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Comments and analysis about the Duke/Nifong case (2006-2014).
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- "From the Scottsboro Boys to Clarence Gideon, some of the most memorable legal narratives have been tales of the wrongly accused. Now “Until Proven Innocent,” a new book about the false allegations of rape against three Duke lacrosse players, can join these galvanizing cautionary tales . . , Taylor and Johnson have made a gripping contribution to the literature of the wrongly accused. They remind us of the importance of constitutional checks on prosecutorial abuse. And they emphasize the lesson that Duke callously advised its own students to ignore: if you’re unjustly suspected of any crime, immediately call the best lawyer you can afford."--Jeffrey Rosen, New York Times Book Review
Links
Motions and Documents
- Attorney General's Report
- DNA motion
- Lineup motion
- Supplementary lineup motion
- Change of venue motion
- Bar amended complaint/Nifong response
- December 15 hearing
- State Bar v. Nifong
- Brewer removal motion
- Nifong December 28 letter to Bar
- Nifong January 16 letter to Bar
- Group of 88 statement (removed from Duke website)
- Group of 88 membership
- Transcript of relevant sections, April 4 "identification" "procedure"
53 comments:
I know a couple of people who are attending Brown.
Sounds like a better school than Duke.
Go Reade!
Excellent.
An interesting contrast.
While many at Duke, including members of the G88, were intent on destroying innocent people, to suit their personal political agendas, Reade and his classmates at Brown are doing good things to help people.
Unrepentant members of the Duke G88are evil, and should not be entrusted with teaching positions anywhere in our society.
H-S letter:
White people have issues
This is in response to D. Johnson's letter of Nov. 22. On another front, I am sick of white folks stealing billions from not only their employees, but from America, and hiding that stolen money in off-shore accounts.
Sometimes they go to country-club prisons, if they go to prison at all. Sometimes they just pay a fine (how sweet after destroying peoples lives and screwing up our economy). When released, they live a life of luxury while their employees suffer and try to figure ways to recoup college savings, retirement, find new jobs, and pay their mortgage.
And last time I checked, whites were committing murders too, and in some of the most heinous ways. By the way, crime bosses related to the mafia and other organized crime families and wealthy white people have scared and paid off witnesses in the past and continue to do so today. So don't think it's just black folks.
K. BUMGARDNER
Durham
November 28, 2007
Reade is a remarkable young man.
I would have expected nothing less from Reade.
Good show, Reade.
::
GP
A disproportionate percent of those exonerated because of the work of the Innocence Project are minorities. A disproportionate percent of those who remain in prison are minorities.
Of those still in prison, a shocking number are innocent. The largest single source of wrongful convictions has turned out to be inaccurate eyewitness identifications. Other reasons for conviction of innocent people include prosecutorial misconduct, lying witnesses, and pro-prosecution judges who pretend to believe lying policemen.
A disproportionate percent of those in prison today, who are innocent but who cannot prove it by DNA testing, are minorities.
Therefore, African American Studies departments on campuses all across the country are rallying around Reade Seligman and the Brown Lacross Team's efforts to exonerate innocent prisoners!
These scholars recognized long ago and internalized the truth of Martin Luther King's famous proclamation that, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"! Therefore, when justice is on the line, their scholarship has taught them to SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER!
They are. Aren't they?
Jim Peterson
Martin Luther King's famous proclamation that, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"!
**********************************************
Unfortunately, this didn't work at Duke.
And now.....after all that we know to be the truth, there are still those at Duke who do not care about what happened to the lacrosse players.
Even those who are supposedly connected to the Innocence Project.
By the way, I literally despise that MLK quote. Mainly because of its lack of real application.
So many historical quotes are sappy-fare designed to elevate the dead to a level they do not really deserve......when you dig deep into their lives.
I have a simple proposal to make:
The Innocence Project has demonstrated, by winning the exoneration of more than 200 wrongly convicted innocent people, largely minorities, that it is effective at protecting minorities from injustice.
I posit that the Duke AAS department cannot demonstrate it has any value to society of any kind, much less to minorities.
Therefore, I suggest the Duke AAS department be defunded immediately and the money saved donated to the Innocence Project.
Considering the huge amounts of money involved, repeated year after year, such a move would, statistically, result in several hundred innocent minorities being released from prison in the next few years.
Can anyone think of a reason why men and women of good faith should not immediately work to implement this simple proposal?
