Friday, January 12, 2007

Coleman Reaction

Duke law professor James Coleman--the voice of moral clarity throughout this affair--commented on the latest developments to both the N&O and the Chronicle.

In the N&O, Coleman suggested that the time might have come to open a criminal inquiry into Nifong's behavior, and asked, "Who would believe that a witness, nine months later, suddenly recalls facts that coincidentally negate evidence produced by the defense?"

Quite correctly, he added, "These people are almost criminal. It's making a mockery of the system. It's like Nifong is mooning the system. It's contemptuous."

In the Chronicle, Coleman noted, "It's extraordinary that a witness testimony changed so drastically nine months after the incident. A jury would find it hard to believe her. That's just not credible. It's like the end of a bad mystery novel where all the ends are tied up."

Other members of the law faculty appear to agree. In his strongest comments on the case to date, Paul Haagen asked, "Does this case look like it's moving toward an implosion?" His answer: "Yes, it is moving toward that." And Thomas Metzloff added that the dropping of the rape charge seems like a tactical move, rather than one based on pursuit of justice. "Did something really change two weeks ago, or was [Nifong] feeling the heat from the DNA hearing?" Metzloff's answer: "He did it to protect himself."

166 comments:

Anonymous said...

I would love to know if Nifong's started hiding assets in preparation of the civil trial.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't matter. There is a 36 month look back to any asset transfer in civil cases with monetary payout.

Michael said...

It's interesting that his
letter or article mentions Paul Haagen and Thomas Metzloff. I wonder if there's
some implicit depiction that
there are more working in
support of the Duke 3 in the
Duke Law School.

I'm glad to see folks coming out with strong language on Nifong. Especially from someone like Coleman. Now if only Wendy and Nancy could see things realistically and pile on too.

Anonymous said...

Are any other ADAs officially listed on the case with Nifong?

duke09parent said...

"Nifong is mooning the system"

I love it. Whodathunk a law professor with a sense of humor along with brave and accurate analysis?

wayne fontes said...

Why haven't the city and county moved to dismiss the charges. It would seem to me the longer this goes on the greater their liability.

bill anderson said...

The governmental leaders of Durham, as well as the NAACP, are holding out for a possible conviction, if they can get a Durham jury. These are craven people, all of them.

Anonymous said...

Wayne,
The only person who can dismiss it is Nifungu until the Feb 5 hearing at that time the Judge can dismiss it.
Kemp

Anonymous said...

Feb 5 the case gets dismissed.

Then Nifong is done for. The bar will file more charges

Anonymous said...

The 3 families have several theories under both state and Federal law under which they could seek to hold Mr. Nifong personally liable for his actions. Two spring immediately to my mind. First, Federal civil rights law provides:

"Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, ... " [42 USC 1983]

Second, many states (I haven't specifically checked NC) recognize a tort of malicious prosecution. Malicious prosecution is summaried as follows:

"An action for damages brought by one against whom a civil suit or criminal proceeding has been unsuccessfully commenced without probable cause and for a purpose other than that of bringing the alleged offender to justice.

"An action for malicious prosecution is the remedy for baseless and malicious litigation. It is not limited to criminal prosecutions, but may be brought in response to any baseless and malicious litigation or prosecution, whether criminal or civil. The criminal defendant or civil respondent in a baseless and malicious case may later file this claim in civil court against the parties who took an active role in initiating or encouraging the original case. The defendant in the initial case becomes the plaintiff in the malicious prosecution suit, and the plaintiff or prosecutor in the original case becomes the defendant. In most states the claim must be filed within a year after the end of the original case.

"A claim of malicious prosecution is a tort action. A tort action is filed in civil court to recover money damages for certain harm suffered. The plaintiff in a malicious prosecution suit seeks to win money from the respondent as recompense for the various costs associated with having to defend against the baseless and vexatious case.

"The public policy that supports the action for malicious prosecution is the discouragement of vexatious litigation. This policy must compete against one that favors the freedom of law enforcement officers, judicial officers, and private citizens to participate and assist in the administration of justice.

* * *

"Elements of Proof

To win a suit for malicious prosecution, the plaintiff must prove four elements: (1) that the original case was terminated in favor of the plaintiff, (2) that the defendant played an active role in the original case, (3) that the defendant did not have probable cause or reasonable grounds to support the original case, and (4) that the defendant initiated or continued the initial case with an improper purpose. ..."

[http://www.answers.com/topic/malicious-prosecution]

The upshot of this is that, not only is Mr. Nifong's law license at risk, so are his personal assets.

Anonymous said...

It is sad state of affairs that dubious organizations, such as NAACP and ACLU are taken seriously. They treat people differently because of their race and gender. MLK would be ashamed of them and yet these people try to take the moral high ground.

Let's face it: NAACP, ACLU and so called civil rights movements today are just a bunch of racists who wants to make a good living.

This has been a truly bizarre episode.

Anonymous said...

Whom do we think will have the dubious distinction of playing the "Fongster" in the forthcoming movie based on Prof. Johnson's (and Stuart Taylor) forthcoming book?

Anonymous said...

Brian Dennehy as Mike Nifong.

balding.lawyer said...

The usual issues at a motion to suppress identification are the opportunity of the witness to view the suspect (lighting, distance from the suspect, duration of the view, etc.) So, in this case, the February hearing should present nearly the same issues and problems as the trial. Given the facts of the irreconcilable statements and the rigged lineup, with its numerous attendant problems, I cannot see how the hearing can be other than a disaster for the state.

At the hearing, there is one huge advantage for the defense they will not have at the trial. The complainant being young and black, and the defense lawyers being middle-aged white men, they will have to be careful at the trial that they do not beat her up as much as is justified. However, at the suppression hearing, there is no jury, and the complainant is fair game. They can test not only her ability to explain away discrepancies but also how easily she loses her temper or starts to cry.

Her testimony at this hearing can be used to cross-examine her at a later trial.

Anonymous said...

Well at least 60 minutes on Sunday will have a lot of material to pick from.

Anonymous said...

Prof. Coleman should have the honor of playing himself (if he wants to).

GPrestonian said...

"Nifong is mooning the system"


I just submitted that to Baldo as a potential topic for a cartoon on LS.

Anonymous said...

Not Brian Dennehy as Nifong. Dennehy is too sympathetic (and not nearly ugly enough) to play Nifong realistically. We need somebody really creepy and villianous -- somebody like James Wood, maybe (although he'd have to gain 60 or 70 pounds for the role).

Anonymous said...

Coleman / Duke once again late to the party .

Only question that counts :

Had this been the basketball team , would Brodhead and Steele have fire Coach K and cancelled the season ?


KC ?

Anonymous said...

It is good to see more law professors speaking out, but they should be doing so without the need for a reporter's questions (that does not go for Coleman since he has spoken out for a long time).

Why in the world are so many professors from Duke School of Law remaining silent? From my experience at The University of Texas School of Law, most of the law professors probably do not think of "the Law School" as part of Duke University, but it is! This mess is occurring in their own house. You would think that the law professors would feel some sense of duty to students at the professors' own school, even if the students do not attend their hallowed "Law School."

What about the law professors who teach legal ethics? Where are they? Maybe they are hoping for a lucrative gig as an "expert" in some upcoming trial of Nifong, either on behalf of Nifong or on behalf of a plaintiff.

What about all the law professors who no doubt sanctimoniously tell their students that lawyers have an obligation to improve the legal system? Where in the hell are they? They need to be shamed into speaking up. But maybe they have no shame, like Michael Tigar who said he was "at an age where I get to pick my clients and causes."

Again judging from my experience at The University of Texas School of Law, most of the Duke law professors are probably as eaten up with race/class/gender political correctness as the Group of 88. Their fear of being seen as politically incorrect by their left-leaning friends (heaven forbid that they might not get some dinner party invitation) far outweighs any duty they see themselves as having to anyone or any principle. Disgusting!

KC Johnson said...

Coleman certainly can't be described as late to the party--he's been front and center almost from the start.

On Duke, of course--it's hard to believe if this had happened to the b-ball team, the reaction would have been the same.

Anonymous said...

Reading the tortured motion describing who was on top, who was behind, who was in front, etc. made me think she was actually describing a real event, but one which may have happened at an earlier time and place... like a paid stag party ("he was getting married") where 4 or 5 men might have left behind DNA in her various front, back and oral cavities????? That could explain a lot. Matt, Bret, Adam...maybe those weren't false names after all. And "they" certainly wouldn't come forward now!

Bob Loblaw said...

Dennehy? Are you kidding? He not only has too much integrity, he has obvious strength of character that would come through in any role, and that would not be an accurate portrayal of Nifong.

While James Wood has the creep factor, there needs to be a bullying, piggish side that he doesn't have.

