Fifteen members of the 2007 Duke men’s lacrosse team were named to the ACC All-Academic team—more than any other team. The recipients were: Bo Carrington (History); Michael Catalino (Biological Anthropology and Anatomy); Edward Douglas (Masters - Liberal Studies); Fred Krom (History); Chris Loftus (History); Tony McDevitt (History); Ryan McFadyen (History); Nick O’Hara (Economics); Sam Payton (Economics); Brad Ross (Sociology); Stephen Schoeffel (English); Michael Ward (History); Michael Young (History); and freshmen Parker McKee and Max Quinzani.
On the women’s side, the Duke squad similarly led in All-Academic totals, with nine recipients: Carolyn Davis (Psychology); Meghan Ferguson, (Public Policy Studies); Christina Germinario (History); Kim Imbesi (Biology); Leigh Jester (Art History); Allie Johnson (History); Michelle Menser (Biology); Rachel Sanford (Sociology); and Kristen Waagbo (Cultural Anthropology).
There was no word from Orin Starn on how the performance of such students furthered his thesis that student-athletes harm the academic environment at Duke.
---------
North Carolina NAACP head William Barber has weighed in with his latest commentary on the case. Continuing his practice of sliming the lacrosse players, he offered the first “lesson” of the case: that the lacrosse players held an “illegal party.” Since Durham doesn’t require “party permits” to make parties legal, presumably Barber was referring to the fact that there was drinking at the party—as there is at thousands upon thousands of college parties every year, none of which appear to have concerned either Barber or the North Carolina NAACP.
Barber’s op-ed led off with a quote from the Bible: “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32.”
This message would best be directed to the North Carolina NAACP website itself, which continues to host Legal Redress Committee chair Al McSurely’s error-filled memorandum of law on the case.
The “truth” that will set NAACP members “free” contains 29 false or misleading assertions, including:
- “After Duke outlawed drinking on campus, some its more affluent white students merely rented or bought a nearby satellite ‘frat’ or ‘party’ or ‘team’ house, to hold keg parties and hire female dancers for stag parties.” The NAACP must have missed the party held at an African-American frat house that led to a rape allegation; Barber has never referred to that party as an “illegal” one; nor has he, to my knowledge, criticized Griffith Award-winner Chauncey Nartey for presiding over a “frat” whose behavior prompted a suspension from the national organization.
- “On information and belief, when trying to hire the dancers, the Captains said it was a party for the Duke Track or Baseball team, which have more African American athletes on them. In fact, the lacrosse team has 47 members, 46 of whom are white. The only Black player, a Freshman, left the party before the dancers arrived.” Actually, the only “Black player” attended the party—and the Duke baseball team (with zero) does not have “more African American athletes” than the lacrosse team.
- “CM . . . had taken the night-job because she has two children in elementary school, and she wanted to save the few day-time hours she had free after her studies, to be with her children.” That assertion became rather difficult to substantiate once the DNA evidence became available, while Officer Himan’s notes thoroughly rebuffed the portrayal of Crystal Mangum as a caring mother, despite the best efforts of Nifong enablers.
- “After about three minutes of dancing . . . there were racial remarks made.” Wrong again. The racial exchange, initiated by Kim Roberts, occurred around 45 minutes after the dance concluded.
- “Around 12:20, some men who saw the vulnerable Ms. M returning to the house called their friends who had taken cabs and gone to get some cash from an ATM. Some returned. Sometime between approximately 12:21 and 12:53, Ms. M has stated she was kidnapped into the bathroom, beaten, robbed, choked, and vaginally and anally raped.” Wrong again. No one “called their friends who had . . . gone to get some cash from an ATM”; as for the time of the “crime,” the NAACP couldn’t even get “Ms. M’s” stories straight.
The head of the same organization that posts the above information believes that he has the right to lecture others that “the truth shall make you free.”
---------
The Duke Basketball Report discussion board has a fascinating thread on William Griffith, the namesake for the University citizenship award recently won by Chauncey Nartey and Shadee Malaklou.
Some of the tributes to Griffith from commenters:
- “Bill Griffith is one of the finest human beings I have ever had the privilege of having as a friend; he is bright, perceptive, thoroughly decent and honorable, exceptionally engaged with Duke and Durham, and simply as fine a person as one could imagine. It upsets me beyond words to see this award—that really is intended to represent all of the best characteristics a Duke undergraduate leader could possess—degenerated or politicized (which, I gather, is what this thread suggests/documents).”
- “I echo your sentiments about Bill Griffith. One of the finest men I have ever known.”
- “I agree 100%. As another alum who’s had the pleasure and privilege of working with Bill Griffith on one of his many projects to engage members of the Duke community in activities designed to promote better relations with the Durham community, and thereby enhance Duke's credibility as a ‘good citizen’ that values fairness, justice, and mutual respect, I am deeply disappointed that two students whose behavior has been the antithesis of those values would be among those deemed worthy of this honor. IMO, this is nothing less than a slap in the face for a lot of people who deserve better.”
Such praise makes all the more indefensible the administration’s decision to reward students who had sent a harassing e-mail (Nartey) and published disparaging, factually inaccurate op-eds (Malaklou).
---------
For those who missed it, John in Carolina has an important post on Sgt. John Shelton and his role in the case. The only police officer who got the story right from the start was harassed by his superiors and possibly subjected to an internal affairs inquiry.
Yet City Manager Patrick Baker and outgoing Police Chief Steven Chalmers saw no problems with how the DPD handled the case.
---------
The Kansas City Star had a well-done editorial blurb responding to figures like Anne Ream or John Feinstein, who continue to attack the lacrosse players even after the exoneration:
“Defending” the Duke lacrosse players in this context hardly means defending them as models of virtue and sterling moral character. It means, simply, arguing that they are probably innocent of charges of rape and sexual assault. And it is deeply ironic that the same feminists who quite rightly insist that a woman’s character flaws should not be used against her in a rape case when she is the victim hold a completely different standard for a man when he is the accused.
--------
More bad news for the Durham Police Department, after a North Carolina appeals court set aside the conviction of Gregory Wright for heroin trafficking. The reasons? Officers didn’t read Wright his Miranda rights before questioning him.
DPD spokesperson Kammie Michael declined specific comment, but cited the department’s general order requiring officers to treat suspects constitutionally and “in a fundamentally fair and just manner without regard to any personal consideration or bias.” Just like the DPD has a general order requiring five filler photos in all lineups.
---------
The first meeting of the Whichard Committee, charged with investigating the Durham Police Department’s mishandling of the lacrosse case, is scheduled for July 20. The lead-off witnesses will be some of the defense attorneys—who are, in a remarkable case of turnabout, effectively positioned as the prosecutors in the case.
Among those not expected to appear: Police Chief Chalmers. No reason was given as to why the perpetually absent chief would not testify.
Tamara Gibbs reports that the committee is considering issuing a subpoena to Mangum. The rationale for such an act, however, is unclear, unless the entire committee has accepted Councilwoman Diane Catotti’s apparent belief that the inquiry should be used to retry the lacrosse case, rather than to determine how the police managed to secure indictments against three demonstrably innocent people for a “crime” that never even occurred.
---------
In a lengthy letter in yesterday’s Wall Street Journal, Charles Falk noted that even as the falsely accused players were pronounced innocent and Mike Nifong disbarred, the case “won't come to a finale unless and until Duke deals with the so-called ‘Group of 88.’”
For Falk, this was a case of “88 very politically correct, tenured intellectuals sitting in their comfortable academic chairs, indicting, trying and convicting the three young student athletes before the facts were completely known and before truth could be discerned.” He wondered whether “we logically expect that our youth would learn good examples of objectivity, rationality, civility and fair-mindedness in a place like Duke that cossets the Group of 88.”
Falk’s conclusion? “The presence or absence of character at Duke University will be determined by how the despicable actions of Group of 88 are addressed by the Duke community.”
---------
The latest in the litany of items from the true believers came from Mike Stark, who produced a recent column claiming that Mike “Nifong crossed the line when he used prosecutorial practices routinely used against ordinary working people to target the powerful and privileged.” The most Stark can say is that Nifong is “no hero” and that the ex-DA “botched” the investigation, although he ends with piece by approvingly quoting Nifong’s “something happened” statement to the Disciplinary Hearing Committee.
Liestoppers, meanwhile, revisits an earlier dispute by posting June 2006 commentary from Alan Hirsch of the Truth about False Confessions website and Paul Logli of the National District Attorneys Association.
Logli came across as from the Norm Early school of justice—he accused Hirsch of trying to “denigrate” Nifong and allowed the elements of Nifong’s misconduct then known to all (his improper public statements, refusal to consider exculpatory evidence, and reliance upon a procedurally improper lineup) to pass without comment. Yet Hirsch was also off-base, sharply criticizing Nifong but then “contending that such conduct is not uncommon.”
In this case, Nifong effectively functioned as Police Department spokesperson for a critical 10-day period (when he made false and misleading statements); supervisor of the police investigation (in which he ordered the police to violate their own procedures and seek indictments without probable cause); and prosecutor (when he lied to the court and withheld exculpatory evidence). That one prosecutor would act in all three capacities and then commit massive misconduct in all three is not common.
Hat tips: K.M., DPK, R.K.
162 comments:
I like the fact that so many of the LAX team are majoring in history. I happen to think that the best way to gain real insight into the nature of the species to which we belong is to study carefully what us humans have actually done, as individuals and as groups.
Studying what people say that they would have done or should have done is almost a complete waste of time, imho.
All Nifong was interested in was the votes from the black community. This case was not about rape, but an election. Nifong is the one to keep this case going - of course, today, his 70 TV interviews are a source of amusement, but not in March or April. The police were obligated to investigate Crystal's claim and the DNA, the easiest way to find the innocent or quilty. Nifong is the bad guy and has been punished.
