Friday’s Herald-Sun contained an interview with the accuser’s father, Travis Mangum. According to reporter BriAnne Dopart,
He still believes wholeheartedly his daughter was brutally raped and assaulted on the night of March 13, 2006—he recalls in vivid detail his daughter’s swollen eyes and cut arms.
On several other occasions, Mangum has made such a claim, always mentioning the swollen eyes. Nor is he the only case-related figure to suggest that the accuser had readily detectable physical injuries. On March 16, 2006, when Sgt. Mark Gottlieb’s team conducted their first interview with the accuser, Officer R.A. Reid photographed the accuser. In his “straight-from-memory” report, Gottlieb wrote that “Reid stated [the accuser] had the onset of new bruises present.”
Below is a photograph of the accuser taken by Reid on March 16, 2006.
As is readily apparent, the accuser had no bruises. Nor did she have any evidence of swollen eyes. It would seem, in short, that both Gottlieb and Mangum did not tell the truth.
That should come as no surprise. Reid's report made no mention of any bruises: Reid wrote that the accuser had "both knees bandaged, cut on heel of one foot and big toe."
And, of course, if there really was an onset of bruising that day (March 16, 2006), why didn’t Gottlieb himself note it in his narrative of his interview—which occurred at literally the same sitting as the picture above? He was obviously dramatic about the accuser’s extraordinary “pain,” and yet he chose to leave out the observation of actual physical injury? This from the guy who observed her (and her face) on March 16 so intently to write, so dramatically:
The victim had a very slow gate [sic] that was obviously painful while she was walking. Her facial expressions conveyed her pain as she ambulated. She moved extremely slow and had difficulty in turning from a direct line. She used the back of the sofa for assistance as she ambulated to sit down in the living room. The victim had to take time to position herself carefully on the sofa so that her exterior portion of either hip was making contact with the cushion. Anytime her bottom touched the sofa cushion while repositioning during our visit, she groaned and had a facial expression consistent with pain. The victim made art effort to/console her kids when they would enter the room to see if she was ok for a brief minute, but was obviously having difficulty in moving to ensure them everything was fine. She stated the kids do not know what had happened to her and didn’t know how she would speak to them about it when it carne up. The victim became emotional when describing her attack. Tears ran down her face freely, and her nose began to run.
In this case, it would seem, a picture is worth more than a thousand words. It’s worth more than anything contained in Gottlieb’s file, and anything Travis Mangum says months after the fact.
O.K. A.G.'s office. Let it go. And please do it in the manner it deserves. Please clear the names of the falsely accused in no uncertain terms.
Talk about some crappy journalism.
"It would seem, in short, that both Gottlieb and Mangum did not tell the truth."
And maybe Travis too.
There are many things that can cause swollen eyes such as dust and pollen or anything that triggers a histamine reaction in that area.
This lady seems like she stays up late, uses mind-altering drugs, alcohol and seems to be prone to falling.
Thanks for publishing that picture - I am at a loss why the rape shield laws are still being used to protect this woman - the rape charges have been dropped.
Common decency prevents me from otherwise commenting upon her appearance.
I am going to give her father the benefit of the doubt and say he is truthful but mentally unwell. Why given the evidence that is out there, would the media run with comments that they know are untrue? Ratings? Trying to appeal to there core audience? Trying to keep a story alive to increase sales of newspapers?
My guess is all of the above.
I have posted this before but it bears repeating. If this or a similar photo of CGM had been published right after the alleged incident, the case would never have been pursued.
CGM is a UGLY wpman by any standard....
I agree with the above. The special prosecutors would serve everyones interests best if they got out in front of this issue and bluntly declare that the accuser deserves our help because she is obviously delusional and Nifong derves jail time because he orchestrated a hoax.
They have no choice but to drop all charges. The tidal flow of events has been against the prosecution from the moment real facts became available and the future histories of this episode will only re-inforce this.
For just once, it would be nice if someone in authority in NC acted as if they understood that.
The thing is, real "healing" in the Durham community must involve its currently disgruntled citizens coming to see that this was a hoax. Some will resist hearing it, but they should not be given up on - because they are never going to get what their community are at present convinced they deserve. It is better, imho, to avoid trying to placate the diehards when there was no crime committed at all. In truth, there is nothing for Durhamites to be angry about in regard to the LAX guys.
Someone should tell it like it really is so the community can begin to grasp that happy, solid, hopeful fact.
Precious' father reveals himself to be an astonishing mental midget, saying among other laughable things that, "Duke tried to cover [the rape] up."
Now imagine you're a prosecutor, and imagine that daughter Precious has similar cognitive skills to her Pop, and then imagine that she's the only witness you have to a sexual assault case that's drawn intense national interest, and furthermore understand that huge chunks of the treasury of your local government will be under threat, and the state's criminal justice system will fall into disrepute, if the case fails.
What a nightmare.
And Mike Nifong brought it all on, just because he lusted after higher office, and sought to secure his pension.
Ms. Mangum is not exactly a looker.
What a bunch of criminals and liars. Civil suits won't be enough in this case. Criminal charges need to be filed.
Oh puhleeeze! The Hurled Scum article quotes CGM's father saying "Duke tried to cover it up...." One would think that a reasonably professional journalist would refrain from quoting somebody with that tenuous a grasp of reality. I blame the state of journalism today as much as the "Louvre of DNA" and her father. Concerning the "leaked" report last week, I still think Cooper and the SPs were floating a trial balloon (no pun intended) to see if the AA community would burn itself down as they are wont to do when things don't go their way. With all the eyes that are focused to observe the next step, I can't believe Cooper et. al. are stupid enough to go forward with this case--but I've been wrong before when I overestimated NC politicians.
Woo-Hoo!! K.C. plays some good hardball!
People, the Hurled-Scum story to me was the last straw, and apparently it was for K.C., too. There is no way that Ashley and company should get away with enabling lies, and I am tickled to see that picture published. Furthermore, if the SPs really were even thinking about taking this to trial, I think that K.C. just tossed a loaded hand grenade into that mix.