I am thinking the actor who plays Newman on Seinfeld, although I think Ned Beatty could pull it off.

Jerri Lynn Ward, J.D. said...

"Brian Dennehy as Mike Nifong."

I think that Brian Dennehy (sp?) should play a defense lawyer. He's too imposing to play a weasel.

William H. Macey is very good in roles involving craven, cowardly and incompetent nincompoops attempting to extricate themselves from disastors of their own making. See his work in Fargo.

Anonymous said...

it's definitely Wayne Knight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Knight

Anonymous said...

Check this out from today's N&O - "Venom has aftereffects at Duke"
http://www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/531577.html

Karla Holloway, an English professor and former dean, said she could no longer work on the committees in good faith considering the university's recent invitation to accused players Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty to return as students in good standing. Former player David Evans has graduated.

Holloway said her protest was not aimed at the students but at what she said was Duke's abandonment of normal procedures.

"The decision by the university to readmit the students, especially just before a critical judicial decision on the case, is a clear use of corporate power, and a breach, I think, of ethical citizenship," she wrote to Duke's black faculty caucus. "Despite our judgments about the prosecutor's own lack of principled conduct, it is not ours to become the judge or subvert the process."

hman said...

There is something that strikes me as especially strange about this latest "interview" with the accuser. She says now that a towel was used to wipe DNA "evidence" off her body and off other bodies. As everyone knows, the right technical phrase to describe what would have happened if that had been attempted is "Spread evidence everywhere." Presumably, Nifong and his henchmen understand this also. Yet we are led to believe that the rape charges were dropped because Nifong needed a way to solve the problem of no DNA. (Because objects other-than-penises- don't ejaculate).
But the new story details ejaculation all over her plus penetration with various might-not-be penis objects.
It looks to me that the conspirators within the DAs office continue to exhibit a sense of tactics that is breath-takingly short sighted.
I mean, retracting the rape claim does NOT make the DNA problem go away. That is, unless someone thinks that smearing it everywhere makes it go away.
I have heard that investigators love finding drinking cups because they are always covered with super abundant amounts of DNA evidence.

GPrestonian said...

Gotta have a role for Steve Buscemi in there somewhere...

bill anderson said...

Re: William Macy playing Fong.

I cannot imagine the Fong speaking Minnesotan.

Anonymous said...

re 11:30
Rest assured that the high-powered firms handling the defense will have a "sweet" female AA attorney doing the questioning of the AV.
It will not be necessary to have an aggressive senior partner brutally crush her testimony. A simple, gentle recapitulation of all of the AV's own statements would have the proper affect and not alienate the jury.

I suspect that defense strategy will be to paint the AV as a foolish semi-innocent being manipulated by the cruel DA - the potential jury pool is conflicted enough by the public embarrasment of Durham to buy into that.

Anonymous said...

11:20
"Whom do we think will have the dubious distinction of playing the "Fongster" in the forthcoming movie based on Prof. Johnson's (and Stuart Taylor) forthcoming book?"

Only one possible candidate... Pee Wee Herman

Anonymous said...

Memorable Quotes from
Fargo (1996)
Jerry Lundegaard: Now we had a deal. A deal's a deal.
Carl Showalter: Is it, Jerry? Why don't you ask those three poor souls in Brainerd if a deal's a deal. Go ahead, ask them!
Jerry Lundegaard: The heck do ya mean?
Carl Showalter: [mimicking] "The heckya mean?"

Anonymous said...

sorry, that should have been "proper effect", not "proper affect," although the latter may be strangely appropriate.

Jerri Lynn Ward, J.D. said...

Bill Anderson,

Guess what. William H. Macey according to what Wikipedia says grew up in Georgia and Maryland. I'm sure he could resurrect a Georgia accent.

You should hear me talk West Texan when I want to, and I haven't lived out in West Texas for 20 years!

Anonymous said...

Their was some interesting commentary at www.thedevilsden.com last week regarding the scenario of "If this was the basketball team." Well, several Duke alums and current students unethically pointed out that basketball is a revenue generating sport for Duke and Lacrosse is not. Therefore, they are held to different standards. Sad but true. At least those folks admitted that.

bill anderson said...

Jerri Lynn,

Believe it or not, I live in Macy's hometown, Cumberland, Maryland. (He was graduated from Allegany County High School in Cumberland, ya sure.)

So, yes, it could be possible. But who plays the role of Cash Michaels? And who would be Bob Ashley and Richard Brodhead? The potential casting problems make me dizzy!

Anonymous said...

Off the thread, I just attempted to get Wilson's email address at his "Spokesman Quartet" website. It looks like all of his contact information has been removed.

If he truly is a Christian, he seems to be of the Judas denomination. I imagine he has gotten sick of emails mentioning that.

It does indeed look as if he has suborned perjury. Could he really be stupid enough to think it was not going to be noticed in this environment? His casual comfort with the accuser's plastic story should make everyone wonder about every other case he has ever worked on.

Nifong, Wilson, and possibly their assistants deserve prison.

Anonymous said...

I have no reason to believe that the current story of the incident was not made up by Nifong and Linwood. They have lied from the beginning - no one including her family have seen Crystal since April - Is this woman a prisoner?
Can onyone tract her down?

Anonymous said...

bob ashley played by Michael Jeter
richard brodhead played by James Cromwell

Anonymous said...

KC said :

" Coleman certainly can't be described as late to the party--he's been front and center almost from the start.

On Duke, of course--it's hard to believe if this had happened to the b-ball team, the reaction would have been the same. "

You make it sound like Coleman and Duke are separate entities . Hard to believe ? How hard ? I'd suggest about as hard as the strippers story .

He ( Coleman) did not step up and confront Brodhead and Steele with the truth of their decision to fire the Coach and cancel the season . No , he became a willing tool in the deception .

Tell us why he did not demand administrative integrity and confront his boss with the truth ( basketball team ) when it could have mattered ?

That's what I mean by " late to the party" .

Anonymous said...

Will Smith could wear his fat suit - or better yet Steve Martin could wear his and we could have a white Cash. Cash has been quiet lately. Between living in Cary and being to cute by half, he has blown his cover.

Anonymous said...

OMG!

You fail to show up at KC's place for just a day and you come back to find pages and pages of info and countless posts.

About the N&O article cited above: I am livid! This is now beyond mention. Someone...soon.....must come in and clear out this gruesome situation.

Has everyone gone insane? Why are those in the law profession.....in the justice system of NC.....etc.....allowing this ghastly episode to continue for even one more day?

I'm just astounded by the effing craziness of this freak--Crystal Gail Mangum.

And If Mike Nifong isn't jailed for this, everyone of us must not rest until he is brought to justice on the public podium.....so that his remaining days on this earth are excruciating----financially and otherwise.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Linwood Wilson may be in trouble over the Dec statement. He made a point of showing her the picture at 12:30 where she said she wss going into the house. She had only one shoe on, and blow ups of the picture ( if I recall correctly) shows that her paste on nails are missing. He knew she was leaving and allow the statement to stand.

What jury is going to believe that a trained investigator would not follow that up with more questions. They will reasonably conclude that he was helping her make up a new story.

Wilson also claims the the DR who own the strip club did not call to change his story. To say that the accuser was dancing at the club. The DR said he did and has phone records of the call.

Nifong will still be able to say, the DPD, Meehan, the accuser, and Wilson all lied to me.

Wilson has screwed himself. Active and overt acts to help frame 3 people.

GPrestonian said...

12:10 Anon & others:

"It does indeed look as if he has suborned perjury. "

Unless I'm mistaken, Nigong, Wilson, et al have done nothing with this new story (yet) except drop the rape charges. So talk of 'suborning perjury' is over the top.

That's not to say that now having this 'new information' showing Crystal's unreliability [OK, I'm playing along with their game here] that defendant Nifong shouldn't have dropped all charges immediately. After all, didn't he recently say that if she ever said that one of the previously identified perps didn't attack her that the other charges would have to be dropped?

Anonymous said...

For grins, let's assume Magnum told the truth on Dec. 21. Investigator Wilson's typed notes of the interview have Magnum saying, inter alia, that "once inside the bathroom, Dave Evans was behind me Reade Seligman (sic) was in front of me and Finnerty was
on the floor under Seligman (sic) ... Finnerty then got up and got behind her [now Wilson is apparently describing, not quoting] and Dave Evans got under Finnerty on the floor and Seligman (sic) was still in front of her."

What in the dickens were the guys on the floor doing? I mean, Holy Moly! "Finnerty was on the floor under Seligman" and after Finerty got up "Dave Evans got under Finnerty on the floor."

I cannot even get a mental picture of the guys on the floor, much less what they were doing. Have I just not watched enough porn movies, or what?

Anonymous said...

