.
ReplyDeleteAshley is most certainly a pimp for Duke's Gang of 88 until the end.
How many more "columns" will we see from these destructive people......trying to rehabilitate themselves?
That's been bothering me too, why did the publisher put out such a small first printing?
ReplyDeleteAt the time I bought my copy, right after the initial release, Borders had only one copy in the store.
UPI would be weeks at number one on the best seller lists if the publisher had printed enough.
Oh well, it's a great book. Besides the egregious behavior of Nifong and Durham officials, it's an expose of the fascist climate that smothers our campuses across the country.
I have just begun to read UPI again...I raced through it the first time when I finally received it from Amazon...although I am not sure why. I become enraged all over again on almost every page. I have given away 7 copies so far and have yet to receive anything other than raves.
ReplyDeletetrinity60
I'm surprised the the "12th Street Pravda" (St. Louis Post-Dispatch) would permit this review to appear.
ReplyDeleteYes, I went to Duke to listen to a talk by KC Johnson, and it was my understanding that flyers telling of the meeting were torn down. I bought 4 of these books and had them autographed. Thank you and gave them to friends including two PhD's. The real battle now is with a culture of political correctness that allows almost any lie to be rationalized in defense of a rascist, sexist agends.
ReplyDeleteWaiting, waiting, waiting for *my* copy of UPI to arrive from Amazon. Supposed to be on my front porch this week! Can't wait much longer.
ReplyDeleteI am a DIW addict--and am hoping UPI will help satiate my appetite, since blog postings are not as frequent as they once were.
Fresh hell from The Diva World:
ReplyDeleteDebrah said...
TO "AMac"--
If you have something you wish to discuss, you may do it here.
I am curious why you asked that I contact you.
It is my hope that you saw the underhanded and dishonest tactic used by Jeremy Young to save Luker from himself.
I actually complimented him and said that I was sure he excelled in his field; however, the topic of plagiarism has always plagued MLK's work.
That topic was even being discussed at length on the New York Times op-ed fora back in 2000---when Jeremy Young was still in high school.
Luker couldn't handle himself well with this issue--issuing more embarrassing and childish name-calling--and Jeremy deleted my post along with Luker's to create a false impression for those who might read it.
That's how some of these little academics operate.
So distasteful.
(BTW, their envy of KC is always so sadly palpable.)
"A question for those who have followed the blog religiously as I did, and then read the book: Should I read the book?"
ReplyDeleteIn short yes I would recommend that you read the book.
The book organizes the data better then the blog. The blog by necessity tells the story when the information is released the book tells the story in more of a chronological order. Additionally there is some information in the book that is not in the blog i.e. some of the player’s interviews.
"There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written."
ReplyDelete"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."
KC must be in good shape according to Oscar Wilde!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI have held off on buying UPI,mostly because I was so addicted to DIW that I read every post/ every comment/ every day.
A question for those who have followed the blog religiously as I did, and then read the book: Should I read the book? Is there stuff in the book I wouldn't have learned from the blog?
-----------------------------
These are typical comments from someone not paid to have comments.
BeldarBlog-- The online journal of a crusty, longwinded trial lawyer ………
He says: : “I'm a lawyer. But not YOUR lawyer!”
---------------------------
Review: Stuart Taylor, Jr. and KC Johnson's "Until Proven Innocent"
“ In it you will find much that is educational, shocking, funny, revolting, pathetic, outrageous, courageous, smarmy, and fascinating.”
(I think he knows Wahneema)
"It is a genuinely compelling story that, as I read it, frequently alarmed my poor dog (me laughing, me shouting in disbelief, me slamming the book down and then pacing and muttering for five minutes, me getting all choked up with empathy, me racing over to the computer to Google something or someone, me laughing again, and so forth).”
http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2007/10/review-stuart-t.html
To the DIW reader who asks about reading the book. Yes, buy it. Read it. You won't be disappoionted. I have followed the blog daily for quite some time and am informed by the book on each page. another addict.
ReplyDeleteTO 3:51 AM--
ReplyDeleteIt's possible for KC's book to be selling fifty years from now if the publishng houses do their jobs.
The book "Atlas Shrugged" which was written by Ayn Rand in 1957 sold 150,000 copies last year.
It's all in getting the message out.
