In last Friday’s court session, Dr. Brian Meehan admitted that he and Mike Nifong entered into an agreement to intentionally exclude from his report any mention that
Meehan also conceded that the decision reached by Nifong and him violated his company’s protocols. It also ran counter to the Supreme Court’s Brady decision and
Despite this revelation, there has been no sign that the North Carolina State Bar has abandoned its passive approach regarding Nifong’s misconduct. Meehan, however, might face a different fate.
His lab is accredited by the American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors/Laboratory Accreditation Board (ASCLD/
As the accrediting body for the laboratory in question, ASCLD/
LABwill conduct a review of the issue in question. ASCLD/ LABis aware of the ongoing legal process and will take that into consideration in determining the appropriate time to review the circumstances.
Mike Nifong is a bit like the poisonous tree—those who come into contact with him suffer unfortunate fates. The Group of 88 is an academic laughingstock. The New York Times’ coverage of the case has been widely dismissed. And now Dr. Meehan will have his credentials reviewed.
And yet Nifong continues to lurch forward.
What would be an 'appropriate time' to investigate Meehan? One could interpret the response you received as 'now' or 'after the proceedings are over', ie, the State Bar's preferred time to investigate.
The Bar is a joke as is the medical board etc. NC had a major problem with the medical board which the N&O covered extensively - with no action by the legislature.
The 'problem' with the Bar (or any other such board that obtains its power from the state) is that an interested few will lobby for a board that favors practioners over those who suffer at their hands. It is a kind of rent seeking and is frustrating...although I doubt the Duke case will prompt any reform (open discovery laws were enacted after two prosecutors conspired to exclude evidence that a murdered man was alive at the only time the defendent could have done anything - and the Bar did nothing as the appeals panel reversed a decision against the prosecutors twice).
Lab investigations are not like bar complaints, where nothing happens.
An investigation of Meehan's lab will almost certainly involve onsite inspection of records and procedures.
It will not be fun.
As posted at this site and others, DNA Security is essentially already finished as a forensics lab for the purposes of court cases.
That field is all about reputation and (to be charitable) let's just say Brian Meehan doesn't have one.
I posted this today below the Sunday Hearing Round Up but it's so far down no one likely will read it so I'm reposting part of it here regarding Meehan and Friday's hearing:
The drama of Friday's hearing was well captured by this poster on the FreeRepublic site:
As a practicing trial lawyer (civil, not criminal) I found two things remarkable about this. First, the defense lawyers's skill in cross examining Meehan when it was apparently a bit of a surprise Nifong brought him. (Maybe Judge Smith told Nifong to bring him, but I haven't seen a good report of that.)
The second remarkable thing was how well attuned most of the audience was to what defense lawyers were trying to prove: that Nifong embarked on a conscious effort to hide the "multiple males" lab results and conspired with Meehan to hide or at least delay the release of the information. So when the great question was asked about whether the concealment was an agreement between Nifong and Meehan and Meehan affirmed that it was, everybody there knew the proof was made. There was applause and he judge had to call for order. It appears everyone there knew Nifong was nailed.
But of course, this was only a battle and the war continues.
Nifong really is a legal form of Typhoid Mary. Yet, as I look at it, I don't think that Brian Meehan is a malevolent character like Nifong. Yet, he is going to pay such a heavy price.
I really greive at the wreckage that Nifong has left behind him. There are other circumstances of my life that recently have occurred that have given me great pause at what people do to others. In the end, that is what is so heartbreaking. None of this was necessary. None of it.
I am forever thankful that there is a North Carolina. Making us in Louisiana look GOOOOD!!
Nifong is a bit like a Kamakazi (sp?), he is committing suicide but he wants to see how many people he can take with him and how far he can push the envelope before he dies.
Lawyers protect their own. Other than the August Esquires serving as officers of the law, most mere citizens can expect fairly quick action from accrediting and regulating agencies if they really step in it.
Nifong is accorded the treatment "members of the Club" can expect.
That is why Meehan is about to be shut down within days of his admission of violating accrediting rules.
Why investigators looking at this would do well to drive right past Nifong and all his protections under law and clubhouse members "having his back" and go straight for the cops.
They don't have buddy judges and Bar officials looking to minimize or sweep Nifongs's mess under the rug. He has dirt on them, too.
No, Gottlieb and Himan are vulnerable under the Federal Police Misconduct Statute that applies to state and local police officers that abuse power under "cover of law". Not only does the statute cover intentional false arrest, evidence tampering, manufactured evidence, witness intimidation, and perjured testimony...it covers the violation civil rights of any citizen in conspiracy with other officials.
