No one should be kicked over and over when they are already down. How dare the community keep kicking Mike Nifong. Nifong is a noble man in a profession that is not known for its nobleness. Where is your character? Who is your God? The entire episode reminds me of the crucifixion of Christ. What has Nifong done for you to cry, "crucify him, crucify him?" I wonder how many of the defense lawyers are trying the case for free. If they feel so strongly about the reputation of Duke University and those students, why charge for your services?
The wrong person is being punished as a result of this debacle. The Duke students who disrespected their school to the extent that they would invite a stripper to put on a raunchy, half-naked performance for a party are the ones who deserve punishment. Get a bunch of alcohol-filled, rowdy young men together and one or two of them will probably taunt and invade, with an instrument, a sassy-talking black woman.
Nifong knows the history of how black women have been violated and nothing was done about it. He planned to bring about justice without regard to race, status or school affiliation. The actions against Nifong are so harsh the universe is trembling.
The divine master will not let you get away with your unforgiving hearts. All humans make mistakes. We got to forgive and choose mercy over justice every time.
A commenter noted that an appropriate religious reference for Nifong does exist: "Perhaps he could be the patron saint of corrupt prosecutors."
157 comments:
That's kind of odd, given the history of the caes.
what the hell?
I have to question the authenticity of this. At least it would be a lot easier to swallow if this letter is fake.
I think it's a fake. Pretty grammatically correct until "we got to forgive..." Sounds like a white trying to sound black.
"Sassy-talking black woman?" This reads like a bad novel.
...it's from an 88'er IMHO. No one else is that delusional... wait they don't know how to stop kicking themselves ...never mind this post..
Don't think they're checking IDs before they print those letters, are they? The author had to be a friend of Cy's or Crystal's. No one else could be that dumb!
Why on earth would the H-S even print that? Oh, never mind--I know the answer. It's the only letter they have supporting their point of view.
Judging from the syntax and grammar of the entire letter, this has got to be a fake.
It is noteworthy that "disrespected" is used as a verb and that the last sentence uses another verbal caricature of the uneducated Black --
"We got to forgive and choose mercy over justice every time." --
Too bad it didn't say "We gotS to forgive ..."....then I woulda been sold.
Otherwise the structure of writing is reasonably intelligible.
Yep. Fake.
Either an 88'er or someone in the bat cave is off their meds.
Rich
Oh...and if only we had been axed about it first...
By the way... for what does "H-S" stand?
It's OK to be a stripper but not OK to hire a stripper!
Great logic.
H-S = Herald Sun (Durham "news"paper)
Victoria is smoking the pipe again!
Why would scum print this if the writer was a fake? Most papers do a search of the letter writer BEFORE they publish the letter. Oh, wait this is the H-Scum, I forgot. Nevermind.
Kemp
Do we know whether this Carrie Smith is Durham's stylist-to-the-stars (Intaglio Salon), nee Kolek? Or the IT recruiter and NCSU alumna?
Jesus has been identified with many dubious causes over the past couple thousand years but this takes the cake.
Is Nifong Catholic? Perhaps he could be the patron saint of corrupt prosecutors, if it is ever determined that there is a need for such a thing.
It's not an 88er. The letter sets the lacrosse case in the context of the old:
"Nifong knows the history of how black women have been violated and nothing was done about it. He planned to bring about justice blah, blah, blah..."
As I have pointed out here a few times, there is no such "history", but it doesn't matter now, because the 88ers are off to the new metanarrative for contextualizing this case: That innocent people are commonly persecuted by the racist/sexist/classist/heteronormative American justice system.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/michael_smerconish/20070701_Head_Strong____Duke_rape_accuser_should_be_punished_for_lives_she_damaged.html
great article in the usually lefty phila enwuirer
-----------------------------
There will never be justice in the Duke University lacrosse case until somebody slaps cuffs on the accuser, Crystal Gail Mangum. In April, North Carolina Attorney General Roy Cooper issued a report accompanying dismissal of the charges against each of the three lacrosse players accused - Dave Evans, Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann. Cooper didn't pull any punches. His findings went beyond the conventional "not guilty" to proclaim the men "innocent." Duke reached a private settlement with the men to ward off litigation. Too bad it reportedly protected 88 Duke faculty members who signed an ill-conceived petition last spring that all but explicitly sided with the accuser. Duke also settled with an uncharged lacrosse player; he complained he received a bad grade because of his association with the team.
And of course, Mike Nifong - former district attorney for Durham County, and the man who so publicly prosecuted the case - has now surrendered his job, his license to practice law, and the keys to his office. A disciplinary panel concluded he should be disbarred for his handling of the case, and then Durham's sheriff literally drove to his house and took his keys to the county courthouse. Before it's all over, Nifong could end up in jail.
All good, so far. But someone is missing: Mangum. She needs to return to the Durham County courthouse in handcuffs - as perpetrator, not accuser. The idea of "closure" remains a joke until she gets a taste of what Evans, Finnerty and Seligmann went through, and what Nifong is now suffering.
She needs to be punished for the damage she has done to our judicial system and the potential harm she has caused real rape victims. It's often said rape victims are assaulted twice - once by the perpetrator, and again by the judicial process. Fear of this process, which can become a referendum on the lifestyle of the "victim," leads some to choose not to prosecute. The Duke case, initiated by false charges, became particularly ugly, and one has to worry that it exacerbated an already hostile climate for victims. Might a real victim look at the legitimate lambasting of Mangum and find even more reasons not to enter that arena? I think so.
The report by the North Carolina Attorney General's Office illustrates not only Nifong's naivete, but also Mangum's deceit:
"The reinvestigation led to the conclusion that there was no credible evidence to support the allegation that the crimes occurred. . . . Her proposed testimony about critical events changed whenever it was demonstrated that what she was saying could not be accurate. . . . While witnesses often have inconsistencies in details when recounting events over time, the volume of inconsistent statements and the fact that many of these were substantial and were in regard to significant events rendered the truthfulness of the accusing witness in serious doubt."
In non-legalspeak, she lied! But she walks free.
George Parry, a former federal and state prosecutor now in private practice in Philadelphia, told me that North Carolina law stipulates that Mangum can be charged with false reports to law enforcement agencies, a Class 2 misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in prison.
And he added: "Even though Crystal Gail Mangum set this train wreck in motion, it appears that she has 'Tawana Brawley immunity' from prosecution. Thanks to racial politics, she belongs to a protected class of false declarants whom law enforcement will not dare to touch."
Let's hope it's a fear law enforcement will soon overcome. Until it does, the tracks through Durham remain uncleared.
Reads just like "Justice58" to me.
meant to say "old metanarrative".
RRH
I will guarantee you that this letter is not fake. You have to understand the mentality of many people in Durham. Furthermore, they feel angry because they thought they had these guys in their clutches, and THEN THEY ESCAPED JUSTICE!!
Yes, that sounds ridiculous, but given what we have seen of Durham this past year, we have come to understand that the place really is more strange than fiction.
I agree the mentality exists there and it is anger that "they got away from our grasp." BUT this letter was composed by a literate white person trying to sound black.... and is therefore a fake.
I vote G88 or F-O-C (Friend of Cy)
Does anybody think the Nifongs are going to go away with a shred of dignity???
Let me get this right - we should feel sorry for Mike Nifong?
OK, I felt sorry for him. Now he can be held responsible for his actions.
"The divine master will not let you get away with your unforgiving hearts. All humans make mistakes. We got to forgive and choose mercy over justice every time."
That is a very humane and considerate thought. I support it, except for the small detail in which 'mercy' trumps justice. Too often that concept of 'mercy' turns out to be the goals of the cronies of the populist-of-the-day whose views are promoted by the MSM to the exclusion of alternate viewpoints.
