Friday, December 22, 2006

Comparing Versions

Here's the New York Times, quoting what is almost certainly Linwood Wilson:
When she was interviewed on Thursday by an investigator from the district attorney’s office, the woman said she was penetrated from behind while she was bent over with her face toward the floor, but did not know with what, according to a person close to the investigation who would only speak on condition of anonymity.
Here's the accuser and Sgt. Mark Gottlieb on April 4, with the accuser describing the attack from Reade Seligmann:
Gottlieb: How did he assault you? Which one was he?

Accuser: He was the one that was standing in front of me . . . um . . . that made me perform oral sex on him.

Gottlieb: What else did he do?

Accuser: That was it.
Even accepting Nifong's latest version of events as 100 percent true, how, exactly, did Reade Seligmann commit a crime? Did he at some point slide underneath the accuser to perform the act that she alleged?

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

KC,

Is this intended as humor?

If not, you're reaching! Presumably the NYT's description applies to the vaginal penetration -- which is the part of the alleged episode relevant to the dismissed rape charges. We don't know what, if anything, the accuser is saying now about the alleged oral and anal assaults.

Anonymous said...

To 7:05. Thats the problem we never knew anything about what the accuser was saying, unfortunately neither did the fong. The accuser will crumble on cross, wonder which story she will pick on the 11th hour before trial. Nifong will be disbarred.

Orange Lazarus

Anonymous said...

Does anyone think Nifong will now face prosection and will be disbarred, disembowelled??

Maybe we should re-introduce Drawing, Hung and Quartering ....this would still be too good for the Fong!

Get ahead-Get a Guillotine

Anonymous said...

To 7:13. I agree the whole case is a joke. But unless KC was trying to be funny, this is a weak argument and doesn't help. The case is so pathetic that we don't need to reach.

Anonymous said...

I'm no lawyer but I simply can't imagine this actually getting to trial.

I just hope the 3 Dukies don't end up even having to plead to a misdemeanor to stop the case from going to trial.

If Nifong offers them a misdemeanor and all they have to do is plead "no contest" it would be hard to turn that deal down. They then have no record other than a misdemeanor where they didn't even have to plead guilty.

If they do that then Nifong escapes. He can claim a conviction and avoid follow up civil suits.

bill anderson said...

Just unbelievable. The NY Times truly will be a laughing stock. Between the Times and Herald-Sun, there is no credibility.

They are trying to say it makes the case "stronger"? Right.

Anonymous said...

Again, I assume the whole interview is discoverable, and it should be very interesting. I don't know exactly how rape is defined in North Carolina, but I don't believe it usually has to be vaginal.

John Bruce

Anonymous said...

In NC, rape=vaginal penetration by the penis. Everything else is sexual offense.

theman said...

Hey I told you all that you don't need DNA to prove kidnapping.

Anonymous said...

trolls are out in force.

Anonymous said...

To 7:26, lets hope that the defendents do not plead to anything - not even one small misdemeanor. I truly hope that they see this travesty to the end and fong is held accountable for his actions.

I also hope that if this case is to continue and if they are to get any semblence of a fair trial, the defendents will be granted a change of venue. Maybe precious will go to ground and give the fong an excuse to drop the remaining charges. I can't see how this will still go to trial.

Orange Lazarus

Anonymous said...

The NYT is useful only insofar as it is used to spread Nifong's latest concoction. If the "source" is to be believed, dropping the charges is merely an effort to evade any testimony from the DNA witness who was eviscerated last week. Nifong has NOT let go of his main theory that Precious was viciousaly assaulted. We are witnessing a dance from Nifong designed for him to keep his license and evade civil liability.

There is no way Nifong will let Precious take the stand. First, she will be eviscerated worse than the DNA witness. Second, Lord only knows what Nifong has been saying and doing to her the last nine months. Her pattern over hte last ten years is to make outlandish felony accusations, and then withdrawing them. There isa reason for that, and Nifong is at the center of it.

Anonymous said...

He saids she was force to give oral sex and spit out ejectulation.

DNA not found, she still is caught lying.

Anonymous said...

greta ripping Nifong

Kemper said...

KC,
You looked GREAT on NATIONAL TV, ABC!

When this is all over your Duke friends are going to give you one hell of a party. I am hoping to publish the book. Email me, I happen to own a publishing company too!!
Kemp

Kemper said...

