Thursday, July 12, 2007

Nifong Disbarred: Official Findings

The State Bar has released the official findings of fact and conclusions of law of the Disciplinary Hearing Committee, which resulted in Mike Nifong’s disbarment.

The findings of fact make for chilling reading—in a chronological fashion, Lane Williamson laid out Nifong’s record of misconduct, from the DA’s first move on the case on March 24, 2006 to his repeated false statements to the State Bar’s grievance committee.

The findings regarding discipline are even more chilling. The DHC determined:

Nifong’s misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, and their families . . . Nifong’s misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to the legal profession. Nifong’s conduct has created an impression among the public within and outside of North Carolina that lawyers in general and prosecutors in particular cannot be trusted and can be expected to lie to the court and to opposing counsel . . .

Nifong’s misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to the justice system. Nifong has caused an impression among the public within and outside of North Carolina that there is a systemic problem in the North Carolina justice system and that a criminal defendant can only get justice if he or she can afford to hire an expensive lawyer with unlimited resources to figure out what is being withheld by the prosecutor . . .

No discipline other than disbarment will adequately protect the public, the judicial system, and the profession, given the clear demonstration of dishonest conduct, multiple violations, the pattern of dishonesty established by the evidence, and Nifong’s failure to recognize or acknowledge the wrongfulness of his conduct with regard to withholding of DNA and making false representations to opposing counsel and to the Court.

An appropriate legacy for the person Doug Brocker described as Durham County’s “minister of injustice.”

153 comments:

Anonymous said...

See 12 in the findings of fact. There goes any last hope of absolute immunity.

He took over the investigation, and so has only qualified immunity = no immunity.

bill anderson said...

This report really is devastating, and yet it only scratches the surface. There is much, much more to investigate.

Anonymous said...

How's the Hoax working out for you Nifong?

Baldo

Anonymous said...

Now he too will learn some of CGM's pole dancing moves.... yes, I see him, post criminal conviction, buns up kneeling but it wont be imaginary lacrosse players wheelin' and dealin'... Bet prison is a tough place for a rogue DA, but that is what you get for running the railroad... and as L. Williams wrote, "...Nifong’s failure to recognize or acknowledge the wrongfulness of his conduct ..."

Anonymous said...

Nifong's be smite mightily for his hubris, but there will be many more to come.

bill anderson said...

By the way, note that the report orders Nifong to pay the costs of the proceedings. There goes the pension....

Anonymous said...

More concrete, damning evidence of the Hoax.

On to Hoaxgate!

Can the coverup be worse than the crime in this case?

TombZ

Anonymous said...

Lance Williamson - you are a brilliant hero of this event,

Anonymous said...

Nifong had only one thought throughout the entire process- How can this help me? He cared not a whit about anyone else and was prepared to send innocent men to prison for life in order to get a little more money. His conduct was inexcusable and illegal. He should be behind bars.

I am particularly galled by the fact that this man went on national TV and showed the world how the "victim" told him she had been choked when he had never even spoken to her.

From his public lies to the creation of the Meehan report Nifong was dishonest to the core.

The question I have now is, where are the potbangers and protestors? They were very eager to rally around a lying stripper to defend her against a crime that never happened. Now that it has been established that the DA was corrupt, the DPD is dishonest, and Duke has at least one Professor (still gainfully employed!!) who engaged in the worst ethical violation possible....we hear silence.

So come on potbangers and protestors where are you? There are real issues deserving of outrage that should be exposed to the world. After all this you might still have the opportunity to bring down some spoiled priveleged white guys who think they are above the law....members of the DPD one and all.

Anonymous said...

Can someone please list the crimes for which Nifong MAY be sent to prison (assuming someone sues him or prosecutes him.) Violation of civil rights, but only if families sue? Other crimes for which he could go to prison are only if someone in Federal judiciary decides to prosecute?

Anonymous said...

Could someone please comment
...Does Nifong's misconduct in this case bring into question any other cases he has prosecuted? Could we be expecting multiple appeals of these cases in the future?

Anonymous said...

This is the first time I have seen the 3 players listed as the victims in writing in an official document.

This document shows just how deep Nifong's misconduct went.

Anonymous said...

My favorite is that the official "findings of fact" specifically include (#15) Liefong telling Gottlied and Himan, "You know, we're fucked."

Mr.Nifong, you have not -- yet -- begun to get fucked.

Anonymous said...

Well ... seems like this document just made the three players a few more dollars. The profession has policed its own, found fault and decided there was actual harm done to them personally. Mr. Nifong might still find himself in the klink, or bankrupted, or having all future earnings attached to make the victims in this case "whole". Bring the hammer down, and watch the rat scurry and sing. He's clearly not smart enough to have done all this on his own...

bill anderson said...

Since "Nifonging" has made it to the Urban Dictionary, perhaps he can be convicted of "Nifonging" defendants and sent to the Crowbar Motel. Just a thought....

Ralph Phelan said...

"Nifong’s conduct has created an impression among the public within and outside of North Carolina that lawyers in general and prosecutors in particular cannot be trusted and can be expected to lie to the court and to opposing counsel . . .

Nifong has caused an impression among the public within and outside of North Carolina that there is a systemic problem in the North Carolina justice system and that a criminal defendant can only get justice if he or she can afford to hire an expensive lawyer with unlimited resources to figure out what is being withheld by the prosecutor."

For the above, Nifong should be commended rather than condemned.
He did not unfairly tarnish the deserved good reputation of a good system. He punctured the undeserved good reputation of a system with real systemic problems.

I think Nifong has done the public a valuable service in showing them how the law sometimes works. I'm not saying it always or even often works this way, or that anyone else has ever managed to cram so many different types and instances of prosecutorial abuse into a single case. But as followers of this case have documented at Liestoppers, TalkLeft and elsewhere, prosecutorial and police misconduct do happen, and any time you're involved in a criminal prosecution you'd best be on your guard against them.

If North Carolina tightens its discovery rules and fixes its prosecutorial-judge-shopping case assignment system as a result of this case even more good will have been inadvertantly done by Nifong.


I wish KC had quoted a bit more of the document, as I think the single most significant phrase in it is in the "Findings of Fact Regarding Discipline" part 7:
"undermined the privilege of lawyers in this state to remain self regulating."

Maybe I'm being overly cynical(*) but I think that can be fairly translated as:
"You jerk! You screwed up so bad that even the NC State Legislature couldn't ignore it. You've done a lot of awful things, but risking our really sweet self-regulation deal is by far the worst. For that, you get everything we can throw at you."

(*) Although as I mentioned in another thread, with regards to this case no matter how cynical I get I just can't keep up.

Anonymous said...

Am I missing something? Why are only Collin and Reade's names mentioned in your first paragraph?What about Dave Evans?

Anonymous said...

maybe Ubuntu will take a collection for Nifong. Sam & his friends can perform in front of the courthouse.

Come on 88 step up for the Man!Maybe Rev Barber & Cousin can take up a collection in Church?

What a ship of fools sailed on the SS Nifong!

mac said...

I motion that the Durhh Landfill be named after Mikey, and that
his retirement villa be located
in close proximity.

mac said...