The last paragraph of this post sums up why the civil lawsuits against Nifong and Durham police are important. And Nifong has barely been punished thus far.
hman 12:15 said...
...I like the fact that so many of the (Men's) LAX team are majoring in history. I happen to think that the best way to gain real insight into the nature of the species to which we belong is to study carefully what us humans have actually done, as individuals and as groups.
::
Absolutely. I agree.
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32
::
GP
I have just a bit of information about the 1968 Supreme Court Miranda decision, which, due to TV and the movies, is widely misunderstood. If the police do not read a suspect his rights, so to speak, that's not an automatic get out of jail free card. The police only have to read Miranda to a suspect, and obtain an uncoerced waiver from the suspect, if two conditions exist which are embodied in the term "custodial interrogation."
In other words, if a bad guy is in custody, even if the police have not actually told them "you're under arrest" (would a reasonable person in the same circumstances believe they were not free to go?), and the police are asking them questions whose aim is to get the bad buy to incriminate themselves, then Miranda applies. If the police do not Mirandize when it is required, that means only that they will not be able to use the bad guy's subsequent statements against him at trial. In most cases, anything else they discover as a direct result of the bad guy's statements can't be used against him either (the "fruits of the poisonous tree" doctrine). If, however, they would have inevitably discovered the same evidence through other means, or if there is other, independent evidence, the bad guy can still be convicted.
I don't know the particulars in this case, but if the case was dismissed based only on a police failure to Mirandize when they should have, that would mean one of two things" A judge with a tendency to favor criminal defendants, or the police had only the bad guy's confession and little or nothing else in the way of evidence, and without the confession, had no case.
As much as some people want, it is not going to be possible to grind Nifong to dust. Disbarment and loss of job is enough for me.
I have also noticed the overreaching of those who want to assert that "this" sort of proscecutorial misconduct happens all the time. Each time I see it, I disregard whatever else is said.
This was a criminal conspiracy between the DPD and the DA's office, at the very least. A RICO racketering investigation is in order and a Federal Investigation as well.
It would be an absolute travesty if this thing died with Nifong keeping his pension and reapplying for his law license in 5 years. No way things should end like that, even though the injustice done was only to a trio of rich white boys from up North (my God, what is it with the South??).
Barber sure did "weigh in," KC, you ol' punster you.
The NC-NAACP ain't doing much to advance colored people. (Wait, is that gauche? Forgive me: "people of color." That's acceptable, I believe.)
The G88 will survive this, albeit with tattered reps...but I'd really, really, REALLY like to see that snake Kim Curtis fired.
See that helicopter? Its going to pick up one illiterate peasant at random from a rice paddy in Laos and drop him naked in a major U.S. city chosen at random. In 30 years, that man will have found economic success and all of his children will be tax-paying, college graduates.
The local NAACP will want to know what these people are doing to help the most recent generation of inner-city victims.
Carolyn says:
Wow, 15 members of the men's lacrosse team? That works out to 1/3 of the entire group. Don't know about you guys but I'm incredibly impressed with that high of a percentage.
I'm even more impressed these kids achieved that while going through a living hell of watching three friends accused of a rape that never happened, while their innocent coach was dismissed because of a morally bankrupt university president, his staff and 88 hate-filled professors. Talk about going through the fire and coming out stronger!
Charles Falk is right in his understanding of the Duke Group88. They came out of the closet with their bigotry and rascist behavior. It was a behavior that encouraged lawless elements both among themselves in violation of their own rules of conduct and the conduct of those on the street. It is difficult to believe justice was served by the hysteria that these people encouraged.
I have read that "Nifong" has already entered the dictionaries (meaning something like "railroad"). In reading the Duke Chronicle website, I've notice the students have a term for the activities of the Duke administration and faculty --"diversity racism".
I think it's time we help make new words of "88ists" and "88ism". These would be people ("ists") and beliefs ("ism") who agree with the 88. For instance, if someone asks why I describe a media piece as guilty of 88ism, I'd simply say that my standard is "Is it something that one of the original 88 would probably write or agree with?"
There's really no reason to be grim about this either. I can imagine a whole slew of 88ist jokes, maybe along the lines of Jeff Foxworthy's "You Might Be A Redneck" jokes:
"If the word 'patriarchy' was anywhere in your wedding vows ... You Might Be An 88ist!"
"If your wallet has more pictures of Che Guevara than your own children ... You Might Be An 88ist!"
Had Mangam not been observed in a parked car by a police officer this whole affair might not have taken hold. Her own situation (probation) was reason enough for her to initiate this hoax. The hoax as it developed has been an amazing outing of rascism and bigotry of the Durham community. Theirs is a rascist world view that extends from the streets of the city to the highest levels of academia even to the office of the president of Duke University and into the main stream media. What might be accepted as normal behavior for the NC NAACP is reflectd in the corruption of a police department and those charged with obtaining justice for their community all the while accompanied by the yelling and rationalizing of the likes of the intellectual harpies at Duke. They are the Duke Group88 who pandered and played their unennobled part in a horrid victimization of decent young people attending a Duke University heretofore presented to them as a place of diversity and tolerance. Mark Twain himself couldn't make this up.
Do you draw any conclusions from the fact that the academic discipline of the honor roll students (other than the economics and anatomy majors) are in departments that appear to be home to the gender, "speak truth to power" faculty crowd and not in harder disciplines like math or engineering or the physical sciences?
Anon 5:56am --
"Draw any conclusions," no.
Of the fifteen male honorees, seven majored in History, one in Sociology, one in English, and one studied a fifth year in Liberal Studies.
Of the nine honored women, two specialized in History, one in Psychology, one in Public Policy Studies, one in Art History, one in Sociology, and one in Cultural Anthropology.
To my knowledge, to date none of these seventeen students have spoken publically to complain about unjust or inappropriate conduct on the part of the faculty of their home departments.
On the other hand, none appear to have risen to defend the fairness and wisdom of their teachers, either.
It would be interesting to find out these honorees' views of the matter.
The NC NAACP website continues to host the libelous 82-point attack on the lacrosse team to which Prof. Johnson refers. It is here. Rev. Barber's smiling face graces the top of the page, serving as an endorsement of its vile contents.
Duke Asst. Prof Michael Gustafson and others have repeatedly contacted the NCNAACP, asking that they remove this page from their site.
The truth may yet make the NAACP free enough to reform their website and apologize for their poisonous conduct to date. However, that day is still a distant hope.
The main building at the University of Texas at Austin is inscribed with the words, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free", but even my alma mater is now infested with 88ists.
I've really appreciated your website, Professor Johnson. I could not have approached this madness in the calm manner that you have employed. God alone knows how you have done it.
And, I'm glad you are closing up shop, too. I appreciate the links to these fools, I guess, but about all it proves is that idiots abound in this world. Counterpunch, one of the websites that you cite in this post, is just a complete nutjob site.
The race hustling business is firmly entrenched and unmoveable. Humanities departments in universities are basket cases, and will remain so.
I've got a limit to how much outrage I can stomach. After a while, what good does it do? I've developed a habit of reading your posts, and by and large they've been excellent. I'll be glad when you shut down, so that I would get my stomach tied up in a knot over this stuff any more.
I'm grateful that you accomplished the main goal, which was to prevent this unjust prosecution of three innocent men. Having any more knowledge of the morons on Duke's humanities faculty, or of the crazy racists at the NAACP... well, what's the purpose of bothering with that?
K.C.,
This was a great post across-the-board. The NAACP truly has turned away from whatever civil rights emphasis it might have had to being an organization that has no interest at all in the truth. It is ironic that Barber used that particular verse from the Bible, since if any one person has not been interested in the truth, it has been Barber.
As for the academic performance of the LAX players, we once again see the utter hypocrisy of someone like Orin Starn. However, at least Starn has performed a useful service: helping to expose just what frauds he and some of his fellow faculty members really are.
Does anyone know how this hero of the disadvantaged, Michael B. Nifong, is spending his retirement days?
Barber sees the truth through NAACP eyes--the truth is the truth if it is to the advantage of "our people". Otherwise, they're lies or inflammatory statements.
To discern the truth of the above, one needs only to visit the NCNAACP website. Truth appears only in the John verse--no in anything else.
Sadly, groups like the ncnaacp and the new black panther party have absolutely no basis in history with the civil rights movement of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. He fought for fairness, not just advancing black people. There was honor in his fight.
Honor and truth don't exist in these two groups, the DDA's office or the DPD.
As a sidelight, NC is really suffering. Jim Black is under indictment for accepting bribes and other charges. Doesn't look good for elected officials in that state, does it?
Jim Black--Former Speaker of the House
http://www.newsobserver.com/1565/story/627892.html
and here's another example:
http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/630464.html
Paul Logli is the DA where I live, Winnebago County Illinois. (Rockford).
Dear Shouting,
I'm a member of a humanities department at a large state university and I've heard more from nut cases on this site than in my university. I imagine that's a matter of perspective.
One thing that legitimizes the academic record of the LAX players (male and female): NONE of them are from the "studies" majors.
I like the idea of coining the 88ist and 88ism into our vernacular. It didn't take Nifonged long to be included with a meaning of railroaded. A person could be 88ed by being Nifonged while promulgating one of the fantasy studies.
I find the assumption that science and math are per force more difficult disciplines laughable. Try checking ACTs. You'll notice the splits are not necessarily score high in math, good in everything else. Some students do well in, for example, English and science, and less well in reading and math. Or better in math and English, etc. Different disciplines have different requirements.
Some folks who are good in, for example, a hard science, can't do some humanities because they can't write or they don't do languages...
