Friday, April 03, 2009

Some Swaggerers Are More Equal Than Others

Four items involving groups of men at Duke and the media:


--headline, N&O, 9 April 2006

2.) “The charges track the noisy passage of a championship lacrosse team with a reputation for a swaggering sense of entitlement and privilege.”

--N&O, 9 April 2006

3.) “But they have a reputation for swagger and rowdiness, according to The Chronicle, the student newspaper, which wrote last week, "Players frequently walk around with girls--sometimes called 'lacrosstitutes' by their peers--in tow," and have been known to kick in doors and urinate out windows. History professor Peter Wood, who often has lacrosse players in his course on Native Americans (who invented the game), complained that team members sometimes signed in to class and then walked out, without bothering to sit down.”

--Newsweek, April 2006

4.)--Chronicle, 2 April 2009

How many people believe that Peter Wood will come out of retirement to denounce the “swagger” of Duke students, as reflected in yesterday's Chronicle ad?


Anonymous said...

Swagger can have diametrically opposed meanings. It can indicate confidence and panache, if you are perceived to be one of the good guys. Otherwise, it would seem to indicate an inappropriate cockiness and arrogance.

It is all about intent, and of course it has been used to smear the lacrosse players. Give me a break...anyone ANYONE sees a college athlete who WANS'T just a little but cocky? Just onother left-handed swipe at the guys for no other reason that a half-baked political agenda that would not survive outside of the confines on Wonderland.

It is special irony that the article KC links to uses the word "swagger" in the first definition.

ES Duke 1990

Gary Packwood said...

In a nation of fat people anyone who is in shape has a swagger.

Even the first lady's arms are a topic of conversation and she is not white or male.

Equal opportunity jealousy at work, IMO.
Obesity Epidemic "Astronomical"

The prognosis for the nation is bad and getting worse as obesity takes its toll on the health of adults and children alike.

Web MD

Anonymous said...

I wonder if MikeKell regrets making that 'swagger' comment to the N&O?

bill anderson said...

Well, as a former collegiate athlete (on a very good team), I will admit to some small amount of swagger. However, having met a number of the lacrosse players and their families, I just don't think "swagger" is a good term for them. They are far nicer and much more polished than either my former teammates or me.

I would like to see proof that these kids were acting in a way that was different from college kids in general. There never was any evidence given otherwise, but that is par for the press these days.

Debrah said...

This is so rich.

Of course people like Peter Wood will have nothing to say.

This gargantuan example of hypocrisy will never show up on his radar screen.

It's just one more example of what takes place everywhere, everyday in the land of no standards and where something is an issue only if the right people make it one.

In the N&O today, this unfortunate story appeared.

This patrolman had to retire under a cloud because someone accused him of using the "N word" at a party.

Oh.....the guy later apologized after it was discovered that it was not his voice which had been taped.

As discussed in the report, people went into the investigation already having drawn their conclusions on the outcome.

Think for a minute if the races had been switched.

The streets of almost every NC city and town would be filled with people from the NC NAACP "marching and protesting such an injustice"!

We'd be reading op-eds in every newspaper and the Rev. Barber would have another YouTube performance in the can.

It's all reached such a sickness beyond imagination.

And by the way, every time something like this report comes up, the N&O disables the comment section.

The insanity has to end.

We need to start looking out for the real victims.

Debrah said...

Moreover, the N&O was quick to move the report about the falsely accused patrolman on down the roster of their front page.

When such an egregious story as this one is in the news and its about an aggrieved minority the headline stays at the top of the page with larger, bolder letters for most of the day.

I have begun to notice such things and it's quite a trend.

To GP--

I'm glad you brought up that topic.

So many are constant apologists for people who are grossly overweight and if someone has a legitimate health problem, then of course they should be encouraged and given support.

However, here's what we all know: 99.99% of the people in this country who are obese or grossly overweight are that way because they eat a lot.

That's a fact!

And when some of these same people go about over-indulging in fits of hysteria for profit or to further their own desires in other areas of their lives, then it is not surprising in the least that observers would mention the fact that they are serial over-indulgers!

Like Timothy Tyson.

Like former Assistant DA Jaeger in that Johnston County report.

Like so many of the Gang of 88.

Like William Barber.

Like John Burness.

And on and on.......

Last evening I was skimming through the print edition of the N&O before tossing it.

(It has become such a thin paper, by the way, that it's hard to believe.)

