One attorney initially involved in the lacrosse case, Butch Williams, currently represents Roy Bodden in a murder trial. In pre-trial actions, prosecutor Tracey Cline attempted to introduce a 911 call reporting the shooting, in which the victim allegedly identified Bodden. Williams protested, citing the recording’s poor quality; and Judge Ripley Rand found it “difficult to believe” that all 911 tapes in
We needn’t worry about this issue complicating the lacrosse case: Mike Nifong appears disinterested in using contemporaneous audio evidence. Despite defense requests for their preservation, the district attorney and (after March 24) supervising investigator allowed police to destroy the recordings of the initial police calls identifying the accuser as “passed out drunk.”
Why confuse the jury with facts, when case strategy is based instead on an appeal to prejudice?
In recent months, NCCU law professor Irving Joyner, designated by the state NAACP to “monitor” the case, has emerged as a forceful, eloquent advocate for the prosecution. He declared, “This case originated in
Yet Joyner wasn’t always so blasé about civil liberties or the rights of the accused, even in cases where he had no legal involvement. In
Joyner’s NCCU colleagues, silent on the issue of police misconduct in the Gottlieb report or the “separate-but-equal” policy of disproportionately meting out punishment to Duke students, seem to care more about the matter when it hits closer to home, even when the “misconduct” appears trivial or non-existent.
Janice Dargan, an adjunct in the NCCU English Department, was recently ticketed by Officer T.D. Hart, who claimed that she hit the automobile behind her when she tried to park her car. Dargan told the officer that she was late for a class, and asked him to resolve the matter during her office hours. He agreed to do so.
Dargan’s response? To publicly castigate Hart for allegedly speaking to her in a “rough” fashion. “They need to understand the unique environment of a college campus,” said the NCCU adjunct. “Officers should use a little more discretion in the way they operate.”
Three recent Herald-Sun articles provided unintentional insight into the flawed workings of the
1.) In an article that could have been subtitled “Gangs? No Problem!,” the department revealed its solution to the city’s gang problem: use cooked statistics. The city council authorized $60,000 for a study asserting that the police department’s estimates of gang membership are more reliable than the (inconveniently higher) estimates of both the county sheriff’s office and the state. And, for good measure, the study called for funding a gang prosecutor’s position in Mike Nifong’s office from state rather than
2.) City Manager Patrick Baker announced that he wants to have a new police chief in place by the end of August—a timetable that will allow the current chief, Steven Chalmers, four months on the city’s payroll with nothing to do. Baker said that Chalmers could be moved to his office, to handle a “special project,” or could use up accumulated vacation time. (Since Chalmers was out of sight for months at a time earlier this year, allegedly tending to an ill mother, it’s remarkable he has any vacation time remaining.) Baker didn’t say why the city even needs a police chief, given that Nifong appears to believe that he can usurp the role whenever it’s politically convenient to do so.
3.) A December 7 article that has since vanished from the H-S website discussed the City Council debating the DPD’s plans to build a pricey new headquarters and to reduce the number of substations from five to two. Part of the justification: the excessive cost of leasing the buildings that house the current substations. Mayor Bill Bell expressed skepticism about the proposal.
For Gustafson, though, Steel’s hypocrisy especially sticks out. “I’m sorry,” he asks,
Is this the *same* Chairman Steel who said [to rationalize canceling the lacrosse season], “We had to stop those pictures,” and, “It doesn’t mean that it’s fair, but we had to stop it. It doesn’t necessarily mean I think it was right—it just had to be done” in the New Yorker not three months ago? Well, sir, now the pictures are of a Chairman of the Board of Trustees who must recuse himself from financial decisions, and of an Undersecretary of the Treasury that has watchdog organizations questioning if it is possible to perform that job ethically while continuing the leadership role of the Board.
To re-cast your own words—“You have to stop those pictures. It doesn’t mean that it’s fair, but you have to stop it... It just has to be done.” Duke needs a leader of the Board of Trustees that can be fully engaged in *all* aspects of the University, and the Treasury needs a person at Domestic Finance in whom the country can place its complete trust.