Jim Peterson
There must be a way to insert the word "Winner" inside the Weblog Awards box.
KC was not just a "Finalist". He won in his category.
To Debra:
My view is it is very wrong to be cynical about the idea behind MLK's quote ("injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere").
It is not sappy. It is true.
That MLK said it is, to me, one of the fine ironies of the Duke hoax and its enablers. It concerns me that the idea behind the quote is discredited because MLK said it. What if JFK had said it? Or Winston Churchill?
In truth, it is no more than a version of the Golden Rule (i.e., "do unto others as you would have them do unto you").
If everyone lived the motto, we all would be better off. For starters, there never would have been a Duke hoax. There could not have been. Think about it.
Jim Peterson
Brown is a very different school from Duke, no surprise that Reade is free and successful there.
I wish him future success and happiness along with the other guys and Coach Pressler. They have been irreparably harmed by Duke and Durham, whatever they receive from the lawsuits is not enough.
Jack says,
One big opportuniy lost in the Duke lacrosse hoax was the chance for factions on the political right and left to unite against injustice by the criminal justice system.
Instead of switching, in the lacrosse case, its long held position supporting victim rights and abuses, the NAACP could have extended an olive branch ans said to the white community: "Now you see injustice in action, we have faces it for years. We feel for these unjustly accused players and we would like to work with you to fight injustice against anyone white or black. Please join us." Of course the NAACP and far left organizations and individuals (Main Stream Media and Gang of 88) instead did just the opposit and defamed the players at every opportunity.
The Innocent project is a strong step in the right direction that the full range of political spectrum can and should support.
Reade is indeed a special young man who is growing from his unfortunate experience.
TO Jim Peterson--
I agree with your (12:03 PM).
I really don't care who said it...it isn't practiced by those who remind the world every day of their "victimhood".
When I offer opinions like this one, it isn't that I am picking and choosing who said what. Just that so much of the embroidery tacked onto historical figures, is just that.
I have no doubt that MLK would be disturbed by the state of and the dependency of black America today.
Like JFK and RFK, his vision of equality was not that of bestowing a never-ending free ride on a certain group or that a certain group should spend a lifetime on a cosmic justice quest.
As Bill Cosby so eloquently opines, this is what we have today.
Those of us who have actually been strong supporters of the black community have begun to see that they need to do the changing....not society.
I have only to think of all that we have witnessed from Durham's black community. Almost a total indifference about the Lacrosse Hoax...with many even exhibiting glee.
Even black professionals who are on the editorial staff of newspapers.
And you constantly hear complaints regarding the high rate of young black men in prison.
No doubt.
They also commit the most crime......but what do we hear from the black community?
Are there daily efforts--really--to combat this erosive pathology? Say, with the same frequency as the complaints regarding the huge number of young black men in prison?
The answer is no.
I am thrilled when a group such as the Innocence Project is successful in freeing those who were put into prison for a crime they did not commit.
However, something very similar should be established to fight against the rampant criminal mentality among so many youth.
For example, you only need to read the daily news to see that this is an epidemic that the black community does not wish to confront in a meaningful way.
That's why they loved the cooked-up narrative that the rich white boys might have raped a black woman.....because the total opposite happens with such frequency.
These people do not want to live by the motto you offer. That is just a sad fact.
And it gives me no pleasure to state the obvious.
Jim in San Diego said...
To Debra[h]:
My view is it is very wrong to be cynical about the idea behind MLK's quote ("injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere").
It is not sappy. It is true.
It's not just sappy, it's silly. Without injustice, we can't even conceive of justice. It would be like trying to have "up" without "down". Also, injustice is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?
RRH
The fact that the Brown Lacrosse team is doing something that positively impacts society serves to set in even starker relief the fact that Grand Imperial Wizard Wahneema Lubiano and her Klan of 88+ sit around on their unusually ample backsides, doing absolutely nothing that in any way, shape, or form, might serve to benefit society.
Jim in San Diego, Inre: "...A disproportionate percent of those in prison today, who are innocent but who cannot prove it by DNA testing, are minorities..."
One wonders what the odds are that the guilty party (roaming free) is a minority or possibly in prison due to another prosecution.
Jim in SD. inre "...Can anyone think of a reason why men and women of good faith should not immediately work to implement this simple proposal?..."
b/c the odds are that the perps were minorities and that runs contrary to the bigoted, racist self-interest of the AAAs depts. and the NAACP.