#50
Nifong quote:
"doesn't mean that nothing happened. It just means nothing was left behind."

Levicy said the same thing on January of 2007; she still didn't understand.

Anonymous said...

3:19 is the Rae Evans understatement of the year!
Well said, Ole chap!

mac said...

Interesting that Nifey disregarded Judge Stephens' order and lied to Judge Smith.

Stephens went out on a limb - (that's being charitable) - for Nifong,
allowing reprehensible courtroom behavior and so forth.

IF Stephens has been unfairly castigated,
you can be sure that there will be
a stint in the federal system for Mikey,
which is not so easy to thwart.

Takes work to change gears, and to transfer courts, but it'll likely be a fait accompli.

Anonymous said...

Do you think this will influence what Whichard's committee will have to say now? How can they deny DPD enabling, if not involvement?

mac said...

Most of the Bar's quotes attributed to Mikey involve race.

Joseph R. Schwerzler said...

On the ORDER OF DISCIPLINE, page 24, paragraph 3, what does the dollar amount, which Nifong must pay within 90 days, add up to? I would think in the tens of thousands.
If Nifong had any sense of duty and well being for his family, he would divorce Cy now, allowing her all of his retirement before he's sent to jail. I believe Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, David Evans plus their families, would allow this, as Cy and her son should not be punished for his narcissistic behavior. They seem to be fair minded people only looking for justice against those that have persecuted them for the past 15 months.

Anonymous said...

Another historical persecution of a Christian! The only hope is that Linwood Wilson will carry on like the Apostle Paul.

Anonymous said...

Do you think that Nifong has an answer to the phrase "Hey Buddy, can ya bend over and pick up that soap for me?"

Anonymous said...

New POlice chief LOPEZ! Hodge is history! N & O

mac said...

Hi, Polanski!

Anonymous said...

Dear Joseph R. Schwerzler (@4:10):

Or they could adopt a slightly more aggressive position, such as the one of the indian Mugway (sp?) in the Last of the Mohicans, who vowed to cut the heart out of the British general and then remove his "seed" from the earth.

Hawkeye

Anonymous said...

I am so glad that the language in this leaves no doubt as to who is responsible for this Hoax, and what a scheming and dishonest piece of garbage this man has been. I can't even imagine how anyone could deliberately and systematically ruin the lives of 3 young men--all for a "few dollars more"!

duke2009mom

Eric said...

Page 3 point 12 and page 23 point 4 combine to make a do-it-yourself lawsuit kit. Page 3 point 12 concludes that Nifong took on a role other than his protected (prosecutorial immunity) role as DA, and page 23 point 4 documents the resulting harm. I love it.

bill anderson said...

I am so glad that the language in this leaves no doubt as to who is responsible for this Hoax, and what a scheming and dishonest piece of garbage this man has been. I can't even imagine how anyone could deliberately and systematically ruin the lives of 3 young men--all for a "few dollars more"!

duke2009mom

Jul 12, 2007 4:18:00 PM


You are right. It is a "banality of evil" moment. For a measly $15 grand a year, the guy was willing to throw away a lot of lives.

Ralph Phelan said...

'"doesn't mean that nothing happened. It just means nothing was left behind."

Levicy said the same thing on January of 2007; she still didn't understand.'

Or, like Nifong, didn't care.

Ralph Phelan said...

"Cy and her son should not be punished for his narcissistic behavior. "

Son no. Cy "You couldn't buy publicity like this for a million bucks"? HECK YES!

Anonymous said...

3:32:00

In the actual document David Evans name is there--KC must have left it out inadvertently!

Does anyone know how much Mikey is going to have to pay to cover the cost of the disbarment proceedings?

duke2009mom

Anonymous said...

Federal civil rights charges next?

Civil suits from the whole team?

Who's up to bat next?

One Spook said...

As long as we're substituting words, let's try the partial statement of the NC State Bar's Disciplinary Hearing Committee as if it were the conclusions of a peer review of the Klan of 88 by a reasonable committee of university professors from North Carolina.

"The Klan of 88's misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, and their families . . . The Klan of 88's misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to the teaching profession. The Klan of 88's conduct has created an impression among the public within and outside of North Carolina that Professors in general and ideologically-driven Professors in particular cannot be trusted and can be expected to lie to the public and to their peers in the Academy . . .

The Klan of 88's misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to the educational system. The Klan of 88 has caused an impression among the public within and outside of North Carolina that there is a systemic problem at Duke University and that a student as a criminal defendant can only get justice if he or she can afford to hire an expensive lawyer with unlimited resources to figure out what is being withheld by the prosecutor . . .

No discipline other than firing this Klan of 88 professors will adequately protect the public, the educational system, and the profession, given the clear demonstration of dishonest conduct, multiple violations, the pattern of dishonesty established by the evidence, and the Klan of 88's failure to recognize or acknowledge the wrongfulness of their conduct with regard to predjudging students on the basis of racial, gender and class bias and making false representations to other students and to the public."

You be the judge.

One Spook

Ralph Phelan said...

Eric said:
"Page 3 point 12 and page 23 point 4 combine to make a do-it-yourself lawsuit kit."

Seeing as how this was written by lawyers, that can't be an accident. Hoo boy, they really are pissed off at Mikey! (See my 3:26, second part.)

But I see maybe a potential downside for Mikey's victims - does this let the "deep pockets" of the county and state off the hook?

Anonymous said...

I'll believe federal charges when I see them. I still don't think anything will happen on that level.
What indication do we have that anyone in power cares?

Anonymous said...

BTW...off topic just a moment to a previous discussion that was a sidebar on another thread about Al Gore III's DUI and drug charge--

We were actually discussing it because the editor at the H-S tried to bring the Rodney King incident into the mix as a way to use race for everything---a letter writer, btw, took them to task nicely over that yesterday.

My neighbor Eric--who drives a Prius like the one druggie Gore III was driving--just came home and I yelled to him and asked how fast it could go. He said that, indeed, it will open up well over 105 mph.

So the H-S has engaged in lazy journalism again....all the while trying to make a comparison to the Rodney King chase.

How can Ashley still have a job?

Sorry....now continue on the topic of Mikey.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

One Spook - Brilliant and Spot On!

Anonymous said...

Anyone venture a guess what the bill will be?

4 or 5 days.... hummmmm....5 lawyers for about $1500 and hour... that's about 460K.. support staff, copies, postage and transmittances....another 15K ...

Anyone see this coming in less than $75K??? More??

me thinks about

Joseph R. Schwerzler said...

Hawkeye,
As I believe the families are of the catholic faith it would behoove them to be forgiving to the father's son. "DO not cast my father's sins upon myself. I am of my own making."
Nifong deserves all he recieve's, but does that justify vengence upon those who have not took part in this travisty?

Anonymous said...

4:14 PM

Lopez to be new Police Chief. Good things ARE happening in Durham (finally).

Anonymous said...

Again and again and again, the Bar's "findings of fact" run contrary to the sworn statements of Mike Nifong.

It's a real slap in the face, as the Findings repeatedly and officially say, in effect:

"Nifong is a liar....Nifong is a liar....Nifong is a perjurer...."

