Monday, April 16, 2007

Continued Character Assault

Over the last few days, some in the media have seemed unable to let go of the character assault on the three falsely accused players. Whether editorial pages at the Globe or the Washington Post, scattered internet commentators, or a figure such as Nightline co-host Terry Moran, there seems a desperate attempt to continue to pass character judgment on Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, and Dave Evans.

I responded to such arguments in a piece for ABCNews.com, available here.

77 comments:

Anonymous said...

And, as noted elsewhere, it is particularly galling to see the ink spilled over the life threatning insult of Don Imus (an insult that would never have reached the team but for the media) while downplaying the injury to the Duke team. If the Rutgers team had been disbanded shortly before the tournament on false charges, three of its players arrested, and the entire team picketed, based on the allegations of a privileged acccuser, would that have been less painful then the ramblings of Imus. Don't get me wrong, Imus should not be picking on college students, but the chest tightning horror of Nifong, the physical threats, the financial devastation, to downplay is sick sick sick.

Anonymous said...

I was being sarcastic above on the "less painful" comment.

Chicago said...

Excellent piece KC. It is so sad that some people still find it neccesary to sling mud at these young men and their family's after all they have been through.

Anonymous said...

Why does the last line in the bio say "ran one of the most popular blogs" instead of "runs"?

Anonymous said...

The London School of Economics sounds like an excellent choice for Collin, given the continued hate in the states.

Anonymous said...

KC This is tragic. They must really hate these boys and themselves. They just do not want to let this go. I also hope Collin and Reade are picked up by a great school. disgracefull

Anonymous said...

It is so painful to see these students leave Duke, my alma mater. I think they should go to other schools, if Reade can go to Harvard now, why not!! It is painful, though, because 1) hearing them speak and express themselves shows that they are strong thoughtful people who would have been great alums and 2) it shows how badly they are mistreated by Duke to leave behind friends and teammates. Not once did they thank the university, of course, or anyone associated with its faculty or administration, except for Coleman. All these people calling these guys "louts" and not "choirboys"--what planet are they on. If you line up the eloquence and credentials of these three, or the whole team, against the critics (or their children) the lacrosse team will outclass them everytime.

Crazy.

Anonymous said...

Great column.

My guess for why so many columnists continue to disparage the three boys is they were so convinced of their guilt and most likely wrote and spoke such hateful things about them, they need SOME justification for their vitriol. The best they can do is excoriate college students for drinking and partying. Sad to see so many adults in posistions of responsibility act so childish.

Jack said...

When will the message hit home? It is in the interest, the commercial interest, of all modern media outlets, to heighten the public's sense of curiosity, anguish, outrage, titillation, you name the emotion, all in the name of ratings. I remain unconvinced these authors, reporters, talking heads do not have the same understanding of the facts of the case as KC, and others on this site. The editors, the un-civil rights leaders, the sorry Duke faculty members - they know what really did not happen, they truly know that the accuser was making things up, whether she knew it or not. This case has, or should have provided the American public with some insight as to how vacuous are the institutions we rely on for information. Duke University? Ghastly behavior. MSNBC, NY Times, NAACP, the local newspapers and women’s groups– no one, not one single citizen should expect anything more of them than what you saw and read. We have billions of capital devoted to these entertainment conglomerates, with divisions masquerading as "news". Wall Street demands revenues, profits; advertisers demand attentive audiences, demographically spliced. Your mutual funds, pensions and 401k’s are depending on this. They are nothing more than massive consumer spending facilitators - the next sound you hear (if it makes any sound at all) is a straw being inserted into your wallets)

Complain all you want, and these are legitimate objections…just remember: we’re all in this deeper than we realize.

Nifong's hat trick said...

KC
So glad to see you are all over Terry Moron! Now it's time to take on the G88 in a post-innocent interview, will they let anyone near them?
God Bless those at VA Tech.

Anonymous said...

i think TERRRY "bigego" MORAN needs to be IMUS'D...

he must have friends on the GROUP of 88...that he feels a need to defend...as well as the "GUEN MAID" who thinks she was denied promotions...both have the same sense of anti americanism...but the LOUT who runs ABCNEWS, david the liberal westin, supports the use of infective against people of wealth

Anonymous said...

Well, the V-Tech story will be the story of the week. This one is officially dead...except for the niche community that continues to follow it.

