Wednesday, November 07, 2007

Update: Resounding Vote for Status Quo

Mayor Bill Bell was re-elected, with 58 percent of the vote.

In the City Council race, Diane ("Block the Police Inquiry") Catotti topped the voting. And Farad Ali--who shared with Victoria Peterson the endorsement of the Durham Committee on the Affairs of Black People--was elected to the Council. "Spoiler Steve" Monks failed in his Council bid.

On a more encouraging note, Readers' Digest has named Moez Elmostafa as among its heroes of the year.

136 comments:

Debrah said...

OK, I can go to bed now.

KC's up.

LIS!

Anonymous said...

CHRIS DAVIS, HARVARD '73

I lived in Brazil for a year in 1980. It was a great education in what separates a first-world country from a developing one.
But every year I've been back, I've begun to notice the cultural tone of the USA's more and more approximates that of the Brazil I knew 25+ years ago:

o Political scandals

o Collapsing currencies

o Large swaths of the electorate with little or no education

o Mountains of debt

o Bad prisons

o Rotten leadership across a range of sectors:academia, government, health, etc.


The Durham election results would be par for the course in any third-world country, where the overriding criterion for candidate selection is familiarity with the electorate, not probity. Is there a cost to all the shennanigans?
Sure, all you have to do is log onto Bloomberg.com and watch the dollar fall one per cent a day(for a currency, that is the equivalent of flatlining). The cost of poor leadership, debt, hollowed-out manufacturing, uncompetitive education("Hooking up at Duke" is a course? Not in Asia, pal)is easily quantifiable, just like the fall of the cruzeiro and the cruzado which replaced it was quantifiable.
$2.5 trillion of impaired mortgages, 2.0-3.0 million upcoming house foreclosures with an estimated $600 billion of losses
doesn't endear your country to anyone.

Anonymous said...

Is Catotti a Communist?

AF said...

It would seem that 58% of the Durham voters just agreed to pay the millions of dollars for perpetuating the hoax. Wonder how many of them actually pay taxes and will be shelling out to cover the lunacy? Probably significantly less than 58%.
Some people never learn. The 3:06 talked about third world countries. Durham is proving itself to belonging there.
Durham doesn't need a looking glass. It needs to fall into the rabbit hole!

mac said...

Thank God for Mr. Elmostafa!
He's been - in my mind - the key person in the whole affair all along. Without his heroics, it's hard to say what might've happened.

The Reader's Digest article makes the 88 and Nifong and the Dee Pee Dee and their ilk all look profoundly bad, as their collaborative efforts set-up or contributed to the effort to railroad a working man, to falsely imprison him, too - a man who did nothing wrong but tell the truth.

Hey Ellen Dagenhart - you mean you like the idea of Mr. Elmostafa going to jail in order to collect from the City of Duhh? Ya gotta do the time in order to collect the dime? I hope he sends your real estate bills into the atmosphere!

I mostly hope some very lawyers are shopping their services to Mr. Elmostafa, if they haven't already. The Readers Digest article may just be the poison on the tip of the arrow for the false accusers.

Jungle Jim said...

What I want to know: When will Elmostafa file suit against Durham, Nifong, Gottlieb, et al?

Ralph Phelan said...

$30,000,000 isn't enough.

Anonymous said...

Is there afund to help Elmostaffa pay his friend the $2500?

Anonymous said...

Standing up for truth and what's right can be expensive. I stood up to politically correct thinking over the past several months and have had to find employment elsewhere. I begin my new job in two weeks.

This could have been, however, an expensive lesson in standing up and being counted. But, I am now willing to run my life according to my own values that I have learned from my parents and taught to my kids - not the politically correct hogwash spewed by thin skinned tin horned "leaders". And I will let the chips fall where they may fall and have conviction in my abilities to succeed over the long term.

Power does not like truth, but it is key that we as individuals have an ounce of backbone and the courage to push back when it is important.

This blog has helped me understand my role in standing up to the erosion of what most of hold to make America great.

My hat is off to Mr. Elmostafa. You are the perfect example of a great American. Best wishes to you, sir.

Anonymous said...

OK, so now who is feeling just fine about Duke/Durham as college choice for their child? Town-gown relations have not only taken on new significance in the college search post Duke hoax, but so has the local political scene.

Observer

Anonymous said...

Has Mr. Elmostafa received any support from Jesse Jackson, the ACLU, or the Duke faculty? I find it amazing that he had the courage to stand up the way he did, and yet still has $2500.00 in legal fees.

Anonymous said...

KC:

There is always a silver lining in every dark cloud.

I want each of these corrupt individuals sitting exactly where they have always been. What better indication that Durham cannot, on its own, heal itself?

Ken
Dallas

Ralph Phelan said...

There's an interesting aspect to the Durham election story: turnout.

Here in Nashua, NH we had mayoral election too.

We were replacing a retiring incumbent. I rather disliked the outgoing mayor for his "edifice complex," - building an expensive stadium, running up huge legal fees in an unprecedented attempt to use emininent domain to buy the private water company that supplies the city, etc. But whenever I was tempted to bitch too hard about him I'd read something about Bill Bell or Ray Nagin and reflect on how much better he was than either of those two.

Running to replace him were two pretty decent candidates. One was a former Republican state rep with a restaurant bankruptcy in her past. The other was an alderman from the "tax and spend" faction of our city council, but by most other regions' standards our tax-and-spenders are still pretty cheap b@$t@rds.

In this election between pretty decent and pretty decent, with no disasters needing to be averted and our most pressing problems a road expansion that's been dragging on for thirty years, an eminent domain lawsuit that will probably drag on for thirty years, and the fact that our schools are no better than average at keeping up with NCLB, we got a 32% turnout.

In Durham, which has a continuing crime crisis, an inability to manage basic functions like disposing of trash and supplying clean water, a seriously corrupted police department, and a looming lawsuit that could theoretically put the whole city into receivership, only 22% could be bothered to vote.

Anonymous said...

Good point, 7:27. Mr. Elmostafa was the real African-American victim in this case, and yet none of the AA groups that pretend to be interested in justice for black Americans has stepped forward to help Mr. Elmostafa in any way. Yet another example of their hypocricy.

Anonymous said...

OK, there are a couple of things misleading in the sum up of the election.

First of all, the commingling of Farad Ali and Victoria Peterson (who were both endorsed by the DCABP) implies they share the same views. Nothing could be further from the truth. Victoria Peterson is a crazy woman who seriously needs mental help. Ali, on the other hand, is a mainstream candidate who's a registered Republican and whom Thomas Stith encouraged his donors to give money to.

And a lot of liberal friends of mine in Durham, and I, voted for him, because he's competent and has strong fiscal and leadership skills.

Before being surprised that Bell won re-election, look at the choice in this election. Thomas Stith was not a legitimate or strong alternative. Had there been one, Bell would not have been re-elected.

traveler said...

Class in session:

While reading other blog comments about the G-88, I have come across this statement a second time. I am not sure who the [someone] probably is. Is it [someone] who questions group-think?

These clever posters throw a bomb, and then run for cover!

Anom. :
“The only thing sadder than [someone] who monitors and reports on contemporary Marxists is [someone] who monitors and reports on DEAD Marxists.”

Anonymous said...

According to UPI, however, it says one of the attorneys represented Elmo for FREE. Let's get the story straight. Which one is it?

Anonymous said...

I live in Durham and voted yesterday for none of the folks who won. It didn't make much of a difference, unfortunately. It appears that not much was made of the two separate shootings in Durham just yesterday morning either.

Business as usual here in crazytown.

David Page said...

I agree with Mac. "Thank God for Mr. Elmostafa!"

A legal defense fund was set up to help with costs. Ho can that money be tapped? The expenses for Mo to defend himself should be covered by those who he helped set free.

Maybe some of the profits from the UPI book I bought could be offered.

He should not have to bear these expenses in light of his bravery.

Anonymous said...

Elmo is a hero!

Durham reminds me of the old saw: "You reap what you sow."

mac said...

My guess is that Mr. Elmostafa now has - with the Reader's Digest article and the well-deserved title of "hero" - enabled the feds with a cover story in order to proceed.

Amazing what a hero is - and isn't. Jesse Jackson is a shrinking, cowardly worm compared to Mr. Elmostafa.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
OK, so now who is feeling just fine about Duke/Durham as college choice for their child? Town-gown relations have not only taken on new significance in the college search post Duke hoax, but so has the local political scene.