....all of this, in addition to Nifong's more substantive, underlying offenses, some of which also constitute crimes.


How's that frame-up workin' out for ya now, Mikey? Hope you enjoyed that election-night party, you scumbag.

Anonymous said...

The case also makes one much more hesitant to cooperate with the police even if the person is innocent. The boy's cooperation was used against them and made the frame up easier to create.

Anonymous said...

On Mikey's disbarment....I still believe that he's in a daze over this. Why else, when the carpet of life has been pulled from under him.....Cy is relegated to sneaking into the DA's office to pick up his legal toys......and most of the legal community think of him as Pariah Grande.......

......he picks up his guitar case to Play Real Good For Free?

If any of you can suspend your super ego and your ego just for a moment and get down to the "id", think what amount of money it would take for you to do something illegal....unrelated to the lacrosse case.

Something that might do harm to someone needlessly.

If you knew with certainty that you would never get caught.

What would it take? 10 million? 20 million? Less? Much more?

I know....I know....most of you are going to gasp and pull out some righteous indignation.

I would NEVER even think of such a thing!

But in the darkness of your own thoughts, many would have a price. IMO, everyone does...and none of us can say what we would do in any situation unless we're there.

I hope than none of us would succumb; however, I don't have that much confidence in human nature.

All of this is to say that, for me, the truly disgusting thing that makes Mikey's crime even more heinous is the small amount of money involved in this hoax.

$15,000/year added to his pension.

Now that is brutal.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

TO 4:47PM--

Are you kidding?

That's great. He was my choice of the three from what I read....even though I don't live in Durahm.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

""Do not cast my father's sins upon myself."

------

Mr Schwerzler, sir, respectfully, is that not a last-resort argument, even for the lowest of scoundrels?

"Sure, Mr. Jones tortured and murdered seven people....But if you put him in jail, you will only be punishing his poor wife and chiiillldruuunnnn...."

No, I don't think Nifong's victims need trouble themselves about that. Nifong's daughter is an adult, living on her own, and his son is nearly grown-up. His wife has money independently, enough to support their son in the accustomed manner.

In addition to which, Nifong's pension -- the pension he cheated and lied for, and destroyed innocent people's lives for -- will be secure from any attachment by creditors, including anyone who sues him.

Please, sir, do not waste your sympathy here.

Anonymous said...

To 5:03PM--

I agree totally.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

I disagree that Cy should not be held accountable. She had the ability to counsel de-railment at every turn. She was a willing enabler and has no excuse. Unlike, say Ken Lay's wife who probably had no idea how accounting was being manipulated, Cy knew every manuever he made. Why should she be able to live comfortably forever? On the other hand, the son --- trouble is, he's the most likely to not be able to deal with this longterm.

Anonymous said...

Lopez's first orders of business-

1) Fire Ron Hodge
2) Fire David Addison
3) Fire Mark Gottlieb
3) Fire Ben Himan
4) Promote John Shelton
5) Start rebuilding the reputation of the DPD.

Anonymous said...

I just finished IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TRUTH --- fascinating. Cy was the brains behind Nifong's campaign, according to Durham insiders. It's a good read.

Joseph R. Schwerzler said...

Anonymous,
If what you say is true, of Cy being of independent means, then to your thinking, the damaged families should sue her too for everything she has, leaving the family destitute. If your train of thought is to make them suffer also, why not jail the entire family for Nifong's willful destuction of the duke 3's lives. If they are not allowed to seperate themselves from the deceiver, you are thinking like the pot banger's, G88 and Brohead. Guilty by association. Also if one is to be taken seriously, I would like to know your name. Bill Anderson and KC do not make statements behind a "wall of silence" and neither do I.
I'm signing off now, heading home. Will look tomorrow for your reply.

Anonymous said...

I read the Bar Hearing judgment and noticed some questions about what Nifong will have to pay. The Official Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law deal with "costs."

In every jurisdiction I have seen, including a couple different states and federal practice, "costs" do not include attorney's fees. Costs usually relate to witness fees, deposition transcription fees, videographer fees, copy costs, etc.

In fact, those are some of the "costs" specifically mentioned in Lane Williamson's order/judgment. The good news is that depositons are very expensive. Even a short one like Ripbergers probably cost over $300.00.

If I had to make an educated guess, I would say $4k for the depos, another $1k for the videographer, copy costs at $1k, and witness fees (I guess they must have paid witnesses a subpoena and mileage fee), about $200.

The actual state bar rules are very vague about "costs," stating only that the Chairman of a disciplinary committee has the authority:

"to tax costs of the disciplinary procedures against any defendant whom the Committee imposes discipline, including a minimum administrative cost of $50.00."

N.C. State Bar Rules, Subchapter B, at .0105(a)(15).

Since the rule isn't specific, I would bet that the "costs" issue goes back to default -- just depo transcripts, witness fees, etc.

Still, that is anywhere from $5k to $15k, and Nifong also had to pay two lawyers, and he is now paying another one!

________________

"By the time Chuck Norrises' brain had sent the impulse to his muscle, K.C. Johnson had already blocked that punch, and he had written a scathing 2,517-word blog about the deterioration of Chuck's motor skills and how Nifong sucked." Excerpted from TIME MAGAZINE (on newstands now). MOO!
Gregory

Anonymous said...

JLS says....,

I believe that item 43 has an error and that Evans and Seligmann were not IDed in the prior arrays and that Finnerty was not included as he looks so different from her descriptions, rather than Evans and Finnerty being in those earlier photo arrays as the report states.

BTW, whomever try to "Klan of 88" word subsitution came up with a very clever device to show what they were and are.

Anonymous said...

TO Schwerzler (5:27PM)--

Can it. We're all stocked up on campfire kumbayas right now.

Feeling sorry for those who do not deserve empathy or sympathy is what got us into this Hoax in the first place.

Cy Gurney is the one with the balls. No, I don't think she should be stripped of her means; however, I believe that she is just as much a player in all this as Mikey.

Don't you know how these professional Baby Boomer marriages work? Even if it's a second marriage, the man marries a woman who makes as much or more mulah in her career as does he.

She's usually very plain and nondescript, but very efficient. Their orgasms are confined to balancing the checkbook and studying their portfolios.

You see, many of these women bury themselves by trying to be so much like a man. They never get what they want to make them happy so they use force in other areas.

Men and women will never be equal because they are so different in so many fundamental ways....however....when you find a coupling that so complements the other, that is a successful relationship.

I think if Cy had not tried to be the balls of the family, this might never had happened. Mikey doesn't really strike me as a savvy player in the public arena.

Cy is also Exhibit A for the little aggressive woman behind the scenes who always appears so demure and quiet......when she's really a very dominant force.

Don't feel sorry for all women who marry creeps. Not all of them deserve your sympathy.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

to ralph phelan - this doesn't get the city and county off the hook by any means. Nifong went beyond the scope of his prosecutorial immunity, meaning that he is personally liable for damages, but everything he did was done in the scope of his employment, as the city and county's agent. Meaning that the city and county are vicariously liable for everything he did and for all damages assessed against him.