It's not just criminal and civil penalties..for Gottlieb, he could lose the pension coming to him for decades of police work.
So any investigation team, be it State of North Carolina, or Federal, would be wise to 1st go with the people that lack the protections lawyers have from prosecution. They are much more vulnerable, and much more likely to seek to save pensions and businesses on top of the penalties Nifong likely can skate past.
In other words, convince the two cops as deep into this as Nifong not to be his fall guys and be clear on who ordered who to do what to "get" the Duke guys. And convince Meehan to waive his 5th in return for amnesty and professional survival for detailing his conspiracy with Himan, Gottlieb, and Nifong to exclude exculpatory evidence from the defense.
If you can get Himan, Gottlieb to turn, detail a conspiracy, THEN the Feds or State can go after Nifong and the Bar and the "Lawyers Club" can't save his ass.
"And yet Nifong continues to lurch forward."
Hopefully lurching further into the noose he wrapped around his own neck.
"If you can get Himan, Gottlieb to turn, detail a conspiracy, THEN the Feds or State can go after Nifong and the Bar and the "Lawyers Club" can't save his ass. "
-This is what I've been thinking too - their nuts are in the vice - its time (NOW) to start squeezing.
Cedarford lays out the likely scenario. No one, no one, is going to take a hit for Mikey. I think he had the people of Durham convinced that since they could be the law in that county, and since the NC Bar was not going to do anything to him, that they could do what they wanted.
Nifong, I suspect, has believed he could get a conviction in Durham by stirring up the blacks and white leftists, and by the time the convictions were overturned, the three young men would have served several years in prison.
Furthermore, I suspect that Nifong has believed that while in prison, Reade, Collin, and Dave might receive some "prison justice" and possibily not even survive their brief incarceration. It would be interesting to know if he had such conversations with police or others.
I can only hope that if a law enforcement agency jumps in, that the investigators are more ruthless and more competent than what we have seen in Durham, where we have ruthlessness mixed with incompetence.
I'm more optimistic than most here about Nifong's coming encounter with the NC Bar's disciplinary committee. I know this Bar's sordid history when it comes to dealing with rogue prosecutors. I also know that this Bar has been deeply embarrassed by the public's perception of its past actions. The NC Bar knows that it will not have many more chances to get it right before NC lawmakers (responding to an outraged public) decide to do it for them. (And there is nothing that a Bar fears more than losing the ability to discipline its own members). I predict that the NC Bar will decide to make an example of Nifong. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
Lawyers punish Nifong? Why would they? Look what Christmas present just landed in the laps of lawyers: Imagine your client's DNA was found smeared all over a victim. Now all you have to do is drag Meehan into court to testify that DNA labs conspire with DAs to fake evidence.
Bingo. A 'get out of jail free' card for criminals.
Yet again, the liberals and lawyers make us less safe...
Why can't the NC Bar or the Feds question Judge Stephens on what transpired at the Grand Jury proceedings?
Members of the Bar are all officers of the Court. As such when they observe another member of the Bar violating NC and US Constitutional law we would assume they would bring this to the attention of the Bar grievance committee and the presiding judge for immediate action. Sort like a student at a service academy must turn in a peer observed cheating. Of course the public thinks the Bar handles serious matters like this in real time before further harm is done. Echoing Cedarford's comments the Bar is more concerned with protecting members from the public rather than the other way around.
If Meehan loses his accredation doesn't that mean he can't testify as an expert witness?
And if he had the evidence in his sole custody isn't the chain of custody broken?
I found it chilling to read your words about Nifong's intentions with regard to the conviction of these young men at the hands of the jurists in Durham. To think that anyone would prosecute innocent guys who are just a few years older than that person's own son, and assume that it was quite possible that they could be killed in prison is so beyond my comprehension. And yet, it seems as though Nifong has been more than willing to sacrifice their very lives for his own political gain--a truly evil man. It must have been so incredibly painful for the families and friends of Reade, Collin and David to sit in that courtroom and not be able to scream out all of their feelings at this hateful man. They are all very courageous and I'm sure Friday's hearing gave them much hope.
If the Bar in NC is anything like it is here in Oregon, it basically has to wait until the proceedings are more or less over before it can proceed against Nifong. It may already be informally gathering evidence, but it would probably be a lot easier to wait until the players are cleared. Same with a civil wrongful institution claim against Nifong - an element of that is a termination of the prior proceeding in favor of the plaintiff. I would love to take that case.
