Friday, January 19, 2007

The State NAACP's Hypocrisy

“Despite being the author of a list of 82 ‘Crimes and Torts committed by Duke Lacrosse Team Players’ on the state NAACP’s news Web site, [NAACP legal redress committee lawyer Al] McSurely said he and the organization he represents have always advocated for the fair treatment of ‘both sides’.”
--Herald-Sun, today

Just what’s in that McSurely-authored memorandum, posted on the state NAACP’s website, that McSurely lauded as demonstrating the organization’s fairness to “both sides”:

  • “The only Black [lacrosse] player, a freshman, left the party before the dancers arrived.” [This statement is untrue, as Devon Sherwood confirmed when he spoke with ABC; even Nifong had never made such a claim.]
  • “The lacrosse team member asked the women to dance and simulate sex acts between them, similarly to scenes from a book and movie that several of the Lacrosse team members enjoyed reading and talking about—American Psycho.” [No evidence for either part of this assertion exists; Kim Roberts, certainly, has never made such a claim.]
  • “After about three minutes of dancing . . . there were racial remarks made.” [No evidence for this assertion exists; indeed, Kim Roberts, both in her statement to police and in her interview with Ed Bradley, expressly denied the claim.]
  • “Other men noticed Ms. M seemed quite vulnerable after drinking the clear liquid.” [No evidence exists that “Ms. M” drank any “clear liquid”—the statements of both Roberts and the captains held that “Ms. M” drank a rum and coke, which is not clear; and, of course, the tox screen on “Ms. M” was negative.]
  • “Around 12:20, some men who saw the vulnerable Ms. M returning to the house called their friends who had taken cabs and gone to get some cash from an ATM. Some returned. Sometime between approximately 12:21 and 12:53, Ms. M has stated she was kidnapped into the bathroom, beaten, robbed, choked, and vaginally and anally raped.” [The memo, alas, was based on Nifong’s previous timeline and his old theory of the crime; the purpose of this item seemed to be to suggest that Reade Seligmann could be something other than demonstrably innocent.]
  • “The Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE) at Duke Hospital confirmed [the accuser’s] injuries matched her reports when she was examined about 2 hours later.” [As Nifong himself has now conceded, this assertion is wholly false, since neither physical nor forensic evidence exists of rape.]
  • “Theresa Arico, the SANE coordinator at Duke Hospital said ‘there was a certain amount of blunt force trauma present to create injury’ and that the injuries the victim suffered were ‘consistent with the story she told.’ The ER doctor on duty that night also has reported that Ms. M. suffered trauma consistent with her story.” [Arico’s comments referred to a generic definition of “blunt force trauma,” not this specific case. No evidence exists that the ER doctor gave the statement that the NAACP claims.]
  • “The three defendants they have two mountains to climb. First, they must deflect public attention from their boorish, racist, and illegal behavior by mounting outlandish attacks on the survivor and the D.A. Second, they must deal with a mountain of physical evidence, that is corroborated by, we have reason to believe, accounts of some of the men who were at the party who have cooperated with the police and the D.A. from early on.” [No evidence exists that any player provided statements to Nifong that told the story the D.A. wanted to hear.]
  • “[Joseph] Neff apparently has complete access to the records Nifong has turned over to [Joseph] Cheshire, as long as Neff spins the story against the State.” [This claim is absurd; the NAACP exhibited no problems with the reporting of Neff when Neff worked to free a falsely imprisoned African-American, Howard Dudley.]

The above constitutes fairness to the lacrosse players, according to the North Carolina NAACP.


Anonymous said...

K.C., this is an excellent post. Both of us have been called racists for publicly disagreeing with the NAACP, but the truth still remains that the organization has been trying to spin a story that simply is wrong. I don't think this is due to ignorance, but rather is an attempt to try to force a railroading of innocent people.

By the way, the NAACP site also implies that Alan Gell really was guilty of murder, and that Joe Cheshire simply is one of those "clever lawyers" who is able to get guilty people acquitted when they kill someone. You know, like Johnny Cochran.

Howard said...

This always was, and now is, a race case: finding whitey and hanging him. The NAACP is focusing on the case because they don't have any other pinata to clobber. Going after whitey means money comes in from wealthy racist Blacks. The NAACP stopped being fair when they ran that ad with the kid being dragged to death.

Anonymous said...

Organizations like the National Advancement of Colored People do nothing but divide people further. More racism is usually their goal, without it their donations diminish.


Anonymous said...

KC- An off-subject question:
Any idea when the state bar ethics committee will release their decision?

Anonymous said...

Yikes, the billion dollar victim industry is gearing up for what they think will be a big payoff.

I wish the Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson would take his brethren out behind the wood shed and whip some sense into them.

Unfortunately, his voice is ignored by racist blacks, even though he truly embodies, and does not pervert, the principles of the late MLK.


Anonymous said...

Ugh... thats low on the Gell case, even for the local NAACP here.

Sorry this is completely off topic, but I was reading up on the gell case and found out he was arrested again in april of 2006 on charges of statutory rape?

Anyone heard anything else about this since then?

Anonymous said...

I think the Gell case and the aftermath raises interesting issues, and something I have said in conversation, but not in print. Not only innocent people are messed over by prosecutorial misconduct, but guilty people, too. That is, people who may be guilty of doing one thing, but then are falsely charged with something else.

An attorney sent me some information on his client that really is mind-boggling, and I will be writing on that in the future. But, take a person like Gell, who generally was a petty criminal, or at least had an arrest record. He was relatively easy to frame, because his record gave him less credibility with the jury.

It is hard for people to understand the idea that the system also does guilty people wrong. Yet, it does. Many people who have had arrest records still are in shock at some of the tactics used by prosecutors, and for good reason.

Anonymous said...

North Carolina has 2 delivered by Jesse Helms and Eric Rudolph(and all their NASCAR supporters),the other from Mike Nifong and The Group of 88(and all their leftwing conspirocy nuts).I wouldn't set foot in NC if you paid me!

Anonymous said...

After about three minutes of dancing . . . there were racial remarks made.” [No evidence for this assertion exists; indeed, Kim Roberts, both in her statement to police and in her interview with Ed Bradley, expressly denied the claim.]

The Paula Zahn CNN piece not only made this exact same claim, but also stated that both sides agreed that this claim was true.

From the 1/16/07 CNN transcript :

"(on camera): Both sides agree on the following. They say there was underage drinking at a lacrosse party held at this off-campus home rented by several of the players. Two strippers were hired to perform that night, one black, the other biracial.

At some point during the party, someone made a sexual reference to using a broomstick on the young women. Racial slurs were hurled at the dancers. From this point on, the stories differ drastically."

Anonymous said...

Bill -

I do understand what you mean.

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

-H.L. Mencken

I was mostly curious if anything had happened scince the april arrest, the case sounds like the girl was pretty messed up emotionally (NOT an excuse for Gell, if he did what is alledged).

One of the things with the Duke case is that for once we don't have to defend scoundrels... the 3 they actually indicted are about a straight arrow as you can get in college. Based on the quote above, that says nothing good about the states of justice in Durham.

Anonymous said...

I would be scared to death to send my kids to college in that state.

