Wednesday, January 31, 2007

Meeting Reaction

Commentary from defense attorneys and Jim Coleman in today's N&O and Duke Chronicle seems overwhelmingly positive about the direction of the case.

From Ben Niolet in the N&O:

After the two-hour meeting, defense attorneys said they were pleased with the prosecutors. They described the session as a business meeting -- a far cry from the days when Nifong refused to sit with the lawyers. Defense attorneys in the case had criticized Nifong for refusing to meet with them even when they said they had evidence that the accusations were lies and that at least one of the charged players had an alibi.

"We are excited to have professional prosecutors who are willing to sit down and engage us in conversation," said Joseph B. Cheshire V, one of Evans' attorneys. "We are excited that we are now engaged in a professional process."

Wade Smith, an attorney for Finnerty, said the meeting was mostly about scheduling.

"It's the kind of thing lawyers and prosecutors should do. They should talk," Smith said.

From Rob Copeland in the Chronicle:

Jim Cooney, a defense attorney for indicted player Reade Seligmann, said he was not surprised by the delay. "The two special prosecutors just got six boxes of stuff about a week ago.... I want to give them a chance to read up on the file and to make a good-faith effort to read what they need to read and to interview the witnesses," Cooney said, adding that there is a significant chance the prosecution will decide to drop the charges before May.

Joe Cheshire, an attorney for David Evans, Trinity '06, told the Associated Press he anticipated more meetings between the defense team and the attorney general's staff. "We are very hopeful about this case, and where it stands, and where it will go, and at least we know that it will be dealt with professionally," Cheshire said.

Duke law professor James Coleman, a frequent commentator on the case, cautioned against reading too far into the postponement. "The way I read this story, this is simply an interim deadline and it could be moved up or moved back depending on the progress made," Coleman said.

He added that the delay indicates the new prosecutor is willing to look at the case from all angles. "The lawyers on both sides appear to be interested in what the facts are and whether there is any basis for criminal charges," Coleman said. "If you recall, Nifong refused to look at any of the evidence from the defense and indicted a guy without looking at his alibi."

96 comments:

Anonymous said...

Given the actions of the prosecution previously, I hope the defense is being very cautious about turning over alibi evidence. It just allows the prosecution to make up a completely new time line, ignoring the AV's previous statements and physical evidence, in order to work around the Def's evidence.

I know the SP's aren't Nifong. But they ARE the people that retried Gell. They all work on the same side, for the same Governor. They may be trying to do the same railroad Nifong was, just with more skill.

Anonymous said...

"We are excited to have professional prosecutors who are willing to sit down and engage us in conversation," said Joseph B. Cheshire V, one of Evans' attorneys. "We are excited that we are now engaged in a professional process."

"Excited" is an unusually positive term. If things had not gone so well, I would have expected to hear a diplomatic "pleased"

Anonymous said...

I hope the A.G. has the courage to file charges against the FA for this hoax and the second dancer for a false 911 call.

Anonymous said...

If I'm Nifong, I'm hoping they drop the charges QUICKLY! The longer this drags out, the more the lax players have to pay in legal bills. The more they pay, the higher the settlement against Nifong, the city or state.

Anonymous said...

Why is it always Jim Coleman who winds up being quoted ? Is he the only lawyer on the Duke faculty who has an opinion ?

Anonymous said...

Duke Law professors Thomas Metzloff and Paul Haagen have also been quoted recently. Yes, Coleman is quoted the most, but that is for three reasons: (1) he has been out in front of this issue for longest; (2) he is one of the few criminal law experts on the Duke Law faculty; and (3) he is African-American. Because of those three reasons, reporters keep calling him for comments.

Anonymous said...

The more they pay, the higher the settlement against Nifong, the city or state.

I'm no lawyer, but has anyone ever seen a criminal defendant get their legal fees back from the state? In any case?

I don't think it happened with Gell, or Little Rascals. It certainly didn't happen with Rush Limbaugh, OJ Simpson, or any of the people the Innocence Project - some of them get restitution for the time they spent in jail, but I've never hear of their getting legal fees.

bill anderson said...

I have said some unflattering things about Coman, but in the Alan Gell case, the man had been convicted by a jury, and the family members of the victim were pushing the prosecution. This is not a justification for what Coman did, but it is not the same as making up things from whole cloth, which is what Nifong did.