Question for a lawyer. Is there any possiblility that Nifong would attempt to have Meehan's test results tossed out? I know this would do more harm to him, but how much more? If he accomplishes this, then the defense can't use the 5 to 7 of the other mens DNA, found on the AV or her clothes.
Thanks Bill. While most of the speculation has centered around Nifong, and how the NC Bar and judge cronies will cover his ass up to a point - his two cops that were with him every step of the way are wide open under the Federal Police Misconduct Statute, and they are the path to Nifong being held to account.
Rather than speculate on how Nifong can be brought to account - speculation should center on how his 2 cop flunkies involved in every meaningful incident from Day 2 can be investigated. That Fed statute was erected because it was recognized that a dysfunctional police department is not "regulated" by the State like lawyers supposedly are, thus best left for "state and local processes" are preferred to be gone through 1st. And the law was put in place after numerous civil rights and obstruction of justice cases by police went uncorrected by State officials necessitated a Federal law dealing directly from the outset with complaints concerning wayward cops and constitutional rights violations.
There is no basis in that law to suggest people have to go through the police union, community boards 1st before they go Federal.
This appears to be part of the direction the defense lawyers are headed, as people like Bill Anderson & KC Johnson have likely heard from others - filings mentioning not just Nifong's misconduct, but Gottlieb and Himan acting "under color of law" and using other phrases right out of the Police Misconduct Statute.
Which of course I muffed in my 1st post as "Cover of Law"...when it is actually "Color of Law"...basically meaning persons granted the responsibility for faithfully using their immense state-granted powers in an abusive manner or for personal gain, in this context.
I think Himan and Gottliebs hind sphincters are beginning to pucker about now as they watched Nifong deliver Meehan's head on a platter for the defense sharks to feed on. Especially Gottlieb - who is involved in an assault incident since the Duke case started, is widely disliked by Duke police, had central roles in entering dorms without warrant, intimidation of witnesses, and concocted ID notes possibly used in grand jury proceedings.
I wish I were exaggerating. Prison is a netherworld that few people understand, or want to understand. Now, given the publicity this case has brought, the NC authorities would be under tremendous pressure to keep the young men safe if ever they were convicted and incarcerated.
However, I doubt Nifong even understood that part about having to protect them. Remember, he met with the New Black Panthers to give them information about the case, and the NBPs were openly giving death threats. This is something else of which people have not really spoken. Meeting with an organization that openly threatens to kill the three young men is another strike against Nifong. It hardly is a jump in logic for Nifong to be wanting to have them set up for assault or even murder. If he was willing to meet with the organization and de facto endorse what they were doing, then why would Nifong not want to have them killed? I don't think I am being illogical here.
I can only hope the people in authority are willing to put a stop to what Nifong is doing. We shall see, I guess.
It certainly is fun to bash lawyers and liberals, but at least in my state the bar does take its role in protecting the public seriously. The motivation for it is that the more distrust among the public there is in the legal system and in lawyers, the worse it is for practicing lawyers and the legal profession. So, the bar can be seen as self-serving but just to protect "the franchise", not to protect individual lawyers. Every month's issue of my state bar's newsletter or magazine has disciplinary actions against lawyers reported, from reprimands to suspensions to disbarments.
Since the defendants have advocates for their position, any agency outside the adversaries will be reluctant to jump in while the case is still ongoing. Among the reasons would be avoiding the appearance of being influenced by political or moneied interests.
The lab deserves everything it gets, but how does it help the defense to cast the lab's work in such poor light when the results of its tests fully clear the three players of this supposed crime?
If Meehan in effect becomes a star witness for the defense, can't the DA at trial point out that the lab's work was found to be so shoddy that no one should trust anything Meehan has to say?
I know that's more than ironic, but there it is.
"If he was willing to meet with the organization and de facto endorse what they were doing..."
I've even wondered if the incident in which gang members invaded a courtroom, after which Nifong said he had no resources to protect witnesses, wasn't a set-up designed to send a message to witnesses everywhere in Durham, in every case, including this one.
Duke09parent, are you kidding about, because of political or monied reasons? This whole thing started for political and monied reasons. Nifong had $30,000 of his own money invested in his campaign and he needed to win the election, to keep his job. Jumping in now would not be political as most people view this case, besides another ADA could take over the case and pursue it if he or she wanted too. Even the USDOJ may jump in for civil rights violations, that is even more reason for the NC Bar to jump in. I don't think the NC Bar would want a bunch of feds investigating NC attorney's.
Thanks KC !
"ASCLD/LAB is aware of the ongoing legal process and will take that into consideration in determining the appropriate time to review the circumstances"
What does the "ongoing legal process" (Duke case I assume) have to do with allowing a corrupt lab to continue serving others? This smells like an excuse to me.
