Tuesday, February 06, 2007

The "Robbery" Spoof

Last week featured breaking news from The Spoof: Mike Nifong is planning to continue his crusade against Reade Seligmann. Now that the lacrosse case charges are clearly fraudulent, expect a Durham grand jury to bring back indictments that Seligmann parked in a “residents only” space.

The Spoof quoted Nifong: “It is my job as prosecutor to make sure justice is done. This man was parked in a resident space and he should be punished.” The D.A. added that in Durham, all such cases must be heard by a jury, especially if they come just weeks before a hotly contested primary.

Wendy Murphy will take a break from her busy schedule to serve as traffic court judge for the case; Georgia Goslee will be bailiff.

The Spoof, of course, is a spoof. But its editors appear to have gained access to the Wilmington Journal, which published a spoof-like article under the byline of Cash Michaels.

How else to explain this week’s lengthy piece, alleging that the events of the last 10 months are all a hoax? Dave Evans, Reade Seligmann, and Collin Finnerty all decided to push ahead with a trial on sexual assault and kidnapping—because they were afraid to spill the beans about the accuser’s allegation of robbery, a misdemeanor in North Carolina.

For his column, Michaels cites “strong sources close to the case.” This qualifier presumably rules out Cousin Jakki. But Michaels’ “strong sources” remain shrouded in mystery. It hardly seems likely that the A.G.’s office is speaking to Michaels, alone, among North Carolina journalists. Michaels’ previous contacts in the Durham P.D. are no longer “close to the case.” Surely Linwood Wilson’s attorney has cautioned him against doing anything that might increase his legal liability.

Perhaps Karla Holloway is back for a return stint as Michaels’ source? Or maybe Al McSurely is continuing the state NAACP’s fair and balanced approach by leaking his wild new theories to Michaels?

In any event, Michaels claims to have “been quietly following up on tips” for several months on the main crime that dark March evening—not rape or sexual assault, but that someone “allegedly took at least $240.00 from [the accuser’s purse] before she left.”

And what did Michaels find? That police, on March 28, were looking for $340 in a search of another player’s room. A reader would never know that police found $40, $60, or $65 in their search (the sloppily done inventory is unclear on this point). I suspect that any of these amounts could be found in the room of 99.9% of the students on the Duke campus.

These discrepancies are easily explained, says Michaels: “The reason that figure [in the affidavit] is $100.00 more, sources say, is because some of the players allegedly pushed an extra hundred dollars under the bathroom door to entice the accuser and the second dancer to come out after they had locked themselves inside out of fear.” (It appears that these “sources” and the “strong sources close to the case” differ from one another.)

Michaels never says why the amount found was $275, $280, or $300 less than the amount contained in the affidavit. Something to check on with “sources” for a follow-up exposé, no doubt, which might also include a lengthy summary of the “case of the missing shoe.”

Citing “a variety of sources” (presumably a different group of people than the “strong sources close to the case” and the “sources” who rationalized the $340 in the police search warrant), Michaels then devoted nearly 450 words to a blow-by-blow account of the evening, laying out how a robbery could have occurred. The Michaels timeline rules out any sexual assault; it’s unclear, therefore, why Michaels’ “variety of sources” haven’t pressed for the immediate dismissal of all sexual assault allegations, since the evening’s main crime was, apparently, a misdemeanor robbery.

Meanwhile, he continues, “sources” (who appear to differ from the “variety of sources” who gave the minute-by-minute account of the non-rape—and who also appear to differ from both the “strong sources close to the case” and the “sources” who rationalized the $340 in the search warrant) tell Michaels that the March 22 interview session between other lacrosse players and the DPD was postponed not because the parents wanted time to obtain lawyers for their sons but “because attorneys for the players and their parents did not want questions asked about the missing money.”

Let’s leave aside, for a moment, the prime reason for postponing the meeting of the 22nd was for the players to obtain attorneys, so it’s not at all clear how “attorneys for the players” could have strategized about the session. His knowledge of the lacrosse parents’ intentions would suggest that Michaels has “sources” buried deep inside the ranks of lacrosse parents, who surreptitiously passed on to him this nugget of information about other parents’ thinking. Perhaps these “sources” were inspired by gratitude for his fair-minded coverage in recent weeks.

Michaels concludes ominously: “Whether the special prosecutors will followup [sic] on the missing money is unknown.” Could this be the subject of Victoria Peterson’s “Rally for Justice, II”?

To summarize: what the article describes as a months-long investigation into a misdemeanor offense—involving contacts with anywhere from one to four separate sets of sources—comes down to . . . police finding $40, $60, or $65 in a college student’s room.

While the special prosecutors’ path might be “unknown,” the new Michaels theory of the robbery/non-rape/non-sexual assault/non-kidnapping seems certain to encounter some pretty serious obstacles.

1.) If the accuser had one element of consistency in her myriad, mutually contradictory, tales, it was that when she talked about robbery, the person who stole her money was Kim Roberts. So for the Michaels story to be true, the accuser must have repeatedly lied to police and medical personnel (and presumably to the N&O) about who robbed her—suggesting that she has a habit for making false and malicious allegations.

2.) The Michaels timeline, which is wholly inconsistent with the myriad, mutually contradictory, timelines the accuser has thus far offered, seems to offer no possible location for any sexual assault to have occurred. So for the Michaels story to be true, the accuser must have repeatedly lied to police and medical personnel about the sexual assault and about the timeline of events—suggesting that she has a habit for making false and malicious allegations.

3.) For the Michaels story to be true, a reinvention of the past needs to occur. In this alternate view of reality, lacrosse players were eager to talk to Sgt. Mark Gottlieb without their lawyers present, but then suddenly realized they couldn’t do so, because they were covering up a $240 robbery.

4) For the Michaels story to be true, a new and interesting timeline must have occurred after the “robbery” of the accuser’s money on March 14. A college student “robbed” the accuser, and then simply left the money sitting around in his room for 14 days . . . because, as we all know, college students don’t like to spend their money. Most college students, it seems, just like to have cash on their desks, where they can sit and look at it.

In one respect, of course, the Michaels piece is best read as a farce. In another respect, however, it is yet the latest in a string of depressing developments in this case, suggesting that a market for the politics of revenge remains robust, at some levels at least, in Durham.

141 comments:

GPrestonian said...

Good post. KC.

Michaels also didn't mention that Crystal had $2,000 on her, not $200.

He posted @ TalkLeft and said that the $200 was a typo, and that the print version said $2,000. The typo hasn't been corrected on site yet...

And the DPD didn't search for the $100 bill that Cash' article says the players slipped under the bathroom door.

Anonymous said...

I cannot imagine who Cash's sources must be. Why on earth do people continue to just make stuff up about the Lax-3 this late in the process?

MP

Anonymous said...

and, umm, reade needed to go the ATM after this huge score why?

at least i'm glad KC has finally seen the light with Cash Michaels. KC, for almost the entire duration of the case until the Meehan bombshell, has bent over backwards to not call Cash out on his 2-bit racial hucksterism.

GPrestonian said...

Lousy1 had a great 'cash identification' lineup at TL:

"From the police Tape 4/12/06. Line up with the Accuser.

$20 #12 That looks like him, the green dead white guy. That was my money.
...
$20 #15 Looks like him without a mustache.
...
$20 #42 I remember when some old buzzard slipped that one down my G-String

Note that no bills of any other denomination were used in this lineup."

Lousy1's post

Nunway said...

Cash Michaels has surprised me with his creativity. I thought that the "crime" the hoax crowd would now assert is simple assault (all the hootin' and hollerin' by those LAX hooligans putting Precious in fear of bodily harm). The Michaels article is a good reminder that the hoax crowd will never give up. Thankfully, neither will KC.

Anonymous said...

cash michaels spelled backwards...BULLSH*T!

Anonymous said...

If the AV did have $2000, as she claimed, does that suggest she had an earlier performance that day? If so, might the "agency" that referred her to the Duke party also have referred her to that one, and might it have records to indicate where that other show might have been? I assume that defense counsel has already investigated this possibility.
gk

Anonymous said...