I find the assumption that science and math are per force more difficult disciplines laughable. Try checking ACTs. You'll notice the splits are not necessarily score high in math, good in everything else. Some students do well in, for example, English and science, and less well in reading and math. Or better in math and English, etc. Different disciplines have different requirements.
Some folks who are good in, for example, a hard science, can't do some humanities because they can't write or they don't do languages...
As to the communist question, suffice it to say that some pigs are more equal than others.
KC you sly dog - "weighs in" - dang you set the bar high. I better bring my "A" game to subject of such gravity.
The NAACP may be good for one thing...
A friend, a former Big Six accounting partner, use to donate $100 to the NAACP. His reasoning?
That were he audited, there was a high probability that either a minority or liberal would be conducting the audit and look favorably upon his donation.
That is what the NAACP has come to...
I like the idea of coining new words derived from the 88 per the comments of rrhamilton For instance , fifth columnist , is a fairly well recognized term 70 yars after the Spanish civil war .
As for nifong as a verb , it could also mean to fall on one's face after inviting attention to oneself . It could be another dubious recognition such as the Darwin award .
I see Cash has left a steaming turd for us here! We will not be satisfied with just the head of Mike Nifong on a pike. There are plenty more that contributed to this Hoax.
Don't get none on ya, Cash
9:54
Isn't "fifth columnist," like "Quisling," usually associated with the Second World War?
What if the honored LAX students who majored in history and other disciplines from which the 88 came actually liked their departments and some of those teachers? They may not be going after heads on pikes as during the French Revolution. (I mean, how "left" of you!!)
I am convinced that Precious picked the three players that she figured came from the wealthiest families, in order to have three deep pockets to sue.
Their profiles on the Duke Lacrosse website showed that they had attended expensive private/parochial high schools, and that they came from affluent hometowns.
A quick Google search showed that Evans' dad was a partner in a DC law firm, and Finnerty's dad was a Wall Street heavy.
She may have been assisted by an attorney interested in taking her case.
Read the text of the line-up on Liestoppers. She named Finnerty last, and once the objective of picking the three rich ones was met, she blew through the remainder of the line-up with no recognition of the remaining players.
Precious, and probably some skum lawyer, got off cleanly with a criminal attempt to frame potential lawsuit tartets.
I do not know how but maybe someone should link this NAACP page to a national media source....could be another story of the continued 'crap' out there against the players...even after the AG announcement...
rod allison, detroit said...
I am convinced that Precious picked the three players that she figured came from the wealthiest families, in order to have three deep pockets to sue
I don't think Crystal's motives were that lofty. I believe her whole motivation in this was simply to stay out of mandatory detox. As bad as her drug problems are, she would have been a raving lunatic in detox. Can't get drugs there. Kim, the other dancer is the one looking for money. And since nobody will pay her to talk, she wouldn't even talk to the SP's. Just my opinion
GAK
10:01- It's not up to the players to place Hoaxsmen's heads on pikes, thats the job of the good citizens of Durham. If the citizen's of Durham fail to properly investigate and punish the Hoaxmen, then the job falls to the citizens of the entire Union.
I hope that the lacrosse players have befriended some of their professors. Afterall, those professors should have a few friends that are functioning adults in the real world.
The line up on April 4th was 3 weeks after the party. At that time, I don't think Precious was still facing mandatory detox over being found in Kim's car on March 14th. So, pardon me, how getting out of detox could have been her motivation in April, when she actually picked people in a line up?
I'm glad that Gustafson has called for the McSurely smear to be taken down.
Perhaps we can find a prominent place to put up one of those JavaScript clocks along the lines of "Days that the NC-NAACP has left in place a libellous smear against the lacrosse players after having all its errors pointed out to them: NN days, NN hours, NN minutes ..."
Rod Allison is correct. Does anyone have any idea of the name of the the advising lawyer? Were any leading tort attorneys contacted by members of the family?
KC --
Excellent roundup; just two points, though:
The editorial blurb from the Kansas City Star was actually taken from a blog post by Cathy Young here. They do credit her on the page, but not in a terribly clear fashion.
Why mention Mike Stark's column and not mention how jaw-droppingly wrong it gets even basic facts of the case?:
* "the testimony of an examining nurse who said a rape had taken place" ?
* "physical evidence of assault" ?
* "the lack of a toxicology report made it impossible to prove whether the victim was drugged" ?
* "the lack of DNA evidence may simply have indicated the assailants used condoms" ?
* "There was no "exculpatory" evidence proving the innocence of the suspects" ?
How does someone midway through 2007 claim to be writing knowledgeably about the lacrosse case while making brutally incompetent errors such as this?
Bill Griffith will go down in Duke history as one of the very best administrators that the University ever had the privilege to employ. As did William Preston Few, Terry Sanford, Eddie Cameron and Wallace Wade-Bill Griffith made a real difference in the lives of many Duke students and in the growth of the University. I was fortunate to have known all but President Few and watched Bill Griffith conduct his affairs and deal with students in an absolutely open and fair manner. And he understood the unique role that athletics has played in the evolution of Duke University. Let's don't confuse Bill Griffith with the current set of clowns (Duke administrators)who misuse the award named after him to reward bigotry.
12:26
"The last paragraph of this post sums up why the civil lawsuits against Nifong and Durham police are important."
Absolutely.
The part about the North Korealina
NAACP sums up why the NCNAACP should
also be sued into the netherworlds.
AMac 6:19 said...
...To my knowledge, to date none of these seventeen students have spoken publicly to complain about unjust or inappropriate conduct on the part of the faculty of their home departments.
...On the other hand, none appear to have risen to defend the fairness and wisdom of their teachers, either.
...It would be interesting to find out these honorees' views of the matter.
::
History has already reserved a place for these students in the history books standing tall next to the picture of 250 faculty, staff, student and community Potbangers screaming about.. Taking Back the Night.
These students waited patiently for us to help them Take Back the Truth.
Yet, Duke continues to maintain the web sites that are emblematic of the hypocrisy that surrounds this case.
http://www.duke.edu/web/saturdaynight/index.html
http://wc.studentaffairs.duke.edu/sass/location/index.html
Where is the outrage?
::
GP
The NAACP is closing shop. They are closing local chapters as fast as you can say Cash Michaels. The reason is clear from how they continue to see the LAX Hoax and the world. They are simply not relevant. The hatred and the bashing from supposed members of the "cloth" is frightening. Rev. Barber, your organization benefits no one but yourself.
GAK 10:33 said...
...rod allison, detroit said...
...I am convinced that Precious picked the three players that she figured came from the wealthiest families, in order to have three deep pockets to sue
...I don't think Crystal's motives were that lofty. I believe her whole motivation in this was simply to stay out of mandatory detox. As bad as her drug problems are, she would have been a raving lunatic in detox. Can't get drugs there. Kim, the other dancer is the one looking for money. And since nobody will pay her to talk, she wouldn't even talk to the SP's. Just my opinion
::
You make an important point but bring forward another question.
If the Loopy Left was so willing to bang their pots and advocate castration for Duke students why did they not express similar outrage over Crystal's ability to care for her young children at home?
There is much more here than meets the eye.
::
GP
The first meeting of the Whichard Committee, charged with investigating the Durham Police Department’s mishandling of the lacrosse case...Tamara Gibbs reports that the committee is considering issuing a subpoena to Mangum.
Under what authority would this committee be able to issue a subpoena to anyone? I can see why the police officers involved have to appear - they're employees - and I can see why the involved defense lawyers want to appear. Does this committee have subpoena power?
What relevant information could Chief Chalmers possibly have to testify about? He was never around. Why waste time calling a witness who can only say something like: "I don't know anything about that because when that happened, I was out of town . . . on vacation . . . on a leave of absence . . . being abducted by space aliens . . . ."
NAACP - closing shop - is this true - any indication that the number of white donations are down? I stopped mine when it became clear these folk are not for Justice for all, but just black people.
12:15
Correction: they're not for justice for black people: only
SOME black people. Consider their frequent attacks on Justice Thomas,
Secretary Rice, Thomas Sowell and many others who don't fit into their definition of "blackness."
Even their recent past President didn't fit their agenda.
Years ago, I use to believe that he NAACP stood for something positive, but in the last 15 years or so, it has become clearer to me...they seem to be more concerned with "keeping the people down" instead of helping them break the cycle of poverty, government entitlement, and other issues. All I see them for, is like Rev. Jesse and Rev Al, is being shakedown artists for their own "special causes".
DPD just can't seem to catch a break ...I still think that Sgt. Shelton needs to be the new Chief of the department.
Awesome news about the men's and women's LAX teams...God bless them for surviving this mess and being the leaders that they are.
I still think that an outside group needs to be looking at the DPD/DA's office there in Durham - especially any cases that Nifong or his cohorts may have prosecuted. The LAX case may be just the tip of the iceberg that sunk SS Nifong.
Alumni of Duke need to be putting pressure (i.e. withholding donations)on the BOT and other members of the administration for their conduct in this matter...
OK.
Several significant points have been made today that should be explored.
1) It was reported shortly after Mangum began the hoax that millionaire shakedown attorney Willie Gary was in contact with her family and visited them. He told Mangum's mother that he would assist them in any way they needed. He could have played a role.
2) With much work, diligence, and faithful repetition, "Nifonged" and "88-ism -ist -ed" can become a part of everyday language....just as so many other words and phrases have been added simply by frequent usage.
Let's all help this along in some small or large way each day.
3) Some of us should make a concerted effort to illuminate William Barber's continued libel on the publicly-funded website. The NAACP can be sued for their open lies and continued assault on justice.
