Saturday, November 25, 2006

Highlighting Comments

Two excellent comments from yesterday’s thread that deserve more attention:

Gustafson’s comments are important. Not only to the Professors of the left prejudge the students, they also prejudge the source of the outrage of the alums while also revealing shocking ignorance about important legal trends. I am a Duke graduate (as it my brother and other members of my family). Long before this case arose, as an attorney I was well aware of the difficulties of the legal system and the mistreatment of multiple defendants. Despite being a white corporate lawyer,I volunteered my time to assist many minority defendants who I believed had been mistreated or overcharged. In my own state of Illinois, we had an epidemic of prosecutorial and police misconduct that resulted both in the conviction of the innocent and, by definition, the failure to find and incarcerate the. As in North Carolina, (Project Innocence) all walks of society worked to remedy these issues and the prosecutors are far more open to consideration of error.

Just today, for example, an inmate incarcerated in 1992 is having his case re-opened because of a DNA match.

So, when those of us who (as lawyers and law professors) apply these well known and decade old issues to an obvious misjudgment to have profoundly ignorant and unqualified English professors examine the issues through their “rubric” of gender and race it is laughable.

The prejudice is assuming that people who are upset and outraged by Nifong’s treatment never cared about these issues before, never thought about these issues before, and only care because they are lacrosse players is a window into their own limited mind.

In my own case, I brought no predisposition to the matter. I know full well that the Duke Campus, as with all campuses nationally, has some people capable of criminal acts and that alcohol abuse is a serious issue at Duke and elsewhere. Anyone who has studied and worked in the legal system knows full well what is happening based on no more than Nifong’s own statements.

So, to those people who claim that the outrage is a lens into the prejudice of the people upset at the treatment of the lacrosse players, you could not be more wrong.


The second comment:

One humorous aspect of the Hoax -- if such a train wreck could be seen as funny -- is the studied indifference of the Hoax’s enablers to D.A. Nifong’s narrative. Recall, he claims that the three rapists were aided by three additional lacrosse team members, who pulled apart the alleged victim and exotic dancer Kim Roberts, hustling Roberts into a bedroom so that the rapists could attend to the A.V. in the bathroom.

Thus, if the rape happened, there are three unindicted co-conspirators at large. Who are they? Why haven’t they been arrested? Did yet other teammates enable their actions?

The Group of 88 and their fellow-travelers have no interest in this issue. Of course: bringing up the unindicted three players only highlights the absurdity of the felony charges as an account of events that actually transpired, rather than as a signifier of resentments based on class, race, and social status.

Yet this side issue shows that evaluating the quality of police work becomes impossible once law enforcement becomes the standard-bearer for Social-Justice-based vengefulness. If this were a real case, there would be tremendous (and justified) pressure to indict the Other Three. Once we accept that this is kabuki, there’s no need for additional witches to try--Seligmann, Evans, and Finnerty will do.

How many other cases has the DPD “cleared” as ably as they have solved the Lacrosse Rape? Not a question I would be comfortable asking if I was a Durham resident.


Anonymous said...

Your use of the word "Kabuki" is stellar. Coincidentally, when discussing this case with a relative in Seattle recently, I called this embarrassing hoax "Kabuki theatre". It reminds me of the grande and affected dramas of Kabuki actors I frequently saw when living in Tokyo.

At first, you are puzzled by their unmeasured histrionics. Then you realize that the whole play will continue like that......highlighted with layered make-up and gawdy detail.

This case is analogous to that experience.

From the start, the shock of Nifong's histrionic slander, false scenarios, and physical gyrations before the national media was like watching very bad Kabuki theatre.

Trouble is, the curtain is yet to come down on this hideous charade.

Debrah Correll

Anonymous said...

The second post is quite illuminating. At the beginning of this affair, Nifong threatened to charge the entire team with aiding and abetting the "rape." Now he charges no one else.

Yet, a "rape" of this sort could not go on unnoticed. Believe me, there is much more to this whole decision not to charge anyone else. We need to concentrate more on it.

Of course, because this case is a legal absurdity, something I believe Nifong already knows, it is perfectly logical not to do what is logical. Between Nifong's lies and the post-modernism of the Duke faculty, we have the perfect non-event case.