But Ms. Carrie Smith simply had her timing wrong in the publication of her homily. Had she addressed it to the combination of the MSM, Nifong and G88 say in April 2006, it would have been right on the money.
Is Hudson so sure Nifong won't be reelected?
Goodness gracious, sickening.
Everything happening to Nifong is not unusual for any person who commits a crime. Nifong asked for media attention, used it as a tool for reelection, and now must bear more of his own sorry face for it.
Generally, you commit a crime you can expect the following to occur:
1.) Lose your professional license, especially if your profession pivots itself on ethics.
2.) Face the legal consequences. Fines, possible jail time, etc.
3.) Restitution. The victims of your crimes must be repaid for your malfeasance.
I find it disturbing these folks find typical college-life so morally reprehensible yet condone and encourage civil rights violations from our own law enforcement officers who swear to "protect and serve."
Don't they remember what happens when you take people's civil rights away? It wasn't so long ago we had a gross imbalance of equality. Now we get a chance to continue to correct the legal process and this racist witch wants to roll it back 50 years.
This is actually funny, comparing Nifong with Christ on the cross.
So Nifong is Christ ... Barabas must be the Lax 3 (in a unholy trinity sort of way), Pontius Pilate is some combination of Lane Williamson and the N.C. AG ... we blog-hooligans are the howling mob ... Who are the two thieves who flanked Christ at Calvary?
I'm not sure it can be truly considered evidence for the "this letter is a fake" theory, but I can't help noticing that between the second-to-last paragraph, "justice" changes -- see, Nifong was the good guy, because "He planned to bring about justice" (at least in delusional fantasy-land he did) but then "We got to forgive and choose mercy over justice every time." So, mercy is even more important than justice? What kind of "mercy" did Nifong bring about: was it just that he actually refrained from handing the New Black Panthers weapons with which to carry out the death threats they made in the courtroom?
I wish I could say that this inability to decide whether "justice" is primary (and justifies attempts to frame the innocent) or takes second place to "mercy" (letting corrupt prosecutors off the hook because their despicable abuse of authority served the "right" agenda) means the letter has to be a fake. I wish I could. But I wouldn't bet money on it.
Someone local should tell us. Is this Carrie Smith just a local nut or does she simply not understand the facts? Surely someone knows who she is.
the universe is trembling
And here I thought that was just the veggie burrito I had for lunch.
you guys are nothing but a bunch of racists for saying that blacks cannot write literate letters. for your information, there are many educated and middle class black people in durham. this letter was no fake. many people in durham still believe:
that something happened
that this is an example of bought justice
that Cooper is covering up and that he made a political decision not a legal one and that is why he did not charge the stripper
that the bar's treatment of Nifong is also political;his only real crime was that he brought charges against white elites on the word of a black female and for that reason he must be crucified
you guys need to accept that the desire of avoiding a jury trial in this case was a mistake and that is why the duke 3 are being denied true vindication by some people in durham
Doesn't matter. Carrie Smith is a wingnut.
Give us Barabbas!
To the anonymous poster @ 1:43 pm. The men with nets are still after you. Another wingnut. Nifong's crimes were obvious and significant. Justice was delivered with these young men being called "innocent".
What a bunch of moralizing crap.
I bet Ms. Smith would have a different point of view if her life and freedom were taken from her by lies and DA seeking personal gain. I wonder if she would be so forgiving.
Ms. Smith needs to go back to Bible school and then get her facts straight.
"reminds me of the Crucifiction of Christ" ...
Indeed. I'll buy that when I see him hanging with nails in his hands and feet. Until then, he was just a bad character out of the biblical story, acting on his self-interest without regard for those he himself sought to crucify.
At 1:11
"I will guarantee you that this letter is not fake. You have to understand the mentality of many people in Durham. Furthermore, they feel angry because they thought they had these guys in their clutches, and THEN THEY ESCAPED JUSTICE!!
Yes, that sounds ridiculous, but given what we have seen of Durham this past year, we have come to understand that the place really is more strange than fiction."
How could anyone take such a position? The existence of a cognitive process that could lead to those thoughts is scarier than being in the path of a gamma-ray burst. And you are suggesting that there are a lot in Durham who have signed on to that mental petition?
When Congress approves funding for the Southern border wall, do you think they could provide sufficient funding to wall off Duke from Durham....for if Durhamites truly think this way, then Durham is home to a much more dangerous illegal alien, from whom Duke kids deserve to be protected.
Inman
Oh, yeah --- right! A "jury trial in Durham" would have vindicated the LAX3. Are you insane? Carrie would have been on the jury! Black Panther members would have been on the jury! Nifong's supporters and the G88 would have been on the jury! Remember OJ? You think that wouldn't have happened in Durham? The young men would have been in leg irons by now if left up to the REAL RACISTS in Durham!
YOU and people like you.
"... crucifixion ... taunt and invade, with an instrument ... Nifong ... planned to bring about justice ..." Just when thought this over-the-top saga would wind down, there's another screed, or disclosure, of dumfounding example of life imitating parody! Someone mining this blog could work up several screenplays!
You sure Carrie Smith wrote this?
Sounds more like meandering musings of CGM, under the influence of her preferred "substances," of course.
I guess a lot of places live in their "own world." Remember Midnight In the Garden Of Good and Evil, where John Berendt displayed all the bizarrely wonderful eccentrics of Savannah, Georgia? Good thing he didn't visit Durham instead. The book would have been a lot uglier.
Interesting
She wants mercy. If the alleged rape had occurred, would this person be the first to make the claim that we must “choose mercy over justice every time?” Or would she more likely be screaming for the perpetrators heads?
I have a feeling it would be the latter
Justice is not relative.
She would realize how dangerous that principle might be if she sat down and thought about it.
Anon @ 1:43
Because we want to see justice brought against a criminal - incidentally, a white man - does that us racist?
Then I must ask - WHO can we demand prosecution of WITHOUT being called racists?!?!?
For crying out loud, has P.C. gone that far?
THANKS A LOT DUKE U. AND DURHAM WINGNUTS. YOURE SCREWING UP THE WHOLE COUNTRY. BASTION OF INTELLECTUALISM MY ARSE.
To the anonymous poster @ 1:43 pm.
If blacks in Durham believe as you say - (1) they are either delusional (2) demonstrating ignorance or (3) looking for another scapegoat or handout.
I find it interesting, that the majority of educated and articulate blacks in Durham are keeping their opinions to themselves. Please share those published letters with us.
By the way, and if your interested – most educated, literate and successful black people, have no desire to be associated with this case – with the possible exception to those who can make money or promote an agenda from it.
"disrespected their school "
Since when is "dizrespectin'" against the law? Maybe against some urban code...but it ain't da law honey.
If Carrie Smith is typical of the residents of Durham who (1) elected Nyfong because of his unlawful prosecution of the LAX players and (2) are still convinced "that something must have happened" to CGM, there is only one logical conclusion to draw.
All of them deserve to reap what they have sown - especially whatever evil the corrupt city administration and DPD dumps on them in the days, months and years ahead. It is just too sad that the good and reasonable residents of their now infamous city must suffer as well.
"The divine master will not let you get away with your unforgiving hearts. All humans make mistakes. We got to forgive and choose mercy over justice every time"
Was this ever asserted by Carrie Smith on behalf of the Duke Boys?
Please Carrie, in your compassion to we humble folks, show us where and when you wrote this about the Duke Boys.
"... invite a stripper to put on a raunchy, half-naked performance for a party are the ones who deserve punishment.."
If this is God's standard for retribution, then the whole of Durm will be like the ashes of Sodom and Gomorrah... and Victoria Peterson will be a pillar of salt.
I re-read Anon @ 1:43.