Observer

11/7/07 7:18 AM


Broadhead himself could offer all expenses paid to Duke for my kids--and we wouldn't take him up on the offer.

Duke/Durham is a scary place if you are a white male student athlete, which both of my sons are. One enters college next year--the other in 4 years.

Not even a full ride scholarship to Duke would make us feel safe in that town, in that school, under current so-called "leadership".

TBNT--(thanks, but no thanks)

scott said...

In recent months some Durham residents and their supporters have commented here that the "greedy" lax players shouldn't expect Durham to pay them millions because a majority of people in Durham didn't vote to elect Nifong as DA (he won on a plurality, not a majority).

Well, now we are even further from the events of 2006, and even more evidence has leaked out that Durham city government was complicit in the hoax, and what do the residents of Durham do? Re-elect Mayor Bell and Councilwoman Catotti with large majorities. Talk about being stuck on stupid.

Ok, Reade, Colin, and Dave ... if there was ever a doubt (and there wasn't), Durham has proved it is incapable of getting the message.

It is time for you and your attorneys to loose the hounds and take no prisoners.

Anonymous said...

"On a more encouraging note, Readers' Digest has named Moez Elmostafa as among its heroes of the year."

That IS encouraging. The honor is a recognition that while we all can't rush into a burning building, telling the truth can make anyone a true hero.

traveler said...

Re: GANG (Squad) OF 88

Another blog comment indicates the dishonorable ones DETEST being called a GANG.

They seem to hate sooo much, but they especially
H-A-T-E the word Gang, as opposed to the hoax ‘gang-rape’ words they loved, perhaps!

Such tender feelings, belated crocodile tears, who would have thought these people had any hate left to share?

Maybe GANG is not quite the right word, we could, in our generous spirit, at least look for another suitable word.

Gang Related Words: bevy, covey, flock, herd, horde, mob, swarm, throng; club, college, fellowship, guild (also gild), league, organization, society; cohort, pack; camp, faction, sect, side, tribe; mess, squad; brotherhood, fraternity, order, sisterhood, sodality, sorority; commune; alliance, bloc, coalition, confederation, congress, council, federation, union

I think we need to consider another term with this in mind however:

The supreme quality for leadership is unquestionably integrity.

Without it, no real success is possible, no matter whether it is on a section gang, a football field, in an army, or in an office.

-- Dwight David Eisenhower

Debrah said...

John Leo on FIRE

Debrah said...

Mr. Elmostafa is most certainly a very courageous man.

Just think of the guts it took knowing what could have been done to him by the corrupt people in power in a place like Durham.

He had everything to lose.......and chose the right thing instead of what might have been safer for him.

I hope that the families of Reade, Collin, and David...as well as their attorneys.....find a way to reward him in some way.

I realize that this isn't necessary; however, I'd drop about $50,000 on him out of the settlements as a token of thanks.

Anonymous said...

Lots of you out there know every line in UPI by heart. Does it or does it not say Elmo got pro bono help by one of the boys' lawyers?
So what's with the $2500?

Anonymous said...

"That IS encouraging. The honor is a recognition that while we all can't rush into a burning building, telling the truth can make anyone a true hero."

In some ways I wonder if that wasn't the worst offense in this whole fiasco -- as horrible as it was for Nifong himself to turn his back on the pursuit of justice merely to fatten his pension, the fact that he persecuted Elmostafa merely to send the message "Don't stand up for truth and justice" is chilling. Which is worse -- to be a monster, or seeking to make others monsters too?

And I too have wondered if there's something that we out here could do for Mr. Elmostafa to show our appreciation for his integrity and make up for what Nifong put him through.

TaterCon said...

FYI, KC, my email inbox this morning contained a promotion for a 3 hour ethics seminar sponsored by the NC Bar Association entitled "Anatomy of a Hoax", centering on the Duke Lax case. It's scheduled for Dec. 12 at the Bar Center in Cary, NC, and the three speakers will be Jim Cooney, Joe Cheshire and Wade Smith. For those that can't attend in person, there will be an opportunity for lawyers all across the state to tune in for a live webcast.

TaterCon

Anonymous said...

My husband was major of a town that had been riddled with corruption much like Durham... collusion between developers, banks, real estate, politicians, etc. When a mayoral recall was successfully undertaken, he was drafted to become the new mayor. He also earned a second term on his own.

However, as the legal mess began to unravel, and the stuff hit the fan because of what the previous corrupt administration did, it was my husband's administration that took the blame. Why? Because voters have very short memories, and often do NOT connect the dots between cause and effect.

While I was lamenting the results of yesterday's elections in Durham, my husband's opinion was that this is a GOOD thing. Because when the stuff ( the BIG stuff) hits the fan in Durham, it will fall precisely on those who are guilty of promoting the hoax, and they will be the ones the public will ( eventually) blame for the fall of Durham.

I hope he's right.

dsl

Anonymous said...

10:33 --

You forgot "cult", which IMHO has more than a little resonance as applied to the lunatics still clinging to the untenable "something happened" mantra.

Debrah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Stephen said...

8:39 justifiably wonders why none of the "leaders" of the AA community has not stepped forward to help Mr. Elmostafa, a real African American victim. Answer - No cameras, no microphones = no Jackson, no Sharpton. No air time, no personal enhancement = no Jackson, no Sharpton. Hypocrites? ---- In the worst of all possible ways. Shameful.

elena said...

It seems as though Durham voters live in their own universe or refuse to be bullied by the truth.

This is no different that the re-elction of Marion Berry.

Ruth said...

Repeatedly asking about the $2500 does not make it a valid question. If Mr. Elmostafa says he owes a friend money he borrowed that's good enough for me. That's what honesty gets you, trust.

Exactly what expense (lawyer, bond, other) related to his false prosecution that money represents is irrelevant. Your repeated suggestion that there's something nefarious is highly offensive as it is leveled at a man who did the right thing at great risk to himself. That's the very definition of honor and integrity to me.

Debrah said...

This is so irritating.

I linked the same way I always do. Why the link died?

¡ Yo no sé !

Otra vez:

More FIRE from Williams

Anonymous said...

I will have to agree with Chris Davis. One of the reasons I came to the US was to escape the smothering control that our despotic leader had on the entire nation. Fast forward 20-some years later, I feel like I'm back to where I once was without having left the US at all. With an electorate choosing Bush over Kerry because the former is cuter, no wonder we're in the mess we're in right now. We certainly deserve what we're getting now. Don't get me wrong. I still and will always love this country, but the people that dominate the politics and decision-making, it seems to me, are too US-centric and lack a global perspective. IMHO.

Serine, Duke PhD

Anonymous said...

11:41
I personally think he IS a hero and should be honored as such. I'd give him money myself. But mark my words, some foes are going to latch onto that "discrepancy" and try to turn it into stink. I know these people and so do you. They are looking for was to discredit UPI. I'm on your side.

Debrah said...

TO "dsl"--

Yesterday, while you were also lamenting various features of these fora, you mentioned that you lived in the western part of NC.

That area is perhaps one of the most beautiful creations in the United States. The Blue Ridge Parkway (Blue Ridge Mountains) are not as coldly majestic as the Rockies, but more naturally beautiful.

I hope the state continues to provide the funds necessary for the upkeep of the Parkway. I've read that many repairs are needed.

Also, I'm sure there is some form of corruption even in the quaint village towns in your area, but just not as visible.

Lots of old money up there--Cone Mills, Shuford Mills, the ski resorts, Asheville's downtown upheavals, lots of seedy real estate brokers up there who pull "time share" scams constantly......and,

....now that Google has invested millions in a new plant and extended operation in western NC, not only will this be an infusion of new life into their dying furniture industry, but perhaps some new opportunities for "corruption" as well.

LOL!!!

BTW, the late Ed Bradley's mother is from Morganton, NC--hometown of Watergate's Senator Sam Ervin--and the story goes that she moved the family to Philadelphia when Ed was a baby.

Interesting, no?

Debrah said...

KC has almost a thousand Weblog votes now!

FYI:

The poll will close Thursday (tomorrow) at 5:00PM (EST).

Anonymous said...

And the hoax continues. Just some more bull to the city on the banks of denial. I am disgusted!
Rhonda

Anonymous said...

How about giving Beth Brewer, blog hooligans, and myself some recognition for exposing the deception? There have been many people who have stood up to "the powers that be" and we have not had lawyers standing behind us to hide behind.

We have gone public and have been extremely vocal about the corruption. I applaud Elmo, but has anybody wondered if he was chosen to help ease "race relations?"