GPrestonian said...

3:03pm Anon

Why does the last line in the bio say "ran one of the most popular blogs" instead of "runs"?

"It's over now, move along. Nothing to see here, please return to your homes."

Anonymous said...

HARVARD IGNORES THE GROUP OF 88

A Disastrous Undoing at Duke

Hindsight reveals a distressing mockery of a case

Published On Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:52 PM

By THE CRIMSON STAFF




ARTICLE TOOLS:
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In Durham, North Carolina, it appears as though the public furor and media frenzy will finally be put to rest, but the tragic consequences of the Duke lacrosse rape case will sadly endure for decades. The prosecution was botched, mishandled by most of its participants and, blown wildly out of proportion by an overeager media. And worst of all, the case’s disastrous disintegration does violence to the atmosphere of discourse and privacy with regard to sexual abuse accusations in America.

While accusations of rape on the part of an alleged victim must always be taken seriously, here that respect dissolved into unquestioning credulity. As power left the hands of the accuser and passed into the hands of District Attorney Mike Nifong, another series of unprofessional misjudgments began. Nifong allegedly demonstrated personal disdain for the attorneys representing the accused, appeared to have violated the policies of Durham Police Department in conducting a lineup, and ultimately pursued a case rife with holes and hearsay, an abject abuse of the district attorney’s fundamental task of pursuing justice and justice alone.

The American legal system, convoluted though it may be, is bound at its axis to the idea of finding and reaching justice while taking into account the lives and livelihoods of both accuser and accused. The Duke lacrosse players who were named saw a raucous media circus form up around them, and their identities were made known around the world. The notion of being innocent until proven guilty was polluted, and the stigma of the accusations—false though they may have been—is permanently grafted to their names.

Even beyond the gnarled ruins this case made of its participants, there lies on its behalf a lasting scar on the American attitude toward sexual assault. The discussion of the crime here was undermined by the fervor about the case and its ensuing collapse. This dilutes the public understanding of the crime and its pervasiveness, and represents a strike against the just resolution of genuine instances of sexual assault.

Of course, what’s done is done, and there exists only the opportunity to do no further damage. We hope that the media does not delve into a critique of the revealed identity of the players’ accuser. While the charges brought by the accuser are now false in the eyes of the law, she deserves no further assault upon her character. Further dissection will only deter women who actually weathered sexual assault from coming forward, both on college campuses and across the country.

The aftermath in Durham is devastating, and there appears only one benefit left within the wreckage: a lesson about how to better manage and approach accusations of rape and how to maintain respect and dignity for everyone involved.

bill anderson said...

Part of the problem is that the media people are angry that these guys clearly had done nothing. However, since they are governed by their previous meta-narratives, they had no choice in their minds but to engage in character assassination.

Selena Roberts did the same thing, and Barry Saunders of the N&O already was engaged in character assassination the day after Cooper made his announcement.

Here is the email I sent to Saunders:

Barry,

After seeing Reade Seligmann on television in interviews, I am wondering why you felt compelled to engage in outright character assassination against him. What did Reade Seligmann ever do to you or to anyone else? He clearly did not rape or even touch Crystal, or engage in any racial slurs. Yet, you just went after him as though he were Public Enemy Number One. Why?

Were you that angry that he had been right and you were deprived of being able to call him a rapist? All I want to know is why, because I think what you did was wrong, simply wrong, and I would hope that no one treats you in the way that you have treated others.

Bill Anderson

Ricardo said...

As a Duke grad I am sorry that Collin and Reade probably will not return, but I can certainly understand their reasons. On the other hand, I certainly cannot understand why journalists would continue to criticize them for drinking beer and going to a party. Did these journalists study in a Trappist monastery before changing professions?

Anonymous said...

Reade and Collin should each enroll at UNC.

Gary Packwood said...

List of Characters are writing their own History

Seems to me KC that many secondary actors are writing their own chapter for your book.

Be sure and snag the commenter from the Don't Feel Sorry for the Dookies piece...who is happy that the three guys got 'a little taste' of what poor folks have experienced.

Your book just wouldn't be complete without quotes from three or four jerks who babble away about 'a little taste' of injustice.

If I can find time tonight I'll Google around and see if that commenter is advocating for all of us to experience 'a little taste' of cancer.
GP

Nifong's hat trick said...