Now, if Coman were to insist on taking it to trial, then all bets would be off. I would take first credit in naming him "Coman the Barbarian," but I am sure others would come up with equally creative (or more creative) names. As all of you know, I do not hold prosecutors in high regard, but I don't think the defense attorneys are simply mouthing platitudes.

Again, I might be proven wrong and Coman tries to take it to trial, but he knows there is no way he can get a conviction, and at age 64, I seriously doubt he wants his legacy to be trying to railroad innocent people into prison. Just my sense of thing.

bill anderson said...

As for James Coleman, I don't care about his race. The man has been on target this entire case.

Yes, his being black places another dimension, especially contrasting his performance with that of Irving Joyner. But, race aside, Coleman has been excellent and has provided the defense with good backup ammunition, given that the defense has used his "multiple choice test with no wrong answers" quote on their own documents.

Anonymous said...

While these new prosecutors are obviously a major improvement over Nifong, I still have to think that, in light of the DNA evidence, they are missing the mark. In what other case would prosecutors find it necessary to spend several months going through the evidence when DNA makes it clear the accused are innocent? Let alone the accuser's multiple stories . . .

Could the new prosecutors be taking their time simply because they don't want to make Nifong look even worse than he already does by pulling the plug too quickly?

Anonymous said...

I've read of the disappointment of some posters here and at other blogs with respect to the postponement of the February hearing. Actually, the postponement is necessary and is beneficial to both the prosecution and to the defense.

If you carefully read the amended complaint of January 24, 2007 of the North Carolina Bar Disciplinary Hearing Commission [Amended Bar Association complaint], you may find additional reasons for the delay.

In reviewing several items of the complaint (275, 277, 278, and perhaps others), it is apparent to me that the Comission is not only talking to Mr. Nifong but to the Special Prosecutors. In the complaint, they mention that these items are continuing violations as of Mr. Nifong's recusal and turnover of the case to the special prosecutors.

It is apparent to me that the Bar Disciplinary Commission complaint is also a message to the special prosecutors that the Commission wants these items completed both for the main legal case and for the disciplinary action. I suspect that they may view these items (when submitted) as both extra nails in Mr. Nifong's professional coffin and as possible evidence should there be a later criminal action against him.

They want that material - and they are also holding out an implied stick - the message to the special prosecutors that if they don't provide this material that disciplinary action for failure to do so may next come upon their heads.

These materials (including a revised report from Meehan explicitly including the exculpatory material and also detailed memoranda as to their meetings) would also be useful to the defendants in possible future actions.

Pittsburgh

Anonymous said...

JLS says.....

On Coman and the Gell case, the laws of time and motion pretty much had to be suspended or the witnesses that placed the victim alive after Gell was in jail had to be wrong. And I would say being in jail and the victim not being in jail is even better than a picture of one at an ATM.

The pressure from the family argument does no reassure me in this case. This case is about nothing if it is not about pressure.

Phillip said...

I have a question about Cash Michaels involvement in the reporting on this case. he is a entertainment reporter for whatever you want to call the thing he works for. Why has he now become the voice of the Hoaxers? This man is an idiot to say the least.

Anonymous said...

10:33 The typical "authoritative" quote comes from those that are consistently available. Jouranlists are very, very lazy and will take the path of least resistance to meet a deadline.

Having said that Coleman has juevos in taking the "authoratative" roll upon himself. God Bless his him for that.

Anonymous said...

"I'm no lawyer, but has anyone ever seen a criminal defendant get their legal fees back from the state? In any case?"

Good question 10:56. I haven't heard of any, but this might be the exception given Nifong's conduct.

Anonymous said...

10:56
I do not think anyone will get legal fees back from the state. What is a possibly fruitful path is to sue Nifong individually for damages. The actions of the bar association and others can you lead you to believe that he is going to be hanging out to dry and have legal judgements against him of some kind. His actions in this case may make him exposed to civil suits as he has stepped outside the role that is traditionally immune to such suits.

Anonymous said...

Cash is far from an idiot. He has staked out a very clever position that he knows will work for him. He knows the case is a fraud and that no reputable, ethical lawyer will take it to trial. That enables him to call for a trial that he knows will never happen. Then, when the trial doesn't happen he can claim racism and victimization for the woman he knows is no victim.

This strategy allows him to perpetuate the black cult of victimhood and keep the mythology of whites abusing blacks in tact.

It's actually quite brilliant as long as you remember his agenda has nothing to do with justice or rape and everything to do with perserving the myth of America as a society so racist that no American black can get a fair deal.

Anonymous said...

