Thursday, December 21, 2006

Nifong: DNA "Excludes" (Except When It Doesn't)

“DNA results,” said Mike Nifong on April 11, “can often be helpful, but, you know, I’ve been doing this for a long time, and most of the years I’ve been doing this, we didn’t have DNA. We had to deal with sexual assault cases the good old-fashioned way. Witnesses got on the stand and told what happened to them.”

As noted on Monday, Nifong failed follow this approach in a 1989 “gang rape” allegation that he oversaw. Then, police tested the accuser’s credibility—in part by having the person supervising the investigation actually speak to the accuser. When “embarrassing” contradictions in her story were discovered, Nifong dropped the charges. The accuser never “got on the stand and told what happened to [her].” Instead, the prosecutor exercised discretion, as he is required to do under the North Carolina Rules of Professional Conduct.

In fact, before the DNA results failed to give him what he needed politically in the lacrosse case, Nifong seemed to believe exactly the opposite of what he suggested on April 11. In a 2000 case, he maintained that since DNA evidence trumped witness identifications, DNA tests could—and should—exclude the falsely accused.

In early 2000, two rapes occurred in the Trinity Park neighborhood, off Duke’s east campus. Acting under strong pressure from the Trinity Park “community,” police charged a black homeless man, Leroy Samuels, based solely on an identification from the second woman who was raped. According to the April 8, 2000, edition of the Herald-Sun, Ed Sarvis (last heard from confirming that the DPD has an official policy of disproportionately meting out punishment to Duke students) expressed confidence in the department’s actions—although, he added, “we’re still in the process of collecting probable cause.” Samuels could not meet his $150,000 bail.

Maybe the police should have tried a little harder to ascertain probable cause before making an arrest. After Samuels was charged, the police sent a rape kit to the State Bureau of Investigation lab. Lacking any political pressure for a fast turnaround, the lab took more than three months to perform its tests. When the results came in, no match existed for Samuels’ DNA. But a male DNA specimen was found. Technicians ran the result through a national crime database, revealing the DNA of Jeffrey Lamont McNeill, who subsequently was charged with the crime.

According to the July 12, 2000 N&O, the prosecutor issued a definitive written statement: “Results of DNA testing exclude the defendant as the perpetrator of this crime.”

The prosecutor’s name: Mike Nifong.

In 2000, then, Nifong viewed DNA as so important that it would “exclude” someone he had already charged with the crime, someone who the victim had identified. (And yes, in this case, there was a real victim.) By 2006, not only had Nifong abandoned his position on DNA (even as most others in law enforcement have become more reliant on DNA evidence), but, on April 10, in a conversation with Dr. Brian Meehan, he contended that a finding of other males’ DNA was not even potentially exculpatory for defendants, and therefore should be excluded from Meehan’s report.

Nifong isn’t the only case-related figure to have performed a 180-degree change between the Samuels case and the lacrosse case. Writing in the July 11, 2000 Herald-Sun, John Stevenson penned an article on the Samuels dismissal framed wholly around the unreliability of eyewitness IDs vis-à-vis DNA evidence.

According to Stevenson,

The Samuels case is not the first time a Durham rape victim reportedly identified the wrong man.

Veteran lawyer Tom Loflin told The Herald-Sun two weeks ago that he once defended a rape suspect who ultimately was cleared by DNA evidence.

According to Loflin, the suspect was accused of raping a woman who lived near him in an apartment complex. The victim said the man broke into her apartment, brutally raped her and then returned to his own apartment.

Loflin said the victim claimed to be certain of her identification. So Loflin’s client was indicted.

But before the case went to trial, a DNA analysis cleared the suspect, even though DNA testing was not as sophisticated then as it is now, Loflin said.

“I have no reason to think this woman would lie,” Loflin added. “I think she was just outright mistaken.”

Loflin said academic studies have proven that, in general, eyewitness testimony is “enormously unreliable.

“Only a tiny fraction of eyewitnesses get it correct,” Loflin said. “This now has been established by DNA testing.”

Nevertheless, juries still tend to think that eyewitness testimony is the strongest form of evidence, even though it actually is the weakest, Loflin contended.

“You have juries believing victims and other eyewitnesses who are notoriously unreliable,” he said. “Juries really need to be educated that eyewitnesses are extremely shaky. It’s dangerous to convict someone on their testimony if there is no corroborating evidence, such as fingerprints or DNA.”

It appears that Stevenson, much like Nifong, has changed his mind about the value of DNA and the sanctity of even the most unreliable and procedurally flawed eyewitness identifications.

In a June letter to the New York Times, St. Louis attorney Thomas Schlafly offered a stinging rebuke of Nifong’s “old-fashioned” comment:

There’s a big difference between convicting a defendant without DNA evidence because the technology did not exist and convicting a defendant when DNA evidence is available and the DNA results are negative.

In the first instance, there would have been no DNA evidence to counter the testimony of witnesses. In the second, such DNA evidence exists and is exculpatory.

It turns out the actual situation is even worse than Schlafly imagined.

Based on his conduct in the Samuels case, Nifong once believed that when “DNA evidence exists and is exculpatory,” rape charges must be dropped. After his pre-primary publicity barrage, however, his beliefs clashed with his personal and political needs. And so, in early April, Nifong would deem irrelevant for Collin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann the same type of test results that freed Leroy Samuels, while the district attorney joined Meehan to do everything they could to ensure that these results would never see the light of day.

The Nifong motto:

In 2000, the DNA excludes; in 2006, exclude the DNA.

142 comments:

Joe T. said...

Man oh man! Some posts make it so so clear. Those in Durham County who voted for Nifong made a deal with a devil.

Anonymous said...

this is truly the most important argument against the hoax..it is simply behind reasonable belief that a woman alleged brutally raped could do directly from the alleged crime scene to the hospital and have absolutely no DNA of the people she claims attacked her. I think because there is so much madness in this case it is easy to overlook this most obvious fact...however i am confident the defense lawyers will not.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the Summer's case, your article states that when technicians ran the result through a national crime database, the DNA was found to match Jeffrey Lamont McNeill. I wonder if Nifong ran the "other" DNA found on the false accuer's body and underwear through a database. If he truly believes she was raped, that DNA could belong to rapists.

kbp said...

Thanks KC

I see 12:13 beat me to the same question!

Another change in procedures?

"...Technicians ran the result through a national crime database, revealing the DNA of Jeffrey Lamont McNeill, who subsequently was charged with the crime."

Anonymous said...

Where are the feds, the North Carolina governor and the U.S. Senators from N.C., the bar association? What are these people waiting on? Nifong's case has been shattered.

Anonymous said...

Question for DNA experts: We know that no lax team members' DNA was found in CGM. We know that the DNA of 5 or 6 other people was found in her. Those people can't be identified (unless their DNA is already in some law enforcement database, I suppose.) But can one tell from the DNA whether the people who deposited it were caucasian, african-american or something else?

Cedarford said...

What creeps me out?

This sequence.