Great work! Oh, how come that picture never made it onto Nancy Grace's show? Did Nancy have this picture in her possession? Just wondering....
A lot of things can cause swollen eyes but her eyes do not look swollen. She doesn't even have bags under her eyes.
Durham has "treated" the world to its own version of March Madness 2006! DPD's own Sgt. Gotlieb was clearly at the forefront of the legions of FICTIONEERS who turned a transparent lie into a multi-million dollar cottage industry.
My heartfelt thanks to "KC and the Sunshine Bloggers" for shining the light of truth on this "dead as disco" hoax!
GRACE: Well, you know what? I can understand that. I can understand that. Sir, you said you saw bruises on her face. Where were they?
TRAVIS: Right up under her eyes, and her jaw was swollen.
GRACE: And where was the scratch on her arm?
TRAVIS: It was on her right arm, I believe it were.
GRACE: Where, above or below the elbow?
TRAVIS: It was between the wrist and her elbow.
Durham has "treated" the world to its own version of March Madness - 2006! DPD's own Sgt. Gotlieb was clearly at the forefront of the legions of FICTIONEERS who turned a transparent lie into a multi-million dollar cottage industry.
My heartfelt thanks to "KC and the Sunshine Bloggers" for shining the light of truth on this "dead as disco" hoax!
Dumb question: did CGM's picture appear in the O&A interview w/Mr. M? Didn't think so...
1. Easily swayed by the theatrics of the False Accuser
2. Impossible to budge by the overwhelming evidence of innocence of the LAX 3
Truly a reflection of the quality of Durham's "finest." Durham, you have so little to be proud of in the Nifong Scandal case.
I have long thought:
1. When Mangum left Duke hospital the day after the party, she did not have HER PIMP"S money or maybe all his money. [Whether that was because of lacrosse players taking back their money for nonperformance or Roberts [aka Pittman] taking it or a combination of the two does not matter.]
2. She was of course due a beating for losing her pimps money. She got that beating.
3. After her beating her pimp took her to UNC hospital for treatment and to try to cage some perscription drugs. [At that visit she says fell and hit her head on a sink to explain injuries that she did not have the day before at Duke duing the rape exam.]
4. Later that day she saw her father for the first [he did not visit her at Duke] and he may have really seen injuires, but those she got from her pimp. [Heck I have even wondered if this fooled Nifong and pre-DNA report he actually believed she was raped.]
This makes sense to me. This was not the big news item it became the day after she claimed rape to get out of involuntary commitment. She was still a hooker answering to her pimp and trying to game hospitals or anyone else she could.
"The victim had to take time to position herself carefully on the sofa so that her exterior portion of either hip was making contact with the cushion. Anytime her bottom touched the sofa cushion while repositioning during our visit, she groaned and had a facial expression consistent with pain."
Why would a prostitute, who has sex with numerous men on a daily basis and who claims she can not be sure she was even raped that night, be exhibiting what you portray as signs of pain almost consistent with childbirth? Did you notice the same grimaces of pain while she was refusing to get out of the other strippers car?
Could it be the FA was LYING? Could it be that you're a poor judge of character and truth?
If it's that easy to stump a detective, then we need to question what it actually is that detectives are learning in detective school!
Don't forget to add the latin [sic] where Gottlieb writes:
"The victim had a very slow gate that was obviously painful while she was walking"
The correct term is "gait".
I just noticed "The victim had a very slow gate"...
How was her fence?
Homonyms will get you every time...
How many nails in the coffin does this case need? No DNA and no signs of physical trauma.
I believe that the point at which one can say that the AG's office is culpable here has passed. No rational observer can believe that any crime took place here, let alone that any of the three did it. So what's taking the AGs so long?
My guess is politics. Not so much Cooper's career, but rather the desire not to stir up a lot of hate and discontent.
In any event, the AG's office may simply push off dropping the case until the hearing on the lineups. No way CGM shows, and then the case will be dismissed, and the AGs can claim that they were ready to go. Yuck.
Didn't Travis say in his very first interview that he saw nothing wrong with her in the first 24 hours after the alleged attack? As far as swollen eyes, if she had been crying about the loss of her money to Kim or the almost certain detainment in detox, that would account for the eyes being swollen. You still have to believe that a father is going to take his daughters side no matter what, so I believe his comments can be ruled out by virtue of his relationship to CGM.
JLS tries to make a point about being beaten by her pimp. I doubt this women has a pimp. If she did then he is P.O.'d that Kim ran west very fast. I read that Kim is out in Calif. somewhere. The most plausible rape case I've heard so far is from another commentor who said he thought that it could have been a rape the day before and she is just coming to grips with it. Still a reach for me since the sperm found was not motile.
Great work KC.
How sure are you that this photo of the av was taken on March 16 by Ofc. Reid?
Someone is preparing the public for the dropping of these charges. We know this due to:
1.The article that is the basis for the this tread implying Mangum and her family would both welcome and be helped in healing with the charges dropped. [This part is likely outraging the rape Nazis and the actual rape victim's lobby. They may learn they would be better served by publically disavowing Mangum rather than have it out there in such a high profile case, that going through with a case is not worth it. And as we know this is NOT a case.]
2. Someone planting stories in the press that the charges will be dropped soon. [I guess this could be the lacrosse family leaking to bring pressure on the special prosecutors.]
3. The photo op at the Buchannon to signal the illiterate how complete the investigation has been.
The father is still trying to keep the flame alive that Duke is responsible...still hoping for that big payday he expected this hoax to bring. Sad, delusional people.
Given that Crystal's family says the case is going to be dismissed because they are poor and black, I think the new DSs must list all the evidence she was lying and list all of the lack of evidence of a rape and then arrest her for lying to the police.
The only thing uglier than Crystal's face is her lie about a rape that never happened.