Joint and several liability, aka deep pockets rule, means that a winning plaintiff (the LAX players) can collect the full amount from whomever they can get it from first, and then the defendants can sue each other to see how to split up the bill amongst themselves.

who they can get it from first = whoever has the best and biggest insurance policy.

Anonymous said...

to deborah - the paltry amount of money that Nifong went down for reminds me of one of my favority lines in "A Man for All Seasons". Sir Thomas More has just been falsely accused (and is going to be executed) because his old apprentice sold his testimony in exchange for an appointment from the King in Wales. Sir Thomas looks at him in disbelief and said "It profits a man nothing to gain the whole world and yet lose his soul... but for Wales??"

One Spook said...

JLS @ 5:43 says...., "BTW, whomever try to "Klan of 88" word subsitution came up with a very clever device to show what they were and are."

I try too. Thank you for the compliment.

One Spook

Anonymous said...

Mr. Schwerzler,

I shall decline to identify myself here, for several good reasons, including that I live in Sgt. Gottlieb's neighborhood and I am a NC attorney, and as I do not wish to restrict my comments here, some discretion is required -- but I assure you I am the same person whose post you (apparently) are responding to.

I hope that, in my respect for your feelings of mercy, I have not overestimated your powers of reasoning, or your reading comprehension.

Please point out where, in my previous post, I suggested that Cy Gurney should be sued or left destitute.

Please point out where I said that she should suffer, or be imprisoned -- you are either hallucinating, or confusing me with someone else.

Please point out any clue that I am angry at them -- you will fine none, you foolish person.

As any fair reader can plainly see, I was seeking to assure you that no lawsuit brought by the lacrosse players against Mike Nifong will leave his children bereft as you had feared. I expressed no desire for vengeance against his family, and you know it. Liar.

Anonymous said...

TO 5:56PM--

Indeed, life is stranger than fiction.

:>)

Debrah

Anonymous said...

3:55 Levicy never said any such thing.

mac said...

Dear Mr. Schwerzler,

For whom dost thee troll?
Perchance is it Tara, Queen of Trolls?
Prithee, is it Mr. Michael "Torquemada" Nifong?
For whom dost thee troll, requesting names?

It is, sir, none of your business!

Gary Packwood said...

Anonymous 2:53 said...

...The question I have now is, where are the potbangers and protestors? They were very eager to rally around a lying stripper to defend her against a crime that never happened.
...So come on potbangers and protestors where are you? There are real issues deserving of outrage that should be exposed to the world. After all this you might still have the opportunity to bring down some spoiled privileged white guys who think they are above the law....members of the DPD one and all.
::
I agree with you. Well Said.

While I am pleased with the report, I just don't believe that Nifong learned about the party on March 24, 2006.
The party took place on March 13, 2006 and I will always believe that every AAmerican clerical person in Durham City and Country government knew about that party by Noon of the following work day.

It may be years beyond my lifetime before we learn which potbangers and protestors were feeding Nifong information...and that includes Duke employees.

Perhaps criminal trials will help but I doubt it.

The undergraduate students at Duke are still at risk, in my opinion.
::
GP

Anonymous said...

Findings 1 thru 44 were known to the Durham community in both the May primary and the November election. Yet 95% of the AA community wanted Nifong in there. That's the kind of justice system they wanted. Makes me wonder why I should care up their system more than they do.

Anonymous said...

Cy and her son should not be punished for his narcissistic behavior. "

Cy was complicit in his transgressions - the kid is 18 - time to be on his own - he doesn't need the old man to support him anymore.

Anonymous said...

I feel bad for Nifong's son. It wasn't his fault that he was born into a family with such a corrupt and dishonest father.

One can only hope that he won't grow up to be just like Dad. One thing's for sure, he shouldn't be proud of his father in any way, shape, or form.

Mike Nifong is a disgrace.

Anonymous said...

JLS says...,

Nifong had only one thought throughout the entire process- How can this help me? He cared not a whit about anyone else

I believe the above is exactly right. I even believe:

1. Nifong indicted them to win an election.

2. Nifong went public to stir up the black community to help him win that election.

3. Nifong might well have dropped the charges after the primary but he knew he was in potential bar trouble. So it was in his self interest to keep this dead case going.

4. Nifong was willing to take this case to what he expected to be a hung jury or even dismissal of charges after Mangum's IDs were suppressed because that would serve him best with his potential bar issues.

5. Nifong was "sure" the bar would not act while the case was on going and dragging out the case got him closer to vesting.

6. Nifong was willing to go after a witness in this case to help get to trial to help with his bar issues.

Anonymous said...

Joseph R. Schwerzler said...
Hawkeye,
As I believe the families are of the catholic faith it would behoove them to be forgiving to the father's son. "DO not cast my father's sins upon myself. I am of my own making."
Nifong deserves all he recieve's, but does that justify vengence upon those who have not took part in this travisty?
____________________________

How is it vengenance to strip Nifong of his pension? The kid is 18 - most 18 year olds don't take money from their parents - they are on their own -so if they don't take money from their families - why do you care that Nifong won't have any to give.?

mac said...

6:17
In the Tara Levicy Statement,
Levicy he explained in that statement how rape
could have occured, but left no DNA behind:

"I wasn't surprised when I heard no DNA was found because rape is not about passion or ejaculation but about power."

Ah, Tara: that explains EVERYTHING!
Except for the fact that the AG totally discounted your testimony as-recorded:

The AG looked at the evidence, and discounted your opinion
that a rape may have occured as a result of the actions of the accused.

All - (ALL) - of the authoritative figures involved in this case, from the Bar to the AG,
have agreed that the DNA - (not your report) - is exculpatory.
Your report is not mentioned, perhaps, because it is simpleminded, inaccurate,
shows poor insight, poor logic and
a clearly inadequate pool of
knowledge (as transcribed, anyway.)

Maybe the DPD mistranslated what you gave them?

Your report (January 10, 2007) still maintains that
the DNA is NOT exculpatory.
Same as Nifong.

But then, you had to keep it up;
you called Investigator Wilson because you...

"wanted to clarify (your) statement about rape being about power because it could in some cases be consensual."

Huh? How can rape be rape if it is consensual?
Are you daft?

Tara, dear, and Tara's Trolls: just give it up;
the facts are there; the blogs (and testimony) are already a
matter of public record.

Guess you and your trolls are the only ones left believing
that your report exonerated the young men, when in fact,
your January report continues to support the assertion of guilt,
or the possibility of guilt.

Same as Nifong. Even January 10, 2007, you still believed
that the young men could have
committed rape on the night in
question on the person of CGM.

mac said...

I wanna be...Tara's Troll,
I wanna be...

Anonymous said...

Mac, please stop making that skag more significant than she is. Do you want to lay the hag or something?

mac said...

Gag! What an idea!

I'm sorry;
I just like jousting with Trolls!
They're so retarded, so easy to dismantle, so easy to...dismiss!

I'm sorry! I'll stop!
Thanks!

Anonymous said...

I think KC might be hot. Debrah is always saying it. When is his birthday?

Anonymous said...

Debbie, your thoughts are great! You should take over DIW when the Doc leaves for Israel.