April 8th and 9th, Meehan tests and finds the accuser is covered and injected with semen, but it doesn't match any Dukie. He meets with Nifong, Gottlieb, and Himan on the 10th. All had been informed of the tremedous fight Precious put up to save her honor, that she kicked and scratched but still got ejaculated in and on by "da white boys".
They learn nothing was found under her mighty scratching nails. Not a single cell. No semen from face swabs that 20, 5, 4 or three men ejaculated on. Nothing.
Nifong calls a meeting with the Accuser. Along with Gottlieb and Himan.
Because the DNA evidence indicates her whole story is unbelievable??
No.
Nifong said he met with the accuser and an investigator on April 11, but didn't discuss details of the case because the woman was "too traumatized." Nifong said the woman didn't make eye contact with him and often seemed on the verge of crying. Their discussion centered around how the case would develop, he said."She probably did not speak 15 words during the meeting," Nifong said. SF Gate

15 words. Wonder what they were as her whole story was shredded by the lab results.
And did Gottlieb and Himan, in total consternation about no Duke suspect having any DNA deposited anywhere in a violent semen-spewing rape say that they needed warrants to confirm the DNA of Precious's other donors, and the 3-4 people at the Lacrosse Rape Club they didn't test?
No.
Did they ask Precious who else might have left some sticky business?
No.
On April 16th and 17th, Meehan found more semen stains and increased his male DNA depositors up to 6 men. But no Dukies.
On April 18th, Himan, Nifong, and Gottlieb drive once again to meet with the lab director. 6 guys, not the Dukies. Only one known, the "boyfriend" Murchison. Other 5 unknown.
Did Gottlieb storm out to nab her drivers, get warrants for possible JOhns, insist again that the untested people at the party be tested?
No. Neither did Himan and Nifong. Nor did any of them attempt to interview Precious again as the sperm loads grew in number...
Nifong, in October: "I've had conversations with (the accuser) about how she's doing. I've had conversations with (the accuser) about her seeing her kids," Nifong said. "I haven't talked with her about the facts of that night. ... We're not at that stage yet."

One would have thought that with massive discrepencies in her story, 5 sperm donors unaccounted for, that the Three Muffiteers would be looking far and wide to rehabilitate the case. To account for no DNA from any suspect, huge holes in her story, Seligmann and Finnerty having alibis, Evans demonstrating he might be a compelling defendent on the stand.

They didn't. They didn't even sit her down and ask her to explain the major discrepencies, who the sperm came from....any of that stuff while over 6 months passed by. The remaining untested people at the party were not DNA tested. Nor her "drivers".

Why?

The creepy, creepy conclusion I've come to is the 3 Muffiteers knew their suspects were innocent.

But thought they could bluff this, that national attention would wane, Nifong would be elected, Precious would eventually refuse to testify so their perfidy would not be uncovered. The Dukies were good tools to show black police management that Himan and Gottlief were "with the Team", for Nifong to get his office...and then the whole thing would be dropped when Precious got cold feet and Nifong and the cops could still pose as "we stand for the poor and downtrodden and we believe women who say they are raped."

Now they have a whole pack of incredibly ambitious, intelligent, aggressive young Justice Dept lawyers and investigators cutting their teeth in government before they go for bigger plumbs in State DA's office, politics, corporate law. A chance if Gonzales slips them off their leashes to "save" 3 innocents and bring down at least 4 evildoers in a nationally famous case? They are aching and slavering for this chance of a lifetime to be fired off into Durham to use Gottlieb and Himan to build a Fed case against Nifong, depose every cop and DA in Durham in fact-finding, and access "the Accuser". If allowed, the lucky ones who go would be able to mention "I was critical in uncovering the injustice of the Duke Rape case" when running for Congress 10 years from now.

Nifong? Himan? Gottlieb? 2 dicks are on the chopping block, owners looking at Meehan's severed little weenie. Himan might save his dick if he plays ball. Gottlieb might be left with half a dick if he turns. The Three Muffiteers? Their stupidity, sheer misjudgement, and arrogance is incredible.

May it be rewarded as it deserves to be.

Anonymous said...

From Nifong's prior cases and Stevenson's past columns it is clear that they both know enough to figure out that these three defendants are innocent. Yet they still want them tried and convicted. I don't know why they want that but they do. Scary stuff.

Anonymous said...

This is unbelievable. DNA is good in some cases but not others. What the heck is it going to take to get Nifong off this case? Where is the outrage in Durham?

Anonymous said...

To understand this case you need to understand Durham. The customary rules of fair play and honesty do not apply in that town. Note this recent story in the WRAL news. (http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/120218/) Six (6) individuals now running for public office in Durham are convicted criminals. Applying this standard, Collin Finnerty should qualify to run for Clerk of Court or Register of Deeds in Durham; his DC assault arrest might even qualify him for mayor (but then again it was only a misdemeanor.................)

disgruntled said...

"This is unbelievable. DNA is good in some cases but not others."

This double standard LEGALLY EXISTS when a woman is seeking child support from a man (not the other way round of course). If the father is capable of being trapped using DNA then he will be. If the woman cheated on her partner and decieved him into thinking that the kids were his then DNA evidence no longer applies.

So if the Department of Child Support Services and Family Law courts can behave this way maybe Nifong thought he could as well?

Anonymous said...

Brilliant research. You are the best!

bill anderson said...

K.C.,

Your piece this morning tells me that Nifong should be afraid, very afraid. That is because (1) you are on break, and have even more time to take apart this lie, and (2) your teaching load drops by one in the spring semester.

Yes, K.C. has been skewering the Nifongistas while teaching four classes, a veritable doing-it-with-one-hand-tied-behind-his-back. At this moment, folks, BOTH hands are free.

Anonymous said...

It is amazing what one man can do with two fingers and no sleep!! Thank you KC!!

Anonymous said...

Bravo! This is the real story KC. After seeing a front page op-ed on the Duke lacrosse case in the New York Times not long ago, it would seem their readers now deserve some of your investigative journalism. A US Congressman has complained to the DOJ. A DA has apparently deliberately supressed clearly exculpatory evidence. Yet the NYT remains silent. Are they hiding somenthing too? While their inaction speaks volumes on why the NYT got involved in this story, your ACTION is now driving mainstream opinion. Before this case is laid to rest, many experts are saying it will become an expose of what's wrong with mainstream journalism in America. When that book is written, both you and the NYT will figure prominently. We can easily speculate who will fare better...
Bravo!

GPrestonian said...

KC:

Did you fail to include Nifong's assertion to the Court to the effect that the 'DNA will implicate the perps and eliminate the innocent', given when they were applying for the order to get DNA swabs from the whole team, or did I miss that in your excellent post?

Either way, let us harken back to early May of 2006:

"I wish he hadn't said the DNA was going to exclude innocent parties," the lacrosse player told WTVD. "Because in our minds, we thought this was all going to come back negative and this is going to be over. So from our perspective, we thought this was going to be over, and from the community's perspective, they thought they were going to get three guilty parties. And neither came back."

Anonymous said...

Meehan's lab statement defending his actions is intentionally misleading--He indicated the absence of DNA does not always exclude someone being the perpatrator, but that cannot apply if sampling is correct and immediate. Nifong certainly understood with the initial court submissions that in this case DNA would determine the wrongdoers, if any. Meehan is an ass. I ask again, if there a single instance in the world with existing technology in which proper and immediate sampling of a rape victim does not detect the presence of DNA?

Anonymous said...

From a non-lawyer: Imagine this going to trial (God forbid)! The defense lawyers' call Meehan as a witness. Nifong objects to Meehan testifying for various legal reasons, but the real reason is that Meehan's testimony would further implicate Nifong in a criminal enterprise. Is this so far fetched that it couldn't happen?

Anonymous said...

Although one of the commentators asked the question, is there any response as to why the relevant authorities such as the Bar Association, Disciplinary Board, etc. have not moved on an investigation into Nifong's activities? Is it because the case is still pending? That seems dangerous for the three players in the event a conviction is won. As a former prosecutor and now defense attorney, I have an inherent distrust of the jury system. And given the trial likely takes place in the community that re-elected this DA, I am even more worried about the possible outcome.

Anonymous said...