This is not the time for Duke to have a leader who must walk on eggshells to avoid any sense of conflict of interest. If, for example, Duke wants to oppose the City of
Durhamregarding rezoning, or rebuilding Central Campus—we now have a Chairman who must either remain silent or face headlines the next morning, “Federal Official Applies Pressure to - Uses Leverage to Promote Duke.” Durham
And, heaven forbid anyone decides to look into the claims of prosecutorial misconduct in the lacrosse case or Duke-Durham relations with respect to allegations of improper behavior by the Durham Police Department. Though, I suppose that’s not really going to happen. Maybe in the next round of committees, we can create an “Off-Campus Culture Initiative.”
A thoughtful commenter on the Liestoppers board, by the way, took issue with critiquing Steel’s conflict-of-interest difficulties, arguing that he didn’t see that Steel “has done anything legally, morally or ethically wrong. He’s doing what virtually every person confronted with that situation does.”
Not exactly, as the various good-government groups pointed out. The primary task of a Trustee is to tend to an institution’s fiduciary responsibilities—and even more so, the chairman of the BOT. The primary task of the undersecretary of the Treasury in charge of domestic finance is, the Washington Post noted, to “oversee the nation’s multi-trillion-dollar financial markets.”
As a conflict inherently exists between these two positions, Steel’s response has been to say that he’ll recuse himself from his Duke obligations. The result for Duke: it now has a BOT chairman who can’t do a major component of the job, and whose sole rationale for remaining appears to be to prop up the Brodhead regime.
The Liestoppers board also quotes an advertising brochure sent to high school seniors interested in Duke, which I reproduce in its entirety, with links added:
are intertwined. When you’re part of one, you’re part of the other. Faculty members and their families live near freshman residence halls and in neighborhoods close to campus, where there’s a lively mix of native Durham North Caroliniansand international researchers, grassroots activists and Research Triangle professionals. Life here is part cosmopolitan, part small town . . .
We know the decision about where you spend the next few years is a big one. As you consider all of the factors, let us tell you why more that 210,000 people are proud to live in Duke’s home city of Durham, North Carolina. It’s not just the good weather!
Many Duke students enjoy working with kids in all grades of
’s public schools. Our engineering students partner with local contractors to design and build playgrounds and parks. [These activities, as we’ve seen, produced generous responses from the “community.”] And local political figures lecture in public policy classes. Durham
Chances are you’ll find these and other new, creative ways to link your knowledge and interests to those of your neighbors.
Our special community is filled with civic-minded individuals who feel passionately about Durham. We all work together to enhance the safety and welfare of our residents, students and visitors.
Come experience Duke in
for yourselves. It’s where great things happen! Durham
/s/ Richard H. Brodhead /s/ William V. Bell
President of Duke University Mayor of
In fairness to Duke, I’m sure that many prospective parents—for very legitimate reasons—worry about sending their sons or daughters to Duke right now, given the behavior that we’ve all seen of
Former NBA player Charles Barkley, of all people, delivered a stinging rebuke to Nifong enablers who want to use the justice system to address real or perceived racial wrongs. The O.J. Simpson case “and the Duke Lacrosse scandal,” said Sir Charles,
show you that we have a racial divide in this country, because it’s just really about being right or wrong. I, personally, think O.J.’s guilty. When the Duke Lacrosse thing happened you saw people taking sides. I’m like, well I don’t have an opinion, I don’t know any evidence and now that I’ve seen evidence I don’t believe anything happened.
When Charles Barkley is offering more perceptive commentary on criminal justice than the New York Times, we have truly entered Wonderland.
Actually, Charles Barkley has offered more perceptive commentary than The New York Times for a long time.
Anybody who thinks that Steel doesn't have an implicit conflict of interest problem is either ignorant, stupid or being deceptively naive.
As chairman of the Board of Trustees Steel has explicit knowledge of the financial dealings, transactions, *investments* and funding for Duke University.
As undersecretary of the Treasury Steel has explicit knowledge and direct or indirect control or influence on the financial markets and other vehicles for investment.
So WTF is BOT Steel going to do if UnderSecTreas Steel has to approve a measure that he *knows* will hammer a significant investment by Duke?
