[Scheduling note: I will be posting periodically today on the Whichard Committee hearing into the DPD's misconduct. Accordingly, this week's Group of 88 profile will run tomorrow.]
North Carolina’s senior senator is Republican Elizabeth Dole. The wife of former Majority Leader Bob Dole, Elizabeth Dole served in the Reagan and Bush I cabinets. As secretary of transportation, she ignored traditional Republican reverence for federalism and played a key role in using federal power to force all states to adopt a drinking age of 21.
Even as several Republican members of Congress have followed the lead of North Carolina congressman Walter Jones; and even as Democratic senator Barack Obama publicly endorsed a Department of Justice inquiry, Dole has remained silent.
A letter sent over her signature to a DIW reader suggests that she is unaware of significant developments in her own state.
Dated June 27, 2007, the letter read:
Thank you for contacting me concerning the indictment of lacrosse players from Duke University. I appreciate hearing from you and would like to take this opportunity to respond.
As you may know, in the spring of this year [sic], three players from Duke University's lacrosse team were charged with rape, sexual assault, and kidnapping. All three players have maintained their innocence.
As a U.S. senator, I have no role in specific criminal justice cases, and it would be inappropriate for me to intervene in, or publicly comment on, an ongoing criminal investigation [sic] and pending judicial proceeding [sic] such as the one involving the lacrosse players.
Again, thank you for contacting me with your concerns. Should you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact me or visit my website at http://dole.senate.gov.
With my warmest best wishes,
Elizabeth Dole
With Attorney General Roy Cooper previously mentioned as a possible challenger to Dole in 2008, perhaps the senator had partisan reasons to pretend the case was still alive. But Cooper has made it clear he’s not going to run, and Dole appears likely to win a second term.
Moreover, by claiming that it would be “inappropriate” for her to urge a federal inquiry into Mike Nifong’s misconduct, is Dole accusing her fellow Republicans—such as Jones, Kansas congressman Todd Tiahrt, and New York congressman Peter King—of behaving in an “inappropriate” fashion?
Is Dole aware that the Justice Department has authority to open a civil rights inquiry into the authorities’ behavior in this case, an issue on which it would be most appropriate for her—as a sitting U.S. senator—to comment?
Finally, is it possible to believe that in late June, the state’s senior senator was unaware that the highest-profile “criminal investigation” in the state’s history had ended more than two months before?
133 comments:
as a citizen of Louisiana, I would like to personally thank the people of NC for electing a bone-head so our guys don't look so bad...
What is far more likely is that Senator Dole has an idiot for a staffer. Senators get tons of inquiries. What the DIW letter writer ought to do is call Liddy's office and politely ask about this letter. A staffer will likely call the DIW letter reader back with a better answer.
If enough North Carolina residents call or write Senator Dole about this issue, she will take notice.
re Dole
I don't think she wrote the letter. Know this: she has 1 dumb assistant.
Professor, I'd appreciate it if you'd comment on the [deleterious?] social consequences of Cooper's failure to indict a vicious thug. What kind of message does that send to citizens who still think there is the possibility for civilization?
Polanski
"Pathetic" is the only word that comes to mind.
Please allow me to paraphrase Dole's response:
Dear______:
Thank you for your recent letter. There is no immediate political upside to my making this one of my issues.
Thanks!
And with warmest personal regards and hopes that you will offer a contribution to my campaign, I am
Yours very truly,
Senator Dole
"Liddy" Dole (as she was known then) is of course a Duke alum, BA class of 61 or 62 or thereabouts, I recall. Harvaad Law.
dole is a POL..she never loses on anything...none of the students votes in NC...just another government official "covering up innocence" to get the negroe vote
Thanks Senator. You and your letter are now a real contender for inclusion in ...
The Lazlo Letters: The Amazing, Real-Life, Actual Correspondence of Lazlo Toth, American!
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=62-1563052857-0
The Lazlo Letters contains nearly 100 notes to public figures, including then-President Nixon, Vice President Ford ("I've been Vice President of a lot of organizations myself, so I know how you feel."), Bebe Rebozo, Lester Maddox, Earl Butz, and America's top business leaders. The replies, says the author, "classic examples of American politeness."
In an on-going correspondence with the White House, Toth suggests everything from ridiculously corny jokes for the President to use, to a campaign song sung to the tune of "Tea for Two." He asks the president of a bubble bath company just how to use the product, as the packaging instructions specifically state to "keep dry."
"No matter how absurd my letter was, no matter how much I ranted and raved, they always answered," reports the author. "Many of these replies are beautiful examples of pure public relations nonsense." One is not: columnist James Kilpatrick has a lone sentiment for Toth-"Nuts to You!" 247,000 copies in print.
::
GP
I may, as often, just be the literalist in the crowd, but surely it's "Libby," not "Liddy," Dole. If you don't believe me, just enlighten yourselves by Googling "Libby Dole," where you'll find a lot of amusing stuff. Amazing how bad language drives out good: I heard a TV commentator refer to a "covenant" when he meant "convent." And so it goes. Get out of your boxes, you people; move around!
12:26
That's one of the dumbest posts I've read. Just make comments like a normal person instead of copying comments from other people. Do you have anything original to say? Ever?
12:35
Same question.
P
This has to be a phony letter. Dole is a politician like they all are, but she isn't that stupid. The member of her staff who let that letter go out should be fired.
You'd think her staffers would take a second to run a Google search to get updated on the facts rather than let a letter go out that makes the Senator appear to be woefully out of touch with events in her own state.
This is the fault of a staffer. My son and daughter were both college interns in Congressional offices, and when you have practically unpaid help, you sometimes get this.
They both "screwed" up a couple of times and made the Representative look terrible--but it got resolved. Sometimes you have to put young staff on a really short leash.
My son worked as a Congressional staffer when he was in high school, so I agree with the 1:48 poster. However, Senator Dole has not exactly been on top of this miscarriage of justice in her home state.
Whether a staffer did it or not, her name is on the letter. She wants to get re-elected, her silence is testament to that.