Hope the pot bangers and G88 are on their way up to Columbia U to protest the rape and burning of a 23 yr old Columbia student by a black male. Last statistics I read report that black on white rape has a 70% higher rate than white on black rape. Does anyone know if this is a current stat?

Anonymous said...

Bravo. Nice article KC.

Anonymous said...

UNC? You've GOT to be kidding....

Anonymous said...

Interesting point - would this event have unfolded as it did had it occurred at UNC in Chapel Hill? My initial reaction is “no”. There’s no denying that the athletes are capable of doing something just as tasteless, and weekends in the dorms and frat houses, the beer is not restricted to those over 21. But I doubt very much there would be as much of a display of disdain, antipathy towards Carolina as we have seen the local residents vent at Duke. Carolina, as a public university, has a closer connection to the community, locally and throughout the state of North Carolina. Academically, it is strong, and for out of state applicants, it is much in demand and statistically improbable for even top students to expect acceptance. Even the physical layout of the two schools conveys their respective, symbolic accessibility. UNC rolls right up onto Franklin Street, the McCorkle quad providing a beautiful approach to the old campus. Just a few steps from a coffee shop or apparel store. From other points around campus, just drive right in and there you are. Duke, on the other hand, is surrounded by the Forrest, seemingly sealed off from its surroundings – you can come in, but be sure, you are entering a “different place”. Likewise, Carolina has never touted the social exclusivity that Duke has. Oh, to be sure, it has its moneyed kids, second, third even fourth generation Tar Heels. Many residents of the area and state wide, particularly life-long Carolinians, feel a connection to the school, regardless of any other affiliations, whether they may have gone to college at all. You might say the same about N.C.State. Go to football games and talk to tailgaters in the Fairgrounds in Raleigh – you will find a lot who’s only connection to the school is they are from the state. In the Dean Dome, many season ticket holders come from as far away as Greensboro. Why? Because they just grew up a fans, it’s “their team”. Drive through neighborhoods and along the local and county roads of North Carolina – flags, banners, stickers and shirts proclaiming allegiance and support for the Wolf Pack and Tar Heels. The Blue Devils? Not likely.

All this talk of class and privilege is interesting, and perhaps people had Duke in their sights for a long time, with this event giving them an opening.

Anyhow, that's my meta-narrative.

Anonymous said...

BTW, there's a nice piece on KC in Canada's National Post. Although I thought the reference to you as a "midnight blogger" and to the accused as "the three white privileged lacrosse players" a bit condescending.

Anonymous said...

4:56 is Dead On Target. Besides, Chapel Hill is all upscale white....Jesse Jackson and Sharpton would have needed police protection just to get into town. They would have had no ghetto audience to incite.

Anonymous said...

Many of the comments on this site seem to attribute the exoneration of the 3 Duke players to this site and others like it. While I agree that the 3 players were the true victims and the case was a travesty from the beginning, their ultimate vindication had more to do with having top rate legal talent than it did with the fact that a NYC professor became obsessed with the case. Bloggers taking credit for the successful outcome of the case is like football fans who have just watched the game on TV taking credit for the hometeam's win because they crossed their fingers during the game winning field goal. I would rather have a good criminal lawyer on my side than a million bloggers...especially if he or she knows the judge!

another.anon said...

"Although I thought the reference to you as a "midnight blogger" [snip] a bit condescending."


KC always posts his scheduled topic at 12.01. 'Midnight blogger' works for me!

Joe T. said...

anon 5:02 : I doubt Jackson and Sharpton would need police protection if they visited the all-white school. Even being who they are, if we go by crime statistics, they'd be more likely getting injured by a "ghetto" crowd ("ghetto"- your terminology).

Lionel said...

"freedom of the press" doesn't equate to "freedom of expression" unless everybody owns a press;

the Net has brought that ideal closer than ever before in human history.

even that can't protect citizens from bureaucracy unless citizens choose to make it function - as KC Johnson chose to do, to the advantage of Justice generally and three falsely accused folk specifically.

this is particularly inspiring to me personally.

like the Duke trio, i was arrested on fictitious (and hideous) charges, and jailed without proper investigation of them.

like the students, i was freed when those charges were dismissed.
(after seven months in jail and another year on house-arrest).

as in the lacrosse-team case, charges were dropped only after it became obvious that the case was so flawed that it could not succeed if brought to trial.

my neighbors are the ones who came forward to witness in my behalf;

they're the ones who gathered affidavits, and put up their homes as security for my bond.

they also helped record official misconduct - in my case, as in the Duke case, that was a major factor.

when a nation's legal structure has become as corrupt as ours, the only real protection available to common citizens comes from other citizens.

so, KC - a tip o' the hat to you and my neighbors together, on behalf of the Duke boys and myself, and all who would have caught hell but for the like of you.

bill anderson said...