Anonymous said...

Who was the protester - Chan? - at least honest enough to admit that it didn't matter if the LAX players were innocent, they should still pay for past injustices to blacks?

This is what Cash Michaels, the NAACP, Holloway, Curtis et al. mean, they just don't feel absolutely comfortable saying it. That stance is forcing them to come up with some pretty big whoppers, though.

Maybe if the LAX boys would just agree to go to jail for this crime, those folks would agree to admit that there never was one.

Anonymous said...


I’m a young moderate who leans to the right to stay as far away from liberal “victims” as I can. Hearing these PC group’s continuous crying makes me sick, and the biased media loves to cover & distort it (as in this case). A lot of my values are aligned with leftist principles, but I could never associate myself with a group that exhibits non stop victim-hood mentality. I know you are self described democrat, and I wonder how covering a case like this effects your opinions regarding many people within your own party? I’m still in the process of forming my political ideologies, so I’m just curious.

Keep up the great work. I love seeing your critics get angry because they thought they could further their own agendas by rushing to judgement. DisgrAce.

AMac said...

As of this writing, the link to the NAACP web site in the body of the post is still good. It goes to the page containing 82 numbered contentions about the case, "Posted: 01:07, Wednesday, August 9, 2006."

While some of the points are factual, many were already known to be false by last August. Many others are now known to be untruths.

All of the misrepresentations and falsehoods favor the "alleged victim." None favor the actual victims of the case.

I wonder how long it will take for the NC chapter of the NAACP to solve this problem of cognitive dissonance by taking down the linked web page?

Darned Google cache.

Anonymous said...

An off-topic question for KC:

If we are to believe the Group of 88, this was about larger issues and not these particular players. If this is true, then why hold the demonstrations in front of the players' home? Or do the demonstrations that the G88 say they did not support include all of those in front of 610 Buchanan?

Anonymous said...

The G88 intheir only lucid moment had enough sense to pull the listening statement off Duke's server. When is the NC NCAAP going to remove this collection of lies?

Anonymous said...

As my uncle used to say, "never let the facts get in the way of a good story".

It is a shame that Al McSurely would allow these blatantly erroneous statements to remain posted on the NAACP website.

On the other hand, it probably allows the falsely accused young men to add the NAACP to their list of potential defendants in a civil suit...

Anonymous said...

Hell, I was stunned that the H-S even mentioned McSurley's list of 82 "Crimes and Torts committed by Duke Lacrosse Team Players".

One should never expect the H-S to also mention how inaccurate, or dated, the list is now.

The parallels between the NAACP's & G88's rewriting of what they've said / done in the past is instructive.

Anonymous said...

I thought the NAACP was to involved at NCCU,in regards to why african americans are killing one another as in the killing of the honer student at NCCU.

Anonymous said...


"...of course, the tox screen on “Ms. M” was negative."

It is most unfortunate that a tox screen & BAC apparently wasn't run on CGM that night/morning in Duke ER. Tho I wonder if testing was done, and it's sealed w/ her other medical records?

The hair follicle test that was done ~1 month later also (apparently) didn't test for several of the most common date rape drugs. I'm not saying this to suggest that she was drugged, but only to say that the testing was insufficient to prove otherwise.

Anonymous said...

Life seems to be immitating art.

I'm reading allusions to "American Psycho" everywhere, and seeing some of its passion play, in very real life, in this case.

Ironically, the 'Patrick Batemans' in this case have almost certainly done nothing wrong.

Anyone know in whose class 'American Psycho' had been assigned? I'd be curious to know if it was one of the 88.

I'd like to find some reason to congratulate one of them for something.

Anonymous said...

The "date rape drug" claim is one that almost surely can be debunked on its face. A woman who has been given a "date rape drug" is not going to be fighting off attackers, and surely is not going to have the pinpoint memory that Crystal claimed to have at that lineup last April.

I don't know if the "date rape drug" comments were included in the bar association's list of charges against Nifong, but they should have been if they are not. If Crystal really had been given a date rape drug and then actually raped, she would have known:

1. She actually had been raped,
2. Should would have had no memory or a vague memory at best of the incident.

This is and always has been a red herring, and part of the Big Lie that Nifong and his supporters have been giving us.

Anonymous said...

To me, the most galling thing about the NAACP's report and what it has done in the aftermath is that the people there are telling us that medical science does not matter, nor does DNA matter, unless it is in favor of the prosecution. The same organization that campaigned for the release of Darryl Hunt now is taking similar information and turning it on its head, saying either that it does not matter, or it does not "prove" that a rape DID NOT OCCUR. Therefore, under such reasoning, a rape occurred.

I never have seen an organization literally try to overturn advances in medical science just so it could railroad through a dishonest conviction. Once the bane of prosecutors, the NAACP has become an arm of the prosecutorial state. I hate to say it, but that is NOT progress.

Anonymous said...

12:18 Bill Anderson:

"The "date rape drug" claim is one that almost surely can be debunked on its face."

Thank you, Bill. My comments were meant to answer folks who claim that the tox test 'proved' that she had not been drugged.

In fact, her behaviour that night and the next morning is the proof, as you said.

Good question re: if the date rape drug hypothetical was listed in the NC State Bar complaint, I'll look now. If it is, it apparently didn't rise to the level of misleading or fraud, else the Bar would have categorized it with the condom charge. Would also have to see if his statement came after the tox test ws done - I don't recall Crystal saying that she hadn't been drugged (that's what caught Nifong on the condom comment).

Anonymous said...

What do you expect from a wacko like McSurely? He has a completely warped sense of justice. He is always quick to play the race card and spin the facts every which way.

Anonymous said...

This post is not really relevant to this article but will be as this matter unfolds over the next few weeks. Most police departs have books on how to proceed with an investigation, and the advice to take a prompt statement is in the first chapter. I'll bet that the Durham police has a policy to do so.

In my career as a prosecutor, my experience was that the one of the very first actions of law enforcement agencies in an investigation, from small town police departments to federal, would be to take a detailed statement from the complainant. These would consist of a narrative in the complainant's words and specific follow-up questions to clear up anything that was ambiguous.

I have seen statements taken, within a day or so of the alleged incident, from hospitalized complainants who had been treated far worse than the AV claimed she was in this case. This case first went off track when the decision was made not to tie down the story of the AV. Based upon what has come out subsequently, this intentional omission could, in my opinion, be the basis for a federal civil rights law suit as well as, when taken with the other misconduct, a civil rights prosecution. The claim can be made this no statement was taken from the AV to keep alive a fradulent case.

What will be interesting now will be the extent to which potential defendants cooperate with the investigations, although I presume Mr. Nifong will have to do so, at least to a point.

I have not seen information as to whether the state bar has subpoena power to compel attendance at their hearings for Mr. Nifong. If they do not, it will be somewhat more difficult to prove exactly what happened to produce the rigged photo showup and the unrevealed DNA results. The perfect position for those prosecuting the various claims against Mr. Nifong will be if they can compel the police officers to attend the state bar hearings where, I'll bet, they'll begin to dump on him.