Too the trolls and all others, the Boys will NOT plead to one DAMN thing, even disorderly conduct. Remember, Nifungu has to get this case TOTALLY gone before Jan 16th, when the NC Bar Disciplinary committee will meet to charge Nifungu with misconduct.

It is time for Brodhead to readmit Reade and Colin to Duke. That is what we should be fighting for RIGHT now.

Merry Christmas,

Mikey welcome to Butner (fed prison 30 miles from Durham), you want to be the husband or the wife tonight??

Anonymous said...

The problem for the families is this. Even with a change of venue, even with the judge ordering the ID stuff to be tossed and "precious" not allowed to point out her perps, there is STILL a chance, very small, that the boys could be convicted. So if the 'fong, at the 11th hour (Feb. 5th 9:58 a.m.) offers the defense team a misdemeanor conviction only ( simple assault)and all the boys have to plea is "no-contest" then the boys HAVE to take the deal. No criminal defense team would want to risk going to trial if they could simply plead to a misdemeanor instead of possibly getting a felony conviction with a 25 year sentence.

If it was my 21 year old son I'd certainly urge him to take the deal. Court is, after all, a crapshoot.

Nifong could spin it as a "win" for him though he'll never actually live this down; not with the uniqueness of his last name. Black Durham would sigh that once again "the man" robbed them of justice but then they'd keep re-electing the 'fong, who fought so gallantly for racial justice, until the day he dies.

Courts = compromise! and I'm no lawyer.

Don said...

Versions shmerzions.
He did not drop the other charges solely because as soon as he does civil suits will be filed against him and the municipality and he will be only steps from a criminal prosecution.

Anonymous said...

anyone know who's paying for precious's hideout?

anyone care that no one is discussing prosecuting precious?

Jason T, u've gotta get Brodhead to address the black mafia problem at duke

jc

Anonymous said...

Reade, Collin and Dave will never plead this out--that would be like admitting some kind of guilt, and Nifong wins, and NC Bar would probably not do anything to him. They have no reason to plea.

Anonymous said...

So... if it goes to court now... is there a basis for a BOP?

It would seem that at some point Nifong would have to stop spinning and nail down exactly what it is that he's prosecuting these young men for...

2, 3, or 5 attackers, blue or green bathroom, rape or no rape, how in the hell can the defense be expected to prepare or an ever changing accusation?

Someone that attended last Friday's hearing was absolutely amazed at how straight forward the defense attorneys were and how Meehan and Nifong lied, squirmed, and tried to avoid answering the questions....

Off to jail for Nifong, do not pass GO do not collect your DA's pension.

John said...

I wonder how quickly Nifong is going to hand over to the defense the entirety of her statement to Wilson? Inasmuch as she absolved the guys of committing rape it is clearly discoverable under Brady.

Don't hold your breath.

theman said...

I told you that dna is not necessary for sexual assault and kidnapping the are still rapists. who needs dna when we can have the victim lying on the stand

theman said...

I am going to get on the jury because I love to hear lies

Anonymous said...

Bad advice to suggest copping a plea to anything. There is no evidence that the three indicted guys did anything to Precious. Nifong, Precious and their enablers in the media and on the Duke faculty must be held accountable.

theman said...

the players are going to plead to counterfeiting and overage dringking

Anonymous said...

JC,
When it finally sinks in just how thoroughly false the accuser's charges have been and the MSM achnowledges that---if they ever do, then I think people will talk about charges against the accuser. Of course, Mr. Nifong would have to be replaced before any charges could be brought against her. Also, she may get a lot of sympathy because people may blame her mental illness, her drug habits, Mr. Nifong, her economic situation, anything and anyone but her for this outrageous behavior. Can we also acknowledge that Mr. Nifong deserves much of the blame. He is supposed to protect the public from people like her, and he could NOT have done more to manipulate her and her baseless accusations for his own benefit.

Ob

Anonymous said...

Quote/"Even with a change of venue, even with the judge ordering the ID stuff to be tossed and "precious" not allowed to point out her perps, there is STILL a chance, very small, that the boys could be convicted."Quote

If the photo line-up identification is thrown out and the accuser is barred from making an in-court identification, there is nothing left of the prosecutor's case. In that scenario there is not even a chance of conviction as the prosecutor would not be able to present any evidence of the defendant's involvement. Without an identification, the case is dismissed by the judge before the jury gets it.

bill anderson said...