I do not want to toot my own horn, but I think our actions have taken far more courage and time. This saga is not over by far. The corruption continues, and Durham's response is to deny the problems, lie, and divert attention to numerous examples of serious issues that continue without mention.

Again, the LAX3 have NOT been the only victims. Do not turn this forum into another website that only posts one sided journalism, and avoids the seriousness of our journey into the black hole.

There are countless lies yet to address. Hushing us into obscurity just shows the hypocrisy, and lack of respect to all of us whose lives remain in limbo. We do not want awards, but answers and change!
Rhonda Fleming
Justice4Jack

John said...

$2500 could well have been the paid retainer for Elmostafa's first local attorney. It's not at all unusual. Then when one of the Duke lax defense lawyers took the case pro bono, the fee obligation would have stopped. But the retainer would have already been paid, and probably used up, since at, let's say $150 per hour (quite normal for crim defense even in a small town), it wouldn't buy you much more than 2 days worth of work. If the cabbie wanted to cash in, as another poster seemed to be implying, he hardly would have stopped at the insignificant sum of $2,500. I believe him.

Anonymous said...

Deborah,

Glad you like my part of the world. When I am not visiting other parts ( yes, I " get out" a bit) I am most grateful to live here.

Greed and corruption are not limited to Durham ( where two of my children were born while I went to grad school at Duke), nor WNC, nor USA, nor anyplace.

The human heart holds a frightenly wonderful capacity for both good and evil...

Come and see me sometime.

We appear to hold many values in common... if two strong women can have a civil conversation there is hope for the world.

dsl

Anonymous said...

I don't know where Serine at 12:09 comes from, but she is spot on about the US. I think she could take it farther: many -- most? -- Americans are Americanocentric and lack a global perspective. Austria? Australia? It's all the same to us.

And, yes, Americans have earned what we're getting: huge foreign debt, loss of jobs, dropping currency value.

Anonymous said...

Gang of 88. They had better get used to it. They have earned a place in American herstory.

Jim in San Diego said...

My suggestion for an appropriate reward for Mr. Elmostafa: A tenured professorship at Duke University.

He could teach anything he wishes -apparently the existing tenured professors in the soft sciences do just that.

The award of tenure could be worded something like this:

"The Mike Niphong professorship of ethics. Awarded to Mr. Elmostafa for his courageous behavior to protect Duke students, at a time that virtually no one else at Duke would accept that responsibility".

Gary Packwood said...

dsl 11:06 said...

...While I was lamenting the results of yesterday's elections in Durham, my husband's opinion (former Mayor) was that this is a GOOD thing. Because when the stuff ( the BIG stuff) hits the fan in Durham, it will fall precisely on those who are guilty of promoting the hoax, and they will be the ones the public will ( eventually) blame for the fall of Durham.
::
I am becoming quite the fan of blogs since I learn so much.

I had not thought about your excellent point.

I wonder if the same could be said about the leadership of Duke including the members of the Board of Trustees?
::
GP

mac said...

1:29

I know you weren't referring to my post, but I'd say Mr. Elmostafa could rightly and justly "cash-in" for a lot more than $2500.

While I agree that the young men - the falsely accused young men - might decide it fair and just to help Mr. Elmostafa out, it would be a better thing if the City of Duhh were to provide a nice, fat retirement package (and a tidy sum of cash) for the threats to his freedom, perpetrated by Duhh's Finest and the DA's office. It was Duhh's doing, no one else's.

Maybe Mr. Elmostafa has his own reasons for not wanting to sue, but in my book, he ought to - with a vengeance.

Anonymous said...

Ruth said...
Repeatedly asking about the $2500 does not make it a valid question. If Mr. Elmostafa says he owes a friend money he borrowed that's good enough for me. That's what honesty gets you, trust.

Exactly what expense (lawyer, bond, other) related to his false prosecution that money represents is irrelevant. Your repeated suggestion that there's something nefarious is highly offensive as it is leveled at a man who did the right thing at great risk to himself. That's the very definition of honor and integrity to me.

11/7/07 11:41 AM


Exactly right.

::::clap, clap, clap::::

Those without honor and integrity assume everyone they encounter is a liar too--and therefore Elmostafa couldn't possibly be telling the truth about the $2,500 legal fee.

To the person making repeated suggestions about Elmostafa's legal fees: Just because you have no honor, decency or integrity, does NOT mean the rest of us lack what you do.

Anonymous said...

THis is why the civil suit is important. Durham just doesn't learn from their mistakes. They elected Nifong and now they re-elect Bell and elect Peterson. What the..... It makes no sense to the sensible. Who are these voters? Elmostafa should also sue Durham and the DPD for harrassment.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Lots of you out there know every line in UPI by heart. Does it or does it not say Elmo got pro bono help by one of the boys' lawyers?
So what's with the $2500?

11/7/07 10:50 AM


I would imagine that $2,500 was paid as a retainer initially to a lawyer to represent Elmostafa--and then the Duke 3 lawyers stepped in pro-bono.

Precisely *how* far do you think
$2,500 goes for a half-decent (nevermind great) lawyer like Cheshire, et al?

Let me tell you from personal experience (divorce attorney)--not very far at all.

$2,500 is a pittance of a retainer, for just ANY legal matter. Civil or criminal.

And I feel certain Mr. Elmostafa *did* borrow that money for an attorney before the boys' attornies stepped in to help this hero.

Anonymous said...

To 11:06 -- Thanks for a different perspective. I voted, and the people I associate with voted, but we did not win. As I've said before, I'm so grateful to KC and everyone else for shining light on the rot and decay in Durham. There are not enough decent, law-abiding citizens in Durham to make a difference. We NEED outside help..... BAD! You know what... if Nifong had been running even though everyone knows what a deranged lunatic he is, he would have won. That's Durham! Nasty place.

Michael Bacon said...

And to think K.C. just quoted thusly...

"Such questions betray a serious lack of understanding of the operations of large and complex educational institutions. They move rather ponderously and within the confines of strict protocols."

Substitute in "municipal governments," and, well...

Nobody bothers to note that Bell's opponent, Thomas Stith, has been sitting on the Council being useless for 8 years. And tarring Farad Ali, although I did not vote for him, with association with Victoria Peterson, just because crazy Lavonia "DON'T PISS ME OFF!" Allison bequeathed her blessing on both of them is unfair.

Sheesh. Context, people! Context!

One Spook said...

Rhonda Fleming @ 1:22 PM writes:

"Again, the LAX3 have NOT been the only victims. Do not turn this forum into another website that only posts one sided journalism, and avoids the seriousness of our journey into the black hole.

There are countless lies yet to address. Hushing us into obscurity just shows the hypocrisy, and lack of respect to all of us whose lives remain in limbo."


Im going to address your latest comments with the utmost respect and empathy for your tragic experience in the death of your brother.

I and no doubt many others here have noted your comments here. Some have replied to you. While we cannot ever know the extent of your grief, I believe your latest words have gone too far.

For you to advance the idea that this website "posts one sided journalism ..." is simply wrong. This Blog is devoted to the subject of the lacrosse hoax. Your Blog and cause is devoted to the examination of the death of your brother.

There is nothing "one sided" about this Blog's approach and your Blog any more than a comparison that could be made between a Blog devoted to childhood leukemia versus a Blog devoted to childhood diabetes; they are quite plainly different subjects.

You have made many, many posts here highlighting your subject. Readers here have had ample opportunity to examine your subject, and I'm sure many have done so, as I have. You have Blogs and comment threads where folks have helped you.

I'm certain that most of us who follow this Blog recognize that there are many other victims of the corruption and unlawful behavior of the Durham Police.

But, just because readers here have not taken up your cause on this Blog does not mean that they are "Hushing" you and your supporters "into obscurity" or what you might perceive to be a lack of interest in your cause "shows the hypocrisy, and lack of respect to all of us whose lives remain in limbo."

Those charges are way over the top and, in my opinion, unjustified. If I were the Blog owner, I would not clear any more similar comments from you because they are clearly "off topic."

I sincerely wish you all the best in your continued pursuit of your cause.

One Spook

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:02 wrote:
"Durham just doesn't learn from their mistakes. They elected Nifong and now they re-elect Bell and elect Peterson. What the....."

---

WTF are you raving about? Peterson certainly was NOT elected -- she did not even make the cut in the primaries. So she was not even on the ballot, or even eligible (unbder NC law) as a write-in. Just as she has repeatedly lost elections in Durham in the past. Cripes, the Durhamites aren't THAT stupid.