I suggest the Duke AAS department be defunded immediately and the money saved donated to the Innocence Project....
Can anyone think of a reason why men and women of good faith should not immediately work to implement this simple proposal?
Jim Peterson
None whatsoever.
Unfortunately, the power to take such action is not in the hands of "men and women of good faith", but of Duke's faculty and administration.
Jim - I worked felony detentions for five years as an RN. Absolutly, every inmate will swear they are innocent. I belive in the cops and justice system, inspite of Nifong.
"And now.....after all that we know to be the truth, there are still those at Duke who do not care about what happened to the lacrosse players."
...because they appear to be without conscience; and that, to me, is what is truly frightening and disturbing about them.
To RRH and perhaps others:
I do not understand the comment, "without injustice we cannot have justice". It sounds like a catchy phrase which is a bit too clever.
Justice cannot be in the eye of the beholder. That would make justice relative. That is what the hoax enablers practice -"justice for me, but not for thee".
How about this: start with, "All men are created equal"; then, add: "all men are equal under the law"; then, add some form of the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
This describes in three sentences most of what civilization has accomplished in 2500 years.
It cannot be that "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is silly, or sappy. The best of our civilization is based in some significant part on this measure of mutual consideration.
"Mankind censures injustice, fearing that they may be the victims of it" - (Plato, a long time ago). (The Golden Rule). "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"(MLK). (The Golden Rule.)
"We must remember that...any injustice...is a wedge designed to attack our civilization" (Franklin D. Roosevelt, not so long ago)-(The Golden Rule).
There are some absolutes, some first principles. Justice is not relative.
Jim Peterson
"I know a couple of people who are attending Brown. Sounds like a better school than Duke."
It is.
To anonymous at 2:18
It is true that most incarcerated felons proclaim their innocence.
It is also true that a disturbingly large number of those claims are true. Confidence in the justice system must be tempered by facts.
To date, more than 200 convicted felons have been exonerated by the Innocence Project. That is to say, 200 human beings were found to be not guilty of the crimes for which they were put in prison. A number of these were on death row when their exoneration occurred.
Most spent years in prison. Many spent decades, including virtually their entire adult life. They lost their family, friends, reputation, opportunity, and liberty - AND THEY WERE INNOCENT ALL ALONG.
Virtually the only way a convicted felon can be exonerated is with DNA. Otherwise, the burden of proof is just too high - because so many have so much confidence in the justice system. This means many, many innocent people remain in prison, because we know logically that DNA exoneration does not nearly find all the falsely convicted.
Several years ago the Governor of Illinois (google it) had to remit all death sentences in Illinois because over many years too many death row convictions were overturned by irrefutable evidence of innocence. The chance that in this country we have not executed innocent people is virtually nil. For the State to execute innocent people approaches absolute evil.
A select number of counties in Texas have had a whole series of death row inmates released because of proof of their actual innocence. (google it). A good start, if you are committed to learn the facts, is with the website of the Innocence Project.
No, it is a great mistake to have too great a confidence in the justice system. What was truly extraordinary about the Duke Hoax was the incredible skill of a phalanx of the top defense attorney in N. Carolina, backed up by enormous financial resources.
Even then, exoneration was a close run thing. What if Brad Bannister had not been sharp enough to read the DNA story from the raw data? What if the N.C. Bar had not voted to file a complaint against Nifong (The vote to file the complaint passed by a single vote).
We might yet have had a trial in the Duke hoax case. We might have had a conviction (because that is always a risk with a jury, particular one which is polarized). In the usual case, with the ordinary defendant faced with the NC judicial system in March of 2006, there would highly likely been a conviction - OF AN INNOCENT PERSON.
Jim Peterson
Wisconsin, "Think Respect Program” DOA
(“Diverse-o-crats”, a new word?)
The American Thinker
November 27, 2007
A Quiet Defeat for Political Correctness
By Charles J. Sykes
Maybe this is how political correctness ends; not with a bang, but with a whimper.
Across the country, universities that had abandoned in loco parentis in the 1960s because it was too oppressive and intrusive have replaced it with in loco Big Brother programs of political and cultural re-education.
The diverse-o-crats assume that college students are unable to deal with issues like racism on their own. But the reality, he wrote, is that "we have the ability to do so."