It's her shame that after all the suffering that has come out of this case for three completely innocent young men and their families, that this is all she has to say. I think the majority of Duke Alum's are very supportive of the university and just glad that it got resolved and can be put behind them. They don't care about the three students.
She may know more about the feasibility of winning a civil rights suit in North Carolina when the victims are not black.
I concur with past bloggers on the law change for drinking back to 18, Dole's role in the present law may also have impeded her as it is not in dispute that underage drinking occurred at the party.They all could have been arrested for that, actually surprised for harrassement purposes the police didn't do that.
Senator Dole graduated Duke '58
Master's Harvard '60
Harvard Law '65
Nickname is Liddy as KC has it
Carolyn says:
No one in North Carolina can be ignorant of this case unless they want to be!
Dole is not asking aides about this case for the same reason Nifong was not asking Crystal about her lies -- i.e., because questions would only bring an answer neither wants to hear.
12;34
Say What?
She knows about the case, she chooses to appear dumb for her constituency. Her re-election would seriously be harmed if she came out in defense of her alma mater and the young men involved. They don't fit the profile of people who deserve consideration and they won't effect the vote in NC.
She should have the decency to pay enough attention to make sure a response letter at least showed she was in the same time zone as everyone else. If above bloggers are correct, the free help must be a shut-in who can't see or hear.
Gary Packwood, am reminded of the book, "Reagan, A Life in Letters". It turns out Reagan was a prolific letter writer his entire life. Most interesting is the depth and breadth of the letters.
I particularly enjoyed his ongoing correspondence with the average Joes who disagreed with him. He actually would personally respond to many that wrote him.
The book also debunks the notion that he was a Hollywood boob. His grasp of mulitple topics, very early was quite clear as well as his ability to communicate clearly.
Inman, beg to differ on education. No child left behind only institutionalized the dumbing down we are seeing today. Some have no business being in school dragging every one down. School is a privilege and if some don't want to be there, then so be it.
Inre; Dole staffer...begs the question as to why she was not out front of this...she's no different that Brodhead, she is not a leader.
The letter issue would be a non-issue were she out front. She was not and now that opportunity is lost.
A few more reasons why one should really respect and appreciate Professor Johnson's work.
1. Transparent: Unlike the frauds in AAAs, Women's Studies, Gang of 88, et al, he links his published work so the articles are easy to find. They on the other hand work in the dark not allowing any transparency into their work, much less being self-critical.
Curriculum Vitae
2. Humility: I don't recall him converying why he is going to Israel. It turns out he has been appointed the Fulbright Distinguished Chair in the Humanitities at History Department at Tel Aviv University. What did you achieve today? Me either...
Fulbright Distinguished Chairs
Keep in mind the chuckleheads almost succeeded in denying him tenure. That speaks volumes of the lunacy of today's higher education.
3. More humility: Check out the other advance praise for his upcoming book. Pretty good company, I'd say.
This compelling narrative dramatizes the fearsome power of unscrupulous police and prosecutors to wreck the lives of innocent people, especially when the media and many in the community rush to presume guilt. The inspiring story of how the defense lawyers turned the tables on a dishonest DA points to the crying need for reforms to give defendants of modest means a fighting chance when law enforcement goes bad.”
—Nadine Strossen, ACLU president and professor of law at New York University Law School
“In what surely is this year’s most revealing, scalding and disturbing book on America’s civic culture, the authors demonstrate that the Duke case was symptomatic of the dangerous decay of important institutions—legal, academic, and journalistic. . . . With this meticulous report, the guilty have at last been indicted and convicted.”
—George F. Will
“A gripping, meticulous, blow-by-blow account of the whole grotesque affair. It is beautifully written, dramatic, and full of insights, exposing how vulnerable the prosecutorial system is to abuse and how ready the liberal media and PC academics are to serve as leaders of the lynch mob. A must read for anyone who cares about individual rights and justice.”
—William P. Barr, former U.S. attorney general
“A chilling, gripping account of how our judicial system can go terribly wrong. This is an important book that brings the Duke story to life and exposes troubling facts about our justice system and our citadels of higher learning. You may think you know the Duke story—but you don’t until you read this book.”
—Jan Crawford Greenberg, ABC News legal correspondent and author of Supreme Conflict
“The analysis of the notorious Duke rape case in this book is hard to accept. According to Stuart Taylor and KC Johnson, this episode was not just a terrible injustice to three young men. It exposed a fever of political correctness that is more virulent than ever on American campuses and throughout society. . . . Unfortunately for doubts, the authors lay out the facts with scrupulous care. This is a thorough and absorbing history of a shameful episode. ”
—Michael Kinsley, columnist for Time
By the way, "The selection of the Distinguished Chair Fellowship is based primarily on academic excellence."
Academic excellence, what a novel idea...
Another point of view: Yes, the Dole office sent a sort of prescripted letter. Neither Dole nor anyone else owes Durham-in-Wonderland any thoughtful response to anything. Why would anyone provide one? So anonymous bloggers could take potshots? and do NOTHING for the members of the Lacrosse team...Those men have lives and may well wish to have this entire chapter in their lives closed. This blog isn't helping.
no justice, no peace 3:32
Thanks for that nice post. Congrats on the Fulbright, KC. Most excellent.
nj, np,
Fulbrights, which are wonderful grants, are not just about "academic excellence," however defined.
I wonder if it's academics, who so many on this list disparage, who chose KC for his Fulbright. I think so...
Is the Distinguished Chair in the Humanities to do research or to teach? Different requirements for different Fulbrights. Requirements and standards vary not only within the Fulbright grants but also from country to country.
Before the hounds attack. Yes, I know what I am talking about. I have had Fulbrights.
There is no excuse for a letter dated in June of this year to mention that the boys maintain their innocence. Of course they maintain their innocence...1) they are innocent, and 2) the AG proclaimed them to be so more than 2 months before this letter was written.