In the book world commercialism is a good thing.
Debrah 9:40 AM --
ReplyDeleteHere is a link to the post at Progressive Historians that you reference, Memo to KC Johnson: Please Get Better Critics. The remark you left that directed the comments thread away from Piot's hit piece and ignited your spat with Ralph Luker is at 10/27/07 at 10:36 AM.
Why you, of all people, would start a flame war with Ralph Luker, of all people, is beyond me. If you think you didn't start it: why you would participate in it leaves me equally mystified.
Perhaps you never read the results of a Google search like "Ralph Luker" "KC Johnson". Thus you may have been ignorant of the role Luker has played in Johnson's blogging career, dating from well before the Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax.
First rule of holes.
AMac provides a link which we already have; however, she/he cannot reproduce what Jeremy Young altered for his and Luker's own purposes......
ReplyDelete.....which is the issue.
Not an old link.
Traveler - For twenty bucks, how could you go wrong?
ReplyDelete9:52 AM
ReplyDeleteThe book is well worth the read, even for those of us who've followed this blog closely for 18 months. Taylor's interesting influence can be seen, for one thing, and the book also drives home, all in one place, the immensity of Nifong's crimes.
New data is provided, especially regarding the three accused and the internal workings of the defense, quite a bit of which, I believe, hasn't been discussed on this blog.
The case made by Taylor and Johnson, by virtue of their tenacious scholarship and research, is bulletproof, which is why those who come off badly are so unhappy about the book's success. No rebuttal is possible. The best they can do is produce flabby and weak nonsense like Charles Piot's latest embarrassment in the journal Transforming Anthropology.
The book has several (like over 10) grammatical errors that I've counted. It appears the copy editing was rushed.
beckett
"ear-biting prosecutor"? The "Fong" has yet another nick name.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 10:49 said...
ReplyDelete...At the time I bought my copy, right after the initial release, Borders had only one copy in the store.
::
I paid a visit to five (5) Borders several times and could not find the book and then it hit me. Each of the 'managers' at Borders along with the clerks floating about on the floor have the 'elf like' appearance of a Woman's Study graduate and...they all gave me the Poo-Poo look when I asked about UPI.
amazon.com works for me.
::
GP
Deborah (10/28/07 5:11 PM) --
ReplyDeleteHe.
You wrote,
>[AMac] cannot reproduce what Jeremy Young altered for his and Luker's own purposes...which is the issue.
I don't know what this means. If it's just high-flying rhetoric, fine. If an accusation of skullduggery: what, exactly?
As far as "cannot reproduce" whatever-it-is about that comment thread: actually I can, thanks to Google Desktop's cache. But everything about it is Kosher, AFAICT.
Gary Packwood said
ReplyDelete“………clerks floating about on the floor have the 'elf like' appearance of a Woman's Study graduate and...they all gave me the Poo-Poo look when I asked about UPI.”
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Now that you mentioned your clerk/elf observation, I think you are right. Last year I asked about Bill O’Reilly’s book for kids. Man, that book was in an odd section, bottom shelf, next to the bathroom. My little elf didn’t help me much either. I was buying a Christmas presents too. Amazon is looking better and better.
In response to Debrah's comments on ProgressiveHistorians, I'll note only that the post of hers there that she quotes has not been deleted and, in fact, remains visible. What I deleted was her comment accusing Ralph Luker of "rampant plagiarism" in the MLK Papers project, and his response calling her a "hopeless nitwit." I considered both comments beneath the level of discourse that's acceptable for my site, and the former (by Debrah) to be potentially criminally libelous.
ReplyDeleteI want to warn every member of the Wonderland crew of one important thing:
ReplyDeleteIf you ever venture into a forum of people with a Left agenda or any other type of entrenched bias and there is a heated debate...argument....whatever--always make a copy of your comments.
If only these people would spend more time actually reading what was posted instead of whipping up fantasies to divert attention away from the actual culprits, we would all be better for it.
Debrah wrote (1:36am) --
ReplyDelete> If you ever venture into a forum of people with a Left agenda or any other type of entrenched bias and there is a heated debate...argument....whatever--always make a copy of your comments.
Good advice; the last phrase, alone, is better yet.
I still don't know what charge, if any, Debrah is laying against Jeremy Young (11:19pm).