However, an important consideration for the police officers will be whether they should assert their privileges against self-incrimination. In view of the possible civil rights criminal prosecutions, this should be a real worry for them, and will be a blockbuster if any of them refuse to cooperate.

Anonymous said...

National Association for the Advancement of the NAACP.

But then, what else do you expect from any organization. Does this organization really "represent" anyone? I seriously doubt that. They are more like a "service" organization, is in the American Red Cross, but selective in who they choose to service. That is all well and good.

Except in this case, they have done far worse then discriminating and are assisting in malicious persecution, race-baiting and lying (though they have the decency to leave this documented.)

Anonymous said...

"The hair follicle test that was done ~1 month later also (apparently) didn't test for several of the most common date rape drugs. I'm not saying this to suggest that she was drugged, but only to say that the testing was insufficient to prove otherwise."

The medication that we know she was on (Flexeril) combined with the amount of alcohol she is known to have consumed before and during the party is enough to suggest that she was incapicated by that combination alone (alcohol and flexeril do not mix - read the labels).

Also the accuser has a history of this sort of behavior (stumbling, blacking out, etc) which suggests that this was no different.

Then you have the issue of the Flexeril: the Duke physician that treated her after the allegations (ie when she came back to try to get narcotics) noted that given her history (mental and perhaps drug abuse I guess) she should not get anything. I wonder exactly how she managed to get the Flexeril (assuming it was procured legally) - doctor shopping etc?

Then there is the question as to why an initial tox screen was not done. This could be because she either refused to take it or because the SANE trainee neglected to do it even though she should have (per prior KC posts concerning the SANE woman that posts on this subject).

If she refused it I would question whether she was on other medications besides flexeril. That she acknowledged that med indicates that she likely procured it legally but she still may have been taking other things.

There is a final concern: whether or not she was taking her meds for bipolar disorder (I actually believe her diagnosis is schizoaffective disorder, bipolar mood type). She was or has been on Depakote and Seroquel. Depakote is used to prevent seizures and to treat bipolar disorder. Contrary to lots of articles IT IS NOT AN ANTI-PSYCHOTIC (I also believe it is not effective, Lithium is far more effective). Tegretol, Neurontin (not so much anymore, little evidence it 'works'), and Lamictal are also used to treat bipolar disorder (Lamictal is the most expensive).

Seroquel is an anti-psychotic and has serious side effects including lethargy etc. It is not something you want to combine with alcohol. (You can also get permanent movement disorders which are rare but something to keep in mind) She likely took it when she was hospitalized because I do believe she likely had a really bad manic episode that led to a diagnosis of psychosis. Again, taking drugs legal or illegal that are contraindicated for people with bipolar disorder will exacerbate mood swings (and make them more severe).

If she is still taking Seroquel she has schizoaffective disorder, bipolar mood type. If she isn't it was for a psychotic episode resulting from a severe manic episode (bipolar disorder).

I would really like to dispel the notion that all people with a mental illness should be suspect when their credibility is at stake. CGM's is because she exhibited behavior that indicates she was not complying with her treatment program. I am a bit unhappy to see posters (liestoppers, other places) suggest that all people with bipolar disorder are suspect.

Bipolar disorder does not really affect memory recall. You can vividly remember details and are not impaired unless you are at a really severe 'high'. For those on medication who have stable moods this should be a non-issue. Once treated you are basically 'normal' but wish you were able to experience the emotions that you previously did - which is why many people stop taking medication.

I have bipolar disorder and take Lithium and Lamictal. I adhere to my regiment religiously and have not had a real mood swing in 4 years, ie, when I started taking the two (prior meds did not work including depakote, neurontin, tegretol, etc - I had to basically issue an ultimatum to get Lithium which is not in 'vogue' mainly due to side effects, blood tests, and drug reps).

I would, however, question the recall of someone on drugs that interfered with recall or someone with schizoaffective disorder that was not stable (which appears to be the case).

Anonymous said...

Why are Duke, the Board of Directors, Brodhead & Alumni allowing this bunch of misfits to destroy Duke's reputation? It doesn't make sense.

Anonymous said...

It amazes me that so many "Reverends" involved in the NAACP seem to have no qualms about "bearing false witness against thy neighbor." Guess racism trumps Christianity.

Anonymous said...

Excellent post. It no longer surprises me however that the NAACP is full of hypocrites. The group certainly does not advocate the advancement for all colored people anymore, only the ones that agree with them. The NAACP has become the ultimate shill.

I may have missed it, but I haven't seen the ACLU pick up the cause for this case either. I'll normally disagree with 98% of what they do, but occassionaly we'll end up on the same side of the aisle. Seems like they should be supporting a case where liberties have been trampled.

Anonymous said...

1 poster elsewhere commented that this case has always been about race

allow me to expand on his point: what this case highlights is the failure of integration--from the caucasian's perspective. Simply stated, integration is good for blacks, and a disaster for whites and asians


1. Unintelligent, racist blacks enjoying their entitlements all the while trying to railroad innocent whites.

2. Logically fearful of a racist Durham "community," whitey was forced to spend extra money on a venue motion to avoid a hateful black jury.

3. How much money is whitey paying for social services, police, and academic welfare in Durham?

4. A "voice of reason," the NAACP is also invested in railroading your children, but whitey helps finance it.

From an Asian's or caucasian's POV, please brief me about any positives derived from integration.

Anonymous said...

Several years ago Rush began referring to the NAACP as the NAALCP, with the L, of course, standing for "liberal". NAARCP might also be appropriate, with the R being "racist". Their top Grand Poobah, nationally, is the evil racist Julian Bond.

Anonymous said...

Having the NAACP only continues to take us backwards instead of forwards.

Anonymous said...

anybody see the word 'flexeril' in the naacp report?

Anonymous said...

Cash Michaels' "5 levels of separation" epithet piece graces the front page of this week's "Carolina Peacemaker", Greensboro's popular Black Press newspaper.

I also saw this story on their website.

Props to the Godfather and all, but the "most influential musician in history"?

Roll over Beethoven, tell Tchaikovsky the news.

Anonymous said...

1:34 - I don't think its helpful to judge the "success" of integration in the context of this case. Integration "works" in communities where there are shared values of honesty, hard work, respect for other people and the value of education (collectively, these attributes mean "Principled"). I live in a very nice suburb of Washington DC. I have black and Asian and Hispanic neighbors, and I would generally characterize them as Principled individuals, who just happen to belong to a certain racial or ethnic group. This isn't to say there isn't any racism in the community, but the common bonds of being "Principled" outweigh any racial issues and make that at most annoying distractions. Being "Principled" is of course what the NAACP should strive for - it is the way to universally appeal to people and to avoid becoming mere racial extortionists or shills for an questionable "I get what I can grab" cause. I am greatly disappointed they are acting completely contrary to that objective here. It will harm their interests in the long run.

The pain in the black community, particularly among those who have an awareness of the deep and abiding dysfunction that exists in a significant black underclass, must be really deep, and must drive quite a bit of denial in terms of not recognizing the obvious pathologies, symbolized in all of their notorious glory, and not too subtly, by Crystal Mangum and her conduct in the case, accompanied also, of course, by a merry caste of radical white enablers. (Note that they are not "liberal" enablers - true liberals are principled and ethical - see. e.g., Professor James Coleman, but delusional radicals).