12:19

It looks as if you are the caboose (and thus, late to the party).

Hu Li Gan

Anonymous said...

James Coleman took some welcome steps and made some welcome statements throughout this fiasco; however, IMO, he could have been much more forceful given his position.

Let's not deify anyone just to have a member of the black community as an example of fairness and reason. Let's be real.

Reality has been in short supply already.

Coleman has been a shining light in all this.....but not the fountain of kleig lights he could have been.

Debrah

james conrad said...

RE: b-ball team.... no way, no how DUKE would have reacted the same way. first off, b-ball brings in millions of dollars of revenue plus, most of the players are black. what we have here is almost a perfect storm type deal, minor sport, mostly white guys, DA thats a criminal and the loopy left profs on campus....man, it doesnt get any better than that.

Anonymous said...

Whats funny to me is why the pseudonyms were ever even mentioned by Crystal & taken seriously in the first place. Who would believe that a brutal rape & assault started off like this, "Hi stripper, My name is Brett and this is Adam and Matt, and we are all standing here in this bathroom with our pants down so we can rape you." Or why would they be calling eachother names during the rape? It's not like they were saying, "Ok Brett, go into the living room and grab the broomstick!" I realize that there are scum sacks out there (such as members of group haty hate) that claim that this rape was planned in advance so they used pseudonyms in order to be super tricky and throw investigators off track, but I just don't get it.

I think back to March, and I just don't get how everybody didn't realize it was a false accusation from the start. Nifong was the virus, but the media was the carrier.

DisgrAce.

Anonymous said...

How will the NAACP and the community in Durham celebrate MLK day ?

GPrestonian said...

12:35pm Anon;

"How will the NAACP and the community in Durham celebrate MLK day?"

I don't know, but there are rumors that MLK plans to protest by spinning in his grave.

GPrestonian said...

Defendant Nifong's quote from the NY Times article:

....I have told the defense attorneys that if at any time the victim in this case tells me that she thinks that one of these people who have been identified was not her assailant, as soon as she tells me that, then that case will go away,” he said.

Anonymous said...

to 12:34 .. You forgot to mention while in the bathroom the 3 boys are looking at the face that looks like cousin Jackie.

Anonymous said...

Debrah -

Professor Coleman made statements that were appropriate for his role in the college and community. It is not realistic to expect him to do more.

If you disagree, please point out anyone in this community who did more.

Anonymous said...

To 12:35PM--

I sent a letter to the N&O which touched upon your points.

Whether or not they print it is another matter. If it is isn't printed by this weekend, I'll have to go on my warpath.

:>)

Debrah

Anonymous said...

So Nifong after reading her new statement, believes in the "Magic Towel".

Wipes only Lax players DNA, leaves other mens DNA and doesn't get soiled by the accusers DNA even after it is used to wipe her.

I what expert witness Nifong lined up to support his new theory of the hoax.

Anonymous said...

To James Conrad:
Actually, for what it's worth, most of the Duke basketball team is not black. At present there are 14 people on the roster, of whom 4 are black. Some of these players, to be sure, are bench riders, but of the recruits who see meaningful playing time, at least 5 (McRoberts, Paulus, Scheyer, Zoubek, Pocius) are white.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, Debrah. I know you would never say anything good about a black person, but Coleman's "mooning" statement more than makes up for any previous lack of vigor (and I don't believe there ever was a lack of vigor) on his part. In fact, the "mooning" statement may make up for any and all shortcomings in the man's entire life. You will have to find some other black person to denigrate.

Horrified said...

These posts regarding Linwood Wilson lead me to think that perhaps it's the accuser and he who are now being set up.

The accuser can be protrayed as being a liar, or someone with mental issues, or some other kind of hapless victim. Wilson is supposedly the only one from the DA's office to speak with her. Therefore, is it still possible that Nifong can throw the victim, and/or Wilson and/or the cops to the wolves? After all, some people are still demanding that this continue in the courts?

Combine that with the record of other NC prosecutors evading justice for their misdeeds, add continued obfuscation by pressure groups, and Nifong might very well believe that he can evade or minimize any fallout.

What do others think?

Anonymous said...

Here is a flashback from the NC NAACP on the Duke LAX update from 8/9/06. It is scary to see how this organization demonizes the players.

http://www.naacpncnetwork.org/Publicity/

* search for "Duke Lacrosse Update" (it is in the middle of the page)

james conrad said...

RE: 12:46....correction, alot of the players are blk, better?

Anonymous said...

"I'll have to go on my warpath"?

What moron wrote that?

Moron, do you own a warpath?

Anonymous said...

Gprestonian makes an excellent point about suborning perjury. A lie or incorrect statement to a police officer, though it may be illegal (this would depend on state laws and I don't know NC's), is not perjury because it's not under oath and it's not in court. So the DA cannot suborn perjury unless he puts the accuser on the stand under oath and allows her to give testimony that he knows is untrue.

Joe T. said...

Isn't it funny how the loopy left salivated over the idea of the Duke "rape" represnting "racism", "sexism", "paternalism", "elitism", the "objectification of women-ism", etc., and then we get a very real murder at NCCU where a black female is arrested for the crime and suddenly we're not hearing any "-isms" talk? Yes, poor Martin Luther King MUST be spinning in his grave.

Anonymous said...

Jamed Conrad--
Okay, better.
(12:46)

Anonymous said...

Questions everyone should ask about the Linwood Wilson 12/21 'interview' of the FA: (1) Did the typewritten report accurately represent the time of the interview as starting at 1:00pm, ending at 3:05pm... two hours and five minutes? (2) Since the notes and statements of the FA are relatively short, was there additional conversation by either party? (3)What else was said by the FA? (4) What else was said by Wilson to the FA? (5)If no additional statements were made, how do you account for the interview time?

bill anderson said...

I am not familiar with North Carolina law, but in some places one can be charged with "making false statements" for which the person speaking does not have to be under oath. (Martha Stewart was convicted of "making false statements," but that was under federal law.)

In this case, if North Carolina has such a law, Crystal could be indicted for what she said, and Wilson could be indicted for aiding and abetting the false statements. But that is only if such a law is in the lawbooks of that state.

And, because Wilson works for the government, no doubt the people in that system will protect him.

Anonymous said...

Not Brian Dennehy as Nifong. Dennehy is too sympathetic (and not nearly ugly enough) to play Nifong realistically. We need somebody really creepy and villianous

and who looks stupid at the same time: John Laroquette.

Or for the animated version, Montgomery Burns.

Anonymous said...

To 12:42PM--

Of course, reasonable people can agree to disagree. Since this thread is not about my personal life, I will not bore you with the reasons I feel very free to call them as I see them regarding the black community.

I do not carry the guilt factor. No one will intimidate me with their double standards. I do not walk on egg shells around the race issue because there is nothing in my life or in the life of anyone in my family that has ever been remotely associated with "hurting the brothas".

Quite the opposite.

Therefore, I am like a very impatient parent. Enough has been done---verbal and financial gymnastics to appease---by those of genuine goodwill for most of the last century and beyond.

I don't feel obligated to place another feather in Coleman's cap beyond what one would do for any other professor who played the role that he did.

Coleman is, and was, in a supreme position to have stood up and to have told Richard Brodhead to grow a set and stop soiling his Depends everytime a black race-baiter from NCCU, the Durham community, or those dubiously-credentialed Gang of 88 right there in his midst, called for the heads of Collin, Reade, and David.

Ok....Ok.....just to stop this gushing session......

Coleman is just great!

To answer your question further, if you read the local papers and if you saw the work some did for the Recall Nifong effort......many, many concerned people spoke out and wrote to those in power to assist the lacrosse guys.

Finito.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

12:53

The moron is Debby. I know, it gets old reading her drivel -- it is just better to just ignore her.

Mike C in AZ

Anonymous said...

GPrestonian--

I agree with you that Steve Buscemi would be perfect to play Nifong.

He's got the bad teeth already. All he would need is an overbite added...a...la...Hillary Clinton and Mikey.

Buscemi plays the dishonest, creepy roles to the max.....and I believe I read that he has a home somewhere on the coast of NC. Researching his "subject" for the role would be quite easy.

:>)

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Rosie "O" to play Nifong in the film????

Anonymous said...

Coleman should get a special award for being a hero of the Black race. The reality is that if it weren't for him, people would judge blacks based on idiots and nutjobs like Karla Holloway, Cash Michaels, Georgia Goslee, and Victoria Peterson.

There is a lot of anti-black sentiment in the United States and folks like Coleman do a lot to undermine that sort of negative sentiment.

Anonymous said...

Who handled Allen Gells civil suit against those DAs. I dont recall them ever paying out any money.

Someone please tell us.

Anonymous said...

