Friday, July 20, 2007

Question Session

Whichard: asks Cooney about the Baker/Chalmers report claim that defense attorneys were responsible for not providing information to DPD.

Cooney: at start of the case, everyone assumed that three residents were prime suspects. Seligmann first finds out that he's a prime suspect when he's told he was being indictment.

Then, before end of April, Osborn filed out detailed notice of alibi. Police knew about this--which is why the police go to Elmostafa.

Cheshire: Evans, without counsel, gave full statement to police. Then Nifong, as lead investigator in case, wouldn't talk to them.

Cooney: he and Nifong met early December--prepared to bring Reade Seligmann into meet with Nifong and police. Nifong: "As long as she can identify him, this prosecution will go forward." Why would defense deal with the officers when it was Nifong making all the decisions?

Bill Cotter: "We were getting the idea that people were cheating"--"so determined to convict these boys that they're not playing by the rules. That was our biggest fear in this case."

Cooney: responsibility clearly vested in Gottlieb and Himan. Couldn't identify any other officers in the case--clear that they were reporting to Nifong.

Whichard: was attempt on Elmostafa initiated by DPD?

Cooney: warrant discovered by Linwood Wilson; Wilson made it clear to Himan that Nifong wanted Elmostafa arrested; Himan goes to someone in chain of command to ask if reasonable; Elmostafa asked if he wanted to stand by this story.

Chief Pat Norris asks about alleged internal affairs inquiry into Sgt. Shelton--Cooney: no indpt. evidence other than Linwood Wilson's testimony. But it is clear that Linwood Wilson did go around and interview people who worked with Shelton that night.

Cheshire: police and Nifong statements created "enormously dangerous" atmosphere.

Cooney: key documents: AG's report; Himan's notes; Sgt. Gottlieb's "report"; suppression motion lineup contains all the key documents; Himan and Gottlieb depositions to State Bar; Linwood Wilson deposition; Nifong deposition.

Cotter: read Roberts' and Mangum's statements side by side.

Chief Pat Norris: wants timeline of police actions from start to end.

Aurelia Sands Belle (whose statement suggests that a rape might have occurred) had no questions of the defense attorneys.

Kenneth Spaulding: as case progressed, "I was very concerned about not hearing from Chief of Police . . . It is not the job of defense attorneys to see that law enforcement does its job." Felt Chalmers was "missing in action." Wants Chalmers as a witness before the commission.

It appears, unfortunately, as if members of the commission believe that Himan and Gottlieb were both trying to get information to Nifong, and were trying to do the right thing. Gottlieb, of course, was not doing so.

In the second round of questions, Sande Bells is asking a question, as to any evidence of Mangum's intoxication.

The role of Sgt. Shelton appears to be quite interesting to law enforcement members of the commission. Cotter praises Shelton--first officer on the scene and he figured out the case. Suspects that all people up in the chain of command believed Shelton.

Judge Barber (committee counsel) questions:

Cooney: no specific request by DPD to interview Seligmann alone.

First two arrays didn't comply in that the "fillers" were all lacrosse players--but in other respects complied with G.O. 4077.

Barber: What should a good police chief do to protect the integrity of his department?

Cooney: importance of following chain of command.

Barber: question of police veracity?

Cooney: "integrity" of report and reporting system re Gottlieb--report seemed to do exactly what NYT article said it did--closed holes in case.

Have concern about claim in affidavit that Duke players were calling each other by numbers.

Chief Pat Norris: her questions, of the entire panel, seem to be the most impressive--she seems to understand exactly what needs to be asked.

Whichard: next step in the process seems to be hearing from police. The week after next they will confer with the Police attorney and set up the next meeting.

City Council has made it clear if the commission needs to exercise subpoenas, can do so.

Mayor Bell personally sat through the entire session--an important statement of political support.


Anonymous said...

So, why didn't the defense attorney's do the job of the DPD? Up is down and down is up.

Just another day in Durham.

Anonymous said...

They DID do the job of the DPD. It's just when all the evidence pointed to innocent, they did not want to see it or hear it.

Anonymous said...


I was away from Wonderland all day yesterday taking care of business and running errands.

A Diva frenzy!

I wanted Friday available for the Gritty Gang of 88 production. Where is it?