Put simply, it must be so painful (especially given the courageous fight by so many for civil rights in the 40.'s, 50's, and 60's) to continuously observe the massive pathologies - the out of control incarceration rate, the even more out of control rate of violent crime (including rape), the rate of out of wedlock birth with very little family formation or significant black male involvement thereafter, and the absymal state of educational achievement in the community in the context of an increasingly demanding information economy that a guaranteed recipe for real, as opposed to university imagined, social disaster. But this pain (although we should be sensitive to it as a matter of civility) cannot be a rationalization for denial of the problem, or be used to somehow justify "un-Principled" behavior or conduct -- as the NAACP, the Duke 88/87, Cash Michaels, et, al are doing.

And let's get real. I have posted here before (a former Duke athlete). I like 99% of Duke athletes (particularly those of us on scholarship) knew when we competed and know now that wearing Duke on our back meant something and by and large, guess what - we knew damn well that we had to act Principled. Not perfect, mind you - but Principled. Most people don't make it either academically or athletically at an intense competitive place like Duke without being Principled. So I would ask the black community in Durham and the NAACP if they really, I mean really think that people like me, and others just like me, would really support the Duke lacrosse team if the accusations of a gang rape had any truth or veracity to them. Of course not. I suggest they digest this reality, and quickly, because continued delusions will only continue to hurt a community with mind boggling pathologies.

Anonymous said...

I genuinely feel for principled members of the black community, who trying very hard to make their way honestly in this world. I really admire people who don't make excuses or try to claim entitlements. The more I read of idiots like the NAACP and the race industry, the more I want to reach out to other people in their community trying to make an honest living.

Anonymous said...

"To me, the most galling thing about the NAACP's report and what it has done in the aftermath is that the people there are telling us that medical science does not matter, nor does DNA matter, unless it is in favor of the prosecution.

OJ Simpson Redux. In some circles, DNA doesn't matter. Scary, isn't it.

Anonymous said...

This new NAACP message to the NC state prosecutors is very disturbing to the hope of getting a full and healthy resolution of this case.

The NAACP and NC Democrat party have long held a thinly veiled symbiotic relationship. (The pandering for votes, and the 'block vote held hostage' game.)

Anonymous said...

3:09 - there are quite a number of people in the black community who know a con when they see one - and they know one exists here. They just cannot bring themselves to say so publicly. And in this vein you are correct to feel for them.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 3:09 -

You should check out this guy:

The Other Jesse

There is hope.


Anonymous said...

A pal has given a small donation to the NAACP for over twenty years. He's rock solid right and I thought him daft.

He explained, if he were ever audited by the IRS, it would likely be by a Democrat or minority who would provide a benefit of the doubt look at the return(s) in question. I still thought him daft, until now.

It appears he was right and those that see the world like the NAACP would likely show favoritism.

Regardless, I always thought it very, very funny.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous 3:23 -

Check the link to the Other Jesse above. He went on Fox and decried black on white racism and the victim industry scam.


Anonymous said...

Durham - what a joke they've become

-Fallen so far from the late Eighties when "Bull Durham" was a hit. - After that flick, Durham achieved "Everyman" status.

- So many associated Durham with the honest effort and struggle to succeed in minor league sports.

Now, they're associated with "anything but" honesty or success. The City is associated with a corrupt government (DA/DPD) and a hapless stripper.

I guess reality trumps theater, in the end.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for exposing the hypocritical racists in the NC NAACP for what they are.

Anonymous said...

3:23 PM

"They just cannot bring themselves to say so publicly. And in this vein you are correct to feel for them."

Why can't they bring themselves to speak out publicly? Those that see the wrong and let these failed organizations and 'leaders' speak for them are failures.

What a shame the Jesse Peterson has to be flown from show to show across this nation to be a alternative voice of black reason. Why are he and a handful of others left to speak out for millions who should speak for themselves?

Anonymous said...

1:34: I disagree. I think true integration is great for everyone.

The problem - The NAACP does not stand today for true integration. It stands for the proposition that all the animals in the barnyard are created equal, but some are more equal than others. Thus, they demand recognition of Blacks as a group, rights, status, etc., but NOT integration. Integration would be a repudiation to what they consider purely "black" culture. Instead, they ask for "cultural awareness." Thus, and oddly, a separate status, but equal (Brown v. Board of Education stands on its head).

Their position fly squarely in the face of true integration, and have caused a general regression of advancement rather than a progression. The intelligent member of the AA community, those with true drive, are at the same time labelled as sellouts (or other choice phrases) to the "White" community in which they have become integrated. Success by fellow Blacks in corporate America is deeply distrusted within the NAACP worldview.

I truly hope and pray the idiocy of the NC NAACP's position reveals them in many ways as a hinderance, rather than a help, to Blacks in this country. I hope it calls for true soul searching, and a call for true individualism. Success should be lauded, not hamstrung with caveats and rules.


Anonymous said...

BTW, I guess Reade was not only able to go to the ATM, go back to the party (depending on a time line one wants to choos), rape the girl, then also get back to his dorm and check in there (The NAACP seems to want to ignore the dorm check in). I mean, this guy is superman if he can do all that in 15-20 minutes...

Anonymous said...

I am curious as to their take on the Koby Bryant case, muust also be racism against blacks, Koby was falsely accused by a white woman !!

Anonymous said...

It is intriguing that no one has thought to speculate that the team, all but one of whose DNA was excluded from that found in an on CGM, might be covering up for the one that got away.

After all, this is and equal opportunity country, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

There is more to it than this, let's face it, the AG is a democrat, and knows he cannot inflame the black community, so the NAACP is flexing its political muscle to put pressure on him to do something other than the right thing.
I like Joe Cheshire, I hope he is slowly loading his gun, and when he fires back, it will be devastating. It was a lawyer who wrote the NAACP stance, if he is in fact misconstruing the truth, can he not be held liable for not upholding the ethics code of the State Bar ?

Anonymous said...

Hypocrisy is too nice a word for this. What I see as I read their screed is good old fashion hate-speech. They lie, they manufacture emotionally loaded imagery, and they do it all while knowing what the real facts are.
The style they deploy is recognizable to anyone who has ever read Mein Kampf and such ilk.
But this part is strange: hate speech has traditionally been used by a powerful group to dehumanize a despised minority as a prelude to suppressing or getting rid of them. If a group is not really powerful, but just thinks they are, perhaps they might be tempted to use it. Or maybe they are simply very stupid.
I mean, what else is hate speech used for by rational actors? If suppression or expulsion of a group is just not on, what is the thinking behind publically telling hurtful lies about them?

Unknown said...

Very good work exposing the state NAACP
railroading the 3 players.This is a very bad sign of an organization that has done great work defending people unjustly accused. Bill Anderson wrote a great article about the NAACP. They have historically been weak on rape cases. In the scotboro case they at first refused to touch it, didnt want to be tainted with defending a bunch of rapists.
Keep on pressing the truth KC
Does the national NAACP need reminding of their out of control state chapter?

Anonymous said...