4) From yesterday's post, the idea of bringing Camille Paglia to Duke is sterling. This type of ongoing effort is the only defense against the Gritty Gang of 88. They must be fed a relentless dose of illumination and shame.....but most of all, reminders of what they did to innocent students.
These things have to be an ongoing effort of all of us who have participated here.
For me, this lacrosse hoax has served as a catalyst for bringing fairness and sanity back. So many have seen what actually goes on with the so-called professional "victims" and how they are really the victimizers of others. This is one positive result from the past year and a half.
Debrah
Glad you took a shot at Barber, KC. Please tell me that you've come to your senses and you now realize that the prism through which blacks analyze all problems is black v. white. And please tell that you realize this about obama.
"Anonymous said...
See that helicopter? Its going to pick up one illiterate peasant at random from a rice paddy in Laos and drop him naked in a major U.S. city chosen at random. In 30 years, that man will have found economic success and all of his children will be tax-paying, college graduates.
The local NAACP will want to know what these people are doing to help the most recent generation of inner-city victims.
Jul 8, 2007 2:00:00 AM"
Truer words were never spoken.
Then only difference between today's NAACP and the one thirty years from now (the letters NAACP may change but some form of the organization is sure to exist) is they won't just be blaming the evil white people for oppressing and holding back their constituents for 200 years. By then, their bigotry and bias will be primarily directed against Hispanics, Asians and members of any other race who achieve success due to their individual personal initiative, education and hard work rather than hand outs.
When KC broke the story that the two student twits Malaklou and Nartey won the Griffith Award, I posted a letter I emailed to the Student Affairs generic mail address(directed towards Moneta).
Did I get an answer? No.
Does anyone else find it funny that when the Duke President or Chair of the BOD writes the alums an email, there is no mechanisms for the alumni to respond?
I did see another post on another topic, asking folks here to get together an email campaign to the alumni. But who controls that kind of database of alumni info? DUKE DOES.
Despite sending multiple emails to the Duke Admin, I never ONCE received a reply.
Does ANYONE have ideas of how to start a grss-roots campaign to bring broad-based alumni pressure to bear on the administration?
ES Duke 1990
Does ANYONE have ideas of how to start a grss-roots campaign to bring broad-based alumni pressure to bear on the administration?
ES Duke 1990
Jul 8, 2007 12:56:00 PM
ES Duke 1990
You can start by locating the e-mail addresses of each BOT member and start with them.
Their names are listed at the link below, but unfortunately, there are not any addresses. It's easy to remain aloof from Duke's problems while remaining unreachable.
If anyone could add the addresses to the list of names and share it with readers of this and other blogs, that would get things started in the right direction.
Trustees of Duke University
This quote is from Slate in an article about something that attorney/writer Debra Dickerson wrote. Someone should send this to the "Rev. Dr." William Barber and Cash Michaels.
While I'm all for subverting the dominant (white) Barbie paradigm that equates beauty with starvation, I'm also for subverting the black paradigm of thumbing our noses at mainstream beauty standards just because they're mainstream. Obesity is killing us, and our obesity is in part cultural; Buffie's butt-growing supplements and rejection of exercise are a choice, a preference. When significant numbers of black women tell researchers they don't work out because the sweat will ruin their expensive hairdos, it's time to take stock of black culture. Not everything about us should be either encouraged or celebrated.
She also tackles the idea that fat people can (ready?) see themselves as normal:
Womenshealth.gov reports that "compared with overweight white Americans, overweight black Americans are two to three times more likely to say their weight is average -- even after they've been told they are overweight or obese by a doctor (emphasis added by Dickerson). It's one thing not to "see" that you need to lose weight. It's quite another to reject that knowledge from the medical professional you sought out.
"Doctor, am I fat?" Come on now.
The rest of this nicely-written trollbait covers familiar territory. There's a lot of the "You're eating yourself to death!!!!" mentality going on here. The kicker is, of course, in the final paragraph:
...blacks have to learn to see a seriously overweight sister not just as freewheeling and "down" enough to enjoy her fried pork chops but as a woman who might be putting her health at risk.
Debrah
Take a moment to view this one. You'll have to wait a minute until the Snapple commercial is finished; however, check this out. The black community has not only jumped the shark on the issue of race, but they have stuffed the magnet!
This whole conversation is ludicrous. Poor Barack. Dickerson has written some good columns on occasion, but I see that no one can pry her away from the same old, same old.
Dickerson_on_Colbert
Debrah
A sidebar on the diverse characteristics of the actors in this drama:
The diverse metanarratives (and local narratives) of the 88,
of the NBPP and the NCNAACP, of institutions such as Duke,
of governmental agencies and their agents, all merge into
one big, nihilistic mess.
Presume a statement (a straw-man):
"Eliminate women, and you'd eliminate all the world's problems."
Followed by the response:
"Yes, because then you'd have no men (after awhile,) and therefore no people to populate the planet."
The Nihilist would conclude:
"What would it matter?"
If that's the kind of world you wish to live in, then one would
rationally - (so-to-speak) -support Brodhead,
the Duke BoT, the City of Durh, the MSM: they represent
the worst kind of anarchy (not the kind of liberty that Libertarians
like Bill Anderson espouse.)
Ah, if we could just go back to "rule of law, not of men,"
it'd be a beginning: Nifong and his collaborators/enablers
have eloquently demonstrated why we should
fervently desire a rule of law, and not of men.
KC's evisceration of these characters shows the gut, the core,
the dimorphic, disambiguous rot: the conflatable elements,
diverse and unwieldy as they are, amount
to, in John Gardner's words (attributed to the character Grendel):
"Nihilo ex nihilo."
Nothing from nothing.
Rule of law is "something."
As Mary Magdalene plaintively begs in the
pseudo-scriptural Jesus Christ Superstar:
"Can we begin again?"
One point:
"To my knowledge, to date none of these seventeen students have spoken publicly to complain about unjust or inappropriate conduct on the part of the faculty of their home departments."
A few of the honorees--such as Bo Carrington--had nothing but good experiences in spring 2006 with Duke profs. That wasn't the case for several others.
OK, so if these young people are getting such terrific grades, how can you simultaneously maintain that their "liberal" teachers are prejudiced against them? And who are the "several others?" Fact or fantasy, KC?
signed,
Just Curious
KC,
Hard not to note how many were History majors on the All-ACC Academic Team! (Did that make you proud?)
DIW critics of disciplines OTHER than the sciences, mathematics and so forth...critics of English,
History, Psychology etc should look at the list; critics of athletes-as-scholars should also
take note, as you've indicated with the comment re. Orin Starn.
(I'll shut up 'bout now.)
“Defending” the Duke lacrosse players in this context hardly means defending them as models of virtue and sterling moral character.
I watched Reade Seligmann testify at Nifong's disbarment hearing and saw him once or twice on TV. I came away convinced that he a great kid and is, in fact, a person of high moral character.
It is more than shocking that the NC NAACP insists upon distributing libelous nonsense to their mindless followers. Barber and others insist upon building and maintaining the fantasy that everyone in society is out to victimize and harm black people.
LOL!!!
This is from the same KOO-KOO LAND where people like H-S letter submitter Carrie Smith resides.
Recently, there have been some very gruesome cases in the news which serve to totally upend the pathetic tales from people like the Rev. Barber. Barber and his fruitless janissaries wish to divert attention away from the real problems in their community because it would take real work to solve them....rather than gluttonous preaching.
We all know of the alleged rape of a white Duke student at a black fraternity which took place as the lacrosse hoax was in full swing: Not one big story in the media over this.
Would that fact be of any concern to the Rev. Barber?
Recently, somewhere in Tennessee, a white couple were sodomized, raped, and killed....then disinfectant was poured down their throats to destroy semen evidence.....as they were thrown into a dumpster. The perpetrators were black. Even the white guy was forced into oral sex with the attackers who then robbed them.
Would this be considered a hate crime for the Rev. Barber? Not very much media coverage of this incident either. Certainly, no victims' rights advocates marched for these poor souls.
We also recall about three Juneteenth celebrations that turned into riots, beatings, and murders of innocents bystanders.
Did those horrific events concern the Rev. Barber?
Lastly, this is a difficult one to discuss, but must be highlighted in order to further illuminate the gross media double standards which always exist.
I am providing a link to today's coverage of the murder; however, yesterday's coverage is the one I wish I could find...which is no longer up on the website.
When I came home last night it was pretty late and just before bed, I remembered that I hadn't skimmed the print version of the N & O and I wish I hadn't done so because what I read of this Redman murder kept me awake just thinking about this poor woman.
Wake County prosecutor Doug Faucette painted a vivid picture Friday of the brutal rape, bloody knife attack, and torture Lauren Redman endured at the hands of her killers in 2005.
"Just how severe was this crime?" Faucette asked the jury. "In the last minutes of her life, she was actually looking at her intestines."
Byron Waring admitted stabbing the young woman twice with a "nice, medium-sized butcher knife", slashing her throat once, stomping and punching her in the face and holding her down while his accomplice, Joseph Sanderlin raped her.
Redman was stabbed 47 times, according to testimony Friday. Several courtroom spectators and jurors were aghast as Waring's taped confession detailed how Sanderlin, after raping Redman, began "working on her stomach" with the knife until her insides "just fell out".
"While he was doing that, I got the wallet," Waring said in a taped confession. After taking her wallet, which contained about $100, Waring fled in the woman's car. He said he kept $20 and gave Sanderlin the rest. Waring used the $20 to buy himself a pack of cigarettes.
Lauren_Redman
Far from the fantastic lies perpetuated by Duke's Gritty Gang of 88, NC NAACP's Barber, and all the other race hustlers.....white-on-black crime is virtually non-existent. The crimes Barber and his ilk should be concerned about are in his midst. Black-on-black crime being the most prolific.