How do people in this state function?? They act as if NC is somehow not attached to the world in which the rest of us live. So many of the people in this case are frighteningly unaware...or frighteningly corrupt. I'm not sure which option is more disconcerting.
They are NOT BOYS!!!!
Once I was a supporter of Elizabeth Dole, but when I lived in North Carolina I learned that she is out of touch and silent on most NC issues. She should not be representing NC, now or in the future!
Elizabeth Dole has long asked the press to quit referring to her as "Liddy", a hated childhood nickname. She also dislikes Libby.She has asked everyone to call her Elizabeth. Since she is a worthless politician ---- good day, Liddy!
KC, you are wonderful. Wishing you a wonderful trip to Israel!
5:09's childish post--calling someone a name s/he doesn't like--epitomizes why no politican or anyone else who can avoid it will speak to KC on the record. Really, does calling someone "Liddy/Libby" when she prefers "Elizabeth," for whatever reason, do anything to further the discussion. Not likely.
3:41 am
"This blog isn't helping."
And exactly what did YOU do to take the sunny smile off the face
of the parasite M. Nifongii?
Right: you made M. Nifongii smile!
Brought a smile right to his face,
for certain.
Ah, yes: bravely told one of the
heroes in this adventure, KC Johnson,
that he "isn't helping."
DIW is his vehicle, madam;
if you don't like the ride,
I'd suggest you follow Dole's horse'n buggy, cleaning up.
The queen is not awake; she's asleep in her buggy,
tired from salmon-eating and picking through
those many lunch invitations.
Which to choose? So time-consuming!
Such a dreary existence for
the dear Senator from North Korealina!
Tell us: what is it that Dole HAS done?
How has she helped three innocent ("innocent!" says N.C.'s AG)
young men from her alma mater from going to jail
for a crime that never was,
hounded by an inept, corrupted
legal system in a New Orleans-like
pool of biosolids, attacked and vilified
by a press that was utterly committed to convicting them,
with-or-without trial?
No? No answer?
You mean, it takes a professor from
(Gawd!) New Yawk to
help justice? Is New Yawk fa'ther
away than Washington? Who would know,
since the flights all take
SOOO vera long!
What have you - (or Senator Dole,
your boss) -
done to help justice in this case?
Your response in the form letter was the
literary equivalent to:
"Oh, let them eat cake!"
Maybe Marie's press secretary
(or official letter-signer)
spun those words off her own pen,
merely using the official
wordsmith for the royalty?
Marie didn't say those words?
But you did, Senator Dole - you or
your simpletons who speak for you.
"Have maintained their innocence"
is just as bad as
"let them eat cake."
Lay off the o'erdeurves, madame:
they make your brain woozy and
unreliable.
Perhaps, since you are so utterly helpless,
you might contact U.S. Attorney General "Fez" Gonzalez,
having bothered to look up the facts in the case
(or are you waiting for KC's book?)
Will it be too onerous to mention
it to dear Fez while sipping tea
the good AG and his wife?
The thought of our brave servicemen,
sacrificing overseas, while you can't even be bothered to keep
up with local events! No one
should die for you! No one should
stub their little toe on your behalf!
Or maybe you don't see it the way it needs to be seen,
having been inculcated with NPR whilst your driver takes you
here and yonder:
"Oh," you say.
"Rape case? What rape case?
With those HORRIBLE - just horrible! -
stick jocks who hired those UNSEEMLY
negras to strip for them! Just HORRID!
No one should feel sorry for them!"
You appear to be the Dole staffer who composed the BS letter.
Better tell your boss that things
are restive here in the heartland.
(BTW: "restive" doesn't mean "at rest.")
The Dole letter leaves me speechless. If Dole is not aware of what is happening in one of the most highly-publicized cases in her state's history, then someone needs to check to see if she is still alive. (Does a thermometer reveal 98.6 or room temperature?)
Bill,
No, that's her IQ.
Perhaps Anon 5:23 can return with some concrete evidence that people are refusing to speak with KC on the record for any reason other than they want to avoid the hard questions KC would ask. If he can't I will persist in my belief that that virtually every person in Durham government, the Duke administration and NC media has a vested interest in not being cornered by KC.
The example of DA Mike Nifong Crying on the stand one half hour after Lane Williams began to ask him difficult questions remains vivid in my mind.
When will we hear from you ANON 5:23? Can you get a handle so we can distinguish you from the rest of the ANON population.
Wayne 6:15
Don't worry: they come 'n go.
Like Samples' customers.
this is for wayne fontes and all of the, in my opinion, rabid posters on this blog: i have no more evidence for my opinion than you have for yours. think what you want about why people would not speak to kc.
no one is obliged to speak to to him and why would anyone want to knowing that whatever he or she said would be posted on his blog? this is a free country. freedom of speech is not obligation to speak.
i find it amusing that you are so busy defending young men who may or may not want your so-called help. they seem to be getting on with their lives, i wonder why you are not letting them?
6:27
You seem to be perfectly willing
to speak for them: do you know them? (Perhaps they were in
one of your classes?)
You must be a member of the 88, desperate to
get off the stove (using an uncapitalized "i" is a trademark
of one of those dimwits, BTW)
There is still the pursuit of justice to be had,
dear friend, lest this become a
routine occurence.
There are:
Still criminals in this case to try.
Still apologies from people like the 88 to be made.
Still apologies from MSM yet to be offered.
Still Federal crimes to be investigated.
Still 80-something professors/instructors to be replaced.
Why ah sure am offended by almost everything ah read this morning. All you all needs to write Liddy some mo letters and get her straight about what's been happening. Come to think about it, Bill Anderson, bless him, has pointed out again, correctly as he most often does, that maybe the thermometer is not workin' or is the wrong thermometer or is in the wrong place. Why my boys has always been innocent and was innocent and still is innocent and Liddy needs to know you just can't go around tryin' to lynch people . . . lessen you live in Durham, North Carolina. Hey, ain't Liddy Dole the senior, no offense, senator from North Carolina? Why I declare . . . my memory ain't what it used to be . . . where's Durham anyway . . . ain't it on the way to the beach . . . no, that's Lubiano ain't it . . . .