Last fall, for instance, the University of Wisconsin unveiled an ambitious "diversity" campaign designed to root out inappropriate speech and behaviors on campus.
The Think Respect...
But, as lack of enthusiasm and disuse of these programs ....
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/a_quiet_defeat_for_political_c_1.html
Everyone must participate in the latest Diva poll.
I'm serious.....and determined to find the answer to this question.
LIS!
Anonymous said...
"I know a couple of people who are attending Brown. Sounds like a better school than Duke."
Brown has certainly treated Reade Seligmann better than Duke ever did but I was actually quite surprised when Reade chose to attend Brown. Brown, at least a couple of years ago, had the reputation of being one of the most PC schools in the Ivy League.
Brown is definitely different from Duke and Providence, a city that has seen a lot of renewal in recent years, is definitely better than Durham.
I have often wondered if the lacrosse fiasco could have occurred anywhere outside of Durham. I think most universities today host there own versions of the G88 but I really can't think of a single other city that even comes close to resembling Durham.
Durham provided the perfect environment for the G88 bacteria to incubate and thrive.
CHRIS DAVIS, HARVARD '73
The radical left's primary ideological focus has always been colectivism, i.e., state control of private property, over which it has consistently and clumsily tossed a thin veil of "humanitarism, equality, workers' rights", etc.
It would be both naive and innacurate to impugn the radical left for a primary lack of concern for injustice, when the record, stretching as it does, from Rosa Luxemburg to Pol Pot, speaks for itself(cf:"The Black Book of Communism", which neatly summarizes the 100m deaths attributed to Marxist-Leninism and caused a huge debate in French intellectual circles when it was published)
So, ironically, Ms. Potter and the other house organs shouldn't be faulted here, they are acting in a totally predictable fashion!!!
Anonymous 2:18 said...
Jim - I worked felony detentions for five years as an RN. Absolutly, every inmate will swear they are innocent. I belive in the cops and justice system, inspite of Nifong.
::
You are teaching us apparently that nursing school still does not require coursework in logic or interferential statistics?
You guys just go with your gut!
Hooboy
::
GP
NY Times Freezes Hiring
"...and has cut a small number of newsroom jobs...
...The company's shares have fallen by about 30 percent in the past 12 months...
...Shares fell further on Wednesday after Bank of America analyst Joe Arns cut his rating on the shares to "sell" from "neutral," "
Ahem, maybe it's because they are no longer trusted? It's the content thingy? (See Duke lacrosse)
Jim Peterson 11:43
There's a saying in the black community - about the black community - that they're like a barrel of crabs: when one crab makes a good attempt to escape, the other crabs pull it back down and devour it.
Such are the 88. They have no voice of encouragement, only discouragement; they are crabs in a barrel, whether they are white, black, male or female. Their only power is to pull others down, to keep others from escaping. That's what happens when no one is shown how to escape, only that someone else is to blame.
I agree that the money spent on their studies could be better spent on things that encourage, enlighten and uplift, elucidate and enoble. Such qualities are rate elements among the Klan of 88.
88 crabs in a barrel.
Jim Peterson,
On the day when one of the 1000s of young California law students can find an innocent person who was executed by Texas, we will never hear the end of it. California being the home of Hollywood and silliness, we will have six or seven made-for-TV movies, PLUS three big-bucks productions staring Tom Cruise and Jodie Foster and Jack Nicholson.
In the meanwhile, if you don't like the Death Penalty, don't mess with Texas.
*smile*
Anonymous said...
"I know a couple of people who are attending Brown. Sounds like a better school than Duke."
It is.
11/28/07 3:54 PM
-------------------------------------
Isn't.
2007 THES latest world ranking:
Duke 13th
Brown 32nd
2008 USN&WR latest US ranking
Duke 8th
Brown 14th
11/28/07 AP Men's Basketball
Duke 7th and rising
Brown ?????????
2:18 here Alan Gell who spent five years on death row for a crime he did not committ, is now going back to jail for a statuary rape charge with a fifteen year old. I don't agree that a "disturbing amount of the inmates are innocent." Just my humble opinion. I do believe in the justice system and when you need a cop, nothing else will do.nou
I have to agree with Jim Peterson, though no justice system will ever be perfect, we have to realize that in any profession (I am a physician) there are good, great, mediocore and awful representatives of that particular profession. The justice system is no exception to this. When flaws are uncovered in a system, there must be chagnes made to improve those flaws, it is the only way to ensure the public is safe. We simply cannot have innocent people going to jail, it is a crime itself. The Duke case brought to the public eye the flaws in our prosecutorial system. To believe Mr. Nifong is the only prosecutor to have tried to railroad known innocent people is simply nieve. We need to look at how prosecutors pursue cases and we now know that there must be checks on their power. True honesty has become a rare commodity, and it is what is lacking in many professions today in my humble opinion.