Online and under the report about the corrupt justice system of Johnston County there was mention of how heavy one of attorneys is and how surprising for a professional to show up in court in jeans and a t-shirt......etc.......

After checking the print edition of that report I can understand why some in the media get upset by observers making comments about the obvious.

There was a separate photo of the group of photographers following the accused assistant district attorney out of the courthouse and snapping shots.

And I get no pleasure when I say that if you were to see the physical condition of EVERY news photographer following that story you would literally be stunned.

All were young people.

EVERY newsperson and EVERY photographer had a huge belly hanging over their belts.

One of the female photographers who was photographed was morbidly obese.

This is not making fun of anyone.

This is just a reminder that this country must do something about obesity.

All of us gain weight on occasion. We don't always look and feel great as a result.

However, when people get to a point where they stop being critical of themselves.....when they stop worrying how they look and feel......and what the extra weight does to their health.....

......then you get to the place where we are today.

Most of the population walking around obese while the do-gooders make excuses for such life-threatening indulgences.

jamil hussein said...

As we know, (Bush) US Department of Justice rejected the call for civil rights investigation in Duke Lacrosse Hoax.

I think recent news about Ted Stevens case confirm what KC has been saying all along, but not in a way he meant it: The unprecedented politicization that has been happening at DOJ.

In Ted Stevens case, DOJ violated the Brady rule in a way reminiscent of Nifong. They actively hid evidence and otherwise compromised the trial. Their only goal was to unseat Stevens in Senate race. Several DOC career attorney and at least one FBI agent were part of this - I think conspiracy is the right word. In a way, this was similar to Valeria Plame incident which was outrageous political invention.

The decision to reject civil rights investigation in Duke Lacrosse Hoax is just another example of the blatant Durham-like politicization at DOJ. Bush administration should have rooted these people out of DOJ - not because they were democrats, but because they were dishonest. This is only getting worse at DOJ. Recently, even DOJ attorneys concluded that DC voting rights bill is unconstitutional but Attorney General Holder overruled them. I can only imagine the outrage had Bush attempted to do this. Sorry, I could not resist this as I've seen several cheap shots here wrt the "politicization of DOJ".

Parallels between Ted Stevens case and Lacrosso Hoax are too similar not to raise the issue here. Today, political justice rules in Amerika. "Anything to win the election" should be the motto of ABA.

Someone should write a book about this!

Anonymous said...

Reminds me of the "sexworker art show" didn't (IIRC) Larry Moneta say there was a difference between having the sexworkers strip and others strip because, well, because he said so... he says they are different, end of discussion.

So the use of swagger, good for some, bad for others - in wonderland this makes perfect sense.

Anonymous said...

bill anderson said:

"I would like to see proof that these kids were acting in a way that was different from college kids in general. There never was any evidence given otherwise, but that is par for the press these days."

Actually, the evidence contradicts the reports. I have had numerous lacrosse players in my courses. They are some of the most serious, hard working, and respectful students I have taught in my 10 years at Duke.

Gary Hull, Ph.D.
Program on Values and Ethics
in the Marketplace
Duke University

Anonymous said...

Hooray! Thank you Dr. Hull.


bill anderson said...


Thanks for making my point even stronger. I have met many of these young men and they seem pretty normal to me.

bill anderson said...

Speaking of "swagger," does anyone remember John Burness? I have not met him, but people tell me that the man is utterly conceited and arrogant and, yes, has a certain swagger about him.

We also remember that John Burness was the direct administration pipeline to the press, telling them that the lacrosse players and their families were "bad actors." Brodhead and Steel knew this was going on, but did nothing, which only can mean they approved of what was happening.

So, at Duke, one can swagger as long as one either is in a PC category or one is in the administration.

And speaking of arrogance and swagger, during the 2007 lacrosse national championship game in Baltimore, Brodhead sat down in the middle of the group of lacrosse parents. Some of the parents told him that he was not welcome there, and Brodhead replied that he could sit where he wanted because he was the president of Duke University.

So, tell me ladies and gentlemen, who has "swaggered for years" at Duke?

Anonymous said...

Dr. Hull,

Thank you for your courageous comments.

My advice is that you start wearing kevlar underpants, because the Klan of 88 probably is going to start their offensive against you any minute...

ES Duke 1990

Anonymous said...

Thank you DR Hull. Now prepare to go to DEFCON 5 and avoid incoming 88's.

Debrah said...

Don't know how we missed news of this riveting event taking place this weekend.