So what is BOT Steel going to do if UnderSecTreas Steel has highly privledged knowledge of impending mergers, acquisitions, tax law changes, IPO's and other significant challenges to financial investments?
So what is BOT Steel going to do when/if investors try to curry favor with UnderSecTreas Steel by donating large sums of money to Duke?
Frankly this decision by Steel isn't nearly as stupid as the decision by nearly everyone else to let it happen. It's absolutely a perfect setup for corruption as I can't imagine the amount of money that will be used to influence Steel.
And when, not if, that corruption becomes evident then it's time to put Steel into prison for the rest of his miserable stupid life.
Why? Because anybody who sets themselves up for this sort of nonsense deserves it.
I was just going to say the same thing... Barkley has a lot of interesting opinions.
When most of us are required to preserve records of different kinds for periods of several years, it is difficult to imagine how the DPD can get away witht the destruction of exculpatory evidence in any criminal case, especially after defense has called for its preservation. Mr. Nifong's disregard for preserving this information, yet another violation of due process, should not be difficult to demonstrate. His in court comments and demeanor about the accuser's cell phone and preservation of its call log (which should have been important even to him) are enlightening.
Michael Gaynor's analysis yesterday of Supreme Court decisions regarding lineup identifications is a must read.
Not clear how Mr. Nifong keeps these violations going. But the more they are publicized the better. How soon can you get your project going, J.C.? The country really needs a wake up call.
A very small nitpick--Mike Nifong actually appears "uninterested" in using audio evidence; if he were "disinterested," that would mean he has no stake in the issue--obviously not the case.
"the issue of... “separate-but-equal” policy of disproportionately meting out punishment to Duke students"
KC - Give this issue a rest. Being tougher on collegae age kids for taking "formerly on-campus" party behavior "off campus" to where working families live is responsible police work.
Your civil rights argument indicates that 'gas is expanding to fill the room' and you don't have much to talk about.
And drop the "Bob Steel coverage" too - you're becoming a simple anti-Duke crank.
Your information and commentary on the "88", and the DA/police abuses are compelling.
Let's stick to what is relevant to the core issue - that 3 kids were sent up by a corrupt system and abused by leftist academics.
good point sincerely, but let's not forget incompetent
docu update: i've decided to proceed with the project espite my disgusting workload: that's how pissed off i am about this persecution
i'm gonna go into creative mode and come up with a working title for project, which will be an in-your-face documentation of the ideas and players in this witchunt
c u later
"Let's stick to what is relevant to the core issue - that 3 kids were sent up by a corrupt system and abused by leftist academics."
While I certainly agree with the core issue at hand, it has also been very enlightening what KC has reported regarding Duke/Durham in general. Would you not agree that the student recruiting letter recently mailed to HS seniors from Brodhead and Bell was a complete whitewash of reality? Without KC's reporting, I would have bought every word of it 8 months ago.
I think the issue isn't that DPD is meting out imbalanced punishment to college-aged students; it is that it is only the Duke college-aged students are targeted. And this goes towards a pattern of unequal "justice" that continues.
As for talking about Bob Steel - having a chair of the board of trustees that cannot be an active part of the discussion because of potential charges of conflict of interest or abuses of influence is very much relevant to what has been, can be, and should be done for Reade, Collin, and Dave.
To the 10.56:
As a couple of other commenters noted, the issue here is that the DPD has an official policy of meting out disproportionate punishment to Duke students--not NCCU students, not Durham high school students. Just Duke students.
The policy is directly relevant to this case, since statistical evidence exists that the policy was abused by Sgt. Mark Gottlieb, who arrested 10 times as many Duke students as the other three District 2 supervisors combined in the 10 months before the lacrosse party. When asked to justify Gottlieb's record, Capt. Ed Sarvis suggested that the other supervisors hadn't been doing their job as effectively.
As for Steel: he injected himself into the case with his explanation for canceling the season (a statement, it's worth noting, that differs from the college's official explanation); and his subsequent refusal to apply his own standards (act according to Duke's best p.r. interests) to himself.
KC... I find it rather strange that in Durham or the entire state of N.C all of its judges rotate thier seats every six months, does Durham not have that many judges that they have to do this?