To 4:11
There are several types of "power." One is "preceived power." The group actually IN power is under the preception that the other group actually has power that it does not. Preceived Power is every bit as powerful as REAL power, until the perception is dispelled. Make sense?

Anonymous said...

Just as in the 'Scottsboro boys' cases, the NAACP is once again late to the party.

Anonymous said...

"Does the national NAACP need reminding of their out of control state chapter?"

What makes you think that national takes a more moderate or truthful approach than the NC chapter? I seem to remember some pretty inflammatory and equally false national NAACP ads a few years ago. The James Byrd 'dragging' ad was just as knowingly untruthful.

Anonymous said...

Is there anyone in the NC NAACP who thinks that 3 white men should go to prison for 30 years for a comment they did not make which was provoked in the first place by a black woman?

A. Clearly, Yes.
B. A and B are the only answers.

james conrad said...

politics politics politics, the naacp has been reduced, along with others, to basically be a front group for the dem. party. its really kinda sad

Anonymous said...

IMHO groups like NAACP are one of the big reasons why someone like Obama will not make it as president. He won't be able to avoid them, and sooner or later they will sink him by doing or saying stupid things like they are doing now.

jack d

Anonymous said...

Esquire sez......."Their position fly (sic) squarely in the face of true integration."
I'm sure glad KC didn't pick you to help write his book. You must be totally out of touch with anyone in the black community. Are you that unintelligent or are you just high on trying for pretty words which are meaningless? All you add is banality substituting for expertise. On what? Navel gazing?
Get a clue Essy!
The black community and specifically the NAACP don't want to truly integrate. Most make a lucrative living promoting methods of segregation.

Anonymous said...

I am a "white boy" and have been outraged at Nifong's miscarriage of justice from the start, so don't think from what I am about to say that I am an apologist for the NAACP, because I am not.

However, I think that the attack on the NAACP in this case is unfair. There seem to be two views at the NAACP, Barber and McSurely. If you read Barber's early pronoucement, he was calling for calm and a wait and see demeanor. McSurely, on the other hand has been purely racist in his screams from the left side of the bell curve.

The lastest writing is from Barber, and it does not seem inconsistent from his early views.

Admittedly, if one were to look solely at the NAACP as a body and not the the particular views of it individual members, one would conclude that the organization is hypocritical. However, Barber seems very consistent in his views. Perhaps we should cut the guy some slack.

Mike in Nevada

M. Simon said...

Bill 11:26AM,

What happens because of such "round up the usual suspects" tactics is that DAs and police become sloppy.

Then a "Duke" comes up and they are not ready to do their jobs.

THe OJ case looks to me like an attempt to frame a guilty man. It backfired.

Duke Meets OJ


Anonymous said...

Here is an interesting development from Texas: a man was exonerated of a rape due to DNA evidence:

The man was black and he was convicted on eyewitness testimony, but DNA tests showed he was not the rapist. (The rape happened in 1983 before there was reliable DNA testing.)

My point is this: If we apply the standards of justice that the NC NAACP are demanding, then this man needs to go back to prison. Now, I am sure that the NAACP would claim that this is "different," but, medically and scientifically, the case for innocence is not.

Furthermore, there really WAS a rape in the Texas case. Authorities got the wrong man. In the Duke case, there was no rape, so the NAACP is in the position of both promoting a hoax and also actively trying to frame three innocent men. For that, there is no excuse. None.

Anonymous said...

Bill Anderson sez...

My point is this: If we apply the standards of justice that the NC NAACP are demanding, then this man needs to go back to prison. Now, I am sure that the NAACP would claim that this is "different," but, medically and scientifically, the case for innocence is not.

You know that medicine and science are the tools of the patriarchal white oppressors, and that they are invalidated by the lived experiences of the oppressed and downtrodden, don't you?

Roughly translated: "We don't need no honky shit."

Anonymous said...

Bill Anderson - great point.

Cedarford - your ideas remind me a bit of the John Birch Society, and I'm a Republican with strong libertarian leanings.

M. Simon said...

Here is a bit I did some time back explaining why sexually abused children take strong drugs:


And another one on what the NIDA has to say about Addiction:

Addiction Is A Genetic Disease

Anonymous said...

This is the wrong place to put this, but there was an interesting editorial in the Baltimore Sun this morning by Kathleen Parker called "Too Smart by Half" that makes the argument that we are all victims of political correctness by glorifying a stripper. Very interesting.

Anonymous said...

5:06 That is a very large leap to suggest the NAACP message is reflected via a bell curve of opinions. That bell is one bent s.o.b.

Anonymous said...

Oops. The piece by Parker was an op-ed not an editorial. Sorry

Anonymous said...

George W. Bush lowered taxes so dat Ann Coulter, da Jews, big corporations, an' Republicans could kill Al Franken. and git Sheniquah's ass back ova' heeah.

M. Simon said...

C4 6:06PM,

Blacks and Jews used to be very tight. They split on lines of interest. Affirmative action or quotas.

Quotas would help blacks get in schools, quotas kept Jews out.

Jews were unwilling to back quotas. Blacks wanted them and got them. Relations have never been the same.

Anonymous said...

You're confused. Al Franken's been dead for a long time.

Anonymous said...
Anybody untainted in that state?

M. Simon said...

anon: 5:21PM,

Unfortunately according to my understanding and knowledge C4 is correct.

White Marxists/socialists ran the NAACP. Black folks for decades were "fronts".

A sad but true fact of life is that communists spearheaded the racial equality movement from at least the 20s thru the 60s.

It is a stain on the right and the anti-socialist left.

Anonymous said...


Could you give me some references for reading on the history of the NAACP. My initial reaction to your essay is that it sounds like it was written by J. Edgar Hoover, who had little use for ex-communists, Jews or civil rights leaders (particularly King).

This phrase jumped out at me: "Now after 40 years of failure of the civil rights movement ..."

Forty years ago was 1967. I was a white boy in east Tennessee from 1953 to 1962, in Virginia the summer of 1971, in delta Mississippi the summer of 1972, in Virginia again 1973-74, in Georgia 1974-77, and since then back in Virginia. As some folks have said, "We're not where we want to be, but thank God we're not where we were."

Things have gone off track in race relations in the US, but I would hardly say the movement was a failure. I have seen a lot of progress in the places I have been, which you might agree have not been great examples of racial tolerance.

Anonymous said...


Where in East Tennessee?

Anonymous said...

5:25 My bell curve point is this: the AV said that she was raped. Two of the men ejaculated in her. No one wore condoms. She spit semen on the floor. There should have been semen in the bathroom and in every orifice of her body. But guess what - no semen! The probability of that happening is approximately zero. She was raped by 20 then 4 then 3 then 2. She first arrived at 11:30 danced and then was raped, but Seligman had an alibi for the time of the rape. So now the story is that she arrived at 11:10, presumably stripped, and was raped at 11:40. However, she was on her cell phone until 11:39 for 7 minutes during her dance session. Seligman was also on the phone during the time of the alledged assault.

The fifth or sixth story was that Seligman stood in front of her and "raped" her orally. The latest story is that he did not touch her but only watched.

Time stamped photos show her dancing after 12:00. She didn't cry rape until she was about to be committed. These inconsistencies go on and on.