Good fun KC - The UMR blog has a few excellent articles on the NC Bar complaints. Connected through Liestoppers.

Gunslinger said...

Thanks, KC, I really enjoyed this one.

I've posted this in other places but I'll take the liberty of reiterating it briefly here:

If Nifong and the DPD had any evidence whatsoever that the lax players had stolen $2000 from the accuser, they would not have let the matter drop. It would appear that this is just the latest smear from Cash "Keep Hatin'" Michaels

Anonymous said...

Expect to find Cash Michaels a member of The Disgraced Journalist's Club soon.

Anonymous said...

JLS says...

Professor Johnson, do we have a roll of the nine congressmen who Mr. Michaels says are on the record on this? I know Congresswoman McCarthy of Long Island who is I believe a Democrat. I know the GOP Congresmen from NC, Jones, and NY, King, maybe Staten Island. I don't know the other six.

As for the robbery claim of the hoax supporters, I guess they just want to say, "see Mangum had her reasons for crying rape." Early on I wondered if this was a commercial dispute, but the evidence has long since suggested this was simply a cry of rape to avoid being locked up.

Anonymous said...

Pat says

I'm waiting for proof the stolen "$2000" ever existed in the first place. Crystal has lied about everything else so why believe her about the money?

Cash Michaels is a pathetic loser...Opportunity knocked, giving him a chance to be a local "KC", with all kinds of connections to write a masterpiece on the local politics and seamy side of Durham that allowed this case to happen...who knows...he could have been offered a "real job" at a "real" paper. Cash slammed the door in opportunity's face.

wayne fontes said...

The video of cousin Jackie is just outstanding. It reminded me a lot of Dennis Rodman when he was on his game. But weren't you afraid of the enablers saying this was just another attempt to demonize the victim's spokesman by dredging up his/her cross dressing transexual past. Don't you feel guilty about the chilling effect this will have on other transgendered family spokespersons in the future. Shame on you KC

M. Simon said...

Here is another spoof that seems to be raising the ire of Islamic thugs in America.

Muslim Hit Team? at Guilford College Sunday?

Anonymous said...

JLS says...,

Pat good analysis of the opportunity Mr. Michaels blew on this case. You are right he had a chance to become a real figure here. But he was not up to the task.

M. Simon said...

If the robbery motive comes up CGM is going to be examined on where the money came from.

Did she withdraw it from a bank? Earn it pole dancing? Waiting tables at an upscale resturant? Cashiering at McDonalds?

Imagination runs wild re: CGM explaining the money: "Well I took on these two guys (front and back) and they paid me $xxx and $yyy. Then I played for a guy and his wife and the guy unloaded, that was $zzz and then this one other guy for $qqq. And I did my driver for free to keep him in a good mood since everything was running so late."

Yep. That is going to work really well.

If the country's attitudes were better re: prostitution, explaining the money would not be a problem. However, we are where we are and this is going to hurt.

CGM's place in this case started with her being raped as a child. It is not justification. It does explain a lot of her behavior. Stopping the internal and external lies is the only way out for her and otthers like her. It is extremely difficult.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I found a couple of $20 bills lying around in my house -- maybe I was sleepwalking or something and am the real villian. Come to think of it, I can't remember where I was when the OJ thing went down...


Cash has the same problem as CGM: zero credibility. Even if every word he wrote in the linked article were true, I'd say "so what". He's down to accusing the Duke three of taking back some of the money they paid when a two-hour performance turned into a two-minute performance? Too bad CGM or Kim Roberts didn't think this up in time to testify to it. Maybe if they'd had nearly a year and so many helpful sources?

Anonymous said...

Perhaps Cash's breaking news was a favor to his friends at the Durham County Water Board. With this hot article and very very very very very very very close sources, county residents might be distracted from the fact that their water has tested up to 60 times the lead limit - and that toxic lead levels cause brain, liver and kidney damage in children age 6 and younger.
MTU'76

Joe T. said...

M. Simon: Regarding the "Muslim Hit Team?" article. Whether it's true or not, I'd love to see the dimwit faces of those new black panthers on hearing that report, trying to decide which side they should take, since some of the "attackers" were black and the "attackees" were Islamic. How do they fit that into their child fantasies of black=Islam against white=otherreligions=oppression etc. Guilford could confuse them even more than a trip to Darfur.

Anonymous said...

Good writers treasure clarity. Cash Michaels' incoherent style confuses and obscures.

He's either afraid of his argument, or a terrible writer, or both.

beckett

Anonymous said...

So now Cash "Something Must Have Happened" Michaels thinks that a rape might not have happened. But dang it, Crystal was robbed! Well no money was taken from Collin Finnerty or Reade Seligmann in searches. In fact Reade had to go to a ATM latter that night to get money to buy meal. It is time for all charges to be dropped and Cash should at least do the right thing and say now that Reade is totally innocent. By the way I got alot of cash and change in a drawer in my house. I hope the cops don't start going door to door and search houses becuse someone who was on their way to the drunk tank says 3, 5 or 20 men raped them not grouped them nope they just stole money from my vending machine.

Anonymous said...

The last word on Amanda Marcotte goes to Jeff Goldstein.

Anonymous said...

WHAT ROBBERY???

My area is tax and it has been many years since I took Criminal Law, but I seem to recall that "robbery" is the taking of property from a person by violence or intimidation.

The stealing of money from a person's purse when that person is away is not robbery because there is no violence or intimidation. Robbery is a felony. Theft, on the other hand, may be a felony or a misdemeanor, depending on the amount stolen.

Mike in Nevada

Anonymous said...

The posters at Lie Stoppers and Talk Left dismantled this story in less time than it took Cash to write it. KC's article here is the icing on the cake. Way to go KC! This latest attempt by Cash to smear the Duke lacrosse team is pathetic and weak. Cash do you have no shame?

Anonymous said...

Why didn't Cash Michaels write this theory earlier in the case?! Then Ubuntu, Sam Hummel, Selena Sebring, the Take Back the Night crew, and the 88 potbangers could have had a protest outside the lax house holding up a "Cut off their hands!" sign and shouting that this was another example of how, as with all across the country, white males are regularly robbing and mugging blacks.

Anonymous said...

If I recall correctly, Michaels 'proves' his thesis at one point by mentioning that the lacrosse team slipped a $100 bill under the door to coax the FA out of the bathroom. Supposedly, this was among the money stolen from her. Cash solves the mystery by pointing out that one of the lacrosse players was found to be in possession of $100 in denominations of $20.

M. Simon said...

joe t, 1:25AM,

Amusing observation. Sadly true.

Anonymous said...

Sweetmick says:
It's time to see if KC is right about the rehabilitation of Ruth Sheehan and the N&O. Let's see if the N&O will now publish the other remarks that Crystal stated about Kim in that infamous interview, the remarks that Linda Williams said were libelous, which could only have been that Kim assisted in the "rape" and stole her money, $2,000.00.

Anonymous said...

Just shows how pathetically desperate some people are to accuse the LAX defendants of something . . . anything . . . no matter how ludicrous . . . to justify the actions of those who have been calling for the defendants' heads for so many months. Face it, Cash Michaels, the only crimes committed that night were committed by Kim Roberts and Crystal Gail Mangum.

Anonymous said...

Here's a test...guess what this article is speaking about. Does this look familiar? I'll make a $20.00 donation, in the winners name, to the Truth and Fairness Lacrosse Defense fund for the first that gets it correct. Being a white, male, straight, Capitalist has no bearing...

Good luck.

"Sadly, my experience is that universities are the most dogmatic and oppressive places in our society. This becomes progressively worse as they receive more and more funding from governments that demand a particular viewpoint."

"... am not the only one trying to make people open up their eyes and see the truth. But few listen, despite the fact that I was the first ________ Ph.D. in _________ and I have an extensive background in ________________, especially the _______________. Few listen, even though I have a Ph.D, from the University of ______, ...and was a ______ professor at the University of _____."