If Smith directed Mikey to have Meehan at the hearing, there needs to be an Order on record that all attorneys involved was made aware of. If there wasn't such, either Smith is a problem or NC trial procedures are a problem.
Does anyone here know if a judge in NC can order a witness without an Order on record?
to 3:44 post, my speculation, that if Nifong got the Meehan's lab results tossed out, then the defense can't use 5 to 7 male samples, but Nifong looks like a fool again, for spending all that money and then removing his own witness. In or out, I think it is a win win for the defense.
I was very disturbed by the post you made regarding Nifong's questionable indictment on an age old murder charge and seeking the death penalty. Do you have a link to the story about that or can you fill us in please. Thanks for such great dcoverage Bill, KC and you are an amazing team.
duke09parent - glad you liked the post
As an additional observation, Bannon, who did most of the direct questioning, is this skinny young guy who, if he were to mow his lawn in jeans and a T-shirt, could be mistaken for a high schooler earning some cash on the side. But he's got it where it counts - between the ears.
I've not much been accused of having "delicate sensibilities", in fact usually just the opposite, but after about an hour of that testimony it struck me as creepy in the extreme to have all these lawyers in suits, expecially one as young as Bannon, in a courtroom, in front of a judge, in front of a room full of people, discussing the nasty stuff that was found in a womans's panties, rectum and vagina (while I was standing six feet behind her father).
I felt like I needed a shower after listening to that and let's just say that I didn't mind having to skip lunch that day.
What's the big deal y'all about DNA? If 5 peoples DNA is found and the female said no to the 5 one it is rape. Plus we have the kidnapping charge and we don't need DNA for that charge to stick.
Here's a start
"Plus we have the kidnapping charge and we don't need DNA for that charge to stick"
Kidnapping in NC can only be added as part of another felony; it does not stand alone. So if there was no rape, then the kidnaping charge goes down, too.
But you're right. The five have to be investigated, because if the female cried rape, then maybe it was one of those five?
If Nifong doesn't investigate to find out who they are, and find out if their contact with the AV was by consent or not, then he is not doing his duty.
This is directed to "The Man" and anyone else who is still trying to defend the false accuser.
If there was even a hint of evidence that the Duke 3 were guilty, this site may not exist and I doubt many of us would spend time here. However, there is NOT an ounce of evidence backing up these claims. I think EVERYONE here stands for justice and justice alone, regardless of race, class, etc. Please do not try to bait us into having us reveal some kind of hidden prejudice you think lies beneath, because it does not exist. We want justice and truth, and that is what is starting to leak out finally. With that said, I feel confident I can speak for everyone on this board and say that if a crime was committed, we would all support prosecution. However, it is beyond VERY OBVIOUS in this case that nothing happened.
cedarford, perhaps this is why Gottleib got pulled from the case. Maybe he had his doubts, about the AV's story and told Nifong. Nifong in turn doesn't want his lead investigator doubting him.
to the klanman
if you have someone ejaculate in your mouth, and Meehan tests it and does not find a single cell, then you can be taken seriously. Are you running a test tonight?
"If 5 peoples DNA is found and the female said no to the 5 one it is rape."
I couldn't have put any more succinctly than you. since those 5 don't include anyone from Duke or the lacrosse team, isn't about team DA Nifong runs down the true perps?
Guilty, guilty and guilty, that is what they are, do not pass go and don't collect the 200 bucks.
2:17pm Bill Anderson:
"No one, no one, is going to take a hit for Mikey."
But plenty of the rats will remain on the ship until the writing is writ large on the wall..
And I think we may have reached that point, as I posted on Friday, somewhere (geez, all these blogspots look the same!! lol :).
One of the most crucial aspects of Friday's festivities, imho, is that Meehan is an outsider to a degree. By that I mean that he owes no fraternal loyalty to either the police or the DA's office. Financial ties, sure, but that's all gone now.
The principals in LE - Nifong, Gottlieb, Hinman, et al - have to know this. Think of the ADAs in Hifong's office, who are in this up to their hips, or at least know whre the bodies are buried. All of them are wondering just what Meehan's going to say next to outside investigators, and they're trying to calcu;ate the right time to jump ship. Then there's the ADA who filed the sexual abuse charges on her way out the door - Ashely? ???. What is she going to say?
None of that crew would have broken the seal, it took an outsider to do that. But everyone knows that Nifong/Hinman/Gottlieb were in the same room w/ Meehan.