I would not go so far as to say that DIW and other blogging sites were the reason that the young men were exonerated. However, the blogs helped keep the pressure on officials and others who made decisions.

One cannot underestimate the power of bad publicity, and Nifong and others received a lot of that. Furthermore, the blogs provided a better variety of stories than came from the MSM, and it also provided a forum for experts such as Kathleen Eckelt and others who were able to publicly take this case apart.

Yes, no one takes anything from the attorneys, but think of the effect that posting motions on the Internet had. Look, had we depended upon the MSM, as we did in the pre-Internet days, does ANYONE think that millions of people would have seen Reade Seligmann's alibi?

The power of the web is something that cannot be easily calculated.

Michael said...

The Boston Globe is also carrying a story about the rush to judgement: A rush to injustice in the Duke 'rape' case by Cathy Young

Surprising coming from the Globe.

A rush to injustice in the Duke 'rape' case

By Cathy Young | April 16, 2007

IN MAY 2006, the women's lacrosse team at Duke University announced their intention to wear sweatbands with the word "innocent" for a Final Four game at Boston University's Nickerson Field. This gesture was a clear statement of support for the three Duke lacrosse players accused of sexually assaulting an exotic dancer at a team party. In response, New York Times sports columnist Harvey Araton suggested that "cross-team friendship" had overridden the women's common sense. In the online magazine Salon , writer Kevin Sweeney chided them for lack of solidarity with rape victims.

Now, it looks like the women's lacrosse team had it right. Last week, North Carolina attorney general Roy Cooper dismissed all charges against the Duke Three. He also explicitly stated that the men were innocent and that no attack had occurred. It's as full a vindication as the justice system can give.

Cooper described the case against the men as the result of "a tragic rush to accuse." This rush came not only from prosecutor Mike Nifong, who now faces serious charges of misconduct, but also from the media, the academic community at Duke, and feminist advocates for rape victims.

As writer Charlotte Allen has documented in The Weekly Standard, academics were quick to tailor the still-unfolding case to a narrative of sexual abuse of a downtrodden black woman at the hands of privileged white males -- males who, in the words of Duke literature professor Wahneema Lubiano, represented "the politically dominant race and ethnicity [and] the dominant gender." Much of the media echoed this narrative, albeit in more readable form.

Yet serious doubts about the accuser's credibility existed from the very beginning. Her story kept changing, even on such significant details as how many players assaulted her. The material evidence did not corroborate her charges and in some instances contradicted them. The other stripper who was at the party said that she did not believe the woman was raped.

But many people wouldn't let the facts get in the way of a good crusade. Eighty-eight Duke faculty members signed a statement, drafted by Lubiano, that expressed solidarity with the students who rallied against the accused. Its language was drenched in a presumption of guilt.

On a national level, one leader of this crusade was Wendy Murphy, a Boston-based former sex crimes prosecutor and an adjunct professor at the New England School of Law. Murphy, a frequent cable news commentator, is a foremost champion of the dogma that women who accuse men of rape always tell the truth. In one discussion on MSNBC, she proclaimed, "I have never, ever met a false rape claim. . . . My own statistics speak to the truth."

Whatever Murphy's "truth" may be, her television appearances on the Duke case became a gold mine of disinformation. Among other things, she falsely asserted that there had been allegations of other sexual offenses involving the accused men, that the woman was violated with a broomstick and had tears in her genital area, and that the defendants had refused to cooperate with the police. She also speculated, without evidence, that photographs might exist of the actual assault and that the victim probably had traces of a date-rape drug in her blood. On several occasions, Murphy also derided the principle of the presumption of innocence, except as narrowly applied in the courtroom.

Unfortunately, Murphy's views are not unique among feminists. In January, when the most serious charges had already been dismissed, Gail Dines, a professor at Wheelock College in Boston, wrote an online article criticizing CNN for airing a special sympathetic to the accused. Citing Murphy as her source, she asserted that prosecution still had a strong case. She voiced "anger at the way the media humanized these men as victims and dehumanized the woman as the perpetrator of a lie."