I'm not interested in trying to defend the Durham voters, but it doesn't help anyone when you just spew false information here. Try reading a newspaper before you post such a thing. Yeesh.

Ralph Phelan said...

"Nobody bothers to note that Bell's opponent, Thomas Stith, has been sitting on the Council being useless for 8 years."

(1) If he's useless that makes him a big improvement over Bell, who's actively harmful.

(2) Why didn't your primary process produce a better challenger?

There's no way around the fact that the majority Durhamites think Bell is ok.

Debrah said...

"Thomas Stith was not a legitimate or strong alternative. Had there been one, Bell would not have been re-elected."

That's not true and you know it.

The sleazy clique over there keeps one another in power. They will drive illiterates to the polls with voting guides already designed for them.....designed to vote the way the Liberal PACs want them to. They know how to get warm bodies inside the voting booths....no matter that those people don't know a thing about the issues.

That group of Lib-Dem cretins will peel off their own skins to stay in office.

And with such corruption...along with certain friends in charge of the process, it's not difficult.

Thomas Stith is no prize, but he's better than the parasitic Bell.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps once the civil suits are over, the three LAX families can reward Moez Elmostafa for the personal courage and integrity he displayed when he spoke the truth on hehalf of their sons.

Since I am not an attorney, my "guess" is that since he probably will be called to testify in their pending litigation it would be inappropriate for them to do anything to help him financially at this time.

Anonymous said...

This election demonstrates that it is now impossible in Durham for a meaningful "conservative" voice in public office(s). There are 145,000 registered voters in Durham (sadly, only 31,000 voted in yesterday's election). 75% are Democrats. The Monks, Funderburk approach was self-defeating in terms of winning a seat on the council. Between them, they had 20% of the vote. One of them, running without any conservative "competition" could have won, but would have been a voice in the liberal wilderness. Stith was trashed by the N&O and the H-S as a "contrarian" who couldn't build effective coalitions. What ostensibly conservative council member wouldn't be labeled a "contrarian" given the voting demographics in Durham and the reality that no more than one member of the council will ever be "conservative"?

The lawsuit against the City may be the only voice that conservative Durhamites will have in holding local government officials accountable for their poor performance in office.

no justice, no peace said...

Inre: "Gang"

That is not enough. I prefer Klan. They are what they claim to despise, intolerant, racist, bigots.

Anonymous said...

3:42 One Spook

Thanks for saying so eloquently what a lot of us have felt. Ms. Fleming certainly deserves to have her days in court and have her brother's death investigated. I read some of the accounts about it because of her continuous mentions of it on this blog.

However, this is NOT a forum for just any topic, no matter how sympathetic we may be with it.

If Ms. Fleming wants to continue to participate in the DIW blog, she needs to stay on topic, just like the rest of us need to do so

Nicole said...

Excellent: the Klan it is!

traveler said...

Flashback: Reply to troll

Anonymous said...
Please note everyone...in the above right-hand corner of the page the Web blog awards.

I checked it out. So KC is nominated for the category of best 3500-5000 ranked blogs? Is that really a big deal?
----------------------


As of September 2007, blog search engine Technorati was tracking more than 106 million blogs.

The words of the sensible one apply: "A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
-- Bill Cosby

Anonymous said...

Despite his being a victim of the justice system, I don't think we soon see Moaz Elmostafa as a presenter at the BET Awards.

RRH

Richard Aubrey said...

I believe crows in a bunch are called a "murder".

Anonymous said...

"The sleazy clique over there keeps one another in power. They will drive illiterates to the polls with voting guides already designed for them.....designed to vote the way the Liberal PACs want them to. They know how to get warm bodies inside the voting booths....no matter that those people don't know a thing about the issues."

Um, Debrah? Do you live in Durham? Have you ever been here?

Illiterates going to the polls? Not exactly, not in any way I've seen.

I'm guessing you're making the assumption that because Durham has a large minority population who typically vote Dem, they can be turned out straight to the ballot box. Check the election results: those parts of Durham turned in the fewest votes, and had the smallest impact on the election.

The areas that turned out disproportionately were middle-class and upper-middle-class portions of Durham that, yes, happen to be liberal/progressive. Just like Madison or Berkeley or Cambridge or Austin would.

And conservatives have certainly held power here before -- like Bell's predecessor, for instance, or many people on the County Commission.

Stith was really and truly not a candidate most of Durham wanted to support. His pathetic period on the Council speaks volumes to most voters about what we would/would not have gotten with him as mayor.

Anonymous said...

1. Once again, the Durham election proves that the people on this blog know nothing about what the people of Durham really think about the people and issues involved. Despite all the mud slung at Bell and trying to connect him to the Lax case, the people still elected him. People like Stith and Beth Brewer, etc, have no real local support and neither do the Duke 3,IMO. They lost a lot of sympathy with their lawsuit demands and when Bell publicly came out against settling, his re-election was assured. When Canotti said the things she said, her re-election was also assured. Durham still supports the police and the "something happened theory" and they do not think the so called enablers should be punished and they voted that way.

2.Cooper may be feeling a little queasy right now as the papers here have been mentioning him running against Dole for senator or in the governor's race as recently as this past week. Durham's support of Bell( who has been connected to the case by his opponents and who was vocal against Durham settling with the Duke 3) indicates that Cooper's support here may be shaky. Ie, if someone totally believes Cooper, then they believe that Bell, et al are hoax enablers and therefore would not vote for them. If one believes Bell and Canotti and not Cooper, etc, then you would vote for them. Obviously, Durham did not internalize what Cooper said as the so called "enablers" and opponents of settling with the supposedly wronged Duke 3 were re-elected.

Cooper will need Durham to defeat Dole as she is a formidible opponent and had widespread state support. Please note that although Evans was an intern for Libby Dole, she has yet to comment on the Lax case in public. Her silence speaks volumes.

3.For all the people who are lionising Elmo and worrying about his legal bills: Dont waste your time worrying. Elmo is considered a hero but that status would have evaporated at trial, IMO as he would have been shredded on cross. He had many factual errors in his statement including the wrong color of car he said he saw the women leaving in and saying the yard was full of men when both Duke PD and Durham PD record an empty yard at the EXACT same time. This means he was either lying bigtime or was clueless timewise which further casts doubt on his self created time log. He only came forward with his records, which he keeps on a personal computer himself( and are therefore easily altered unlike a separate cab dispatch system, which Elmo did not have), AFTER Segliman's father contacted him. The info about his computer records and the timing of coming forward were reported in the local papers here if anyone cares to review it. Rest assured, Elmo has no financial problems as he was already paid handsomely for his info, IMO and this is a widespread view in Durham.

mac said...

Anon 9:58 pm

I wonder how the "liberal/progressive" voters feel about the arrest of Mr. Elmostafa? Does this fit into their world view? Do they think it's ok for the police/DA to intimidate witnesses will false charges, made in order to bolster other false charges?

(Gee, the names "liberal/progressive" may be almost a libel these days!)

You seem like you might know the answer to these questions. A little help, please?

Anonymous said...

Barry Saunders,

Yo, did y'all read up top where you're in NORTH Carolina? Ski areas and all, "brother."

Time for your one way bus ticket and whatever it is that you eat, my friend.

no justice, no peace said...

"Doubt is the beginning, not the end of wisdom" - Geroge Iles

The Klan of 88 and their abettors will not allow others to critique their work. There is little transparency.

The Klan of 88 and their abettors show little, if any interest in any honest critique of their own work.

That the Klan of 88 refuse to allow others to doubt their work, are not self-critical, and instead use ad hominem attacks against those who do doubt their foundations does indeed suggest they are not wise.

A rock is not capable of doubting it's standing. The Klan of 88 voluntarily refuse to doubt their standing.

Does the voluntary act of not being self-critical make the Klan of 88 less wise than a box of rocks?

no justice, no peace said...

Inre: The Klan of 88 being less wise than a box or rocks.

Of course this thinking would strongly suggest that those who take Klan of 88 classes and those who pay for a Klan of 88 education are even less wise.

no justice, no peace said...

An interesting development.

The recently elected minority DA in Dallas was sued this week for discrimination. He fired multiple senior Asst. DAs who are white.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

KC Johnson said...

To the 2.26:

Thanks for your intriguing analysis.