Just received a tip that "Dr." Timothy Tyson will be holding one of his classes at a church in Chapel Hill Sunday morning.

I'm sure all who are able to attend will receive the full message of the power of the Lord.

Debrah said...

I really must come out in defense of John Burness.

He might be arrogant and conceited and have a tendency to use humor in condescending and inappropriate ways; however......

.....he most certainly does not swagger.

I'd call it a kind of waddle.

Similar to Tim Tyson on Buchanan Blvd. during his teaching moment.

Debrah said...

"...Brodhead replied that he could sit where he wanted because he was the president of Duke University."

This is so disgusting.

Under the circumstances, if he wanted to sit among the people whom he helped victimize he should have simply said nothing.

This shows that he's very petty and weak.

During the Gang of 88 conference a few weeks ago, I was able to get in just about everything imaginable that I wanted to say to some of them.

In part because a few like Sarah Deutsch are very "civilized" in their approach.

She sat there and let me talk and didn't interrupt or argue.

But as KC mentioned later, it's probably because Duke's attorneys have told the faculty not to say certain things....or what things they could say.

I told Deutsch that Brodhead was a very weak leader and such a coward to have allowed some of the faculty to create such destruction.

I told her that he was obviously intelligent and that I had heard he wrote decent poetry; however, he should never be allowed to lead anything.

She always smiled and disagreed, but nicely.

Yes, KC is right, no doubt.

If not for the civil suits still in play, their horns would be coming out again.

Anonymous said...

Try to build a mental image of a swagger.
It seems to be, "suck your stomach in, put your shoulders back, hold your head high".
So what posture are these athletes to assume to make their detractors happy?
My guess, "Pot those bellies out, stoop those shoulders, look at your feet".
Subservience is definitely what is required by the "Intellectual Masters".

North of Detroit

Anonymous said...

I want Brodhead to sit "anywhere" except in the President's chair at Duke University. Not only does he repeatedly demonstrate managerial incompetence, but, also, he is socially inept.

Talk about arrogance? Plop yourself down among those you have harmed without cause, accusing their children of aacting privileged, and then claim that you really are privileged because of your title.

What an ass.

Anonymous said...

ES Duke 1990 wrote:

"Dr. Hull,

Thank you for your courageous comments.

My advice is that you start wearing kevlar underpants, because the Klan of 88 probably is going to start their offensive against you any minute..."

You're welcome.

Actually, their "offensive" started in September 2007, right after my program hosted K.C.'s talk at Duke.

Gary Hull

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:35 said:

Now prepare to go to DEFCON 5...

DEFCON 5 is peacetime protocol, DEFCON 1 is expectation of imminent attack. Dr Hull may need to go to DEFCON .00001. ;>)

A Duke Dad said...

Dr. Hull's publications strongly reject the 'knowledge' of the PC Crowd. For example:

Very cogent and incisive portraits of the reality of tribalism (Million Woman March, "Sisters Healing Sisters"), diversity and multiculturalism.

Anonymous said...

Dear Professor Hull,

If I were a student at Duke I would consider it a privilege to take one of your courses.

One Spook said...

Some of you might not have noticed Dr. Gary Hull before. He is the Director of the Program on Values and Ethics in the Marketplace at Duke University. He is a giant oak amidst a sea of noxious weeds at Duke.

I believe he has commented on this Blog in the past. He has also commented in the Duke Chronicle and other venues with respect to the events in the Duke lacrosse hoax.

At all times, his opinions have been respectful, erudite, cogent, and might I add, ethical. His views have advocated for the due process rights of students, including the Duke lacrosse players, and he has made comments relative to the lack of ethical behavior of faculty.

I believe he has promoted the values many of us support in following this Blog.

His personal home page is here, at this URL:

One of Dr. Hull's Op-eds at that page, Diversity and Multiculturalism: The New Racism is an outstanding read.

Thank you for your contributions, Dr. Hull.

One Spook

Anonymous said...

Dear Dr. Hull:

You are a man of courage - rare in the halls of academe these days.
One would hope that the sentiments you express are shared by a majority of your more timid colleagues.

Anonymous said...

AAAAARRRRRRHHHH, no swagger for you, only swagger for me, mate.

Gary Packwood said...

Debrah 4/4/09 said...

...Just received a tip that "Dr." Timothy Tyson will be holding one of his classes at a church in Chapel Hill Sunday morning.
Yes, at the Amity United Methodist Church where, I would imagine, we will slowly begin to see the closing of the gap between the United Methodist Church and the United Methodist Affiliated Universities.