6:37
Good post: I don't think Dole knows
Omaha Beach from the Outer Banks.
Robert Byrd - (formerly known as "Senator Whitesheets") -
has at least had the decency
to read the morning paper,
and to comment about the
Surry incident - Mike Vick's
dogpound. I agree with the
Senator from West Virginia.
Whether or not Vick is guilty
(don't know, can't say...yet)
it's damn sure that Byrd is awake.
Liddy hit the snooze alarm...
again and again and again.
6:27
Call me rabid, baby!
It makes me wanna write even
more!
Thanks for the inspiration, Wahneema!
6:37 and 6:47 are really amusing. as others have noted, better than daytime tv. i am not sure why mac likes to call people whose posts he disagrees with names of the duke 88, but it is really cute. and have members of the lacrosse team written any of you to suggest you keep up your diatribes against all and sundry?
i am writing with no caps since so many of you think no grammar and no correct spelling is the way to go. any problems with that?
I forgot to add a de rigueur politesse in my letter to Liddy
or her composer:
"With my warmest best wishes!
Mac"
BTW, 6:54:
See my July 19 2:26 post:
"KC interviews an NPR troll."
Describes you pretty well!
Atty: "Judge, he's hectoring the witness!"
Judge: "Hector! Stop!"
6:54
"many of you think no grammar and no correct spelling is the way to
go."
Funny: most of the regulars are extremely well-versed, and occasionally
make errors in grammar, punctuation etc. Most of us take
great care as we write our compositions. We also don't piss
about an occasional misspelled word.
But you, Wahneema (or reasonable facsimile!) Yup. I have a problem
with pretentious non-capitalization. It's a smug way of
saying that you're more important than the language that
you use!
An 88 for sure, for sure!
BTW: It's usually the trolls who write inarticulately, perhaps the drool interfering with the keypad.
I guess Mac was never socialized not to call people names when he disagreed with them. It might be offensive if your opinion mattered to me.
I'd rather be the NPR troll :) you call me than you in any case. One thought: you'll make a great character--the fat, old, white guy who sweats, drinks cheap beer, picks his nose and eats it, lost his job at the Mini-mart, so is addicted to Durham in Wonderland, etc.--on the straight to DVD film that could be made from this blog.
7:13,
Polanski is one of the few regulars who hasn't made errors that I've noticed. That's just fyi...
6:54
I have absolutely not diatribed against All or Sundry. Now, for the G88 et al., there has been a clear calling to accountability. Can't tell the difference? Oh, I'm sorry ....
7:15
"It might be offensive if your
opinion mattered to me."
(Thanks for caring enough to write,
y'all!)
"Fat, old white guy who sweats,
drinks cheap beer, picks his nose and eats it..."
(guess you were likewise not
"socialized not to call people names?")
Um...just wondering: what's "white"
got to do with it? (Are you AA,
or just a self-loathing white person?
There's a reason she's rated 96th out of 100 senators in effectiveness.
Did she hire Amanda Marcotte's counterpart across the aisle?
I've written to Senatore Gregg several times on the case and each time he responded with a letter indicating that he (or his staffer) was up-to-date on the case. He didn't take any action though he indicated that he was watching the case. How could you not know the facts of this case?
I wish that someone at one of Edward's town meetings, etc. would ask him about this case too so that he wouldn't be able to duck the issue.
That letter is a godsend for Dole's opponent in her next election.
FYI-- I am the DIW reader who received the non-reply from Liddy Dole. I had emailed her previously via her official website and never received an answer, so I was pleased to receive yesterday's response--until I read it. In my correspondence, I specifically pointed out that NC AG Cooper had announced there was no crime and that the three young men were publicly declared innocent. I also mentioned the fact that Nifong had been the subject of significant ethics complaints from the NC State Bar (at the time, he hadn't been disbarred). I asked Dole if she would urge the US AG to look into the possibility of civil rights violations because there were indications that Nifong and members of the Durham PD had conspired to violate the civil rights of the three former Duke students. In spite of all the groundwork I laid out for her, she still got it 100% wrong. And don't try to blame it on a staffer, because my correspondence had all the events, dates, and persons identified. My conclusion is that Dole is coasting because she thinks she's a shoo-in next election. I've got a news flash for Liddy.
KC> Congrats to you on the Fulbright.I can not wait to read the book.The reviews are from a cross section, which gives hope that the others who didn't see it the same way may be enlightened.Should be every high school parent's read in prep for looking at schools, and every entering freshman to college, sp. Duke
Hi, Mac,
Not name calling at all, was it? Just the character I visualize you playing. And, that character is white. Is there a problem with that? If you like, I can describe the character's sartorial excellence, too...!!!
Liddy Dole is a worthless twat. I pray that somebody has the guts to run against her, and beat her.
I think that the reason the G88 were so vocal on the LAX hoax is the same reason Dr. Johnson was so involved. They wanted to write the definitive book on the incident. Take a look at their books published, and this would have been God-sent.
(was going to post tomorrow under the G88 topic, but I'm traveling)
AJ
Liz, Lizabeth, Liddy, Libby, Elizabeth -- what difference does it make? It is her position that matters.
Is she a Communist?
I think it matters quite a lot. You treat someone with respect, including using her/his preferred name, you get treated with respect. So long as KC Johnson knows she prefers "Elizabeth" and doesn't change the heading of his post, how could he expect her to deal with him? He's being rude.
Uh oh,
This is going to be quite the calamity for you talk radio sheep. On one hand you're laughably brainwashed to support all things Republican.... yet on the other hand you have someone like Elizabeth Dole humiliating herself with her ignorance.
Yikes! What to do... what to do...
If only Limbaugh or O'Reilly could provide the answer? I'm guessing something about the "liberal media" being at fault?
Good day sheep.