I'm not sure what papers you've been reading in the last week, but they surely haven't been any North Carolina ones: Roy Cooper has repeatedly said that he's not challenging Dole, and, indeed, the same papers that allegedly were touting Cooper for Senate actually reported that the state party, in the last two weeks, has coalesced around the candidacy of state Rep. Kay Hagan.

Cooper, from all accounts, is a shoo-in for reelection as AG in 2008. I imagine that some in the Group of 88 will vote against him, but I rather doubt that will cause him much trouble.

I also wasn't aware that Beth Brewer had endorsed Stith or was involved in the Stith campaign in any way. Indeed, Jackie Brown, a key figure in the Recall Nifong effort, was a prominent Bell supporter.

Finally, the incumbent's name is Catotti, not Canotti.

Ralph Phelan said...

"Once again, the Durham election proves that the people on this blog know nothing about what the people of Durham really think about the people and issues involved."

Actually, I understand all to well. Which is why I once again say that $30,000,000 is not enough!.

Ralph Phelan said...

no justice, no peace said...
An interesting development.

The recently elected minority DA in Dallas was sued this week for discrimination. He fired multiple senior Asst. DAs who are white.


Have you been watching the news from New Orleans?

They had a similar case down there ... one which is going to cost the city a whole lot of money.

The DOJ may not care about the civil rights of white people. Fortunately judges and juries do, and plaintif's lawyers care about their contingency fees.

Anonymous said...

o 2:26

Regarding any factual inconsistencies in Elmo's statement -- what's the point? That's all typical in any witness statement, so much expected that perfect consistency is cause for suspicion.

Meanwhile, Elmo's cab is clearly visible in the time-stamped ATM photos, behind Seligmann!!

Or do folks in Durham also think that the big, bad whities also paid-off the BANK to photo-shop the ATM security pictures? Yeah, them rich white folk sure do stick together, eh?

mac said...

2:26 said:
"...and this is a widespread view in Durham."

It appears that my satirical presumption -(that many of the denizens of Duhh are huffing Jenkem) - is not merely a joke.

Just say no, Sgt Gottlieb!

Anonymous said...

2:26

I believe I read somewhere that Tuesday's election turnout was a whopping 22%. Right? That kind of malaise is not going to be a big factor in our NC Senate race... or any other race.

Durham politics has become incestuous... and as such perspectives like your do not hold much weight outside your own turf.

It is precisely analyses such as your that make it mandatory for the FEDS to come to Durham. I find your ability to re-spin and e-tell the facts of the story absolutely fascinating.

Are we supposed to believe YOUR analysis vs. KC's and Stuarts?

Hmmmm please present your credentials!

BTW... I am not real sure that the rest of the world currently gives a D____ what Durhamites think about the Hoax.

Let the investigations happen. Let the TRUTH begin ( or continue... it already began with UPI) My suspicion is that it will not matter what the FEDS find, Durhamites have chosen blindness to light, and lies to truth, and are as a culture, totally committed to their blindness.

It is sad.

But it WILL change.

WIth all my heart I believe that the day will come when some person / group will stand up and say "Enough already. We're taking back our ground" It may be awhile, and it may take courageous people who have not had the moxie to do it yet. But it WILL happen.

You watch.

hman said...

to 2:26
1. The City of Durham is nowadays a defendant in a Federal Civil Rights Case. So it counts for less than nothing how Durhamites feel towards the innocent Lax guys. Let there be full discovery of Durhams/Nifongs actions, let it go to a Federal Jury in another jurisdiction, watch that jury slowly develop a pitiless anger towards your city.
Read UPI. That is largely what the jury will hear.
2. Who cares about the internal politics of Durham? Like I said, what happens next is not up to you guys. As for Libby Dole; very few of the people who should have spoken up about this ever did so. That will between them and their self respect, if they have any.
3. The brave cab drivers story need not be perfect in all particulars to be taken seriously. Rcollections of seemingly unimportant taxi runs at night rarely are perfect. It only matters whether he gave them a ride that night or not. There are abundant time stamped fotos to provide the time-line.
Anyway, it does look like Durham will get a trial, after all, where every stone can be turned over and examined to what hides in rotten soil.

no justice, no peace said...

Inre: Kay Hagan...

It is interesting and shameful that her web site does not mention her party affiliation.

At one time her husband was very active in the Guilford County and State Democratic party. I assume he still is, but things have changed so much over the past years that maybe he/she are not.

Does anyone know which party Kay Hagan is running under?

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:26 says:

--begin snip--

3.For all the people who are lionising Elmo and worrying about his legal bills: Dont waste your time worrying. Elmo is considered a hero but that status would have evaporated at trial, IMO as he would have been shredded on cross. He had many factual errors in his statement including the wrong color of car he said he saw the women leaving in and saying the yard was full of men when both Duke PD and Durham PD record an empty yard at the EXACT same time. This means he was either lying bigtime or was clueless timewise which further casts doubt on his self created time log. He only came forward with his records, which he keeps on a personal computer himself( and are therefore easily altered unlike a separate cab dispatch system, which Elmo did not have), AFTER Segliman's father contacted him. The info about his computer records and the timing of coming forward were reported in the local papers here if anyone cares to review it. Rest assured, Elmo has no financial problems as he was already paid handsomely for his info, IMO and this is a widespread view in Durham.

--end snip--

I do not know if some of the details of Mr. Elmostafa's testimony could have been "shredded" on cross examination. What I do know is that his testimony was a small part of the overwhelmingly exculpatory evidence in the case, most of it essentially unimpeachable (DNA results, photos by an ATM camera which captured a photo of Mr. Elmostafa's cab and Reade Seligman's bank transaction, numerous other photos and receipts, phone records, key card entry data, etc). So, if you're thinking the success of the defense, had the case gone to trial, actually depended on Mr. Elmostafa's correct recall of somewhat tangential details, you can let that go and just be happy for the well deserved recognition Mr. Elmostafa has received.

Observer

Debrah said...

"Durham politics has become incestuous... and as such perspectives like your do not hold much weight outside your own turf."

Precisely.

The residents of Durham--those who supported Nifong and now have supported Bill Bell--are a particular strain found only in that seedy town.....a town with many eclectic attributes which have been overshadowed by the low-rent clique who elect their own cycle after cycle.

It's worth noting that you don't see Democrat pols like David Price, John Edwards, Mike Easley, and others coming around the place unless they need to slum for votes.

The very negative image the outside world has of Durham is at the door of those who prevailed at the ballot box--once again--on Tuesday.

Anonymous said...

Re. 2:26 AM, I think saw him cheering the soccer stars from Jena, Louisiana, at the BET awards.

scott said...

2:26 AM --

Durham still supports the police and the "something happened theory" and they do not think the so called enablers should be punished and they voted that way.

Like I said earlier, STUCK ON
STUPID!

Durham's support of Bell( who has been connected to the case by his opponents and who was vocal against Durham settling with the Duke 3) indicates that Cooper's support here may be shaky.

You gotta be kidding! Durham is the poster child for "Yellow Dog Democrat". Erskine Boles won Durham handily over Dole in 2002 and any Democrat will beat her in Durham in 2008. If Cooper does decide to run for the Senate, Governor, whatever, he will win in Durham hands down. People in Durham ("D") vote Democrat ("D"). It's an easy association for them to remember on election day. That Bell only got 58% shows how lousy a candidate he is.

He had many factual errors in his statement including the wrong color of car he said he saw the women leaving in

Details please. Did he mistake "dark blue" for "black"? Or "black" for "white"? He picked up Reade after midnight. It was dark. A lot of car colors are hard to distinguish at that time of night.

and saying the yard was full of men when both Duke PD and Durham PD record an empty yard at the EXACT same time.

Right about now I'd believe Elmo over the Duke PD and Durham PD on just about anything.

This means he was either lying bigtime or was clueless timewise ...

Or maybe you and the various police departments in Durham are lying bigtime and are clueless timewise. I don't know about you, but I know the Duke and Durham PD's have exhibited both conditions on several occasions.

Debrah said...

H-S editorial.

Cue ()))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Twilight Zone ((((((((((((((((((((((((((() music...........


Vote of confidence in city's direction

The Herald-Sun
Nov 8, 2007

Durham may be the Triangle town most prone to frank self-analysis. When things go wrong, Durham citizens don't hesitate to say so. So it was telling that on Tuesday, a large majority of Durham voters looked within themselves and declared that elected officials are leading in the right direction.