WOW. " ... many people in durham still believe:
that something happened
that this is an example of bought justice
that Cooper is covering up and that he made a political decision not a legal one and that is why he did not charge the stripper
that the bar's treatment of Nifong is also political;his only real crime was that he brought charges against white elites on the word of a black female and for that reason he must be crucified ... "
Again. WOW. I now know that, however hard a reasonable person tries to understand his fellow man / woman (of any race, creed, color, etc.), there are going to be people who have thoughts that simply cannot be parsed. If what 1:43 says is stated with belief and conviction, then I'm going to have to relearn the English language, for the words I read begin to have no meaning.
It's like ... well ... I just can't get there from here.
Dear Carrie -
People like Nifong are the reasons people have been exploited so maliciously in the South in the past.
How often has this rogue prosecutor (and those in his camp) prosecuted someone based wholly on the color of his/her skin? This one time, the man was caught and exposed the dark side of Durham justice.
We are helping clean the sewers on Durham by ridding ourselves of him.
Yours Truly,
Anon.
It's sad, indeed, that there are such people as the person who put these troubled thoughts on paper. I assume from the context, the writer is likening Nifong to Christ. It only shows to me how confused some "christians" are about the nature of Jesus Christ. I'm sure Nifong appreciates the thoughts, because it was always evident that he though of himself as something like a god.
"Sister Carrie (1900) is a novel by Theodore Dreiser about a young country girl who moves to the big city where she starts realizing her own American Dream by first becoming a mistress to powerful men and later as a famous actress.
At the time of its first publication, the novel caused a minor scandal and Dreiser had difficulty finding a publisher for it. This was due to the blurred division line between good and bad in the plot. Although Dreiser's moralising narrator does assert that, despite the fame and the money she has amassed, Carrie will not be able to achieve peace of mind in her life, the apparent lack of poetic justice -- the notion that immorality should pay in the end, even if only up to a point -- was a concept the reading public were altogether unused to at the time."
Connection?
The way I'd answer this nut would be:
"Some people's purpose in life is to serve as an example to others. Nifong will have served his purpose when he is fully prosecuted. Do not get in the way of GOD's plan for Nifong ."
TO 1:11PM--
Someone from the H-S editorial staff always calls to verify everything sent to them. You have to provide an address and phone number.
Also, they have a system where a regular writer has a PIN number that you can include with your message to verify who you are.
At least that was how they operated in the past.....before the place tanked.
Unfortunately, that Smith person is real. This is the kind of people Mikey and Cy are used to. They had no doubt they could railroad Reade, Collin, and David with the population in Durham so much resembling the Smith mentality.
Debrah
Anonymous 1:02 said...
Jesus has been identified with many dubious causes over the past couple thousand years but this takes the cake.
::
That's so funny and appropriate.
I'll bet that a very nice elderly AAmerican Black Women offered to write a letter as a victim and one of the G88 or one of their students sat down with this nice person and cobbled together this mess.
The G88 and their students should realize that if you are going to preach propaganda to the masses, the masses are going to want to DO something that is going to take up lots of time.
Perhaps we should feel blessed that she did not deliver a boat load of modern dancers to the H/S Lobby for a dancing message for all of us to see on YouTube.
::
GP
I didn't know that Durham had a Branch Davidian sect! Does Carrie live in a commune outside of town perhaps?
No offense to the good citizens of Durham but your granola group is redefining flakes and nuts.
Um...Carrie Smith ought to read the Book of Esther; there you'll find the match for Mikey NoFang:
Haman.
I invite everyone to read it.
(Spoiler alert: Haman is hanged on the same scaffolding he'd ordered for Mordecai.)
Maybe Miss Carrie should stop abusing Scripture to fit her agenda.
Why shouldn't the punishment for knowingly making a false accusation, or for knowingly facilitating/prosecuting a false accusation, be the same as the punishment could have been for the falsely accused? 30 years wasn't it?
As the caveman in the Geico commerical would say, WHAT????
He planned to bring about justice without regard to race, status or school affiliation.
He also planned to bring about "justice" without regard to evidence also. I don't believe he should be the only one to pay, but he should pay.
Dear Carrie.
Do you really believe that "Nifong is a noble man in a profession that is not known for its nobleness"?
If so. Do you also believe that he never tried to railroaded any black Durham men the way he attempted but failed to do with the white rich kids from Duke?
How many of your friends and neighbors are currently in jail for crimes they didn't commit but were pressured to plea bargain "guilty" by an unscrupulous DA or ADA in the Durham prosecutor's office and did so because they could not afford effective legal representation?
Nifong has been who he is for a long time and so have many of his collegues. Do you really think that the LAX players were his first victims?
If you are going to feel compassion for anyone in Durham, you need to direct it to those who are currently sitting in jail today who are totally innocent of the charges that convicted them or which they pleaded to because they were too poor to fight back when they had to.
It is past time to take the blinders off Miss Carrie and demand justice for those who were victimized by Mr. Nifong in the past and who will continue to be victimised by the "business as usual" Durham proscutors in the future.
It is very possible that what the Gang of 88 and their fellow travelers now seeks to do is to increase the class of people that law enforcement will not dare to touch.
This letter has to be from Karla Holloway.
Carrie Smith ought to read this,
too:
The Apocryphal story of Susanna, facing false accusers (who wanted to jump her bones, and accused her of fornication when she refused their advances.)
Young Daniel shows up, separates the old guys, asks them what kind of tree was Susanna - er - copulating under, and when their stories didn't match, they were stoned to death, a fate that would have befallen Susanna.
Thirty years, for both NoFang and for Crystal Gayle Mangum. Time served in the same cell.
and
this is straight out of the SNL/Nancy Grace skit: "Yeah, you got away this time, what with your big money, and your fancy big-city lawyers, and the fact that you didn't actually do anything..."
but you just wait! We're still gonna get you!!!"
Only in Wonderland can you find people who will write letters to the editor this bizarre and completely disconnected from reality.
to 2:10 who wrote: "If blacks in Durham believe as you say - (1) they are either delusional (2) demonstrating ignorance or (3) looking for another scapegoat or handout."
There's no need for an either/or choice. It's all 3 at the same time, and that's probably the norm in Durham, not the exception.
It's because of people like this that the 2 that haven't graduated yet can't go back to Durham safely.
1:43 is semi-literate, so...he can count himself out as an example of literacy.
Many "people in Durham still believe."
Darn, where is the X-Files when you need 'em?
Agent Muldur, people still believe!
I concur with 3:04. There is no reason to want to go back, in an odd way, I'm happy for them that they can't go back. The voters of Durham showed their support for Mr. Nifong, no surprise there are holdouts of sympathy.
It is why the defense needs to stay the course and go after everyone involved for all they can get.
I also concur with blogger who stated crystal should be held accountable. It's the one thing I did not agree with that Cooper did. Her lack of accountability is going to hurt future cases and false accusers who have no consequence to their behaviour. I say that understanding that mental illness is involved. I worked on a psyche unit for a few years, you can be crazy and know right from wrong. You can also be poor and know right from wrong. What she started and Mr. Nifong exploited was all wrong. I hope he continues to get punished.
Re: 2:50 p.m.
It's all about the individual vs. the group dynamic.
Usually, I make a point not to discuss conversations I have one-on-one with others; however, in light of the way the Herald-Sun editors have conducted themselves, and the way they supported Mike Nifong--performing as a mouthpiece for idiots like Irving Joyner, Earl Holt, Orin Starn, and every libelous person available who worked fiercely to send the innocent lacrosse players to prison--I want to mention a few comments made to me by one of the editors at that paper last Spring.
After witnessing Nifong all over the television and in the papers running off at the mouth, and after it was clear their was no DNA evidence, I called up one of the editorial staff members at the H-S.