There are so many posts to skim. "inman" and "mac"....please advise me if I missed out on anything really delicious.

If you say no, I won't bother going back through all the posts. In reading today's, NJNP provided an excellent link to KC's work.


His scholarly career leaves the Gritty Gang of 88 in the dust.


Anonymous said...

"Himan goes to someone in chain of command to ask if reasonable; "

Looks like they've flipped Himan and are going to use him to take down his superiors at least as far up as Lamb.

Someone on the Liestoppers thread found an entry in Nifong's datebook, 9/29/2006, "DNA Security meeting, Mayor's office, City Hall."

They might be following the chain of command all the way to the top.

Anonymous said...

Slightly off topic. Doncha LOVE John Grisham's review?

Anonymous said...

Everyone who has read some of the critiques of the book can see what a powerhouse it's going to be.

Even George Will and Michael Kinsley agree on this one. A first!


Anonymous said...

KC: What statement did Sands-Belle make?

Please expand, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Here is something that really shows the care with which the Durham Police Department operates.

From the Durham Police Department Crime mapper:

"22 Mar 14 2006 610 N BUCHANAN ST Forcible Rape Forcible Rape"

So...even now as an investigation unfolds....the DPD has a public record that says a rape occured.

Give me a frickin' break!!!

Anonymous said...

Oh and another thought. How were the 101 other reported rapes (2006-2007) handled by the DPD?

Who handled them and ... good many other innocent people have been convicted?

Anonymous said...

He said Sands-Belle had NO questions.

Anonymous said...

One would think that a Police Department that handles that many reported rapes(102)over an 18 month period would have some kind of policies relating to the conduct of an investigation? If so and if Nifong et al violated policy, would their immunity (if any) be breached?

Anonymous said...

Gottlieb got plenty of information to Nifong. Specifically he got him 33 pages of information that bolstered the lie with more lies poured on top.

Anonymous said...

Your last comment suggests that for the commkssion the conclusion is a "fait accompli"...

Anonymous said...

Any evidence of Mangum's intoxication? Well, there is this picture of here here passed out on the back porch that the police never asked to see.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to see that Ken Spaulding is chastising Chalmers' performance....or at least questioning it.

Given that Spaulding's older brother, Asa, is chummy with Chalmers, I wondered how that might effect Spaulding's effectiveness on the Committee.


Anonymous said...

What is Ken Spaulding's position?

Anonymous said...

Fox News is reporting that the Wichard committee will suggest DPD policy changes, but no heads will roll. Sure hope that is not accurate, because it is clear the DPD was a major player in this fiasco.

Anonymous said...


I don't know because I'm not watching the session.

What cable channel is it on?

Ken Spaulding is a Durham attorney who used to practice with Butch Williams. His family is an old one who helped run the big black insurance company, North Carolina Mutual.

People like the Spauldings put on a good show, but they are with the black community every time. Make no mistake about that.

No matter right or wrong.

It's just that the lacrosse case and the idiots in Durham have been illuminated for the entire country to see.

All the "leaders" have to put on a "fair and balanced" face.


Anonymous said...

I'm watching live video WRAL. Too bad about Spaulding....he made a very literate and empassioned statement about Chalmer's absence on duty. Thought it was too good to be true.

Anonymous said...

week after next week? just to set a time for talking to the police.

lets drag our feet.

Anonymous said...

Whicard just said City Council can give them subpoena power if they ask for it, and that these proceedings could conceivalbly lead to legal actions against the city, so Durham's counsel cannot participate in case of conflict of interest later.

Anonymous said...

I cannot believe that DPD has listed on this website that a forcible rape occurred at 610 N Buchannan on 3/13/06. That is one of the most pathetic displays of negligence I can think of.

This info is listed in the Durham police crime mapper and even includes an interactive map to 610 Buchannan St.

At least scum like the Ubuntu hags post lies on their website knowingly. Everytime you think the main problem with the DPD is corruption they go and do something like this to remind us all that their incompetence far outweighs their dishonesty.

Anonymous said...

get over it. They enter it when it was being investigated. then forgotten about.

Anonymous said...

"Mayor Bell personally sat through the entire session--an important statement of political support."

Ha! I see it as being more like those two cops sitting and glaring at Elmostafa during his trial.

Anonymous said...

TO 3:23PM--

That is the point!