In fact, it's about time we humanized men who are victims of false accusations of rape. Feminism has made great strides in bringing attention to the tragedy of rape and the pain of its victims. Now, the Duke case may bring much-needed focus to the tragedy of false accusations. It is not anti female to say that some women do lie about rape -- any more than it is anti male to say that some men rape women. The vindication of the Duke Three may in the end be a victory for true gender equity.

Anonymous said...

"Besides, Chapel Hill is all upscale white....Jesse Jackson and Sharpton would have needed police protection just to get into town."

You must either be kidding or have no idea of the political leanings of Chapel Hill. Jesse and Al would be welcome with open arms, for the majority of Chapel Hill "thinks" like them.

It's mindset not skin color.

james conrad said...

RE; bill anderson....agreed. in my view, the power of the web is profound in so many ways. first, its 24/7 and instant analysis by experts in any given field. second, this blog and others were cited by lawyers representing these kids as a resource they used daily. finally, without this blog and KCs intimate knowledge of the politics in academia, would the world know what a mess agenda driven teachers and their enablers in administration has made in this case? i think not

Anonymous said...

KC, it's vigilante fact-hunters like you, who studiously and methodically investigate injustice, that keep my faith in freedom and democracy. I know it's a far-fetched connection, but your work here makes me believe in the human spirit. Don't ever stop.

Anonymous said...


The Boston Globe is also carrying a story about the rush to judgement: A rush to injustice in the Duke 'rape' case by Cathy Young

Surprising coming from the Globe.

A rush to injustice in the Duke 'rape' case

By Cathy Young | April 16, 2007


Bingo! Not surprising at all.

Anonymous said...

It's hard to imaging people are really out there that can agree with Terry Moran:


http://field-negro.blogspot.com/2007/01/no-tears-for-dukies.html

duke09parent said...

I looked back at the Moran article and the comments following must number over 500, although they are not counted. Probably 50:1 condemning the article.

On where Reade should go? Harvard Blechhh! Go to Yale, Reade, at least there you wouldn't have to change the color scheme of most of your clothes (Blue and White). But first go back and calculate when you would graduate and make sure it's not on the same reunion cycle as Brodhead's (every 5 years).

[Conflict of interest disclosure: I am Yale College Class of '73]

Jacqueline said...

UNC???! Friends don't let friends go to UNC. Just kidding.

God bless VA Tech.

Georgia Girl said...

On KC's comments for ABCnews.com, I believe it's possible to hold two thoughts in mind:

1) the 3'ers are innocent of all 3 charges.

2) on the flip side, they were part of a booze-sex-fueled environment that finally erupted.

NOT FAIR what happened to these 3 guys, but think about it .... If not at Duke, then it would inevitably happen on some other campus.

Elsewhere, yes, God Bless Va Tech.
Now, what's going on?
I've been following the coverage. Not a single reporter has asked whether the killer was hispanic, asian, indian, black, white. Would a reporter be "fired" for asking such a question?

Does ANYBODY get the feeling that certain MINORITY GROUPS are scurrying around attempting to manage "damage control"?

I'll probably eat crow on this, but a blog is a blog is a blog.

Evan Duke 1990 said...

KC,

Bravo! As a grad, I thank you for your role in the pursit of justice for our alma mater.

God Bless the students and family of our ACC colleagues at VT.

hman said...

Georgia Girl... honey child, let me put it this way. The devastation wrought by Precious and Mike Nifong did not need an under-aged beer drinking party to make it happen. That pair, working together like they did, could make anyones life a living hell without any true facts whatsoever. After all they showed in this case that their victims do not even have to have been in the same room with The Accuser - because her buddy nifong could rig a line-up to put you there.
So please explain just wtf you are going on about.

Anonymous said...

Georgia-
Go crochet your ass to the wall.

Anonymous said...

Georgia Girl,

A booze sex-fueled environment? I guess you haven't seen the photos taken at the party. I can tell you that the lamest frat party ever is about 100 times more booze and sex fueled than that.

Even if I accepted your charaterization, which I don't, is a booze, sex-fueled environment unprecedented in the history of college aged males? God, someone cue up the Fox News Alert.