JLS says....

re: 10:56 and 11:49

I googled Gell to refresh myself with the details of what the exculpatory evidence NC hid from him was.

I did see an article that in late 2005 he filed suit against several people in the AG's office. I wonder what became of this? NC arrested him again soon after he filed suit for statutory rape.

Hit the link to read about the filing:

Gell suit

Anonymous said...

11:09 AM,

The DNA tests alone do not make it clear that no sexual assault occurred occurred. The person commiting the assault might have used something other than a sex organ, he might not have ejaculated, or he might have used a contraceptive. The DNA tests results must be combined with CGM's testimony and possibly other evidence (such as the SANE nurse"s observations) to show that no case exists. All of the relevant evidence, not just the DNA results, must be examined by the new prosecutors.

Anonymous said...

This is excellent news for the defense.

If Joe Cheshire, Wade Smith and James Coleman are not concerned... then, I am not concerned.

Thank God that there will be justice at last.

Anonymous said...

To 11:32:

IMHO I have to disagree with your analysis. The postponement is the worst thing that can happen to the complaint against Nifong. The evidence against Nifong will come out of the trial, not from the prosecution. By delaying the trial the truth of the Nifong conspiracy will be delayed until after the Nifong hearing.

Do you honestly believe Coman is going to supply information against Nifong to the State Bar? If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you!

Anonymous said...

JLS says....

Limbaugh has taken to calling US Attorney Fitzpatrick, FitzFong when suggesting he coaches the witnesses against Libby.

Anonymous said...

Sorry the previous comment should be directed to the 11:17 post.

Anonymous said...

The evidence is already out, Meehan's testimony about the DNA evidence is on the record, he can't take it back. That's more than enough to end his career.

But, I agree, the AG isn't going to be turning over any "new" evidence of faked reports, leading witnesses or threatening them that hasn't already come out.

Mad Hatter said...

Re: 10:00 AM

How right you are!

bill anderson said...

The DNA tests alone do not make it clear that no sexual assault occurred occurred. The person commiting the assault might have used something other than a sex organ, he might not have ejaculated, or he might have used a contraceptive. The DNA tests results must be combined with CGM's testimony and possibly other evidence (such as the SANE nurse"s observations) to show that no case exists. All of the relevant evidence, not just the DNA results, must be examined by the new prosecutors.

12:11 PM


This is an amazing statement. The entire case was built on Crystal's reports to the police, plus what she said during the lineup session in early April 2006. In that session, she clearly stated about things like ejaculation and the like.

You expect me to believe that three young men would take a woman, beat her with their fists and choke her for 30 minutes, rape and assualt her with their nude bodies, ejaculate into her various orifices (as she clearly says on the videotape) and not leave even a speck of DNA?

Obviously this person is a troll of Wendy Murphy proportions. No, Nifong stated from the beginning that DNA would "prove" who committed the "rape," and would demonstrate who was innocent.

Only after the DNA came back negative did he then declare that DNA no longer mattered. By the way, Murphy is on the record as demanding that a rape-kit exam be done only with court order. That is so there will not be exculpatory DNA and once a woman claims that "Mr. X" raped her, then Mr. X literally will be permitted no defense.

This is the Brave New World of feminist rape law, and we have to understand the agenda behind it. The real purpose is for all men to live in terror of being accused of rape and not being able to defend themselves against false charges. Oh, I forgot, Murphy also is on the record as saying women never make false rape charges, and if they actually are raped, they never make any false identification.

loki on the run said...

Democracy is changing. No longer do we need to rely on the dilute pap fed to us by the special interests known as newspapers. We can now engage in the process of being informed about what is going on in our local, national, and in some cases, international communities through blogs like this and others.

We can have our views challenged and strengthened by questioning those who purvey their points of view, and we can more easily express our views and ensure that we have been given a picture with far more flesh on it that the news media ever deigned to give us.

Some politicians and some people will resist this new expression of democracy and community involvement. It scares them that their constituents can now get information from sources they do not control and it scares some people to have to think. However, many others are thirsty for this new way of relating to the world.

Durham-in-Wonderland has demonstrated to me over the last 8-9 months that the new democracy is here and a force to be reckoned with.

I hope that the lacrosse three are fully exhonerated and that they extract reparations from Durham, Nifong and, yes, even Duke. But more than that, I believe that they are innocent and that I know what happened in the days surrounding that incident and the consequences for our community, mostly because of the stirling work of KC Johnson.

I hope that he continues to blog on subjects of interest like this, but if he does choose to stop at the conclusion of this case, I hope that someone else provides a blog of similar quality on subjects of justice for all.