I proceeded to give my opinions and I advised him that he should be writing an independent column urging the community to back off and wait for this case to develop....and to also look objectively at the lack of evidence, especially in light of the so-called "gang rape". Why was there not one shred of evidence?
In the past, I had a pleasant relationship with this person. Why not? I just submitted opinions on occasion, and that was that.
Tragically, even way back then as the case had only begun to heat up, this person had a similar attitude as this Carrie Smith person.
He asked me why anyone should be so concerned with these lacrosse players who were here from "up North" and didn't give a damn about the people in Durham.
What this insular statement fails to address is that a huge percentage of the population of the Triangle consists of transplants from all over the country and the world.
I'm in the Chapel Hill area and I have never heard a resident talk this way about students who attend UNC-CH. There isn't this type of resentment.
As we all witnessed, the H-S moved even closer to the Nifong camp as the year went on.
Many residents of Durham have a huge problem of not comprehending that without Duke University, Durham would basically be a glorified ghetto with endless federal and state money being pumped into the place for constant "revitalization".
They should be glad that a prominent university is there and cease harassing the students.
So.....all of this is to say that when you have people running the local paper who would utter such opinions right from the start, there's nowhere justice could have been found in Durham without the intervention which finally took place.
Debrah
C'mon you X-files conspiracy nuts.... data about everyone is available these days!
On-line sources indicate that Carrie T Smith is a 74 year old resident of Durham. There are two addresses listed for her, along with her telephone number.
"Get a bunch of alcohol-filled, rowdy young men together and one or two of them will probably taunt and invade, with an instrument, a sassy-talking black woman."
And get a couple of professional strippers with a history of drug abuse, false accusations, mental instability and previous felonies together at a college party and one of them will probably look for a way to extort the boys for more money.
I though Sister Carrie was a bio about the nurse who started a new treatment for polio victims. Of course, part of the story is the harrasment the Sister received from the Docs on this treatment to rehab polio victims.
re: going after Crystal. Personally, she deserves punishment for what she did. But Cooper is making the good prosecutorial move that Nifong refused to make, and that is to refuse to pursue a case that has no chance of conviction. Remember, the mantra "let the jury decide!" is what Nifong used to justify his pushing this thing to a trial.
Charges against CGM won't hold up because her medical history shows her to be a psychotic drug addict who has a difficult (if not impossible) time telling reality from fantasy. That's enough reasonable doubt to kill any conviction, that's the reason a good prosecutor would not pursue these charges. That's the decision Cooper made.
I hung a jury here in DC a couple of years ago. I was the only white person on the jury. The majority wanted to acquit. It was a substantial drug case and the evidence was solid and extensive (hidden cameras and all).
But the uniformily poorly educated jurors were unable to analyze the current situation without complete reliance on irrelevant "beliefs" or references, such as: "when my cousin was arrested they didn't read him his rights." or "I saw on TV that the banks all make money on drugs why aren't they being arrested?" Totally unrelated to the case at hand. I gave up but refused to change my vote.
Unhappily, decision making by rumor seems to be the standard in many neighborhoods.
When presented with letters like that from "Carrie Smith", or similar flights of unreason quite common in my Durham hometown, my good friend has been known to observe "Well, of course. It's well-known that grits are a neurotoxin."
To think that driving through Durham I took my children to the Duke University campus and actually went inside of Trinity. What on earth was I thinking. I could have been accused of raping Mangam. I wasn't in the house, but that doesn't seem to matter. I don't have a time stamped photo of me at the ATM though, and my DNA isn't to be found anywhere in Durham not even in the bathroom. Still, I have nightmares that one of the Durham police will come late at night to my house with some legal papers and arrest me.
If you'd like to read some other folks who are detached from reality, check out this website. (New Black Panther Party)
http://nbpp.proboards81.com/index.cgiboard=general&action=display&thread=1182104022
It starts:
"Does anyone think that The New Black Panther Party should make a public apology to the Duke lacrosse players who were wrongfully accused of raping a black female in Durham County, NC ? If we are unable to admit when we are wrong, and apologize, no one will take our message seriously.
Any thoughts?
Brenda
Guest
Re: Duke Lacrosse players
« Reply #1 on Jun 18, 2007, 12:55pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. The victim has not said the rape did not occur. The Attorney general dropped it. That does not mean it did not happen but there was not enough evidence. That happens more often than not in rape cases. Why should the Black Panthers make a public apology?"
Carrie Smith is polite and eloquent in relation to some of the drivel on that website. This type of thinking is like sickle cell anemia: largely confined to a single group of people and very difficult to treat.
And this is EXACTLY why this case could never have come to trial--it is VERY easy to see these guys getting convicted despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. "Don't confuse me with the facts!!!" It would have been reverse-OJSimpson justice at work!
3:44
I don't buy it. Mangum is most likely a career parasite. She knows what she is doing. She and her whole family know how to play the game. In Durham, the Social Services office and the public transportation system consists almost entirely of black partakers. The dwontown area has always been run down simply becasue of all the loiters and bums who hang out and cause crime.
Millions are being spent on building up the place, but wait and see. All the improvements and the work done there will soon be damaged and trashed so that everything will have to redone all over again. It's Durham.
Roy Cooper stayed away from prosecuting Mangum because he knew that he'd have a whole community of black people in Durham and beyond after his ass. Don't think logically here. There is no logic to it. Blacks rant about being treated badly, yet they never can admit that there's always special treatment for them--from financial goodies to a revolving door for their repeated crimes.
Cooper did what was right concerning the lacrosse players, but he shouldn't have given Mangum another free ride. That bitch isn't insane, she's just the result of the pendulum swinging too far in the wrong direction. People will begin to get the point.
When you are used to living that way you think nothing of always doing what you want and getting what you want without very significant consequences. That is Durham.
Mangum should be in prison. If she were a white woman, she most surely would be.
Durham is a ghetto with a college in it. It is 45% black and, even with the Univeristy there, the city has only a 40% college degree level according to US Census. Contrast that with Chapel Hill, 11% black and a 76% college degree'd population. Durham will not change because it is a welfare state unto itself. What will change is Duke University; in a decade it will be a black college and no longer anywhere in the top tiers of American colleges. I cannot fathom any sane white parent letting their son go into that swamp. I live in negihboring Raleigh and I would NEVER venture into Durham, much less let my college-aged kids live there. Violence against them is only a matter of time, because the generations of Carrie's has begotten generations of drive-by killers, drug dealers, and Crystals. That is the sad truth.
Google durham and look at the drive-by deaths of innocent children in the last 6 months.
1:43 wrote:
you guys are nothing but a bunch of racists for saying that blacks cannot write literate letters.
you guys need to accept that the desire of avoiding a jury trial in this case was a mistake and that is why the duke 3 are being denied true vindication by some people in durham
>>>>
I am not a racist. I am color-blind in my passion for justice and truth. And 1:43, you are wrong in saying a jury trial would finally convince and provide true vindication for the Duke 3. The hold-outs *choose* to hold on to their malicious interpreations. Truly, if you studied history you might learn from it. Do you remember Dr. Joseph Mengele of Auschwitz infamy? He was convincted in Neurenberg but folks who chose to believe in him helped him escape to South America. The evidence was overwhelming that the man was evil, and yet former neighbors, family, other racists, chose to believe in him. Many reportedly held on to their malice and falsehoods until they died. Its the way of the world.
I suggest that you read and embrace the truth in this quote from Paul Johnson:
The study of history is a powerful antidote to contemporary arrogance. It is humbling to discover how many of our glib assumptions, which seem to us novel and plausible, have been tested before, not once but many times and in innumerable guises; and discovered to be, at great human cost, wholly false."