8:46, I think that Elizabeth Dole will probably turn out to be a closet Democrat, don't you? Perhaps that's what Rush will tell the bah-bahs when he comes down...
I am the person who posted the Elizabeth Dole letter on Liestoppers unless there are multiple persons who have also received this letter. I wrote Dole prior to the Dec. 15 hearing or close to the time that Congressman Jones had requested the DOJ to investigate and ask that she join Jones in that request. I am a NC resident and a Republican and a campaign contributor to Dole's election to the US Senate. I did not receive a reply to my letter until the letter from Dole arrived after the exoneration of Reade, Collin and Dave. I was stunned that she would write a letter to someone who had requested her help re the case as though I knew nothing of the events or facts of the case. Yes, Dole's staff does not appear to be competent in that I received yet another letter this week addressing my interest in animal rights legislation. I have never had any interest in such legislation nor have I ever written Dole about such legislation. Someone in this State needs to seriously challenge this woman who appears to me at least to be out of touch either with her staff or her constituents.
7:58
Bravo for being pro-active! If I were you, I'd send a new letter with a copy of the original & the response, with a cc: to the other governmental representatives and various news outlets in NC. Also, cc: her likely political opponents. If she doesn't pick up the ball, maybe one of them will.
Yes, make it a jump ball!
I bet that would get a proper response.
Dear 8:46,
We are not all Republicans who post, Dr. Johnson is a self-proclaimed Democrat. Even if we are, we are holding our elected representatives accountable. I'm not sure how that makes us sheep.
Personal attacks and name calling make you better, how?
9:20,
No, you are not "holding [y]our elected officials accountable." You're going on and on and on and on about one issue.
BAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
For the intellectual giant @ 8:46 (and if not the same person, the one @ 9:29)
Justice. Truth. Honor. Character. Innocent until proven guilty.
When were those particular concepts ceded to the Republican Party by the Democrats? If you took the time to study KC's work and this blog, you might find that an investigation of these concepts, as they relate to our legal system, underlie much of the discussion.
And they, in my opionion, are not in the care of any single political party. I do, however, observe that one party (at least) has taken its liberties in re-defining some of these concepts to be...well..."more inclusive"...
Like your intellectual kin who made statements such as "“people want to support her because, you know, she’s a black female and they want to see justice done . . . Nobody knows for a fact if she’s telling the truth or if she’s lying, but either way, people are like, we want to support her regardless of if she’s telling the truth or not.”
(taken from "NPR: Our Side Is the Right Side," by KC Johnson, July 2007).
That is a statement from a group recognized as the solid base of the Democratic Party. And the list of similar quotes is pretty darn long.
By the way, was/is Nifong a Democrat?
Has there been any sign yet this morning anywhere in the media that Dole or her people have responded, or attempted to clarify, her position on the embarrassing letter, or the Duke lax case in general?
9:32 Two different people. And, I'm an intellectual giant in comparison to you. But then, so is my dog.
I assume you meant the Republican party has redefined principles to become "more inclusive." Innocent even when proven guilty if your Dickie's lackey, Scooter. Character and truth? Thy name is Tricky Dicky Nixon and Cheney. Truth? War in Iraq? Truth? Yes, redefined. You are correct.
"No, you are not "holding [y]our elected officials accountable." You're going on and on and on and on about one issue."
Now here this. The commentator at 9:29 wants everyone to quit reading single-issue blogs.
As for Dole, I have to say this is a minor case (maybe this makes me a sheep, ok). We've heard enough people saying and doing irresponsible things to get all that worked up over a form letter sent by a staffer.
By all means, someone should ask her about this in person (if possible) and she's got to get more on the ball with her correspondence staff, especially about events in her state. But don't put her in the Group of 88 yet.
Poor Elizabeth. I voted for her, and probably will again, but dang, girl, get a freakin' clue. She might be destined to become Silky Pony.2.
Hmmm... must have been a really slow news day to be going after Senator Dole.
Please, will Senator Dole comment?
9:50 Thank you for you most considerate and thoughtful reply, but....
"It depends upon what the definition of the word "is" is."
And please notice --- nowhere did I state a political affiliation.
Also, please note that I said "And they, in my opionion, are not in the care of any single political party. I do, however, observe that one party (at least) has taken its liberties in re-defining some of these concepts to be ...well..."more inclusive"..."
Again, I made no reference to a particlar party and further the qualifying parenthetical clause "(at least)" implies the notion that more than one party was being identified.
Finally, how many in your family have ever fought and died in any war the country has ever had? I'm curious, because you seem all too willing to suspend disbelief on the media's interpretation of the war in Iraq. Now, a member of my family (bother-in-law USAF colonel)just got back from a tour in Iraq (for which he volunteered). Based on some of his first hand observations (re: the sectarian violence), I'm not so sure that you or others in the United States are getting an accurate picture of the truth.
To quote Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men": "You can't handle the truth."
And learn not to jump to so many self-serving conclusions.
To Anon @ 9:05
It looks like we both got a reply that was standard boilerplate. Except politicians usually make some attempt to make the boilerplate reflect a smidgen of reality. I, too, voted for Liddy Dole when she ran for her first term only because Erskine Bowles is such a twit. I find now that my vote was wasted and we ended up with another twit regardless. Iamy send a response to Dole's office to see if she'd like to "clarify" her response. Heh heh heh.
Oh...and 9:50...
please say "hi" to your dog for me and tell him I send my best. I'm sure he is a great conversationalist.
Don't entirely blame the Dole staffer although it's possible there's culpability. I had many occasions to meet Mrs. Dole in New Hampshire on both her and her husband's Presidential campaigns.
He was a great Vice Presidential candidate when he ran with Ford, but not a very good Presdential candidate. Mrs. Dole is a joke who would not be a US Senator were it not for her famous husband .....same goes for Mrs. Clinton. Unfortunately, they both hold high offices on account of their respective marriages and the country is suffering as a result.
The most egregious civil rights abuse case in our generation and she has no role!
kayman007
"I think it matters quite a lot. You treat someone with respect, including using her/his preferred name, you get treated with respect."