If you wish to read more about how prosecutors in the United States make up hoaxes, here is something else to read:


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

To the 11:42:

One of the more interesting pseudo-bio's i've read in a while. LOL.


Anonymous said...

Here is a blog entry by a former Duke faculty member.

"Why obsess over the signatories to a loopy ad that is a sideshow in a scandal? If you’re a loopy right-winger, you try to use any wedge you can to move universities to the right. It’s not enough to argue for the innocence of three people; you have to use those three people to further your political objective. I note that most people who are supportive of the lacrosse players have been sensible enough to stay focused on the issue of their guilt or innocence. It’s only those on the fringe that are trying to demonize faculty for expressing their opinion. I don’t agree with that opinion. But I think those faculty members have every right to state it."

Anonymous said...

Let me try the link again from my previous post.

Anonymous said...

I think it ironic that the author of the 5:14 blog entry that I posted accuses the "right" of doing exactly what the group of 88 did. They used the case to further their agenda.

Here is the same text turned around to the other side:

....If you’re a loopy left-winger, you try to use any wedge you can to move universities to the left. It’s not enough to argue for the guilt of three people; you have to use those three people to further your political objective. I note that most people who are not supportive of the lacrosse players have not been sensible enough to stay focused on the issue of their guilt or innocence. It’s only those on the fringe that are trying to demonize the LAX player supporters for expressing their opinion. ....

Anonymous said...

Thank goodness the "Duke 88" are the only people left here with integrity and courage. It's no wonder that Princeton University students dressed up like Duke LAX players for Halloween. Some people, students as well, know the LAX players to be scary and should not be allowed to disappear from those who must account for what did, or did not happen. I applaud the 88 for their critique and courage. At least most of them are able to admit they don't know what happened, but agree on a principle of equal justice--that these matters should not be determined in the court of public opinion (where the desired result is erasure), especially like that which appears on these sites. On this Thanksgiving weekend, I am grateful that the processes of law will apply even to (gasp!) privileged white boys at Duke. People, get ready to see yourselves on the other side of the bench.

Anonymous said...

to 5.14...Although I agree with your general premise, and not your characterizationof the ad, let me suggest that the reason there is such outrage about the statement, and focus on them in this blog, is because too much focus on the lax players themselves will reveal the grimy background of their character and their behavior not only that night but throughout their post-game behaviors at Duke. What is really worrisome to y'all is that this behavior will be revealed on the stand and your pristine characterization of these oh so innocent boys will get scattered in the winds. And thanks to the earlier post before this one. At least some people are willing to make this post something less than a right wing screed of magical thinking.

Anonymous said...

To 6:29
Assuming you are for real, how can you pretend that this case has had anything to do with the "processes of law?" The DA in this case has ignored just about everything that that phrase has come to mean.
And if you are for real, you must have some reason to think a crime occurred. Well, what is it? We are dying to hear this. It has been 7-8 months now and all that has been said is "He must have something."
The full version of the statement is "He must have something or he is a sociopath pretending to be a law-enforcement official."

Anonymous said...

To 6:40
And just how is grimy behaviour by a team (even if true)relevant to a specific accusation of rape directed at players who were not even present for the time of the supposed crime?
Or is all of this business as usual in the Durham version of "the processes of law?"

Anonymous said...

The trial will reveal whether or not a rape occurred. It will also reveal the conduct that this blog erases from its concern. No rape, not guilty. Case closed. Bad conduct? Truths to contradict the assertions made otherwise. It will be a pity if a courtroom is needed to do this.But these boys conduct made them vulnerable to this space. That's the potential consequence of bad behavior--allegations of other things. But the behavior of Duke athletics has suggested these are good guys who occasionally drink. Truth will out, about it all. If you are all so confident they are not guilty, relax and let the process go forward. But a whole bunch of other people think you are all scared stiff of a trial because there is more here than you would like to believe.

Anonymous said...

Well, its hard to relax when almost half of Durham doesn't care whether or not a rape or bad conduct occured. They believe that they are guilty becuase they are Duke students, white, and wealthy. Its punnishment for crimes from the past? It has nothing to do with what actually happend. Look at the statements of the HS reporter, the student body official in NCCU and some loopy Professors.

I think most people (even though with the current evidence it makes no sense to even try the case) wouldn't like it but would be OK if it went to trial in a different county.

Anonymous said...