On the surface, the election was about the performance of the Durham City Council and its mayor. But it went beyond that. With four bond issues on the ballot, the election was also about the leadership of the Durham County Board of Commissioners and the Durham Public Schools Board of Education. With their ballots, voters indicated their general satisfaction with the status quo.

Mayor Bill Bell easily won re-election, as did incumbent council members Diane Catotti and Eugene Brown. Farad Ali was the third council member elected. And all the bond issues passed with large margins. They will support major renovations and new facilities at dozens of public schools, paving city streets and sidewalks and improvements at Durham Technical Community College and the Museum of Life & Science.

The robust support for the bonds is a sign that voters feel good about Durham. They're confident in the community's fiscal strength and support the pursuit of excellence in education and infrastructure.

The biggest contest of the day was the clash between three-term mayor Bell and veteran council member Thomas Stith. Stith ran the most expensive mayoral campaign in Durham history, making extensive use of mail, phone and media. He blasted Bell, at times unfairly, for failing to do enough to combat crime and for several perceived missteps.

Bell defended his record of downtown redevelopment and urban renewal and fired back at Stith for what he said was a spotty record of achievement on City Council.

In the end, Stith was an insider trying to run as an outsider. He had support, but it wasn't enough. Voters picked Bell by more than 5,000 votes, 18,576 to 13,289. We think voters appreciate Bell's distinguished record, his calm leadership and his willingness to roll up his sleeves and get involved in the nitty-gritty when necessary.

Likewise, on City Council, voters validated the leadership of incumbents Diane Catotti and Eugene Brown. Catotti was the most popular of the candidates, winning 21,081 votes and garnering support from across the Durham community. Brown ran second with 17,665 votes. Both are hard-working, conscientious and thoughtful representatives, and we're pleased voters returned them to office.

Ali received 13,652 votes, defeating the next-highest recipient, David Harris, who had 12,609 votes. This won't be the last we'll see of Harris, whose campaign got stronger as the election neared, and who also picked up a wide cross-section of community support. But we'll be interested to watch Ali in action on City Council. With his positive ideas and affable persona, Ali, an executive with the N.C. Institute for Minority Economic Development, could have a promising political future.

The election should create the opportunity for real progress in Durham city government. Bell and the incumbents have been returned with a mandate to lead, and Ali should work well with the current members.

And with City Manager Patrick Baker gaining experience and new Police Chief Jose Lopez now at the helm, we think there is a real chance to make progress against crime, which became one of the major issues of the campaign, and to heighten the attention on improving poor neighborhoods. We hope Bell and the City Council seize the moment.

Officials who backed the bond issues -- totaling more than $227 million -- were worried at first over a preliminary poll that put support for them at only around 50 percent. They needn't have worried. After a coordinated public campaign, the big ticket school bond, at $194.2 million, received the highest level of support -- 77 percent. The other bonds also garnered resounding approval: 75 percent for Durham Tech, 74 percent for the city streets bond and 70 percent for the Museum of Life & Science.

County Commissioners' chair Ellen Reckhow said she had hoped for a winning tally in the 60 percent area.

"But to have it in the 70s is huge," she said. "It's a real affirmation that our citizens are very supportive of education."

The success of the bonds and the positive community spirit reflected in the vote are good news indeed.

AMac said...

anon 11/8/07 2:26am --

Many thanks for your analysis of Durham politics, and how the case and its aftermath appear from there.

Please don't take the rebuttals to points of fact and opinion to mean that your observations aren't appreciated. To the contrary, they are!

Since you post anonymously, of course we have no context for your comments. But they ring true, to me. Perhaps you'll adopt a pseudonym so that future comments can be given extra weight (this is the road that "Duke Prof" has taken).

What some people in Durham think about matters political need not correspond with factual or legal realities. Or even political realities (Dole v. Cooper Senate race). That makes them all the more intriguing.

Anonymous said...

2:26 slanders:

"Rest assured, Elmo has no financial problems as he was already paid handsomely for his info, IMO and this is a widespread view in Durham."

Ah, the fabulous Courthouse Connie returns to grace us with her reality-optional wit and wisdom. Just a hint, Connie, since this is something you should have picked up working in the courthouse: whether something happened or didn't happen is not a matter of "opinion"; it is a matter of fact-vs.-non-fact. You cannot slanderously accuse a person of accepting a bribe, nor of offering one, by the way, and then defend it by saying "IMO", 'in my opinion'. If you are going to make allegations on factual matters, such as "So-and-so was paid off," you'd better have factual evidence to support it. If you make such allegations without evidence to support it, you may find yourself facing suits for slander and/or libel.

Anonymous said...

To 4:01PM: Durham is that stupid. They elected Nifong and re-elected Bell. Stupid is as stupid does.

Anonymous said...

"Please note that although Evans was an intern for Libby Dole, she has yet to comment on the Lax case in public. Her silence speaks volumes."

Please note that when Elizabeth Dole was contacted and asked to comment on the case, she incorrectly identified the year in which the case had begun and also displayed no knowledge of the fact that the three defendants had been publicly exonerated two months prior.July 2007

Elizabeth Dole's silence speaks volumes all right, but only about Elizabeth Dole's lack of knowledge.

Anonymous said...

"Durham still supports the police and the "something happened theory" and they do not think the so called enablers should be punished and they voted that way."

Yes. Despite there being no evidence for the "something happened" theory, the majority of Durham voters still cling to it the way only racists can, and they bring their bigotry with them to the polling station. I believe that's exactly the point KC was trying to make.

Me, I'm glad that the voters of Durham expressed their continuing support of the false prosecution. It confirms that they deserve to pay the expensive bill coming.

Anonymous said...

It's been said already, but I agree with those who aren't completely distraught over the election results: it's entirely appropriate that the original malefactors in the Durham/Duke case remain in place– like ducks in a row– for what's coming. They should be the ones to feel the blow, not some hapless clean-up crew that follows them.

I'm just sorry that the hard rain's going to fall on the just and the unjust alike. So a word to the just: It's going to rain. Hard.

dave

mac said...

One reason Catotti was better than some of the other candidates - (aside from the present issue) - is that she opposed some potentially unwise debt-swapping vis a vis Rice Financial Products. She was accused of basing her opposition to the swap on race (no surprise: it is, after all, the City of Duhh.)

Her opposition to the investigation of the Dee Pee Dee may have been similarly pragmatic, thinking - (perhaps) - that Duhh was in an untenable position, and therefore didn't need to help the litigants.

If she'd been shrewd, she'd have offered a settlement. And one to Mr. Elmostafa, as well. But then, she wouldn't have been re-elected in such a "racialist," poop-huffing town.

I wish she'd been honest about the hoax, more than anything.

Anonymous said...

Looks like Dr. Meehan at DNASI is no longer there. Fired perhaps?

http://liestoppers.blogspot.com/2007/11/where-in-world-is-mr-obfuscation.html

Like I've been saying--consequences WILL BE HAD for all the bad actors in this horrific hoax.

One of 'em bites the dust--with many more to go.

The Blog Hooligans won't rest until the guilty pay--every day of their miserable lives. :)

traveler said...

mac said...

I finally put 2 and 2 together: Professor Piot and other DIW/UPI critics may have been indulging themselves in a practice called "jenkem."

That would explain Piot's irrational - (if not putrid) -criticism of UPI.

Indeed, that may be the City of Duhh's biggest problem, in a soiled version of Frank Herbert's "Saratoga Barrier."
---------------------------
That is clever beyond description. BUT,

Do we know if the “jenkem” was made within the community? There is something different about Duhh all right, but we Dune’t know where the sewage plants is located. The gases have to be just right for dissociation and hallucinations, so we can assume it is close by. That there is a 'Chuckle' in this discussion in not remote.

Anonymous said...

Re Senator Dole,

I recently wrote her and PLED with her to lend her voice to those urging an investigation.

Her website assures us that if contacted she will respond.

So far, nothing... it has been about two weeks.

Not too cool for her constituency.

Debrah said...

The Weblog award is KC's.

At 5PM it's all over and he now has about 1200 votes.

That's it!

Debrah said...

Check out Johnsville News:

Duke Case--Watergate Version 2.0

Debrah said...

TO 3:38 PM--

You may just have to drive to DC and camp outside her and Bob's posh Watergate digs.

Monica Lewinsky and her mother used to live beside them, and when they moved out the Doles bought their apartment to extend their living space.

Six degrees from Billy Jeff, eh?

LOL!!!

Anonymous said...

A city crippling lawsuit is certainly indicated as NECESSARY to both highlight and punish the city for their behavior.....