JLS: Your comments on the pimp beating Crystal for the missing $2000 is excellent. My own take is the $2000 went missing in the first place because Kim Roberts stole it. Kim had the perfect opportunity the morning of March 14th as Crystal lay passed out in the passenger seat of her car. At that point, Kim returned to the back of the house and stole Crystal's purse with the $2000 in it (after first removing Crystal's ID and cell phone which would have identified the real owner of the money). Of course, as a convicted thief who'd already stolen $25,000 from her own employer, Kim knew she'd be the first suspect for the theft - which is why she then did two suspicious things. She deliberately yelled racial and sexual slurs at the lacrosse players, provoking them into anger, in order to give her the 'justification' for her next suspicious act - the phony '911' call. The real reason of that call (in which Kim repeatedly gave the address of the lacrosse players) was to set up the players as suspects for the missing $2000. Having thus diverted suspicion from herself, Kim drove Crystal to the Kroger parking lot to dump her. However, because the Kroger parking lot is only a few minutes away, yet Kim took nearly half an hour to reach it, my guess is that Kim used that missing time to dispose of the $2000. Most probably, Kim made an ATM deposit.
Well, that's just my two cents on the two thousand.
It's impossible to explain a place like Durham to anyone who has never been there, but a few generalizations are more true than not.
Most of the people I have met who live there have a certain quality. It's a lack of class. Kind of the WalMart people of the Triangle.
The Trinity Park residents exemplify this perfectly. In their view, they are the "upper crust".....living in an old neighborhood with nice old homes close to Duke. Some professors live there, etc....
But these people are fundamentally cheap imitations of what upper class is. This is why they feel perfectly OK asking for special treatment from the DPD in going after the lacrosse players who lived in their neighborhood. Like small-time vigilantes.
Of course the lacrosse players should not have behaved obnoxiously while partying, but this kind of atmosphere exists in any university town.
Chapel Hill's pricey historic district exists alongside many of UNC-CH's fraternities and sororities.....and many wild parties go on.
Yet the residents do not ask the police to go after the students so their own personal interests will be met at every turn.
The Trinity Park residents, in my view, are major players in the escalation of this hoax.
Ignorant, half-educated cops like Gottlieb felt free to use any tactic he wanted to make this case.
The atmosphere in Durham was ripe. Many petty interests have been served at the expense of these young men.
I laughed so hard when a story was published months ago about a wine bar/gourmet shop that had closed in downtown Durham near Brightleaf Square. It is within walking distance of Trinity Park....(and has reopened since under new ownership).
One female resident---no doubt one of the many overweight hogs in Birkenstocks and wide feed sacks substituting for dresses---was lamenting that she could no longer walk down to the bar from her home to get her much-loved glass of wine at $2.50 a glass.
This is the type of cheapskate, holier-than-thou, WalMart "upper class" resident you will mostly find in Trinity Park.
Yet no one says anything about the rowdy and criminal behavior in the neighborhoods surrounding NCCU.
It's as if no one cares. As if this type of lifestyle is expected there.
To all the lawyers out there: Would a lawsuit get the attention of the sleepy guys in Paducah, Ky. who own Paxton Media, proprietors of the Herald-Sun and bosses of editor Ashley? How many lies will the H-S be allowed to publish?
It's obvious the North Carolina political establishment has decided the best course is to drop the charges and blame everything on Nifong. Their fear is that this will alienate the black vote, which is a reliable Democratic constituency. To avoid this, they will need to make it clear that everyone was hoodwinked by Nifong. They will have to lay all the evidence clearly, to validate their reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if, behind the scenes, they have been working with "community leaders" and the NAACP to prepare the black voters of Durham and North Carolina.
The state will attempt to disclaim any liability for these actions, pointing out that Nifong was beyond their control, according to current North Carolina law. That will open up the liability floodgates for the city of Durham, which will be left out to dry.
The H-S gets the code blue alert and send its life support unit into action: Case imploding, interview father.
I don't have any medical training but I don't see any bruises or swollen eyes. I think she's wearing contacts and you wouldn't put contacts in when your eyes were swollen and tender.
For awhile I tried to give her father the benefit of the doubt. Not that I believed anything he said but he always seemed incredibly confused. There's no way anyone could be this confused though. At any rate, this photo puts his claims to rest.
She's leaning to one side. Must be the missing shoe.
The next chapter in this saga must be the accountability and the justice for Nifong's henchmen.
They are equally quilty, if not more so.
Where are their investigations? Their trials?
This is the first time I have seen this photo. This photo further illustrates how ridiculous this whole fiasco is. For Gottlieb and Crystal's father to say she was beaten makes them just as bad as she is. Also after seeing this photo I don't know why Coman hasn't already cleared the Duke 3 and put Gottieb in cuffs. For the love of god someone put a end to this farce.
Dear Travis Magnum:
Enough with this society never gives up po' folk a chance nonsense. Please get a copy of the Inside lacrosse article on Duke's Tony McDevitt . . . "Come See Where I Grew Up." . . . a primer in self-respect. Maybe it's time you and yours grew up as well!
From the inception of this case, Mr. Mangum has been all over the map with his comments. He has repeatedly given statements that contradicted his own previous statements, and most of what he has said has been refuted by other members of his family, or by other witness accounts, or by objective evidence (such as the photo in this posting).
We know that Crystal Mangum has serious mental health problems, and it appears that she may have inherited her susceptibility to mental illness from her father. That could explain why Crystal and Travis Mangum have so much trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality. However, it doesn't explain why the newspaper reporters seem to suffer from the same affliction.
Great to see KC pushing the truth like this as always. I agree with Bill, it is time for hardball, we have all been nice for too long. The world needs to see her face and know the exact truth, especially when after a year, the Herald-Sun still holds onto Nifong and pushes the story as if something happened.
The nicest thing I can possibly say about her appearance is that I would not give her a second look. I wouldn't pay 4 bucks to watch her dance, let alone 400.
Based on the large amount of DNA found in her back side, I can see why CGM might have had a sore rear.