Nothing will change the behavior of the people in Durham or their police department. That something so false could still be on the DPD website is proof of their depravity.

It should be sent to a newspaper so that a story can be done about it.


Anonymous said...


Are you going to answer me?


Anonymous said...


Answered your question re objective under your post.


Anonymous said...

Debrah was away yesterday "taking care of business and doing errands"

Does that sound suspicious, or what?

gak said...

Aurelia Sands Belle (whose statement suggests that a rape might have occurred) had no questions of the defense attorneys.

What statement. If you can, can you put it out on the blog


mac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Dear Debrah

Polanski was on fire yesterday. Check all threads.

I also enjoyed Inman's responses to Polanski's posts.

Anonymous said...

I just informed several "journalists" of the fact that DPD lists a "forcible rape" as having happened at 610 North Buchannan Street on 3/13/06 on their crime mapping website.

Let's see if we hear anything more about it. I agree with a number of other posters on this board. The fact that DPD's own website to this day lists a rape as having happened at that house on that night tells you all you need to know about the DPD and how this case will be with the falsely accused for the rest of their lives.

If the DPD (who is supposed to be impartial and defending of all citizens) lists this crime, what do they think people who are not so impartial will write on their websites?

I feel terrible for the majority of fine officers on that force who are lumped in with the Gottlieb's of the world. Hopefully this commitee will cut out the dishonest and incompetent officers who are giving the DPD a bad name like a cancer.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully the committee will become a little more sceptical of Gottlieb once they review his straight from memory "notes" - particularly on suspect descriptions. There is just no way to reconcile Himan's short and chubby contemporaneous descriptions with Gottlieb's tall, lean and baby-faced "recovered memory" descriptions.

I'd like to see the Sarge in the hotseat explaining that one. Like Cotter said, somebody was cheating and I think we all know that one of the biggest cheaters was the Sarge.

mac said...


Six pieces, actually.

"Hochberg and the "Raucus Party."'

1:58 pm: Interview with Tara Levicy
2:26 pm: KC interviews a NPR troll.

"NPR: Our side is the Right Side."

8:34 am: NPR report on parasite M. Nifongii

9:10 am: Don Juan Williams interviews Grant Farred on DNA

10:56 am: All Things Decided: interview with Nina Totenberg and Brian Meehan: parasite Nifongii and
predatory KC Johnsonni, (which feeds off of Nifongii.)

1:24 pm NPR report on Nubian Dancers in their Native Environment.

Hope you get a chance to read 'em!

Anonymous said...

As far as I can see, the committee will blame Nifong and claim that the actions of the DPD were "honest" mistakes. From what I can tell, Gottlieb tried to frame innocent people, and the DPD, by initiating an Internal Affairs investigation of John Shelton and trying to intimidate Elmostafa in court proved that it is corrupt beyond repair.

mac said...

May be right.

"Nothing to see here; move along!"
Officer Barbrady, Southpark Colo.

Anonymous said...

Also, I haven't heard the name David Addison yet. Let's not forget the lies he spewed with no retraction, explanation, or apology. Next to Nifong I think Addison is the biggest disgrace, more so even than Gottlies.

He has never once said he was sorry or admitted error. I want to know (and the people of Durham, NC, and the USA deserve to know) who was responsible for the wording of his lies.

Jungle Jim said...

Does Elmoustafa have a cause of action against the DPD and/or Nifong?

Anonymous said...

Too many threads

Can't communicate with anyone

Anonymous said...

Aurelia Sands Belle, Executive Director
April 11, 2007

Today Attorney General Roy Copper announced the decision of his office not to pursue charges in this case. It is always the prosecutor’s perogative whether or not to move forward with a case. The circumstances from which these charges arose – a party where women were hired to gratify young men – only served to denigrate men and women and further reinforce harmful stereotypes. The fact that underage drinking took place at this party highlights the reality that alcohol is a well-known aggravating factor in sexual assault, especially on college campuses.

Rape is not sex ; it is an act of violence and it dehumanizes all involved. This dehumanization is further emphasized by the differences in race, gender, and class.