Will they become a single entity?

Should we expect forthcoming publications for the humanities professors to include liturgical publications for use by the United Methodist Church?

Will AABlack United Methodist Churches sponsor book study groups using Crystal's new book with a Duke professor facilitating the discussion?

Debrah said...

Yes, GP.

I'm sure that someone from the Gang of 88 or mascot Tyson will try to get out the "real story".

Because as we know......"She was somebody's daughter, and somebody's sister, and somebody's mother, and somebody's sweetheart....."


Another sunny Sunday and what I find in the news is not very interesting, locally or nationally.

I started to paste an article from the H-S but it was too long.

It was a detailed account of a SC man who is now 66 years old who had been a lifelong racist and overall bad guy.

No need for more details.

We've all read this stuff ad nauseum.

Now he's a changed man and is going about apologizing for his past deeds....blah, blah, blah.....

......yada, yada, yada.

I am no longer moved by such tired tales and wish some of these people would keep their issues to themselves.

Change for the good.


Apologize to people if you've done something to harm them.

Just cease making this a "big news story".

Frankly, I see very little difference in the deliberately harmful black racists of today like the Gang of 88 and what we know of the old KKK tales.

The media and those with a race agenda are now working overtime in order to cook up any issue they can because, in reality, their issues do not exist in the year 2009.

Ditzy ideas like "Two Nations" are concocted because these people so badly need it to be true.

I am reminded of Reade Seligmann's moving account of how he was treated by the people who owned and ran a restaurant near Duke's campus where he had been a regular customer.

After the false charges were brought against the guys, not only were they tormented on campus, but in area establishments.

The restaurant proprietors, who were black, shunned him and wouldn't have anything to do with him.

These were people with whom he had previously had a very warm relationship as he was a regular at their place.

With no evidence of guilt at all, so many like those people behaved that way.

A self-indulgent and psychologically harmful way to treat any young person.

I wonder if Reade, Collin, and David should do as people like the late John Hope Franklin and others have done who use every slight they've ever experienced as a ticket for a story and a paycheck.

Keeping the hype going until the lacrosse players have grandchildren to whom they can pass down their "grievances".

Seriously, if I were a black person in America in the year 2009, I'd be doing a lot of soul-searching.

And not of the Motown variety.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the problem with the Lacrosse players is that they were "uppity".

bill anderson said...

I have no idea of the lacrosse players are "uppity," although I never have detected that from my association with them and their families. However, I can say that they are honest, which is much more than one can say for the hierarchy of the administration and faculty at Duke University, and certainly more honest than the political hierarchy of Durham. For that matter, can anyone say that honest people run the Durham County DA's office?

Is there anyone more "uppity" and self-indulgent than John Burness or Richard Brodhead or Karla Holloway? Is there anyone more nasty or arrogant than Houston Baker? So, let us put things into perspective here.

Panacea said...

Both Debrah and GP have nailed it,

The United Methodist Churches already sponsors this type of group studies.
Here where Tim Tyson stated "he hopes to convert people through his course. If he teaches it for five years, he said, "we'll have more than a thousand people who have gone through this same experience,who have the same cultural and historical grounding for understanding the world.A thousand crazy people can change the world."

OMG! A thousand more crazy people being taught more of Tim Tyson lies.

I am sure Tim will convince Crystal, he's the one to spread the word.

Debrah said...

The article on Tyson at the Methodist conference from December 2005 from "Panacea" is one I've never seen before.

And we've all seen our share of articles about this sordid character.

What stands out first is that orange shirt with the brown jacket.

Preachers can be racey!

In December 2005 Tyson must have been on a roll. Imagine how feverish with excitement he was when the Hoax first became news the following Spring.

Timmy needs to find another line from the Scripture for a new book.

"Mikey and Us Done Sign Our Names"

Notice the language Tyson uses when talking with other preachers, who, themselves, live for this emotional stuff.

He talks about his "Diddy" as a liberal minister who did not actively participate in the civil rights movement of the '60s when it was its most heated.

Wonder why a self-described "Eleanor Roosevelt Democrat" like Diddy Tyson wasn't moved to become active until he and his son decided to use their story for decades and make money off it.

Notice how Tyson only uses quotes from the prosecutor when he tells his story.

Notice that he didn't tell the ministers at that conference that the unfortunate victim used unfortunate judgment by asking another man's wife the obscene question:

"Do you want to f***?"