Truly, black citizens elevate themselves when they come donw on the side of truth irrespective of race.
anonymous said at 1:43 PM
you guys are nothing but a bunch of racists for saying that blacks cannot write literate letters. for your information, there are many educated and middle class black people in durham. this letter was no fake. many people in durham still believe:
that something happened
that this is an example of bought justice
that Cooper is covering up and that he made a political decision not a legal one and that is why he did not charge the stripper
You don't need Mike Nifong to prove a rape occurred. The stripper can bring a CIVIL suit against the lacrosse players, like the victims in the OJ case won against him. She wouldn't even need to prove her case "beyond a reasonable doubt". There could be MILLIONS of dollars to be won. Aren't there black lawyers in Durham -- Why aren't they lining up to take this case?
R.R. Hamilton
Yeah, if all those nuts in Durham really think "something happened", tell them to go get shakedown lawyer Willie Gary.
They don't want this thing to ever be brought to trial. They know that Mangum would look like a fool and the criminal that she is. They only want to use this as a way to show what real racists look like--themselves.
Hmmm. Is Mike Nifong the embodiment of evil? No. Is his suffering like that of Christ? No. He is a flawed human being who allowed himself that most human of failings: hubris. True, he compounded that failing when, given chance after chance to recognize his mistakes and correct them, he instead plunged blindly ahead, but that is the nature of hubris, and as in ancient Greek legends, those who display excessive pride--hubris--will be brought low by the Gods.
We need not labor to make Nifong a symbol. He has now become virtually as much a part of mythology as Creon in Antigone, a still living symbol of the destruction that results when we allow ourselves to think too highly of ourselves. Use his name as an example of how not to conduct one's professional life, but there is nothing else any of us need do to punish him further. He, and his family, will suffer for the remainder of their lives, even if no additional law suits or criminal charges are focused on him.
Nifong is special and momentarily interesting only because he shows us how badly we--all of us--can go wrong, and the potential consequences, thankfully intercepted and stopped in time, of hubris. Let's learn from this, but reserve our real vehemence and energy on those who truly threaten to destroy us and civilization. We've had our collective pound of flesh.
Example of a black moron:
"Something happened."
Example of a white moron:
"Something happened."
Somehow, racism doesn't seem to be in play here, does it?
Mike 4:42: I am not sure what evil is, google "Evil quotations". The first citation, from Albert Einstein, is: "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." You remember Albert, he lived right down the street from Brodhead.
The letter-writer is no friend of Jesus; she is as big an imposter as Judas. A real Pastor of the Gospel, in an African-American church, would say this (and more):
"Crystal Gayle, come clean, come clean! Demons, come out of you, in the name of Jesus Christ!
You walk a treacherous road, young lady, and you tried to get what you haven't earned: you're gonna fall, Miss Mangum, you're gonna fall.
You know why?
Because the devil isn't in the details: the devil is in your heart and in your head: the devil is the author of lies.
Come clean Crystal Gayle, and be made whole, like Mary Magdaline, who had 7 demons! Jesus made her whole!
Come clean, Miss Mangum, because you allowed yourself to be used by a serpent, a liar by day and a liar by night; you let him use you so he could make your people - our people -
look stupid in the eyes of those who hate us, in the eyes of those who would just as soon see us in jail or in a grave.
Come clean, Crystal Gayle, and close your legs and abandon your sins and give your heart to Jesus! Amen."
To R.R.Hamilton@4:29:00PM
Simple yet elegant point! The standard in a civil suit would be "preponderance"(more likely than not). And there are a lot of very deep pockets. So why aren't there lawyers lined up around the block to take Mangum's case? Could it have anything to do with innocence?? Could we hear from some Durham lawyers on this?
Be careful what you wish for. A lot of jurors on that imaginary civil suit would see an image of Reade Seligman at the ATM and think it was a "Wanted" poster like they see all their friends and family on.
Carrie Smith may be a real person, but this letter reads like the winner of a contest by Yale University undergrads who competed to see which one could get the dumbest letter in print on the Herpetic Scum's Letters To The Editors page.
TombZ
"Perhaps he could be the patron saint of corrupt prosecutors."
The icon you wear around your neck is an image of a ham sandwich.
M.Simon:
Correction: Nifong is made in the image of a Haman sandwich.
A Haman Sleeze on Lie.
Double order.
The letter writer avers that the "wrong person is getting punished."
Yes, Panties should be doing the perp walk somewhere, but shes gots to feeds her chilluns.
THE PASSION OF THE 'FONG
Then KC Johnson therefore took Nifong, and scourged him.
And the bloggers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on Nifong’s head, and they put on him a purple robe,
And said, “Hail, King of the Durhamites!” and they smote him with their words.
When the chief bloggers therefore saw him, they cried out, saying, “Crucify him, crucify him!”
Nifong answered, “Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: Therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.”
Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Nifong, and led him away.
And Nifong, bearing his cross, went forth into a place called the place of a skull, in the land of Rah-lee, which is called “The NC Bar Disciplinary Committee”.
Where they crucified him.
After this, Nifong, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, “I thirst – for power!!!”
Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar, which was Nifong’s own words, and they put it to his mouth.
When Nifong therefore had received his own words, he knew them to be the foulest lies, said, “It is finished!”, and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
And he tooketh up his guitar, and he went to dwell in the land of Nod.
2:10
By "most educated, literate and successful black people". you couldn't possibly be referring to the likes of Jesse "Hold em Up" Jackson or Al "They rubbed excrement on that girl" Sharpton. If so, be advised that only 2 words in that phrase applied (and it was none of the first 5).
Did anyone consider that ole Duff himself might have submitted that letter? After all, it's as close to reality as most of his driveling articles.
They could always hire John-Boy Edwards to represent Mangum.....if they want to press for a civil suit.
Although, he'd have to "speak in tongues" to the jury when "channeling" the sources from where all the semen stains came. He'd also run the risk of getting whiplash when "channeling" Mangum's prolific nightly excursions; however, if anyone can do it John-Boy can!
He could speak in his signature whiney and plaintive call for justice for a hardworking Mama.
Word has it that Edwards might be looking for another courtroom shakedown. We thought that a $400 haircut was a bit prissy...or pricey; however, it has now been reported that his current "do's" are costing him $1200 a pop.
This is ridiculous, I mean, not even most women would think of spending $1200 on a haircut.
The world has gone mad!!!
Debrah
Nifong himself wrote the letter. His wife suggested that it be written in a way that would cause readers to focus on whether it was written by a black or a white.
The Preacher continues...
"Miss Smith: you sit in that pew week after week. And did you ever tell Miss Mangum about Jesus?
No, you were too busy talking about "color." Color this and color that.
No color is relevant except the color of the blood we all share,
the color of the Blood our Savior shed on the cross.
Don't tell me about no "color."
Miss Smith, you write letters comparing a devil to our Lord and Savior. Did you mean to do that, or did you wake up stupid one morning?
Grant Farred:
You teach children to be liars and believers in delusion; you make up stuff that Satan himself wouldn't dream of! Get beHIND me!
Mike Nifong:
You used my people, our people, to get elected. Now let me ask you: who elected you Emperor? Let my people go! You hold us in bondage to your lies and deceit, making promises that make us look like the biggest fools this side of Selma. Mr. Nifong, you are a devil! I don't care what you look like on the outside: you are a DEVIL!
All your prissy-pants teachers and administrators and professors:
profess this! Jesus is Lord and
Savior. Profess it, or get out of my face! I adjure you Satan: get beHIND me!"
If some preachers who pretend to speak for the people would only say these things...
Come now Debrah, they couldn't even begin to pay for his haircuts, much less that new little house he's built in Chapel Hill.
Where are Jesse and Al? The defenders of the weak and oppressed. Would appear that they have both admitted that CGM is neither weak nor oppressed (nor grounded in any factual crime).
Ah yes, another day in Wonderland.....
Well, then.....