BDay (ps.. Jim I too live in Ssan Diego)
Jason Whitlock just posted a fantastic column about Taylor's murder. Basically, he said it was time for black people to quit blaming white people for the black on black murders.
Whole article is at Foxnews. Causing a HUGE stir. Mostly surprised and supportive comments.
Is it possible that some people are really going to wake up and take responsibiity and change some things???
Thanks for a great story, K.C.! It is great to see Reade making a positive difference. That Brown Lax coach also sounds like a difference-maker. I'm now a Brown fan. MOO! Gregory
Jim Peterson has it exactly right, IMO!
Totally agree with "john" and others. As K.C. knows, I have been following this case for as long as it has been going on. As a former lax player at Duke and a lawyer, I am appalled at the entire episode. I am even more appalled by the reluctance of people to give a mea culpa and act mature enough to admit their fault. Law should not be a vehicle to persecute. We should learn from our mistakes. I am proud to be associated with K.C. and his wonderful and in depth discussion of the lessons learned from this travesty. Claire Potter is just another reason to continue our vigilance and advocacy. Thank you K.C.
TriLawyer
Instead of raising money for the Innocence Project, the Klan of 88 et al attempts to jail people like Reade Seligmann and his teammates, based entirely upon race, class and appearance? They wanted to throw them all out of school?
What a stunning contrast with the Duke team, which helped disadvantaged kids learn how to read - and now Brown's Lacrosse team, doing a fundraiser for the Innocence Project?
I wonder how the 88 crabs will be spending their time this time next year? In a barrel, as usual?
Meanwhile, people like Reade will be helping to pull others out of the barrel.
Anonymous 11/28/07 7:09 PM once again demonstrates the uselessness of the USNWR rankings.
To: anonymous at 6:22 "if you dont like the death penalty, dont mess with Texas -smile-"
I abhor the death penalty for innocent people. Don't you?
-'frown'
Jim Peterson
Jason Whitlock is a common sense type of fellow who isn't afraid to confront hard truths -- even when they're politically incorrect. If the black community in the U.S. spent more time listening to people like Mr. Whitlock, and less time listening to race hustlers like Sharpton and Jackson, we'd all be better off.
BTW, TMZ.com has an article featuring some black wrestler named Rampage, who suggests that Redskin Sean Taylor died from his leg wound only because he was black. Rampage recommends that black people who call 911 try to sound "white" if they want to get help quickly. Apparently Rampage does not understand that a severed artery (whether the artery is located in the leg or anywhere else in the body) is frequently fatal because the person suffering from such an injury will usually bleed to death in about 4 minutes (and this is true, Mr. Rampage, regardless of the color of the person's skin). Instead of implying that the EMT's who treated Mr. Taylor were racists, Rampage should be commending them for their skill in getting Mr. Taylor to the hospital alive.
10:42 am
The femoral artery is a HUGE artery! ("Rampage" should try dissecting it sometime, to see for himself.) That's why someone with a broken femur can die - and quickly.
Apparently, "Rampage" hasn't taken classes at Delaware or other institutions for fine indoctrination, since he would have learned that a racist isn't about what a person does: it defines the color of a person's skin. If you are a racist, you have to be white.
So perhaps the solution to Rampage's problem could be solved, (in the event of an emergency of his own) if he called and requested "non-racists" only to be sent to his domicile.
I hope they find the killer(s).
Taylor was really turning things around. Let's hope that whomever they charge won't need nor deserve the services of any Innocence Project.
Reade Seligmann - Our Phoenix
Quote: “I appreciate the support and loyalty of my teammates and coaches at Duke. I will miss them. I know that they will understand why I cannot return to Duke”
A Google Search for “Reade Seligmann” = 81,000 Entries
Google has a “I’m Feeling Lucky” search. If you enter Reade Seligmann, you get one entry,
D-I-W, that is indeed lucky!
