Wednesday, January 10, 2007

Holloway Leaves CCI

Karla Holloway has resigned her position as race subgroup chair of the Campus Culture Initiative, to protest President Brodhead’s decision to lift the suspensions of Reade Seligmann and Collin Finnerty. “The decision by the university to readmit the students, especially just before a critical judicial decision on the case, is a clear use of corporate power, and a breach, I think, of ethical citizenship,” said she. “I could no longer work in good faith with this breach of common trust.”

Holloway had not always been so concerned with the significance of “judicial decision[s] on the case.” This summer, she wrote that “justice inevitably has an attendant social construction. And this parallelism means that despite what may be our desire, the seriousness of the matter cannot be finally or fully adjudicated in the courts.” Therefore, since the presumption of innocence “is neither the critical social indicator of the event, nor the final measure of its cultural facts,” judgments about the case “cannot be left to the courtroom.”

Holloway’s departure from the CCI is a welcome development. Holloway’s comments over the last nine months had shown little or no respect for a wide variety of groups on campus, and so her occupying such a prominent place with the CCI seemed a basic contradiction in its mission.

  • Male athletes? “The ‘culture’ of sports seems for some a reasonable displacement for the cultures of moral conduct, ethical citizenship and personal integrity,” reinforcing “exactly those behaviors of entitlement which have been and can be so abusive to women and girls and those ‘othered’ by their sports’ history of membership.”
  • Those who defended the players targeted by Nifong? They believed that “white innocence means black guilt. Men’s innocence means women’s guilt.”
  • Women’s lacrosse players who had worn armbands expressing sympathy with Seligmann, Finnerty, and Dave Evans? She denounced their “team-inspired and morally slender protestations of loyalty that brought the ethic from the field of play onto the field of legal and cultural and gendered battle as well.”

The sympathetic article announcing Holloway’s resignation from the CCI came in a publication called Diverse Online. Here’s how its author, Christina Asquith, described the scene last spring. “Initially, many at Duke supported the dancer. Students held candlelight vigils on campus and 88 professors, now known as the ‘Group of 88’ signed an advertisement in the student newspaper calling for the administration to take a stronger stand against the players.”

Apparently Asquith didn’t receive the memo on the new party line regarding the Group of 88’s intentions.

241 comments:

1 – 200 of 241   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Holloway lobbed criticism at the administration for not "backing" her. Is the irony lost on her?

Anonymous said...

heh from the article:

Since that time, though, the prosecutor’s case has all but fallen apart, and public opinion has swung drastically in defense of the lacrosse players. Professors like Holloway — who had condemned the players — are now facing criticism for prematurely assuming the players’ guilt and, ironically, making racist charges against the White players.

In her resignation letter, Holloway criticized the Duke administration for not coming to her defense

Ironically is the correct word

Don't let that door hit you in the ass on your way out honey.

Anonymous said...

That's a real shame.
Paul

Anonymous said...

Halloway's arrogance knows no bounds. How can she resign in protest of the readmission of the students, when it has yet to be shown they did anything wrong? I'm sure she has read about a little event that happened in the town of Salem once... Seriously, this is a witchhunt. I wonder when they'll ask the boys to submit to being dunked in the local lake to see if they'll drown or not...

Anonymous said...

Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

Karma's a bitch, and so is Halloway

bill anderson said...

Karla Holloway truly is pathetic. Here is someone who is very well paid and yet, as I have posted on the Liestoppers' board, is angry, bitter, and hateful toward her employer and toward the people who pay her six-figure salary. In fact, that is Holloway's job: to be PROFESSIONALLY bitter, angry, and hateful.

GPrestonian said...

Right on top of thing I see, KC! ;>)

I was looking for some Baldwin items since his letter to the Chrincle was partially quoted in the Asquith article:

Baldwin's letter - The administration's mismanagement of lacrosse (remember, Baldwin was taken to task for using the phrase 'tarred & feathered', and subsequently retracted that part)

I'm surprised that Holloway didn't complain about the niggardly support she received in the wake of Baldwin's letter. ;>)

KC's take on Baldwin - Steven Baldwin Speaks Out and Baldwin's Significance

KC's take on Holloway - Women's Studies Does Lacrosse

Anonymous said...

Poor Ms. Holloway and her feelings. After all, she just wanted 3 "rich white boys" thrown in prison for 25 years. Hell, she didn't want to wait for or trust the outcome of the trial. Can she be fired based on her statements and writings?

“We must work together to restore the fabric of mutual respect,” said Duke president Brodhead in a recent letter addressed to the Duke community. “One of the things I have most regretted is the way students and faculty have felt themselves disparaged and their views caricatured in ongoing debates.”