"Personal attacks are difficult and shouldn't occur in a debate in a civilized society. I can only consider them from what they imply. They usually indicate a person or group is losing the debate"

"I am not alone in this journey against the prevalent myth."

"...the consensus was reached before the ________had even begun." Now, any _______who dares to question the prevailing wisdom is marginalized and called a _____________, when in fact they are simply being good _______."

"Meanwhile, politicians are being listened to, even though most of them have no knowledge or understanding of _________, especially ________and ________."

"Until you have challenged the prevailing wisdom you have no idea how nasty people can be. Until you have re-examined any issue in an attempt to find out all the information, you cannot know how much misinformation exists in the supposed age of information"

"___________, as we think we know it, doesn't exist"

Time, you may now put your pencils down and turn your exam into the Proctor.

Anonymous said...

The Michaels article is scary.

It tells the reader (and the world) that many black Americans are so consumed with hatred that they will twist reality to extreme (and dangerous) proportions.

Anonymous said...

12:28 Inre: The Disgraced Journalist club...wouldn't one need to be a Journalist to qualify?

Anonymous said...

Off Topic but Need Information:

During my participation in Sunday's walk, I noticed pairs of women in several locations near the Bright leaf Square parking lot taking pictures of the procession. Can anyone identify who they were or took pictures of them? I said good morning to one pair only to receive a nasty stare. Were these the G88/87 advance and reconnaissance teams?

Anonymous said...

Michaels is getting his resumé in order so that he can apply at the New York Times. Everyone knows the main stream print media loves their anonymous "sources." Cash just wants his shot to play with the big boys.

I think the NYT should consider it. They haven't had a black reporter with a knack for making up the "truth" since Jayson Blair got sacked.

Anonymous said...

Regarding your observations on the pair of women taking photos near Bright Leaf Square - there has been a poster on the Duke Chronicle message boards claiming that she observed the Walk, and that the crowd was much smaller than announced - say, 75 people rather than 125.

This poster is a regular apologist for the Group of 88 and a shrill, mindless opponent of anyone who questions Group of 88 behavior.

It would not surprise me to learn that these two women photographers were members of the Group of 88, or perhaps ardent devotees of the group out of the "Angry Studies" department.

bill anderson said...

It seems that His Corpulency (Cash "The Corpulent One" Michaels) is trying to get a job with the Duke University English Department as a creative writer. Duke has a number of Very Creative Writers on its Arts and Sciences faculty these days, and I am sure that since Houston "I Didn't Sexually Assault That Graduate Student" Baker went to Vanderbilt, the university needs a replacement.

From what I can see, His Corpulency might run into trouble in that his spelling does not seem to be as bad as that of Baker, but his mind is just as "creative." By the way, I would look for even more works of fiction to come from the Wilmington Journal in the future. The NAACP in North Carolina has made this The Case for black politics and it seems that His Corpulency and the Other Corpulent One (William Barber) are demanding that there be Some Charges That Stick before this case is dismissed.

You see, to most of us, "justice" involves real charges and real crimes to be committed. Unfortunately, His Corpulency and his friends believe that justice is nothing more than just a bunch of bad trades. His Corpulency sees Reade, Collin, and David not as real people, but simply as pawns in a racial trading game. If that sounds evil, it's because what His Corpulency is demanding IS evil.

M. Simon said...

6:41AM,

Too easy.

Albert Einstein about Nazi Germany.

Anonymous said...

Inre: to the two women at the walk...

It's possible they are students...at Duke...taking WomenST220, Foundations in Femenist Theory...

As noted in the Synopsis, "The theoretical weight of these opening inquiries will sustain our conversations throughout the semester, as we read debates about the utility of identity as a framework for political movement, the role of the nation-state in transforming women’s situation, the interplay between gender and sexuality in various theoretical traditions, and the possibility of analytical linkages between and among gender, race, sexuality, and geopolitical region"

WOMENST220

For $46,000 per year, you too can do whatever in the world is described above.

Warning: That is a graduate level class, no amateurs allowed!

Anonymous said...

M. Simon: "Albert Einstein about Nazi Germany"

Incorrect

M. Simon said...

7:17AM,

Too wrong.

Anonymous said...

6:52 Does anyone have links to the walk video? Maybe the women, mentioned are captured in the video.

M. Simon said...

I just looked it up.

We have a lot of "holy writ"

Here is one I'm working on "Drugs Cause Addiction". Addiction is a function of genetics and trauma. Drugs are a symptom not a cause.

Anonymous said...

to 6:41

Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?
By Special Correspondent Timothy Ball

05/28/06

http://tinyurl.com/2s836p

GPrestonian said...

More on Easley's comments re: Nifong not running, from the H-S this AM:

Easley had asked Nifong not to run

"In appointing Nifong to succeed former District Attorney Jim Hardin Jr. -- who became a judge -- Easley merely wanted a "placeholder or non-candidate" to fill the job until last year's election, said Easley spokeswoman Renee Hoffman.

That way, those who wanted to compete at the ballot box "would be able to start from a level playing field," Hoffman added."

bill anderson said...

We see more nonsense from the Hurled-Scum this morning. It seems that the paper still wants to promote the hoax that the other lacrosse players won't "come forward":

Racism and classism
----------------------------------

I shouldn't do this, since I remember mother used to say, "Fools' names like fools' faces always appear in public places." But, I guess I will be a fool just like Beverly M. Day of Hillsborough, and Mark D. Overholser of Woodbury, Minn. My comments will no doubt reveal my attitude regarding the existence of racism, classism, and homophobia just as did Day's and Overholser's comments reveal their attitudes. How do we know that racism exists? Read Overholser's letter of Feb.1, in which he evidences a ferocious hate and comes dangerously close to issuing a threat to blacks and their friends.

How do we know that classism exists? Recall the many letters from all over the country that denigrate everything about Durham. The question for us in Durham is why won't the lacrosse players who were at the fateful party, but were not charged, come forward and tell us the truth about what happened? Perhaps they will, at the trial, if they are not "hooligans."

How do we know that homophobia exists? I read Day's letter of Jan. 31. In that letter, one can see not only that Day is somewhat prudishly homophobic, but, according to inside information she provided, so is God! Assuming Day is a Christian, I challenge her to provide a scriptural reference from the four Gospels of the New Testament in which Jesus comments on homosexuality!

ROBERT G. PAUL
Durham
February 6, 2007

Anonymous said...

6:41 Congratulations! A winner and an indication of both the power of the Internet and search engines. A $20 donation will go out today!

Blame Canada

Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide
Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?

By Timothy Ball
Monday, February 5, 2007

Global Warming, as we think we know it, doesn't exist. And I am not the only one trying to make people open up their eyes and see the truth. But few listen, despite the fact that I was the first Canadian Ph.D. in Climatology and I have an extensive background in climatology, especially the reconstruction of past climates and the impact of climate change on human history and the human condition. Few listen, even though I have a Ph.D, (Doctor of Science) from the University of London, England and was a climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. For some reason (actually for many), the World is not listening. Here is why.

Anonymous said...

Blame Canada, URL

http://www.canadafreepress.com/phprint.php

M. Simon, just as I think I've mastered something, I am humbled.

Svolich said...

As I read the article, and his 200/2000 "correction" on TL, he claims that the players stole $2000 from CGM's purse, then spent most of it, including the $100 bill, and this is proven by the existance of 8 or 5 or 3 $20 bills in the house.

Is that about it?

Anonymous said...

Let's try this...

Blame Canada

Anonymous said...

Global warming deniers. You make this board look like a bunch of half-wits. Kind of like a right-wing version of the Group of 88. Completely blind moonbats!!! You'll need Manhattan to be under 20 feet of water in order for them to concede that the globe is even warming (after all, it IS freezing out right now). Then, they'll say despite the record-breaking greenhouse gas emissions, that every so often, the globe warms anyway naturally... and I'll be DAMNED if I let facts like a record-breaking pace and the correleation between man-made gasses get in the way of my blind idiocy!!!

bill anderson said...