What a great brain!

Anonymous said...

No where is Nurse Levicys name mentioned - not only as not the originator of the hoax or a participant. Lawyer Williamson had all the evidence aavailable to him. This has always been in the mind of some posters.
Nifong is the bad guy and originator of this mess for votes and election to DA.

Anonymous said...

Max - looks like Lane does not believe the nurse's role either. You made a lot of your post up. No where does this nurse say the DNA was not exculpatory. What say you about the nine meeting that turned into two - eleven months apart. Talk about not adressing the facts. You are part of the Nurse K trolls.

Anonymous said...

off topic

Kevin Cassese is playing right now on ESPN in Phi v NJ

low score 2-1

Anonymous said...

I must say that quite frequently on this blog I read people asserting that Cy Gurney is just as complicit in the persecution of the Lacrosse Three as Nifong himself, if not the eminence grise who masterminded the whole thing. However, I have yet to see anyone provide any facts which support this interpretation. I notice someone has attributed the statement about not being able to buy publicity like that coming from the lacrosse case for a million bucks to Cy Gurney. However, unless I am very much mistaken, it was Nifong who made that statement to Jackie Brown, with Gurney not even present. The only other "evidence" provided to support a theory of Gurney being culpable in Nifong's misdeeds are along the lines of Debrah's assertion that it's "how these professional Baby Boomer marriages work" and that this stereotype can be a perfectly adequate substitute for actual facts.

So, if you have the facts on your side about Gurney being culpable, please convince me the way that K.C. would: not with stereotyping and bluster, but with facts.

AMac said...

Every recent thread includes spirited defenses of SANE nurse Tara Levicy. Here is Google's compilation of KC's posts concerning her.

A (rhetorical) question:

If your brother/cousin/boyfriend/husband was being falsely accused of rape (if men can be falsely accused), would you want Levicy involved in the forensic process? Would her skills help catch the real rapist? Would they help protect your innocent loved one?

After reading KC's posts, I have my answer.

(Apologies for straying from the subject at hand.)

inman said...

JLS @5:43

Spot on. I noticed that too. Clerical error. Or maybe Matt, Brett and Adam are real?

inman said...

mac @ 6:18


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ---- I am in stitches ....

"Mr. Michael "Torquemada" Nifong"


hahahahahahah

Anonymous said...

Cy Gurney = Lady MacBeth

circumstantial evidence, really - Nifong had been a piddly little do-nothing, go-nowhere civil servant for his entire career, handling only Traffic cases (oh wow, what prestige!)and for someone with that many years in the DA's office, that spells LOSER in all caps. So then he marries Cy, and somehow he gets a pity appointment to finish out a term since he promises not to run - and lo and behold he gets ambition for the very first time in his life!!!

For a guy with a history like that, it sure looks like his newfound ambition was externally motivated. Playin' guitar is all he ever really wanted to do, after all.

gak said...

Joseph R. Schwerzler said...

..."as Cy and her son should not be punished for his narcissistic behavior".


According to the Y/P Its Not About the Truth, a Durham local woman was asked to run his campaign. Her name slips my mind, but she said Cy was more interested in getting him elected then he was. I think he had an outside influence at home to ontend with.

mac said...

7:27
Perhaps you should just go away:
the post is on Liestoppers.
I have fabricated nothing.

In any case:
The Bar Hearing was about the evidence that Nifong hid;
(No one thought Levicy had any credibility by then, anyway.)

This points to a more serious issue:

As of January 12, when Nifong recused himself,
he basically was admitting that Levicy couldn't
help him; her statement was
too astoundingly stupid (only to be exceeded by the vapidity of the
January 16 statement, taken over the phone.)

Why, after the December 15 hearing, would Nifong have Levicy give testimony?

Perhaps Nifong was going to use her as his defense;
she was going to be used as roadkill for the Nifong Express.
The old "Adam and Eve" defense:
she told me, and I ate.

By the time the SPs were done investigating, they'd pretty much concluded that she was irrelevant.

And she was irrelevant, I admit,
except that she was willing to continue to be a team player,
ignorant about how they (the DA and DPD) were using her and
were planning to use her, up until
January 12.

So I don't see her as much more than an ignorant dupe, used badly by investigators and the D.A.
It doesn't make her look good, but it does explain why she made the statements she made in report
known as "Tara Levicy Statement."
(Liestoppers)

One poster asked why I was going on so about Tara.

Good question: the answer is that you'd have to ask the interviewers from January 10, 2007 (Wilson and Himan) what was to gain,
since the DNA was exculpatory - and from Himan's testimony, the investigators and Nifong knew that to be the case on April 10.

How many months had passed?

It's clear that since Nifong gave up January 12,2007, this was a
date that can hardly be believed
to be coincidental to the January 10, 2007 date.

So this is the conclusion: Nifong, Wilson and Himan (perhaps others, such as Gottleib)
were using SANE Nurse Tara Levicy as a possible defense of their actions, if those actions should
be challenged, and perhaps - (to the point of January 12) - to claim that a rape could have happened, with or without DNA.

Case closed.

Anonymous said...

gak, her name is Jackie Brown and she said that Cy Gurney was the one spearheading Nifong's campaign and was a major influence.

inman said...

An evening at the Nifong's --- Act 1

Enter Cy into a sumptuous living room decorated in deep South with ill-gotten gains -- spanish moss adorns the windows:

"Miiiike ...Oh Mike -- please come!"

She adds in a quieter voice, "...but not in the Crystal."

She meant the Waterford of their earlier "kinky" days, but she couldn't help but think about the girl who had come by last January.

Enter Mike -- wearing a big smile.

"Cy ,... dollbaby ... guess what...."

Cy: "You smacked that mackeral on Malakou's butt?"

Mike: "Cy, please...(showing his displeasure at the obvious allusion to the Duke babe's).

They both look toward the driveway....

Cy: "Why is Gott-whatever his name is here?"

Mike: "...that's what I was going to tell you....we have come up with a really cool plan. We may need your mother's blessing and -- sorry -- we may need an advance on that trust fund...but, this is sooooo cool."

Cy sighs. Cy's sigh was breathless.

Cy: "Mike, you know how mom hates these hairbrained schemes and ...."

Mike cuts her short: "Cy ... babydoll ... its so cool...we will finally be able to fuck Duke, assure an annuity for the Heels and help the poor little Crystal girl out all at the same time. Wanna here?"

The door bell sounds and camera pans to Sgt. Gottlieb in his SS style uniform complete with jackboots standing on the porch.

To be continued.

Anonymous said...

"The kid is 18 - most 18 year olds don't take money from their parents - they are on their own..."
------------------------------------
Got to be kidding...

Anonymous said...

On another note

The BAR hearing was very careful, and thorough (at the end of hearing) to note the unusual donations ($$ received and $$ dispersed) of the disbarred DA's campaign.
Where might this come in to play?

(believe N said he was not aware of this, but his wife may have done this)

mac said...

8:33
Hi, Polanski!

inman said...

mac. my name is tom inman. not Polanski.

Not that Polanski is a bad name.

I've always liked names that ski.