Chicago writes:

Just another reason to not want to live in Durham!

From WRAL:

Court Records: Six Durham Political Candidates Have Criminal Pasts

Posted: Oct 5, 2005

DURHAM, N.C. — A convicted felon is running for mayor in Durham and he is not the only political candidate who has a criminal past.

About half of the candidates in the upcoming primary election for mayor and city council races have something on their criminal record. Two cases involve protesting, but others may be more serious, including forgery, assault and drunk driving.

Some people say this is bad news for a city already struggling with its public image. Others, however, say they want to judge the candidates on an individual basis.

Evelyn Contre says people should not be haunted by their mistakes, but at the same time she says a criminal record is something voters should really think about.

"You do have to examine what those mistakes were when you elect people to city or state office," Contre said.

By state averages, Durham has an unusually high number of candidates with a criminal record. State Board of Elections Director Gary Bartlett says there is usually one candidate in one race across the state every year.

This year may be unusual, but Bartlett says it is not against the law.

"We've had people who've paid their debt to society and been elected before," Bartlett said.

As long as the candidate in question has served their jail-prison-probation time, they can run.

When confronted with their records at a candidate forum Tuesday night, two candidates were upfront about their pasts.

John Best, who is running for city council, admitted to a DWI charge in 1998 and on-going alimony issues with his ex-wife that landed him in jail for 48 hours.

Jackie Wagstaff explained her side in a case where she was charged with two felony counts for doctoring city checks. She says it was a misunderstanding. She agreed to a plea bargain; and now, she says she wishes she had fought it.

Others appear to have left information out. Shawn Cunningham did not mention he pleaded guilty to an embezzlement charge or explain his history of allegedly writing worthless checks.

Joe Williams did not mention a 1986 assault charge.

When WRAL asked Steven Matherly why he did not mention a series of worthless check charges, he said he forgot about them.

"It was 10 years ago," Matherly said. "I had trouble paying my bills at the time."

Mayoral candidate Vincent Brown, however, was not at Tuesday's forum and therefore, did not comment. Records indicate that Brown served time in prison for forgery.

When members of WRAL's news staff went to Brown's office, one of his office workers told them they were trespassing and should leave.

Some people say the records do not matter.

Jim Fields videotaped the candidate forum and he says he can forgive and forget.

"They have a right to turn their lives around. We all make mistakes," Fields said.

Thomas Edwards has been in Durham for 30 years and he owns a small flower shop. He says he is not worried about public image and he thinks the election process will work itself out.

"What we're going to do is look at everybody," he said. "I'm still proud to be a Durham-ite."

WRAL News spent hours running criminal background checks on 13 candidates in Raleigh -- 10 who are running for city council and three in the mayor's race. A search of state and county records found no criminal convictions for those candidates in North Carolina.

huesofblue said...

Totally off topic, but the St. Louis attorney who wrote the letter to the New York Times criticizing Nifong, Tom Schlafly, is also the owner of Schlafly Brewery. http://www.schlafly.com/ Aside from being a fine lawyer, he’s also responsible for some fine beer. If you see it on the self I recommend giving it a try.

GPrestonian said...

10:11 huesofblue:

News you can use! Thanks! ;>)

bill anderson said...

I hope people understand just how devastating a piece this is. We now have Nifong on the record regarding the role of DNA, and the case that K.C. highlights only emphasizes that the Duke case was pursued for political reasons only.

To put it another way, Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, and David Evans are political prisoners. Let that sink in for awhile, and that will tell you where we are in this country. No doubt, many of the Gang of 88 would demonstrate against the holding of political prisoners by the U.S. Government, yet they are the ones who demand that the State of North Carolina hold political prisoners. Food for thought.

disgruntled said...

Excellent observation Bill Anderson.

Anonymous said...

another reason y brodhead, the 88 diversity pimps, and the board of "trustees" hv to go

they were all complicit, especially the diversity pimps

how to get these low IQ parasites out of Dodge?

any suggestions?

jc

Anonymous said...

Lets see whats in the medical history that was handed over to the defendents attorneys. The DNA that was found on Crystal should be put in the FBI database. The escort agency should be supeoned to give up their records for whom Crystal was engaging with. Nifong knew he was indicting 3 innocent people just to get elected. He strung this case along, like a cornered animal that he is, he has no way out. Under oath Meehan testified his DNA showed up in the rape kit. So in essence there is more of his DNA on Cystal than any of the Duke players including the indicted 3. Maybe Nifong should indict Meehan.

Here is a question that has always bothered me that has never been looked into or answered. The pictures of Crystal at the house show her wearing a flesh colored outfit with pink. After they stopped dancing went into the bathroom and was painting her nails (not being raped). She painted them red. Now anyone would know you don't paint your nails red when you are wearing pink. She was probably getting ready for her next job, as her cell phone records show she had called the escort service. Red nail polish was found on the banniser in the house and seen on the door frame. Obviously her nails were still wet.
When she left photos show her still wearing that flesh/pink outfit. Yet when she reached the hospital she was wearing a little red nighty. She changed or was dressed somewhere inbetween. The time line has her passed out at Kroger's and the officer calling in at a certain time. Yet there is a large time difference from the time she was seen at Krogers by the officer and the time she arrived at the hospital. Possibly the officer took advantage of a passed out hooker and decided to take advantage of the situation. I think his DNA should be tested. No one to date has accounted for where she was and what she was doing in that missing time frame, who changed her outfit if she was passed out. The police knew Crystal from previous encounters to be the crazy hooker she is. Whose to say this wasn't the officer she tried to run down and he wanted a little pay back. I know he had a little fun with her, she came to and he told her if she didn't cooperate she would be in big trouble. Check the officers DNA with what was found in her. It will be a match of at least one.

Anonymous said...

Well said, 11:41

As a Duke grandfather I'm amazed that inferior minds be hired by an elite university.

Just think how stupid these people are: they put their academic reputations (if they ever had any) on the utterances of a stripper

How incredibly stupid!

Anonymous said...

************ Happy Holidays Everyone!!! ***********

And what a glorious season this will be.

UNC-CH law professor Joseph Kennedy has given Nifong a clear and unambiguous view of what his future will be.

At long last....even through the murky, sleazy, and criminal ongoing orgy of participants in Durham----vengeful, illogical black racists...(both educated and uneducated)...along with the ever-present-do-gooder-Liberal-dimbulbs...----hijacked justice for many, many months......finally.....

......"the chickens have come home to roost".

Thanks Malcolm X !


Debrah Correll

Anonymous said...

The News & Observer has an excellent column by Professor Kennedy today.

Nifong is most certainly toast.

Debrah

Stridersho said...

Professor Kennedy has a great quote in his piece today in the N&O...just had to share...

"Prosecutors do not get to play "Battleship" with their discovery obligations by requiring defense lawyers to score a direct hit with a discovery request. Prosecutors must affirmatively disclose what the law requires."

Funny and to the point!

Link - http://www.newsobserver.com/702/story/523895.html

Anonymous said...

from the non-lawyer: Regarding the stunning Kennedy article just cited in the comments, what if Nifong does not remove himself? What happens then when there is such an apparent conflict on interest for Nifong?

Anonymous said...

Bill Anderson's comments about how this article indicates that Nifong used this case for political purposes is right on. This information, carefully researched by KC, clarifies Nifong's reasoning in this case by comparing it to a similar case he handled. Well done KC. Good point Bill.

Anonymous said...

kc, can you comment on the parallels of the "can't miss" line-up procedure and the "don't ask, don't tell" DNA results.

Anonymous said...