DCRC offers support to all survivors of sexual trauma, recognizing the level of courage it takes them to report rape. Our concern is that this situation has made it more difficult for other victims to come forward for the help they need and the justice they deserve. According to a national study called, “Rape in America” (1) victims are reluctant to report rape for fear of being blamed by others, their families finding out about the rape, other people finding out, and their names being made public by the news media. The false reporting rate for rape is not significantly higher than the false reporting rate for any other major crimes.

The publicity around these events has served to re-traumatize some; therefore, it is important to remind the community that DCRC continues to serve past and present survivors of sexual assault through non-judgmental support and advocacy. Our services are free and confidential (in English and Spanish) and are not contingent upon victims filing police reports; however, we will assist them in this process if they so choose. Volunteers and staff are available through our 24-hour crisis line 919-403-6562.

Anonymous said...

"I feel terrible for the majority of fine officers on that force who are lumped in with the Gottlieb's of the world."

Make that unknown number.

It could in fact be that everyone on the force except for Himan, Gottlieb, Addison & Lamb are clean. But it's equally possible that Shelton is the only honest man in Durham. There's just no way to know unless an independent outside agency (like the US DOJ) comes in and does an investigation.

Anonymous said...

Yep, Bell stacked the committee alright. Bell putting Belle on there -- after she had made inflammatory statements that basically said Cooper was lying. This tells it all.

Anonymous said...

Who conducted the DPD Internal Affairs investigation of Officer Shelton? Will he/she testify? What was the result of that investigation? Will the committee probe these questions? The public needs to know if there were a few rogue police officers, or if the DPD is rotten to the core.

Anonymous said...

Someone needs to write a book just on Durham! What a sorry corrupt and racist place it is and has always been.

Anonymous said...

Diane Catotti, the council-nazi-person, appointed Aurelia Sands Belle to the committee. She was the one on the council who cried about the need for "diversity" on the committee, rather than legal or criminal investigation experience.

I find it amusing that Aurelia Sands Belle would believe that a "fake" rape can be dehumanizing. When Mangum cried those crocodile tears as she was fingering Collin Finnerty, was that "dehumanizing"?

When Nifong showed the world exactly how the lax boys "fake" choked the prostitute, was that "dehumanizing"?

When Mangum was dancing on the pole right after the "castrate" pot-bangers' demonstration, was that "dehumanizing"?
When the Gang of 88 published their "Listening Ad" about a fake rape (and then failed to apologize for eating their students over a "fake" rape), was that "dehumanizing"?

Why would anyone appoint a member of the lynch mob to a committee that is looking into the lynching?
Common Sense here 5 cents
Dude with common sense is IN

[Spoiler Alert: Harry Potter lives! Ginny and he elope and have triplets. Dumbledore comes out of the closet and back to life (ever heard of a "Mrs. Dumbledore"? wink, wink). K.C. Johnson becomes headmaster at Hogwarts AND Minister of Magic. Today Show, Interview of J.K. Rowling (7/19/07). MOO! Gregory

Unknown said...

I doubt that innocent rapists were imprisoned here in Durham, the city of Rape, instead, most rapes are not well investigated and few are prosecuted. Rapists, like false accusers, are a protected class in Durham.

Anonymous said...

trying to rin harry potter for fans.


Anonymous said...


Nice. Now go sit in the corner - time out! And don't touch mommy's computer any more...

Anonymous said...

Someone talking about Harry Potter on this blog?

What does that have to do with this blog?

Go talk with a 9 year old.

Anonymous said...

You racist honkies

You think I'm stupid and backward, don't you. I know all about that prevert who posts under a director's name, making fun of me all the time.

I have been ill, but I'm feeling better now. Stop picking on me. It will never be proven that something did not happen at that racist lacrosse zoohouse.

Mr. Polanski, how dare you call me "Panties"? You are a dirty old man, and I wouldn't be caught dead with someone like you. Go ahead and have your fun. I have more important things to do: raising my family; retrieving my good name as a hard-working honors student; and putting this sorry spectacle behind me.

You white people will never know how terrifying it was to be vulnerable in front of so many men that show you no respect because of your race. You have no idea what it's like to be a black woman in racist Durham!

I made no story up, and I stand by the record. History will prove that Crystal Gail Mangum is no liar.

On the contrary. I'm a loving mother; proud black woman; and taxpayer. I am not on welfare.

Please leave me alone, and don't you dare call me Panties--you crachers!