Compassion is clearly not appropriate for these people...

Anonymous said...

Don't blame me, I voted for Stith.

traveler said...

nonymous said...
Re Senator Dole,

I recently wrote her and PLED with her to lend her voice to those urging an investigation.

Her website assures us that if contacted she will respond.

So far, nothing... it has been about two weeks.

Not too cool for her constituency.
11/8/07 3:38 PM
-----------------
Did you really expect Senator Dole to intervene into a legal matter? You would ask her to apply her political weight to influence an officer of the state, and a Democrat? What do you think the State’s Attorney would say about that?

Politicians get dragged into committee hearings for that sort of thing. Given a liberal media, to do what you suggest would be a gotcha moment for the press.

Senators receive thousands of e-mails, many from people not from their state. You will receive a form letter from an assistant as time permits. Taxpayers pay for all these letters, and office staff to generate them.

If you want to campaign against Senator Dole, and it is allowed, then do so.

I am an Independent voter, but I know a covert action when I see it. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you think Senator Dole is just sitting in her office waiting for e-mails from Democrats, so they can say, “Gee, its been two weeks, and I haven’t heard back, bad Liddy!”

Anonymous said...

2:26 Shredded?? What nonsence are you writing. Folk only get shredded when they lie and can not maintain the lie story during cross. Certainly not the case here. This cab driver is an innocent bystander who told the truth immediately. Your little scenario about Elmo's yard of boys and the DPD )the Duke PD was never involved in this part of the event) were at different times. When you tell the truth, they can not Shreed you.

Anonymous said...

I believe in Democracy and the people deserve the government of their choice. And if they are sleezes - they are sleezes. It is their right as American Citizens to have the govenrmant of their choice. i am not interested in Reno tells us what kind of government I need in Las Vegas, let alone Salt Lake City.

Anonymous said...

5:12. Won't be bothering to stalk the Senator. But one lifelong loyal Republican support is expendable, eh?

How about a WHOLE LOT of us who are feeling pretty disenfranchised and no place to go?

Anonymous said...

6:46: I believe it is perfectly legitimate to expect my senator, who is supposed to represent the interests of MY state, to lend a voice of influence to the request for an investigation by the office of the US Attorney General into a possible civil rights violation issue.

You'd better bet she would have done this long ago had had the falsely accused been black students!

I am just disappointed that Elizabeth Dole has not had the moral courage to advocate the pursuit of truth for a matter so profoundly important in her own state.

But then, I guess that the fact that Bob Steele, BOT Chairman at Duke is a Republican political appointee as undersecretary ( if there were letters that were smaller than this to underscore "under" I would use them!!!) of treasury may be of concern for Senator Dole.

I wonder if the polticians think that their constituences are so blind and stupid they can't connect the dots.

So now we know... loosing a few supporters, and throwing a former intern who worked in her office to the wolves( David Evans) don't bother Ms. Dole too much. In the light of overall political purposes, they are expendable.

I'm not a legal guru, but I do not believe that lending a voice to advocate for due process of law is yet a crime. However, that action could get a person in jail in a totalitarian country. That SHOULD concern all of us.

"nonymous"

Anonymous said...

Disenfranchised! I got your disenfrancised right here - I am a straight white male Republican in Durham. On top of that, I am not poor. Talk about not having a voice in government! Hoowee!

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah, as for the hard rain that's going to fall - bring it on - this drought is the worst one on record. In addition to corrupt government and police, we will soon run out of water. We will turn on the taps and nothing will come out. Taps - hey - that's appropriate, yes?

Ralph Phelan said...

"I wonder if the polticians think that their constituences are so blind and stupid they can't connect the dots."

Well, yes. And that belief is based on experience.

Anonymous said...

8:22 Hey man. Can you find a few more like you in Durham? You could apply for special privileges as a MINORITY group! Then, if they discriminate against you, you can holler for your civil rights. Nobody will listen... the MSM won't cover it. But you at least would get some attention from the sympathetic DIW bloggers and maybe have somebody to sit with when KC and Stuart come to town occasionally.

Debrah said...

"How about a WHOLE LOT of us who are feeling pretty disenfranchised and no place to go?"

The key is not to become aligned with either political party.

I always go for the individual candidate and the issues. Not party affiliation.

There are people on these fora who show up and sneak in their hatred for George Bush and the administration.

I try to counter with facts, but it's another election cycle, so ideology trumps everything.

The poor Liberals have to go back--if they want to be taken seriously--and relive the Clinton administration. Forget about the chubby intern. Look at the criminality and the corruption tolerated by those people.

When Clinton came into office he fired ALL of the sitting U.S attorneys because they didn't share his politics. No one said a thing.

I might suggest to anyone who shows up here thrashing about and expressing distaste for the current administration, please do all of us a favor first.

Find Sandy Berger. Tell him to take his pants off.

You know.....the ones in which he hid many Clinton documents so the public would not see how corrupt those anemic 8 years really were...and how internationally incompetent they were.

Then we can talk about the subject of corruption you post here simply because you know that it will be approved....while retorts most often will not.

If anyone wishes for Wonderland to fade away......just start using this forum as it has been used of late.

I would suggest to all in the academy to take a good long trip through Europe--outside of the universities that perpetuate anti-American sentiments--and you will experience first-hand from the people there that this country is in no way diminished.

Real people love America and no pro-Islamic rhetoric will ever change that fact.

We have only to view the massive numbers of people who risk everything to get here.

I've frankly had it with this kind of bashing.....as they enjoy the very fruits of this country.

Anonymous said...

Deborah,

WATCH OUT!!! You might even convert me to a Divah fan!!

Absolutely timely and well-put.

Thanks!

dsl

Anonymous said...

I can not imagine anyone voting for Elizabeth Dole or John Edwards under any circumstances. What is the surprise now that she is a party hack? She was never doing anything to put herself on record in this case.

Anonymous said...

anon @11/09 9:38 AM wrote:

Oh yeah, as for the hard rain that's going to fall - bring it on - this drought is the worst one on record.

If the whole place dries up and blows away, that works, too. Whatever moves folks off the dime.

dave

Debrah said...

TO 12:03 PM-- LIS! :>)


TO 12:49 PM--I couldn't agree more.

Debrah said...

Whatever happened to Cousin Jackie?

mac said...

How many days of water does the City of Duhh have left?

Elijah may be in our midst.

The low water-level in Duhh and it's treatment of the stranger in its midst reminds me of the Kelo vs. City of New London, Connecticut decision by what I call the Jezebel Court. Naboth's image was found in 7 homeowners, and Jezebel's likeness was found in one Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg, who ought to have known better than to steal Ahab Naboth's vineyard after dispossessing Naboth. The only difference is that the 7 homeowners are probably still alive.

Duhh is going down:
It has a history of evil, from the original restrictions on the sale of property (see the Kistin Butler reference in the Update thread) to the overt racism expressed by its current owners, who are mirrors of the original racists who ran the show.

Its sins rub against each other, as in Bradbury's story "The Great Fire" - (if memory serves me correctly)- and the sin itself will ignite the spark. And there will be no water to put it out.

mac said...

BTW,
I'm not inviting anyone to torch the town of Duhh: it'll likely happen as a Duhh-ed-down-version of Ms. O'Leary's cow, with someone's misplaced crack pipe.

Anonymous said...

Mac,
In Larry Niven's "known Space" series,a central character(Louis Wu) remarks,"Stupidity can be a capital crime."
I think the Durhamites are committing suicide withtheeir re election.
corwin

Anonymous said...