Today's brilliant offering by KC....coupled with the column by Professor Kennedy.....have revved up with gusto a most "perfect storm".

Nifong's sleazy "sittin' on the dock of the bay" scenario has been submerged by the gigantic and soothing wave of truth.

Fantastico!

Debrah

Anonymous said...

As others have said, if Nifong actually believed a rape had occurred, he would have searched for the men whose DNA matched the evidence found on the AV. The fact that he made absolutely no attempt to match that DNA means he KNEW nothing had happened. There is no other explanation for his failure to investigate the DNA that was found on a woman who claimed to have been raped. Nifong's past behavior only reinforces that, under normal circumstances he would have searched for "the real rapists."

A good defense attorney would have a field day with him on the witness stand....

Anonymous said...

As to Professor Kennedy's column, does anyone know who has the right to seek Nifong's removal for willful misconduct? Any citizen in his jurisdiction?

Anonymous said...

to 243 from a non-lawyer: I have wondered this as well. Would the quickest path to exoneration be Nifong stepping down? On the other hand, Nifong staying on the case only means that he continues to dig his own grave. Imagine what might happen at the February 5 hearing? The most recent hearing documented Nifong's DNA misconduct. Maybe if you want his law license, civil damages, or criminal charges against Nifong, let him stay on and help hang himeself.

Anonymous said...

to 243: take a look at very recent post at John in Carolina.

Anonymous said...

can we put nifong to bed? he's finished--the only thing we can look forward to is his disbarment, feds' involvement, etc

what interests me:

1. why isn't precious being investigated--how to punish her

2. how to punish the hatin' whitey "professors"

3. how to dispose of brodhead: with the exception of nifong and precious, brodhead is the biggest villain here: he empowered the hate-whitey brigade and abandoned collin, dave, and reade in their moment of need: he is scum, and needs to be dispatched post haste

N.B. beware of bill anderson's defense of brodhead: methinks anderson lacks tenure and thus would not want to be on the record calling for a university president's head

N.B. with respect to removing the academically deficient black rapists: remember, brodhead ecently capitulated to them by elevating their academic ghetto to departmental status--and, BTW, I disagree with kc's analysys of the staffing issue with respect to AAAS: in his analysis of its overrepresentation on campus, he failed to point out the obvious: because blacks have contributed so little to the upper tier of the arts and the sciences, the "concept" of black studies is somewhat of a joke

jc

Kent said...

Quick question for all the good people here, from a non-lawyer who's been following this atrocity with a morbid, spellbound fascination from the very beginning: would the defense be allowed to call Nifong himself to the stand for questioning, during trial; or would that be impossible...?

Thanks!

Anonymous said...

Every voter in the Triangle area, which is represented by U.S. Congressman David Price, should take note and then store his performance into their memory banks.

David Price has done NOTHING about runaway criminal Mike Nifong.

When asked about the hoax, he replied in the same cowardly and irresponsible way that Brodhead has done throughout.

Price has perhaps soiled his Depends more than a few times just thinking about all the black voters he would lose next time around if he actually stood up and did the right and lawful thing----demand justice for three young men who attended a university in his district and demand that Nifong step down post haste.

Pure filthy cowardice!

Congressman David Price, who could pass easily for an opossum on steroids, should have "self-serving coward" stamped on his resumé by his opponent in any future election.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

2:47 - Yea! Collin Finnerty is a convicted criminal. A total punk. Congratulations. That's the first thing anyone has gotten right on this whole site.

Anonymous said...

2:47--- Go eff yourself liar!
Finnerty was framed by a little pu$$y who couldn't take a bit of ribbing. No assault occurred. Anyone can get a magistrate to sign off on a lie with a good act.

Are you one of those stupid jigs in Durham?

Anonymous said...

The above should have been for the stupid jig 3:16pm.

Anonymous said...

What's a JIG?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
duke09parent said...

Kent,
In my state of Virginia, the defense could not call the prosecutor as a witness. I don't know about NC but it would be very unusual. Nifong claimed that if he talked to CGM about the substance of her claim he would become a witness. That struck me as nonsense; such a conversation should be protected by privilege akin to attorney/client privilege. But a number of things in NC criminal procedure have been odd, so I can't say for sure.

Anonymous said...

3:16pm--Are you Mikey's ignorant sister who tries to defend her criminal brother in local papers? Or his mama?

Anonymous said...

to duke09 parent: but Nifong did as chief investigator ("Inspector DA" as in the case of the strange lineup)? I am speaking as a non-lawyer.

Kent said...

Thanks, duke09parent. I was afraid that the possibility might be too "Hollywood" to be legitimately do-able... but: sure would be sweet, wouldn't it...? :)

Anonymous said...

Do the defendants have to have the case against them dropped or be found not guilty in order to sue Nifong for civil damages? OJ was sued, but he was the defendant not the DA, in the Rodney King situation, the LE officers were the defendants. In the NYC rape hoax case the accused could not sue in civil court until hid appeal got his conviction overturned. If the civil suites must wait until its dropped or the accused are found not guilty, is that not a huge conflic of interest?

Wegl Wegl said...

bill anderson said...

I hope people understand just how devastating a piece this is. We now have Nifong on the record regarding the role of DNA, and the case that K.C. highlights only emphasizes that the Duke case was pursued for political reasons only.

To put it another way, Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, and David Evans are political prisoners. Let that sink in for awhile, and that will tell you where we are in this country. No doubt, many of the Gang of 88 would demonstrate against the holding of political prisoners by the U.S. Government, yet they are the ones who demand that the State of North Carolina hold political prisoners. Food for thought.

11:17 AM


Bill

What frightens me about this whole episode is how close all of this is to Pol Pot & the Khymer Rouge. Pol Pot was a weak academician with dreams of power & delusions of re-educating and redefining society from the ground up. Truth doesn't matter. Justice doesn't matter. Integrity doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the politics. Slaughter whoever stands in the way. Rationalize it all. The end justifies the means.

Anonymous said...

3:12 Debrah--it's hard to believe that you have turned on the brothas. Your one hot babe and boy can you dance.
Yeah, I've seen your hot self. You smokin', baby.
Why so hard on Nifong?. He does all he can, cause he's the man.

Anonymous said...

To Duke09Parent--I have long been wondering about Nifong's claim that he did not interview her because he didn't want to be called as a witness. I wish a NC attorney could tell us the conditions under which he could be called--Could he be called because he acted as the lead investigator? Or could he be called if he heard her give multiple stories? (In which case the defense would have to convince the judge that there were grounds for calling nifong to testify.) If it is the latter, then Nifong's very refusal to meet with the AV suggests he knew she was unreliable. It certainly can't be the case that prosecutors can always be called, or they would never meet with the victims of crimes...

I remember early on in the case that some legal experts on the Abrams show talked about the possibility of Nifong being called as a witness if her heard the AV change her version of the events....I've always wondered if he heard this discussion, and then decided he needed to be careful about his conversations with the AV (or at least the conversations he admitted to having with the AV.)

Anonymous said...

I thought a jig was a sort of a dance.

theman said...

To 3;16, your righ, don't worry though, Colin Finnerty will end up in jail after this trial concludes.

Anonymous said...

it's a conspiracy--

let's not forget the co-conspirators.

Dave said...

The New York Times changes its position on DNA, too. They have a story today about the Innocence Project using DNA evidence to spring an inmate in New York State. It wasn't written by Duff.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/21/nyregion/21brown.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=slogin

Hobo said...

To the man, why do you post here?

Anonymous said...