You have to understand that the NAACP and His Corpulency are trying to use this "robbery" as a "bargaining chip" in this affair. From His Corpulency's "open letter" in the Wilmington Journal to these latest "robbery" claims, the "black leadership" of North Carolina is trying to hold Reade, Collin, and David hostage by demanding that the state "try and convict" them of "something."

You have to understand that this is nothing but pure bargaining under racial politics. These people know that nothing happened, but because they had all the rallies and devoted all of their credibility to "demanding justice," His Corpulency and his followers are not willing to have been openly promoting a hoax.

There have been no louder voices in North Carolina calling for obvious wrongful convictions than His Corpulency and the NAACP. This is from people who claim to want "justice." That says everything we need to know about Cash Michaels.

Anonymous said...

Maybe Michaels is auditioning for a position in Creative Writing at Duke (or NCCC), but I think he got some bad pot in his stash.

The way it rambles on I would be surprised if he didn't need a new keyboard from all the Doritos crumbs in it.

GPrestonian said...

9:00am Anon:

"The way it rambles on I would be surprised if he didn't need a new keyboard from all the Doritos crumbs in it."

'Blather all you want, we'll make more'. ;>)

Anonymous said...

Intersting article posted on the Drudge Report this morning (Tues 2/6/07). Two anonymous Grand Jurors are interviewed. While semi-acknowledging they may not have indicted if they knew then what they know now, they are still incredibly bullheaded. One even laments that CGM's life may be completely ruined by all of this!
The high lead content in Durham's drinking water needs to be closely examined. Mass brain damage is obviously occurring. I am 100% serious.

Anonymous said...

8:46 Wow!?!? Nobody denies warming. It's just the science (lack thereof) and claims being thrown out are not supported by science.

But that is not really the point, I used this only as an example, as the writing caught my eye, since it relates directly to the approach taken by Nifong and most importantly, his enablers, (The Gang of 88, others in academia, a majority of the media, the Durham political machine, etc.).

"Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." - Cash M.

Well maybe not.

Anonymous said...

"Alien Meets Predator II" and Cash Michaels plays both sides.

Anonymous said...

From very early on in this case, I always felt there was an issue of money involved. This story is obviously bogus, so what I am about to say is in no way agreeing with it.

As a former college athlete, and someone who like the "animal house" mentality of college, I have been witness to several parties similar to the lacrosse one(of course, without a bogus rape charge). Picture this, you have a large group of rambunctious college guys. They are drinking and just forked over some money to see some woman strip. Well, first of all, the chicks werent very good looking. But the guys werent going to send them back, so no big deal. But the big deal is when you pay several hundred dollars(especially for college students), and one of the strippers cant perform because she is too drunk. I am sure they paid her upon arrival, so what happens when she cant perform? I know I would want my money back...in fact I have seen this happen before. The liar was drunk, so I wouldnt be surprised if one of the players grabbed their money since she was unable to perform. When she realizes they took the money back, that when all the chaos begins.

I truly believe something similar to this occurred. Of cousre, how is that theft? If you pay for a service, and no service is rendered, then you are entitled to getting your money back.

Anonymous said...

8:46

Get your terms right - moonbats are left wing extremists, also known as "moderate democrats", derived from Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown and batsh*t crazy.

Also, Manhattan under 20 feet of water sounds like a good start to me. Include LA, Berkeley and New Orleans and we have a deal.

It can't happen soon enough.

But back to the point, I think the correct Cash Michaels quote is "Ye shall know the porkchop and the porkchop shall make you morbidly obese". But I could be wrong about that. If only he had an appetite for truth that matched his gluttony for food...

Anonymous said...

***8:46 Wow!?!? Nobody denies warming. It's just the science (lack thereof) and claims being thrown out are not supported by science.***

Science is not always absolute. What we call "science" or the "scientific theory" is truly nothing more than THE BEST, most commonly-accepted theorum amongst scientists. In this case, you have MORE than an overwhelmning majority of scientists supporting the theory that man-made greenhouse gasses are the catalyst for faster, more severe warming than has ever happened in our past.

You do realize, don't you, that normal global climate change, even substantial and rapid global climate change historically, does NOT mean that greenhouse gasses are not greatly exacerbating the problem and creating the perfect storm, don't you?

To say that there isn't science behind it is disingenuous and I think any intelligent person knows that. Its a desperate attack on an overwhelming scientific consensus. Yes, there are scientists who don't work for oil companies that actually deny man's effects on global warming, but they represent an infinitesimal percentage of scientists worldwide.

The tiny, tiny minority of scientists who deny man's substantial effect on global warming is smaller than the percentage of smart, disiniterested people who believe CGM's story 100%. Just so you know what kind of brilliant company you are keeping. Don't deny the science behind global warming. Just say that in your expert opinion, you agree with the .000001% of the world's scientists who deny man's substantial contribution to this period of warming.

Anonymous said...

***Also, Manhattan under 20 feet of water sounds like a good start to me. Include LA, Berkeley and New Orleans and we have a deal.***

Aren't the terrorist attacks -- primarily on New York City -- the reason CC's (crazy conservatives) thought we should attack the entire Middle East? Now all of a sudden you want our biggest targets under 20 feet of water? Perhaps you'd like to join Pat Robertson's church... they believe that America deserved 9/11 and that our decadent behavior caused it.

You clearly hate America much more than the CC's could ever accuse dissenters of this administration of hating her. You are in bed and have the same goals as, the terrorists, not the American left.

"New York under 20 feet of water would be a start"? Are you serious Osama?

Gary Packwood said...

$100 Bills are not distributed at ATM's.
So I suppose the implication here is that college guys waited in line at a Bank so they could get $100 bills for a party at someone's house...in Durham.
Nope. Didn't happen.
Where is Andy Rooney when you need him?

Anonymous said...

If the shoe fits, wear it. Global warming deniers might as well be wearing tin foil on their heads, watching out for low-flying black CIA helicopters following them. "Moonbat" or whatever else you want to call yourselves, you are going against the great weight of science.

BUT, since the facts don't work for you, there is one sure-handed way to disregard 99.9% of the world's scientists... CALL THEM AND THE MEDIA BIASED!!! Nixon masterminded the whole "When things aren't going well, and there is legitimate press scrutiny and criticism of our actions, call the press liberal and biased!!!" Let us not forget the peachy-keen coverage Bush got at the beginning of the Iraq War. The press was asleep at the wheel, enabling Bush, NOT undercutting him at every turn. Bush F-ed up the war in Iraq so badly that only Crazy Karl Rove would NOT pick him apart. Your Texan tough-guy simply has failed miserably with carte blanche.

Anonymous said...

Cash Michaels has become the embodiment of the horrible racist stereotype nitwit black man. He puts on his act through his columns and posts, leaving his white audience begging for more. Check out the reviews of his latest attempt at journalism right here on this thread:

--"Cash Michaels has surprised me with his creativity."

--"Good fun KC"

--"Thanks, KC, I really enjoyed this one."

--"It seems that His Corpulency (Cash "The Corpulent One" Michaels) is trying to get a job with the Duke University English Department as a creative writer."

--""Alien Meets Predator II" and Cash Michaels plays both sides."

--"But back to the point, I think the correct Cash Michaels quote is "Ye shall know the porkchop and the porkchop shall make you morbidly obese"."

He has nothing on Licoln Perry. At least Mr.Perry knew his act was a joke.

I wish Mr. Michaels would stop it.

Anonymous said...

This is not a global warming forum.

Jim said...

So, after robbing the stripper of hundreds, Reade Seligmann immediately heads to an ATM to withdraw more cash so he can afford a burger at Cook Out.

Cook Out must be a pricey place.

AMac said...

A general thought.

People who write comments that stray far from the subject matter of the post are making these threads less valuable for those of us who are trying to follow The Duke Lacrosse Rape Hoax and its aftermath.

Obviously, some authors mean well but lack self-control.

Then there are the Amandas, who'd doubtless delight in sticking a spanner in the works. They'd silence Durham-in-Wonderland if they could.

Meanwhile, they aren't shedding any tears over the spiralling spam-to-content ratio in recent comment threads.