The case will not go to trial, believe me. No matter how much spin we get from Nifong and his enablers at the NY Times, this case centered around rape charges.

Without them, the rest of it falls apart, no matter what thenstupidman, Injustice58, Victoria Peterson, and Duff Wilson tell us.

Anonymous said...

thanks O

jc

Anonymous said...

Let me ad a prediction that may already be captured in other posts (or elsewhere). Right now, Nifong looks bad, and the accused look good. But that pendelum will swing once again when Nifong assembles witnesses (including neighbors close to the party that night) and evidence (including emails by lacrosse players about the party that night) in the opening stages of trial. He will make these young men and their friends look absolutely wretched.

This is not a commentary on the accused or the merits of the case -- just a prediction. It will happen, and public opinion will again shift. If the scales don't tip now (and the charges are all dropped), we may be seeing the high point of the defense public relations campaign until the defense begins to put on its case halfway through the trial.

Anonymous said...

fuck off, 10:34

u stupid or what?

Kemper said...

10:34
You obviously are on crack. Explain to all of us how you are going to get Reade back from the ATM to screw Crystal, this isn't star track, you can't be in two places at one time. Take another drag on your crack pipe and get some DNA from 5 males you don't know, it will make you happy for sure. Oh, whom did you get to type your post, clearly someone as STUPID as you are can not type. Just say no trolls, sorry to snap.

Anonymous said...

JC,
You just got your wish. I hope you saw Jeanine Pirro do a fabulous job on Greta just now pointing out how some attention should be paid to the false allegations of the accuser and possible charges filed against her. Even Ted and Bernie sound reasonable tonight. Mr. Nifong has NO defenders. The entire panel of seven or so want him booted. Someone should be keeping an eye on Mr. Nifong. He is the subject of a well justified public flogging, and he cannot be comfortable right now.

Ob

Anonymous said...

testicle therapy is a good start

thanks for the info, O

jc

Anonymous said...

Juan William writes a book about AA not being good role models and other AA issues.

Juan then called an Uncle Tom, etc.

On Greta tonight complete 180 and now has a go at the white boys.

Is he sucking up to curry flavor again with the AA cesspool in Durham and around the country, damage control?

Anonymous said...

To 10:34 pm poster - Maybe you should have been watching FOX News and Cousin Jakki instead of wasting your time explaining how public opinion will shift. Nifong is history!!! Maybe the case will go forward but not with the Fong.

His butt is in major hot water following the statements of Jakki and Greta. Twice the AV has requested that charges be dropped and the Fong refused?!? Are you kidding me. He's toast - burned toast.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.........

Anonymous said...

Chicago writes:

11:18pm, I missed it. Was Jakki on again? What did she say?

Anonymous said...

Crystal Gail Mangum is the accuser, for all that don't know that by now

Anonymous said...

"Teddy Ballgame", Greta's token empathiser has finally come to grips with the fact that the 'fong is a douche. Tonight he stated that the 'fonger used the AA community for personal gain and it's appalling...d'oh

Anonymous said...

A while back I predicted that the AA community at some point would throw Nifong under the wheels of the bus. Listening to cousin Jakki tonight I think the time will not be much longer. Now I think they're going to stop the bus and then back it up over him two or three times.

Anonymous said...

Based on the NYT hours long interview with Nifong yesterday, he plans to make the false accuser go forward. She is probably so scared. He wants her to be held responsible for this going on this long. He sees it as his way out.
The NYT accepted Nifong's claim that he never tried to keep the exculpatory DNA info. away from the defense. I recall he:

1. Asked the court to order the defense to pay for the copying of the data.
2. Challenged the defense request for the data stating that there was nothing in it and they were going on a witch-hunt.

He also refused to say if the State Bar had contacted him. Sounds like they have. About time. he keeps squirming to get out and will use the false accuser until the bitter end. I think he is subetly threatening her with charges if she doesn't stick with him.
Favorite quote from Nifong in the NYT article, "What is a line up?"

Anonymous said...

AA community wanted blood--Nifong complied

they b both giltah

Anonymous said...

If she couldn't see what or who was behind her doing what she says they did, does this mean a new line-up would include the black lacrosse player?

Anonymous said...

Crystal will never show.

Anonymous said...

dose honkies have dem smallpeckawoods

my adorable preshous did not feel nothin

she got a big pussah, ass--but mosta all she gots a big mouth

like the ralf kramdan

Proud Black Grandmother