What happens in the middle of oh say a murder trial, does the judge just get up and say sorry you have to start all over again with a new judge, My time here is over? Maybe this is why Nifong likes to cut so many deals.
Here up and in a lot of other states when a judge is sendt to sit on a court bench he/she is there until either,
1. they get disbarred for some form of misconduct.
2. they retire or go in to private pratice.
3. they die of old age.
Maybe the state of N.C should just put all of its religious "leaders" on the benches.
There would be no need for evidence because Durham has already showed the rest of us that they will not look at any of it.
Mr. Nitfong is just a puppet for those "Leaders" . I guess MLK really didn't mean what he said in his I Have A Dream Speeech.
Becasue if he did mean it, than he is truning over in his grave. To see what the people of Durham and in the south have done to his memroy.
I must disagree with anyone who says that KC's work in providing a panoramic view of ALL of Durham is not necessary.
Only when you get a dose of how the people who run the place behave can you understand the mindset that functions like a moving target of double standards and injustice. More like ever-disgruntled and expectant children.
Those of us who have lived in the Triangle for a while get a dose of the strangeness allowed to go on there all the time.
Mayor Bill Bell is a straight arrow compared to the rest........and he is totally mired in conflicts of interest: UDI, from where he gets a salary, is constantly given taxpayer money. Bell "leaves the room" (cough! cough!) when the city council votes to approve funds for UDI. He used to be a county commissioner.
For years upon years a black clique has run the town. The former county manager, who is a walking imbecile, was fired for incompetence some years back.....so some of his buddies gave him a "make work" job where he was supposed to do a "study" of the cemeteries in Durham. LOL!!!
The guy, George Williams, is supposed to be an architect and he didn't even get the name right of the renowned architect Olmstead when doing his "report". He also used the word "tenant" when the word should have been "tenet".
From where did this guy get his education, I wonder?
His work of just several pages netted him thousands of dollars of public money and kept him eligible for his state retirement money, which he wouldn't have gotten otherwise because he was fired as Durham County Manager.
This one example is a fraction of what goes on there. Open corruption.
The most hilarious circus show was a crazy woman who was elected to the school board and then to the city council--Jackie Wagstaff.
She and her supporters always produced an embarrassing mess....full of racist taunts and attacks on the other members who were white......all televised.
Even though this woman was evicted time after time from different residences, her particular constituency kept electing her.......until recently.
Apparently, some of the voters had finally had enough of the uncivilized behavior.
Durham's black community operates like a banana republic......and are seemingly proud of it.
jim clyne, don't bother with any "creative mode." No one is waiting or cares. We are here to read KC.
"for every event that occurs, there will follow another event whose existence was caused by the first, and this second event will be pleasant or unpleasant, depending on the first event".
READ IT AGAIN ... let in sink in!
Okay, legally, they're innocent. What about morally? Did these guys "as a group" ever conspire to harm the opposite sex? Did they ever operate under a "veil of secrecy" to harm the opposite sex?
Did they ever "drug and rape" women. Probably not (at least not all of them) yet they all condoned this type behavior (all for one, one for all type mentality)?
Karma (prarie justice) ... what do you guys think about that (OTHER THAN MY THEORY HAS NO LEGAL MERIT). I want "honest" answers! thanks
Well, now I have seen it: the Karma Theory of Justice. No doubt, the person who posted that nonsense never has done a wrong thing, never has had a false thought, never has made a false accusation.
K.C. is right; Durham IS Wonderland.
I'm familiar with the concept of karma but beyond that I have no idea what you're talking about.
None of the players have a history of sexual assault or a history of condoning sexual assault or a history of drugging and raping women or anything else along those lines.
The DPD are doing a great job, getting these Duke routies off the Durham streets and back on campus where they belong.
5:38 that is a wild statement "did any of them drug and rape".
Probably not ( at least one of them)
First of all if you don't know any of them you should not type like that because this a statement like yours it can and should be used in a motion to demiss.
All the lawyers have to do now is keep showing the judge, is comments like yours and there goes the case.
Little ms.CGM has strike 3. She seems to let everyone else do her talking. Maybe she should come out of hiding and face the national press, sorry they don't even believe this case anymore.