Viewing the information in the most favorable light to CGM, she: 1) is an extremely mentally disturbed person and 2) was raped. She is so crazy/traumatized she is unable to describe who the attackers were and her testimony is changing along with her state of mind. That explains the “unnamed DNA” in her private areas, and her insanity explains why she is unable to reliably remember what happened to her. So, if that is a possibility, why has not someone attempted to find out WHO THE DNA BELONGS TO? The Dec. 21st interview did not even ask. The only logical explanation I can come up with is everybody is assuming she is a hooker and the DNA is “business related”. I really would like to hear some comments on this unlikely but possible theory – thanks........

Anonymous said...

Debrah,

whatever you were doing for the day you were gone, would you please go back and do it some more? At least for a few days. Please.

Anonymous said...

OK ..With all we know after yesterday.

Once again I ask; Where are the Federals and Alberto G??????????

The Fong Gang are criminals, they need to prosecuted for there crimes TODAY!

"Angry in the USA"

Anonymous said...

Coleman should be appointed to replace Karla Holloway as chair of the CCI committee on race issues. That way we might get a well-written report with sensible recommendations.

Sorry Karla, no offense meant, nothing personal, please don't report me to Provost Lange etc. etc.

Anonymous said...

Debra at 1:01

Coleman was a voice of reason in the midst of shrillness and divisiveness. It sound like you would prefer that he had been equally shrill and divisive. Sorry, but I don't think that would have helped.

Anonymous said...

To 12:48PM--

Tsk! Tsk!

You know, it's worth it all just seeing your type of knee-jerk silliness in print.

Some of you behave like Pavlov's dogs. What kind of awful injustice must your family of ancestors have been responsible for that you wince and grimace at the mere hesitancy to gush and gush.....

.....about something that is quite positive (Coleman's comments about this case).....but certainly not some performance that deserves a medal.

You must deal with your need to gush and grovel----perhaps a lack of personal experiences with black people? Huh?----in some other way.

I will not absorb your silliness. Find a "cause" and fund it.


Debrah

Anonymous said...

Read the works of the 88! You will know them by what they have written. You will be shocked!

Anonymous said...

His assets may have been transferred to his wife (Cy). Read: Home, Investments.

It should be noted that NC has a history of allowing corrupt NC government employees to receive their pensions (ie allow them to retire, charge them, and then whatever).

There was the judge that refused to give up his seat because he lost his law license (took everything from a woman suffering from dementia - her home was literally bare including the cupboards...). He did cave in but his initial line was that he would not leave even if he was not (could not) do the job he was supposed to do.

The prior speaker (Mr Black) is implicated in a corruption scandal that involves the split legislature several years ago. In order to obtain a majority Black went to an IHOP and gave a republican defector cash and a job for his son.

The lottery board (lottery was just established - moral issues held it up for awhile) had an 'interesting' start. One of the board members had a serious conflict with a gaming company that provides the tickets etc (company did not win the contract though) and was recently convicted in federal court as a result.

NC is pretty corrupt and the corruption goes all the way to the speaker. The Governor seems fine but has little real power.

Anonymous said...

I would not be surprised if Cy and Nifong have had separate accounts for years. The house may or may not be in her name (probably is now) but we do not have a homestead law so even though I mentioned the possibility of a transfer in my prior post he would still lose it.

GPrestonian said...

12:54 Anon & 12:58 Bill Anderson:

I meant to mention that lying to an LE officer was probably illegal in NC as it is most(??) other places. I appreciate 12:54 doing so.

The Feds do have many more hammers in their quiver, Bill. Lying to any Fed investigator would be actionable, I would think.

My point in the earier post was this - defendant Nifong has really done nothing with this other information yet. Most right-thinking people would say that that's a problem in itself! :)

But it certainly looks like they're trying to get Crystal to get it 'righter & righter'. To what end, and whose benefit, 'tis difficult to say.

That it helps the defense is simply a side-effect - Nifong never has, and I suspect never will, feel or show any concern for Collin, Reade & Dave

Anonymous said...

Debrah:

I agree with others that you keep doing what you were doing while you were away from this board.

This may be a speculation, but I would not be surprised if you were in a place where "the authorities" allow you to use once every few days. Perhaps an asylum? Or some other type of institution?

Concerned Citizen

westernblot said...

I think we all secretly like being aggravated.

Obviously Nifong is going to get nailed as will these other SOB's.

Does life go on after that?

Newyorkstateofmind said...

anon 11:11

Good legal accounting of Nifong's civil exposure.

Anonymous said...

I'm not understanding why the sexual assault charges against Reade Seligman were not dropped,on Dec 21, when the FA says Seligman did not commit any sexual acts on her? Does Nifong not believe the accuser? hmmm...wonder why!
Seligman could not possible be one of her alleged assaulters since she CLEARLY describes what MATT and ADAM (the only two "false names" she claims Seligman used) did to her.
I think we'll find out that Mike Nifong is a false name and that he's really not a DA, but a pimp.

Anonymous said...

To 1:13PM--

No, that is certainly not what I would have preferred.

You are reaching.

Do any of you see yourselves? You perpetuate the double standards that you decry.

When will a member of the black community be able to do a very positive and reasonable thing.....and it just be considered as that?

Why must we always magnify the performance?

That attitude fosters the very same issues which caused this case to escalate in the first place.

Hey, I like James Coleman. He's an intelligent and righteous dude. Just not a person who has done anything heroic.

Sorry, my standards are the same for everyone. No matter their race.

Now......I realize that I am dealing with those who find that idea an alien concept.

Debrah

Jerri Lynn Ward, J.D. said...

Regarding the suborning perjury issue, was the statement sworn?

One question has stubbornly planted itself in my mind. I keep wondering if Crystal has, in some way, been intimidated into sticking with her accusations. In fact, when I heard about the new statement, I kept envisioning her in a room with this Linwood (is that the investigator?) person standing over her and leading her through the "new" scenario, in a threatening manner. Remember that cop with his crossed arms and steely look during the hearing involving the taxi cab driver?

I keep wonder if the prosecution is engaging in a little witness tampering.

The reason I suspect this is that I don't think that Crystal is nearly as invested in this case as are Nifong and crew. She was just trying to get out of incarceration and it got way out of hand.

Nifong and crew have every incentive and motivation to tamper with their witness--which even the prosecution is barred by law from doing as I read the statute. And, from what I could tell, Nifong already attempted to tamper with a witness--the taxi cab driver.

Anonymous said...

Not Brian Dennehy as Nifong. Dennehy is too sympathetic (and not nearly ugly enough) to play Nifong realistically. We need somebody really creepy and villianous


I'll bet Michael Richards is available.

Anonymous said...

Also: The N&O print edition article was not that great today. Neff may have informed the readers about Nifong's actions early on but his articles are not that clear and are painfully neutral as to the group of 88.

The N&O does not mention the part about not waiting for trial, investigation. There is no exploration as to whether the issues cited by the 88 in fact exist (which was the premise of the ad).

In addition the Holloway exchange with the Duke parent was written by the N&O in a way that was sympathetic to Holloway when the mother did have a legitimate point (whether her son has anything to do with her feelings etc).

Anonymous said...

"Regarding the suborning perjury issue, was the statement sworn?"

Probably not, seems as if it was rather informal and statement was typed up after the fact by the investigator. I doubt Nifong would let her sign a sworn statement.

Regardless you can deceive an law officer and still be charged with lying to an investigator - sworn statement or not.

Anonymous said...

Concerned Citizen 1:19PM--

It is my hope that your post has made you feel better.

Isn't is nice that you can fabricate foolish libel and slander about strangers as you have done and not be taken to court for what you have just posted?

You are some bitter coward "concerned citizen".

It is certainly obvious that your concerns run deep and that you have a litany of reasons for them.

Good luck.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Nifong will say they all lied to me, DPD, Meehan, Wilson. I never talked about the case with the acuser.

Nifong asked Wilson "Do you believe her?" Wilson saids yes.

Nifong "see its all their fault".

Newyorkstateofmind said...

balding.lawyer 11:30

Thanks for details and what to expect from the suppression hearing 2/5. I was somehow under the impression these crim. pro. hearings were attorney/judge only affairs, based only on paper and photo and artifact documentation and argument.

Looks like I should have listened more attentively in crim. pro. class years ago. At least it hasn't effected my estate planning practice.

Anonymous said...

re James Coleman--of course it's a good thing that he's stepped up--not as a black man, but as a Duke law professor (I think he's an affirmative action case, but that's not the point here).

kiddy kats: Don't you think the time is ripe (cf "Ripeness is all"--Shakespeare) to initiate strategic proposals toward defeating the G88's agenda-driven bullshit? I'm specifically addressing this post to Duke parents, alumni and students:

NEWS FLASH: AAAS has 4 full professors, 2 of whom hold chairs. To my knowledge (consult Charles Murray's opus, "Human Accomplishment") a masterpiece of art, literature, or music has never emanated from sub-Saharan Africa, nor any scientific discoveries of note. So why does Dook expend so much money on funding a culture that has prompted such courses as "Freedom Stories," "The Atlantic Slave Trade" and "The Hip-Hop Aesthetic"? These so-called "courses" could be taught in a week, assuming they have true academic value.