Meehan's got a lot more to say to the right people, and Hinman & the ADAs will be the next in line to try to save their skins & souls.
Gottlieb? - my gut tells me that he'll go down with the ship, not necessarily because of loyalty to Nifong, but because he strikes me as that kind of arrogant prick.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next bombshell comes from someone in the DAs office, someone we don't know or haven't thought of yet.
4:23, Nifong got the right guys, their just not in jail yet.
"the man" is obviously a troll who sat on the OJ jury
4:29 well said. I think that if the rats are offered a deal by the judge, in order to talk and not go to prison they might think about talking. It least I would hope they would.
If anyone reads the mans posts it sounds like he is speaking for the DA's office and the NBPP
I think daman is a white boy trying to sound black. It seems he does not know how to write a complete sentence or spell. No doubt, he would make a great Nifong juror.
To: gpreston at 429
from: a non-lawyer
Don't underestimate Nifong. He will find a way to shift the blame. Notice that he doesn't like to reply in writing to the defense attorneys. He also will be entitled to a presumption of innocence if there are criminal or civil proceedings against him.
Huh, it appears that there might have been more witnesses in the room than just Meehan/Nifong/Hinman/Gottlieb. Crystal Mess has the scoop:
Exhuming McCarthy (A New American Tragedy In Three Acts)
Something about four-assed monkeys. ;>)
Re: "Nifong got the right guys, their just not in jail yet."
Sorry, but your post makes no sense. "Their" is possessive so "their just" is meaningless. I think you meant "they're" which is a contraction for "they are". Please learn better spelling and grammar. It makes you look much less ignorant. Just trying to help you out. Cheers! ;-)
I doubt the NC Bar will do anything to Nifong. He's been buddies with most of them for years. The good old boys always take care of their own.
What they will do is delay. Claim a need to wait for rulings on arcane matters and when the case is over for a while and emotions aren't so high, drop everything or give Nifong a warning to be a good boy.
Nifong is innocent, he didn't rape anyone or kidnap anyone, what has he done other then his job. He is paid to put criminals in jail and that is what he is doing.
Nifong will wish he had lost the election and eaten the $30-grand.
If done correctly, he'll be broke before his final legal expense is paid.
Nifong Rejects Threats of Charges in Duke Case By Tamara Gibbs
(12/18/06 -- DURHAM) - New information in the Duke Lacrosse rape case. The U.S. Attorney General says his department is considering whether to investigate the Duke Lacrosse rape case.
Also on abc11tv.com:
Send us news tips | Desktop Alert | ABC11 AccuWeather | Pinpoint Traffic
North Carolina Congressman Walter Jones sent a letter to the Justice Department asking for a federal probe.
Eyewitness News has learned the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division is reviewing the letter.
On behalf of hundreds of Duke alumni, a group issued a statement Monday, not only endorsing Congressman Jones' call for a federal investigation, but also calling for criminal charges against Nifong.
Not since his campaign for district attorney has Mike Nifong faced such a firestorm of criticism. Adding to the flame, the admission by DNA Security's Director Brian Meehan, that he and Nifong agreed to withhold certain DNA test results to protect the privacy of Duke lacrosse players.
Some of those results showed DNA from several men had been found on the accuser. Defense attorney, Joe Cheshire explains, "It begs some very serious questions and I'll let you all ask the questions."
While the defense questions Nifong's motives, Eyewitness News has learned a letter from Congressman Walter Jones sent to the U.S. Attorney General is being reviewed by the department's Civil Right's Division.
There's no word on whether there will be a federal investigation, and no word from Nifong on the possible fallout. "I don't really want to comment on anything involving the case outside of courtroom," Nifong said.
Nifong did tell Eyewitness News that he believes he can fairly prosecute the Duke Lacrosse rape case, and while he prepares for the battle in the courtroom, there's a battle brewing on the outside.
Jason Trumpbour, with Friends of Duke, a grassroots organization comprised of Duke alumni told Eyewitness News that the group endorses Congressman Jones' request for a federal probe.
"This is hardly a witch hunt," Trumpbour explained. He said they're taking it a step further, calling for criminal charges against the Durham prosecutor. "These are willful violations of both the professional conduct and the actual application of a law. It's more than just a mistake," Trumpbour said.
Nifong did tell Eyewitness News that he wasn't concerned about Congressman Jones' complaint to the U.S. Justice Department.
The next pre-trial hearing in the case is set for February 5, 2007. The judge is expected to consider at least two defense motions calling for the photo lineup to be thrown out of court and a request to change the location of the trial.