Maybe someone should tell Bush and other Republicans that they might get more respect from a Democratic-controlled Congress if they would stop using the quasi-slur "Democrat Party" instead of "Democratic Pary."
Ken Duke
er, Democratic ParTy.
Ken
Ken
You said it right the first time,
except it should have read
"parry."
Neither party can do anything more than parry and feint.
Neither one can govern, as is obvious from this case, brought
down to the state level.
Inman
I left a post for you at Hochberg Raucous Party thread @ 12:52am, 7/20.
Appreciate a response (prefer post response on this thread).
Polanski
"Elizabeth Dole has long asked the press to quit referring to her as "Liddy", a hated childhood nickname. She also dislikes Libby.She has asked everyone to call her Elizabeth. Since she is a worthless politician ---- good day, Liddy!"
How about calling her "Scooter", the invisible woman?
Why ah can't get over all the hate for Miss Liddy . . . ah am sure Miss Liddy knows where Durham is, but ah don't think she knows where the thermometer has been put . . . er, placed.
I don't think KC is helping either.
Plus, he is screwed if and when something from his past comes out. When you act like he has to so many people -- many not because they did something, but simply because they didn't get involved in a criminal case -- you better have a spotless background!
10:28,
Starting with the American Revolution, of course. Any more questions on that front?
I've had students who've fought in Iraq, a war I consider a travesty. (Do you feel safer? Not hardly.) Do I think lies have been told about it by the media? Yes, I think the media was all too credulous about what the Bushies had to say. And, this isn't just a left issue: there are plenty of people with right-wing politics who oppose this expensive, needless war.
Bill O'Reilly syndrome. Some professor/blogger thinks he is ENTITLED to have people speak to him upon his demand.
History professors do not have subpoena power. Hey prof, got an extra copy of this semester's syllabus?
News flash: you made a celeb out of yourself on the backs of these 3 men, and now you are demanding people speak with you, and something must be amiss when they ignore a Brooklyn College professor who is clearly out to get people.
Plus, perhaps there are bigger issues out there for Senators to be dealing with? Just a though, KC!
1:09
You've got that right. Don't any of those who post here wonder why his department didn't want to tenure him even though he'd published?
The tenure thing has been blamed by Mr. Johnson on liberal bias.
Now the Iraq War is being blamed on the press, and war critics, which inevitably will result in blaming the Iraq fiasco on liberalism in general (which happened with Viet Nam as well).
Poor approval ratings are blamed on the liberal media.
Liberal this, liberal that. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Its the whole conservative blame-shifting thing.
They don't have the balls to tell themselves they've failed at something, it always has to be some sort of liberal conspiracy.
If the liberals are so good at conspiracy, do they also run the CIA?!!!
So, KC is a conservative democrat and liberal democrats in his department ganged up on him? Big bad liberals! Naughty, naughty. You gotta play nice with others. Even if KC doesn't.
That excuse is perfect for KC... not only does it explain away an otherwise-embarassing fact about his career, it also makes the liberals professors look extra whacky, because he not only wasn't a Republican, he was a Democrat, but just a 'lil more moderate.
I smell a rat.
1:12
Since you ask and answer your own questions, I'll just leave it at that. Any comments from your dog?
kc johnson is brilliant! bet he's good in bed!
1:20
I agree that people shouldn't play the blame game, but that still doesn't take away the fact that the Far Left and those like the Faculty88 are worthless pieces of shit in our society. Don't try to cover for that.
Yes, I can agree with you that the G88 are pieces of shit. Although I strongly disagree with Bill O'Reillys bullshit where he runs around chasing people down who won't talk to him, as if he is entitled to having everyone he wants on his show -- it was indeed funny to see that whacked-out professor at his home, looking all smoked-up.
Regardless, what would that piece of garbage O'Reilly do if you walked up to his house and said "Bill O'Reilly, why do you accuse American GI's in World War II of committing atrocities at Malmedy, where it was they who were massacred"... he'd have you arrested or something.
That little squeeky punk-producer of O'Reilly's ever showed up at my house, I'd beat his ass for stepping on my property, and call the cops for a citizens' trespassing arrest.
1:54, I wonder what you do that makes you so able to judge what is valuable or not to "our" society? I myself prefer the far left to anything right of center. Gonna take me out and shoot me?!!!
far left and far right are useless... most people make up their own minds and are properly lumped into the broader "center", which in reality includes those slightly to the left and slightly to the right.
For whatever reason, this blog, and if it is any indication, the vast majority of people who care deeply about this one particular case, seem to be far-right idealogues who care -- not for the boys -- but because the case purports to represent something they think they can attacks liberals for, for the rest of time.
Its really a non-event, except to those boys and their families, and Duke University and its alumns. Sure, it was a sexy news story (it involved race, allegations of rape, privilege vs. underclass, etc.), but that has really died down.
There are more important things out there, especially now that things in the Duke matter are winding down. But the race-baiters will continue to use this as examples of why blacks and liberals are bad.
1:13 makes a damn good point re the professor "making a celebrity out of himself on the backs of the 3 men"
Well done. Yes, Chip, our society has been overrun with mediocrities in search of fame. The list includes:
Curtis Sliwa and Ron Kuby
Norman Siegel
Oprah Winfrey
Spike Lee
Al Sharpton
You get the picture? The professor's so-called celebrity has shown a light on the utter ugliness of this entire affair.
You have a problem with that?
Polanski
2:05
Are you an alcoholic, or are you just plain stupid?
Polanski
Is democrat a communist?
Boy, the trolls are chirping today!
Here 'em?
They show up, once in awhile,
and they never offer anything substantive,
nor particularly inventive, nor
anything that is particularly
enlightening.
They always claim
that the subject they attack is a name-caller,
or they make comments like:
"you're so cute..."
(WTF does "cute" come into this?)
Most of 'em are far left, some are far right -
(and most of 'em, because of
their lack of substance, could
be said to be "substance-abusers.")