China and Japan, on the other hand, have contributed geniuses and masterpieces in science, art and literature. How pathetic is it that Dook students recognize Toni Morrison, but have never heard of geniuses like Shen Congwen, Lu Xun, Qu Yuan, Li Bai, Murasaki Shikibu, and Sei Shonagon?

NEWS FLASH: There are 0 full professors in Japanese "dept" (both Chinese and Japanese are subsets of--get this--"Asian and African Languages and Literature")--LOL

There is 1 full professor teaching Chinese.

This is the kind of information that will ultimately reveal Brodhead for the bitch he is.

So...what do you guys plan on doing about this--uh--situation?

RP

Anonymous said...

When will a member of the black community be able to do a very positive and reasonable thing.....and it just be considered as that?

Why must we always magnify the performance?

Professor Coleman's race is not remotely relevant to this discussion.
Those of us who respect his actions do so because he spoke out appropriately as an attorney and as a member of the Duke faculty when others did not. His ideas were clearly and convincingly presented, which stood out in sharp contrast to the "Group of 88" – and in sharp contrast to your remarks as well
.

Anonymous said...

1:24 - The statement will be sworn, however, on February 5, 2007.

For those of you wondering why subornation is being mentioned, circle that date.

That, fellow hooligans, is the day the Court can hammer Nifong.

-Esquire-
-Maryland-

Anonymous said...

I'm betting the G88 (or the radical elements) have a concerted publicity campaign using "anonymous" emailers and forum posters to cause disruption and distraction, plus make them look like a victim by claiming they are receiving vicious hate mail.

An enterprising lawyer with some net background and a handful of subpoenas could make a lot of money here.

Anonymous said...

Naacp Has lost its way and has become an orgazation of racists... just the kind of people the foudners were trying to fight againest

Anonymous said...

National Review has an article up on Nifong:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YmZlOWUwOWQyNzFhN2E2MGNmNmY3MDJmNGM0NjU5Yjk=

Anonymous said...

James Coleman should be appointed to replace Karla Holloway as chair of the CCI committee on race issues. Then we might get a well-written report with sensible recommendations.

Sorry Karla, no offense intended, nothing personal, please don't report me to Provost Lange etc. etc.

Anonymous said...

The lack of sophistication about Coleman is probably proportional to lack of objectivity .

Coleman is a tool whose sole mission is and has always been to deflect all accountability onto Nifong and away from the crass and cynical decision to throw the team and their parents under the bus WHEN IT COUNTED !!

KC is de facto fronting for the Academy and must if he is not to be destryed by same .

Hard to believe ...please .

pantapon rose said...

I took classes with the 3 professors mentioned in the article: all very smart guys.

Anonymous said...

So clever I posted it twice. Sorry.

Anonymous said...

I just don't buy criticism of coleman.

I seriously doubt he is calling the MSM every time there is a new outlandish twist in the hoax. MSM are contacting coleman in order to obtain an opinion from a rational source.

Unfortunately, the rational comments are competing for attention with the irrational G88 sentiments.

james conrad said...

RE: 1:37 hey, thats a fred thompson piece. hes a super sharp lawyer and former senator from tenn.

Newyorkstateofmind said...

Jerri Lynn Ward, J.D. 1:22

Lots of agreement from here, although CGM could still well have malicious and vindictive motives, yet still be the pawn of Nifong's machinations, swept along not just by the force of his will and the power of his office, but also the ever-developing national spotlight shining on all this now.

She clearly is not equipped to set the agenda here in any way whatsoever, and I suspect is simply grabbing the rails until she can arrange a jackpot interview with MSM after all this affair blows up and over. Which of course gives her huge incentive to "stay the course" with all her lies and deceits.

Makes her potential civil and criminal liability at the end of this that much greater in my mind. And deservedly so.

pantapon rose said...

That said, I should add that since just about every professor at the law school teaches a class in legal ethics at one point or another (they have this rotating 1 credit course called reading in ethics or something or other), even the deans, having only 3 speak out at this late date is nothing to be proud of.

Jerri Lynn Ward, J.D. said...

Newyourstateofmind,

"She clearly is not equipped to set the agenda here in any way whatsoever, and I suspect is simply grabbing the rails until she can arrange a jackpot interview with MSM after all this affair blows up and over. Which of course gives her huge incentive to "stay the course" with all her lies and deceits."

I certainly agree that she has such incentives. And, if she was manipulated into the new statement by means of Linwood presenting the prospect of losing this opportunity, I think that is also witness tampering.

By the way here is the North Carolina Statute regarding making false statments to police officers. It is only a misdemeanor.

Jerri Lynn Ward, J.D. said...

Whoops! I meant NewYORKstateof mind.

Sorry.

Anonymous said...

Nifong is as morally bankrupt as it gets but what of all his Assistant DAs? They are all law school graduates and members of the bar. They are not conscripts. They could walk tomorrow and they should be able to keep bread on the table and a roof overhead.

I will hold them morally culpable for the rest of their careers. I have their names and I intend to remind people that they were Nifong's assistants.

Anonymous said...

"Quite correctly, he added, 'These people are almost criminal. It's making a mockery of the system. It's like Nifong is mooning the system. It's contemptuous.'"

"[Almost criminal" means NOT criminal.

Surely you jest, KC?

Instead of "[q]uite correctly," better ALMOST correctly!

Michael J. Gaynor

Michael said...

re: 1:30 PM

Perhaps Duke has a bunch of others that teach Chinese. Chinese is an up and coming language given the amount of trade and outsourcing that we do with that country and other asian countries where Chinese is spoken.

Several US metro areas have private
chinese schools that meet on the
weekends. Parents teach the classes
and rent out schools so the $ cost
to parents is very low.

New York Times had an article on
chinese nannys being in demand to
teach their kids from a very early
age.

I don't think that there's much of
an Asian population in the Durham
area. The applications at Duke stated about 25% asian or over
4,000 students.

I think that a lot of second and
third generation asian students
don't spend a huge amount of time
dwelling on their past history as
they seem to assimilate well. There
tends to be more interest when they
are adults.

Anonymous said...

This has the making of a BAD lifetime movie.

Cedarford said...

"Dave Evans was behind me Reade Seligman (sic) was in front of me and Finnerty was
on the floor under Seligman (sic) ... Finnerty then got up and got behind her [now Wilson is apparently describing, not quoting] and Dave Evans got under Finnerty on the floor and Seligman (sic) was still in front of her."

What in the dickens were the guys on the floor doing? I mean, Holy Moly! "Finnerty was on the floor under Seligman" and after Finerty got up "Dave Evans got under Finnerty on the floor."

I cannot even get a mental picture of the guys on the floor, much less what they were doing. Have I just not watched enough porn movies, or what?

12:27 PM "

Guys on the floor? They be those white vampires licking the wound on Precious's heel. Or they be those sick white "nectar-catchers" waiting for fluids to drip down on them.
Euuuuuuuwwww!
I know. I know.
But other than the possibility that she is a lying, deranged whore, nothing else comes to mind. Not even porn movies or the Kama Sutra provides explaination.

*****************************
Hi stripper, My name is Brett and this is Adam and Matt, and we are all standing here in this bathroom with our pants down so we can rape you." Or why would they be calling eachother names during the rape?

Even less sense now that Precious is back to telling in the latest version that 20 extra guys besides the 3 were in the bedroom, and helped restrain her and push her in with the 3. Presumably, they would know who Matt, Bret, and Adam were - so they must have been in on the conspiracy. And Kim Roberts makes a reappearance - waiting with the 20 guys for the rape to finish so Kim can help clean her up with the "magic towel" and help her get dressed.

Other than the possibility she is a dumb, deranged, whore lying her ass off in story version #14 - her story might be believable to certain Gang of 88-rs, Durham residents, and the NAACP.
***************************
Gprestonian makes an excellent point about suborning perjury. A lie or incorrect statement to a police officer, though it may be illegal (this would depend on state laws and I don't know NC's), is not perjury because it's not under oath and it's not in court. So the DA cannot suborn perjury unless he puts the accuser on the stand under oath and allows her to give testimony that he knows is untrue.