JLS tries to make a point about being beaten by her pimp. I doubt this women has a pimp. If she did then he is P.O.'d that Kim ran west very fast.
Certainly you make a good argument and one way to look at the data could lead to the no pimp conclusion. But another conclusion one could reach is that part of the reason that Roberts [aka Pittman] found it in her interest to be in CA is that Mangum has a very unhappy pimp who thinks Roberts [aka Pittman] stole some of his money.
In addition we know Mangum had a "boyfriend" and we know his name. Of course he was a sloppy pimp and did not have trustworthy people watching over Mangum, so possibly the truth is that she had a sort of pimp relationship, but not quite the formal big city relationship?
I think KC Johnson has been playing hard ball all along. What could be harder than the truth to these people and the g88 (who get their own classification somewhere below that of being people.)
I agree, KC has always been playing hardball, don't get me wrong. I just meant it is time for proof with pictures and such.
Nancy Grace is not happy about the publication of CGM's image. Check out link.
"He has tried to follow the case, he said, but didn't understand why the rape charges were dropped and why the others might eventually be dropped."
Someone should point him to this site so he can catch up on his daughter.
What does “straight-from-memory” mean?
He took no notes from his meeting and then typed them up months later??
No other witnesses?
The story conveniently matches up to back Nifong's claims?
I agree with your premise. The NC Democrats want rid of this case. The fear it may hurt them with white voters.
I can not agree with your conclusion. They will want to drop them and tell the believers who will always believe she was raped that:
1. Those guilty yankees out foxed us and got away with it.
2. or Nifong blew the case on some technicalities. [and even this will not satisfy those of a vigilante state of mind who will say so what put them in jail anyway.]
3. In the case of both 1 and 2, you need to vote Democrat and turn out in larger percentages and we promise, promise, promise we will never let a bunch of yankee rapists get away with this again.
That is the problem. That is why Nifong ran with this case. That is why the AG is struggling on how to get out of it. There is a segment of reliable NC Democcrat voters who will chose to believe Mangum was raped even if she publically recants. That is what is consistent with their world view that every thing is stacked against them.
The AG does not want to lose these reliable voters for his party. He will not challenge their world view and claim Nifong hoodwinked them. He has to just say, the case can not be made and blame Nifong or someone and imply those yankees got away with it.
To Bill Andersen
I want you to be nice, until it's time not to be nice.---Patrick Swaze from Roadhouse.
It was not "nice" when KC pointed out that Wahneema Lubiano was claiming books were forth coming for nearly ten years on her CV. KC characterization of Karla Holloway's prose as "a parody of academic jargon" can't be construed as "nice". KC used Victoria Peterson's own homophobic ranting to paint her as a lunatic. There is no way the word "nice" can
used to describe that.
KC has been playing hardball from the beginning. While not "nice" I feel he has always been fair, truth full and civil. That being said if you ever meet Jason Trumbour for a drink to discuss this case please send me a transcript. I would love to hear what the two of you would say privately when being "nice" isn't a concern.
Anonymous - Thanks for publishing that picture - I am at a loss why the rape shield laws are still being used to protect this woman - the rape charges have been dropped.
A common misperception of many is that "The Law" censors the press from publishing the name or photo of the rape accuser. It does not. Rape shield law only covers blocking most of the accuser's past sexual history from being used in court..but curiously...not the accused...
The media does not operate on compliance with a law that overrides the 5th, is not even liable for defamation or slander if it thought it was newsworthy enough to plaster the accuser's photo on half of Page 1.
It is just an honoring of a generally acceptable set social norms surrounding media disclosure. The decent thing to do. Not show the picture of the headless body of a teen in a hometown auto accident. Not write that a certain minor did this or that. That in her last minutes of life in the WTC, the published transcript or pod cast of a 44-year old VP cell phone call entered into court evidence showed her last minutes to be consumed with fear..Which I believe the public strongly supports in most cases, where the collective "offense" to the public of such intrusion would be high...
But sometimes the press clings to norms when they shouldn't. Reveal the name and photos of the two Columbine killers? Some in the media thought as minors, they deserved "privacy". Idiotic.
In Crystal Gail Mangum's case, it seems that media shield conventions led them to not - as KC just did - have them look at the CGM pictures and evidence of Platinum Club pole dancing two days after her bender and pack of lies. Her previous stumbling drunk/drugged behavior. But while extending that sphere of privacy to the accuser, did nothing to inhibit them from taking any allegation they could have debunked with a little inquiry - and flinging it at the accused.
It was a sick imbalance where the accuser was deemed deserving of total privacy because it was a rape allegation, whereas the accused were deemed "fair game" with no privacy considerations due. That is a warp, I believe, from what the public really wants.
Oceans of ink have been written about the Anonymous Accuser's, "whoever she is" , injuries. The formerly excellent NYTimes wrote extensively and movingly about her bruises and "suffering" without even bothering to see if it was true....using the lazy excuse that they didn't have to check on the Story or their infamous running of Gobblieb's recovered lies from memory because to do so would invade Mangum's privacy.
As KC demonstrated and the NY Times failed - one photo and 10,000 words of lies the NY Times and others said or enabled just went down the journalistic toilet.
If the Times, Washington Post, CBS, even Fox had bothered - just sending one reporter into Durham would have disclosed that the "could barely walk, in extreme pain, bruised face, in psychological shock" accuser was vigorously pole dancing on March 16th and several other days before Nifong's handlers took over. Perhaps they did know and spiked the truth because it did not fit the early metanarrative.
They could have even spun it that the noble honor student, Mother of Two and Navy Vet, despite her massive pain and trauma, her many bruises from savage white boy assault - gathered herself up and perservered in sacrificial pole dancing....because...because...it was For The Children!!! But then that would risk some Platinum Club patrons coming forward (with similar privacy shield, 'natch) saying she had no bruises, was as limber as silly putty on the pole, shook her booty moneymaker like there was no tomorrow, and perhaps as rumors have it - was offering her usual 50 buck BJs in the parking lot.