Debrah: email me at
amac-2007 at usa dot net
and I will send you my Google-cache copy of the "Progressive Historians" thread you reference. I will also share the "Email follow-up comments" versions of your later contributions.
Meanwhile: what is it that you suspect happened there?
Debrah, AMac's trying to get you to e-mail him so he can send you a copy of your deleted comment -- he apparently has a cache saved of it. I'd send it to you myself, only I don't have it any more.
ReplyDeleteI obviously have no problem with you having a copy of your own comment, which is your own intellectual property, I just didn't want it posted on my website.
Hey, Deb, You want to have a go at it over here at D-i-W? Your every comment is more evidence for those who will claim that commenting at D-i-W is cult-like behavior. "KC is a god" "KC has started a revolution" ... Brilliant!
ReplyDeleteI said my piece this morning at Deborah's blog The Diva World (or this link, if the first doesn't work). She has responded to me there.
ReplyDeleteThere is much to be said for assuming good faith until evidence indicates otherwise, submitting hot comments only as a last resort, and avoiding ad hominem.
Tactically, prudence might suggest limiting petty disputes with people who generally agree with you on the important issues.
MY B and N in Vegas has no elfs but does have a few pierced folk - male and female.
ReplyDeleteJust because they sell the books is no indication they read the books. I am a committed book buyer and never have had a minium wage employee speak a polictical or social opinion. This is a stretch - but when you believe in conspiracys, they are everywhere.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete....never have had a minimum wage employee speak a political or social opinion. This is a stretch -
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That might depend on what books you are requesting. I wanted to buy the book by the Swift Boat Veterans before the last election.
After a lengthy search among the best sellers,I asked for a computer search. They had one book,"Usually found in the political section." It was at that time the talk of TV and radio shows.
The clerk in fact said to me,“The book is a farce” and that is a direct quote.I went to the store manager, and asked what the store policy was on staff dispersing unsolicited political commentary to a customer. He said,“Well of course we don’t condone that.”
You don’t think B &N bases their pre-orders on how they hope to shape sales? You must not have noticed the pile of books by Bill Clinton, no one wants.
The next time you are in B & N, ask for an older Ann Coulter book. Just be current on your CPR procedures. I have a niece in the book business. Amazon, and other Internet sales are making serious in-roads. Bookstores playing little games, are only hurting their own sales. Who cares? I don’t.
If you are looking for UPI, save gas, try Amazon.com.
Regarding the Post-Dispatch, review:
ReplyDeleteThe "ear-biting" analogy was precise and imaginative. Mike Nifong DID stoop to that level of unprofessionalism. It was an excellent, though too short, review. My short review of the review would then be: "Short, but excellent!"
Regarding the Debrah, AMac & Ralph spat:
It's like Thebans fighting Spartans fighting Athenians while the Persians rest.
"We did what we were trained to do, what we were bred to do, what we were born to do!" MOO! Gregory
Debrah --
ReplyDeleteI'm back at home now, and retrieved the controversial deleted comment from my computer. This morning, you wrote:
> Jeremy was wrong. The "plagiarism" was attributed to MLK.
That is not the way I had parsed your comment on the first reading (presumably, Jeremy didn't, either). However, reviewing it tonight, the phrasing could be taken to attribute plagiarism to MLK, rather than to Ralph Luker. With the help of your explanation, I see that that was what you meant.
Writing comments in questionable taste in the heat of an online argument may not be a best practice, but it's not a mortal sin. Thus, I was in error when I called your comment "arguably libelous" earlier today. I apologize for characterizing your remark in that fashion.
(cross-posted at The Diva World)
Traveler - I ordered and received ten copies (for Xamas presents) from Amazon in September of UPI with no problem. I do know that the fake "swift boat folk" were lying - I am not familiar with the book but if written by one of those fakes, it is a "farce." While rummmaging around BandN for old Barbara Cartland novelettes, I do buy other books. No minim wage employee has ever commented on the books for sale.
ReplyDeleteTO "AMac"--
ReplyDeleteYou'll have to go to my place for a reply.
I'm being muzzled over on this forum for some reason....after being accused above of "libel".
Let Luker know that his friend is looking out for him here.
I feel I have been inside another Hoax.....which only the Leftists can design.