Do I need to underscore the race of the perpetrators and their victim in the gruesome Redman murder above?
Lauren Redman was a white woman. Her killers, Byron Waring and Joseph Sanderlin are black.
Would this horrific crime and heinous murder concern the Rev. William Barber at all? What's that? He doesn't think it's worth his time?
Only by illuminating how dishonest these race hustlers are might we all some day live in a just society.
The idea that "victim" status exempts some from the need to examine, defend, or explain their actions is a dangerous one.
Debrah
Privilege sure doesn't just come in just one color. The "soft racism of low expectations" also confers a type of privilege. Take Sharpton, for example: time and again skin color alone has shielded Sharpton from any serious consequences for his statements and actions - and he presumes upon that privilege all the time, counts on it, is swelled with arrogance because of it.
CGM is highly privileged, or she'd be facing damned serious charges.
Special treatment, treatment with kid gloves, dispensation from the normal rules and expectations that bind the rest of us: that's privilege. Many of the G88 enjoy that sort of privilege.
It's got nothing to do with the facts, nothing to do with justice. If Reverend Barber doesn't see this type of black privilege in operation, then maybe he needs the scales to fall from his eyes.
rod allison, detroit said...
I am convinced that Precious picked the three players that she figured came from the wealthiest families, in order to have three deep pockets to sue
----------------
I don't think Crystal's motives were that lofty. I believe her whole motivation in this was simply to stay out of mandatory detox. As bad as her drug problems are, she would have been a raving lunatic in detox. Can't get drugs there. Kim, the other dancer is the one looking for money. And since nobody will pay her to talk, she wouldn't even talk to the SP's. Just my opinion.
GAK
---------------------------
I think we could both be right GAK. I'm not saying it was a premeditated scheme to sue. Her initial motivation probably was to stay out of detox. But once having made the false charges, and seeing how eager Durham authorities were to act on it, she also used the opportunity to try to sue somebody.
The believers in the zip code hoax are in outer space. No way would Crystal think of this scheme. Staying out of detox was the game. Nifong took the ball for election. The simplest explanation is the best.
Just Curious at 2:18 -
Prof. Johnson has answered you, but I want to add one point.
Getting good grades is a function of how well a student does in the class; it is perfectly possible for the instructor to be very prejudiced against that student and still award a good grade. I've given good grades to students I rather disliked and failed students I really liked (this is far more common, and heartbreaking). One of the absolute worst sins any teacher can commit is to allow grading to be swayed by personal likes or dislikes. An 88er (say) may deserve severe criticism for many sins and still not go that low. That is, after all, why the Kim Curtis affair was so scandalous.
Debrah,
Annually there are about 20,000 white women who suffer, like Redman, rape at the hands of black attackers -- about 2,000 of which are gangrapes. (Get the statistics now, as 88ists in the government is making it harder and harder to divine real interracial crime stats.)
Interesting thing about the NCAAP and interracial rape. Back near the turn of the last century, when the NCAAP was founded, about the only crime for which most authorities agreed a man could be lynched was for interracial rape -- and yes, white men were lynched for it, too. Then, as now, there were far fewer white-on-black rapes than the reverse.
The NCAAP "made its bones" not by opposing interracial rape, but by opposing lynching for interracial rape. So, the NCAAP is today being true to its roots -- except today, it would lynch white men on the mere accusation of interracial rape.
You are correct Debrah.
The question is; why does the press give so much coverage to white on black crime, and (in the abscense of celebrity involvement) so little to black on white, no matter how horrific?
New Jersey Lawyer. This comment is probably more relevant to K.C.'s "Phantom Menace" post. However, having read Mike Stark's spin on the "we'll never know what really happened at the Lacrosse party" genre (it goes with the "they may not have committed rape, but they're not angels/saints/choirboys genre). The fact that prosecutors have generally been given a fairly free rein with respect to misconduct (and prosecutorial immunity has been given a broad interpretation) does not mean that Nifong (along with other prosecutors guilty of misconduct) should not be punished. Nor does it mean that well-to-do white defendants should be punished for crimes they did not commit to "even up the score." It does mean that, rather than engaging in ideological blindness, organizations like the NAACP and the ACLU should step up their monitoring of cases, especially rape and murder cases where the defendants are not white or do not have access to first-rate legal talent. Aggressive monitoring of those cases might prevent the injustices arising out of prosecutorial misconduct. That point leads me to another point. I must take issue with what has become almost a litany among many writers that if the races of victims and accused in the Duke Lacrosse case were switched, the case would not have attacted the media attention that it did, nor would it have ended as positively for the defendants. In light of the initial inaction of the NC State (democratic) leadership (including the Democrat representing Durham in Congress), the aggressive monitoring of the case by the NAACP, the public outcry against the defendants, I cannot believe that, were Nifong to be pandering to white racist voters, the case would have survived as long as it did. Even were the races of accused and accuser switched, the case woudl have had a potent mix of race, sex and class. NC's Democratic state leadership would have found some what to shut the case down and make an example out of Nifong. The NAACP (together with the ACLU) would, no doubt, have gotten the accuser's "identification," suppresed and the indictments dismissed or quashed. My guess is that, even if it were only to embarasse NC's Democratic leadership, Pres. Bush would have ordered some type of investigation. The accused would not have had to wait almost a year for exoneration. In contrast to what Stark and others have written, the Duke 3 suffered much more from their social status (and, I suspect, regional origin) than they benefitted from it.
8:59 AM
Well, there are what, about 88 of them at Duke.
In is article, Mike Stark criticizes Nifong for not having blood samples taken on Crystal Mangan when she was brought to Duke. My understanding, however, that blood tests are not automatically done on an alleged rape victim, because defense attorneys can use evidence of intoxication against the complaining witness. In other words, it appears that blood tox tests are not done, because rape crisis centers do not want that evidence available to defense attorneys. I note also that testing of Ms. Mangan's hair indicated that a "date rape" drug had not probably been used.
rrhamilton--
I didn't know those statistics.
Most people are too busy just going about the tasks of life, raising children, and negotiating a career to read about all these things or even care.
The Duke case, however, has drawn many to all these various issues by the mere grotesqueness of Mike Nifong, the Gritty Gang of 88, and Richard Brodhead. One doesn't need much study of a case to understand how bad this whole thing has been.
It's bizarre, but when I hear of a crime on the news, I hope that the race issue is not a feature simply because everything has become so sordid along those lines. You just know that the whole case will be perverted by using victimhood.
There is no turning back for the offenders now. People like the 88 have been outed and their inglorious mission has been neutered in a very serious way.
I just wish that more people in the black community would take a strong role in doing something about these problems.....such as being honest about what really plagues them.....and how it impacts future progress. Most have even attacked Bill Cosby viciously for telling the truth.
There are no excuses for the continuing squalor.
Debrah
Debrah,
I first became interested in the question about ante-bellum and jim crow era interracial rape because of Eugene Robinson's column in The Washington Post about the lacrosse case last April, where Robinson wrote:
The context? A bunch of jocks at an elite university in the once-segregated South -- privileged white kids who play lacrosse, a sport that conjures images of impossibly green suburban playing fields surrounded by the Range Rovers of doting parents -- decide to have a party, so they call an escort service and hire a couple of strippers. The hired help arrives: two black women, one of them a 27-year-old single mother who is working her way through North Carolina Central University, a decidedly proletarian institution across town. Within a few hours the woman becomes simply "the accuser" when she tells police she was raped by some of those white jocks.
That's the basic scenario, and it's impossible to avoid thinking of all the black women who were violated by drunken white men in the American South over the centuries. The master-slave relationship, the tradition of droit du seigneur, the use of sexual possession as an instrument of domination -- all this ugliness floods the mind, unbidden, and refuses to leave.
I wrote to Robinson, asking if he had any evidence of this "history". Naturally he didn't respond. When another nationally-known writer wrote a column criticizing Robinson, I sent a copy of my Robinson letter to him. This writer asked me if I would do some research for him on the subject of interracial rape statistics, and I agreed to do so. So, that's the origin of nearly all of my knowledge of the subject.
TO rod allison--
You know the answer to that. It's ingrained so deeply in media circles. Even if individual reporters personally know the truth of a particular subject matter, they also operate with a mental script as to how it is covered for public consumption.
The ombudsman for the N&O has done a column on this topic of sorts in today's paper. He frames it around the issue of newspapers printing gender, sexual orientation, or racial slurs in the process of reporting a story.
I certainly wouldn't use anything that Ted Vaden issues as "correct" and take it as law, given that he was there all along as his paper printed a full page with the photos of the lacrosse players made to look like a wanted ad.
It took a long time for the N&O to catch up to reality.....except for Joe Neff.
I'll give you a few personal examples how a newspaper frames an issue the way they want it to be seen:
In one letter that I sent the N&O last Spring, I mentioned that if black students had been treated the way they treated Reade, Collin, and David there would be riots in the streets of Durham.
I had to omit that part of the commentary because the editorial editors (Torrey and Wheeler), who decide columns and letters, didn't like it because it accused people of perhaps committing a crime. LOL!!!
In Durham! ???
But we all know from just watching that the assertion is true.
Yet they had no problem printing comments from a "professor" from NCCU who said the reason black students were often behind in their studies was because of a "white supremacist" society holding them down.
It's all so nutty and sad.