12:54 PM


True, but an investigator or cop that steers a witness into a new time line, attempts to correct her inconsistencies, helps her "recover correct memory" in coaching is doing witness tampering a crime in most states. When the witness testifies it would be suborning perjury, but witness tampering law recognizes that most witnesses never make it onto a stand in any court - especially when their lies or cop coaching are found out ahead of time, or during the appeals process when plea bargained cases never reaching the court are found to have corrupted witnesses used to pressure the plea.

Michael said...

re: 2:09

You have to use a few weasel words
these days as you never know when
you're sitting in court as a witness
and Nifong goes after you for threatening or slander. I wouldn't put it past him or his pd.

Anonymous said...

Poor Gang of 88. It's hard defending social justice against the onslaught of blog hooligans. Now even Fred Thompson has joined the side of the hooligans. At the rate we are going, every member of the 88 Gang will be able to spend the rest of his life making $50,000 speeches to left-wing academics and other assorted race/class/gender-obsessed moonbats. In the academy, the moonbats are winning; and there is nothing that can be done about it by those of us who are paying their salaries through tuition and taxes.

Anonymous said...

How do you get from the scene of the non-crime to CGM's trailer (mfg. home)?

47.0 mi (about 52 mins)
1.
Head south on N Buchanan Blvd toward Dacian Ave
2.
Turn left at W Chapel Hill St
3.
Turn right to merge onto NC-147 S via the Durham Fwy S/NC-147 S ramp to Airport/Raleigh
4.
Merge onto I-40 E via exit 5A to Raleigh/Airport
5.
Take the NC-42 exit 312 to Clayton/Fuquay-Varina
6.
Turn right at NC 42 Hwy W
7.
Continue on NC-42
8.
Sharp left at Rock Service Station Rd
9.
404 Rock Service Station Rd, Raleigh, NC 27603

Anonymous said...

guess we should all go and bang pots?

When is good for you?

Anonymous said...

Please - I have had occasions to work with Professor Coleman in his days of private practice and he is by any measure a superb and ethical lawyer. So it no surprise to me that he has been the voice of reason here. His race and political inclinations are irrelevant - he is simply speaking to doing the right thing - in the context of a cogent legal analysis. Yes, I concede that perhaps in the corrupt neo-Stalinesque culture of Duke academe his statements are heroic but in the end he is doing what experienced, ethical and effective lawyers do - apply the very obvious facts to the law with the principle of justice in mind.

pantapon rose said...

There's a big Chinese presence at Duke. At the law school, there are more students from China than there are African Americans. The summer program was in China one year and Vietnam the next. One of the guys who set up the Chinese stock market is a graduate and teaches a class there.

Anonymous said...

2:20 PM

The FA's address is:
7404 ROCK SERVICE STATION RD
Not
404 ROCK SERVICE STATION RD

Anonymous said...

A photo of the FA's trailer...
http://msweb01.co.wake.nc.us/realestate/Photo.asp?id=0129953&cd=01&loc=1045++ALTICE+DR&des=LO6+ALTICE+EST+BM1983%2D1112&pin=1606872016

Anonymous said...

>>>>>I just don't buy criticism of coleman.

I seriously doubt he is calling the MSM every time there is a new outlandish twist in the hoax. MSM are contacting coleman in order to obtain an opinion from a rational source.

Unfortunately, the rational comments are competing for attention with the irrational G88 sentiments.<<<<<<

If you buy criticism of Duke then you must by definition , buy criticism of Coleman . While KC tries to imply separation between Brodhead , Steele and Coleman and the 88 , he cannot make that case stick .

Every action and statement coming out of Duke can only be seen as CYA in the aftermath of the consequences of their political and cynical decision to do to the lacrosse team and their families that which they would not have even considered doing to the basketball team and theirs .

Coleman is a tool of the continuing PR strategy to shift blame away from Duke's institutional immorality to pander racially when there were no economic consequences for doing so .

Anonymous said...

Poster 1:38PM is someone who is FINALLY getting it.

I feel a large degree of pity for those above who have attacked me so viciously. They have underscored how insecure they are about the issue of "race"......which is predictable.

They are living in a parallel universe of the 1960's. Probably never had a serious and close friendship with anyone of another race, and think that they can somehow get their bonifides on an internet website by attacking me......

.....simply because I suggested that the gushing had been a bit over the top.

Most people are afraid of their own limitations......and they try to project them onto others.

It's even more putrid when posters behave this way "Anonymously" or as a "Concerned Citizen". LOL!!!

If some of the ignorance leveled against me today was done by adults.....we can all see the type of people who make up jury pools in this country.

The average person on the street is a two-digit IQ.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Rosie O'Donnell should play Crystal.

Anonymous said...

in blackface?

anon.no 1234567890 said...

@11:45 am Bob Loblaw said...

Dennehy? Are you kidding? He not only has too much integrity, he has obvious strength of character that would come through in any role, and that would not be an accurate portrayal of Nifong.


Please see the article, "Fake Heroes" - Military Officers' Association of America website @ http://preview.tinyurl.com/yxwotu

Quote: "In 1989, actor Brian Dennehy told The New York Times that he suffered a concussion and shrapnel wounds in combat, and in 1993 he told Playboy he served five years in Vietnam. Although he did serve in the Marine Corps from 1959 to 1963, his only overseas tour was to Okinawa, Japan. He apologized for lying in 1999 after winning the Tony Award for best leading actor in Death of a Salesman."

With all respect to Mr Loblaw, Dennehy would be perfectly cast to play DA Nifong.

duke09parent said...

Debrah,

"Why must we always magnify the performance?"

Not so much magnify as point it out. The answer is because there are thousands and thousands of white folk like you who believe, and try to have others believe, that black folk are inferior in every way that counts.

And when a reasonably articulate (or over-articulate) black person says something in public which shows oversensitivity to issues of race (probably because of unfortunate personal experience), some knuckleheads send them hate mail calling them n**** bitches and savages. I think Holloway was and is wrong. Her writing style gives me a headache. But nothing she has done justifies the hate mail she has received.

So when a black man or woman in a prominent position speaks out for even-handed judgment in a case rife with racial tension, it is worth noting.

We've seen you say blacks are inferior. OK, we understand your view.

You've posted six times on this string since you said "finito". Please go away already.

Anonymous said...

Dukeparent -- I think there are a lot of who agree that Debrah is a detraction, at best. Best to just ignore her.

People like her, who feel they are superior to everyone else are not helping in any way.

Frankly, it gets old hearing her talk about people finally getting it or the average person has a 2 digit I.Q.

I think she is a joke.

Anonymous said...

Debrah says, "The average person on the street is a two-digit IQ."

Funny, I don't see too many two-digit IQs walking around. How about you?

Anonymous said...

There is no doubt in my mind that Liefong, in desperation, engineered this latest pile of lies from CGM.

It's easy to picture the scene: Liefong, watching his career and perhaps his freedom slip down the toilet, tells Linwood: "Go see that lying bitch again, and don't come back without some new story that won't humiliate me completely. Tell her if she doesn't cooperate, I'll put her black ass in jail for filing a false report. You know what to do."

Ordinarily, I'd say the chance of proving the above is near zero. But, if Mangum actually does take the stand, even if only on February 5, there's an actual chance she may blurt out how blatantly Linwood manipulated her "recollections", and/or falsified his paraphrasing of her in the report. And once Linwood is looking at serious charges of witness tampering and subornation of perjury, chances are that he'll rat out the chief rat, Mike Nifong.

Apparently it never occurred to Liefong that his other co-conspiritor, Brian Meehan, would tell the truth about the frame-job, once put under oath. Liefong might have made the same mistake about Crystal. He's taking a big chance, gambling his freedom on the ramblings of a pea-brained spewer of bad fiction like Crystal.

Anonymous said...

To 1:31PM--

Don't be disingenuous at the same time you are trying so hard for gravitas.

EVERYTIME anyone mentions Coleman.....they just have to add that he is "black".

I mean, this whole thread is framed around that.

When some of you fine adult anonymous posters wish to make your "deep" points, do so by not looking like silly saps out for a spit wad session.

Debrah

anon. no 1234567890 said...

to the blog Admin: @1400, 1426 & 1429z, the rape accuser's address is posted. Because a record is publicly available, should another local crackpot be enabled to cause more trouble?

Anonymous said...

There is no doubt in my mind that Liefong, in desperation, engineered this latest pile of lies from CGM.

It's easy to picture the scene: Liefong, watching his career and perhaps his freedom slip down the toilet, tells Linwood: "Go see that lying bitch again, and don't come back without some new story that won't humiliate me completely. Tell her if she doesn't cooperate, I'll put her black ass in jail for filing a false report. You know what to do."

Ordinarily, I'd say the chance of proving the above is near zero. But, if Mangum actually does take the stand, even if only on February 5, there's an actual chance she may blurt out how blatantly Linwood manipulated her "recollections", and/or falsified his paraphrasing of her in the report. And once Linwood is looking at serious charges of witness tampering and subornation of perjury, chances are that he'll rat out the chief rat, Mike Nifong.