Anonymous said...

PICK ANY THREE

The continued harrangues against the exonerated three show a lot of dishonesty supported by laziness.

What the detractors are doing is conflating: 1) a history of lacrosse team loutish behavior (most of which predates the two youngest players); 2) whatever current misdeeds of the team (including 44 guys who were not the defendants); and 3) whatever sins of the three indicted players.

What were those sins of the three? Couple of beers? Any link to the racist comments? Were they even there?

The problem is, people who should know better have simply done what the accuser did -- "pick any three". Of course, Ms. Mangum is a mentally ill substance abuser. The others who are deperately clinging to this discredited story are some of the most expensively and exquisitely educated people in America. It is sad that closed- mindedness fueled by lots of education can reduce people to the level of a mentally ill, substance abusing prostitute.

SAVANT

Anonymous said...

How about this from NYU student paper ?

http://media.www.nyunews.com/media/storage/paper869/news/2007/04/16/Opinion/Duke-Lax.Players.Like.Britney.Are.Not.That.Innocent-2843051.shtml

Incredible !

Georgia Girl said...

7:28 said "The devastation wrought by Precious and Mike Nifong did not need an under-aged beer drinking party to make it happen"

So what's your point?

Georgia Girl said...

7:42 said "is a booze, sex-fueled environment unprecedented in the history of college aged males?"

No ... it's the norm. That's exactly my point. If not at Duke, then it would certainly happen somewhere else.

Off thread, the latest press conference re the Va Tech incident .... NO INFO ON THE KILLER. Why am I not surprised.

Georgia Girl said...

i'd also like to say what if ...

what if jesse jackson had stood along side the 3-ers and their families the day the final 2 charges were droppped.

what if, on that day, he had spoken (if only briefly) on the fact that these guys were INNOCENT.

Can you imagine what his support might have done for race relations? ... the conservatives vs. the radical left.

Jack said...

To anonymous @ 8:03

Yes, it is a thoroughly obnoxious article, all the more so due to it's baseless, crass flippant tone, reliance on hearsay gossip, and so full of resentment. At least the responses, hopefully from NYU students, were heartening.

Anonymous said...

7 15

i cant imagine that you are employed by a fortune 50 company

one of the benefits of age experience and working for the top global corporations is that one learn management lessons

the swiss long ago REALIZED that FOUR EYES are better than two

KC has attracted a group of intellectually savy contributors to along with his outstanding intellectual curiosity, analytical brilliance and smooth communication skills

the reason youre a dummy is because you dont have the confidence to respect someone elses intelligence like KC

and you never will

thats good, the way the market works is that smart people succeed at the expense of dummies like you

Anonymous said...

Georgia girl asks:


Does ANYBODY get the feeling that certain MINORITY GROUPS are scurrying around attempting to manage "damage control"?


Well, the rumors coming out are that he was asian, and perhaps even east-asian, which makes it very unusual. They tend to be less violence prone than whites are.

Still, it is also said that he was a jilted lover, and he wanted to kill both her and her new boyfriend.

Anonymous said...

I think the worst thing in this whole case, and it's just coming out now, is how bad the behavior of Nifong really was. I mean, what he was doing, as the story unfolds, is like something out of your worst backwoods crooked sheriff movies.

I was hoping that we'd find there were at least a few solid reasons for him to proceed in the face of such doubt, but we come to find out the case was more of a disaster than anyone could have imagined.

Michael said...

Gunman kills 32 at Virginia Tech before being killed

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

bill anderson said...

Here was Barry Saunders' reply to me:

"Who could possibly demonize such sweet, innocent gentlemen?"

Yep, the N&O still is engaged in character assassination.

Georgia Girl said...

"easy to say that now" ... because it was just announced the gunman was "asian" ....

8:41, wow ... are you the man or what? Sorry, I just don't feel like responding to sarcasim tonight. I have a "bush ice" plant to add to the garden. It's a suckling creater that spreads it's foilage .... actually quite beautiful once mature ... ours is bright orange.

Georgia Girl said...

... anything else?

Gary Packwood said...

Anonymous 8:57 said...
...I think the worst thing in this whole case, and it's just coming out now, is how bad the behavior of Nifong really was.
::
Well, that may be true but that was not the reaction of 20 physicians I met with this morning for breakfast. They assumed an idiot DA and a few townies with their nose out of joint but ...they all wanted to know about the community group with the banner that said 'Take Back The Night' that was marching on the streets making noise.