And that she told other dancers she had a plan to "get a lot of money from some white boys".
And the erstwhile reporter might have found she was dragged out of the Platinum Club in an unconscious intoxicated stupor on March 11th or 12th and dumped on the gravel so her drugged/intoxicated condition could not bring police heat down on the Club or threaten their liquor license..
Seems all that was well known and was quickly found out by investigators the accused hired. A reporter should have learned some or all of it in a few days digging.
They didn't bother.
And KC shows all of Gottlieb's lies seem to be destroyed by a single picture that the media dared not show as they talked about her eyes being bruised shut from the beating Gottlieb claims she took but apparantly never happened.
Color me disgusted by CGM, Gottlieb, AND the media.
And color me completely lost on the merits of Travis Mangum as a sympathetic character. Man is delusional or lying, trying to play his own race card.
IMO, the apple did not fall far from the tree.
Maybe the 3 little Mangums produced out of wedlock by Crystal will amount to more than the societal parasites and lowlives their elders are, but they don't a very good start on those odds.
Anonymous (Debrah) 2:07 Said...
...Most of the people I have met who live there (Durham)have a certain quality. It's a lack of class. Kind of the WalMart people of the Triangle.
Oh My. Give me strength. The G88 has a point.
Has anyone said who the father is of Crystal's new baby?
Some of the posters on LieStoppers have been commenting on the unusual color of Ms. Mangum's eyes in the March 16 photo. A poster put up the photo of Ms. Mangum from her HS yearbook -- in which she clearly has brown eyes.
I wonder how long Ms. Mangum has been wearing the colored contacts, and why she had put them in for an interview with DPD about her alleged "rape." If, as Travis Mangum asserts, her eyes were swollen, wouldn't putting contacts in have made them even more painful? If Ms. Mangum was not used to wearing contacts, they might have made her eyes tear easily, explaining Gottlieb's report: "Tears ran down her face freely, and her nose began to run." (I had that experience a lot when I first started wearing contacts).
It would seem that the hospital rape exam would be the final word on the presence of physical injuries (though it couldn't determine who inflicted them if they were present). Anyone know if it mentioned facial injuries?
If the medical exam contradicts Gottlieb, could he be in perjury trouble? IOW, did he make his claims under oath to the grand jury?
gait, not gate. Gottlieb is an idiot.
Gottlieb is an absolute disgrace. The more you know about his actions in this case, in his personal life, and before this case, the more clear this becomes.
Many people seem to choose the most charitable possible explanation for things and more facts that come to light, the harder this is to do. Even here, I see many who really try not to see what has been repeatedly shown -- how bad things actually are.
I'm hoping that as soon as there is no charge of any sex crime, the N&O will run a series on the hard facts that are beyond dispute. The photo of CGM is the sort of thing I'm thinking of here. There is plenty more and it really becomes harder to deceive in the face of this sort of information.
4:39 - the source of this tear-fest is Gottlieb which means the entire account is questionable at best.
I agree on the contacts though. No way would you bother putting contacts in if your eyes were swollen and I think it's clear from the photo that her eyes aren't swollen at all.
4:46: None of the hospital reports that have been made public have made any mention of facial or neck injuries. The report from the Duke ER noted that her face and neck (among other areas examined) appeared "normal."
We don't know what Gottlieb told the grand jury, since no record was made of the proceedings. However, Gottlieb certainly would have been under oath during his GJ testimony.
"Furthermore, if the SPs really were even thinking about taking this to trial, I think that K.C. just tossed a loaded hand grenade into that mix."
The SP has had this picture for a long time. Why hasn't this case been dropped?
Gottlieb needs to do some jail time, along side his buddy Nifong.
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Big Sister is watching you.
Can I make a suggestion?
You identified the photo's date as March 16. It might be helpful to say "March 16, 2006." I've been following the story for a while, but even I was confused at first that it might be a recent picture.
And what point would that be, big Gary?
With all the semi-literates and hate-filled urchins making up the Gang of 88, I would think they'd be WalMart people as well.....or at least have an affection for them.
Coming in 4th behind dentists, doctors, and lawyers come academics for being the worst tippers.
Or so anecdotal evidence shows from information relayed by bartenders and waitresses.
Don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.
I have to agree about the dentists, however.
Since most (not all) professors are Liberals, it would not be beyond reason to call them WalMart people.
I used to throw some very lavish parties. The bar was stocked with top shelf fare. One of my good friends who was a law professor would drink an entire bottle of Remy Martin.....yet when we'd go to his home for an event, it was jug wine, chips, and pretzels. LOL!
Mind you, not all professors are like that, but it's been the usual MO in my experience.
Liberals only like to spend big money when it's someone else's.
Also, big Gary, I should add that businessmen and women are counted in the column of being the best tippers.
I suppose that those who know the ins and outs of making money appreciate those who work hard for it (waitresses and bartenders and other menial workers) and reward them generously.
The art of the deal. Kinda like the generous Donald. :>)
Time for the U.S. Justice Department and the Civil Rights division to get involved. The FBI needs to interview the Grand Jury members and find out what lies the Durham police officers told the jurors to get an indictment. How can North Carolina fail to record GJ proceedings? This is legal corruption on a monumental scale.
If she was beaten by her pimp, it was either, A, after this picture was taken, or, B, in a place on her person where bruises would not be detectable...there's not a bruise on that face, for sure...
On Feb 17, 2007 Bob Ashley signed off a Herald-Sun editorial ( Some days you use the wrong word ) by saying "We are reminded that words matter, and haste can be our enemy."
A noble admission. Was Ashley chastising all those who didn't -- couldn't -- wait? Was he acknowledging his own paper's abysmal coverage of the LAX case --or perhaps admonishing the potbangers, Brodhead and the Gang of 88? Possibly he was reminding the MSM of their duty at least to attempt to discover the facts, and to print the truth?