Crystal G. Mangum

Anonymous said...

KC, are you or anyone else going to attend the July 22 Gospel Concert with Linwood Wilson and the Spokesmen Quartet?

mac said...

Please delete 5:45, if it's
you-know-who, our lovable
nutcase P.

Anonymous said...

But where is theman?

Anonymous said...


I didn't see a question.

Anonymous said...

5:53 - ask Gurganus or Crystal.

Gary Packwood said...

inman 2:38 said...

...Here is something that really shows the care with which the Durham Police Department operates.
...From the Durham Police Department Crime mapper:
..."22 Mar 14 2006 610 N BUCHANAN ST Forcible Rape Forcible Rape"
...So...even now as an investigation unfolds....the DPD has a public record that says a rape occured.
...Give me a frickin' break!!!
There are additional problems with the data you are referencing for Calendar Year 2006 with respect to Forcible Rape in Durham.

To begin with there are well defined data clusters within months throughout the year for the reported offenses; March, August and November have no offenses in the last part of the month; June has only one (1) reported offense and offenses are not clustering around weekends as they do in the rest of the USA.

This report needs to be kicked out of the system and audited.

Anonymous said...

Mr. McMac

Are you a potato head? Has it occurred to you that Crystal Mangum is in the process of reclaiming her reputation?

How dare you?

You Irishmen are responsible for slavery. Let the sistak speak for herself. Don't you dare demean what she is preaching.

You white people are so supercilious, it makes me want to return to the Motherland.

Anonymous said...

I'll help you pack.

Anonymous said...

to Mac:

I don't think that was Polanski. I got the distinct impression it was someone in the G88 who hates his guts. Polanski would have been funnier.

The Crystal imitator sounds furious.

Anonymous said...

Here's some more information about Aurelia Sands Belle! She co-authored the "RESPECTING DIVERSITY" chapter of the National Victim Assistance Academy curriculum.

The question that MR. LOGIC asks is: "Why do you need a chapter about 'diversity' in the curriculum?"

Answer: So that diversity pimps can write something in the book.

Seriously, are African-American women against rape, but Asian women are for it? Do you need a whole chapter for it? Why not treat EVERYONE the SAME?
SIDEBAR: I was eating breakfast this morning, and I noticed that my Rice Krispies were "now made with 300% more diversity!" I thought that was weird, but then when I got on the elevator an hour later, I noticed that the sign said: "Maximum Occupancy: four diverse people." It all started to make sense then.


I wish that Aurelia had read the title of the video. It implies that she is a "practitioner" of "violence against women."


I'm sure some care went into selecting big words like "fostering," "practitioners" and "collaborative," it was just that the words were put in a funny order. People in that line of work usually refer to themselves as "Violence Against Women PREVENTION Practitioners."

When the fictional characters from the Harry Potter series and the Lord of the Rings trilogy get together they naturally gravitate to K.C. Johnson as their leader. Memoirs of J.R.R. Tolkien (Cambridge Press, 1960) MOO! Gregory

Anonymous said...

Miss Aurelia is one substantial Negress. Fat enough for monkey sex; stupid enough for a teaching job at Dook.

mac said...

P is in our midst.
"Polanski would have been funnier" sounds like Polanski;
comments about "monkey sex,"

P, I'm wondering: was someone in
your family victimized by blacks?
It seems kinda...personal.

Anonymous said...

6:02 pm wrote:
Are you a potato head? Has it occurred to you that Crystal Mangum is in the process of reclaiming her reputation?


Then she should apologize for what she did. Its wrong to bear false witness against others. She won't be worthy of respect until she steps up to the plate---she allowed herself to be used by a politically motivated prosecuting attorney and was vengeful towards nnocent lacross players who had advantages that she did not. She perpetuated an evil and it doesn't matter to me if she is white, black, pink or purple-----she must claim responsibility for what she did and admit that the students are innocent. Only then will she respect herself and only then will good people have reason to respect her.

I deeply regret that the Durham Police Department and prosucutor and Duke 87 and other potbangers didn't protect Chrystal from her own worst impulses.

Anonymous said...

TO "mac"--

I have to agree with a previous poster. The Mangum "impersonation" wasn't that clever. No matter how nasty and pornographic Polanski is, he's usually more clever with his inventions.