Anonymous said...

I think you misunderstand what the previous poster meant about DNA.

Lack of DNA evidence on it's own is not exculpatory in general. Just like presence of DNA other than the alleged rapist, by itself, is not exculpatory, in general.

If a woman is raped and her boyfriend or her husband's DNA is found on her that doesn't mean Mr. X is not a rapist. Other DNA isn't necessarily exculpatory even if the woman did lie about her previous sexual encounter, if say she's married and having an affair with Mr. Y, it doesn't doens't mean that Mr. X did not rape her.

The reason that the DNA evidence in THIS CASE is exculpatory is because the woman's story of a brutal, three orifice no condom ejaculation gang rape that leaves no DNA in a rape kit taken a couple of hours later is virtually impossible.

The reason that the presence of other DNA found in and on her is relevant is that it goes to her credibility...she must have lied about her recent sexual activities AND more importantly the number of DNA samples give us a possible motive of why she lied...she isn't just extremely promiscuious, since even promiscuous women get raped, but the number of male DNA deposits are strongly suggestive that she was working as a prostitute,and not having that fact uncovered is a strong reason to lie about the previous sex and hte rape.

Anonymous said...


It's actually quite brilliant as long as you remember his agenda has nothing to do with justice or rape and everything to do with perserving the myth of America as a society so racist that no American black can get a fair deal.


And thus, he should be accorded more privilege by whitey and the black community should send more money his way to keep on exposing the perfidy of whitey.

Angela said...

12:00
I do not think anyone will get legal fees back from the state. What is a possibly fruitful path is to sue Nifong individually for damages. The actions of the bar association and others can you lead you to believe that he is going to be hanging out to dry and have legal judgements against him of some kind. His actions in this case may make him exposed to civil suits as he has stepped outside the role that is traditionally immune to such suits.

But you can't get blood from a stone, and you can't attach pensions after someone has gone into personal bankruptcy.

Unless the families can go after Duke, I don't see any pockets deep enough to pay their legal fees.

MrRabbit said...

Impatience and righteous indignation go hand in hand with these sort of outrages. However, many of us confuse the separate and distinct subjects of 1)fairness, 2)justice, and 3)law. We should all hope and pray for fairness. Fairness always needs all the help it can get when judges and prosecuting attorneys get involved.

As for those that keep mentioning monetary settlements and compensation...you would do well to hold off on icing down the beer and putting on the party hats just yet. I suggest you remember what Bismarck said about law and sausage making. (That is to say...You would be happier if you remained ignorant of both!) The "State" clings tenaciously to the old medieval concept of "Rex non potest peccare" or "The King Can Do No Wrong".

Anonymous said...

to: 12:28/12:30

I think that you misunderstand my point.

There was going to be a postponement in any case. No judge is going to refuse a continuance when a side has new attorneys who need to familiarize themselves with the case, with the possible exception of a case where there was a long history of both continuances and shifting of attorneys.

If there had not been a postponement, the probable outcome of the February hearing is that the alleged victim would have been precluded from making identification at trial (and possibly precluded as a witness), thus ending the case.

If this had happened, the additional material related to DNASI (reports, meeting notes) would have never been produced, and thus would not have been easeily available for future cases.

Such an outcome would have made additional work for both attorneys for Evans, et al in future cases and for the Bar Disciplinary Commission in their case against Mr. Nifong.

You might also re-read the transcript of the Bar Disciplinary hearing. The transcript makes it clear that the disciplinary 'trial' will not happen in May, and that they also want it to happen either significantly before the Lacrosse case trial or after it. Once the recusal happened, the delays were pre-ordained.


Pittsburgh

Anonymous said...

They want the disciplinary trial before or after the lacrosse trial. Well, yeah.....

Anonymous said...

The decent thing the DA could do is vacate the indictments pending the results of the investigation. They could always re-indict.

But who expects decency from this crowd.

Anonymous said...

AG not DA.

Anonymous said...

"The lawyers on both sides appear to be interested in what the facts are and whether there is any basis for criminal charges"

AMEN. That's all anybody ever wanted -

Anonymous said...

There's a good article at Frontpagemag.com, entitled "Racism 101...about black studies at U Arizona. KC, you should address this. These black racists are dangerous.

Anonymous said...

Elites to Anti-Affirmative-Action Voters: Drop Dead by Heather Mac Donald.

Anonymous said...