No: Ashley was apologizing for the Herald-Sun's use of the outdated term "co-ed" to describe a female college student.
In retospect, for those asking Gonzales to look into this hoax, they shouldn't bother - turns out he is just as corrupt as Nifong.
Nothing is stopping this freight train of misjustice. But maybe a picture still speaks 1000 words. What a great thing to see Gottlieb on cross trying to explain this picture. He can't escape his lies with a thousand words even if the Herald-Scum refuses to print the true story. Thanks KC for helping expose a justice system rotten to the core. Maybe this one little picture will convince Cooper he has a real problem bringing this to trial.
It's interesting the way Crystal is refusing to speak to her own family.
Her genius father said he hasn't seen her or his grandkids in 5 months.
I wonder what twisted story is behind this?
"More recently, he said, he thinks his daughter has tried to "put it all behind her," although, he added, "Something like that, you just can't forget.""
Put all what behind her ?? A huge LIE that ruined the lives of many. Yeah, I'd be trying to put that behind me as well.
But GUESS WHAT, it ain't going away Crystal, I am hopeful the civil suits will expose you for what I believe you really are. I know you know !!!
"Time for the U.S. Justice Department and the Civil Rights division to get involved."
Senator Obama has just endorsed Congressman Jones' call for a federal investigation into violations of the civil rights of the defendants.
K.C. wow, I can't handle anymore truth about this case. Unbelievable that a city and State can go so bad so easily.
NC must be a sorry place if so many at all levels including the judges have become so lazy with life that they participate in hauxes.
Leadership flash.... maybe it's time for the Gov and others do the right thing.
Bob Ashley is a certified walking idiot.
In Paxton's haste, they hired this backward creep.
If we want to judge Travis Mangum's honesty, let's remember that he said that he had no idea that his daughter was a stripper until all of this happened. Yet we know that 1) her driver has indicated that he would leave her home after 6:00 AM and 2) she would go out with her stripper's outfit on. So where did Travis think she was going dressed that way at all hours, the 24-hour Wal-Mart? It seems that the entire family has trouble telling the truth. Finally, a suggestion for Travis: considering the results of the DNA tests, you might want to disinfect the house, even at this late date.
I'm non-religious, but I'll still say the behavior of CGM and Nifong and their allies has been almost satanic. CGM, Nifong, Selena Sebring, Sam Hummel, Proffitt, Cash Michaels, Wendy Murphy, Victoria Petersen, Waheema, Rosenberg, Ruth Sheehan, Melanie Sills and so so so many others should be made to pay dearly for the barbarity of trying to hurt innocent people.
Anonymous 7:23 has included a newspaper quote from her father: "More recently, he said, he thinks his daughter has tried to "put it all behind her." I believe that Meehan's DNA Security tests confirm that she has been trying to do this for quite some time, and quite successfully I might add.
I would LOVE to come to one of your parties! Dear, could you stock a bottle of Wild Turkey Straight Rye Whiskey for me and Hubby, and invite Big Gary? (We could pick up Big Gary on our way from the Left Coast) It would be so fun! And, we wouldn't have to be nice either! Or would we?
I lived in the triangle for many years myself, and was a frequent visitor at the oncology department at Duke University Medical Center. They were very nice people, mostly. And I visited Satisfactions regularly, you know the sports bar at Bright Leaf Square, where everyone always seemed to get along and have a good time. Sorry dear, I never noticed what anyone was wearing.
I did run into racial discrimination at two places where I worked and the best solution for me was to move on. I hated being treated badly because they just assumed I was white. The funny thing is, I am olive green. ha ha. Forgive this little aside... My mother never learned the names of any of my high school boy friends...she would say 'white boy' this and 'white boy' that and where is that 'white boy' taking you..get it?
I have tried to overcome the prejudice I learned at home and everybody has some kind of awful baggage, even fat ladies in sandals. Hubby is a white boy, his family came over on the Mayflower, dear. My family came over in steerage before WW1. Isn't the USA great!
If we get to come to one of your parties will you please give me some advice on my hair and my clothes? Thanks!
Truth and Justice, the American Way
Sweetmick says that Zsa Zsa Gabor's 34th husband, age 104, has just stated he is the father of CGM's third child.
Some of her supporters would like for you to think that she was some goddess that elicited the most overwhelming sexual power that these guys just couldn't help themselves. Give me a break!
Imagine that you pool all your money together expecting to have an attractive white or hispanic woman dispatched to your party and this is what shows up. She may be Miss USA in her daddy's eyes but no self respecting guy that I know, not to mention a University athlete that could easily, to uses a CCI word, "hook-up", would take his life in his hands due disease, and risk inserting his most precious posession in that!
Forget everything else, how could anyone think that these guys would hold that down to take it. If you were so drunk that you actually ended up with something like that, the next morning you would chew your own arm off to sneak out and not wake her up. These guys are a team, no team member would have let another one do anything with that under any circumstance.
Yeah, I could give you some advice. But would you take it?
I find that leading by example is more effective; however, a "Devil Wears Prada" diss can be fun when dealing with truly obnoxious people.....who also happen to be ugly.....a...la....the Gang of 88.
Rather than advising you on anything, you may simply be allowed to take a tour through my modeling photos. LIS!
Be there or be nowhere!
After all this time, we finally see a head shot of Precious.
In keeping with the March Madness theme, she's looks like Greg Oden with dreadlocks.
Unless you have known people like the Mangum family it is easy to compare them to rational people you have known. However, they are not rational, have not been for generations, and one can guess why that is the case. Fetal alcohol syndrome would be on my short list of causes. But this is based on nothing factual, just speculation. My point is - some of the people here in Durham have never had a chance since before they were born.
There was a comment the other day that has kind of been nagging at me - regarding the police here in town. I know several officers, some are neighbors. I refuse to lump them all in the same category - some are decent hard working individuals who want to make this a safer town. Are there bad cops here? Without a doubt, and we can probably name some without even thinking too hard.