(Many of the articles are false and degrading, laced with the first hysterical reports, there are hundreds of pictures of him. Many bloggers were also writing of his guilt, and those comments remain. Thank goodness for D-I-W and the others that steadfastly looked for the truth.
While reading UPI, I actually experience heartache for these young men and their families. That is why it is such a good book, now that I think about it.)
(How sad is this?)
Seligmann Not Worth Hassle
The Cornell Daily Sun
March 1, 2007 - 1:55am
By Josh Perlin
Prior to Reade going to Duke, we had recruited him here at Cornell and thought the world of him as a young man,” Tambroni said. “We did speak with him after this whole thing went down at Duke, in regards to the potential of a transfer — that was prior to his accusation by Nifong and the legal system down there.”
What would have happened if Reade came to Cornell? The team, the University, collegiate lacrosse — anything and everything at Cornell — would have been under incredible scrutiny from the media and the public. I would hope that coaches and universities across the Ancient Eight would seen this potential and [decide it’s not worth recruiting him.]
http://cornellsun.com/node/21780
Any idea what happened to olde Josh? He will be carring this forever. With any luck, he will never meet a Duke Lax supporter.
A tidbit for the "shockingly innocent" crowd. White Alan Gell may not have been guilty of murder but is of statutory rape of a fifteen year old. some folk are trying justify his "rape" by comparing him to Romeo and Juliet. What a joke - and folk want to complain about the justice system and cops.
"Anonymous said...
A tidbit for the "shockingly innocent" crowd. White Alan Gell may not have been guilty of murder but is of statutory rape of a fifteen year old. some folk are trying justify his "rape" by comparing him to Romeo and Juliet. What a joke - and folk want to complain about the justice system and cops.
11/29/07 4:50 PM"
Anonymous at 4:50 PM --
You have managed to communicate effectively that you think the people you refer to as "the 'shockingly innocent' crowd" are doing something wrong, but you have not managed to fully communicate what.
What do you think the "the 'shocking innocent' crowd" should do:
-- Should they give Alan Gell a free pass to commit any crimes he wishes, because of the misconduct against him?
-- Should they, because Alan Gell has committed some actual crimes, look the other way when the State tries to send Gell to Death Row, ignoring evidence from 17 different witnesses that Gell was in jail at the time the victim was fatally injured and evidence that their key witness is manufacturing her evidence of guilt?
Whichever it is, why would you recommend this course of action over the simple course of: prosecuting Alan Gell for the crimes he actually did commit, and not prosecuting him for crimes that he could not have committed?
4:50 here - I am not sure what you are writting. That is my recommendation that he be prosecuted for the crimes he did commit. No question, Gell had a bad time when he was covicted by a jury of his peers for murder. I think the confusion comes in here. There was an earlier discussion about the justice system, whose convicted,jails, inmates, etc. At that time it was posted there are a "shocking number of innocent" people in jail. I disagreed with that. My post today was a continuation of the prior debate. Sorry, I did not make myself clear. Although, you may still disagree with my point.
Congratulations to Reade on the Harvard interview and the charity run for the Innocence Project.From what I am hearing, Reade is cutting quite a swath through a certain population of Brown - not all of which are lacrosse players.
Reade seems to have his mojo back.
to: several anons concerning Gell.
Gell is guilty of the crime of statutory rape. He is sent to prison for five years. He is not one of the many innocent people who are in jail today.
That he is convicted of statutory rape, a crime he did commit, does not justify convicting him of murder years ago, a crime he did not commit. Nor does is justify convicting innocent people of crimes today.
The evidence that there are many innocent people in jail starts with the 200+ convicted felons who have been found innocent because of DNA, through the Innocence Project. Since essentially only those who can prove their innocence with DNA are released, and only a small portion of all crimes involve leaving DNA behind, we may logically infer that, in the larger population of prisoners there is a proportionate number of innocent people who simply cannot prove their innocence.
We know this because the conclusion logically follows from the verifiable facts.
Therefore, the conclusion there are a shccking number of innocent people in prison. However, the word "shocking" is imprecise. Everyone's shock threshold is different.
Most prisoners, as a percentage, are guilty. However, there are so many people in jail, the absolute number of innocent people in jail is large.
Jim Peterson
200 innocent in hundreds of thousands of inmate is about 0.00001. Not large at all,
To: anon 11:56
You have not read or understood my argument.
We might communicate better over a cup of coffee. It has not worked here.
Jim Petersn
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