Can locally-granted immunity in exchange for testimony get these guys of the federal hook?
Sorry, should have been off, not of
Is it true that the accuser has given birth? I read two different postings, one that said she is due in Feb and just now on Frontpage magazine, they are saying she has just given birth?
AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PERSECUTION
the following should be bitch-slapped--hard and wet:
(don't waste ur time with meehan)
--duke board of trustees
--the precious whore
END AFFIRMATIVE ACTION
y aren't the 2 in school? no one believes the whore's lies
BOYCOTT THE 88's CLASSES
GET RID OF BRODHEAD__HE's A F'N EMBARRASSMENT
HER NAME IS CRYSTAL GAIL MANGUM--QUOTIDIAN PREDATOR
WHY ISN'T SHE BEING INVESTIGATED BY A GRAND JURY?
THIS CASE IS NOT OVER WITH AN ACQUITTAL OR DISMISSAL
FRY THEM ALL
Re: "Nifong is innocent, he didn't rape anyone or kidnap anyone, what has he done other then his job. He is paid to put criminals in jail and that is what he is doing."
OK, your spelling is now alright but your grammar still needs a bit of work. Here's the correct version with corrections in "()"..
"Nifong is innocent(.) (H)e didn't rape anyone or kidnap anyone(.) (W)hat has he done other then his job(?) He is paid to put criminals in jail and that is what he is doing."
See how much better that works? With these changes you don't sound nearly so stupid. Next we'll work on your content which still indicates a significant lack of knowledge.
Cheer up. You're getting better.
Well I suppose we have to remember its, DURHAM.
Nifong and his cohorts seem to believe they are all immune from prosecution because Durham has always been a cesspool of unrest and done "IT" there own way.
It is now high time for a new Sheriff aka the "US Attorney General" to arrive in town soon.
Where are you Alberto???????
We need outside assistance to wipe that greasy "Smirk" from Nifongs face.
The man has tampered with evidence and is a criminal.
What amazes me ,is that he continues as if nothing happened on Friday!
Brodhead saids Da case also on trial
Sorry bad link
here it is
See 5.22 post.
What do you think of Nifong's statement to ABC11 today that he is "NOT at all concerned by a Federal inquiry"?
Since theman and his friends already have made a veiled threat to my family on another post, let me just say that I still think he is a white boy trying to be black. A wannabe.
5:30 -- No, state immunity does nothing to preclude federal prosecution.
LB- I found that your descriptions of people in the courtroom and where they were helped make it come alive for me. I've been in a lot of courtrooms, so it was easy for me to visualize. Is that the largest courtroom they have in the state courthouse? The 2/5 hearing will draw an even bigger crowd, if CGM doesn't withdraw from the fray by then.
Re Brodhead's statement about the DA's case also being on trial. I saw that on the outtakes from the 60 Minutes program and thought it was positive then. Repeating it now seems pretty feeble. Damn, I wish he would change his tune, for his sake as well as Duke's.
I was one of the "free Joan Little" crowd back in the mid-1970s, and while I believe that the State of North Carolina simply did not have the evidence by which she should have been convicted of murder (and she was acquitted), there still was more evidence against her than is against Reade, Collin, and David.
The most disappoint thing to me about this case -- besides the Gang of 88 at Duke -- has been the insistence of the black community in Durham that evidence does not matter. Now, has the NAACP ever argued that even though Darryl Hunt's DNA was not found on the body of Debra Sykes, that he STILL was guilty of rape and murder?
No, the NAACP said -- correctly, I must add -- that the lack of Hunt's DNA demonstrated proof that he did not commit that crime. Yet, the NAACP now is telling us that DNA does not matter. This is a serious situation, and the black community must remember that if it really wants to destroy the "no-DNA defense," that it will mean wrongful convictions of black males, who are more likely to be wrongfully identified.
Think about it; the black community of Durham WANTS more innocent black men in prison just so it can have a racially-motivated conviction. And when I mean the black community, I mean the mayor of Durham, the police chief, David Addison, the Durham Committee, the NAACP, and the black ministers. All have declared guilt, and have publicly declared that DNA does not and should not matter ONLY in this case.
I need to add that if a person with CGM's background were to accuse a black male of rape, the black community in Durham would be calling her a liar. So, it is nothing about her that gives her credibility with the blacks in Durham. They just want to see a wrongful conviction purely for racial reasons. They are no better than what we saw in the Deep South during the Jim Crow era.
Hear Hear Bill! Gotta love "theman" or should I say: got ta luv daman (in "theman" lingo using the same level of edumacation).