Debrah
From a New Jersey lawyer. I understand KC's concern about the proposal to subpoena Crystam Mangum to appear before the committee investigating the Durham Police Department's handling of the Lacrosse case. I suspect that Ms. Cattoti sees it as a way of retrying the case. However, having Ms. Mangum appear before the committee may have a silver lining. Ms. Mangum's appearance and her responses to questions by committee-memmbers will probably only provide further support for the proposition that there never was a rape and that Nifong should never have sought indictments. I have suspicioned that Nifong's escape plan from a case he knew he couldn't win was to put Ms. Mangum on the stand at the scheduled February 5th hearing on the suppression of the "no-wrong-answer "identification" of the Duke 3. Nifong probabaly would have spun Ms. Mangum's performance as "the poor woman has been under so much pressure from an aggressive set of defense attorneys." But it would have been clear that Ms. Mangum was too troubled to be a credible witness, and that would have been the end of the case. Too bad for Nifong that his withholding of exculpatory evidence and inflammatory statements caught up with him.
Debrah,
Leonard Pitts replied to the "incident" in Tennessee by concluding in his column:
"cry me a river." Not only was his comment (and column) incredibly insensitive
and bordering on the bizarre, his commentary that this was not a hate crime
makes one one wonder exactly, if not this, what actually constitutes "hate-crime?"
(I know, I know...)
Pitts cried a river when he got volumes of threatening emails and letters.
I don't endorse threats and hate-mail, but his whining was silly.
So Mr. Pitts? Please take out a hanky and proceed to cry me a river.
What did Pitts expect? A lunch invitation?
Here's an important point for those - (including myself) - who've been calling for a federal investigation of the DPD and Durham:
The prosecutor in Surry county, where Michael Vick's relatives were apparently being investigated for dog fighting and other related
federal crimes apparently lost his nerve, and didn't serve the warrant that was written to search the property
for the bodies of 30 or more dogs allegedly buried on the property.
The prosecutor, who is black, felt that there was something inappropriate about the way the warrant was written,
and waited until it was expired. (Then, of course, it wasn't served.) No word on why he waited, or didn't request a
properly written warrant.
In any case, the feds jumped in and took over the property, searching it
and leaving without comment about the evidence they'd taken with them.
Michael Vick was not charged, blaming family members for abusing his generosity -
(hey Mike, ever see "Trading Places?" You might've had a clue if you'd watched it!)
Personally, I doubt if Vick knew. I'm waiting for hard evidence before I make a comment
proclaiming his guilt, anyway.
BTW: Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter alleges Vick's celebrity and race were involved
in the fed's investigation when his office couldn't find its way off the thumbs they were sitting on.
(Cry me a river, Mr. Poindexter!)
Based upon the surprising speed that the feds raided the property in question,
one might expect that any lapse in the progress in the investigation of the DPD and Durham
will bring in a federal squad. Wonder why everyone was so eager to play this one straight,
from the AG to the Bar?
Even giving the Bar and AG Cooper credit for their work - (I do) -
the Surry comparison is exhibit A, for sure, as evidence that the fed has been closely watching,
waiting in the wings
for a slip-up. (North Korealina surely knows it, too.)
TO rrhamilton--
Eugene Robinson is another South Carolinian like John-Boy Edwards.....and he has something else in common with Edwards.
He is massaged and coddled all the time by MSNBC's Chris Matthews. He's on the show all the time giving the same kind of predictable commentary.
And Matthews supports everything Robinson says, no matter how erroneous. Just as he coddles and strokes John and Elizabeth Edwards. It was hideous that he allowed the attack on Ann Coulter that was basically a valentine to "Earth Mama" Elizabeth who Matthews openly adores. I think he went to school with her at UNC-CH at one time....IIRC.
Robinson can be very articulate, but when you get him on the race issue, he's just another goofy, partisan fool.
Debrah
TO "mac"--
So did they find a lot of dogs that had been buried?
I truly hope not. I'm more concerned with the suffering of those animals than any human. Every time I read of an animal abuse case, it ruins my entire day.....but there just isn't enough manpower to go after all of the human beasts who do such things to animals.
If only animal cruelty could be elevated to a felony in every state, that would help so much.
Debrah
Oh, "mac"!
I almost forgot. A few days ago you asked a question and I only saw your post much later. Sometimes I don't have time to read all the comments. Just KC's post of the day.
You asked about the identity of "Insufficiently Sensitive". Did you find the answer to that query?
Debrah
Debrah--re animal cruelty
This is a huge issue in legal ethics nowadays, and I agree with those that would confer the "human" status on all animals.
I recently saw a heart-breaking documentary about hoe chimpanzees are mistreated. A kind soul donated lots of money to finance a refuge for these abused animals. The documentary ended with 1 of the most brutalized chimps finally exiting his home to climb a tree. Watching the expressions on those chimps' faces as they eagerly ate their ice cream reminded me of their humanness. This is new area for "human" rights, and I salute all people who are entering the fray.
Polanski
Debrah,
No word so far.
ESPN's link to the story is a little less positive than my observations:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2884063
(Hate to admit it, but I don't know how to post a link.)
Debrah,
May have been another poster asking
about the identity of "insufficiently sensitive."
I had decided to stop posting (so much for that) because
I agreed with some that I was beginning to bully others,
(like Jack?) OK for trolls, who use
the tactics themselves, but not for "regulars."
I'm back, but with a little more
discretion with regard to my rebuttals.
Sorry I can't help you with the question!
Why are you interested in the identity of Insufficiently Sensitive?
Polanski 5:49
Agree with you completely on the treatment of chimps.
I took Anatomy and Physiology years ago, and had to perform
a pithing procedure on frogs,
where a needle was inserted into the foramen magnum of the frog,
and the needle was used to scramble the brains of the still-living frog.
Hideous. Unneccessary.
It is identical to one of the so-called "partial birth abortion" procedures.
BTW, I've had Gross Anatomy classes and workshops,
but the "volunteers" used were, indeed,
volunteers who had left their bodies to science.
No one asked the frogs or the chimps.
5:59
I don;t know who was interested, nor why:
t'weren't me!
TO "mac"--
I'll teach you, my dah-ling.
On to another sidebar.....if you have time, just for a laugh, go to the H-S opinion page and read Bob Ashley's Sunday scribblings. It's so pathetic.
He's been running that paper into the ground now for two and a half years. Every time he makes a trip somewhere.....anywhere.....even to the loo.....he has to tell everyone about it.
This man is so obviously needy. In need of relevance. I call his columns "diary entries" because they are always about him.
This butt-for-brains Ashley is the man who aided and fiercely supported Mike Nifong through this whole ordeal......and yet......
.....his subject matter for the space he takes up in their Weekly Reader is always about his life adventures.
I'd post it here, but KC would erase it----as well he should! But seriously, go read it. Ashley is drawing parallels to the terrorist attacks last week and his trip. He says he and his wife had just driven by the location of the bomb right before it exploded. LOL!
(Oh well, bad timing.)
LOL!!! LOL!!! LOL!!!
I always check out their opinion page just because it's so hilarious. To wit: Last week's Carrie Smith letter.
Debrah
One wonders if the two daughters and three sons of the Reverend all were born of the same woman?
TO "mac" and Roman--
I don't really care about that poster. Thought I was just making nice filler chit-chat......the way I do at parties.
I'm very gifted in filling in the silent spaces of conversation.
:>)
Debrah
kenb 4:26 said...
...That is, after all, why the Kim Curtis affair was so scandalous.
::
I don't think of Professor Curtis' behavior as scandalous. I think of Paris Hilton's behavior as scandalous.
Professor Curtis hurts people; got caught and is still around to do it again.
::
GP
Debrah 5:40:
Dogfighting is a felony in 48 states.
Gary,
You are so right. "Grade retaliation" is what--precisely? It's 1) libel; 2) grand larceny, and 3) academic fraud.
Johnson, I need to get out from under. Any plum jobs at BC?
Help!
Polanski
TO "mac"--
Good.
But what about tethering....and having no shelter in freezing cold.....starving an animal through neglect or cruelty.....and...and....and?
There's so much cruelty to animals that no one can make even a dent in alleviating it.
I could do harm to people who abuse animals. I don't worry about people, but I do worry about animals.
Debrah
Debrah said at 5:40 PM ...
I'm more concerned with the suffering of those animals than any human.
and Polanski said at 5:49 PM ...
Debrah--re animal cruelty
This is a huge issue in legal ethics nowadays, and I agree with those that would confer the "human" status on all animals.
and KC said two days ago...
[Kathy Rudy] currently is working on a project “critiquing animal rights from speciesist perspective.” Speciesism, explained Rudy, “refers to the growing discourse in humanities which challenges the human/animal distinction
I'm going to have to part company with Debrah, Polanski, and Kathy Rudy on this one. Shoot, Debrah particularly scares me: At least Rudy is talking only about equality; Debrah seems to want to go farther.
[Insert Rush Limbaugh's "Animal Rights Update Theme" here.]
And if y'all need tickets to the San Antonio Stock Show and Rodeo, I'll get them for you. :)
Who is Willie Gary? He is mentioned in Debrah's post.
Hamilton,
Here's a thought experiment for you. Go to your local park and observe the squirrels for 1 hour.
Do you really think you're better than them?
Polanski
The good Rev. Dr. Barber quotes the Bible with frequency and has a tendency to get lost in his own periphrastic meaninglessness.
I have to admit that I am not a scholar of the Bible; however, I recall that someone once mentioned that gluttony is listed as a sin.
It would seem that Barber employs a loose interpretation to his book when needed.
Debrah
Willie_Gary
Debrah
Does anyone know why gluttony was considered 1 of the 7 deadly sins?
Was grade retaliation in there?
Polanski
Polanski said
Hamilton,
Here's a thought experiment for you. Go to your local park and observe the squirrels for 1 hour.
Do you really think you're better than them?