The funny thing is, here in Silicon Valley, I see plenty of people of color. I see Indians (from India) with skin color ranging from light brown to dark brown to black. Lots of them, and they are earning big salaries as well, but the usually get their undergraduate degrees outside the US. I also see lots of people with brown/yellow skins as well. Plenty of the above are female.

There is plenty of diversity here in Silicon Valley, but very few african americans, hispanics or native americans ... diversity rules. Yeah!

Anonymous said...

12:11 PM

You succumb to the logical fallacy that "If it's possible, Then it MUST be true!"

Except, in your case, it is "If it's possible, Then it MUST go to trial!"

Therefore, since it is POSSIBLE that you were the third shooter on the grassy knowl, and even if you weren't, you MIGHT have been responsible for Elvis' "disappearance", then you too shall have your day before a jury.

This is precisely the reason for constitutional due process, which by the way, should involve many checks before indictment, arrest or trial, any one of which can ruin ordinary innocent people.

Anonymous said...

Church minister's daughter who cried 'rape' four times is jailed

Women never lie about rape, but when they do, they do it over and over and over again.

Anonymous said...

12:11

Uh, which version of "CGM's testimony" would that be?

Would it be the one where she was raped by 20 men or by 3 or wasn't raped at all since she couldn't be sure they had penetrated her with a penis or one of the several others she has offered up over the last 10 months?

Calling her pack of lies "testimony" is a laugher.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 3:40
"...a tissue of wicked lies..." What a good English saying.
Thank you for the link.
MTU'76

Anonymous said...


Women never lie about rape, but when they do, they do it over and over and over again.


Just like men never lie about respecting them in the morning, but when they do, they do it over and over ...

Anonymous said...

JLS says....

re: 4:56

Lying about being raped is a CRIME. Not respecting someone you had sex with is NOT. The you would confuse the two is the type of soft bigotry that excuses false rape claims.

Michael said...

re bill anderson at 11:01

I'm sure that Coman doesn't want to wind up in the Urban Dictionary either.

Something like Comanized - to railroad someone that's been Nifonged.

Anonymous said...


Lying about being raped is a CRIME. Not respecting someone you had sex with is NOT. The you would confuse the two is the type of soft bigotry that excuses false rape claims.


So you are saying that it is OK for a man to lie to a woman, get her pregnant and walk away?

You sexist assholes are all scum.

False rape claims are the only way women have to get even.

Anonymous said...

4:36--

I'm not 12:11, but that poster made a perfectly reasonable point. By itself, the DNA evidence doesn't show there was no rape (despite Nifong's early suggestion that it would exonerate the innocent). It's only when it's combined with the rest of the evidence (including the accuser's many conflicting accounts, as well as her statement that no condoms were used) that it becomes clear that there is no case here. I don't think 12:11 was suggesting that the accuser is a credible witness, only that the SPs will need to review the entire record, not just the DNA results, to do their job.

Anonymous said...

Remember
If Nifong could have planted DNA evidence he would have.

The proof - 290+ charges of misconduct, one more wouldbe no big deal.

hman said...

To 5:49
A man cannot lie to a woman and thereby make her pregnant. Pregnancy requires an act of unprotected sex. It is nearly always the woman who knows best about the risk of her getting pregnant and it is 100% the case that she decides whether or not to continue the pregnancy. If she chooses, unilaterally, to continue the pregnancy the youung man will be required to pay child support. Jail awaits him if he does not.
Despite all of this, you have been instructed to see the woman as helpless and therefore always the victim.
Since, apparently, you have also been instructed to think of men as sub-human, you feel no sqeamishness at the prospect of their lives being ruined at the mere say-so of an angry, petulant female.
People like you are managing to give bigotry and sexism a bad name.

Anonymous said...

hman, such a poor oppressed white man. You are such a victim of society, maybe you need some help.

Anonymous said...

To anyone who says the DNA results aren't dispositive in this case you're going to have to explain to me how a violent struggle between one woman and three men and a three orifice gang rape with ejaculations here and there followed by a relatively quick trip to the hospital failed to produce any DNA from the suspects.

While you're at it, you can also explain how this attack left no trace of DNA but the DNA of around five unidentified males and a boyfriend did show up.

The accuser has been trying mightily to come up with a plausible scenario for this herself but so far she has been unsuccessful and has had to resort to magic towels among other things.

Anonymous said...