I have lived in Durham for 15 years. I really like the place and have felt safe here. I am highly educated (my degrees are not from any of the universities in this state.) I am really saddened to see all of the hatred and disrespect towards the people of Durham on this site. We had an election here and people voted. This city is not a one issue city and the voting reflected that. I have no idea who voted to keep Nifong last year -- they obviously did not see what was in my opinion one of the best campaign signs I have ever seen -- one word -- NOFONG! I am disgusted by what happened in the Duke lacrosse case. However, I voted for people who I thought would continue the very significant advances we have made in this city in the past 5-7 years. Mayor Bell is not Ray Nagin nor is he Marion Barry and I resent the comparisons on these boards. I am orignially from the D.C. area and lived through the several terms of Marion Barry -- there is no comparison. The divisivness, racial issues, class issues, corruption, etc. highlighted so dramatically by the Duke scandal are the product of longstanding conflict within a very diverse and integrated city. I think this situation had the potential to really blow up into disaster in terms of our city -- i.e. riots, etc. -- I've lived through a few of those too. So something did go right here in the way everyone kept their cool. Frankly, during the early days of the scandal, our city stayed pretty much under control and the tensions dissipated fairly quickly. I think this says volumes about the quality of this city because we had outside agitators in here stirring people up and yet things remained calm. These are the kinds of things I look at when evaluating my city. I am not trying to minimize our problems. I am trying to highlight that Durham is a very complex city and as a city we did ok through all of this. People seem to love to trash our city but we are on the rise here. I believe we are far more integrated than most other cities nearby which means we have more challenges but more rewards too. You're not going to have scandals like the ones in Durham in Chapel Hill or Cary which are primarily white and mostly middle to upper class. We run the range in Durham and I've always thought that was a good thing. I can say nothing in defense of the scandal. I have no problem with people's feelings about it. I do take offense at being called stupid for voting for candidates who 1) have mostly helped this city and 2) were more qualified to serve than their opponents. Mayor Bell has a masters degree in electrical engineering from New York University. I mention this only because it surprised/impressed me when I was researching him. Perhaps that's not pertinent to his governance but it sure speaks to intellect. I guess my point is -- if you live here and want to trash our city, go right ahead. If you do not live here, consider that we have a whole city here to consider -- our election cannot just be about the lacrosse case and we're not stupid to realize that. We're going to be sued regardless and electing a new less qualified more divisive mayor and city council would not have changed that. But it could have potentially derailed the many good things that are going on in our city. By the way, the official election site says the voter turnout was 24.61%. This by the way was far higher than most other elections in this state this year. It would be very nice if more people voted here and everywhere in this nation. I'm thankful for the many that did.

mac said...

3:43 am

Nice points.

Now tell us more about the Dee Pee Dee, could you? You seem to have a good handle on things. How could the City of Duhh find itself sued over and over again for violating the rights of its citizens, and still do nothing? How do you explain the persistent prostitution, and the lack of enforcement? How about your disaster-of-a-City Manager, Baker? How do you explain the Chalmers Report?

How about the persistent number of persons who continue to believe - with regard to the hoax -that "something happened?"

Is it not the culture that permeates the City of Duhh that allows gossip and grapevines to trump reality and integrity and fairness, and so much so that your editor, Mr. Bob Ashley, is a stack short of a few pancakes? Papers, after all, tend to represent the readers.

And if that's the case, the Hurled Scum and the Dee Pee Dee are more representative of your city than your eloquent defense. Those are but a few examples.

You sound like a reasonable person: you might consider gathering your things in a hurry and beating an alacritous path to civilization.

Anonymous said...

3:43 AM and Mac

Please see this morning's entry on the "Update" segment.

dsl

Anonymous said...

3:43 and MAC

Please see this AM entry under "Update"

dsl

Anonymous said...

3:43AM Like your post. Durham does not appear to be a bad place, although my only NC experience was "stuck in Duck" for a week. I do have relatives in the mountains and Heath Schuler is their Representative. I was a resident of the District for thirty years at Dupont Circle. People forget that Marian Barry did a lot for the city and helped bring it back to life. Good luck to you folks.

Anonymous said...

If Marion Barry had been Mayor, at the time, Jack Kent Cooke would never have taken the Skins to MD. Marion understood business and could "Make a deal" with anyone. Great satisfaction on Snyder erradicating Cooke's name on the firty yard line. Brodhead and Steel will be remembered with the ame disdain forever in the history books of this event. That is better than public stocks.

mac said...

10:26
Yeah, Barry got the city stuck in the snow.
And the city's schools' roofs leaked.
And the schools paid more per-student than any place but Chicago, and were easily outperformed by the state with one of the lowest expenditures per-student: Utah.

And the City of Dee Cee was put under congressional oversight.

Other than that, and many other things too numerous to mention, Marion Barry did a fine job.

Anonymous said...

Like Durham, guess you had to have lived there to know the City and its real history and what really goes on there. I thought Gd made the snow - not Marian. DC is of the "let the sun shine" school of snow removal - because we get so little of it. The folk in the City do not mind at all because it is an extra day or two off. Marian was a big factor in turning the City around from a ghetto to the beautiful, great City, it is today.

Anonymous said...

To the pro-reparations crowd: I hope you enjoy your payout, which includes the following items, among others: re-election of morons to city government; imposing psychic costs on those of us who believe in truth, justice and the culture of achievement, not entitlement; and the satisfaction of precipitating a financial windfall for three deserving fellows from Duke. You will notice that none of these reparations involve payouts to your designated victimized group, but they are reparations all the same.

Enjoy!

Godefroid

mac said...

Anon 1:55

Aside from your misspelling of Marion Barry's name (it's MariOn, not MariAn, which you misspelled twice, so it's obviously not a typo) you just don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you lived there, just like the denizens of Duhh live in the City of Duhh who still they don't know their craniums from their ischiums. You can live there and still be a Duhh. Apparently, you can live in Dee Cee and be a Duhh.

Even the Washington post - no conservative rag - had nothing nice to say about the Barry administration, and encouraged the Feds to take financial control over it. I used to read it regularly, so stop trying to Bob Ashley your way into having us believe that Dee Cee was improved by "Hizzoner." (BTW, Tony Kornheiser was relentless, and chillingly accurate.)

DC doesn't get snow? Yeah, and "it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summer time, God didn't make little green apples..."

They didn't use what snow removal equipment they had - (just like the Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool, where nearly a thousand unused buses sat, NOT taking anyone to higher ground, "leaking diesel and motor oil into the already toxic water.")

Anyone who thinks Barry was a great leader probably was a beneficiary of one of his budget-busting grand schemes while the schools couldn't open on time because of the roof leaks.

And you're probably one of those of the "something happened" crowd, too. A bit of advice: don't let anyone talk you out of your straight-jacket. And don't trade your medications for recreational drugs. They don't have the same effect.

Anonymous said...

The 3:43 said:
I think this situation had the potential to really blow up into disaster in terms of our city -- i.e. riots, etc. -- I've lived through a few of those too. So something did go right here in the way everyone kept their cool. Frankly, during the early days of the scandal, our city stayed pretty much under control and the tensions dissipated fairly quickly. I think this says volumes about the quality of this city because we had outside agitators in here stirring people up and yet things remained calm. These are the kinds of things I look at when evaluating my city.

You might be feeling really good about the fact that your city didn't riot--but I can't hand you a gold star on the collar for doing what civilized people do.

That is, they don't riot when they don't like what is going on in their city.

That you use this as some sort of metric by which to measure the success of your city's government and citizenry only tells me how far your city has truly fallen, and that Durham is not far removed from a 3rd world cesspool where uncivilized behavior is the norm.

Civilized people don't riot. They can't be agitated into rioting.

Civilized people don't even **consider** going out into the streets of their community and burning down the property, homes and businesses of their neighbors--simply because they're upset about a rape. Especially one that never happened.

Think about that for a minute.

You are actually PROUD that riots didn't take place in Durham--as if that is some kind of badge of courage. I agree with you there--it certainly does speak volumes about Durham, outside agitators or not. Unfortunately, none of what it says is positive.

I would be more proud to live in a place where riots were never even considered in the first place.

Perhaps one day you'll understand this simple truth yourself.

Anonymous said...

"Marian was a big factor in turning the City around from a ghetto to the beautiful, great City, it is today."

My God, the lunatics have attacked the forum...

Anonymous said...

Well 12:52AM - I do not know what you know about the DC but it is a great place to live - highly educated people and the culture scene can not be beat. Those of us who lived there for numerous years can see beyond Marion's "Crack" charge. I would have like him to have had a " If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone." Unfortunately, that did not occur. With so many white Americans helping to destroy the country with their own drug use, criticzing Marion is a joke.

Anonymous said...

Hey Mac - free advice is worth nothing. The City is beautiful - Even for the poor folk, it costs a lot of money to live there -not a blue collar city at all. BTW, many of us from the City call the ex-mayor Marian. Visit the City and you will be thrilled with its beauty. BTW, I am white and voted for Marian (as did a lot of others) every election he was in for Mayor.

Anonymous said...

Lunatics - Wow - What an argument. Morons, stupid and idiots is also helpful in making a point.

mac said...

1:44
I agree that DC is better - now that Hizzoner is not able to run his 3rd World Dog'n Pony Show.

I seem top remember the times his administration hired convicted felons for the Dee Cee Pee Dee.