The strange people at PH seem to have brought the Daily Kos tactics with them.
Manufacture.....muzzle....and then smile....with the soft collegial voice of malice.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI do know that the fake "swift boat folk" were lying - I am not familiar with the book but if written by one of those fakes, it is a "farce."
While rummmaging around BandN for old Barbara Cartland novelettes, I do buy other books. No minim wage employee has ever commented on the books for sale.
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I think I see the problem, you are believing the MSM liberal bias.You don’t know that the “swift boat folk were lying .“ I don’t remember for sure, but it was like 60-3 men saying that it was the truth. The leftist media just didn’t want that known. I am glad to see you here. Keep an open mind, and read many points of view. There are dozens of posters here that have changed their thinking because of the Duke case. Welcome aboard.
I'm glad to see that Debrah's finally being held to account by some of the locals here. I've often found that her wildest claims go unchecked.
ReplyDelete"The Swift Boat Vets for Truth" have been totally discredited for their attempt to vilify John Kerry. I lived in DC at the time. The real vets came out in uniform and medals to support Kerry. He served his country while most men who could get into stayed in college to avoid their responsibility to their country. BTW, I have been here from the beginning but thanks for the welcome.
ReplyDeleteMore good Reviews: UPI & D-I-W
ReplyDeleteFamily Security Matters
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“Until Proven Innocent is one of the great legal books of our time, while meticulously researched, it reads like a crime thriller. Read it to understand the rot infecting the human heart and read it to understand the rot permeating our universities.”
"KC Johnson has done our justice system an immeasurable service through his blog “Durham in Wonderland” writing over 850,000 words on the case.”
http://familysecuritymatters.org/index.php?id=1384984
It is possible (well, likely) that a climate of "Political Correctness" at Duke fostered the writing and signing of the Listening Statement by faculty and staff. Is PC specific to Duke, or is it a phenomenon that exists at other universities as well?
ReplyDeleteVia Insty, some evidence. FIRE quotes passages from undergraduate Diversity Facilitation at the University of Delaware here.
Could have been written by the worst of Duke's reverse-racists. If reverse racism existed, that is: "A term created and used by white people to deny their white privilege. Those in denial use the term reverse racism to refer to hostile behavior by people of color toward whites, and to affirmative action policies, which allegedly give 'preferential treatment' to people of color over whites. In the U.S., there is no such thing as 'reverse racism.'"
Who could make this stuff up?
Anon @ 11:27 AM writes:
ReplyDelete""The Swift Boat Vets for Truth" have been totally discredited for their attempt to vilify John Kerry. I lived in DC at the time. The real vets came out in uniform and medals to support Kerry."
Baloney. The "Swift Boat Vets have been totally discredited" is exactly the same type of lie and myth that "something happened" with the lacrosse case is today.
Blogger John Hinderaker, whose Powerline Blog has been a great supporter of KC Johnson, DIW, and UPI, has "KC Johnsoned" (exposed the truth of) this outright lie that the "Swift Boat Vets have been totally discredited." Read the facts about it here.
This subject is borderline off-topic, so I'll not make another comment about it.
One Spook
A worthwhile post by David Thompson on the diversity racists of the University of Delaware is here. Good comments and links therein, too.
ReplyDeleteamac @ 10/30 2:22 PM and 10/31 12/16 PM re the racist diversity training at the University of Delaware:
ReplyDelete1) If I weren't reading it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it.
2) It won't work.
Last year, Alexandra Kalev of Cal, Frank Dobbin of Harvard, and Erin Kelly of the University of Minnesota published the first systematic analysis of "diversity training" in the corporate world from 1971-2002 (the stories some friends of mine could tell you about sitting through those...) in American Sociological Review, August 2006, Vol. 71: 589-617.
As Time summarized one of their findings: "Studies show that any training generates a backlash and that mandatory diversity training in particular may even activate a bias."
No kidding. "Me (pick a color), me good. You white, you racist." I'd be sitting through the session wondering more about the person's intelligence than about race.
"Diversity facilitating" is big business in the corporate world because it's perceived as a way to head off or mitigate the effects of lawsuits (another myth busted by Dobbins, Kalev, and Kelly), but even some facilitators (scroll down to "Telling Grand Rapids Why Diversity Training Doesn't Work") get it. When will the universities?
dave