There you have it. And Debrah, see you around town, eh?
Selena Roberts has a piece in the New York Times about the case: "Closing a Case Won't Mean That All is Forgiven". It's behind the TimesSelect wall, but I got to read it for free because I have an .edu account.
Kinda wish I didn't, though.
Is is possible that her face was puffy two days before the photo was taken because of alcohol or drugs? In such a case, a father might believe his daughter's story about a beating...
But just because there has been a multi-generational form of dysfunction, why should innocent people be made their victims just to satisfy some archaic leftover '60s hippie fantasy of a mudslinging Woodstock fest of "love your brother"?
Some of us yuppies came along later and believed that things could change, but many in the black community will not let the curtain fall.
As we have seen, sadly, in this lacrosse case, many are all too anxious to use decades....ney.....centuries-old issues as a way to further an agenda that might yield rewards for them in the 21st century.
It is simply not to be tolerated any longer.
Responsible people must speak out.
This case has illuminated much for this entire country to see and ponder.
The enablers talk about something in the background that the prosecution has. It looks to me like the defense has an arsenal of stuff that they're holding back. How many pictures do they have of CGM? Could they get a court order for all that were taken in the medical centers and elsewhere? If there are quite a few of them, could the defense drip out one a day or one every two days?
Gottlieb's description of his meeting with Crystal where she supposedly is in pain and can't sit comfortably sounds like a page from one of those cheap detective fictions. Crytal knew exactly what she was doing. She has played the game before and knows how it goes. She is a career criminal and deserves a cell right next to Nifong, so they can discuss for years where their plan went wrong. Crystal's parents are only holding on to any chances of getting a payday. They should be brought up on charges for harboring a criminal.
I just returned from two weeks at our annual family get-together at Disney during which I scrupulously avoiding TV and newspapers. I fully expected this monument to modern-day politically correct justice to have been resolved. And what do I find.....that feckless, witless DU leader Mr. Peepers and his 88 bonehead minions are all still in place and the state is still trying to figure out how to gracefully get out of this idiocy. Unbelievable!!!!!! If coach G. is smart, after the culture committee report (which brodhead is looking at seriously), she will take the opportunity to bail out of this asylum. Neither she nor coach K. will have a problem finding other employment.
Debra aka Delta Dawn. (Helen Reddy)
I am a life long Republican but I will say "Way to go Obama", to speak up for the constitution and against corruption during this pre-election frenzy. He has shown he doesn't care about the color of the vote but what is right and wrong. That takes strong charachter, while Hillary Clinton stood silent while a constituant in her own state of NY was being framed for a crime he did not commit.
My mother never learned the names of any of my high school boy friends...she would say 'white boy' this and 'white boy' that and where is that 'white boy' taking you..get
My mother-in-law (外母) learned my name, and although my wife referred to me as 肥仔 my mother-in-law never did. Nor did she refer to me as a 鬼佬 (although plenty of people in San Fran have :-)
Oh yeah, my mother-in-law would have regarded the allegations as a crock as well.
I didn't read Selena Roberts piece, but the introduction says it all:
"The sexual-assault case involving Duke lacrosse players may soon be over, but that won’t end the race and class divides that long existed within the radius of Duke."
This can be translated as follows:
"You may think I was dead wrong about the case - questioning the accuseds' status as human beings and all, but none of that matters because I'm a deep thinker who is concerned with, and understands, the larger issues of race and class."
Some people just can't admit they were wrong. Sheehan and Estrich admitted their mistake, and KC is correct in saying that they should be given credit for that.
But at the NYT they are far too conceited to ever admit a thematic mistake no matter how wrong they are. They not only can't admit it, but they come back with this pretentious stuff that is enough to make you puke.
TO 10:15 PM anonymous---
I would answer you if I knew what the heck you were talking about.
Spell my name right and I might even google what you have written to translate it into 2007 reality.
My aplogies if you are from the '60s hippie generation. Don't mean to offend. It's just that their creepiness has rendered such disasterous fruit for future generations.
4.55pm wrote:Gottlieb is an absolute disgrace.
Gottlieb in statement recently to Herald-Sun:
I am a policeman . I am not very bright...but...I can lift heavy weights at the gym!
8:14 wrote: "If you were so drunk that you actually ended up with something like that, the next morning you would chew your own arm off to sneak out and not wake her up."
Lord! I spit my drink all over my computer reading that! Thanks for the laugh!
Bruises or not, it wouldn't matter. The police should be looking then for the 5 men whose DNA was found on or about the liar. I wonder how she'll change her statement that someone ejacualted in her mouth and she spit it on the floor.... hard to change that one, unless the broom handle had a nozzle....
This case is an excellent example of why there should NOT BE rape shield laws.
If the police departments can release the names of the accused they should damn well release the name of the accuser.
That is simple fairness.
I am just not seeing athat a year laer, Obama is so courageous.
I see quite a few comments about the accuser being ugly. Well, everyone has different opinions about that.
Judging from this one photo, she doesn't look like the kind of woman I personally might find attractive. But keep in mind that the accuser was able to make a living as a stripper; is commonly suspected of having been a prostitute, meaning that men were willing to pay to have sex with her; and had five men's DNA on her or her underwear, implying that she had sex with five different men during the days preceding the lacrosse party. So obviously there are some people who find her attractive, and I don't see how calling her ugly advances any of the discussion around here.
Does anyone know whether CGM fell down any stairs on her butt that night? Her symptoms seem very much like a broken tailbone.
I do agree that had a picture of Crystal been circulated, this would have been a non event.
John Edwards is in actual fact too much of a Breck-Boy. And his wifes situation is very sad but nonetheless real; and distracting.
As for Hilary, I have nothing against her personally but the first US President with two XX chromosomes will be more like Margaret Thatcher than an extreme liberal feminist from New York.
Obama just made a big step towards the front of the class, imho.
Debrah at 9:52 PM said:
just because there has been a multi-generational form of dysfunction, why should innocent people be made their victims...