But .... well I am who I am ....

Anonymous said...

Debrah 4:58

1)But in the darkness of your own thoughts, many would have a price. IMO, everyone does...and none of us can say what we would do in any situation unless we're there.
I hope than none of us would succumb; however, I don't have that much confidence in human nature.
:::
2)All of this is to say that, for me, the truly disgusting thing that makes Mikey's crime even more heinous is the small amount of money involved in this hoax.
_______
re 1)
I cannot agree with either of these statements. You are free to your opinion, but when you make your statements so emphatic, it's very close to what "all blacks or all white do." A bit like what the 88 have done.

Your universe may be small and that's why you feel that way. I certainly do not know why. As an immigrant whose roots are in a communist country, I tell you that I have seen many acts of charity and bravery, where someone could have gained something and not get caught.

My friend from Siberia had friends who very often reported and falsely accused others to the KGB and got money for it. They never got caught. She never did, even though she needed the money.
I wish you knew people of character.

2) I cannot agree that the truely disgusting part of this is the amount of money Nifong would gain. Even if the amount had been 10mil, it would have been awful. The disgusting part for me is going after someone under the color of authority. It's like a bad cop. You want to trust people like that, and faith in the justice system has received a black eye.

Just my opinion, not looking for an argument.

mac said...

Tom,
Sorry! Didn't see the name; saw the reference to mackeral, and...
mackeral + ass = Polanski.

You plagiarizer, you. (Just kidding.)

inman said...

The makeral reference was lifted from Shadee Malakou's short story...I'll bet she really likes stuff like that...and judging from her pisture, she IS a babe....

Anonymous said...

TO 7:49PM--

Sorry for the late reply. Just got back to Wonderland and saw your query.

You are quite correct that much evidence of Gurney's role is anecdotal; however, there's lots of it and where there's smoke, there's most often fire....especially when the comments are coming from people who have known Mikey and Cy for a long time.

Personally, I don't know what could be more uninteresting than the life and times of Mikey and Cy. Except for this Lacrosse Hoax of which they are a part, I wouldn't even be talking about the pedestrian elements of these two people.

IMO, the person in the relationship who has the key to the purse is usually the dominant one. And I don't care what type of relationship it is.....

.....He/She who has the gold, rules.

It has been widely reported that the home and most of the assets are in Cy's name.

Debrah

Anonymous said...

A "pisture" is a photo of the crotch.....

Anonymous said...

To "inman" (9:06 PM)

You're joking, right?

Debrah

inman said...

Debrah....no joke....I went to one of KC's links to her story ... and then I saw a picture of her. If the picture is at all representative and not doctored, she is quite attractive --

...and the short story indeed included reference to a smack on the cheeks with a mackeral...

Anonymous said...

LOOK AT THE NIFONG CAMPAIGN MONEY

Michael said...

What kind of training did Tara receive?
I just can't believe the really stupid things she
said. I fully believe in the veracity of the
statement "rape is not about passion or
ejaculation, it's about power" BUT I am sure
that the overwhelming majority of rape cases
still involve ejaculation.

That is, most rape cases may be about power
BUT almost all still involve emission of semen.
What an unbelievably stupid thing for her to say!
and she is a sexual assualt nurse? That she
is a SANE nurse is insane!

And she said made her incredibly stupid state-
ment for the purposes of keeping this case going.
That is, despite there being no semen, she would
not back off from her claim that a rape most likely occurred.

Her stupidity was further demonstrated when she
failed to comprehend the implications of the
sensitive DNA testing done by DSI.

Tara Levicy has done great harm to true rape
victims everywhere.

Anonymous said...

Is duke a state school?

Anonymous said...

To "inman" (9:12 PM)--

Ha! Far be it from me to stand in the way of true lust. To each his own.

I should never subject you to my own personal tastes....which do not include short little stumpy women with big destructive mouths emitting goofy effulgences transmitted from the sparse grey matter atop their short little necks.

But you're right--she so kuuuuuuuute!

Debrah

inman's libido said...

Hey Debrah...I didn't say I wanted to marry the wench or even date her or even talk to her....

....but when you're a "geezer" the thought of young supple mackeral-spanked flesh does something ....

Anonymous said...

TO "inman"--

LOL!!!

You're not a "geezer"....and I must admit that I didn't take the time to read about the urchin's mackeral allusion.

My humor doesn't run along those lines.

And this kind of thing certainly doesn't do it for me, sexually.

Consequently, I find the woman kind of odd; however, her columns throughout this lacrosse case are what solidify my opinion.

BTW, I just went above and skimmed the posts. Who is calling me "Debbie"? Oh, man.

:>)

Debrah

mac said...

Michael 9:17

Sad, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

Debbie,

You know you want to get your heinie waxed--just do it, like the Nike ad.

Mom

Anonymous said...

Wow - I though it was Crystal and the false complaint that hurt real rape woman. If the evidence is there, the accusers will be okay. What is good is that apparently no longer are LE taking rape accussers word for the claim.
The SANE is a 84 hour certification course, which is nothing - what do you expect for an 84 hour course? There is no expectation for a RN to know about DNA - that is the job of the labs and DNA experts.

Anonymous said...

STOP feeling pity for Nifong Jr. The boy is a man, just as the Dukies are MEN, not "kids".

Many a man have overcome the legacy of poor parenting. I, for one, am among them.

Save your pity for puppies, and children.

Anonymous said...

6:33 kThe son is 16 and in HS, Most of us expect to put the kids through college - few os us turn them out when thay are 18. BTW, no one knows what Cy did or did not do or say to Mike. Always a good idea to keep the families out ot these situations. The Columbians kill the families - the Mafia does not,

Anonymous said...

9:00 Good argument. The posts here are going down hill with accussations and unfounder claims. Sad to see that so many are in the 88 mode.

Anonymous said...

11:09pm
yeah, and it sure would have been good if Cy had kept her ass "out of these situations". Then no one would be talking so much about her actions and deeds.

neal said...

What a double standard. Here we have the DHC bemoaning the damage Nifong caused the legal profession. Great, string up Nifong.

Good thing public institutions can do that. I wonder what the cost to a private institution would have been in a case like this? Undoubtedly tens of millions of dollars would be awarded the plaintiff.

Further, Democrats would prety on private institutions of all kinds for years on account of this.

"Damage" to the legal profession indeed. The real damage is the way they treat themselves one way, and the ones they prey on in another way.

Anonymous said...

10:59 - Not so sure you have. Pretty agresssive and nasty for a simple message board. Maybe you should check out the cave.

inman with a scotch in hand said...

Regarding the last 6 or 7 posts:

Is literacy and self editing still taught? Or is everyone drinking tonight?

Anonymous said...

Sorry -10:56

Anonymous said...

@ 9:17 Michael said...

What kind of training did Tara receive?
I just can't believe the really stupid things she
said. I fully believe in the veracity of the
statement "rape is not about passion or
ejaculation, it's about power" BUT I am sure
that the overwhelming majority of rape cases
still involve ejaculation.

....

My simple google search shows that 1/3 of rapes have no ejsculation.

Anonymous said...