Anonymous said...

The problem with "straying" comes from conservatives on this board trying to bring this case in a racist, partisan direction, making out ridiculous "Democrat" and liberal caricatures and trying to make it seem like support for the "Group of 88" is widespread in "Democrat" quarters.

This is one incident, much like Randy "Duke" Cunningham was one man who happened to be a Republican. I'm sick of the backhanded slaps and when I see 'em, I'll respond, as should any other liberal or Democrat on this board to support these boys. It is transparent and obvious that those who start these off-topic battles are Republican/conservatives who want to create and beat up on boogeymen/strawmen.

M. Simon said...

Here is how you make permalinks:

<a href="url">text to display</a>

replace url with:
http://www.siss.duke.edu/schedule/1190/WOMENST
leave the quote marks

replace text to display
with
Women's Studies Courses at Duke

Women's Studies Courses at Duke

Use preview to test it out. Click on the permalink in your preview to see if it works.

Anonymous said...

I certainly did not mean to agitate this thread into a global warming slug-fest and apologize to others. Read the article and compare the language to the Duke hoax - that is my point.

To a certain degree the responses affirm my point.

Maybe we create a pool as to when we think Manhattan will be 20' under water and the closest selection will win 25% of the pot and the balance goes to the defense fund?

Anonymous said...

Maybe you should admit that you sounded like Osama when you said you wanted NYC to be under 20 feet of water?

Anonymous said...

KC,
It's going to be a slow few months unless Cash keeps up his BS. Here's a project. I've heard that DPD has not made an arrest for prostitution in 5 years. Sounds like someone is getting paid off or Durham is just a clean city. Any truth to these rumors?

Kemp

Anonymous said...

No, the responses do not confirm your point. The Group of 88 are complete morons who won't admit they are wrong no matter what the evidence... and so are global warming deniers. You are the right's answer to the Group of 88... except the fate of 3 men was initially threatened by those 88 jerks... much more is at stake with global warming. Needless to say, I believe that supporting these 3 men is very, very important... as I do the earth.

M. Simon said...

A Geologist Looks At Global Warming

Global Cooling

BTW we are not sure if the effect of water vapor raises temperature (greenhouse effect) or cools (clouds).

In the models heating always predominates.

The models do not take into account the variability of the sun - which explains 2/3s to 3/4s of observed warming.

The models are terrible at predicting the past. Yet folks have confidence in their ability to predict the future.

AGW is a fraud sold for the purpose of attaining a political agenda.

Clue: Enron championed global warming. Why? They wanted to sell carbon and CO2 futures. They needed government to force a market.

Anonymous said...

M. Simon... I'm 100% confident that the agenda of the global warming believers in the scientific community -- if any -- is far less than the mercenary scientists who actually deny global warming.

Aren't you sick of idiots like Imhoff from Oklahoma getting destroyed in debates about global warming?

Plus, the whole natural phenomenon of periods of global warming and cooling is addressed, cleanly and understandably, by those who believe man is contributing greatly to current global warming. The fact that there is substantial natural climate change is not a silver bullet for gw deniers, M. Simon.

Anonymous said...

Small percent of scientists dont believe the man-made global warming hype?

http://oism.org/pproject/s33p357.htm

Looks like a good sized number there....but they all must be neo-cons, right?

M. Simon said...

The AGW stuff is valuable because it sheds light on the fact that religiously held beliefs are not always about religion.

I didn't believe in global warming at one time. Now I believe it is real.

However, the case that it is man made is out.

Suppose we are working against warming when an ice age is in our future? We will be accelerating ourselves into a disaster. For the last few million years ice ages have predominated 80% of the time.

I'm told most crops do not do well under ice.

AMac said...

The Wilmington Journalism School
JOUR 331 - Agendas (Graduate Level)

In this seminar, students will learn to present an innocuous fact and then follw it with a second observation. Readers should be guided to believe that evil forces have been exposed. NOTE: No credit for coursework will be awarded if a student project leads to the filing of a libel lawsuit.

In a written request for comment regarding the change of venue motion, The Carolinian/Wilmington Journal newspapers asked defense attorney Brad Bannon if, as alleged, “the [team] silence was to protect the player who allegedly took money out of the accuser’s purse, and only put back part of it.”

Atty. Bannon answered the question pertaining to the motion, but never addressed the alleged robbery issue, even to deny it.


[Edited for clarity]

Ah -- Cash McCarthy passed this course with flying colors.

Anonymous said...

Hey, you want legal documents? Go to a lawyer. You want sound scientific theory? Go to the scientists.

Oh right, I forgot that environmentalism is a religion. Mark Levin said that, so you know it isn't whacky or insane or idiotic or anything like that.

Just do a better job of attacking the messengers (the scientists and the press). Soon enough, you'll plant the seed of doubt into the scientific consensus. Yes, some LEGITIMATE doubters would help solidify the theory or force the scientists to go back to the drawing board... but the Hannitys, Levins, Coulters and Imhoffs of the world are disingenuous. Actually, Imhoff might be one of the few who actually come out and just say (in addition to lying about scientists not having reached a consensus) that one of his main reasons for attacking global warming theorists is the added costs of clean technology.

By the way, "consensus" doesn't mean that there aren't people who believe the world is flat.

Anonymous said...

Using the image of New York City being inundated by 20 feet of water is not a very good motivation to change, outside of NYC, perhaps. Indifference to the fate of that city is probably more prevalent than the NYC-centric crowd would care to believe.

Does that make a person identical in philosophy to O(b)sama? I think not - he actively tried to damage the city. I, however, just don't care what happens to it, and if it goes under water, too bad. Just don't ship the human refuse to my town. See Houston after Katrina.

Do I care about global warming - heck yes - I hate winter - bring on some heat. I am in agreement with the Polish scientists who are going to land on the surface of the sun to see what is going on there. We need to know more.

Now where were we - Cash is fat, as is Rush, Nifong bad, Edwards is hypocritcal, Debrah's breasts were laughed off her, Crystal Gail Mangum lost thousands of dollars that she earned as a repository for genetic material, Enron bad, no, Enron good, no greed is good, no the Gecko works for Geico - aw, this is so confusing!

Anonymous said...

Dude, if you don't care about New York City, then why is the terrorist attack of 9/11 the basis of the whole "have you forgotten" justification for the War in Iraq?

I've never understood it. In red/right-wing land/ "Heartland" America, there is almost a hatred for the culture and people of places like New York City (as demonstrated quite PERFECTLY by this poster on this thread). Then why the hell did you care about 9/11? Why are you using at as support for a war that the people most at risk (those in NYC) don't support?

The irony isn't lost on me!

Anonymous said...

***Indifference to the fate of that city is probably more prevalent than the NYC-centric crowd would care to believe.***

Hmmmm. I thought 9/11, which hit NYC the hardest (our buildings, our businessmen/women, our businesses, our laborers, our cops and firemen, New Yorkers in general) was the great reason we needed to take out dictators in the Middle East like Saddam? At least you're honest about your being disingenuous!!!

AMac said...

Yep, the Durham-in-Wonderland blog is the place to come to debate Global Warming. You're all sure to pick up new adherents to your various causes here. I mean, what sort of knucklehead wouldn't base their viewpoint on a bunch of anonymous opinionators in an irrelevant forum?

Nice job with the thread, guys and gals. Next time, don't forget to weigh in about importing prescription drugs from Canada.

M. Simon said...

10:30AM,

The fact that for at least 15 years the models have ben seriously revised every few years as new factors are discovered and yet they keep producing the same answers is suspect.

The fact that the models are never released for general inspection is suspect.

Suppose the models have 100 multiplicative factors known to 99% precision.The first iteration gives you 37% likely accuracy. Each subsequent interation makes matters worse. Now some of the factors will be offsetting so it is not as quite as bad as that. Still with millions of iterations required to cover 100 years your odds of getting anything more predictive than trends (and possibly not even that if we have clouds wrong) is very slim indeed.

Not near good enough to bet trillions on.