Now by bell curve point is this. Anyone who claims to still believe CGM's putrid, vile lies is either a racist of the worst kind or so far on the left side of the bell curve as to be lucky to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

I don't believe that Barber falls into either category, but I am not inclined to give the same benefit of the doubt to McSurely.

Mike in Nevada

Anonymous said...

One of the ironic things about this case is that none of the NAACP folks, raving liberals in the Gang of 88, Al McSurely, or any of the rest of the folks trying to railroad these three young men would have given a tinker's damn about CGM had she not served as a convienient point on which to focus their dislike for whites. Can you see Peter Wood,Al McSurely , Rev. Barber, or any of the rest of them accepting her as an equal, inviting her to their home to eat, or wanting her to babysit their kids?
Once this is over, she'll be tossed aside like last weeks garbage.

Anonymous said...

m. simon

I'm 5:21 and I agree. That's not the point, it's the implication that all Jews are communists, in some ways similar to the rant that we hear now from the left of a Jewish Neocon conspiracy. It's all too convenient. Furthermore he has no evidence that "Jewish leadership introduced postmodernist "theater of unending grievances" and identity politics. In the early 60s, Jewish postmodern progressives. . . " He's anachronistic with the use of the term "Postmodernism." Postmodernism is a term from the seventies that became fashionable in the 80s, the result of the pathetic popularity of French Structuralists. Who are these early 60s Jewish postmodernists? I'm not Jewish, by the way.

Anonymous said...

KC, I think you missed a real whopper, number 66:

"Although the players first indicated they would voluntarily give DNA, a few days after the computers were seized, on March 20, a lawyer told the D.A. that none of the players would voluntarily submit to DNA tests. The State obtained a Court Order for the DNA."

Since when did they have to get a court order for the lacrosse player's DNA? That's a total fabrication.

Anonymous said...

re race relations

I have to agree, with reservations, with 1:34, who emphasized that integration is a failure, and that it mainly benefits blacks

Am I the only one to see the irony that the principal beneficiaries of white largesse--the black middle class--are also the group most hostile to whites?

These are the facts: the Karla Holloways of the world represent the creme de la creme of the black community, its most elite constituency, yet they despise white people

So, "integration" works in a suburb of Wash, DC? Let me guess: blacks represent less than 33% of all residents in the community

Is there a black agenda? I say definitely. It includes the following:

1. retardation of law enforcement's ability to crime fight (cf profiling)

2. being the beneficiary of huge transfer payments from the majority community, including housing subsidies, the huge cost of diversity oversight, welfare, Medicaid, education spending focusing on the dull as opposed to the talented

3. excused for antisocial behavior--eg, crime

4. quotas and affirmative action forever

5. permanent victim status

The above is played out every day at Duke, in the black media, and in the entire United States.

It's time that white stopped coddling blacks--and speaking of which, when is Duke going to act against those academic welfare thugs?

After all, boys and girls, if "integration" is a success, surely both blacks and whites will want to see justice served?

Roman Polanski

Anonymous said...

"the Karla Holloways of the world represent the creme de la creme of the black community"

I hardly think so.

Anonymous said...


Holloway occupies an endowed chair at a heretofore described elite university. She is definitely a member of Dubois's talented tenth. I would venture she's in the talented 1%.

She's brilliant.


Anonymous said...

‘It is not so much that people hate uncertainty but rather, they hate losing.’

‘A loss taken is an acknowledgement of error. Loss aversion combined with ego leads investors to gamble by clinging to their mistakes in the fond hope that some day the market will vindicate their judgment and make them whole.’

Economist Peter L. Bernstein, quoting behavioral psychologist Amos Tversky.

No parallels at all to this situation, are there?

Anonymous said...

Mike at 5:50, 5:25 here; thanks for the clarification. My point is that there's not likely an equal distribution of opinon between their points of view within the NAACP.

Just a quess...

Anonymous said...


that's brilliant

Anonymous said...

Dubois never included women in the 'Talented Tenth'. He was a real genius.

Anonymous said...

Actually, the DA did go to court for an order compelling all white members of the lacrosse team to provide DNA samples--but I haven't seen reported anywhere else that a lawyer for any of the players told the DA that they would not provide DNA voluntarily (and the apparent eagerness of the players to provide the DNA once the order was issued rather than try to fight the order suggests that, if such a conversation occurred, it was with a lawyer who did not consult the "clients" on the matter first).

Anonymous said...

What has the NAACP become, the black Ku Klux Klan?

McSurely would surely look appropriate wearing a robe and a funny hat, burning a cross on Collin, Reade, or David's lawn.

What a pathetic excuse for a man he is.

Sadly, perhaps the decline was inevitable. The NAACP is full of fat lazy racists who live off the contributions of idealistic people and foundations. Too bad the leaders never achieved getting decent educations for the majority of their constituency, and now we see the results.

They are parasites now, not even a shadow of the giants who created the organization. sic semper tyrannis

Anonymous said...

Professor Johnson,

Polanski has a better understanding of black culture than you, sad to say.

The NAACP is not hypocritical in the least. It is what it is.

Duke Mom

Anonymous said...

The NAACP has gone from a civil rights organization to a "shake down" organization that uses lies and false accusations under the veil of "racial equality" to extract as much money as possible from it's victims. The top levels in the NAACP are only interested in stirring the pot of racial hate and extorting money from corporations and those left wing liberals with guilty white man's syndrome. That they have linked themselves to the millionaire shakedown artist Jesse Jackson, is proof of their true intentions. The larger black population as a whole no longer benefits from the NAACP's actions - only the NAACP power structure benefits. The McSurely article is proof positive that the NAACP is not searching for the truth, but again stirring the Pot. To learn the NAACP's true intentions, as always just follow he money.

texasyank said...

So NOW the NAACP wants quiet.

Anonymous said...

KC it's obvious that you have become "demonstrably" infatuated with the word demonstrably. Is there another synonym for it? If so, in the future can you please substitute it.

Not quite the oppressors language

texasyank said...


Anonymous said...


right on

G88 learned at the altar of the NAACP

M. Simon said...


The early post modernists were some French Jews.

Well we still got Einstein and Milton Friedman.


Anonymous said...

Asking a black person to come out in the media or in print against the NAACP is like asking a Muslim to denounce the terrorist acts they see committed by other Muslims. They all want to be treated like the dont cause any problems yet wont speak out against their kind who are the root of their ethnic and racial actions.

And they wonder why we stereotype them.

kcjohnson9 said...

quick reply to Mike, 5.06:

I agree with the comment on the distinction between Barber's comments and McSurely's/Joyner's.

The problem is that Barber is the one who selected McSurely and Joyner. So it's hard to see how he can escape criticism for their actions

M. Simon said...

C4 usually has his facts down.

He may be a little twisty in his interpretation but, facts he has. I will note that he may edit to prove his point.

Who doesn't? It is why we have debate.

M. Simon said...

Roman 6:05PM,

You sound bitter. LOL.

Look at it another way. We are groping our way forward.

Integration has worked and it has spawned excesses. Time to trim the excess.

Anonymous said...