Well, without spell check and editors, this is more conversation than writing. These complaints are a pain in the a$$ and conversation stoppers..

Anonymous said...

Now, he will write 2/3 is an overwhelming majority. These folk are just upset their Levicy Monologues can not be proven.

Anonymous said...

~~~~ POST OF THE DAY ~~~~


As long as we're substituting words, let's try the partial statement of the NC State Bar's Disciplinary Hearing Committee as if it were the conclusions of a peer review of the Klan of 88 by a reasonable committee of university professors from North Carolina.

"The Klan of 88's misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to Reade Seligmann, Collin Finnerty, and their families . . . The Klan of 88's misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to the teaching profession. The Klan of 88's conduct has created an impression among the public within and outside of North Carolina that Professors in general and ideologically-driven Professors in particular cannot be trusted and can be expected to lie to the public and to their peers in the Academy . . .

The Klan of 88's misconduct resulted in significant actual harm to the educational system. The Klan of 88 has caused an impression among the public within and outside of North Carolina that there is a systemic problem at Duke University and that a student as a criminal defendant can only get justice if he or she can afford to hire an expensive lawyer with unlimited resources to figure out what is being withheld by the prosecutor . . .

No discipline other than firing this Klan of 88 professors will adequately protect the public, the educational system, and the profession, given the clear demonstration of dishonest conduct, multiple violations, the pattern of dishonesty established by the evidence, and the Klan of 88's failure to recognize or acknowledge the wrongfulness of their conduct with regard to predjudging students on the basis of racial, gender and class bias and making false representations to other students and to the public."

You be the judge.

One Spook

Excellent Post, One Spook

R.R. Hamilton

Anonymous said...

11:48 you pious jerk. We have people here of different educations, old folk, sick folk, teenagers. People who have a willingness and right to express their opinion as best they can.

Anonymous said...

Now, now, 12:33...all you say may well be true, but as form myshelph...I bean dranking!!!!


...Hic!!!

mac said...

Inman has a point:
the first 10:56 always spells
accuser "accusser."
It is annoying, and he always makes stupid - if spirited -
defenses of the half-wit nurse
in training.

Ya didn't do her any favors in
your "deffense" of the PC nurse-with-no-experience.

Durrhhh!

It's ok to misspell a word,
but to spell the same word wrong
again and again?

It's also be ok if this poster had an
idea to fall back on, but that
particular poster has a definite
shortage of ideas.

In short...
I wanna be...Tara's Troll,
I wanna be...

mac said...

10:56/11:54

STFU

SANE nurses should be at least as knowledgeable about DNA
as a garden-variety student in an
Anatomy and Physiology class.

You're right, though: what would we expect of a nurse who only had
7 months experience as an RN, hadn't physically received her
certification, had no experience in the field
(experience means years) and still felt qualified to
make all sorts of stupid, unverified, inacurate statements
about rape and DNA evidence.

You're right: what should we expect from Nurse Tara?

Nurse Tara acts like she's been pithed!

Ralph Phelan said...

To me, the significant thing about Nurse Tara is that she didn't stand by her original report.

If in December she'd been saying "Well, the first time she talked to me she said they ejaculated and she remembered the taste, so this doesn't fit," I'd be willing to write off everything up until then as inexperience.

But instead she was justifying Crystal not knowing if condoms were used, which means she was changing her testimony to fit the latest version of Crystal's story. Just like Nifong, Gottlieb and Meehan. At that point she clearly wasn't just being swept along in the hoax, she was expending energy to keep it going. She's a liar.

Anonymous said...

You know nothing about RNs or their jobs. Seven months is a lot of experience in the nursing job. They are not in training to do brain surgery. The theory is you learn the craft and then go practice. Not you learn by On Job Training. The old "correct the DA in public" is not her duty - The sainted Sgt Sheldon did not do that either. Having the hard copy in hand of the dopey certificton course is not neessary to have "passed" this nothing course given by the YWCA.
Time to leave this nurse alone. No complaints from her governing body - NC Board of Nursing.

Anonymous said...

The disbarment order so clearly lays out line by the line the entire civil case, so it was worth the wait. When do we expect the young men to file the suit? And, since the Whichard committee has no subpoena authority, no authority to question under oath, and no disciplinary or enforcement authority, whatever comes out of those hearings is not going to be of legal value to the prosecuting civil case, is it? So if Gottlieb, City D, County D, DPD are going to be named, what are the families waiting for...and I don't mean to hurry up, just curious what next measured steps need to be taken. I respect the patience they have shown, and they obviously have great advice.

Ralph Phelan said...

"The old "correct the DA in public" is not her duty - The sainted Sgt Sheldon did not do that either."

Neither did he modify his reports to fit the story of the day, or talk to the press. Tara did. If she had restricted her interactions with Nifong to "you've got my report," and not spoken to the press, she'd be fine.

It's the things she said to investigators and reporters after the "no dna" evidence came out that damn her.

I don't think she's legally liable for anything, as her role was pretty minor. I'm making a moral judgement based on her willingness to actively support the frame as late as December, however ineffectual her efforts may have been.

Anonymous said...

I think everybody is sleeping it off this morning. That was a Hell of a bizarre chat-room going on here last night! I haven't seen a conversation disintegrate that fast since I gave up drinking Captain Morgan with my book club.

Anonymous said...

Even if the Whichard committee has no authority to question under oath, I would think in a civil case a witness could be asked "For the Whichard committee hearings, you said the moon is green cheese, so why do you now say under oath it is brae?"

Bill Alexander

Anonymous said...

No all of us on this board drink alcohol - obviously you do. Maybe you were reading through an alcohol haze.

Anonymous said...

"no all of you do?" Hic

Actually it was at 11:00 AM with my 2nd Diet Coke which, while it will produce certain euphoric effects, hardly classifies as a "haze."

Anonymous said...

If you can not recognize a dropped T, you are doing more than coke.

Anonymous said...

well, Ralph - what is your answer to the rest of the post" BTW, We do not know what she told Nifong eleven months later in January. That is quess work. I do agree she is a minor fiqure and not the lynchpin of the hoax.

Anonymous said...

I only recognized the dropped T----
you dropped it. My, we are testy today, aren't we? Headache?

Anonymous said...

"No complaints from her governing body - NC Board of Nursing."

Hmmmm, isn't that the same line used by Nifong? 'No complaints from Judge Smith, therefore Judge Smith thinks I did nothing wrong'? We saw how well that worked out for him...

Anonymous said...

This is not the same and it is disingenous of you to suggest it is.

Michael said...

Hey mac, you rock! Very good points!

To 11:48 and 11:50: Although I could not find that
statistic, that 1/3 of rapes involve no ejaculation,
let's go with it. Now, at some point Ms Magnum
settled on the number 3 as the number of attackers.

So, assuming the three attackers to be statistically
independent on the matter of ejaculation, it follows
that the probability of there being no semen at all
deposited on Ms Magnum drops to 1/3 raised to
the third power. That is, the probability drops to less than 4%.

I usually would not comment on someone being
not too bright, but when that unintelligence is
used to hurt people, as was done here, that's