I work in electronics. The factors are relatively few and well known and well modeled. Yet if I come within 10% I consider that excellent. Climate is 1,000 times more complicated, the factors much less known and yet I'm supposed to believe AGW is real? Sure.

As soon as I see the variablity of the sun in the models. So far 11/22 year and 1,500 year +/- 500 year cycles are known. Not a lot of precision there. Even the 11 year cycles can vary frequently from 10 to 12 years. Greater excursions are possible.

Well any way, AGW is a religious belief. Evidence against it is denied and we even have a Stalinist movement to silence deniers.

Ran into the same thing wher rape was shown to have false accusations in the 20 to 60% range.

Belief trumps facts. Most people can't learn anything that challenges their world view after age 25.

I'm an engineer. I can't afford that. I want you to get home safe and sound on your airline flight. I have to go where evidence takes me. I honor your life more than my own beliefs. This is an uncommon attitude.

Anonymous said...

Well - out here in Vegas, the ATMs issue $100.00 bills.

Anonymous said...

***Well any way, AGW is a religious belief. Evidence against it is denied and we even have a Stalinist movement to silence deniers.***

I heard that the Bush administration found it very, very important to listen to those who denied the whole "yellowcake" claim... soooo not Stalinist towards those who tried to set forth contrary facts to the President. And that involved a kind of peripheral, less important decision about whether or not to go to war and occupy a country, spending thousands of lives and trillions in treasure. Imagine the kind of objective, all-inclusive analysis this adminstration does with issues that are actually important!?!?!?

Anonymous said...

Ah, liberals, you gotta love 'em. Just because someone doesn't care about NYC, they assume that the same person cares about the war. Or supports the war. Interesting conflation. Imagine that it is possible to not care about NYC or Baghdad or Tehran or Seoul, or the fate of the people that live in those cities. It isn't hard if you try. Just keep your citified riff raff out of my town, ok?

As for justification of the war in Iraq, you forgot to mention WMDs and oil - come on, did you lose that page of your talking points?

M. Simon said...

amac,

The AGW disputes fit right in with the Gang of 88 stuff.

Belief trumps evidence.

We also saw a similar attitude on false rape accusations.

Belief trumps evidence.

Same with the IQ debate. Belief trumps evidence. It really sucks that IQ is differentially distributed among groups and it does measure something useful. And it is mostly inhereted. This sucks if you want to do useful social engineering. I agree that these facts suck. They will lead to much resentment. Yet still they are true.

Anonymous said...

***As for justification of the war in Iraq, you forgot to mention WMDs and oil - come on, did you lose that page of your talking points?***

So sorry to assume you were a Bush supporter. Anyway, quite clearly 9/11 was THE reason set forth for invading Iraq... and if you look at that blue/red map, most of the people who rabidly believed we needed to attack Saddam to avenge 9/11 were from places where the threat of terrorism doesn't exist.

Anonymous said...

I'm a Southerner and deem myself to be a pretty practical person.

Been reading DIW for some time and I gather that the majority of the posters are Liberal Democrats.

Among the posters, it seems like there's a general consensus that Nifong, Michaels, Marcotte, Murphy, et al, are nefarious charlatans and this has sent shock waves among the liberal faithful.

Doesn't surprise me. For some time I, too, have been shocked.

I was shocked when the AA community cheered when O.J. Simpson was found not "not guilty".

I was shocked when Marion Barry (D) Washington, DC, was re-elected.

I was shocked when William Jefferson(D), LA, was re-elected after the FBI found stashed in his freezer, $90,000.00 in marked bills.

I was shocked when I found out that North Carolinians, Alan Gell and Daryl Hunt, collectively spent 27 years on death row for crimes they did not commit.

Even more shocked to find out that Gell's case involved prosecutorial misconduct on the part of the NC AG's office.

It appears that the Duke Lacrosse Case has shocked some liberals into reality.

Welcome.

Anonymous said...

FYI Re Professor Tim Ball & Climate Change

Retired geography professor from the University of Winnipeg. He has been a contartian for years.
He is now a front man for a group that is funded by the Canadian oil and gas industry, great supporters of action (the less the better)on climate change.

Good gig to supplement one's income.

Here is a summary his recent speech in Winnipeg from a believer.

http://mutt-man.typepad.com/muttering_in_manitoba/

Like the Duke case, Climate change is about what you believe not what are the facts. You determine what you know is to be true, then construct your argument around these "truths". Anything that does not fit in is irrelevant and is disregarded.

Lastly regarding Mr. Michaels I believe he is using the Duke case to move himself up a number of levels within the newspaper sub-industry. It is all about reputation within his community and money.

Anonymous said...

10:22 As the orginal poster, I should clarify that I made no such comment regarding NYC. That came from another...

M. Simon said...

11:04 AM,

To get your facts updated search:

A. Q Kahn Iraq Libya

We busted the A. Q Kahn nuclear weapons ring by takuing out Saddam.

How soon some forget.

Anonymous said...

***It appears that the Duke Lacrosse Case has shocked some liberals into reality.***

Yes, I heard that due to the extreme actions of Nifong in this case, liberal groups like the ACLU are actually starting to pay attention to prosecutorial misconduct.

Look, I agree with you that Repulicans tend to care way more about the rights of the accused and about civil liberties. Finally, the ACLU is joining the Thomas Moore law center in protecting the accused from over-zealous, lying and cheating prosecutors.

Next thing you know, Mark Levin will be calling the ACLU the "American CRIMINAL Liberties Union".

Or do I have all of this backwards?

Anonymous said...

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but these three men are probably the ONLY time any of you CC's have cared about the rights of the accused. I, for one, care about these three men, as do I care about the rights of the accused nationwide, regardless of who they are.

The guilty should be thrown in prison. But only after every step is taken to ensure that only those who are actually guilty are put away.

Anonymous said...

11:06 Thank you madam/sir, THAT is the point.

Anonymous said...

11:18 You're kidding right?

Anonymous said...

11:18

Is that you, OJ?

Anonymous said...

"11:18 You're kidding right?

11:22 AM"

No, I'm not kidding. I care about these three men greatly, as I think they have been wrongfully accused. But it seems that unlike many of those on this board, it is an issue I have cared about, and will continue to care about in this case, but also beyond it.

Someone earlier posted something like "the liberals are finally catching on"... well it seems as though they are trying to co-opt an issue that has been primarily championed by those who are labeled "liberals" in a derogatory manner. Sorry, but the whole "exculpatory evidence" rule is really the product of who you'd deride as "liberals" fighting to ensure fairness for the accused.

M. Simon said...

I can pull the same trick with drug prohibition:

I ask - does prohibition prohibit anything? No.

Then why not end it? Because kids will get drugs.

Does prohibition prevent that? No. Then why not end it?

etc. til the end of time.

Anonymous said...

It gets worse every time I read here. Now global warming is part of the discussion of the Duke rape case.

I am at a loss as to what is motivating Cash Michaels and why he is so desperate over this case to the point of his recent article which is pure insanity.

Does he really think there is a chance in hell that the Attorney General is going to throw out sexual assault and kidnapping charges and charge these guys with misdemeanor robbery? He even seems to want to charge the McFadden kid, not any of the three guys currently on the hook for 30 years in prison?

The fact that the complainant never accuses anyone but Kim of stealing her money seems irrelevant to him. It's fine to believe she was wrong about who stole her money but right about who attacked her?

From just the political perspective wouldn't it be better to simply claim that 'something happened in the house' and due to Mike Nifong's poor handling of the case justice will not be done? That way at least you are blaming the white guy for all the trouble and still preserving the appearance that maybe something 'bad' happened to the accuser?

But to write a long, rambling article about the alleged theft of $200 which the police didn't even bother to include in the charges against the boys is beyond crazy.

Even if I assume, and I do, that Cash Michaels is a frothiing at the mouth white man hating racist, it still makes no sense. He looks like an idiot. I'm trying to see some longer term strategy here but I don't. THere is ZERO chance the AG is going to go back now, after 10 months of NC being the laughing stock of the country, and charge any players with stealing money that has in fact, never turned up anywhere. The mind boggles.