What is truly scary is that the Duke and Durham community and the media for a large part are still willing to railroad the defendents, even when the weight of evidence clearly indicates that:
1.) the defendents are innocent - no DNA, timelines don't match, accuser lied on several occassions.
2.) the police work and subsequent identification prodedures were flawed.
3.) the DA participated in a criminal activity and continues to lie and misrepresent the facts.
4.) the Lab report was falsified.
5.) the DA has refused to take statements from witnesses. regarding the accusers statements about her true motivations.

No matter how damning the evidence is to the case, the Duke hierarchy, the group of 88, and the black community will disregard all facts opting instead to convict based on social, gender,racial, and class prejudice. I'm truly afraid these boys will be lynched and the NC State legal system, the DOJ and the NC Bar will stand by and watch.

Victim in Massachusetts said...

I am surprised that no one has talked about all of the out right death threats made to Reade Seligmann as he walked into court in May.

There are a ton of implied threats on the internet. This should scare anyone who gets arrested in Durham for B.B.W.V.D.

theman said...

Hobo, I post here because all of these perps want Nifong to get disbarred or worse. He is an honest and dedicated public servant. The people here seem to be brainwashed by the defense lawyers.

Anonymous said...

It seems that everything in this entire case is UPSIDE DOWN, inverted, backwards - take your pick.

-Those with the most 'authority' have been the most irresponsible.
- Nifong, the DPD, and the Duke Administration and “88” of its employees

-The most innocent have been the most punished. - the 3 guys, their families, Coach Pressler, the Lax Team, and yes; you, me, and anyone who has lost confidence in the legal system.

The "88" cry out on behalf of 'alleged injustice', yet are silent in the face of the ACTUAL injustice right under their nose.

Presumed innocence has mutated into 'presumed guilt'.

Where there is no evidence (her word) it is considered truth, and where there is evidence (DNA of all but the accused) it is considered a 'so what'.

How did we get here ? - That a dishonest DA needed a new angle to pump up his campaign is only a partial answer.

The answer lies deeper in the manure that allowed this to fester and take root – Durham’s racial tensions as propagated by those who gain by it – Nifong (obviously), certain Black Leaders, AA Studies Professors, and the class that needs to appease them for their own self aggrandizement – Brodhead being the figurehead.

Racial tension is a very real, sad, and unproductive issue – but I would argue that those mentioned above who have turned this sad story UPSIDE DOWN are the least likely to help resolve it –

Hopefully, an honest assessment of civil rights abuse will come out of this mess. Those never concerned with the abuse will now have some sense of it, and those of a class more readily subject to it will find a way to set aside their anger. Though it is a long shot – here exists the opportunity for REAL leaders to emerge to replace today’s pretenders.

-TW

Anonymous said...

The complaining witness in a criminal case is NOT the client of the prosecutor, so there is no attorney-client privilege that attaches to their communications. My understanding of NC law is that a prosecutor must turn over to the defense notes of conversations he or she has had with witnesses. The prosecutor is required to disclose facts told him by the witness; the prosecutor is not required to disclose his impressions or opinions of the witness, or other matters that could be considered work product (that is protected by a separate privilege, one that has nothing to do with the attorney-client privilege).

Anonymous said...

To Victim MA,5:10. That's exactly what we have a mob mentality supported by the fong. The NBPs called Seligman(I think?) a dead man walking to his face and threatened to kill him in court - yet the fong nor the judge did anything about it. In fact they let the NBP making the threats stay in the courtroom during the proceding. I think the group of 88 and the Duke faculty should be intellectually honest along with the people who are racially and politically motivated. They need to admit that they want to see these boys hang because they are part of the rich,elite white upper class. And all this time that's who I thought Duke wanted to attend their university, silly me.

theman said...

TW, your concerned about the civil rights of 3 kidnappers and rappist, is thet suppose to be some kind of joke.

Anonymous said...

The Man--or are you a just a eunuch looking for a d!ck?

If you had brains, you'd take them out and play with them.

Victim in Massachusetts said...

The only crime Collin, David and Reade comitted was,

BEING

BORN

WHITE

WHILE

VISITING

DURHAM

theman said...

5:42, with those kinds of comments, you are an intelligent midget. Your worse then the rest of the nuts posting here.

Anonymous said...

VIM--

lol lol

But that's the mentality of Durham and the African racists there who feed at the government teat from the cradle to the grave.

Bums and criminals!

bill anderson said...

Speaking of the Innocence Project, I have an article entitled: "An Open Letter to the Innocence Project" that will appear on Lewrockwell.com tomorrow.

Guess that is what one calls self-promotion, and ordinarily I don't do it, but the post regarding the Innocence Project was along the lines of what I am saying in the article.

Anonymous said...

The klanman has yet to accept my proposal. I told the man that if had someone ejaculate into his mouth, and had Meehan swab it for DNA, and it came up empty, we could take him seriously. I know he has been running tests but has not been kind enough to give us the results.

How about it theman. do you think there is any chance that if Ninfong ejaculated in your mouth, and we swabbed it right afterwards, we could not find Nifong DNA, because that is what all your babbling comes down to.

Time Will Tell said...

to 11:51 (poster who implied the officer who was with Precious might be involved)


If I recall correctly, Precious acted strange at Duke Hospital whenever a male officer was in the room. She kept changing her story whenever the officer was around.

Is 11:51 poster on to something???

Anonymous said...

To 6:17 poster there are similar post on the Friends of Duke University site.

Anonymous said...

does the 88 for academic welfare's letter constitute a hate crime?

lawyers?

jc

A lawyer said...

No

theman said...

We all need to stand behind the Group of 88 and congratulate them. Broodhead saying innocent is fine, why does everyone complain about him. These 3 are innocent until trial where they will be found guilty

Anonymous said...

instead of giving precious a polygraph test, why don't we give AAAS "professors" IQ tests?

Anonymous said...

To 7:00, we could but what would happen if their IQ's were low, they have tenure

Anonymous said...

JC---

Are you the author of post 4:15 to moi?

It sounds like you.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

The dumb Duke 88 are all in their late 50's or 60's.

Maybe a heart attack is on the horizon. I'm sure all of them pig out on greasy fatty food like chitlins. Let them be low IQ parasites for a little while longer.

Hehehe

Anonymous said...

theman is obviously african american because he can't make an intelligent argument and resorts to name calling and insults when asked to produce any credible evidence the alleged attack.

the sad part is that theman probably has a college degree and was probably awarded a scholorship.

theman, thanks for being an argument against affirmative action and giving proof that blacks are in fact inferior.

Anonymous said...

I bet the Denver Airport will not be turned into a ghetto because 5.000 people are stranded there for a few days. I think white people are tired of blacks not getting it - utilizing American dream to better themselves. 70% illigement birth rate - how can black women allow themselves to be used this way?

Anonymous said...

Therman is white. His ebonics is to contrived.

Concerned Texan said...

If Dante wrote his Inferno today, Nifong, Gotleib, Himan and Brodhead (yes Brodhead and a few of his yes-persons) would be characters at the lowest of levels.
- Nifong, Gotleib and Himan would probably be depicted as hanging from their tiny members over hot coals, with Nifong swinging from side to side reaching in vain for his $30 thousand dollars which is always just beyond his reach. Sadly, just within his grasp are documents to drop the Duke charges but he cannot see them since his gaze will only look at his money. Gotleib is being constantly tormented and poked by the tines of a pitch fork carried by a small Blue Devil. Himan is groping for his manliness which he lost while working under Nifong's guidance. Brodhead still has a chance to avoid a similar fate but much must first be done to correct his past cowardice.

Anonymous said...