I've done that experiment. I think my cat is superior to those squirrels. Now here's an experiment for you. Go into an animal-rich, human-free wilderness with no more than 10 pounds worth of supplies (you get to pick what you'll bring). Stay there for one full year. Then come back and tell us what you think.
Hamilton,
Are you asking me out on a date?
(not that there's anything wrong with that--lol)
Polanski
rrhamilton (6:32PM)--
I see that you are engaging in one of your heuristic lectures this evening.
:>)
Debrah
Wow.
You guys are sure into this animal thing. Questions: Does an animal remember anything other than its reponses to previous stimuli and related consequences? Do animals have a sense of right and wrong / good and evil? Do animals have emotions such as jealousy, envy, sympathy? Do animals understand concepts such as truth, charity, honor and cause/effect?
I do not claim to be the appropriate one to posit the right questions in this regard...surely others are more knowledgeable and able. But it seems to me, that if one is going to posit an equality to man or a superiority to man, the these are the types of questions that need to be asked and answered.
Or alternatively, one could posit that, the more removed man is from the pure thought process of animals and the simple (but important) survival instinct -- with its related actions, the more man is tainted and flawed...with reason being a defense of evil and wrongdoing.
I do know this, for sure. My dog loves me. And he'll bite you if you give the wrong answer. His name is Charlie.
Hell, Debrah, a redneck like me don't even know what "heuristic" means. But if it's about me, it must mean something like "charming" and "sexy", right?
And Polanski, if my choices are you and Crystal, then you ARE my date. :)
Inman said,
Wow.
You guys are sure into this animal thing. Questions: Does an animal remember anything other than its reponses to previous stimuli and related consequences? Do animals have a sense of right and wrong / good and evil? Do animals have emotions such as jealousy, envy, sympathy? Do animals understand concepts such as truth, charity, honor and cause/effect?
Sheesh, who cares? Like I tell my daughters: Girls rank animals on a "cuteness scale" -- hence, a puppy or bunny is at the top, and a snake or octopus is on the bottom. Guys rank animals on a "tasty scale", so we like cattle. :)
I agree with hamilton...if my choice is Polanski or "precious," I'd take Polanski sight unseen.
Further, I also rate animals on a tasty scale. Cattle, sheep, flounder, shrimp, trout, venison, pork, etc. ...These are all part of my Adkins approved diet.
rrhamilton (7:12PM)--
LIS!
You're funny!
Debrah
Debrah,
Could you please provide a link to an article by the brilliant British philosopher Roger Scruton. Article is entitled "Animal Rights," which is in the Summer 2000 volume of City Journal, the magazine published by the Manhattan Institite.
Scruton agrees with Inman. Great article.
Polanski
Debrah, could you fetch Polanski's pipe and slippers, too? :)
RRH
What kind of pipe? I might be interested....
What kind of pipe? I might be interested....
Sorry for the stutter. But the thought was exciting. Emotional residue of the sixth floor of a building with only five floors.
People like Cash and Barber have perverted the justice in the words spoken by Dr. Martin Luther King. They have thrown away the true power they could have. And in such a mindless way. Gregory.
K.C. on the History Channel, too! Multi-media-maven Johnson.
You guys are hilarious!
Sorry for the late reply. Kitty Diva needed my attention.
When I feel like it I might try to find the link.
:>)
Debrah
OK, here it is:
Scruton
Debrah
7:46
What are you talking about? Is KC on the History Channel? When?
thanks Debrah
btw, Inman, are you any kin to Bobby Inman, former director of the CI of A?
That scruffy, granola-fed McSurely is a righteous dude 'til the end. Even when the end is nowhere close to where he planted his own hind end.....he will still fight for "civil rights".
Lawyer_for_the_People
Debrah
If I recall correctly, Inman sported a pipe even back in undergrad days. Did make him appear a little more serious and mature. Not that it was much of a chick magnet for him though...
D White
Suspenders are definitely a chick magnet.
Polanski 6:21 said...
...You are so right. "Grade retaliation" is what--precisely? It's 1) libel; 2) grand larceny, and 3) academic fraud.
::
I thought grade retaliation is hostile environment workplace harassment.
If the harassment involves collusion with other internal or external groups/persons, it is my understanding that we are talking about Racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organization (RICO) charges.
I find that people have difficulty talking about grade retaliation for the lacrosse student because people just can't get their mind around the fact that a teacher would harm a student at a prestigious American university.
::
GP
9:31 Gary Packwood wrote:
I find that people have difficulty talking about grade retaliation for the lacrosse student because people just can't get their mind around the fact that a teacher would harm a student at a prestigious American university.
::
GP
You hit the nail on the head here. Its this dynamic, professors railing against their students with the intent to harm, that's mind-blowing.
We should honor the one who admitted he was wrong and rescinded his endorsement. The others still seem to be in an evil place.
Rod at !!:15
How about John Edwards? Sounds like his kind of case. He's well known in the Chapel Hill area for that kind of case (with a healthy percentage coming his way and then going to his off-shore bank accounts--known as tax loophole). She probably found him after she crossed I-40 for her second evaluation.
I always did think the story was a means of getting a little hush money out of the rich guys in exchange with not crying rape. Unfortunately for her, she picked three guys with scruples. Maybe not the best judgment on party night, but still with moral values.
Can't blame a girl for tryin', can ya?
AF
Ok...to set the record straight...
(1) I am not related to Bobby Inman who headed the CIA....at least by a lineal relation. He may be collateal kin.
(2) Yes, D White. On more that one occassion...well, since we have a new sense of honesty ... on at least several thousand occasions ... I smoked a pipe. Unfortunately, modern pharmaceuticals are evidently so much better. I'm sure that the notion of Bubba being on the sixth floor was, more than once, acknowledged with some glee.
(3) Duke women, when I was there, didn't like younger men and certainly shied away from the Frosh and Sophomoric varieties. Heck, my first experience with a Duke woman (day one of orientation) was by introduction...she and her friend thought I was totally unacceptable and such a dweeb. She is now a member of Congress. I can't wait for the day that I get to recall that story in her presence.
If you want to put pressure on the BOT, why not begin a steady letter to the editor campaign at both the News and Observer and the Herald-Sun. Most BOT members have access to one or the other or both. And, at the very least the Klan 88 will read (if they can as opposed to Mikey who just didn't take the time).
Duke Alums need to send enough letters to the editors that these two papers don't have space to put the outside (garbage) editorials.
Anybody wanna bet on how many the two papers will print per day?
Let the editorial writing begin.
Is Barber a Communist?
The two papers will print on average -- zero -- per day. And although the BOT has access to these "news" and opinion sources, it is highly unlikely that any of them depend upon them for news or even opinion.
Writing editorial opinion letters to these organizations would be like ...well...shooting blanks.
Sorry. Right motive, wrong idea.
And who is the intellectual giant who wants to know if Barber is a communist? Geez. How irrelevant.
Can someone explain to my why the names and reputations of good and decent people can so easily be besmirched by groups or individuals with agendas that in no way match the philosophies of the people who are supposed to be honored? From everything stated by those who Knew Bill Griffin, he was a fine, upstanding, moral man. His name was railroaded to make a racial/feminist point.
Same can be said for Dr. Martin Luther King. How would he feel knowing that his civil rights movement had been highjacked by the likes of the Three Stooges------Curly (Barber), Larry (ole Jesse himself), and Moe (Al the Pal Sharpton). Would he be upset? To coin a Curly answer, Sointlee!
At least Jesse did offer to pay for CGM's education. I guess the offer still stands. Rather than blaming the LAX players as the only ones with a moral lapse, something should be said about a woman with small children who feels the need to strip in front of a group of guys for money. Makes her a Moral Model, huh?
Will the day ever come when we look at the content of one's character? Ask the Stooges--they only view things as right or white!
To the 2.18:
I have never described the Group of 88 as "liberal." Indeed, the ideology that they've demonstrated over the past 16 months is well to the left of liberalism as it is commonly understood in US politics.
As to the players' current performance in the classroom--as several players noted in the summer 2006 Chronicle article, team members looked closely at the Group of 88 statement, and most refrained from taking courses from any Group members thereafter.
Since it's late in the evening and KC is about to begin a new thread, I want to leave this little tune here for your listening pleasure.
It serves two purposes.
First, I simply love this tune. The melodic spine of the song is beautiful and it's great for dancing. This is the kind of music that some of my friends and I used to dance to until 4 AM at a quaint little place in Philadelphia called The Library...a mixture of books and really hot music. Those were the days!
This tune has a lot of MJ influences in it--before MJ turned into a nutcase and an alleged child molester.
Last summer this came on in the car when I was driving down a busy street. I liked it so much that I was moving about at the wheel and singing....not noticing that a guy next to me at the stoplight was watching. It was so hilarious, but I wasn't too embarassed.
Second, again...the song is quite good, but the artist kills it with this video. What could become a strong number on Billboard is relegated to gutter rap mode because of the way it has been interpreted.
Much like the Gritty influences of grown adults like Gang 88 Mark Anthony Neal...as he states in his lecture hall that he is going to intellectually ***** the **** out of everyone.
The young kids are listening and seeing this crapola all the time. What could be an artistic adventure becomes mired in this raw interpretation. No wonder so many kids think 24/7 sex is quite OK.
This bad video reminded me of people like Thug Neal who bastardize their surroundings with the grit and the atrophy of self-indulgence.
Still, this could have been a great song with the right interpretation:
Ne-Yo
Debrah
10:36
That is a very good idea that might just work if enough people commit to doing it.
Debrah...
With all due respect,...
Is it the rhythm / blues / pseudo-rap style that you like? Or the well orchestrated sound mixing and modification?
Sorry, although melodic and enticing, this song won't have longevity.
This song is no equal to any single song on "Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band." Now that was music. That was a work of art.