Anonymous said...

11:26

The Liberals are running the show in NC.

Do you actually think Conservatives could do worse?

Anonymous said...

As a former ADA, I can tell you what this new allegation really means. Basically, the state is trying to force these defendants to plead guilty to some meaningless "crime" for which they would be sentenced to a trivial fine or nothing at all. The defendants are thrilled to have a speedy & painless resolution of the case; the state is thrilled because a plea to anything (even a disorderly conduct charge) would preclude a successful civil suit. Prosecutors use these sorts of "deals" to squeeze innocent defendants into guilty pleas & out of wrongful prosecution suits all the time, but I expect that these particular defendants aren't playing ball, so the state's threatening to keep moving forward with the prosecution, hoping that mounting legal fees & perpetual stress over the trial will force these defendants to "be reasonable." Look, there's no way these defendants will ever be convicted of a crime, but don't be shocked if discretion proves the better part of valor & they wind-up pleading to some minor offense (soliciting a prostitute, underage drinking, disorderly conduct, etc.) stemming from this incident.

M. Simon said...

11:18AM,

I'm on the right these days. I still fight for the rights of the accused just as if I was on the left.

In fact in the early days despite KC's avowed Democrat leanings this board had mostly right wingers on it crying for uniform justice without respect to race or class or gender.

The righties said that this showed how DAs were railroading black folks who couldn't fight back. We said that those lefties supporting the bogus charges were doing blacks a disservice.

You can look it up.

Anonymous said...

I don't think they were charged with disorderly conduct or underage drinking were they?

There is ZERO chance they would plead to a robbery charge.

Furthermore, I don't think this is coming from the AG, if it was it would have been leaked to a more mainstream media outlet. This is coming from CASH MICHAELS.

Anonymous said...

***The righties said that this showed how DAs were railroading black folks who couldn't fight back. We said that those lefties supporting the bogus charges were doing blacks a disservice.

You can look it up.***

M. Simon, I can wholeheartedly agree with you that there are rightwingers who made those arguments, just as there were leftwingers who used this case (which seemed plausible at the very beginning because of the way Nifong acted) as a sword to advance their own agendas...

But I also think you can agree that the idiotic actions of people on the right and on the left (in any situation, not just the Duke case) are used as strawmen to attack others with different opinions, unrelated to the opportunists.

Clearly only a half-wit would argue that bad Democrats in Durham mean that Democrats who support these boys (from Durham or otherwise) have to answer for this prosecutors actions. Its ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Also, M. Simon, for anyone to use this case as an argument that righties care more about the rights of the accused than lefties is being completely disingenuous. For example, the ACLU is accused every day of being "America haters" or "terrorist sympathizers" by Bill O'Reilly and his ilk. The most benign treatment they get from the conservative press is that they put liberty interests above safety.

Well the ACLU has been fighting for the rights of the accused for a very long time, including guys they probably hate personally, like Rush Limbaugh (who welcomed their amicus brief filed on his behalf).

Anonymous said...

KC and Liestoppers have indeed deconstructed Mr. Michael's idiotic contentions. The problem is that his primary audience will swallow them hook, line and sinker.

AMac said...

anon 11:44am wrote --

Clearly only a half-wit would argue that bad Democrats in Durham mean that Democrats who support these boys (from Durham or otherwise) have to answer for this prosecutors actions. Its ridiculous.

Anon 11:44am, interesting point. Can you name any of the "Democrats from Durham" whom you have in mind?

To be relevant, you'd have to be referring to people who spoke out publically in favor of the factual innocence of the indicted men (or at least in favor of the application of Due Process to the case). And at the time M. Simon was talking about, "early on"--say, by the fall?

The Mayor, city councilors, county officers, elected local, state, federal officers, party activists, party committee members? I am not aware of any Durham Democrats who spoke out in favor ot the rights of the accused. Hopefully, you can correct me on this.

Anonymous said...

My point was simple. Nifong's actions cannot logically be imputed to anyone and everyone who also is a member of the Democratic party.

I don't care if every single Democrat in Durham acted unfairly and illogically (a laughable assertion to begin with). I'm not from Durham, and I wouldn't have to defend the actions of other Democrats in Durham even if I were from Durham.

That being said, if we were going to get into a great big debate over which party/idealogy tends to care more about, and proactively take actions to protect, the rights of the accused... I have a feeling that the side with the ACLU will probably win.

I just hope that you realize that the way you impute the actions of others to Democrats generally makes you liable to respond for anything and everything that a Republican, anywhere in the country, has done.

Anonymous said...

Carolyn says:

Cash Michaels frightens me.

Until the Duke rape case, I stupidly believed that once the facts came out, then truth HAD to be acknowledged. Once the DNA, the time photos, the eyewitness testimony, Crystal Mangum's lies, the lab admitting it hid evidence for Nifong, etc., all came out, these facts would make it impossible to deny the truth.

Cash Michaels frightens me because he proves that, for people like him, no facts will EVER be enough to acknowledge the truth.

Anonymous said...

12:41

Is it possible to be anti-democrat without being pro-republican? This is not a constructive approach to the problem. Depending upon politicians from either party to do the right thing is indeed naive.

I live in Durham, the politicians here are as corrupt as you can imagine. A town this evil cannot exist without help from the power structure. The fact that the politicians are democrats is just that - a fact. Would having republicans in charge change things? We'll never know. This town gets what it deserves...

gs said...

Pat 12:43

Good point about the chance Cash M. had to do real journalism. He did ruin his chance for the mainstream.

KC is has written op pieces for the Wall ST Journal, and The Post as well as appearing on news programs. Cash must be kicking himself.

But let's not forget that the Durham Sun also had a chance to be a major source of truth in this story and for some unknown reason decided to support Nifong.

I wonder if the politicians and Ashley quitly asked Nifong if he had the goods on the kids and Nifong lied and said "I got them cold".

When the new DAs dismiss the charges, the bar will know he railroaded the kids and they will disbar him, not for what he did, but for who the public views Law in NC.

AMac said...

anon 12:41pm wrote this in response to my 12:32pm comment:

I just hope that you realize that the way you impute the actions of others to Democrats generally makes you liable to respond for anything and everything that a Republican, anywhere in the country, has done.

Anon 12:41pm, chill. I haven't imputed actions of others to Democrats. The 12:32pm was a response to your quip about "Durham Democrats." (It turns out you had no basis for that, but somebody might still provide evidence that some did speak out.)

Even if I was a Republican (I'm not), how would your claim about Durham Democrats make me "liable to respond for anything and everything that a Republican, anywhere in the country, has done"?

You probably have me mixed up with one of the many "anons" writing in. A good reason to use a screen name.

Anonymous said...

My goodness. This blog meanders all over the place.

If you want to read more AGW Scepticism, try www.climateaudit.org.

Of course, there is also RealClimate, but they are a pretty shrill AGW site.

Anonymous said...

Dare I speculate that those bringing charges against Mike Nifong (the members of the State bar) consist -- for the most part -- of Democrats and liberals? The attorneys for the boys? They card-carrying Republicans?

Anonymous said...

Of course the idea that Mike Nifong is evil and a Democrat, ergo all Democrats are inherently evil is falacious and silly, but that won't stop the right wing from using Nifong as a hammer against all Democrats everywhere and all liberals everywhere.

Anonymous said...

Let us also not forget that this case is an anathema. While this is pure speculation on my part, my impression of this case is that a LOT of people care about it for reasons other than the blatant misconduct of Mike Nifong.

There simply is no other explanation for the amount of attention this case gets. I believe that the attention is merited in this horrible Duke case, as well as so many others that most of the posters here will never care enough about to rant and rave about. DNA exonerations, coerced confessions, turncoat informants copping very favorable plea bargains, etc.

I mean, as horrible as Nifong has treated these boys, its not exactly something novel. Yes, his actions were particularly egregious in this matter... but Nifong's treatment of exculpatory evidence in this matter is NOT something new, anywhere in the country.

Anonymous said...

*meant to say abberation at the beginning of my post!*

Anonymous said...