To 6:53
Shall I call your bluff? If there is really lots of bad facts on these guys and they are afraid of a trial because a good case against them exists, then you should have no objection to Nifong giving this case to a special proscecutor who has not been so compromized by inappropriate pre-trial activities and who would undoubtledly be more objective. Likewise, a change of location away from Durham should not bother you either, right? Because the same devastating evidence would be presented against the Duke guys anywhere, right?
Who are you trying to kid. Any outside prosecutor would indict Nifong on this evidence, not the LAX guys. Or would you ever in a million years accept a change of venue, special proscecutor?? Seriously.

Anonymous said...

They are not afraid of a trial as there is tremendous amount of evidence of absolute innocence, tremendous amount of evidence of prosecutorial misconduct and corruption in the DPD and DA's office. Having a trial in Durham is impossible, the AA community has made it so by clearly stating they don't care about innocence or evidence. They want these boys to suffer for past crimes against their race. The newspapers in Durham have showed a slanted version and outright made up lies to cover up all of Nifongs misconduct. Base on law itself Nifong is the one who should be arrested and the DPD investigated. The FEDs are involved and are tracking everything Nifong and the DPD are doing and saying. Rest assured we will see Nifong taken away in handcuffs.

Anonymous said...

So far, you've put up with my own rape story. Would you hate me if I left my url on your site? (that's because my blog is lost)
Thanks, KC

Anonymous said...

Nifong told me to write a long report, I insisted I only had 2 page of hand written notes. He insisted on a long report, so I included our meeting with the accuser. He need the long report so he would have something to go to trial with. After that I got sick and went home and was dismissed as lead investigator. He wanted to be in charge and I was in the way. So I managed to come up with 33 pages of mostly fiction to give him. He wasn't too happy that I contradicted him so I was tossed. The excuse given me by my boss was I was to valuable to be wasting time trying to get him re-elected.

Anonymous said...

Anom 6:53 said
Anonymous said...
The trial will reveal whether or not a rape occurred. It will also reveal the conduct that this blog erases from its concern. No rape, not guilty. Case closed. Bad conduct? Truths to contradict the assertions made otherwise. It will be a pity if a courtroom is needed to do this.But these boys conduct made them vulnerable to this space. That's the potential consequence of bad behavior--allegations of other things. But the behavior of Duke athletics has suggested these are good guys who occasionally drink. Truth will out, about it all. If you are all so confident they are not guilty, relax and let the process go forward. But a whole bunch of other people think you are all scared stiff of a trial because there is more here than you would like to believe.

6:53 PM

How incredibly easy it is to suggest the process go forward when your life hasn't been put on hold and you don't have to pay the lawyers.

Anonymous said...

I say as a rape victim myself, let the "girl" explain her life style and drug abuse. If she was really raped than she would have no fear of her past. But now she wants to hide behind the rape shield law, just to get payback for every bad thing that ever happened to the black man.

She is the reason that we women don't want to come forward anymore.

She is the reason three young men might go to jail for a crime they didn't commit.

Anonymous said...

What more is there Wayne, am I living in the United States or am I missing something. We are not allowed to have parties anymore, or entertainment anymore? These females would not have jobs, if that were the case. Hiring a stripper is not against the law, they have "strip clubs" in Durham. Underage drinking is a violation, but you usually don't get 30 years for that or I would know a lot of people in jail. What do you really think Nifong has? Nifong has nothing more then a liar, trying to stay out of jail and a bunch of incompetent investigators.

Anonymous said...

To 6:29 and 6:40,
My advice to you is to study the probative evidence of the alleged crime. Many people, including me, thought something must have happened until we examined the evidence. The "evidence" about this crime consists of the testimony of a witness who is not credible for a long list of reasons and a hopelessly flawed lineup compared with very persuasive exculpatory evidence--DNA testing, alibi material, medical records, and the complete lack of corroborating evidence in favor of the accuser from any source (other than possibly Sgt. Gottlieb's outrageous 4 month late report which contradicts the reports of two other officers). Given the evidence, the DA and the public's insistence on a trial has to be motivated by something other than the belief a rape actually occurred. 6:29, it is precisely because many of us can see ourselves along with other innocent people on "the other side of the bench" that we follow this case so closely. 6:40, whatever bad behavior, if any, is in the players' background, it is probably not relevant to this case. And surely you both agree that the rest of us have just as much of a right/obligation to criticize/demonize the published statement of the Group of 88 as they have to criticize/demonize the LAX team. Or are you suggesting that the we owe a greater duty to refrain from heightening public condemnation of the Group of 88 who published a statement inviting criticism and are not charged with a crime than the Group of 88 had to their own students who were charged with serious felonies? Also, by the way, I believe the criticism of the Group of 88 comes from across the political spectrum. Finally, try to focus on what it means to "presume innocence," and afford a defendant "due process" and "equal protection." Many lawyers, like myself, who have nothing to do with this case are deeply saddened by how the "processes of law" you are so eager to see used against the "privileged white boys at Duke" have been and continue to be abused. This is a blow to the integity of our justice system, and it affects all of us, not just these defendants you so badly want to see disgraced..