Nitfong claims to be a champ. of women's causes, then answer me this why did one of hie own female ADA's up and quit when Nitfog refused to do anything about another ADA MALE that was causing sexual harrassment on the job.
Sounds to me like Nifong really doesn't care about females only his JOB and his standing in the community.
Who would believe anything Charles Barclay says, after all he spits on front row fans.
Any word on what Cash Michaels is talking about in his posts about earth-shaking news?
Cash is only on another rant just like the last time
Cash found out there are 2, yet to be identified witnesses. He will probably reveal on Dec 15th.
Regarding Karma and the Ladies:
Many observers of the LAX team have noticed that they are not un-popular with the most desired women on campus. Reasonable people might interpret that as a very honest form of judgment from that quarter.
Sexual jealosy is a force of nature, especially among the young. Guys without dates walking by a LAX party; seeing the hotties crawling all over the guys - that sort of thing can make a guy a little crazy - such that he would confuse his own desperate yearning for come-uppance with the deeper workings of the universe. And in doing so, run up a karmic debt on his own
The Cash-man found out they are offering two Big Macs for the price of one. Along with jumbo fries and gallon size Coke this week.
That's his Big News! He is one happy Precious fan!
Why does everyone want to pick on Cash, he is a serious journalist, gathering and distributing as much information on this case as possible.
Why does everyone want to pick on Cash, he is a serious journalist, gathering and distributing as much information on this case as possible.
Oh puh-lease. Tell me you were able to type that with a straight face. Cash's few attempts at professional reporting have all failed miserably. Now, he stays with what he knows best - pot-banging and race-baiting.
Cash found out there are 2, yet to be identified witnesses. He will probably reveal on Dec 15th.
Witnesses to what?! Are we now saying that there were SIX people in this bathroom?
Kim Roberts might have flipped again we all know she can't tell the same story twice just like the AV.
The other person might be cousin Jakki. She will say, yes judge Smith I was in the bathroom the whole time or I was standing outside the window the hole night.
Com'on Sundajack, they were standing outside the bathroom window. Guess who they were, Kim and Jakki.
The poster "Hman" offers some provocative insights concerning this case. A few of which have crossed my mind as well.
Especially with regard to Reade Seligmann, I think that other "men on campus" might have reason to be envious. Collin and Dave are nice guys, I'm sure; however, Reade possess an "IT" factor.
No doubt many were more than a bit envious of his athletic, academic, and girl-magnet factors.
I'm not attempting to make these guys into saints, but they have been caricatured and turned into many things they are not by media hounds.
At university, I dated a lacrosse player for a few years. There were great parties, but he and his fellow teammates were all gentlemen at the end of the day. Great stand-up guys all the way around.
As I know that Collin, Reade, and Dave are.
I really do think that envy is a major player in this minefield.
How many little anemic, scrawny, and never-were-able-to-excel-in-athletics "reporters" and "journalists" do you think are libeling and slandering these lacrosse guys out of envy?
Cash is an honorable man with the highest integraty and impecable honesty, his journalistic instincts are without a doubt the best we have today. Add that to the fact that he has some inside scoop, that no one else has, makes him better then most reporting on this case.
Cash is in the house
Wart-faced Nifong has some special scoops too, but he will still be disbarred.
I don't know why everyone is down on Cash and Nifong, one's a reporter and the other a DA. They are both doing their jobs, trying to put guilty people in jail.
Are you Kerry Sutton (aka) the fat girl who did a 180- on this case?
You all ought to be grateful, that we have the likes of Cash Michaels out there reporting on this case.
YOU DO REALLY MEAN RAILROADING DON'T YOU COME ON NOW YOU NOW THE SAY " THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE"
The truth will get 3 people put in jail for a long time.
With all of racist people in Durham, it is no wonder you chose to follow the likes of Cash Michaels and Mike Nifong.
Every time I have talked with Cash he has never been very nice at all.
He always race baits and says more racist things than I can repeat on the internet.
Cash is just fueling the fan of hate and right along side the NAACP the words of MLK don't mean a damn.
7:46--Nah, the feds are going to crush Durham before it's all over.