6:54 is totally correct. the dna is totally dispositive. The attack as descrived left dna of three different people. None was found but older dna was found. therefore, in order for the attack to be true you would at least need a theory as to where it went. Keep in mind the theory would have to explain why the DNA was missing for all three and on the floor. I have yet to hear one person even propose a theory, let alone propose a reasonable theory. It is not enough to just say you don't always need DNA when the attack as described inherently involves spraying DNA everywhere and it is not found.

Anonymous said...

4:36--why doesn't the dna show no rape. Where did it go? Again, in the nearly a year this has been going on, not one person anywhere has suggested a mechanism as to what happened to the dna. Cleaning or samplign error? NO. Older dna was found and even Meehan's dandruff was found. So, if it is not cleaning or sampling error what happened???? What is the theory. The absence of even a theory (martians, special duke lacrosse dna eating bacteria etc.)is why this whole case is theatre and a fraud. No reasonable person could think her story is true.

Anonymous said...

And (these hedging comments about DNA just annoy the crap out of me) how did the duke players know in advance that their DNA would not be present. They had a great consent defense, a great defense and in theory (if they were monsters) dozens of supportive witnesses. They predicted no DNA because her story was false, is false, was always false and unless you can have a theory as to why the missing DNA is missing other than the fact that she is a liar (and noone not Wendy Murphy or Nancy Grace or the pot bangers or the New York times even has a theory, let alone a plausible theory) this case is exactly what it appears to be--a big fat hoax.

Anonymous said...

5:49 pm sez ...


False rape claims are the only way women have to get even.


Chan Hall, is that you? That sounds eerily like what you said. I guess there are people of low cognitive skills in all groups, eh.

Anonymous said...

I still think the defense should go along with the notion that she was raped, but was totally confused about the location and the identity of the assailants. Precious was so overwhelmed by the trauma that she didn't think to report it, but just put her life on autopilot as she went to the frat house. Her trauma, however, left her unable to perform.

Precious' behavior is far less mendacious under that scenario than under any other, but the DNA would be absolutely positively exculpatory.

If the defense took that tack, what could the prosecutor say? The defense's actions in such case couldn't be portrayed as trying to re-traumatize a rape victim by not taking her seriously. Indeed, the defense would put the prosecution in the awkward spot of having to explain why it wasn't taking the rape seriously and seeking out the men whose DNA was found.

Anonymous said...

Hopefully the AG's office has a tandum investigation going into the illegal operations of the DPD in the investigation of this hoax. I hope that Gottlieb, Wilson, and others are held account for their misdeed in this illicit prosecution of three innocent young men. Perhaps this delay will bring justice after all not only to the accused, but to those complicit with the crime of false accusation.

Anonymous said...

7:41? Are you serious. If she was raped, where is the trauma. Why would any competent defense attorney give away a major part of the defense. That is ridiculous. She had no trauma, she denied being raped and never said anybody else raped her. Forget it.

Anonymous said...


I still think the defense should go along with the notion that she was raped, but was totally confused about the location and the identity of the assailants. Precious was so overwhelmed by the trauma that she didn't think to report it, but just put her life on autopilot as she went to the frat house. Her trauma, however, left her unable to perform.


Given that there seems to be an hour missing between when CGM and Officer whoever left Krogers and arrived at the Durham Access Center, some serious shit could have gone down.

Anonymous said...

8:00? some serious shit that left no trauma?? and in no way prevented her from performing at the club??. It seems as though you have the same disease, different symptoms of the enablers. It is a hoax, a lie, a bunch of garbage. No further explanation is needed.

Anonymous said...

8:00

Yeah, some serious shit went down.

a) Precious moved her bowels, and b) she didn't wipe.

Not Wearing Panties

PS Please do not ridicule my name. It's Laotian.

Anonymous said...

Before I read anyone else's comments, God bless James Coleman.
If Brodhead should leave, I think you would be a wonderful President of Duke University.

Anonymous said...

8:07

Duke does not need Coleman as president. Duke needs a tough visionary, someone who's unafraid of confrontation.

Not Wearing Panties

Anonymous said...

The one thing I have learned here is never admitt to something you did not do. do not plea bargin unless you are guilty and trying to make the best deal you can.

Anonymous said...

To 1:31:
When Mike Niefong made himslef the lead investigator, he likely opend a hole in his immunity. And, since he represents the State of NC, they will have some liability, and plenty deep pockets. The Durham PD also has liability, and the lawsuits may end up in Federal Court, so don't think there aren't some pockets deep enough out there to be had. Duke will also likely pay out, there risk of discovery in the G88 emails is very high and the PR would be devastating to them, so I look for them to make a settlement offer. Hence, Even if Nifong files bankruptcy (which he may well have to do), the State of NC who he represents, will be footing some of the bill...