I had to tell them that the group was not a community group but rather a Duke University group and 'Take Back The Night' has a Duke University web site.

Everyone focused back on their hot cereal, cold fruit plate and toast.
::
GP

Anonymous said...

Great piece, K.C.
Finnerty and Seligmann...Go to Notre Dame! They have a nice lacrosse program and virtually all of the students, teachers, townies and cops actually like and appreciate the student athletes.

Anonymous said...

Georgia Grrl - been hittin' the booze pretty hard today, eh? Even for you that is some strange writing. Reminder to old burn out - this case is not about your rape. Never has been, never will be. I would ask that you focus on that, but that's like asking a child to keep her finger out of her nose.

And mix in a spell check, eh?

Anonymous said...

Speaking of articles.. LaShawn Baker flat out nails in this article:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/LaShawnBarber/2007/04/16/every_one_his_due

Anonymous said...

Wow... the Virgina Tech shooter's web pages:

http://vt.facebook.com/photos.php?id=6202368&l=d1b29


http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/profile

jamil hussein said...

he is not the shooter. Please stop distributing this crap information.

Haven't people learned anything?

duke09parent said...

10:11,

A link within the second site says he's not the shooter. Not sure what thet guy's point is. Something about letting students carry weapons?

Anonymous said...

when a psychopath falls in love with a beautiful girl, who responds in kind, if even only briefly, the result is often death.

This guys websites were basically an indication what was going to happen.

Scary world we live in.

jamil hussein said...

I hope KC keep the IP addresses of 10:11. I think it is needed in libel suits. I really hope 10:11 is sued. Nifonh hoax episode should have teached something.

Anonymous said...

That guy has posted that he is not the shooter.

jamil hussein said...

better to keep IP addresses of 10:55:00 as well. Just like potbangers and gang88. Due process and concepts like innocence until proven guilty are for losers, right?

bill anderson said...

No, the guy definitely was not the shooter. Anyway, the killer used a couple of 9mm handguns, not a Russian M44 (which is the carbine version of an M91 -- which I own).

Janet said...

I have been watching as many news sources as possible since the boys were declared innocent, and this is the first place I've seen some outrage over the way Nifong and the accuser played with these boys lives. Where are the 88 faculty that took out the infamous ad? Where are the apologies that are so freely offered to an African American women's basketball team, but not to some rich white boys? When are people going to realize that racism will only end if rule of behavior apply to everyone, period? Why isn't the public screaming for change? Please, tell me if you've seen any other sites where there is a sensible, unbiased reaction to the travesty from Duke University.

Gary Packwood said...

A little off topic please.
::
NIMS Training

RE: The situation on the Virginia campus today and how the students could have been trained to deal with this and other Incidents on and off campus.

There is training available everyone in the USA...including students at Duke. You can attend classes or complete the training yourself ...online...and take the competency test ... on line.

http://www.fema.gov/emergency/nims/nims_training.shtm

NIMS = National Incident Management System

I have been through all levels of this training and each course was excellent.

As I watched the authorities work the situation today, I could tell what they were doing because of my training.

Universities know all about this training and it is still debated why they don't take advantage of this for their students.

It is good training.
::

GP

Georgia Girl said...

The fact that the shooter was Asian blew my theory to pieces. I was way off target.

Gary Packwood said...

Janet 11:21 said...
...Please, tell me if you've seen any other sites where there is a sensible, unbiased reaction to the travesty from Duke University.
::
Hi Janet,

A full week has not yet passed and we are still dealing with both the happiness and sadness associated with the 'taste of hell' comments.

The 'taste of hell' comments are from people who are saying that they hope the three guys got a little 'taste of hell' like over poor people experience in the country. I write them back and ask if they think it would be a good thing for people to experience a little taste of cancer!

The Duke University newspaper (Chronicle) is a good publication; the Liestoppers Board and the Friends of Duke University board are also great... but I think you have found the best place for information.

You can search this Blog on the front page and that should be really great review for you.