Justice will prevail. Count on it.
On Cash Michaels:
I have seen his remarks on the various forum boards, and can't really comment on them. I try to avoid unfounded speculation.
My approach to writing about this case has been to research my posts and produce them as they are ready. Certainly, if I ever uncovered a scoop of significance, I would reveal it in a timely fashion; and were I unable to do so, I would remain silent about it.
I am a not close enough to Duke/Durham to pick up on the subtleties of local reputations. But I do notice some big, obvious facts about the LAX team, one of which is that the women with the most choices and the least reason to put up with mis-treatment seem to have no problem with hanging out with them. That, to my simple way of looking at it, says more than anything.
I also tend to believe that sexual jealosy is driving some in the faculty to want to de-emphasize sports. That nonesense about "helmeted sports" and runaway "male entitlement" sounds to me like sour grapes. A lot if academic types went thru school without getting in on a lot the supposed automatic pay-off for just being a male. Instead, they saw the sexual benefits of being something they were not - being a high profile athlete.
A reasonably confident guy might tell himself, "Big surprise,it is good to be an athlete/rock star/fighter pilot. Duh. But there are many forms of doing that and I am just getting started. 10 years from now, an MD degree might be a hotter item than a fading letter jacket."
But the path of Asst Prof - struggling up to maybe eventually Prof is not likely to ever redeem the trauma of being ignored as a dweebish undergrad and some guys never get over it. Hence the need for comeuppance.
I bet the attitudes among the Med School/Law School faculties are quite a bit different on the subject.
Re. an imminent Big Revalation:
I'm in no position to know anything, but one can take an overall look at the state of the prosecution's case and speculate what might be helpful to that cause.
Two overall trends.
(1) In almost all important regards, the case has moved over time from complex and ambiguous to simple.
--At first it looked like possible felony rape, now we know it wasn't
--The A.V.'s story might have been consistent and plausible, now we see it was never either.
--The three accused players might have engaged in misdeeds that night, now the timeline tells us they could not have.
--DNA evidence might have identified suspects, it didn't.
--The police might have followed proper procedures, now we know they queered the case from the outset.
And so on.
(2) Judging from the November vote and from commenters on this blog and elsewhere who state or imply that they are from Durham, there is a fairly large reservior of people who want the three accused men to be convicted. No. Matter. What.
So, from D.A. Nifong's point of view, what the case needs now is some Confusion. Enough to Keep Hope Alive, and move the case through the courts to trial. Enough to keep the Convict'Ems energized.
The form doesn't really matter. Could be pressure on the cabbie to get a public recantation, or 'evidence' that ATM videotapes were tampered with, or conspiracy theories that implicate Duke Medical Center's handling of forensic evidence. Or Astounding Claims by new I-Was-There witnesses.
Anything that offers confusion to the courts and provides a jolt of energy to the anti-due-process mob will suffice.
6:24 pm - Victim in Mass:
Why, you must be referring to 'Come get some' C. Destine, aren't you? ;>)
Can you imagine the scene in the DA's office in July when that myspace page was discovered? LOL, I bet you could almost set your clock by the time the page was deleted the next Monday AM.
8:30 am, report for work, 8:30:37 am, myspace profile deleted!
Fortunately peeps at FR and thousands around the globe had been screenprinting, saving as, and downloading all the pics off the site for 3 days before C. knew he was busted!
...why did one of his own female ADA's up and quit when Nitfog refused to do anything about another ADA MALE that was causing sexual harrassment on the job
"So what is BOT Steel going to do if UnderSecTreas Steel has highly privledged knowledge of impending mergers, acquisitions, tax law changes, IPO's and other significant challenges to financial investments?"
Working at Goldman Sachs, he knew about them before the Sec of Treasury did - he would not have risen to sr management if he did not
Everybody, everywhere can engage in all the PC discussion they want, but what this case has mostly done so far is to show the country what we are dealing with from the so-called black community.
You can listen to any of the pot-bangers. Even to those who are educated. Most all of them side with the false accuser. What we see is the irrational side of these people. Their brains seem to turn to jello when they smell a chance to eff with some white people.