Duke Mom:

I understand your point. K.C. wants to hold them to their rhetoric. Both of you are right. (No, I am not a post-modernist, but still I understand both points. But then I am a "liberal" on racial matters. Except, of course, when I am a "racist" because I believe Crystal is lying -- just like the rest of Durham knows it, too.)

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

If you're quoting from or using the book the "Bell Curve" as a reference than you're not worth listening to. Stephen Jay Gould wrote a scathing rebuttal (The Mismeasure of man) to the ridiculous claims argued in the Bell Curve, and showed that not only was the methodology wrong, the conclusions they came to amounted to nothing more than stating that black people are inherently dumber than white people because of their skin color.

Anonymous said...

To funny - The Jews ( a religion - not an ethnic group) are both Capitalist and Communist, as are the rest of us. For those who do not remember JIm Crow was a burden to all Americans. So glad, we are done with that nonsence. What we need is for the black community to continue advancing toward middle class - rich is even better.

Anonymous said...

8"05 PM You might trying reading the Bell Curve - excellent book. The authors do not say blacks are dumber because of their color. No one is that stupid or at least no one I know. Instead of using the insight in the book to help make life for blacks better. it was ridiculed. Life for many blacks continues to be sad and hopeless.

Anonymous said...


re "Bell Curve"

What are you referring to?

No one was discussing this book.

Please explain.

Anonymous said...

8:18 The reference to the bell curve is from a 5:05 message. I think he, Mike, is referring to two opinions being at the opposing sides of the curve. My point is that his example suggests an equal distribution of NAACP opinion between those points.

Thanks for the tip on the book; I'll check it out.

Anonymous said...

If the NAACP really wanted to advance the cause for people of color, they would sign on people like James Coleman, LaShawn Barber and the good Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson. These folks represent intelligence, equality, and true advancement. Martin Luther King must be smiling down on them.

The NAACP should be renamed the NAARP, the National Association For the Advancement of Racism Personified. Hop on board with the bad Reverends Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the bad journalist Cash Michaels.

Anonymous said...


I think the line I liked the best was-

Second, they must deal with a mountain of physical evidence...

I can't decide whether the NAACP should immediately be accused of "making mountains out of molehills.", or should we just ask them to "take us to the mountain"?

Anonymous said...

8:05 lol, well maybe the book won't make my reading table...

Anonymous said...

To 8:05

Could you please tell us more about Stephen Jay Gould's "scathing claims" in "The Mismeasure of Man" concerning Murray's argument in "The Bell Curve." "The Mismeasure of Man" was written in 1981; "The Bell Curve" was written in 1994. That would be an interesting feat. You should consider reading both books.

By the way Murray, has a fascinating series of columns on education in the last three issues of the Wall Street Journal.

Anonymous said...

It is instructive to look at the DOJ Crime Victimization Page for 2005 for single offender victimizations, and work out what percentage of rapes/sexual assaults were committed by whites and blacks and so forth.

You might get a surprise.

M. Simon said...


Gould's Mismeasure of man has been so thouroughly debunked that if Gould were still alive he would br reeling every day from the blows.

It was debunked in an issue of "Nature Magazine" on neuro science.

Details at Gene Expressioin

M. Simon said...

8:31 PM,

Good discussion of The Bell Curve in This Thread.

Look for the first mention of IQ and then scroll down.

Anonymous said...

Just saw Paula Zahn's "Racism in America" special--ok, the last 30 min.

Am I wrong about this?

She failed to address:

1. antiwhite racism in Durham
2. Precious's sleazy history
3. affirmative action racists in Duke's AAAS dept
4. the national phenomenon of black victimhood BS
5. calling Precious what she is--a black thug


M. Simon said...

Two points from the Gene expression site:

The Mismeasure of Man didn't disprove the validity of IQ or factor analysis. It is a nontechnical work of propaganda aimed at the lay public. To clarify some points:

1. Factor analysis is just an application of abstract vector space theory, and if it was bunk, then there wouldn't be dozens of applications of it in fields ranging from chemistry to electrical engineering:

Factor analysis is a mathematical tool for examining a wide range of data sets, with applications especially important to the design of experiments (DOE), spectroscopy, chromatography, and chemometrics. Whereas the first two editions concentrated on standardizing the fundamentals of this emerging discipline, the Third Edition of Factor Analysis in Chemistry, the "bible" of factor analysis, proves a comprehensive handbook at a level that is consistent with the research and design of experiments today

2. If IQ was arrant nonsense, then brain structure wouldn't be STRONGLY correlated with it. (PS - This is from Nature Neuroscience ):

The association between brain volume and intelligence is of genetic origin We addressed the first question in a large Dutch sample of twins and their siblings (258 Dutch adults from 112 extended twin families). We found high heritability for total brain gray-matter volume (Table 1), comparable to the estimate reported by Thompson and colleagues1. In addition, we found high heritability for total brain white-matter volume.

Anonymous said...

In addition to Jesse, people should pay attention to Niger Innis whose father Roy Innis was the founded of CORE in 1968 when real progress was made in civil rights. Unfortunately, there are pitifully few other minorities that will speak out on issues like this.

Anonymous said...

On the 4th of July last year, a coalition of 18 prominent African-American councilpersons, county commissioners, school board members and community and church leaders in Greensboro, North Carolina, just down the road (I-85) from Durham, came out with something they called a Declaration Against Intolerable Racism.

With an opening line echoing the preamble to the Constituion, it cited no particulars, but declared RACISM (no emphasis added)was basically taking over two of North Carolina's largest cities:

"In the course of human events there has developed in Guilford County, including its major cities of Greensboro and High Point, the accumulated effects of centuries of injury, neglect and unjust treatment of a people already suffering from being enslaved for over two hundred years. Although limited progress was made by sacrificing life and safety in the struggle for racial justice over the last sixty years, this progress is being systematically eroded through laws, policies and customs growing out of a culture of RACISM."

It polarized Guilford County.
Anyone who spoke against it was branded a racist. Any African-American who failed to support it, a traitor.

Race provides another definition of "WMD": weapon of mass deception.

Anonymous said...

Is it "racist" to state that the average IQ is the Caucasian 100?

I think it is.

re validity of IQ--educational psychologists overwhelmingly recognize the validity of IQ tests

that is why the term "racial disparity" is a joke

what was it that Time magazine writer once said: "There's a big difference between putting a bone in your nose and landing a man on the Moon"


Anonymous said...

RP - I think you have a modus ponens deficit.

Anonymous said...


I have a huge problem with this post. And that problem is that you seem to have expected better from this group. Par for the course if you ask me.

Anonymous said...

which post?

Anonymous said...

a "modus ponens deficit"?

Please elaborate, I'm all ears.


Anonymous said...


Come out, come out wherever you are.

Did I offend you, or offer a non sequitur?

Please, sir, announce yourself so we can commence battle.


Anonymous said...

5:03 - If I give you some crumbs, do you promise to go back under your bridge?

Anonymous said...

9:42: Normally people who comment on anatomy are themselves lacking in certain "attributes."

Anonymous said...

Duke to offer course on "lacrosse scandal!!"

Anonymous said...