Don't listen to this pot-stirrer...just someone who is bored and should be home studying up for that big GED test.
Good fine posts Bill, theman is a buffoon in the first degree.
I enjoy and look forward to your thoughtful posts.
Please don't let anyone stop you.
We have to see this through and that Nifong is in irons very soon, pity we cannot see him in irons, inside the original"Pandora's" box!!!!
The penalty for this prosecutorial misconduct should be the maximum sentence for rape, times 3, served consecutively.
Even if Nifong could get Meehan's lab work thrown out of court it seems to me that the defense would be able to call Meehan as a witness to prove that he and fong conspired to falsify and decieve the defense and show involvement in criminal activity detrimental to the defendents ? Seems that would cause more damage to the fongs case. Any legal minds willing to clarify this point ? Additonally, I believe the defense had their own lab duplicate the results, so it seems that the defense could ask their expert to comment on both lab results ? Don't see how Meehan wil get out of testifying. Can the prosecutor be compelled to testify if the defense believes they can prove he conspired to commit a crime detrimental to the accused ? Lawyers - what say you ?
As a retired P/O I have always been curious as to why Gottlieb, got pulled off this case. Was he about to go talk to the AV again, to see what she had to say about Kim and her being pulled apart, by 3 men each. The inconsistencies in the AV's statement and Kim Roberts, the only independent witness Perhaps during the meetings with Meehan, the presence of DNA from multiple males, was mentioned and Gottlieb wanted to ask the AV about that. Since the AV had stated she had sex only with her boyfriend a week before the attack. This is how a real investigators get to the truth, just like in the 1989 case KC talked about earlier. Maybe Gottlieb asked to be pulled off this case, because he didn't want to get caught up in Nifong's and the AV's hoax. Turning this whole case over to the DA and letting him run the investigation is inconceivable to me. Perhaps, Nifong had flashbacks of M.J. Thaxton, wanting him to drop the case. I could see Himan being pulled off for other cases, that needed attention, but why the lead investigator. I can only assume, it was because Nifong and Gottlieb had disputes, especially after Gottlieb, put in his report, that when they met with the AV in April, they talked about the case and Nifong denied that in court. Maybe Gottlieb could have been the M.J. Thaxton in this case, but Nifong wanted nothing to do with that.
"Is that the largest courtroom they have in the state courthouse?"
The only other time I've been in the Durham courthouse was to get a license so I could be married in Duke Chapel. Little did I think I'd ever enter that building again.
I have not been in the other courtrooms so I can't answer your question. Wouldn't the room where grand juries meet be smaller than the others especially given the star chamber quality of grand juries in NC? After all, why would they need seating for anyone to observe the secret and unrecorded proceedings?
Gottlieb already is in hot water with his report. First, the report was a work of fiction, and transparent fiction at that. Second, it would be interesting to know who leaked it to the NY Times.
Criminal investigators, be they from the state or the feds (or both) need to lean on Gottlieb a bit. This is a guy who does not relish the idea of going to jail, and I would be interested to see if he is willing to rat out Nifong. Just a hunch.
I have been posting about my friends, lawyer, sorry I am very tolerant, who have been feeding me the outrage here in NC about Nifungu and his soon to be disbarment. I really believe something is up and will happen soon, but lawyers are very sneaky. I spent a hour talking to the NC bar about the process to disbar Mikey. The bar has a process, complaint is made, it goes to the grievance committee, and is called a grievance, if the committee thinks it is valid they send it to bar attorneys to investigate. If those attorneys find cause they issue a complaint. notice that a complaint turns into a grievance and then back to a complaint. They do get paid by the hour. All of this is private, until the complaint, decided by the bar attorneys is issued. I think the complaint is going to be issued soon. nifungu has 20 days to reply then he goes to trial, there is just too much noise here in NC not to think something is up, damn if i know
KEMPER why do you keep repeating yourself? You are in strong competition with Liefong for being the less truthful, or incompetent HUMAN of the Year in North Carolina for 2006!
The cross of Meehan also puts Nifong on notice that the cross-examination of the victim (if it ever gets to that) will be just as thorough. Given all of the different stories, and all of the obvious falsehoods told by the accuser, there is simply no way that she would be able to withstand it. Nifong has to know that. He has to know this case is NEVER going to trial. EVER. It simply cannot because there is no way that the woman could give a coherent story under cross.
Of course, that's small comfort to the Duke 3 who must squirm until the case is ultimately dismissed, but it is the endgame.
Nifong has to be gambling that if the alleged victim doesn't show up he can simply claim that his hands were tied. The problem, of course, for Nifong is that he has certainly not acted as a person who has pursued the truth in good faith.