We all saw the large dome where so many black congregated in New Orleans. We saw how they act and how they live.
So many there together as they were robbing, stealing, fighting, and raping each other.
Anyone says that blacks as a whole aren't way back on the evolution scale is not telling the truth.
There are exceptions of course, but very damned few.

Durham typifies what blacks are really like and how vengeful they are while living off taxpayers--mostly white.

theman said...

I hope I get picked for the rape jury. I will tell the lawyers what they want to hear and vote the way I feel

Victim in Massachusetts said...

That is exactly why there is a change of venue because of jerks like you.

Anonymous said...

The man-- Yea, uh-huh.

Anonymous said...

sorry I ment a change of venue motion

theman said...

VIM, jerks like me, I am the only reasonable one on this site, maybe a couple more, but the moderator pulls their post down, you just don't want to hear it.

Anonymous said...

Maybe theman is OJ. It may explain the belief that DNA equals innocence and the lack of DNA implies guilt?

Anonymous said...

Ho Ho Ho Ho !

Oh, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, Mikey Nifong

Where you been, ole boy?

You been gone too long

Mikey Nifong.


We gonna sing a wailin' country song for Mikey Nifong. Yea, baby.


(Or have you a hankerin' for the blues?)

Them blues done got ahold of Mikey Nifong.

------Oh when his rape case left him

-------He had no place to dwell

-------So he moved in with Duke's 88

-------At heartbreak hotel

(he be so lonely, baby, he be so lonely he could cry)


Mikey Nifong needs some comfort. Where is his Precious friend?

theman said...

Mike Nifong is probably going to go down, as one of the best DA's this country has ever seen. You people here hate one of the greatest DA's in the countyr

Anonymous said...

As a white male who is a conservative-moderate, I am appalled and deeply saddened by some of the blatant racism exhibited by a small percentage of the posters on this Board. This unintelligent racism merely serves to help those who still are seeking to continue the Hoax - as it allows people to try and dismiss the supporters of the LAX 3 as racist hate mongers. Those who contribute such drivel are no better and perhaps worse than those expounding the reverse racism that has so driven the Hoax.

Race, class and gender bias, as well as short-sighted political gain, have driven this horrible travesty. Yes, these issues must be discussed and confronted, but the answer is not to respond with hate and continuous trumping of the racist cards. That is unfair to Reade, Collin and David, who should be the primary concern. I fully agree that we need to move beyond what I regard as absurd political correctness, which is just another form of tyranny. But to move beyond means to discuss the underlying issues in good faith and not to respond with race hate.

Martin Luther King Jr. once said something to the effect "that we must all learn to to live together as brothers and sisters or perish separately as fools" (sorry I do not recall the exact quote). That sentiment remains imperative today and is applicable to everyone regardless of their background - you don't get a pass because you're black, nor do you get a pass because you're white and you have confronted reverse racism.

Anonymous said...

PLEASE PLEASE ignore theman and do not fall for his troll like behavior. If he was serious and acting in good faith he would constructively debate the issues with supporting data and information. Instead all he does is make pronouncements aimed to stir things up - TROLL. best ignored

Anonymous said...

Most everyone can agree with what you have said, however, there is a thin line between all those niceties and just ignoring the blatant words and deeds of the whole town of African racists in Durham who are working to destroy the very lives of three innocent men.

Save the kum-ba-ya for the campfire.

This is WAR to get Nifong put into prison and to free 3 innocent men.

DO the Martin Luther King spiel later.

Anonymous said...

To 8:21

If it it is war, and we were to rely on your tactics, the war would be lost and the biggest losers would be Reade, Collin and David. You show yourself to be no better than the black racists in Durham.

theman said...

Wow, I can't believe that you all don't believe in a elected DA who is trying to convict 3 kidnappers and rappist. I can agree that they deserve their day in court in Durham, NC where this crime was comitted

Anonymous said...

8:21---Yea, yea, yea.

What have you done for these three guys but blow self-righteous smoke on the internet?

If we all took your lead, these men would still be awaiting a trial without anyone knowing about the criminal acts of Nifong, the 88, the Black Panthers who threatened to kill Seligmann, black elected leaders who are complicit with Nifong, and countless others.

What have YOU done of any substance except play the role of Priest on this thread?

Who gives an F if someone is offended? Three men could have gone to prison for decades because of these vengeful animals!

Stuff it!

hobo said...

Hey, theman is right on here, why can't the rest of you see that.

hobo said...

8:36, what exactly is wrong with the Black Panthers, they are for law and order. These guys broke the law now they need some order.

Anonymous said...

To 8:09 as far as your MLK quote, It's more like he said something to the effect "that we must all learn to sleep together with our btothers' wives and sisters or perish separately as fools". At least thats the way Ralph Abernathy and Jesse Jackson tell it....

Concerned Texan said...

To KC:

No one has pursued the truth of this case like you have. For this my family and I will be eternally thankful.

Anonymous said...

8:09

"live together"?

this is the bottom line, dear:

blacks, on average, are totally dependent on european americans for everything

we don't need them--they need us

let them congregate by themselves and enjoy the show

Anonymous said...

theman says:


Wow, I can't believe that you all don't believe in a elected DA who is trying to convict 3 kidnappers and rappist.


You've elevated them to the status of white Rap stars now, have you.

Or, are you pissed that they had the temerity to steal the black man's art?

Anonymous said...

8:46pm--lol
Jesse Jackson sure is an expert on keeping those buns in the oven
Remember when he went to the White House during the Monica Lewinsky--Willie Clinton affair to "counsel" Chelsea?
I guess ole Jesse needed to tell Chelsea to get used to her daddy screwing around. And Jesse took along with him his black ho who he knocked up.
This is how these people live. They have no concept of civilized behavior, and if anyone questions them, they are racists. lol

hobo said...

8:52, you are one of the white racist on this board, at least the other white people hide it a lot better then you do. You are a disgusting racist, blacks in your opinion are guilty of everything.

Concerned Texan said...

I think we need to raise the level of this discussion. This is serious stuff, not a playground name calling fest. Three human beings have been falsly accused by a very troubled woman and desperate DA. Groveling in the mud over skin color differences is a waste of precious brain power. It is your choice whether you want to be a slug or poet, but if you choose the former, please find another chat room.

AMac said...

Readers new to the D-i-W comments --

Please be aware that the 'regular' readers and commenters of this blog are not responding to the racist contributions of various stripes and the other trollish jibes on offer here.

It's unfortunate when people with lowbrow agendas hijack a thread like this, but it happens sometimes.

Victim in Massachusetts said...

Thank You 9:01 going at each other like this does nothing to help Collin,David & Reade.

Anonymous said...

8:26--the 8:36 post was for you, not 8:12. My mistake.

Anonymous said...

Excellent piece KC -- do you suppose Nifong will be forced to run the multiple non-LAX DNA samples against the national crime database? Maybe 5 or 7 non-LAX'ers crashed that party at 610....

Should DNA Security be able to tell if those non-matches are from white contributors??

Anonymous said...

The great race relations sage Michael Irvin, formerly of the Dallas Cowboys, now of ESPN, offers his two cents on the hoax, as if anyone cares. His stupid and ill-informed opinions about the case are pretty much what you would expect from a sheltered celebrity millionaire. I guess no one told him that coke ruins your ability to think straight.

Anonymous said...

to 809: Thank you for your post. I too am distressed by the racist ranting.

theman said...

I just don't understand why everyone here puts down an honorable man like Mike. He has a job to do and he is doing it. You probably all wish you had a DA, with the same qualities as Nifong, you crime rate would drop. Nifong is a hero here in Durham and should get an award for what hi is standing up too.