Bday

Anonymous said...

5:49
Are you nuts, so, if a man tells a lie to a woman (Not a crime), then it is perfectly ok for the woman to cry rape (a crime).
Hell, I guess then, if a woman lies to me, I guess it is ok to claim she drugged and robbed me, simply as a means of getting back at her..
Get a life, men lie to women and women lie to men, it's too bad it happens, but then again, it only takes a fool to be fooled...

BDay

Michael said...

Looks like the Guilford case is turning into a rout. Apparently the Palestinians assaulted a Jewish kid before and put him in the hospital which I guess is the reason for the previous suspension. So these guys have a history.

It appears that they started the current fight and that the football players have been cleared by the police and FBI.

FBI should have taken a ride over to Durham.

Anonymous said...

8:16 - The one thing this case should make plain is the fact that whether you did or not, always talk to your lawyer before answering any questions.

The reason is that in many cases, whether you did it or not is irrelevant. The best meaning police/prosecutor may just assume you did it, and every cry of innocense with what you did and where you were is simply another nail in your coffin in their minds.

If you have a lawyer involved, it means they have to prove their case. That means real police work, and if they are forced to do it, a lousy case will fall apart. That is precisely what happened here.

-Esquire-
-Maryland-

Anonymous said...

TO 8:42PM---

I am not surprised that there was much more to the story than was initially reported.

College campuses are so oriented toward bending over backward for Muslims in this country that it would have to have been a situation prompted by the Palestinian students.....if an altercation took place.

They know well that they can abuse any situation in the liberal environment of a university or any other college atmosphere.....and they will benefit from the victimhood schtick since 911.

If these Palestinian students assaulted or abused a Jewish or Israeli student as has been reported, I hope the athletes beat the living hell out of them.

Enough already!

Debrah

Anonymous said...

MD ESQ
Happy to see you back. Question, the Defense attorney's had announced earlier in the same week of Nifong's Jan 12th recusal request that they would be filing more motions prior to the then scheduled Feb 5th hearing. However, no new motions have been filed since the State AG has taken over. You think the defense is confident that no further motions are needed or are they extending a courtesy to the State AG not to clog up matters more than they already are as a result of Liefong?

Anonymous said...

Debrah 9:22 -

I fear Islamists are taking the same path as blacks: victimhood, affirmative action, etc. We must, as a nation, reject such claims. It is imperative that good stands up to evil.

thatisall,
dl

Anonymous said...

TO dl---

Of course you are correct, but it will be like finding a cure for cancer.

It will take the jaws of life to pry this mentality from those who believe, or rather, know how to play the game of the "victicrat".

However, it is a culture war in this country that must be won fo everyone's sake.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

9:25 - They don't want to poke the bear. They have opened a line of communication, and they want to keep that line open. Any animosity would not be in their clients' best interests right now.

Totally different dynamic now that Nifong is gone. I certainly would not stir the pot, or make the prosecution look bad, just let the State go through its 12 steps and with dignity dismiss the remaining charges. Stay pleasant and upbeat, that is the key for defense counsel at this moment.

-Esquire-
-Maryland-

Anonymous said...

Oooops!

No, I was not attempting street slang.

"fo" should have been FOR.

:>)

Debrah

Anonymous said...

Debrah -

"victocrat"? You're blazing a new trail. You go girl!

Anonymous said...

Tks MD Esq!

Anonymous said...

TO 9:43PM---

I like that word as well....however......can't take the credit.

It was coined by Larry Elder.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

8:25 if, as you say, Nifong stepped out of his role as prosecutor and became lead investigator he was no longer representing the state of NC in the position he was elected to. And therefore any liability that might exist to the State (which is likely none anyway unless the State authorizes such suits)has probably gone out the window under your theory. It is as if any employee was acting outside the scope of their employement. Hard to hold an employer liable under those circumstances.

The State has no liability here. Individuals might, but not the State.

Anonymous said...

10:02
Liefong cannot step out of his job title!

Anonymous said...

10:02,
well, I am no lawyer, so perhaps one of our attorneys out there can answer this question?? I still fell the State has some liability, but I could be wrong ?

Bday

Anonymous said...

An elected state official is superior over any local city government. It's like saying state trooper's can't enforce loca city traffic ordinances.

Anonymous said...