No matter what is said, they never
actually address the issue-at-hand,
or engage in legitimate debate:
instead, they show-up-and-throw-up.
By definition, posters who argue the merit of a point
are NOT trolls, no matter whether
you agree with them or not.
Agreement is not neccessary.
Kayman007 10:34 makes good points,
even though I don't agree with everything he's written
(I do blame Dole's staffers, and Dole herself) He/she makes points
pertinent to the discussion.
Sure wish KC would require registration, to weed out the
silly sophistry. (Doubtless that
lots of trolls would go back to
the swamp to mate or do whatever
they do in their lives.)
Attacks on the moderator and/or
regular posters indicates that the
mark has been hit, and someone
wishes it to stop!
On that note, KC, I hope you'll
continue to post, continue to
probe, continue to expose:
you're performing a fine civic duty.
2:05 has got it just about right. Polanski, you're way off on this one. Don't you wonder just a little about KC's tenure issue...given all that you & others have said about tenure on this site?
8:46
Get back under the bridge........
The space under the bridge must be beyond capacity on this post. Way too many trolls out there with no clue.
O'Reilly? Where did that one come from?
When you have nothing valid to say, just go on the attack. It doesn't have to be relevant, or even coherent, just attack. And you have.
Unfortunately, the dog is smarter than you are. Woof, woof.
Yes, 3:00, I despise tenure.
I could not care less about Johnson's tenure problems. I certainly wouldn't want to work with him, and vice versa. So what?
He's doing a good job with this blog. I just wish he'd concentrate on more important issues--eg, AG Cooper's failure to indict Mangum. I think that sends a dangerous message to blacks and women:
Yes, sweetheart, we understand. You were having a bad day. We promise not to bother you. Go back to your chilluns and whoring.
P
To 3:26
I love it when you bend genders. I didn't know you were so broad minded.
KC goes after people who don't want to talk to him. And why would they? It's not really his business what they think.
My dog's dog is smarter than you 3:16 and it's inanimate. And, tenured, Polanski.
I think the trolls are clueful and the rest of you...NOT
4:00
1st off, there is no poster at 3:16.
2d, Are you saying your dog is dead? Because that's what it would be if it were "inaminate."
Are you an affirmative action case?
No child left behind only institutionalized the dumbing down we are seeing today.
Jul 20, 2007 3:10:00 AM
Having kids in school now, school is *much* tougher (as in more academic, more drilling etc) than it was say 30 years ago. Much more.
But, I don't know if it's good. See, say in the Chinese educational system (which isn't very good IMHO), there is a very clear structure in what is learned. If you take algebra and get an A, that means you know "X", precisely. And so on with every other subject. Moreover, A means pretty much 100% because they teach what can be learned and you can learn it.
Thus, in Bejing U, you already know exactly what say, a good mechanical engineer knows. At Stanford U, you have very little idea what a good mechanical engineer knows -- there's tons of variation, followings and avoidance according to individual interests.
Which system sounds more like that of a free, entrepreneurial society?
I think ours.
4:35, No, I'm a polanski clone. And, no, doofus, inanimate isn't dead. It has never lived...
9:50 and then 1:12
I've been chewing on your statements this afternoon. And I think you are NOT a patriot. The wrong-headed opinions of hemorrhoid-free individuals such as you (read "Perfect Assholes") promote and abet the enemies of this country. Enemies that are now practicing a singularly assymetric war.
The concepts of "treason" and "sedition" come to mind. But not that I am accusing you of such heinous crimes...simply that someone such as you who takes their opinions to extreme should, in fact, be held accountable under those concepts. Put that in your Harry Reid pipe and smoke it.
So...you think highly of yourself. Are you a member of the Sons of the Revolution or even its less desirable alternative the Sons of the American Revolution? I can tell you the difference, if need be.
Perhaps you'd like to know about the Society of the Sons of Cololnial Wars or the Society of the Descendants of Washington's Army at Valley Forge. Or the Society of the Cincinnati. Can you tell me about that one, buckshot?
In what other wars do you claim a family member fought or died? The War of 1812, the War with Mexico, the War to Eradicate Persons Non-Southern With Massive Shoulder Chips, the War with Spain, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Afganistan, Iraq.....
Oh and so there is no uncertainty...you may think that any or all of these wars should not have been fought, but your very right and freedom to post your opinion on this blog is guaranted under the laws of a nation (evolving such as they are) that was purchased with the blood of the sons and daughters of this country who died to provide you and your seed (if any) this right.
So....which wars? I'm curious.
What are your bona fides? Yes, I'd like to know because you are now way over your head. WAY OVER YOUR HEAD. A head that needs serious retraining. Oh and remember Homeland Security is watching.
Oh, and again, tell that brilliant dog of yours hello.
Polanski @ 2:17...
Wait I sec...
I resemble that remark....
I
5:18
Harvard College Laws of 1700
(Source: Cotton Mather, Magnalia Christi Americana,Volume II)
STATUTES, LAWS AND PRIVILEGES, APPROVED AND SANCTIONED BY THE PRESIDENT AND FELLOWS OF HARVARD COLLEGE AT CAMBRIDGE IN NEW ENGLAND: TO WHICH BOTH SCHOLARS AND STUDENTS, CANDIDATES FOR ADMISSION AS WELL AS THOSE ADMITTED, ARE REQUIRED TO CONFORM, FOR THE PROMOTION OF LEARNING AND GOOD MORALS.
1. Everyone competent to read Cicero or any other classic author of that kind extemporaneously, and also to speak and write Latin prose and verse with tolerable skill and without assistance, and of declining the Greek nouns and verbs, may expect to be admitted to the College: if deficient in any of these qualifications, he cannot under any circumstances be admitted.
::::
So you really think college is tougher now? There were also all kinds of moral clauses. No, if you got into college back then you really had prepared to learn. No enrichment courses, no tutors, no just getting by.
6:41 (Inman?)