Anonymous said...

6:53 has broken discipline with this post-- perhaps it was the third glass of Gewurztraminer-- the correct spelling of privilege gives him/her away, as, more so, does the assertion that the boys brought rape charges through occupying a certain SPACE. Does that mean being white varsity athletes-- or merely white varsity athletes who play sports associated mostly with boarding schools-- indicate that one's identity is then proof of any charge that someone creates? You, member of Despicable 88, are either insane, or evil . . . sic semper tyrannis

AMac said...

Anonymous 6:29pm and anonymous 6:40pm --

Each of you alludes to information that you possess about members of the Duke Mens Lacrosse Team.

6:29pm: "It's no wonder that Princeton University students dressed up like Duke LAX players for Halloween. Some people, students as well, know the LAX players to be scary..."

6:40pm: "...too much focus on the lax players themselves will reveal the grimy background of their character and their behavior not only that night but throughout their post-game behaviors at Duke."

Can you offer any bona fides? Or a link to a newspaper article? Perhaps a citation to a legal document?

In their absence, how are your charges different from scribbling on a bathroom stall, or a McCarthy-era anonymous smear of "Commie!"?

AMac said...

Anonymous 6:29pm and anonymous 6:40pm --

I've posed the following questions a couple of times. Would you be willing to be the first pro-prosecution commenters to respond?

(1) KC Johnson and most of the site's readers are clear about what happened the night of 3/13--or more exactly, what didn't happen: no felonies and for that matter no misdemeanors. Pro-Due-Process bloggers (KC Johnson, Liestoppers, Anderson, and others) have extensively sourced the evidence behind the reasons why people have come to believe this. What do you think happened that night? What's the evidence? Can you link to it? (Fair warning: no pro-Nifong commenter has ever passed these evidence and links tests.)

(2) If one member of a group (say, a sports team) has done something obnoxious (say, make noise, drink in public, or respond to an epithet with an epithet), do you think that other members of that group should be charged with a felony (say, rape)? If your answer is "yes," should they be convicted? If "yes," should convictions stand even if the accused have ironclad alibis proving they were somewhere else?

(3) If you answered "yes" to one of #2's questions, which other groups in society should also be denied Due Process--or do "white collegiate lacrosse players whom I dislike" stand alone? In your view, who gets to decide when Social Justice considerations can trump criminal justice procedures?

Anonymous said...

This thread is outrageous. There are actually people out there in the the jumping off place of the earth called Durham......who scribble outlandish hatred like small children.

Then they expect others to believe they are anything but insane.

With the very first utterance from Mike Nifong---someone who was a nobody.....just a paper shuffling stooge in the D.A.'s office for decades---I had a gut feeling that this case was going to be bad.

Nifong just didn't, and doesn't, possess the intellectual gravitas that would enable him to play with the big boys. From the start, when he gave all those self-serving interviews.....jumping around and making up scenarios about what happened.....I felt something was awry.

No professional would have behaved the embarrassing way that he did. Looking back on what he promised and what evidence there really is, only an intellectual imbecile or a bitter person filled with cancerous and irrational hatred could wish for innocent people to be charged with a crime that could not possibly have occurred.

(Sorry, but I must give my personal opinion which is a side-bar to the alleged crime: Looking at those two strippers, even if a man were "under the glass" heavily, they are so unattractive that a sexual assault would not have been a crime, but a coup!) some candor has been dispensed......

Many observers and kibitzers did not want to believe the reality within the population of Durham. Many---especially ultra-Liberals---wanted to believe that RACE had nothing to do with this hoax.