I never saw this kind of thing as prevalent as it is here. Makes me wonder why any of us try to appease such people.
I am a Jew and when I encounter a German or anyone of German extraction, I don't sit back and think of ways to harm that person.
Blacks have been appeased too often for too long. Most just need to start working for a living instead of living off a plan to get something out of someone for free all the time.
And I don't care what anyone tries to make us believe, it will take most blacks another century to catch up. And not because of the old crutch slavery, but because they as a people are that far behind, fundamentally.
It's way past time for others to put up with being burdened by troublemakers and unproductive people. Cut'em loose and see where they end up.
In the trash heap where they seem at home, anyway.
"DPD has an official policy of meting out disproportionate punishment to Duke students--not NCCU students"
KC - Sorry, but you got your bow-tie a little too tigh on this one. Since Duke is 99% non-Black and NCCU is 99% Black, I don't think any Duke student would change places with a NCCU student on the SOLE basis of how police treat them - 2 wrongs don't make the proverbial right - but give this issue up already.
Hey 10:30PM - your knuckles are dragging -
10:30pm makes some honest points. Though they may be bitter pills to swallow.
That's why someone like Barack Obama is embraced by most all Americans. Seldom do we get a black man who is as versatile and who does not carry the banner of "black power to the people" to the point where it's a turnoff.
It should also be mentioned that blacks who come here from places like the Caribbean, from the African continent, etc. and are well-educated seem to prosper in this country because they have not grown up in this affirmative action and enabling climate.
The culture that we Americans have created for blacks to get a free ride is the cause of dysfunction and squalor.
"KC - Sorry, but you got your bow-tie a little too tigh on this one. Since Duke is 99% non-Black and NCCU is 99% Black, I don't think any Duke student would change places with a NCCU student on the SOLE basis of how police treat them - 2 wrongs don't make the proverbial right - but give this issue up already.
Sincerey. 10:38 PM "
You missed the point while making the case. Race and (attempted, i.e. perceived) class discrimination. Unless you are going to claim statistical proof that NCCU students engage in significantly less under-age drinking and other misdemeanor violations, e.g. public urination and noise violations, OR that an equal number of NCCU students are cuffed and carried to the local jail for the same violations as are Duke students, you have just given the REASON Duke students are singled out for prosecution and police brutality over other students.
I assure you, NO Duke students want to go to NCCU. But, that has nothing to do with the DPD's decision to seek out Duke students to harrass and arrest in situations that probably occur with enormous frequency throughout Durham, AND which are occurring at the same time gangs are running arms and drugs, unnoticed (wink, wink), out of strip clubs.
By the way, Sincerey (or is it SincereLy?), you're giving yourself away with each new post. Logic always fails in trying to make the Dukies guilty in this case. Your lack of it is coming through loud and clear.
what's yr pt?
That Gotleib, with a ‘chip on his shoulder, was aggressive toward Duke students is relevant, since he was the initial lead investigator for this hoax.
That the DPD ‘rousts’ Duke students for drunkenly disturbing those who need to wake for work, weekend little league carpools, and life in general is responsible police practice – especially since the students are warned “by letter each year” in advance.
– KC’s “Duke student civil rights assault” claim is based on statements/memos made by DPD officials that allow police to get aggressive with drunk/loud Duke students – Since they likely regret revealing that info, don’t expect a similar statement (either way) about the policies toward NCCU students as you are seeking.
My point, and assumptions, are that Black NCCU students are likely exposed to real un-called for police hassles (e.g. “driving while black” is quite real), and that drunk Duke students can control their exposure to ‘getting cuffed’ by simply keeping it to a “good time” and not an all-out disturbance. So, on the SOLE basis of treatment by the DPD, I don’t think any Duke student would “Trade Places” with an NCCU student.
Lets get real - this is not a Duke student civil rights issue.-its about drunk college kids getting a reality check to have concern for their neighbors. IMO – KC has lost perspective and should drop this issue.
An issue worth discussing is that Duke (and many colleges) has “outsourced” its liability for underage drinking and the tragedy of alcohol poisoning to the “general public”. The community has the right to “deal with it”.
Sincerey (think I’ll stick with that)
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