Good luck
::
GP

Atlantin said...

re:"nifong's hat trick said...
Hope the pot bangers and G88 are on their way up to Columbia U to protest the rape and burning of a 23 yr old Columbia student by a black male. Last statistics I read report that black on white rape has a 70% higher rate than white on black rape. Does anyone know if this is a current stat?Apr 16, 2007 4:32:00 PM

From: Here read down


Between 2001 and 2003, blacks committed, on average, 15,400 black-on-white rapes per year, while whites averaged only 900 white-on-black rapes per year.

“Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.”

But things are even worse than the study shows. It fails to note, with black-on-white male prison rape an institutionalized sport among black inmates, that hundreds of thousands of white men have thus been victimized but never counted by the government. Meanwhile, white-on-black male prison rape is virtually non-existent.

Thoughts on life said...

Great response, KC. One note -- Mr. Moran is married to a Duke graduate (Karen Osler, 1984). His failure to disclose that leaves his connection to "Dukies" out of context. I believe strongly that the use of the phrase "rich white boys" is as racially damaging as "nappy headed hos" -- and in this case, it was used specifically to denigrate the fact that three young men had families who were willing to mortgage their lives to help them prove their innocence.
An unrelated thought to this incident: I am so proud that these three players were never "victimized" by this process. Rightfully scared, but not diminished. David's comments to Lesley Stahl were sad but true -- his obituary will remember him as one of the Duke lacrosse players. Somehow, though, I know his life will overcome that because he's about rising above this.
How sad that the Rutgers women were not given similar motivation and encouragement to avoid "victimization" by the phrase used by some old white guy on the radio (I believe I can assume none of them ever listened to Don Imus). When Rutgers lost to Duke by 40 to start the year, had their coach faced that loss the way she dealt with Imus' comments, they would never have remounted an effort and come back to win in March. As a mother of a young college female, I would have hoped that the efforts of Oprah and others in their corner had been more about empowering people and not sympathizing with the victimization. Thanks KC.

Anonymous said...

The problem the media have with the Duke Lacrosse case is that it fits their model of reality. White men rape black women and kill black men to intimidate the blacks. They cannot accept that the opposite is true.

Since 1972, The DoJ has collected data on crimes by race, gender and religion and published them annually in the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). The survey is flawed in one aspect - categorizing Hispanics - which inflate white crime. The NCVS is, however, a very powerful tool enabling us to approach this sensitive racial subject with objectivity.

If we examine interracial rapes we find about 22,000 white women raped by black men and only about 900 black women raped by white men. When we normalized these data for the US population we find very significant picture in interracial rape. Blacks are arrested at about 122 per 100,000 and just whites 9 per 100,000. The bottom line: Blacks are 13 times as likely to commit an interracial rape than whites. This is not racism - it is fact.

The main stream media ignore this reality. As they spun the Duke Lacrosse case, they refused to report on real crime. A University of Tennessee couple out on a date were carjacked in the early morning of Jan 6, 2007. (Google Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom.)

Ask yourself why is so much focus on at phoney Duke charge and no coverage on a real crime? Carjacking, kidnapping, robbery, torture, rape, mutilation and murder of these two college students actually happened.

Anonymous said...

Georgia Girl says:


The fact that the shooter was Asian blew my theory to pieces. I was way off target.


It is being reported today that he had the words Ismail Ax in red on the inside of one of his arms.

There is a good possibility that he was a recent convert to Islam.

Anonymous said...

Isn't Terry Moran himself a privileged white man? So what he's saying is that if something similar to the Duke case happens to him, that it's ok to not feel sorry for him at all. He apparently believes that sympathy is in such short supply these days that he'll dole it out only to certain people that meet his specific criteria. He and his ilk have lost all sense of proportionality, as one of the lawyers have put it.

Honey West said...

anonymous said: "Drive through neighborhoods and along the local and county roads of North Carolina – flags, banners, stickers and shirts proclaiming allegiance and support for the Wolf Pack and Tar Heels. The Blue Devils? Not likely."

That's like saying, "Drive around State College, PA and you'll see Penn State flags and banners everywhere, but no support for Bucknell." Duke, like Bucknell, is a very small, highly selective school. Good state schools like UNC, because of "in-state tuition," draw lots of students from in-state, and are also supported, as UNC is, by thousands and thousands of local/regional people who never attended the school. Private, Ivy League-type schools like Duke draw many, many "outsiders." Since UNC is more than twice the size of Duke, and since so many of its students and alums are NC natives, there are more UNC people to wave UNC flags all over North Carolina.