Rewarding the Greatest Achievements

What Polanski (uh huh) was referring to is William A. Henry's book, "In Defense of Elitism." Henry argued--correctly, in my opinion--that only great achievements should be rewarded by society.

Polanski misquoted Henry. The correct quote is:

"It is scarcely the same thing to put a man on the moon as to put a bone in your nose."


Anonymous said...

bring dem crumbs on, Mr Ponens

letsa commencin the vituperation


Anonymous said...

RP: The enemy has entered the gates. Look out, they will shred you with their razor whit (they do seem awfully self impressed). :)

Let me see, the tactics I have seen so far is insult of profession (for that one needs only look at Nifong), the pointing out of spelling errors (sure, we all have time to edit), anatomy size (I think "poop" will come soon as well), and the holy claim of "you're a racist" (which is wacko version of saying puppys are nice, a phrase that is mindless but is supposed to mean something).

I'm actually a bit disappointed, they are usually more entertaining than this.


Anonymous said...

thanks, esq

I had to bait them with my "Dukie" post--didn't work

Do you think KC and Taylor should borrow Henry's title?--LOL

How perfect is that?


Anonymous said...

10:47 - Craven hacks. Don't waste your time with their taunts. It's their last desparate gasp before dismissal.


Anonymous said...

Wonderland update: G88 prof to teach course on "Hook-Up Culture at Duke".

Anne Allison guides you through the morass of sexual violence that is Duke University.

Anonymous said...

Let the brainwashing begin!!


Thank God I did not attend this sorry excuse for a school.


Anonymous said...


how can they be the enemy? i get a kick out of them

the enemy is KC

he loves to delete my posts when i channel karla holloway

i'd love to go out for a beer with her so i could make fun of her in person


M. Simon said...

Modus ponens (from wiki)

In logic, modus ponens (Latin: mode that affirms; often abbreviated MP) is a valid, simple argument form. It is a very common form of reasoning, and takes the following form:

If P, then Q.
Therefore, Q.

Anonymous said...

Thanks MS

I had a Jesuit education (8 years), so I think I can handle the Latin.

What bothers me is the boring, ad hominem (feminam for the PCs) reasoning.

stare decisis!


Anonymous said...

RP: There are many strategic reasons KC does not want you to engage in making fun of Ms. Holloway. The main reason is that her supporters will latch onto any such channelling to attack this blog, and smear the player's supporters with a broad brush. I agree that Ms. Holloway is not a likeable person, and her views are bizarre, but one must use cool logic to defeat them.

Which is not difficult, but is time consuming. Point out her inaccuracies, but leave the personal attacks out of the equation. It makes you no better than the Nifong supporters that come on to this site and launch tirades because they cannot put together an argument that can stand up under review and criticism to back up what he, the Group of 88, and the wacko frings have done to the accused players.


Anonymous said...


Lex Rex.

Laus Deo.


Michael said...

Some good logic texts to improve reasoning, logic and debate:

Introduction to Logic by Copi. (typical expensive textbook)

Introduction to Logic by Patrick Suppes (cheap paperback)

Mathematical Logic for the Schools by Suppes (cheap paperback aimed at teaching fifth-graders logic).

I wonder if you'd find these books at the philosophy department at Duke.

Anonymous said...

Just saw Paula Zahn's "Racism in America" special--ok, the last 30 min.

Am I wrong about this?

She failed to address:

Ms. Zahn's special failed to address that the originator of the first racial taunt, at least according to Ms. Roberts, was Ms. Roberts.

Anonymous said...


Adde parvum parvo magnus acervus erit.



Anonymous said...

RP: Sage quote. Yes, little by little the pile gets added to, and the pressure builds.

This is our real task. I want these players to walk out smiling, free men.


M. Simon said...


In my studies at Hebrew School we did not use Latin much. LOL.

So I thought it might be useful for others who are lacking.


Anonymous said...

hey, Jew boy, what's happening?

esq--they are already free--I want them to be rich, happy, and angry

Simon--let's be honest--you'd really rather be a Cohen--admit it

I've studied the Torah a bit. It's on my list, along with Proust. Never got past Swann's Way; at least I read French

these rumpsters have to be defunded: the issues this case addresses are amazing--it's tapped into everything

That's a good thing


Anonymous said...

Has anyone looked into the role
of the NAACP (Durham and/or state
chapter) in the primary election of
DA Nifong last May?

Or their role in having Nifong procure
the three indictments against the
Duke boys?

The Rev. Barber and his crew were
among the first to hold rallies out in
front of 610 N.B. You may now be
standing in the room with the smoking
gun and not even know it.

Anonymous said...


Agree. His hubris is exceeded only by his narcissism. If you disagree with their POV, you're banal, a troll, and subject to ad hominem attacks.

Since Esquire and RP-cum-Dukie are men (presumably) of letters, they shouldn't have any trouble translating this:

Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes


Anonymous said...


As Ahnold might say, "Dat wuz za goood von" LOL


Anonymous said...

Question for Group of 88.

If you believe this alleged white on black rape is symptomatic of a larger culture of racism and sexual violence on campus, how do you reconcile this with the fact that the vast majority of interracial rapes involving whites and blacks are black on white?

Doesn't the totallity of ALL interracial rape - overwhelmingly black on white - say more about the larger culture than one heavily exploited alleged rape?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
North Carolina has 2 delivered by Jesse Helms and Eric Rudolph(and all their NASCAR supporters),the other from Mike Nifong and The Group of 88(and all their leftwing conspirocy nuts).I wouldn't set foot in NC if you paid me!

11:28 AM

To lump us NASCAR supporters with the likes of Eric Rudolph makes you as stupid and racist as the Gang of 88 Fascists. Where do you come up with something that stupid? Karla Holloway? Or was it NBC Dateline after they were forced by threat of lawsuits and even arrests to back off their manufactured story of how we supposedly treat (or rather mistreat) Muslims who come to watch the races?

And are you aware that one of Eric Rudolph's crimes resulted in another case of an innocent man almost being railroaded to prison by the left? Janet Reno was the "Karla Holloway" of that incident. Eric Rudolph was captured under the watch of John Ashcroft. The NASCAR vote helped put him there. After all, we voted for his boss. His boss, BTW, was my Governor and himself was the target of the NAACP commercial in which they tried to exploit the murder of James Byrd for their political gain. You'd think they would have cheered then-Governor Bush for bragging about Mr Byrd's murderers are going to put to death, but the truth was they didn't give a sh*t about anyway. That's what that commercial told me. NASCAR fans are a higher class of people then that.

Furthermore, as I pointed out in reference to NBC Dateline being threatened by NASCAR officials with lawsuits and arrest from either or both the owners of the Martinville and Texas Motor Speedways if NBC didn't back off a manufactured story alleging racism in our ranks. Duke Universtiy faculty, with the exception of a few notables like Prof. Coleman, were a bunch of timid cowards who gave tacit approval to mob rule by their failure and reluctance to oppose the mob. NASCAR officials and the owners of the speedways were smart enough to put out that fire before it started burning. Proves that NASCAR is far more pretigious than Duke U.

You really need to rethink what you just said about us. That was total stupidity comparable to the Gang of 88 Nazis.