But that chimera can only exist among rational people. I see now that many eyes have been opened to what is really going down.

The only hope for justice is to organize and demand that the feds are brought in to fumigate this sewer that Nifong has created. And to see that he pays dearly for what he has done to so many people.

Let the irrational and vengeful racists in Durham have their fun for now. This case and others like it only serve to destroy what empathy and honest goodwill that anyone has for all matter what race or background.

I grew up in a very open and liberal environment where I was taught, by example, to respect everyone. It would have been impossible for me to "hate" someone because of their race.

This horrific miscarriage of justice and the clear view of those who are enjoying it wakes all of us up to some of the sludge that exists among us.

The black community is hanging itself for a cheap thrill.

Debrah Correll

Anonymous said...


You are absolutely right. This case represents the destruction of civilization itself, and I am not kidding when I make a comment like that. If Nifong is permitted to take this sham to trial, then we know that the justice system itself is nothing but a political sham.

In watching the performance of the NAACP and the ACLU, I realize now that neither group cares about justice at all, just promotion of a political point of view.

That quote you got from Childress really tells it all.

Anonymous said...

This ongoing hoax has been stunning in many ways. Notice how the race-baiting Al McSurely who represents the NAACP has been silenced lately. (LOL!!!)

Initially, he excitedly jumped into the N&O with the same old predictable diatribe of "woe is me"....."somebody has done someone wrong"....."and I'm gonna 'git 'em' ".

That sort of predictability is mind-numbing.

About the Childress comment.....he said it like he was talking off the cuff. The way I'm sure he's used to talking to his editorial comrades. Unbelievable!

I regret to have been so disappointed by him. He played a good game for a long time......faking his dispassion with the case.

Now that his hero Mike Nifong pulled off a black-enabling win, Childress and others seem to be sporting a newfound bravado.....complete with the usual cosmic justice clamor.

Very sad; however, someone should be made to pay.

Debrah Correll

Anonymous said...

Let me begin by saying that I cannot wait for the day Nifong has to answer for all his misdeeds in this case. Let me also say that I, as a Duke grad, feel personally injured by the 88's actions. They have defamed my University by using it's name to engage in unconscionable acts of public defamation for their own personal motives.

I preface because I now will defend the decisions by the Board and Administration of Duke not to act in any precipitous way in regards to the 88 or Broadhead. I think the handling of the affair by Broadhead was weak, I think he acted and spoke precipitously at the beginning of the trial, and I think the upshot of what the 88 have done and said should be some form of censure at the least.

But it's far too reactionary to say the 88 should be fired, or that Broadhead should be replaced. Firing (or trying to fire) tenured faculty is a nasty business, and it is supposed to be so. The whole idea is the faculty need to be free to question, even when those questions make people uncomfortable. So the process of censuring the 88 should be deliberate and behind the scenes.

As for replacing the President - a lot goes into running a University. Broadhead was presented with a unique and very unfortunate circumstance early in his tenure, and he handled it badly. He should also be censured and discussions on how to lead the University more effectively should be occuring (and hopefully are) behind the scenes by the Board.

Even the issue of the DPD handling Duke students differently should be dealt with in private, not in the public arena. The police are still the main force for sustaining the peace. While they obviously need to be corrected in how they deal with Duke students, it is counterproductive for Duke to undermine the police and ALL the work they do by publicly getting into a pissing match with them.

In sum, the 88 suck, Nifong is beyond despicable, the accuser is an unfortunate person in a difficult life who has made some very bad and damaging decisions of late, the LAX boys are getting screwed massively, and the Administration at Duke should have handled this situation better. But calling for more heads to roll seems, to me, to be a further heightening of the conflagration, rather than a considered, measured response to the situation at hand.

We need a little more considered and measured response in Durham. Beginning with the case being dropped and the malfeasance of the DA being exposed and dealt with. From there the DPD/Duke issues can be worked on in private, and the 88 can be quietly encouraged to ply their politically blinded philosophy elsewhere. Duke and Durham need less public condemnations and terminations, and more quiet time to work on their issues out of the political and idealogical centrifuge.

Just my opinion...

Duke grad, class of 1992

Anonymous said...

Dear Duke grad. How do you propose to accomplish dropping of the case?
Especially since you are considering just letting everything be?