I didn't smell Polanski on that one.

BTW, I liked the Nubian Dancers best! You and Roman were hard at work yesterday. Some great posts......and some very provocative topics.


Anonymous said...

6:38 & others.

Your a priori assumption is that she had a reputation to reclaim.

I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone believe that I've never seen a Harry Potter film?

Not even on HBO or any other cable movie channel. Something about it just bleeds....This is something to watch when you have nothing better to do.

Although, I admire the story of J.K. Rowling's life. She was a single mother living in a flat with no heat. She would spend her days in London coffee shops with her babies....writing and working on the Potter books. The coffee shops were warm and that's where she would stay and write.

Seems she tried over ten times to get published and she was turned down over and over.

Now that woman is a very lucky multi-milti-millionaire.



Anonymous said...




mac said...

Good points.

But just one thing: how can you tell her worst impulses from her best?

Anonymous said...

Have you ever seen so many damned stupid people in yo life? Did a terrorist attack gas Durham or is there a massive virus spreading outward from Duke toward the world? Does Crystal need more DNA or what? You is guilty if you live in North Carolina . . . first the Yankees and then the rest of 'em. Can't we all just get along and move to N'Orleans? It is the onliest mo stupid place left.

mac said...

Still think it's P: he's into the occasional misspelled word
(thrown in for authenticity)
and he's likely:

The Crystal thing is brilliant, if only because
he's demonstrating some sublety, painting a picture of a writing
style that's developing some maturity.
Such as it is.

The reference to the "Motherland" is pure P,
and so is "substantial negress"
and "fat enough for monkey sex."
The biggest giveaway is that "she" knows that P. is a director:
not likely that she would do research, nor keep up with his many,
many posts.

Not your usual P., but a much cleverer and varied form,
using his usual multipolar
personalities and adding to their texture.

Add 7:05 to the list...a dumbed-down version of P.

Anonymous said...

TO "mac"--

You know Roman so well.



Anonymous said...

Oh was just a false alarm......

(With apologies to Joni Mitchell.)



gak said...

The fact that underage drinking took place at this party highlights the reality that alcohol is a well-known aggravating factor in sexual assault, especially on college campuses

HOW?? I don't get it. If something happened in that house, the electronic data for Reade and Collin proves that either one of those two could not have done it. God bless cell phones. CGM was sure that Collin and Reade were the boys that did it. Somebody shoot me if I ever get that blinded by a cause. The absolute absurdity is just beyond belief.

Anonymous said...

KC, thanks for these incredible near-real-time summaries.

If only the Durham police had bothered to write anything down as it occurred...

Anonymous said...

I agree with debrah. KC's hot!

Anonymous said...

@ Mac

Well I read the Nubian Dancers. Must say I prefer that famous poet T.S. Lewis who heard the mermaids singing but dared not to eat a peach.


Anonymous said...


Is there anyone posting who has NOT been victimized by blacks? All urban dwellers have.

Anonymous said...

8:55 -
He couldn't - he knew they wouldn't sing to him.


Anonymous said...

To Debrah @ 7:38:

Thanks for the Aurelia Sands Belle link! I found something interesting in the linked interview of Aurelia. Remember that she was the co-author of the "RESPECTING DIVERSITY" chapter of the National Victim Assistance Academy curriculum?

Of course, MR. LOGIC questioned why anyone would need a diversity chapter in such a handbook. Doesn't everyone dislike rape? Doesn't everyone feel pain?

In her interview, it seems that Aurelia agrees with MR. LOGIC:

"I think it's important to remember that at the core of it, at the heart of it, folks are pretty much the same, whether or not they're at one spectrum of our social economics ladder or where they fall on the color of the rainbow ... pain is pain ...."

MR. LOGIC and Aurelia Sands Belle will co-author the new, amended "RESPECTING DIVERSITY" chapter to read as follows:


Sidebar: I got on e-bay today and bid $50.00 on thirty-three pounds of diversity. Quite a steal, I know.

K.C. Johnson's next projects:

1. Rid cats of aloofness;

2. Conquer malaria;

3. Teach cattle a measure of self-respect;

4. Understand Scientology;

5. Instruct a course in Women's Studies that includes course materials by such noted authors as Hefner and Flynt; and

6. Re-invent himself, again.

MOO! Gregory