After this much-discussed strange Smith letter, I believe that we all can agree on one thing:
Mikey has a real future in Durham as a member of Linwood's gospel music group.
Mikey be walkin' with the Lord...strummin' his way into the pearly gates.....no need for Mikey to rededicate himself to the Lord. We now know that in some circles, Mikey IS Christ, himself. He's the new Messiah of Durham.
Debrah
IF Jesse would come out - being a preacher and all - and say what I've said, what he apparently will
not say?
TO 6:04PM--
Someone will need to ask Julianne Malveaux if Jackson's scholarship offer to Mangum is still on.
There are no standards here. She is to get the scholarship no matter what.
LIS!
Debrah
The Preacher continues...
"Miss Malveaux. Miss, is it?
Why is that? Are the words coming out of your mouth too foul for any man to stomach?
Richard Brodhead: why do you cower so? Why? Did your mamma bring you up to be a rabbit? You pretend to love us soooo much.
Do you really? You don't know what the word "love means."
Love died for us on the Cross.
Mr. - or is it "Dr." Hardt:
you think you know what love is?
You're gonna start a revolution
with love? Let me tell you: Jesus started that revolution, and children of the devil like you been trying to steal it from Him ever since! You have yourself for a god, and thank-you-no: I won't worship a fool like you who loves his own image in the mirror...
you love yourself so much in that mirror you make breath stains!
You all are on your own.
I'm goin' with Jesus."
Well, I guess there's a lot of truth to the saying "You just can't fix stupid!"
Carrie letter:
The entire episode reminds me of the crucifixion of Christ.
______________________
I'm not familiar with that version of the crucufifxion.
1) Christ never lied or sinned
2) Christ never complained
3) Christ asked God to forgive them
----------------------
1)Nifong lied in court, sinned
2) Nifong complained that someone else gave him the information
3) Nifong has not asked to be forgiven by those he harmed, nor has he ask the black community to stop the false accusations
Are bloggers aware of this story from CNN news----about Genarlow Wilson?
"A judge denied bond Wednesday for a teenager who's serving a 10-year prison sentence for having consensual oral sex when he was 17 with a 15-year-old girl, an aide to the judge said.
Douglas County, Georgia, Superior Court Judge David Emerson said Genarlow Wilson's conviction makes him ineligible for bail, despite a court ruling this month that reduced his sentence to one year, according to The Associated Press.
Attorneys for Wilson, who has already served two years in prison, are fighting to win bond for the 21-year-old while his unusual case makes its way through the courts.
The case revolves around a New Year's Eve party outside Atlanta in 2003, when Wilson, then 17, engaged in the sex act with a 15-year-old girl."
>>>>>
This appears to be another malicious, vicious prosecution. We care about the innocent Duke students. We must also care about Generlow Wilson.
Mac's Sock Puppet says to 6:28:
Amen.
Duke has all of the ingredients for a black college. Its in the right city. No serious publishing requirements. Regardless of course description, every class can be used as a platform for victimhood, hate and blame. Successful applicants need not demonstrate basic cognitive skills as long as they're willing to take two lower division classes in 'purple prose'. Prerequisite - ability to memorize lists of complex sounding words. Contextual application not required. Professors will ease you into that.
Perhaps its time for alumni to adopt another charity.
"See Mike Nifong? See what you've done to my people?"
A new face checks in with a new take on things!
http://www.socialistworker.org/2007-2/637/637_07_Duke.shtml
Ms Carrie and her friends are like FLAT EARTH BELIEVERS.
Where do you begin? I think it is just easier to walk away.
For whites living is Durham, sell your houses and leave. Not because you don't like blacks, but because you could end up in jail.
6:32
Is that different than a social worker? Seriously, that's a one person website. Envision an obese, friendless guy who can't think of any reason to leave his one bedroom apartment except for groceries, fast food and the video store. His website is all he has.
Well, don't forget that Mangum herself could be sued by the men.
There have been cases where men sued their accusers.
The Preacher finishes his Sermon:
"Linwood Wilson! You say what - what's that I hear with my hand up to my ear? You're a man of God?
No, you're a tool of Satan!
When people talk about getting the plank out of their eye, they must mean the whole lumber yard when they see you coming!
The Lord blessed you with a fine voice, and you use it to intimidate people? Where do you get off setting people up? Who TOLD you to do that?
Better repent now, Linwood, or you're gonna be deadwood! Burning in the lake of fire!"
Amen and good night.
passion of the fong - LOL!
what you would sue Mangum for? A percentage on all of her future tricks?
The overwhelming number of posts in this
thread made excellent points and were fun to read,
esp the outstanding satire which was outstanding!
Great job and thanks!
===============================
To 6:26 about Generlow Wilson.
I think that case is a travesty of justice.
It was an African American Attorney General who
was not happy with the lower court decision to
release Generlow, and asked a higher court to
reinstate his sentence -- he was so close to being
released. I don't understand what's going on there.
What would you sue Mangum for?
So she doesn't attempt to profit from the situation?
To 6:26 about Generlow Wilson
This is a sad case, for the guy, the girl, and their families.
I have not followed it that closely, but I think he was convicted and that law has been changed. Under the new law he would serve less time.
I believe that everyone convicted under the old law would also have to be released on time served, or one year. There are some really horrible molesters convicted under the old law.
I think that maybe the legislature could fashion some kind of legislation so that it only covers Wilson.
I don't understand his lawyer. He actually did the deed--there was a video--and he refused a plea bargin. The other guys--5 I think-- all pleaded and are all free. I can see refusing a plea if I did not do something, but there was a video. He acctually had sex with a minor who was too young to consent according to the law.
Sad.
Re: the Socialist Worker article:
Amazing. I started playing "count the false statements" and lost count within the space of two paragraphs. I mean, I even checked the date, to see if maybe this was written back before the facts about the toxicology report, et cetera, were public knowledge -- but no, this was written after Nifong's disbarment. It was just written, apparently, by someone who thinks checking your frigging facts so you don't look like an idiot is an evil plot by The Man to keep the working class down.
Durham is a lot like New Orleans, the Hati of La. When Harvey Gant, the Black Mayor of Charlotte, ran against Jesse Helms, for US Senator, he expected Durham to deliver the votes. It was clear it was not, so a BLACK federal judge held the polls open in Durham county for THREE hours after every other polling place in the state was closed. Clearly trying to figure out how many votes they needed to steal to win. Harvey actually rode a round the projects trying to get out the vote.
None of this warranted reporting in the MSM.
HELMS STILL WON.
Durham is the "Port of Prince" of NC
Kemp
Carolyn says:
Geesh! Who let Tillie near a typewriter? Now she's got dog snot all over the keys!!
Carrie Smith may just be an older woman who learned everything she knows sitting in the pew last Sunday.
She likely bakes great cookies that everyone would enjoy and would be delighted to be aided crossing a busy intersection.
Maybe the root cause of the problem is coming from not just the Gang of 88, Brodhead, the MSM, the pot bangers, the student award winners, and other abettors, but the Durham churches as well.
Similar pap has been coming from the Duke Clergy.
If you actually believe the garbage you wrote in that letter Ms. Smith, then you need some serious mental health counseling.
Get help now. Please.
I sincerely doubt legislature can pass a law only to cover Wilson.
It doesn't work like that.
We don't have laws in the US passed to cover one person.
they can pass a law that is so narrow it would only cover those in the same situation.
there is history of that being done
GA legislature already changed the law that Wilson was convicted under.
It still does not apply to Wilson because the law was not made retroactive.
Does anyone think that The New Black Panther Party should make a public apology to the Duke lacrosse players who were wrongfully accused of raping a black female in Durham County, NC ? If we are unable to admit when we are wrong, and apologize, no one will take our message seriously.
As seriously as we take Jesse, Al, Nancy Grace, Rosie, and all the other acorns.