9:29 PM
"I fear Islamists are taking the same path as blacks: victimhood"

Not far off there... CAIR = NAACP too sad.

Jim said...

If you think the Duke case has a monopoly on absurd tales of social engineering and rushes to judgment, absorb the following missive regarding the Guilford case, from Rabbis Fred Guttman and Andy Koren, which appeared in the (Greensboro) News and Record two days ago:

"On behalf of the Temple Emanuel community, the largest Jewish congregation in the Triad, we, as Rabbis, would like to express our sincere sympathy to President Kent Chabotar and the Guilford College community over the recent violence on their campus.

Guilford College, as a Quaker school, has always been known as a place of tolerance for its students. The fact that an act such as this could occur there teaches us all that bias, bigotry, racism and ethnic hatred lie beneath the surface in our society -- even in a place wherein one would be least likely to expect it. Therefore, the tragic violence there has implications for our greater Greensboro community and our nation...

It is our hope that those responsible for this outrage are brought to justice. May God, the one who is the source of humanity, grant to our brothers, the Palestinian students, who were injured in this attack, a complete and speedy recovery..."

Shalom Aleichem, Salaam Alaikum, peace be unto you, Guilford College.

The writers live in Greensboro."

The police dropped the case, citing no evidence of an assault, much less a hate crime; the accusers appeared on local TV without discernible injuries; the FBI is dropping out; charges were dropped against at least one of those arrested; yet still plenty of student and community protest, outrage and "sympathy" for the "victims".

KC would have a field day with this one.

bill anderson said...

I still will say that I have much confidence in the defense counsel. They have done very well, and one of them told me that he has never believed more in the innocence of his client, and this man is a very successful and experienced criminal lawyer.

While I ultimately blame Nifong and the State of North Carolina for this act of virtual hostage taking and extortion, the attorneys have to do what will work, and they were wise in giving the prosecutors some room here.

Anonymous said...

3:02 PM,

You and Bill Anderson have the same problem. You need to read posts before you respond to them. At 12:11, I did not say (as you claim I said) that the case needs to go to trial. I said the new prosecutors need to look at all the evidence, not just the DNA tests. It is the combination of CGM's testimony, other testimony or reports (e.g., the SANE report), AND the DNA report that establishes innocence. That is why the prosecutors need more time. They cannot do their job properly by merely reviewing the DNA reports.

Jim said...

Here's video of the Guilford accusers walking out of their attorney's office.

A week before this video was shot, these same guys were "beaten with feet, fists and brass knuckles" by up to 15 football players, suffering "sustained concussions and contusions. One also has a broken jaw, another a broken nose. And a third has back injuries."

Huh?

nifong's hat trick said...

12:44
The exculpatory DNA evidence also proves that the FA had sex with 5 other men whose DNA remained on her while the accused's DNA was able to be wiped away with the magic towel

otrblog said...

Last March, Nifong needed three more years until he could collect his DA pension. That three years is quickly becoming two years now. It will be less than two years in May.

To stretch the case out into May helps Nifong in his state bar defense. If by any chance the Duke 3 charges get resolved before Nifong goes to trial against the state bar and the Duke 3 charges are dismissed, Nifong is in trouble. He needs to keep the charges outstanding until his bar case is settled. Either that or somehow get the AG to trial and win convictions via reverse jury nullification. Of course, stretching out the case is an easier task.

Now, if Nifong can stretch his bar case out another two years, he can simply resign, collect his pension and retire. That is what the foundation of everything rests on anyway, right? Who cares if a retired prosecutor loses his law license once he starts collecting his pension.

So watch out for continuances like this one that pushes the case all the way out to May. I am betting that date was determined by Nifong himself during private consultation with his buddy Winstead. In May, look for another continuance out to September. Maybe Coman will take medical leave or Winstead will suffer a family loss. Supervisors rarely verify bereavement claims by asking for death certificates. A fake Uncle Joe will die in Hawaii and Mary will be off for a leisurely vacation. Just wait.

Anonymous said...

Well, you misogynists clearly don't know that just 5.3% of rapists are brought to justice in the UK and it is probably no better in the US.

Those privileged Duke lacrosse players probably did it!

Anonymous said...

Troll Alert! Mr./Ms. 11:40 please return to your home under the bridge.
gk

M. Simon said...

jim 10:52AM,

I'm on the case:

No Charge

Click on the "Guilford College" label at the bottom of the post to get the rest of my articles on the subject.

BTW the ADL came out swinging on this too! Idiiots.

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