Anonymous said...

To Bill Anderson - FYI, the following an exerpt from the May 13 ABC News article on the DNASI:

Experts say that the absence of conclusive DNA evidence would not necessarily be a fatal blow to the prosecution's case. They cite a figure stating that 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions do not involve forensic evidence such as DNA.

"The truth is if you speak to crime lab directors, they will tell you that in only a relatively small number of cases is there any DNA evidence," said Peter Neufeld, co-founder and co-director of the Innocence Project, which uses DNA to free people wrongly imprisoned. "In rape cases, there is an expectation of DNA. But like many expectations, often it is misplaced."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=1958031&page=1

Anonymous said...

9:20-- You and some others are sick and deluded people. Just look at the above cited article and read what Michael Irvin was saying about this lacrosse case.
You do no one any good by keeping your head in the sand. Some of us have bent over backward in our lives for good race relations. Some of us held no ill will for black people at all--until we were hit up beside the head by the uncivilized element in the black community whom we unwittingly have been "communing" with forever.
Some of you who are so "offended" by this probably have never had a personal experience with anyone outside your closed environment or never had a serious relationship with anyone of another race. So you can spout this meaningless bullsh!t.
The truth is that the lacrosse case has brought out in front of the entire country what we are dealing with regarding the black community.

I say f**k 'em. No human will take down these 3 innocent men or anyone like them. I would be saying the same thing if they were innocent black men, but African racists and career whiners cannot further their agenda without their bullsh!t victimhood hoax.
I say--enough! F**k 'em.

Anonymous said...

Will the City be sending out a news release regarding the misleading information circulated by the DA's office, DPD and its DNA contractor to the citizens of Durham, the USA and beyond?

From the City Of Durham, NC websitie http://www.durhamnc.gov/news/
Thursday, November 16, 2006

Misleading Information Being Circulated to Southwest Durham Residents
Concerned Residents Urged to Contact N.C. Attorney General's Office

It has come to the attention of the City and County of Durham that many residents in the Kentington Heights neighborhood (Massey Chapel Road area) in southwestern Durham have recently received a letter regarding selling their property to a developer. The letter threatens that if they do not sell their property to the developer, the City or the County of Durham could proceed with eminent domain and could take the "entire development for the public good." The letter goes on to state that residents will receive much less money through eminent domain than they would receive from the developer for the property.

Neither the City nor the County have plans to exercise eminent domain in this area. According to County Attorney Chuck Kitchen, under North Carolina law eminent domain cannot be used in this manner.

Any residents of the Kentington Heights neighborhood who have received the letter are urged to call the North Carolina Attorney General's Office at 877-5-NO-SCAM with concerns.

# # #

Good Things Are Happening In Durham
Published: 11/16/206 - Last Edited: 12/11/2006

Anonymous said...

Let me have a do over on my 9:31 PM comment.

To Bill Anderson - FYI, the following is an exerpt from the May 13 ABC News article on the DNASI report:

Experts say that the absence of conclusive DNA evidence would not necessarily be a fatal blow to the prosecution's case. They cite a figure stating that 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions do not involve forensic evidence such as DNA.

"The truth is if you speak to crime lab directors, they will tell you that in only a relatively small number of cases is there any DNA evidence," said Peter Neufeld, co-founder and co-director of the Innocence Project, which uses DNA to free people wrongly imprisoned. "In rape cases, there is an expectation of DNA. But like many expectations, often it is misplaced."


http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=1958031&page=1

theman said...

To 9:34, what do you mean "some of you" there it goes again. More racist remarks against our sister, that was rapped and piliged by these rich guys from Duke. You should be ashamed of yourself.

bill anderson said...

Neufeld's comments are misleading. Indeed, if a woman reports a rape several days after the event, none of the DNA is considered scientifically reliable. Thus, police and prosecutors rely on testimony and other factors.

I must add, however, that in the Duke case the factors are quite different:

1. The alleged rape was reported soon after the party, so police could treat CGM's body as a "crime scene;"
2. Reliable DNA samples were able to be taken from the woman;
3. Other physical factors either were not there, or there is another explanation. For example, the "edema" issue also can be explained by the (a) vibrator she used that day, and (b) by the other men with whom she had sex.

In other words, this was a case in which had there been a rape, there would have been DNA of the lacrosse players. Nifong and others are not presenting an accurate picture, and the press either is too stupid or too craven to understand the difference between the actual scenario and the scenario that relates to the Neufeld quotes.

By the way, I use the Neufeld quote in my article that will appear on Lew Rockwell's page on Friday.

What is so disturbing about this case is that the basic standards of proof and science simply are being ignored because of the politics of race. Blacks have to understand that because black males are accused of rape more often than white males, if this case is permitted to continue, more black males will be wrongfully convicted.

Ironically, I would say there is a chance that some of the black men who now are demanding a rape conviction in the future may well be in the dock facing their own wrongful accusation. However, because of what the blacks in Durham are demanding, the prospects of more wrongful convictions of blacks are a greater reality.

Anonymous said...

to 8:09:

i am one of the racists on this board. this case has been driven by race, and its time that people like you realize it. the black leadership in durham (and nationally for that matter) do not believe in fairness or justice. they believe in the subjugation of whites to blacks. if this case and oj haven't taught you that yet, i wish you luck. you'll need it.

but what bearing do my views about race have on the evidence (or more properly, the lack of it) that a rape occurred? None.

if you're blind to the broader issues of this case, that's your problem. but you should confine your comments then to the facts of the case (i'm speaking of the one against the lax players, not the one that will be coming against nifong).

ps: we lived fine separtely for a couple of hundred years. so, i disagree with the mlk quote, though i know to people like you that is like disagreeing with God himself.

Anonymous said...

Prof Anderson:

With all due respect you miss the point here. No more black males face the probability of conviction because the dna is being ignored.

The black view of this is, "its racist if you use dna against blacks" and "its racist if you use dna to exonerate whites." That's it period. in the black mind, they win both ways. OJ on the one hand and lax on the other - these are the applicable examples.

You're more accurate when you call this a show trial. Evidence is conveniently used or ignored to further an agenda or to promote the interests of blacks over whites.

You're dreaming if you think this has a negative impact on black defendants.

WINDBAG

bill anderson said...

Ours is a system that relies on precedence. Believe me, if Nifong continues to get away with this nonsense, both whites and blacks will pay.

Prosecutors across the country are an increasingly dishonest bunch. Look at Nancy Grace, for example. She used to cheat when she was a prosecutor, even when she had slam-dunk cases. Why? Because she could, that's why.

Most likely, prosecutors across the country are looking at Nifong rather enviously, saying something like: "I wish I could get away with something like this."

Black males are more likely to deal with the justice system than whites, and one would think that they would care more about abuses in the system. Guess I was wrong.

Of course, on the other side, there are people like Thomas Sowell and James Coleman who have stood up to Nifong and have hammered him from the start. But the NAACP has been craven since the beginning, unfortunately.

Anonymous said...

Prof Anderson:

I agree with you 100% that prosecutors are a crooked bunch, and you have really skewered the prosecutors in NC (good job!!!), but i think the DOJ would have acted from more quickly if these defendants had been black. jackson and sharpton would have demanded it and they wouldn't have stopped until they got the fed's intervention.

just have a look at ny today. they were protesting that "victim" who rammed his car into the undercover police car time and again.

WINDBAG

Anonymous said...

Windbag has a more realistic take on this situation. Many still cannot bring themselves to tell the truth about how we all have to continually make allowances for blacks in almost every walk of life.