Anonymous said...

I suspect, after carefully considering all of the information available regarding this non-case, the Federal Government is already looking at Nifong and will act just as soon as the case is dropped. Mr. Nifong painted himself into a corner for political gain and cannot now get himself out of his own stew.

kcjohnson9 said...

Agree completely with what the 1.53 says--but with one important caveat. There's very little evidence that any of this behind-the-scenes censure is occurring, and much to suggest otherwise.

Take the Group of 88. I agree completely--there's no way Duke can or should move to dismiss them. But there's also no way Duke should be putting them in charge of key subgroups of the CCI.

Or the policy toward police. Yes, it would be better to handle it privately. But I'm hearing that Duke has actually supported the policy in the past.

Finally, the trustees--Bob Steel (BOT chair) has been telling people that the BOT supports how the adm. has responded 100%.

Anonymous said...

"It's no wonder that Princeton University students dressed up like Duke LAX players for Halloween."

Bad example---didn't a woman get raped in one of the eating clubs there?

Anonymous said...

The comment that Bob Steel supports the administration 100% absolutely floors me. Of course, my guess is that the lawyer are talking here. You know, gotta stay the course, or the university would be back-door admitting that it screwed up big time. The liability is too great, I guess.

I also agree with K.C. on dealing with the Gang of 88. They are tenured, and no one can be fired for free speech, or at least should not be. However, I just do not think that those professors who slandered students who were in their classrooms should get off as lightly. And the idea that these are the "leaders" of the faculty on campus tells me that it will only get worse at Duke.

Remember, we have a number of faculty members at Duke who openly say that they see no evidence of rape, but they want the Duke 3 to go on trial anyway, and probably they want them convicted. So, what they believe there is that anyone who does not fit into a leftist mold should be going to prison, or something like that. Great place for education, huh?

Anonymous said...

2:22, not sure what you are asking me. I think the case should be dropped, by Nifong or by someone replacing Nifong (via the courts, the State or Federal government, or some mechanism to deal with a miscarriage of justice). And I am not saying everything should just be let go. I am saying it shouldn't be a public freakshow of people being dragged into the public square for flogging.

KC, I appreciate your replying to my post. I would say to your last point, and to Bill Anderson, that even if Broadhead were on the verge of being fired by the Board, the Board members, and especially the Chair, would be expressing public support for the President. To do otherwise would be the worst form of oversight possible - not firing him (right away) but undermining his authority. The worst of ALL worlds for the University. The Board does not need to engage in a publicity campaign to change the President of the University. If they do not have confidence in him, they should fire him. But abusing him in public, even if appropriate in context to a specific event, is entirely inappropriate governance and leadership.

As to the question of 88 members being put in charge of CCI groups and the like - the most charitable way I could view that would be to say Broadhead was trying to pull a Lyndon Johnson and have them "inside the tent pissing out" instead of the other way around. (I figure you, of all people, will appreciate the LBJ reference KC.)

But I can't really see it that way. The mere appearance of support for their actions by having them in charge of anything dealing with this case is, in my opinion, another leadership issue for the Board to take up with Broadhead. In private.

As for the Duke/DPD thing, I find it extremely hard to believe the Board and this, or previous, administrations have agreed that Duke students should be unfairly treated by law enforcement. It almost requires a conspiracy to believe that is true and no one has ever made an issue of it.

Anyway, I, like most of us, wish this nightmare would never have happened. Nifong being re-elected was a reimaginig of the nightmare, too. Now I hope that clear and thoughtful leadership would emerge politically and at Duke to steer this situation to as good a conclusion as it can have, but that hope has yet to be realized.

I can't imagine what those players are going through, and the fact they are being sacrificed on the altar of political correctness - well, I hope it becomes a standard for why PC-ism of the modern day has gone completely off the deep end into, as others have said, McCarthy-like extremes.

Keep up the good work KC! Maybe one day this will be viewed in the appropriate context - with cases like Scottsboro. And maybe one day the 88 will suffer for their own sins too. If there is ever to be a Pulitzer for work done investigating a wrong and documenting it in a blog, this blog deserves to be the first recipient.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, last post was from me, Duke grad of 1992 who posted at 1:53 previously...

Anonymous said...

The prosecutor, the accuser, the faculty 88,-- Boratzing America.

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