No matter how bad Nifong is, I also simply refuse to believe that he would countenance putting these guys up for hard time for a crime that he knows in his heart of hearts that they did not do. He'll let them squirm. But he would not do that--i don't think.
Fool, Lifong is capable of sitting back and laughing while these guys are being executed!
Kemper, do you live in Durham? You seem to have connections that no one else has.
Sir , Nifong is a smug Heartless Bas**** who for his own ends has led these 3 boys like lambs to the slaughterhouse.
The man should be held accountable.
I know Liberals do not have that word in there vocabulary but it's time this JERK was held to account for his crimes?
9:19 thank you for saying that. I have just save your comment to my hard drive.
I will be priting it out and even thou I don't know who you are, I will take as a death threat on Collin, David and Reade. So again thank you.
Bill, I think Gottlieb will and it will not take much leaning. I was a P/O and would not risk my retirement on the likes of Nifong. You just have to keep in the back of your mind that who ever investigates Gottlieb is a fellow officer, whether state or federal. It may be eaiser to cut a deal with Gottlieb then you think. Had I worked that long for a pension, I would want to keep it. I, personally would make a deal with anyone, to keep my pension. On the other hand Himan is relatively new and no one is going to cut a deal with him, except not charging him with something. I still wonder why Gottlieb was pulled as lead investigator of the biggest case and most publisized case in Durham?
Yo, these three will get their just desserts in jail, just like Nifong promised. Rape Kidnaping or whatever the jury will find them guilty of something.
Whiteman, you truly are pathetic.
Couldn't we all agree to ignore the person posing as theman?
Yo, these three will get their just desserts in jail, just like Nifong promised. Rape Kidnaping or whatever the jury will find them guilty of something."
Very good. You've now gotten all your spelling correct and most of the grammar. Your posts are now fairly readable.
But unfortunately you still have not included *any* arguments supporting your thesis. Remember substance is just as important as form and clarity. So...
Yeah, I guess I will lay off wimpman.
Broadhead's statement is disgusting to me because he almost implies he wants these boys to go to trial.
Nifong's own Law School turn's on him!
Has anyone else noticed how Nifong is always kind of laughing under his breath when dealing with the press? He did so with ABC today when he said he was not worried about the charges and he also did it when he dealt with Bob Harris and on several other occasions. This man is delusional if he thinks he is going somewhere and is not under fire.
And why would he call the bluff of the DOJ by saying he is not worried about them?
What else can Nifong say, the truth?
Why start now.
A clip from Brodhead's statement;
"the DA's case will be on trial just as much as our students will be,"
Now he thinks he's standing up for his students - what an a-hole.
This guy just doesn't get it.
His students are getting railroaded and he gives validity to 'their trial' by mere mention of it !
Let's send this simple poet back to New Haven and get someine in there who can be a leader.
please stop replying to theman and his aliases
theman is off his meds and boring
ur responses to him r boring
Can we all also agree to ignore the person who thinks this is an english class.
Everybody who believes this case should be resolved by 12 jurors , gets attacked, ripped, investigated, reviewed, yelled at, abused. What happens when the President gets questioned about this case and he states he believes in our Judicial system.... I guess it will be time for a new President or his IRS records will get reviewed.
He whines about others' (admittedly awful) spelling and grammar, but spells the word "grammer" himself. So he deserves to be ignored.
As much as I would like to see Nifong fry for his significant part in this ordeal I worry that his downfall would obscure the real culprits in this tragedy: misandry and chivalry. Those two are silently fueling the thousands of others who are responsible for this situation. The Gang of 88, Brodhead, the NYTimes and the press in general, most of the general public, etc. Without misandry and chivalry these young men would never have been treated in such a hateful manner. We need to put misandry and chivalry on trial as soon as possible. Anyone interested in these ideas might want to read "Spreading Misandry" and "Legalizing Misandry" by Nathanson and Young. Two very important books which chronicle the spread of misandry through our media, courts, and legislatures.
Of course, chivalry is "sexist," and Lord help us with misandry. (I was introduced to the Modern Age as a college freshman in 1971. I held a cafeteria door open for a female student, and heard a stream of obscene invectives.)
Bill said: "I held a cafeteria door open for a female student, and heard a stream of obscene invectives.)"
Yes, and you were then formally introduced to the world of double standards facing males. Then there is the world of male emotions where you are either a cold hearted SOB since you don't emote like your wife or you are a wimp if you do. There's not much in between.
I would be curious to hear what you think of the Legalizing Misandry book.
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