Apparently it never occurred to Liefong that his other co-conspiritor, Brian Meehan, would tell the truth about the frame-job, once put under oath. Liefong might have made the same mistake about Crystal. He's taking a big chance, gambling his freedom on the ramblings of a pea-brained spewer of bad fiction like Crystal.

Richard Aubrey said...

Paulie Shore for Brodhead.

Anonymous said...

Jerry Springer would be best for the role of Nifong

Anonymous said...

It really is beyond my comprehension how these boys are STILL being charged with anything. Does the fact that beyond Nifong, Wilson, and G88, everyone else realizes that this is a FARCE, even set in the mind?

I do have a question...if Nifong would have dropped ALL charges against Reade, when his lawyer first offered the photos at the ATM, do you think this "case" would have continued, on the other two? Would Evans and Finnerty still be defendants? And would the case be stronger?

(BTW, I have NEVER believed these boys did ANYTHING to that.....person.

Sue

Anonymous said...

2:39PM Duke09parent--

You have posted such things many times. You also have a tic and a habit of using hyperbole. Perhaps you don't get enough praise on your day job as a little civil lawyer.

So you must attack anyone who is not in line with your Leftist views.

Do not post falsehoods. Especially as you hide behind the curtain of a "duke parent09". LOL!

I have never posted that black people are inferior. So like Mike Nifong, sir, you are a liar. A certified liar.

You are very weak, and I imagine that's why you have a lot of free time.

With your silly, emotional hyperbole and the way you make irrational leaps trying to prove that you even have a point, I can imagine that you are quite impotent in the courtroom as well.

You have your opinions and the rest of us do as well.

Do not post anything that is false regarding my posts.....then I won't have to verbally b!tch slap you so often.

Moreover, I am not familiar with the trashy people of your ilk who write racial epithets to others. Perhaps you and your little childish helpers on this thread should go sit beside the Gang of 88. Your vicious insecurity and pea brains are amazingly similar.

Finally, I didn't wake up in Iran this morning. I will post and use free speech anytime I wish.

If that bothers you....go get a real job and stop spewing your hatred.

Dear little DukeParent09, you are really a very stupid and emotional little man.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

What, more tripe from Debby?

We all wish she would get over herself.

Anonymous said...

What was that, 38 instances of the pronoun 'I' in Debrah's last rant.

Really, Debrah, you must get a hold of yourself. No one cares.

locomotive breath said...

"in blackface?"

Your words - not mine.

In a strange way, with regard to Brodhead, this case IS about the basketball team. I think Brodhead thinks that athletics has too big a role at Duke. However, Coach K is too powerful to take on directly. So what Brodhead does, as a cautionary tale, is to use the non-rape to destroy the lacrosse team. It's a shot across the bow of all athletic teams that sooner are later they are going to screw up and Brodhead's going to be there to stick in the knife.

Anonymous said...

You forgot to mention the number of times Debrah used 'you'. really impressive (not).

She really does think highly of herself and her... intelect?

Anonymous said...

Ha!

So many little Rosie O'Donnells on this board.

Either "Anonymous" or someone's "parent".

I agree with Donald Trump. One has to hit a bully right between the eyes.

To be the focus of the barbs of many little disgruntled urchins, I must be doing something right.

Most people with a hidden agenda can never take the truth.....as they post "anonymously".

Well......my work is done! The Lefty crazies are in full force meltdown.

LOL!!!
GOL!!!

Debrah

Newyorkstateofmind said...

Debrah 1:22

"When will a member of the black community be able to do a very positive and reasonable thing.....and it just be considered as that?"

This day may never come Debrah, and it's not coming has nothing to do with the disposition of whites per se, on this blog or otherwise.

"Otherness," the tendency to define and bond with an ingroup, and separate from or demonize an outgroup, is at the core of all human relating. Less successful societies like many in Africa and parts of Asia and Latin America--and by "less successful" I mean those that are run by tyrannical or semi-tyrannical governments, where most people under the dominion of the governments are poor and struggling, with few protections from state abuse, and a low life expectancy consistent with their lack of economic opportunity and education--these places around the world, find people whose sense of "otherness" is so restricted that only extended family and some adjoining clan members are considered trustworthy.

As one heads up the economic food chain around the world, one finds that the wealthiest countries are those who not only base most of their super-productive economic activity on honest dealings with strangers, but transact an increasing amount of such activity over computers, like the one I'm on, where we as Americans have so broadly expanded our definition of "otherness" that we treat as real "conversations" like this one, and treat as a given that when we order a robotic vacuum cleaner over the Internet with our plastic card, it will come in the mail in 5 to 7 business days; else we'll feel obliged to call a number and complain, so wired are we in the US into the notion that you don't even have to see a human being to make a major purchase--now that is trust, that is dramatically breaking down the sense of "otherness."

Unfortunately, lots of people who live in this land of expanded otherness have themselves a very limited definition of otherness, and don't choose to share in the incredible bounty that is America.

Or to put it more precisely, they use racial hucksterism to advance their narrow agendas, and not coincidentally line their pockets with gold, much more gold than typically they could make doing "an honest living."

The exemplar of this group recently got back from a Holocaust denial conference in Iran. His name is David Duke. Other than his white skin, he has much in common with a fellow racial huckster, Al Sharpton.

There are as well some important differences between these two men, which can be illustrated by way of contrasting the media coverage these men get when they grandstand on issues important to them.

Back in the 80's, Marla Hanson, a model living in Manhattan, was subjected to a ghoulish slashing of her face (15 deep cuts) by a landlord whose advances she had spurned. This landlord hired two thugs, who happened to be black, to do the slashing. The two were later caught and brought to trial for mayhem.

A curious thing happened as the events of the day unfolded. Al Sharpton started making public statements that, contrary to all and any evidence anywhere in the case, Hanson was a prostitute who had a pattern of trying to entrap men into relationships (no evidence), and a racist who was targeting these innocent young black men with a frame-up to fulfill her racist fantasies (no evidence of course; boatloads of evidence that the two men were the slashers in question; a jury agreed, and they were found guilty on all counts). BTW, Sharpton's sidekick, Alton Maddox, represented the landlord and two other defendants in this case, arguing in open court precisely what Sharpton had been telling the media: this woman (Hanson) is a lieing whore, and a racist to boot, who's just trying to frame these upstanding young black men.

See the following site for more on Hanson and her travails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Marla_Hanson

Sharpton and Maddox were also behind the equally horrendous Tawana Brawley hoax, which has much in common with this hoax. And here Sharpton has been again, down at Duke seeking "racial justice" in connection with a crime the only import of which is the one being perpetrated on the defendants.

Sharpton meanwhile is a frequent speaker throughout the MSM, former keynote speaker at a democratic convention, two-time presidential candidate, and the center of his own media empire.

Contrast this with David Duke, who has never managed for all his bombast and bluster to ever be associated with miscarriages of justice of any kind, racial or otherwise. Unlike with Sharpton, Duke's creepy views have garnered for him about as much power as the other Dukes--the Duke Three--have been able to exercise in their railroaded condition. He gets almost no MSM coverage, few guest appearances anywhere; and his MSM coverage consists of occasional and withering and oblique critiques about how he shouldn't even be discussed, except to be dismissed as an evil racist lunatic.

BTW, there are many blacks around the country who get extra attention for their views from not just many in the white community, but many in the black community as well. They are known as "black conservatives," primarily not because they are black, but because they are conservative. Everyone from Clarence Thomas to Thomas Sowell to Larry Elder.

As for the politics of James Coleman, I know nothing about them. Maybe rather than being a conservative, however defined, he's simply a classical liberal who, like KC, simply as a matter of course stands on the right side of this issue, at the side of the defendants whose lives are being savaged. Speaking of KC, his approach to this all along I would describe as heroic; and that Coleman was one of the earliest observers to question the legitimacy of this case, that puts him in rarefied company as well, right there with KC.

Heroic?? Actually, yes, you better believe it, when fence sitting is the typical posture of academics everywhere, except when, a la the G88, they finally get excited and committed to something like...protecting the reputation of a woman who brought patently false rape charges, not the inncoent men who must defend against those charges.

While it is true that some whites feel a special appreciation for the contributions of these conservatives, and others like them, to MLK's dream of a truly colorblind society, given the fact that in the black community at large, half or more of all members think OJ is innocent, AIDs is a government conspiracy to shorten the lives of black people, and here in Durham 90% of their neighbors made sure that DA Nifong was elected in a general election, elected specifically and especially so that he would continue prosecuting a case which even by then--early November--was widely seen as a rape hoax.