As we have seen, sadly, in this lacrosse case, many are all too anxious to use decades....ney.....centuries-old issues as a way to further an agenda that might yield rewards for them in the 21st century. It is simply not to be tolerated any longer.
Excellent insight. Your comment made me think of the hate and the grudges my grandmother's generation brought with them from the Old Country. The funny thing is, when they got to the USA (being ignorant peasants) they settled all together again. They continued their little wars, and passed them down to the next generation and some of the next. Naturally, acculturation occurred for some, and more for others. It was a kinder gentler form tribal warfare. Nobody died that I know of but people suffered. I think the reward was simply to make someone suffer.
Carolyn @ 11:07 PM --
You should also know that there is a name for that description, known to men everywhere -- Coyote Ugly.
It is the ultimate in ugly, coming after One Bagger, Double Bagger, and Triple Bagger. Ask any of your male acquaintances to explain.
My guess is women have a similar "secret" rating scale for men, about which most of us (men) are unfamiliar.
Posted on this site in the "lineup motion" I don't see any mention of the FA reporting that she was beat about her face and eyes, so, pretending that her picture showed the "beginning signs of bruises", what are they being attributed to?
Crystal's symptons are consistant with "Faking an injury". Any one can do the same acting.
I know that Nifong and Magnum and the Gang of 88 are scoundrels.
But do you think that if members of the Duke College Democrats had gone to a questionable strip club, drank underage, had "The Shocker" posters in their rooms, and wrote e-mails (however jokingly) about "killing and skinning" strippers, we'd EVER hear the end of it from many of the people who are (otherwise rightly) defending the lacrosse players?
KC Johnson is a democrat. Would you hear from him if a different person or group was wrongfully accused? I would guess that you would, regardless of the political affiliation of the accused. Keep in mind, we know not the politics of the LAX players - being from the northeast, one could guess, but that would put us in the company of the gang of 88 - making assumptions without any facts.
If you're replying to the comment just before: you're right, we don't know the politics of the players (assuming they're Democrats because from the northeast, or assuming they're Republicans because they're upper-class whites, are both absurd.)
But can you still picture the hypothetical regarding the College Democrats? Rush, Hannity and Coulter would spend 2 weeks after each news update railing against their "moral relativism," "getting what they deserved" if a Republican District Attorney was seeking re-election, etc.
Why deal with hypotheticals - we have the reality of this case. That is egregious enough without spewing more hate-filled venom at people with whom you disagree.
I don't understand - "As is readily apparent, the accuser had no bruises." This is just a headshot. Am I missing something? How can you ascertain that she had no bruises by looking at this photo?
It is clear that the players were the victims of horrible misconduct. However, I'd appreciate if you would abstain from the same recklessness that you admonish so prolifically.
To the 10.04:
The accuser's father had claimed she had swollen eyes. Sgt. Gottlieb had claimed he was told she had facial bruises.
Where exactly is the "hate-filled venom at people with whom you disagree?" Those comments are completely within their character, and again, we all agree about the most important premise: throw the book at Nifong and Magnum.
Agree that there are enough problems as it is; I'll drop the issue if you do the same.
wow... debrah, even if you're really that condescending and elitist in your head, you should try to keep at least some of it to yourself. that's a big part of why so many people hate duke.
and for the record, another explanation for why businessmen are such great tippers- perhaps because it's not their own money they're spending. you know, expense accounts and company cards... those of us in academia and medicine don't have those sorts of luxuries. and after spending years and years and thousands upon thousands of dollars on our education, we're understandably a little thrifty. personally, I make sure to tip well when I get good service, but that tends to be the exception and not the rule.
I read this blog quite frequently. I think Professor Johnson has done an excellent job of exploring all of the facts of this case and the political and social issues that surround it. I also agree with the vast majority of commenters that this case has been a real travesty of justice.
But I do wonder whether anyone else feels even the least bit uncomfortable with the revelation of the photo, name, etc. of a sexual complainant. I would agree with many of you that rape shield laws and the general journalistic practice of guarding the anonymity of alleged victims are quite problematic, as they may enable an individual to make false allegations, as is almost certainly true in this case. What should be the guidelines, if any, about publishing the identities of alleged rape or sex assault victims- even in a thoroughly troubled, but unsettled, case such as this one?
I must say that I am troubled by some commenters making pejorative remarks about the attractiveness of the complainant. These comments are nasty, petty, and juvenile. I understand that anything goes with internet postings but high-minded people such as yourselves don't need to stoop so low.
To the 10.01:
I understand many of your concerns. I published the photo as the only way to refute the father's claim--published in the previous day's Herald-Sun--that the accuser had swollen eyes after the "attack."
I could have said that I had seen a photo, that her eyes weren't swollen, that contra Gottlieb's memo, she had no facial bruises, but that wouldn't have done anything much to disprove the father's claims.
The father was lying, and, having lied, he opens himself up to being disproved.
KC Johnson is exactly right.
He has done the fair and logical thing in showing all of us the deliberate and harmful lies the false accuser, her family, and her deranged supporters continue to throw out to media outlets like the Herald Sun.
That paper is the lowest form of journalism in this area.
Rumors now that the photo put up here was taken last month by the AG's office. What say you K.C. ?
The photo was taken on March 16, 2006 by Inv. R.A. Reid.
In this nation where we are all told that we are equal (men and women) but it appears that women do the crimes and men do the time. What a joke! Our legal justice system is not a system of justice! In 2002 this woman committed a string of felonies and only served six days from what I read on the net. If a man committed these same felonies as she did he would have gotten a lot more than six days. The legal justice system needs to punish women just as harshly as they do men. What a joke! What a corrupt joke! The authorities need the same enthusiasm to convict false accusers as they do when a woman accuses a man justly. Also we are supposed to have equal protection of the law and this case is a clear indication that women do the crime and men do the time which is not equal protection. I, as a man, am outraged at this inconsistency!
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