another matter all together.

Comments that Ms Levicy made implied that
she thought that they the boys did something
like wiping Ms Magnum down afterwards, to
explain why there was no DNA found.
I am sorry but she should have known
enough about DNA testing to realize the
absurdity of that statement. Eventually,
defense counsel explained this to her, which
prompted her call to the DA's office to add
another possibility for why no semen was found:
that it (rape) didn't happen.

Of course, she also opened the door to
the possibility that condoms were used, even
though Ms Magnum said they weren't. ("She's
being raped, so the victim can never be sure")

Okay, so here's the scenario. Boys drinking at
party with strippers have the sense of mind,
despite their drunkenness and mental thirst
to power dominate, to put condoms on during
this brutal attack AND then further, despite
their drunken state, have the presence of mind
to wipe her down afterwards.

And, let's not forget another one of her "dumb"
statements: "I have never known a woman to lie
about being raped." This is one of the scariest
statement she made; it was the root of her
other efforts to explain away the lack of any
phsyical evidence (which, as pointed out above,
is not her job.)

It's a tragedy when it happens
and there are typically psychological issues, but
false allegations of rape happen. Part of
her job is to help the police determine if an
allegation of rape is credible. If she had done
her job properly, Nifong would not have been
enabled to spawn this whole tragic affair.

Anonymous said...

No - it is not part of the job to help LE determine whether or not there was a rape. That is only the job of the Police. Where do you come up with this stuff?
Levicy never commented on a "wipe down" You made that up also.
Maybe she has never met a woman "who lied about rape" Neither you or I know her experiences.
I have never met a woman who said she was "raped". Does that mean no rapes occur?

Anonymous said...

Although Nurses Peggy Perfect portrayed themselves as Florence Nightingale, even they did not claim that nurses help the police to determine whether a rape occured or not. Too Funny.

Michael said...

If it is not PART of the SANE nurse's job to help police
determine if an allegation of rape is credible,
then when Ms Levicy was asked by the police
whether she thought Ms Magnum's claim of
rape was credible, why didn't she answer
"that is not my job to assess that" ?

Why did the police even ask her that question?

Also, what is the point of the various tests that she
performed on Ms Magnum? I thought the results
of those tests are provided to police to assist
them in determining if a rape occurred.

Why do you bring up Ms Levicy's personal experiences?
They should not be a factor here. What was
the point of her making that statement?
The implication seemed to be that part of the
reason that she believed Ms Magnum was that
personally has never known a woman to lie about
rape. But, as a trained professional, she should
still be aware that false allegations of rape do happen.

Regarding your last statement, that logic could
not be deduced from anything I said whatsoever
-- in fact, the exact opposite. My point is that
just because she has not encountered a woman
who has falsely alleged rape (until Ms Magnum),
that doesn;t mean that false allegations of rape
don't happen. THUS, logically, it follows that just
because you have never met a woman that has
been raped, doesn't mean that rape doesn't happen.

I have a cousin who was raped, a former girlfriend
who was raped, and my own daughter was molested.

Michael said...

To 5:32, towards the beginning of Mr Nifong's
testimony, he stated that he believed that a
rape had occurred based on statements from
a SANE nurse and two policeman (who based
their belief in part on the SANE nurse's belief in
a rape.)

So, you must have just burst out laughing when
you heard that? "Too funny"

Anonymous said...

No - actually what Nifong said on TV 3/29 - in living color - was "My reading of the emergency nurse's report indicates a rape occured." That was seven days before the medical report was picked up. The medical report did not support his lying eyes. You got it all wrong - again. He claimed he never read anything - were we watching the same trial? What about the "wipe down"? what about a staff nurse helping the police decide if a rape occured? Too funny!!!

Anonymous said...

Nifon specifically said "He did not read most of the nurse's report". The police knew very quickly that no DNA matched the team. They also knew the medical report demonstrated no evidence of rape. This was about votes and an election - not about rape.

Anonymous said...

That is the big point - we only have the word of three liars that she commented on the event. Most of us do not say "it is not our job" - The lab results tell the tale. The point of the materials being collected and sent to the lab for testing is to determine if there is any DNA, seman, etc to connect the claim of rape to the accused. The Doctor and Nurse just collect the materials and the accusser answers to checklist Q$A. My "never raped" was satire.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Mac - I did accusser again.

mac said...

I like the post that states that 7 months is a "lot of experience"
for a nurse!

Wow.

You really proved your mettle here!
YDKJS( you don't know jack shit)

mac said...

Michael:
We don't need to be arguing with Tara's Trolls;
they can't be convinced by clear evidence,
by Tara's many inconsistent and moronic statements
(as transcribed by investigators)
and they can't be bothered to look these up on Liestoppers,
choosing instead (on one post) to
claim that I "made them up."

In short, Tara's Trolls have the same M.O.
as the 88: unapologetic and
incapable of critical thinking.

What we know is: Levicy was a silly SANE who made ridiculous comments
and assertions of her beliefs, mostly unsupported by clinical evidence or data,
and that even Nifong came to that realization by January 12.

Too bad that Tara's Trolls aren't even as observant as Nifong.

Anonymous said...

Just goes to show that you know nothing about nursing. You and Michael are unable to answere the real questions in this event.

Anonymous said...

I could call you, the Ks troll, but find that language stupid.

Michael said...

Hey Mac! Again I say, you rock!
I appreciate your support -- thanks!

You are right, it is absolutely pointless
to argue with the Tara Trolls. I am sorry that
I let myself get dragged into it with them.
I didn't realize they were so illogical in their
blind defense of Taras's words and actions that
enabled Nifong.

I didn't make up anything. You need to look
back what I wrote -- your zealousness is causing
you to say things too quickly. I didn't say Ms
Levicy said that the boys wiped Ms Magnum down.
I said that she said something that would imply
that they wiped her down.

It was reported that she said "just because there is
no physical evidence, that doesn't mean that it (the rape)
didn't happen." Now, after a brutal rape by
three attackers in which Tara admitted in court
that Ms Magnum said NO condoms were used,
how else do you get rid of the phsyical evidence?
other than wiping her down? hose her down?

Of course, even wiping her down would not have
gotten rid of DNA evidence, especially not the
transfer DNA.

And the claim that
we are not able to answer the real questions in
this event -- it's laughable (now that's "Too funny"),
it's pathetic, it speaks of delusions of grandeur,
and to be honest it's a big scary too (that a
person would so blind to the obvious truths here.)

To claim that SANR nurses do not assist police
in assessing whether a rape occurred is the most
laughable thing that they said. Check this web site:
http://www.montrosepress.com/articles/2006/12/10/local_news/2.txt

Tara Trolls: you can say what you want -- I am
not coming back to this particular thread. So go
ahead with your inSANE comments! :)

Michael said...

Before the Tara Trolls shoot from the hip again
with incorrect information, they might want to check
out Tara Levicy's Jan 10, 2007 statement posted at
the link below. On the 2nd page, she specifically
talks about Magnum saying she was wiped down
with a rag in the bathroom. Oh, I thought she
never said that????

http://p206.ezboard.com/fhackedbannedandlockeddownfrm45.showMessage?topicID=75.topic