But...then again...you must be much younger than me.
And prettier.
To "inman" (11:33PM)
Ha! I can understand your pov; however, I like all kinds of music.
I studied classical music, but when I learned to play guitar at 14, went crazy over the Carly Simon/James Taylor/Joni Mitchell thing.
In another life, I was to be a professional singer. LIS!
This kind of music is good for dancing. I love dance and there is simply no better music for that than all forms of black music. The kids at school used to tell me I had "a cat in my family"...meaning that I most likely had some black blood from the way I dance. Curious, that.
I understand what you're saying, but man was not meant to live by Beatles, alone.
LOL!
Debrah
Debrah...
I too appreciate all kinds of music. But, some more than others. I played trumpet and was assistant first in the Duke University orchestra the day I matriculated. I quit the orchestra after the first performance because I could not afford the requisite attire. As an 18 year old child, I was embarrassed to admit that I could not afford a tuxedo. (Identity issues and lack of confidence.)
But I moved on to jazz. Also, while at Duke, I taught myself guitar, ... that's when I began to understand music theory. I also learned that an acoustic guitar is a wonderful therapy.
I was using the Beatles as a metaphor for really superb music. Not dis'n no one, no how.
Wink.
To "inman"--
Great musical résumé.
You have had an interesting history and seem to be more instrument oriented. Vocals are more my game.
And yes, those youthful issues were often like a meatgrinder. :>)
(BTW, for the oldies, I think Stairway to Heaven has to rank somewhere on top as well.
Debrah
We Americans invented rock'n'roll, but the Brits perfected it.
RRH
Debrah said,
I studied classical music, but when I learned to play guitar at 14, went crazy over the Carly Simon/James Taylor/Joni Mitchell thing.
I think "Stairway to Heaven" has to rank somewhere on top as well.
As a result, I can guess her age almost to the month. :)
RRH
"There's a lady whose sure that all that glitters is gold...."
...I remember the circumstances and company when I first heard what many would argue is one of the most beautiful songs of the modern era.
Poetry and lyrical perfection in conjuction with brilliant musical composition.
"...and she's buying a stairway to heaven."
Inman,
"Revolver" was the Beatles' masterpiece, and Ringo's drumming on "Tomorrow Never Knows" was awesome.
Polanski
To rrhamilton--
Oh, really?
You do want to keep those teeth in your head, don't you?
(Think next-to-last episode of The Sopranos)
GIS!
Debrah
God...
I love people who have a mind.
What ya saying, innie?
Debrah: mum's the word. RRH
The G88 radical?
Can kindergarteners be radical?
I have an open mind.
Polanski
"I also learned that an acoustic guitar is a wonderful therapy."
Yeah, Mikey sure has learned that, too!
"We should honor the one who admitted he was wrong and rescinded his endorsement. The others still seem to be in an evil place."
You mean Arlie Petters? Yes, I definitely have great respect for Mr. Petters. None of us can ever guarantee that we won't be misled by someone down a wrong road, as many were misled by Nifong's lies. The difference is between those who keep their eyes open to the possibility of their own error, and then can change their course when they see their error. Why do the 88 not realize this? What's so hard about saying "We thought Nifong was telling the truth; we didn't dream that he'd bring indictments against someone he couldn't even place at the scene; we thought we were getting the straight scoop and we weren't"? Instead, too many of them have joined the "something happened" crowd, incorrectly thinking that they look less idiotic handcuffing themselves to a sinking ship of error and going down with it than they would putting on a life jacket and starting the paddle back to reality.
10:08
Great way of expressing it. Keeping with the musical theme above, the Faculty88 remind me of those musicians on the Titanic who were standing on the deck playing as if nothing had changed as the ship was going down.
Some people can't see how stupid they look.
12:43 --
"Glad you took a shot at Barber, KC. Please tell me that you've come to your senses and you now realize that the prism through which blacks analyze all problems is black v. white. And please tell that you realize this about obama."
If you're serious then you have no moral standing whatsoever to talk about the lessons of the Hoax, because you've learned none of them. Your attempt to attribute one point of view to all blacks is, if anything, even more disgusting than the potbangers' belief that they could gain real insight into whether three students were guilty as charged by looking at the race of those students.
10:22
Don't be so naive. Not all of what that commenter said one can agree with, but we are in the place we're in because MOST ALL OF THE TIME "blacks analyze problems" in terms of black vs. white.
You need to wake up and stop apologizing for people who deserve no apology.
(10:15am)
Richard Brodhead is the man on the Titanic who was so cowardly that he wimped around and then sneaked into one of the lifeboats reserved to get the women off the ship.
Brodhead has behaved just that way. Cowardly.
"too many of them have joined the "something happened" crowd, incorrectly thinking that they look less idiotic handcuffing themselves to a sinking ship of error and going down with it than they would putting on a life jacket and starting the paddle back to reality."
You still don't get it. In terms of academic politics, they made the *right* decision. Look at the recent Griffith award - it's pretty clear that the university administration is still behind those who, while maybe wrong on the facts of a particular case, were still following the "higher truth." Their reading of the case was "false but accurate."
I'm worried about Petters - I fully expect him to suffer some form of academic/carreer retaliation for breaking the faith.
I was just listening to Bob Dylan's "Hurricane".
It was about a District Attorney who thought that the law was just a game. Evidently our Duke case is just another in a long line.
Liberty requires eternal vigilance.
10:22 wrote:
If you're serious then you have no moral standing whatsoever to talk about the lessons of the Hoax, because you've learned none of them. Your attempt to attribute one point of view to all blacks is, if anything, even more disgusting than the potbangers' belief that they could gain real insight into whether three students were guilty as charged by looking at the race of those students.
===
Way to go, 10:22! And I like 7:36's quote, "liberty requires eternal vigilance".
2:17
It would be a welcome thing if people of all races
would arrive at the same
conclusion as Mssrs. Williamson and Attorney General Cooper,
with regard to the innocence of
the accused students.
However, this is not the case: a few white and many black pontificators
still have the insane belief that "something happened."
Unfortunately, the majority of AA writers/editorialists appear to be
grasping desperately to hold on to that insane belief.
If you have a problem with that, perhaps you ought to write them -
including people like Leonard Pitts. Lots of others who are
similarly handicapped: morally handicapped.
Many of us have heaped coals of derision on people of all races
in this case, people who deserve scorn. If they happen to be black, it's
because we're following Martin Luther King's admonition to judge by the
content of the character.
Seems that in the lives and minds of the Hoax supporters,
there's no character to be found.
Perhaps that's because they live
in a moral vacuum.
1.rrhamilton, it is sad that you have supposedly done research on a subject(interracial rape) and have come up with zero real information because you are too idiotic to realise that antebellum and Jim Crow whites did not keep statistics of their own wrongdoing. If you had half a brain, you could simply look at American blacks past and present and realise that they were/are racially mixed compared with the populations in West Africa where their ancestors came from; the color and hair texture differences are very apparent to any thinking person. The color of African Americans did not change just in the last decades; the vast majority of the admixture occured in the antebellum time.
Real research into things like yearbooks of the older black universities( dating back to the 1860's) would show you that lighter skinned,racially mixed black people existed right after slavery and were the majority of students at those colleges. A research into slavery materials would show you that the categories of racial mixtures to descibe enslaved people of color were universally used and reflected their degree of white admixture. Terms like mulatto, quadroon, etc, indicated that the person was half white or a quarter white respectively. Many advertisements from that era show mulatto, quadroons, etc for sale; these were therefore not isolated categories at all and large numbers of people fit these descriptions. Booker T Washington was the product of such a relationship and borrowed money from his white father to found Tuskegee.
Was there any record kept of each individual episode? No, unless you count the family bibles where the slaves were listed before the livestock purchases. The state of Virginia did list that the vast majority of slaves in the state in the 1800 census were mulatto. DNA tests being done now also reveal that the majority of black males tested have Y chromosomes that come from a European ethnic group, which further comfirms the history you are trying to deny occured.
As the women involved were enslaved, they did not have a choice in these relationshipes and the majority of these relationships were coerced sex( a form of rape) or outright rape.
rrhamilton, you are using lack of contemporary statistics( which would have been the responsibility of the perpetuators to record) to pretend something did not occur when other types of evidence exist( mountains of it, like I listed above) that confirms that it did indeed take place, a mistake no real scholar or intelligent person would make.
I am a lightskinned black person myself and my family tradition says my father's people descend from an Irishman who had several children with one of my black ancestors. I have visited the farm of his white descendants(and my distant relatives) and seen her name in their family bible and I have had my DNA tested and my Y chromosome is from the British Isles ethnic group according to the test result which further confirms my family history is correct. I (and many other blacks like me: Vanessa Williams, Beyonce,etc; there are huge numbers of light skinned blacks that do not have recent white ancestors), are living proof that rape and forced interracial sex occured in slavery, rrhamilton. You need to stop denying it as you come off like a complete idiot.
2. Rev Barber's children are by the same woman, his wife of many years. The obesity you are mocking him for is not all his fault as he has a degenerative disease like muscular dystrophy and cannot exercise and can barely walk. He is actually a courageous and inspiring person who has not let his disablity stop him
3.to the person who said that the Naacp is folding. you couldn't be more off base. At their recent convention in Washington, they had more delegates that ever before and have added chapters. Their donations are up, too, after Hurricane Katrina. The Naacp's current focus is on disaster preparedness and planning and health care disparities and AIDS.
4.Debrah it is obvious to anyone reading this blog that you do not know a thing about the Bible. You are always posting you are surprised someone at the local newspaper does not let you write what you want or listen to you. There is a good reason as they know that KKK reasoning like yours turns off readers.
Post a Comment