"When will a member of the black community be able to do a very positive and reasonable thing.....and it just be considered as that?"

I've requoted your inquiry, that I may provide my final thoughts on it: Lots of social developments and moves toward openness will move us closer to the day of seeing this sort of attitude societywide.

As for now, let you be concerned about whites who, in your opinion, are overly solicitous of a guy who, again in your opinion, just did an ok thing, no big deal really.

Meanwhile, let me be concerned that the people who will most distort and, where they can, disrupt, Coleman's message and his efforts will not be white-hooded Klansmen, but the good people of Durham who now see him as a "race traitor" for abandoning the case they so richly wanted to see brought to a gulity verdict, notwithstanding the innocence of the defendants.

WTF said...

I am so confused about this whole case. How has the Federal government not intervened? What we are really talking about is Niffong suppressing evidence and creating charges so he could win an election.

This is absurd. What has happened to everyone involved? Are we so hateful of eachother that we can't look at this one case and say "These guys were falsely accussed?"

Instead we seperate ourselves from the present situation and linger on about social injustice from the past. - Which has nothing to do with these three guys!

BALCK STORM RISING said...

ALL WHITE PEOPLE NEDED TO BE RAPED BY THEIR FORMER SLAVES.

Anonymous said...

As to the person to play the role of Nifong...
Let's think here what we're looking for. A nut job who continues to run his mouth to his own detriment and that of everybody around him despite sounding completely psychotic the entire time.





Sounds like TOM CRUISE is a lock!!!

Anonymous said...

Since I will assume that all who write here, never OWNED slaves, I'm unable to undertand "balck (sic) storm rising."

Sue

Anonymous said...

balck storm rising?

What the heck is a balck?

duke09parent said...

wtf re federales,

I gather an investigative file has been opened. The feds will and should refrain from intervening until it is clear that the state system will not in the end do the right thing. The guys haven't even been tried yet, much less convicted.

I am not a fan of calling for federal intervention in state affairs when the state system is adequate to correct temporary injustices.

M. Simon said...

James Wood played Roy Cohen in a movie.

I think he has the requisite experience.

M. Simon said...

I know Bill Macy personally from the 70's. He normally speaks midwestern.

A fun guy to party with too!

He was great in American Buffalo.

Mamet was fun to hang with as well.

That was back when they were no names at the St. Nicholas Theater. I provided the speakers and part of the audio system for its premier production and watched it from some "phantom of the opera" windows in what later became the office.

Anonymous said...

Locomotive breath,

Brodhead f**ked up by taking on duke athletics.

Just this weekend, duke football alumni are gathering over the sorry state of duke football (God help them). The upshot from this is neither Brodhead, nor for that matter Alleva can assume Duke alumni are going to be sending blank checks without knowing the next time an incident occurs the Administration will refrain from rolling over on Duke athletics.

I'll said it again, I take coleman at face value and he doesn't strike me as beholden to anyone.

M. Simon said...

Witness tampering has been on my mind for a few days.

What I envisioned is the investigator leading the witness saying "now did this happen this way?"

And CGM says yes, and this, and this and this.

For an hour or two.

Giving rise to the mish mash we see.

Anonymous said...

2:44pm writes that Debrah is a "detraction".
Uh, I think you might be trying to say "distraction"?
Have to agree. I've seen her and she's a babe.

Anonymous said...

Drudgereport is stating that Nifong wants off the case. He sent a letter to the state AG.

Anonymous said...

Nifong if recusing himself. How long now? These boys need to be freed from this!

Newyorkstateofmind said...

Jerri Lynn Ward, J.D. 2:01

Thanks for the clarification on CGM's potential exposure to criminal liability. Even a misdemeanor can mean 6 months in jail in most jurisdictions. Naturally, I'm not holding my breath that CGM will even be charged when this is all over, half less made to spend a day in jail.

Newyorkstateofmind said...

Debrah,

While this note is not quite an apology, it is clear I mistook in my even for me voluminous account of Western Civilization the tenor of some of the posts about you to mean you were overly invested in PC notions about how white bigotry accounts for an underappreciation of black achievement and an inability for whites in general to simply see blacks "doing the right thing" as well...doing the right thing, but nothing extraordinary.

Now it looks as if your views may actually be rather in alignment with mine...but even more to the right. Tell you what, do me the favor of googling Thomas Sowell, and check out excerpts from his books and articles. He's one of the staunchest and most lucid writers you will ever read on the issues of political correctness generally, and various black leaders shakedown rackets in particular.

Anonymous said...

NYSM:

Sowell is a lightweight.

Name 1 original thought he's contributed to ANYTHING.

RP

Anonymous said...

"New York State of Mind"---

Sorry for the late reply. Had to have a dinner snack and take care of a UPS delivery.....20 designer candles that I ordered...the three wick variety and they are exquisite. It has taken an hour to unwrap them and put them away. (I'm on a candle kick right now. :>) )

About your posts....they are very enjoyable. Much information, about some of which I am familiar already.

With all of the many posts deposited here, I understand why it's difficult to follow each exchange.

I am very familiar with the writers / commentators you cite. Thomas Sowell always gives a brilliant analysis. Such laser beam insight!

Larry Elder is an acquaintance of mine. We have corresponded frequently over the years. He's more of an entertainer along with having a very rational approach.

Both men are a bit more conservative than I, but I always enjoy their commentary.

Christopher Hitchens is my most favorite writer.

Do this: Go over to (JewishWorldReview.Com) and sign up for their daily e-mail. I love that website and you will benefit greatly from their newsletter. Sowell and all the rest are contributors.

Thanks for your great posts.

Debrah

Newyorkstateofmind said...

Debrah 9:52

I've been away from this blog for more than a day now (too much to do, oh so little time), and it feels like much too long already.

I really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed reply. Your designer candles sound fabulous by the way.

Although I haven't had websites send me daily emails in years, I may make an exception for jewishworldreview.com, which is a website I will certainly check out more often now; it's already on my Favorites shortcuts--where it's been for several years--of about a dozen political/social commentary websites I check periodically, 3 to 5 of these virtually everyday.

Christopher Hitchens! I guess it must be kismet if he is your favorite writer as well. Two of my favorite political TV moments involve him. One is where he briefly for a couple of weeks or so last year was on Chris Matthews Hardball show. As is so often the case with any forum in which he is a participant, he completely outshined all other guests in the thoroughness and intelligence and wit and even humor of his comments. As is so often the case as well, some guests at times and at turns various found his ever-ready erudition and quickness with just the right quip or bonmot to be irritating at best, or truly grating (given their own pedestrian gifts of communication and style) at worst. Into this latter camp fell more toughly than some of the other guests Matthews himself. In fact, Matthews bully-boy behavior, and glib, often unthoughtful commentary is so in contrast to Hitchens brilliance that I do believe the Hitchens sunshine was much, much too bright for the Hardball king. When Hitchens simply disappeared from the lineup of otherwise longtime appearing guests, I surmised his departure had more to do with Matthews' ego than Hitchens schedule.

The other priceless Hitchens moment was when in the 90's he was browbeating yet another inadequately informed political honcho on CNN or something, virtually verbally assaulting this poorly organized, verbally challenged, and stylistically banal commentator with a fusillade of righteous indignation about the essential moral and even practical compulsion to intervene in Kosovo now. While I think history has already shown that the EU a la Nato/US intervention in Kosovo was mostly misplaced, Hitchens as usual built a compelling, fact-laden, finely-turned case with his typically brilliant sprinkling onto his verbiage of the greatest one-liners and analogies and quips any human speaking English has possibly ever uttered.

Getting back to the non-Hitchens world, and the fate of the Duke Three, and now increasingly the aftermath of Nifong's recusal...I look forward to any other posts you may relate on these topics...and any other topics you feel moved to discuss.

Newyorkstateofmind said...

anon 7:20

As to whether Sowell is a "lightweight," a cursory read of his writeup on Wikipedia may give other bloggers, if not yourself, a different perspective on that subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Thomas_Sowell

And as to the notion that Sowell has never contributed even one original thought to anything...well, first of all depending on how you are defining "original," the same could be said at most times in relation to most matters about virtually anyone, educated or thoughtful or not.

I'll simply excerpt the following sentence--again from the Wikepedia article on him--by way of answering your claim of his lack of original thinking. Again, others on this blog may have a somewhat different view on this than you do.

"The book [one of the dozens written by Sowell] contradicts speculation by Simon Baron-Cohen that Einstein may have suffered from Asperger's Syndrome."

Onto more conventional topics, the Wikepedia columnist took pains I would imagine to reproduce in his Wikepedia writeup of Sowell literally dozens of verbatim Sowell quotes from his huge body of work. While the following quote is not strictly-speaking "original," it is certainly striking and creative:

"If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today."