How can anyone talk about being "equal" when they live life only to be given special treatment? And all the time?

Truth is that blacks commit most of the crime and they only make up about 13 % of the population. All these people who are afraid to tell the truth are hiding the fact that they are afraid.

That helps no one.

Anonymous said...

1.All the white racists chiming in on this thread is ample proof of how racist the duke 3's supporters are.

2.What irvin said is what a lot of blacks think: that the stripper and Nifong are being vilified but the duke 3 and the rest of the lacrosse team are being given a pass and are being called "innocent" and "fine young men", "heroes" and THEIR poor behavior is ok(please note that the poor behavior is not a matter of opinion as another WHITE man, bissey, corroborated their comments and they were ALREADY on social probation for other offenses from their coach and the team had a high disciplinary rate both criminally and in the Duke system). That fact is percieved as evidence of racism and that is why a lot of the durham blacks have tuned the defense team out from the beginning. they intrepret every defense utterance as spin and an apologia for racist thugs and have done so ever since evans was declaiming on the courthouse steps calling the team whose behavior was reprehensible, "heroes"!

3.and for those posters calling blacks animals, the Lax team acted like animals. Animals piss on things, attack other people in a mob and run like cockroaches when the police come

4.for the posters saying blacks have contributed nothing to arts and sciences--blacks have created most of the popular music created in America--Jazz, r and B, rock nd roll and rap. Dance forms of jazz, tap and were big contributors to modern dance as well. Black scientists invented blood typing and plasma storage, peanut butter and peanut oil, the traffic light and many other inventions. Those saying this are ignorant and definitely low IQ!

Anonymous said...

the duke lacrosse case is just another example of black-on-white crime--precious is an animal

n0, it's not "racist" to point out that blacks would be better off back in sub-saharan africa

that way they won't need affirmative action, welfare, etc--if they get hungry, they can always revert to cannibalism

Anonymous said...

"they intrepret every defense utterance as spin and an apologia for racist thugs"

Meanwhile, closer to the action:
1) Their black teammate says they are not racists and are like "brothers" to him.
2) Prof. Coleman, a AA Duke Law prof, denounces any suggestion that they are racists based on his committees in-depth study of the lax team.
3) The other stripper Kim, also an AA, says the language didn't get ugly until one player, not one of the accused, reacted to her "limp d*** white boys" slur.

Folks, once a suggestion of racism is made, nothing else matters.

Anonymous said...

can we stop with the antiblack posts?

OK, the accuser is black and Duke, like all elite schools, gives such preference to blacks it's like they attend a different university

can we leave it at that?

jeez

jc

Anonymous said...

1:30 a.m.

As to your #2 -- the charges in this case are RAPE & Kidnapping. Yes, Nifong and the 'stripper' are being vilified because these charges are demonstrably false.

The "Duke 3" and the rest of the LAX took responsibility and apologized for their actions on 3/13 & 3/14 which no one denies were stupid and illegal (underage drinking, etc.). They were punished by Duke for these offenses -- the LAX season was cancelled & several were kicked out of school. DPD have gone out of their way to charge, prosecute and convict Duke students for these types of violations (while letting others in the community get away with the same offenses or worse) Gottlieb in particular. I haven't seen anyone calling these young me "heroes".

Your comments mirror those of Brodhead -- well if they didn't commit RAPE, what they did do was bad enough.

Give me a break, underage drinking, peeing in public, noise... those offenses were bad enough for what they are currently going through?? If you (and the blacks in Durham) really believe this, I hope one day you (they) are falsely accused and have to pay (emotionally and financially) to defend yourself from the false charges.

I really don't wish this on anyone -- but, if blacks feel justified somehow, in tuning out the defense because they consider it 'spin' and believe this case should go to court and these defendants s/b convicted when they're admittedly only paying attention to one side of the case; WHY, in the future, when an AA is falsely charged would these same blacks expect any white person to listen to their alibis, their defense - whites should consider their defense, just spin?

Anonymous said...

To 1:30,
The defense team has competely opened up the evidence/discovery file to a number of people. This discovery came from Mr. Nifong. There is no "spin" to it. Much of it has been released to the public. No one who has examined it believes there is a case against the defendants.
A lot of ugly comments have been made about the defendants as part of the LAX team. Of all people you should understand that it is wrong to exaggerate the misdeeds of a group as a whole, and then use them to vilify individual members of the group suggesting these people must be guilty of kidnapping and rape because of the underage drinking (and offenses that go along with it) of the larger group. I believe this is called "prejudice"--"an opinion formed before the facts are known; preconceived, usually unfavorable, idea. 2. an opinion held in disregard of facts that contradict it; unreasonable bias." The "facts" here are in the evidence. What you, like many before you, have done is ignore the evidence and given in to your prejudices...a human failing no doubt, but, as we have seen over many centuries, something we all need to work diligently to eradicate.

Observer

Anonymous said...

The definition is from Webster's.

Observer

Anonymous said...

In response to 1:30am--- it is you and your ilk who have been spinning this case to your own benefit. Like many, I heard Nifong proclaim them "hooligans" and he said he had a very clear case of rape and that he had the proof.

No one thought about going after the accuser at all. Mike Nifong made this a RACE CASE and you loved it! You are exactly like the Duke 88 who live off the RACE ISSUE while contributing little, and then try to blame white people when your snotty noses start running.

How does it feel to continue to bleed the past--your own ancestors who really did suffer--and use them to become lifelong parasites on society? No one wants to have negativity over this, but it is black people who mill about the streets just looking for some reason to riot and scream about something so that they can get a financial windfall--bleeding and bleeding the RACE ISSUE.

Well, I'll tell you one thing, most of us are just sick of it and will not let this kind of extortion continue. YOU and NIFONG picked the wrong case in order to screw some white people.

JUSTICE will be done.

Sure, blacks have contributed to society, but not on any substantive scale. Work on it. Instead of using the RACE ISSUE as a free ride.

Like Middle Eastern Arabs who have a long and productive history---centuries ago. The Pyramids of Giza are amazing, but this is the 21st century and they are still back in the 12th century.

Blacks in this country are similar in their lack of productivity. If you see footage from the Middle East, they are just milling about in the streets ready to riot and flip their tongues in and out of their mouths to make animal sounds---cursing Americans.

They have time to riot because they don't work very much. Just always ready for a riot.

Much like blacks in America.

Yeah, blacks have most certainly contributed-----but what have they done for this country lately?

Most of us are tired of their way of life and won't continue to subsidize it.

Anonymous said...

for a scholarly tratment of blacks' meager contribution to civilization, read charles murray's "human accomplishment"

Anonymous said...

Actually, I have been willing to subsidize them my whole adult life - just to keep them quiet and some sense of mistaken white guilt(my family came here from Ireland in the 1880s). I doult we can get away from supporting them, but no more PC. I do not hate or dislike these people - tired of their inability to take care of themselves.

Anonymous said...

Calling racists does not work anymore. The death of PC is one of the only positive things to come out of this mess. I would quess that hiring black strippers (Yes-strippers not exotic dancers) is way down or certainly should be.

Anonymous said...

11:56-- The lacrosse players didn't hire black strippers. They wanted white or Hispanic women.

Arguments took place and these ho's got revenge in the way they did. You are right. This case has done wonders to STOP PC in this country.

Anonymous said...

You-Tube Video: Duke Lacrosse - LAST STAND
Willie Nelson song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFVvCpgH4CQ&mode=related&search=


You-Tube Video: SNL Nancy Grace - Duke Lacrosse
Holiday Message from Nancy Grace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YycOd4dJd40&mode=related&search=

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