I'm not sure the fact that members of my family (direct lineage?) have fought in wars on US soil for the US since the Revolutionary War has anything to do with my right to have opinions. Be aware that in my family only some of the women pay much attention to geneology and I don't have the published records on hand, but here goes:
My mother's memberships included, but I don't think were limited to, the DAR (post-straightening out what many considered racist politics), Magna Charta society, Colonial Dames of the 18th (17th?) century...each with a different ancestor.
Houses of Burgess members in Georgia and Virginia at least. I know this from looking it up with a child for a school project.
Dead in wars? Directly? Dunno who if anyone among my ancestors had that kind of bad luck, but in addition to the Revolutionary War, Civil (both sides, I believe), and WW I & II to my knowledge. The smaller ones? Perhaps. I also don't know who, if anyone, attended the Citadel or VMI. I'm just not that interested.
So, maybe, I'm not that deep over my head. You trying to out "American" me? Welcome to it.
Don't you have more important things to do with your life?
PS, Radical Right Winger,
If Homeland Security is watching me, we're really not safe.
I don't think those who died in earlier wars did so to prevent me from holding opinions, but to prevent people like you from preventing the same.
And, yes, I know about the Society of Cincinnati or whatever because I saw a plaque to it one time in France.
Any more questions, he-who-does-not-tolerate dissent?
5:18
& 5:22
1)the Society of the Cincinnati is not domciled in France.
2) I'd be willing to bet that the genealogical research you did would not stand the scrutiny of any reputable registrar.
3) Given 2, you probably think you are a descendant of old King Cole, too.
And the important point of this, just to point out the nuance that you may have missed:
The extent to which one holds dear the values of the United States is directly related to the extent that one is vested in the nation's history. Inner-city, impoverished black kids who don't even know their father likely couldn't care less about the consitution or the legal system. Newly arrived Hispanics, however well intentioned likely see Thanksgiving as a day on which they can't earn money.
Perspective is important in viewing the problems and oppotunities of this country.
oh and 5:18 and 5:22
you are incredibly shallow.
I forgot to add -- I don't think there is a "Magna Carta Society" -- if I remember MY history, the Baron de Monte Cuto (forebear of the Peter Montegue line in Virginia) was a baron in arms to secure the Magna Carta --- and the modern society is called "The Barons of Runneymede."
Finally, ever hear of my 10th great grandfather, William Bradford, or how about my 3rd cousin nine generations removed, Thomas Jefferson; or how about the Adams (John and John Quincy); does the name Grover Cleaveland ring a bell? You know any founders of Yale College (Abraham Piersey)? How about a Speaker of the Virginia House of Burgesses (Henry Soane)?Or perhaps my 9th Great Grand Uncle, one of 5 Captains with John Smith and one of the first Englishmen to be wounded at Jamestowne (Gabriel Archer)? Or how about cousins William Randolph and Mary Isham of Turkey Island (hence, Robert E. Lee & others)?
Many others as well.
You make assertions but provide no evidence.
My opinion (to which we both agree I am entitled): I think you are a pathetic wanna-be imposter.
You've just made me sick to my stomach, because I'm afraid I may be distantly related to you. But, I suppose everyone in Virginia in the seventeenth century intermarried.
TO BE CLEAR, as I thought I was initially: No, I didn't do any geneological study--I simply told you those things I remembered off the top of my head. I think there is, in fact, some sort of Magna Charta Society; I noticed you didn't dump on the other two I mentioned.
I could cite a number of famous people to whom I am distantly related, but why would I want to? You might figure out my name. A scary thought, indeed.
So, no, having relatives who fought and/or died for the US and/or the colonies, does not make me support wars I think are wrong. Why would it?
Lastly: you're reading too fast or understandly to slow...I never said your Society of Cincinnati was in Paris. I simply said I saw a plaque to it there. That's how I knew it existed, ok? Cool your jets, big guy.
You're probably right cousin. There's a saying that every "true" Virginian is related to every other one.
Just goes to show that there is no "political ideology" gene.
And I'll cool my jets.
But back to a more formal and gracious discourse. I believe that alot of very well-intended and learned people share your view that the war in Iraq is wrong. I also believe that alot of very well-intended and learned people disagree with your view and believe that the war in Iraq is good policy.
I frankly think there are positive arguments on each side. But I have difficulty with the notion that the number of deaths (3,000 - plus or minus) should be a litmus test for determining US foreign policy. And it seems to me that most arguments for "bringing the troops home" involve a finger pointed at that number. If Abraham Lincoln had used the number of deaths in making his decisions, about 1 hour of the Battle of Cold Harbor would have been sufficient for him to call a truce, leaving slavery a fact, at least until some other states rights issue brought it up again. Same with about any other battle of the "Civil" War.
A more considered conversation regarding the war, given that we are there, is "How can the US morally and ethically withdraw, if a decision is made to do so?" For the ethnic and sectarian violence makes me shudder -- and you'll never hear about it in the mainstream media because of the bruality.
-- Electric drills being used to drill through the skull and into a person's brain.
-- Selective amputation of body parts, ...noses, breasts, penises, testicals, fingers, toes, etc. ... with the person left alive to endure.
These are just some of the brutal iraqi-on-iraqi things about which my USAF brother-in-law spoke, with first hand knowledge.
So, I respectfully ask that you consider the morality of arbitrarily withdrawing our troops and the likely consequences to many innocent people.
12:41,
I am horrified by the possibility of quick troop withdrawal because it would create chaos. So, I agree with you absolutely! And, I don't know the solution.
I just wish we hadn't gone in.
1:07
Fair enough.
It's pretty clear to me what happened was the Dole contingent prepared a form letter some time between March and June of 2006 ... and never changed it. Staffers were given the directive to send the form letter in response to any letter that mentions the words "Duke" and "Lacrosse." I doubt anyone even really read the letter.
Ooops! Yeah Senator Dole looks like a big fool.
Ultimately, it just shows she's not going to concern herself with the case. She doesn't really care that much ... not even enough to tell her staffers to make sure they update the form letter every once and a while.
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