Sorry Debrah, John Boy can't do the CGM defense. She didn't go in on an ambulance. That means he can't complete the chase.
Let's be honest, most women don't spend $1250 in a YEAR on haircuts. The Kennedy's have their compound in Hyannis Port, do you think John Boy is trying to establish one at the "Hill". If so, he picked the wrong one. He needs to travel east on 40 to find his "Hill". DDU for Johnny Boy.
At some point, maybe he'll make an honest living and PAY TAXES ON HIS EARNINGS. Funny how the "two Americas" doesn't mention all those shelters. No, not homeless, TAX.
He's pretty shrewd. Look how many gullible voters think he's the best thing since grits and red eye gravy. Guess he grew up eating them in that mill town in Moore County.
A pox is definitely upon the state of North Carolina. We have Mikey, Precious, Pretty Boy, and Broadhed. What more could a state want?
As Gomer would say, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME
NJNP
re your 7:52 post
Is that what you call a pap smear?
The Georgia case is almost as much a travesty as the Duke case. The main difference deals with innocence. This boy couldn't help himself any more than the girl could help herself.
They both would have been better served going to church instead of going to bed.
The Duke LAX players, hopefully, have seen all of a stripper that they need to see for a lifetime (pun intended).
Georgia case is almost as much travesty as the Duke case?
Hmm. Mr. Wilson actually did what he was convicted for, and it was on tape.
Anonymous said at 7:25...
Re: the Socialist Worker article:
Amazing. I started playing "count the false statements" and lost count within the space of two paragraphs. I mean, I even checked the date, to see if maybe this was written back before the facts about the toxicology report, et cetera, were public knowledge -- but no, this was written after Nifong's disbarment. It was just written, apparently, by someone who thinks checking your frigging facts so you don't look like an idiot is an evil plot by The Man to keep the working class down.
The Socialist Worker is doing exactly what I said the 88ers want to do: Re-contextualize this lacrosse case micronarrative into a new metanarrative -- which is that "what happened in Durham is just a microcosm of what happens in the American justice system all the time".
Of course, this is just as much bullshit as the old contextualization of the lacrosse case as "what happened in Durham is just a microcosm of how privileged white males have always treated maidens of color". But it was not unexpected.
The 88ers can still win this war if we permit them to contextualize the lacrosse case.
R.R. Hamilton
TO 8:25PM--
That's pretty funny....as well as providing a panoramic view of some comical players.
You know, now that you made the comparison, I do think that John Edwards is trying so hard to be Bobby Kennedy.
On so many levels that quest is hilarious.
Long ago and far away in James Taylor Land.....when being a kid was easy....I had a wall-size poster of Bobby Kennedy in my room. Some relative brought it to me from the old Intimate Book Store. Bobby Kennedy had what no other Kennedy had: Heart.
Even the child that I was saw that in him as I watched the evening news. He was the first person who ushered the idea of politics into my music-and-drama-laden childhood.
Only an authentic person can provoke such a response in children.
I knew Bobby Kennedy. Bobby Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator Edwards, you are no Bobby Kennedy. Moreover, you are no Kennedy at all ! Eff off !!!
Seriously, John Edwards grew up as an only child....so his bio goes. Even being the son of a millworker, he had no real deprivation. At that time, those milltowns--(think Carrboro, the bedroom community of Chapel Hill which is now called "the Paris of the Piedmont--LOL!)--were close-nit, comfortable places to live for those working in the mills of that era.
Then John Edwards grew up and married a woman 5 years his senior who seems to be an "earth mother" type and a "nester". In short, John-Boy has always been coddled.
Now he plays the part of a "low class deprived, hardworking man". I have no doubt that he is smart and hardworking....however....in my lifetime, he is one of the smarmiest and one of the most prolific lying and affected creeps on the political scene.
His wife Elizabeth--I wish her well, healthwise--uses every family tragedy and affliction as an emotional emollient for their declining relevance on the political stage.
These are two people who have little taste. With all the millions Edwards has accumulated, their 6 million dollar "compound" is more like a pieced together farmhouse.
When I think of the lush Italian-style villa that I could design with all those ill-gotten millions, the tastelessness of their digs makes me sick.
In short, they are going nowhere. Even Bob Schrum and John Kerry can tell you that. Democrats are just glad the media have Ann Coulter to use as a scapegoat to tell just how creepy and strange John and Elizabeth Edwards really are.
Just wait: The very next "tragedy" in their family will be played out before the cameras once again.....hoping to spike his place in the polls.
Ultimately, Barack Obama will pull the rug from under John-Boy with élan.
:>)
Debrah
I see those "Quit kicking noble Nifong" comments on the WRAL website constantly. I say "Kick a man when he is down - he's that much closer to your foot". No, actually I don't, but that particular sub-human needs all the aprobation we can heap upon him. He is lower than a snake's belly. Pity him not - he has earned nothing but scorn.
9:13
I agree. Did we not see Mike Nifong try to slander those boys right up to the end? Right in front of the bar committee?
Nifong is as crazy as the people in Durham who still support him.
8:25 said,
"He's pretty shrewd. Look how many gullible voters think he's the best thing since grits and red eye gravy. Guess he grew up eating them in that mill town in Moore County."
Always thought it was telling that Edwards could not "deliver" the state of North Carolina for his ticket in the 2004 election; closer examination shows he also could not deliver his "home county" of Moore, nor even his "home town" of Robbins!
Nor do I think he would carry the state of North Carolina even as the head of the ticket. And IMO he would not have been elected Senator for a second term.
North Carolina folks do have a little sense.
I agree that Edwards is just a pathetic swarmy bastard. However, I think it's only that he's local that we get to know how deeply offensive his falseness is. I'd bet money that if you could get close to virtually every politician at the national level, you'd want to vomit. A dozen or more combined across both parties, and no one that stands above the crowd when you look under the covers.
8:33 Very nice...
I thought a smear was something Yankess put on bagels?
Even Willie Gary won't fly back in his "Wings of Justice" to file a civil case.... Don't expect a civil case on behalf of Precious. It ain't gonna happen. One lawyer has already lost his license trying to be her champion. The rest of us ain't fools.
His license and his job.
This person is either deranged or possessed of the same irrational mind-set of the Duke Group88 and its administration and President if not its Board of Trustees. Before people are indicted, tried, and convicted they need to, at the very least, have done something wrong. Pehaps this person got caught under one of the pot-banger's pots for too long a period of time. The pot appears to still be ringing.
Debrah,
Can someone please tell me why Bobby Kennedy is so admired (besides having a televised death)?
He was not the great friend to the Negro that history portrays him as. He was attorney general through nepotism, and his lousy counsel contributed to the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Did Bobby have any original ideas?
Label: Irish nepotism
Polanski
Why would the H-S bother to print this letter? That they did says more about the H-S than the writer.
TO Polanski--
My admiration is perhaps one from a then-impressionable child; however, I believe you can read about his many progressive ideas of that time and see that his creativity and his fundamental sense of justice, and most of all, the ruthlessness employed to achieve his objectives were the driving force behind his brother's presidency.
Nepotism? I suppose. But back then, they had a much better breed of recipients.
In short, RFK had charisma and a backbone. His progressive agenda would be conservative today because the Democrat Party has shifted so far to the Left and outside practical boundaries.
I don't give a damn about one's assessment of whether or not he was a real "friend of the Negro". I'm sure by today's standards, he would not have been. I don't think his objective was to see that the black community had a free ticket from the cradle to the grave.
Standards for "equality" today bear no resemblance to the evenhandedness of his day. I'm sure he's rolling over in his grave at the squalor produced by the "Great Society".
Debrah
Debrah,
You make some good points.
Have you read Ronald Steel's book about Bobby? Forgot the title, but it has "night" in it. I suggest it.