Polanski says

Interesting how NPR and other MSM turn black history month (BHM) into a G88 Studies class.

The raison d'etre of BHM is to advocate for reparations, affirmative action, redistribution of wealth, set-asides, and the financial health of Angry Studies.

END BLACK HISTORY MONTH

PS--any information about Houston Baker's participation in a rape, or Karla Holloway's coverup is appreciated

Anonymous said...

11:18 Actually I care more about the victims. And in this instance the 3 young men, the team, and the students are victims.

Anonymous said...

***11:18 Actually I care more about the victims. And in this instance the 3 young men, the team, and the students are victims.***

I agree wholeheartedly that the 3 men are the victims here. I apologize if my language was unclear in the 11:18 post. I genuinely believe that this is the ONLY case in which most of the posters here ever took such outrage over the treatment of the accused. Surely, these men have been abused badly by Nifong and the system. Sadly, it is much more common than any of you seem to care about. I care about this case, and so many others where the accused are the abused. You all seem to care ONLY about this case (whatever your reasons may be, and believe me, some of the possible motives involve the race of the accuser and the accused).

Regardless, I'm glad that at least SOME of you realize that what is important here is the support of the boys, not taking backhanded slaps at Democrats or liberals, simply because Nifong is a Democrat.

Jim said...

I know this is the global warming board, but I found something interesting about that Duke lacrosse case:

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/NEWSREC0101/70206007

Jim said...

Html:

duke

Anonymous said...

To 11:33: You are sadly mistaken if you think any of these young men will plead out on any charge, be it kidnapping, assualt or petty robbery or an outstanding parking ticket. They did not do the any of the crimes they have been accused of. The state and the DA attempted to ruin their reputations, they and their families have lived untold grief and stress for almost a year. They will not plead, instead if it means they take it to court and ravage Crystal, DA Nifong, the DPD whatever it takes to get justice and return their good names back to them that is what will be done. This is not only about dropping the charges, this is about dropping the charges and without a doubt, absolute clearing of their names and each and every lie, coverup and false allegation will be laid to bare for all to see.

M. Simon said...

2:15PM,

It is not just Nifong, It is also the Angry Studies industry which is on the left as well. i.e. Gang of 88. People who have politiicized innate differences.

Democrats and lefties have their fingers all over this one.

Anonymous said...

What party affiliation does Joe Chesire have?

How many guesses do you need?

AMac said...

Anon 11:18pm/2:15pm wrote --

I care about this case, and so many others where the accused are the abused. You all seem to care ONLY about this case (whatever your reasons may be, and believe me, some of the possible motives involve the race of the accuser and the accused).

Anon, I think you only are taking the side of the lacrosse players because you are a misogynist. (Believe me, some of your possible motives involve a history of tawdry behavior.)

Come to think of it, Anon 11:18pm/2:15pm, I don't find making broad, unsupported charges quite as satisfying as I thought I would. I'm not even sure if tossing out ad hominem attacks really grants me superior moral status in the eyes of this blog's readers.

So, for my part, I withdraw the unfounded accusation, and apologize for offering it in the first place.

Anonymous said...

3:11

Don't need to guess.

Fact:

Attorneys Joseph Cheshire and Wade Smith are registered Democrats.

Anonymous said...

Carolyn asks:

Does anyone know whether Dave Evans has a job? I understand his prior job vanished the moment he was indicted. Has he been able to find work since then?

Also - has anyone been able to find out the details on Professor Baker's sexual assault of a grad student a few years ago in New York?

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

I would love to watch a good attorney question Crystal Gail Mangum on the stand. That would be awe inspiring. Not that her answers would sway a Durham jury - mustn't let facts get in the way.

Anonymous said...

Carolyn 3:45

I'd guess that each of the boys, after taxes and attorneys' fees, will net $25 million.

Dave is probably seeking out investment advisors, and deciding what he really wants to do with his life.

Polanski

Anonymous said...

Carolyn,

Not to mention cash from book deals, lectures, and film/TV.

The boys are a litigator's dream come true.

svolich said...

1:35 - I think the arguement is a little more subtle than that.

For many years liberals - mostly democrats - have framed the difference between the factions as virtue (liberals) vrs greed (conservatives). Even when Marion Barry is found smoking crack, Bill Jefferson is found with cold cash, or Bill Clinton is found doing the intern, in their own party they are still held as decent human beings. After all, the logic goes, no matter what they've don't they're better than those bible-thumping neo-con Rethuglicans.

The Duke hoax resonates (in this area) because it goes against the conventional wisdom. Democrats are NOT pure by definition. There are bad guys that have a D after their name.

The R's have gotten pretty good at throwing scoundrels out of power. See how fast they threw Duncan Hunter overboard - or Mark Foley, or Newt Gingrich back in 98. They've HAD to - because they've been hammered with the "corrupt hypocrite" label since Watergate.

The crooked fraction of the Democratic party has basically gotten a free ride.

Maybe this will change that. But I doubt it.

Anonymous said...

I'm so glad that Bill Anderson brought to this forum the letter-to-the-editor by that gruesome freak Robert Paul....published in the Herald-Sun today.

I've been busy and just got a chance to check out some of today's offerings. When I read this man's letter I almost threw up.

One must have some background on this blooming idiot. Personally, I don't know him from Adam or Eve; however, when he wrote a letter attacking me earlier this year because I criticized Mike Nifong---very early on---I made a point to check into this pos.

I was taken aback that someone I didn't---or wouldn't---know, would make such an effort to attack the lovely Debrah in such a petty and sissified way.

Apparently, this strange man has a lot of free time on his hands and attempting to mind-read and spew his muddy and molded left-over Woodstock bile onto anyone to the right of Barbra Streisand is his obsession.

Someone needs to tell Paul that even Joni Mitchell has moved on. The mistress of Yasgur's Farm is now a capitalist and does not wallow in the muddy flower child haze of yesteryear.

We all know the mentality of the editorial staff at the Herald-Sun. They are only too happy to have a lingering idiot like Robert Paul still try to crucify the three lacrosse players.

If there were even one objective professional on the current Herald-Sun editorial staff, Paul's type of lunacy never would go to print.

Robert Paul is a 60-something leftover Liberal whose future---whatever it might be---is way in his past.

Someone should just slap him---a la Cher to Nicholas Cage in "Moonstruck"---and tell this stupid son-of-an-obvious-bitch to "snap out of it" and stop spending his time attacking three young men whose futures make his dismal and petty life look like chalk in a rainstorm.

To the idiot Robert Paul: Even though the lovely Debrah has already rubbed your leftover, petty Liberal mug in the dirt.....as being the predictable simpleton that you are.....I further wish for you a trove of very bad karma for attacking...still.....after all the evidence of their innocence has been revealed to the world...three young men who leave nuts like you in the dust.

Go to hell, Robert Paul.

You are, no doubt, the residue of a former government employee.....dependent on the taxpayers for a "pension"......

.....making a clown like Mike Nifong an "on-the-take-heir-apparent" to your idiocy.

When ever-expectant Liberal parasites like you have expired, this world will be a better place.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Carolyn says:

Polanski and 4:05 post:

Ahh, man, I hope you BOTH are right! If you are, I'll crack a bottle of Veuve Clicquot in your honor!

Anonymous said...

Carolyn---

A very good choice.

I uncorked one of those when KC announced that Nifong was off the case.

:>)

Debrah

Anonymous said...

To grotesque urchins like Robert Paul and the lowgrade Duke 88, I dedicate in your honor......

.....a bloody rare piece of meat.......with "a good Chianti".


Thanks Hannibal Lechter!


Debrah

scot said...

KC
you have down it again.
you got my vote for tribune of the people!

scot said...

i wanted to say done
maybe im down with you tribune
maybe thats what we might need in this country
some tribune's
thanks KC

Anonymous said...

Scot - try using punctuation and capitalization - those, combined with standard English will greatly enhance your communications. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Please, will the english majors go back into the woodwork? Not everyone here has the benefit of an expensive education. Besides, its rude.