Notice that Tyson never brings up the evidence that the victim came at his assailants with a knife.

I'm glad that this was brought to my attention as it shows that Tyson is a serial fabricator.

Whatever happened among those people all those decades ago is most unfortunate; however, when telling any such story Tyson would do well to give his preacher friends the panoramic view.

It's so much more godly.

Perhaps in light of the evidence, there were myriad reasons why the jury acquiited the accused in Tyson's tale.

If Tyson wants to show that his subjects were "racists", then fine.

But he should not be allowed to push such a tale without people knowing its origin and the full story.

Tyson must be going through a dry spell lately since his "big book" on the rape of a "hardworking black student and mother" didn't pan out for him.

Debrah said...

Banality elevated to an art form.

Debrah said...

Something funny was found on the blog BlueNC---albeit too late for me to have a successful "give and take" with the commenter---from a few months ago when our dear Melody Ivins was making her rounds defending her good friend Tyson.

Talk about rabid. Melody Ivins should be hired as a spokesperson for the Gang of 88. She spent this same evening searching Diva YouTube videos in order to leave smutty comments.

This is typical Gang of 88 behavior on display----hide and attack......attack and hide.



Has anyone ever heard of a local "Debrah Correll"? I was beginning a blog about author Tim Tyson's upcoming appearance in Winston Salem--ran across some interesting comments from her in a N&O blog
:) Just curious. BTW I have never seen Tyson speak and havent yet read Blood Done Sign My Name.

Submitted by MelodyLynn on Sat, 02/07/2009 - 8:33pm.

Debrah is part of a small and determined group of Tyson-haters who devote a lot of time and energy to trashing him every time his name appears in the press. They take violent exception to remarks he made during the Duke Lacrosse case, and apparently think that if they say enough nasty things about him we will too. Debrah imagines herself a wit and a writer. Her blog, Diva World, is, well, probably much more than most people would ever want to know about her. If she weren't so smugly vicious I'd feel sorry for her.

Anonymous said...

At least your stalker done sign her name, Diva!

Anonymous said...

One Spook said at 6:08 PM, 4/4/09...

Some of you might not have noticed Dr. Gary Hull before. He is the Director of the Program on Values and Ethics in the Marketplace at Duke University. He is a giant oak amidst a sea of noxious weeds at Duke....

His personal home page is here, at this URL:

One of Dr. Hull's Op-eds at that page, Diversity and Multiculturalism: The New Racism is an outstanding read.

I like this Hull essay even better.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 4:49

Thanks for the link to the Hull essay. It was a great read - and he is correct on all points. At the school at which I teach we no longer have honor assemblies at the end of each quarter to recognize those individuals who have achieved first (all A's) or second (A's and B's) honors because it would discourage those who have worked hard but have not been academically successful enough to make honors. Just one more example that illustrates Dr. Hull's point.

Anonymous said...

The more I read about (and from) Professor Hull the more I like.

I'd be curious to know if he has met any resistance from the Duke administration or his fellow colleagues concerning his publications and ideology.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"The more I read about (and from) Professor Hull the more I like."

Thank you.

"I'd be curious to know if he has met any resistance from the Duke administration or his fellow colleagues concerning his publications and ideology."

"Resistance"? How about hostility, condemnation, and attempts to kick me out of Duke -- some of which have been chronicled, others not. To be fair, there are one or two administrators who have come to my defense. They are the ones who believe that a university should educate (as opposed to propagandize), and who seem respect intellectual diversity. Tragically, they are in the minority.

Gary Hull, Ph.D.
Program on Values and Ethics
in the Marketplace
Duke University

Debrah said...

TO (9:35 AM)--

He already said that he has.

Beginning when he and Ken Larrey organized the lecture by KC in September of 2007.

Anonymous said...

To Dr. Hull:

I am glad that one or two administrators have come to your defense (at least all is not lost). Those who have condemned you or tried to have you kicked out ought to be ashamed.

There are many posting here who hold you in high regard. Hopefully, that dulls some of the hostility you have received from those you work with.

To Debrah:

I did see where Dr. Hull had put the word offensive in quotes but I wasn't exactly sure what he meant. His response answered my question (it's sad that his fellow colleagues feel threatened by a difference of opinion).

Anonymous said...

Dr. Hull:

Keep fighting the good fight - one has to believe that in the end, truth and honesty will prevail. One can only hope to see it in one's lifetime.