Polanski
In Love with Night: The American Romance with Robert Kennedy
That was from 2001. I don't think it received good reviews.
Debrah
The Genarlow Wilson case has a number of ridiculosities to it.
1. At the time, consensual oral sex b/w minors was punishable by a minimum 10 year sentence w/ sex offender. Consensual intercourse carried a maximum 12 MONTH sentence without sex offender registration.
2. The law was changed to reduce the sentence of such a crime, to time that Wilson has already served. It doesn't apply retroactively, but honestly it shouldn't have to; an ethical DA with discretion would realize that the legislature doesn't want 10-year sentences and that the man's already done his time. (The Constitution prohibits ex post facto laws, but doesn't say anything about the application of DEcriminalizing laws after the fact.)
3. The prosecutor involved says that a judge can't reduce the charge or the sentence, yet the prosecutor reserves the right to offer a retroactive plea bargain (which is far beyond the sentencing guidelines of the updated oral-sex law).
3b. On refusing a plea bargain: admitting his own guilt would have made fighting the sex-offender status, an item of Wilson's concern, difficult. (I think plea bargains are unconstitutional blackmail, but that's beside the discussion.)
4. The AG of Georgia elected to make this case into a separation-of-legal-powers argument. I don't know a single reasonable person who thinks this man should still be in prison. Many people affiliated with the case have expressed their displeasure, but no one wants to sack up and do the right thing.
5. This isn't Duke - the kid did the crime - but it's a stupid case with a seemingly out-of-order prosecutor and a calcified legal system. Like Duke, it is causing considerable embarassment to the South.
6. Interestingly, some have argued against Wilson by saying - yep - "he's no angel" and "watch the tape." I haven't seen the tape and don't wish irrelevant events to cloud my judgment - I'll stick to the accepted facts of the sexual incident at hand.
So what if the party was crazy, boorish or debaucherous. The guy was (legitimately) convcited of one crime, for which the sentence is the ridiculous item. His guilt is not the unjust part. Some seem to want to send him away for being a sexually-charged black teen, a broad-stroking of G88 caliber if I ever saw one.
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While Wilson's punishment was unduly harsh, his case is hardly a mild "Romeo and Juliet" scenario. I assume that you have watched the blurred out video of the party - it was on the net for a while - and read the interviews with those close to the case. If not, then you should check those out before suggesting support. I took the trouble to look into it after so many were pushing it as an innocent railroaded by another evil prosecutor. After doing so, I could not see it as anything other than a legislative issue best left in the hands of those with the power to revise the law. The fact that an AA AG is involved should be indicate that this is not about race. Perhaps he viewed the video. To suggest similarity to the lacrosse case is completely wrong.
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You are right that it was not a romeo and juliet scene. it was not even a duke 3 scene.
a bunch of guys --5,6,o7 decided to video tape a 15 year old giving them all oral sex. apparently the jury found it depraved.
a romantic encounter between 2 teens is a lot different than this. talk about disrespect for a very young girl. why was it video taped?
does not deserve 10 years, but he is not an innocent horny teen. there are many blacks were upset with wilson
Nifong better hope that there is no "divine master" or there'll be one more trial he's going down at.
A lot of you are scoffing about the comparison to Nifong and Christ but the historical and biblical parallels are there for those who read and know the Bible.
The Jesus and Nifong analogy: They were both manipulated by the powers that be to have an undue punishment for taking the part of the downtrodden. If you really knew your Bible you would know that the crime Jesus was convicted of, of formenting rebellion in the people and defying the status quo in Judea, is very similar to perceptions of Nifong challenging the status quo and listening to a poor black stripper in the minds of many Biblically minded people around here. Jesus was accused by the ruling body of the Pharisees(= the defense, the Beth Brewer campaigns,etc)and they demanded Pilate act on their accusations( similar to the actions of the defense,blog hooligans, their demands to the US AG,the judge etc.).
The Pharisees had a long on-going battle with Jesus in the scriptures, often on legal matters such as stoning,the problems with money changing in the Temple, etc but they could not remove Jesus as the people supported Jesus(similar to the support Nifong had and the history he had with the defense in this case. The defense targeted his removal early on and the defense efforts to manipulate the election, the recall, etc to remove him. These were hatched by their supporter, Beth Brewer, but all failed due to lack of local support).
Finally, the Pharisees saw a legal loophole. On Palm Sunday, Jesus was welcomed into Jerusalem formally by the people(the exculpatory evidence gambit used againist Nifong when the defense already had the report and in April it was reported that no full DNA match linked the players to the rape kit--so much for totally concealing the evidence). This entrance could be used to accuse Jesus of sedition and that was the charge. At last, Jesus could be removed(similarities to the defense tactics to remove Nifong at all costs and including many extraordinary measures and requests instead of going to trial).
Jesus was sent to Pilate, who did not want to punish Jesus( the Bar announced possible charges but initially said it would try Nifong AFTER the case as is always done). The Pharisees demanded that action be taken right now(ie, the Bar charging Nifong during an ongoing case and causing the recusal which is unprecedented in the history of NC) and in a break with tradition, Jesus was sent to Herod, scourged and then was sent back to Pilate again.
Pilate was a person who was interested in his own political career and wanted no part of the case as the people were against it(Cooper,IMO). Pilate then conducted some half hearted quesitioning(similar to the fake photo ops at 610, IMO, to convince the public they were investigating when in fact, Cooper and the SP did not even interview Bissey and several other witnesses) and then he compromised. He stated that the Pharisees were indeed correct tecnically but he would let others decide Jesus's fate( Cooper declared the players innocent to placate the defense and their supporters and then let the Bar decide on Nifong's fate). Pilate washed his hands of the whole thing(instead of prosecuting Nifong and CGM and charging them with crimes,Cooper let the State Bar deal with Nifong and completely ignored CGM).
The crowd, manipulated by the Pharisee's slander and libel campaign against Jesus, opted for a known miscreant, Barrabbas, to go free and Jesus to be crucified(similar to the overall public condemnation of Nifong in the press lead by the defense's pr efforts, etc and the attempts in the press and blogs like this one to make saints of the players).
Once condemned, Jesus was abandoned even by His closest friends and people who knew Him fled in terror for fear of retribution from the authotities but He still had a band of followers who dared to mourn Him on the Cross in disgrace(Nifong is still quietly supported by a lot of people in the Durham community, and also some members of the press have spoken out against the team after the so called innocent statement).
Later, the people decided that the Pharisees and the Romans were nothing but bloodthirsty, cruel liars and manipulators and so Jesus and His followers' deaths were re-examined. Their deaths were deemed to be martyrs for cause of the downtrodden. Nifong's fate is now being re-examined like this as well.
You are now witnessing the early martyrdom phase of Nifong's journey. That is why there are people writing that Nifong is being kicked while he is down on that WRAL website, that is why even Cash Michaels is saying Beth Brewer is going too far, that is why the NYT is not saying anything, that is why some of the anti-Lax team editorials seem to be increasing instead of dying down and why the Naacp is not backing down about their initial characterization of the case and why the local letter columns have letters like the one you are ridiculing above. The anti-Nifong letters are mostly from out of state and do not reflect what a lot of the locals still believe. Mrs. Carrie Smith is indeed real and even though you may not like it and want to suppress their opinions, there are thousands like her here in Durham county and they know their Bible( and believe it), whereas the majority of you all do not. This analogy about Nifong and Christ has been made in more than one local church. You would also be angered to know that some of the local ministers have preached on the case and not only make this analogy but have also mentioned the early deaths of Osborne and Ed Bradley and even the Duke Ncaa lax losses as examples of divine retribution. As one pastor said, "courts and judges can be manipulated by lies and money as they are man-made and open to corruption, but God cannot be manipulated".
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