Assistant Village Idiot said...

"justice inevitably has an attendant social construction..." Translation: never let the facts get in the way of a good story, a law of entertainment that every BS artist knows.

It's not a particularly good academic rule, however.

Anonymous said...

She obviously thinks the story is about her.

The blogs aren't against HER. They're against anyone and everyone who would dare to pile on to their own students at the time when they're most the most vulnerable.

These blogs are against absolute jerks who apparently are prejudiced against their own students.

I'm a little surprised at some of these underqualified people who managed to get jobs at Duke.. Are there really so few people looking for work as a professor?

I don't know about Holloway's accomplishments, but Kim Curtis has barely made a mark in her field.

Anonymous said...

It seems everyone has forgotten Holloway never wanted to be on the CCI to begin with. If you recall she protested the administrative burden the position added to her schedule.

By resigning the CCI, she avoids future criticism, reinforces her intolerant agenda and lightens her load. Quite a trifecta!

Anonymous said...

Don't go away mad Karla. Just GO AWAY!

QuadDog

Diesel said...

Maybe now she has more time on her hands--which was one of her complaints about being on the Duke subcommittees--Holloway could take a course in remedial English. This would enable her to communicate better with the rest of us.
Alternatively, if she still can't afford the time, perhaps she could pick up a few tips by obbserving how Kristin Butler writes in the Duke Chronicle.

Anonymous said...

group 88 and holloway picked the wrong side to pursue their idealistic and social agenda... I understand that they were mislead by nifong but their stubborness is frustrating.

duke09parent said...

Maybe the CCI can now be taken seriously. I suspect that Brodhead put Wood and Holloway on these committees so they wouldn't stand outside that process and take potshots at it. Coopting the fringes by making them participate in the process sometimes makes them more responsible. Wasn't Wood on the Coleman Committee and dissented from its findings? That fact alone was a good demonstration that he was a lonely critice of the team members' character.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad someone translated "attendant social construction." I didn't know what the hell she meant, and assumed she didn't really want me to.

Whenever I see the word "social" used as an adjective in any context other than a small, apolitical, group event, I generally translate it: "as I define it or invent it"

Anonymous said...

Seems like there should be a parade or something. Come on Karla, show some real outrage and resign your tenured position at Duke. How can you continued to be affiliated with such an imperialistist and quite thoroughly racist organization? Do the only thing a high minded and upstanding person such as yourself can possible do, sever all ties to show that, with you, priciples mean more than an undeserved six figure slary.

Anonymous said...

Nice work KC to show "Prof" Hollow-way's selfish agenda yet again.

GPrestonian said...

10:26am Anon:

"group 88 and holloway picked the wrong side to pursue their idealistic and social agenda..."

I've been known to put it less delicately as 'they hitched their whorsecart to the wrong whorsesss'. ;>)

RogerA said...

Not having a hell of a lot of interest in either facutly generally or Duke particularly, I am reminded of George Orwell's aphorism (I think) that the statement was so absurd that only an academic could believe it.

What a bunch of ignorant slimeballs at Duke--a monument to PC stupidity and arrogance.

Great job, BTW, on continuing to puncture their self absorbed balloon.

Jay said...

Karla Holloway's bitter brand of racism would not be tolerated in any setting outside of academia-which, of course says as much about present-day academia as it does about Holloway. Maybe she'd like to join Houston Baker at Vanderbilt? Unfortunately, Vanderbilt would probably be glad to have her, there being a national competition among elite universities to hire such creeps. Maybe the only good thing to come out of the Duke lacrosse travesty is the spotlight it has put on people like Holloway and Houston-and Brodhead too, the cowardly enabler. Light can have a cleansing effect.

Anonymous said...

Was Holloway's son a convicted rapist? If so she should have more empathy for the indicted students of her university, and the families of the 3 boys.

GPrestonian said...

Here's another gem by KC on The Travails of Karla Holloway

Anonymous said...

Buh bye.

-Esquire-
-Maryland-

Anonymous said...

Those damn blog hooligans are at it again. Too bad.

Anonymous said...

John LeCarre's Karla was hardly more devious though, I must add, much more intelligent.

Anonymous said...

And, as Holloway posted in her summer article which you have quoted KC, she protests and whines about her having to head the CCI race committee. Looks like she was looking for a convenient way out all along. This became an easy scapegoat.

Anonymous said...

Re 10:24 AM
"She obviously thinks the story is about her."

This 'story' is about 3 men being railroaded into prison for 25+ years, and it is STILL IN PROGRESS!

Good grief!

WesternBlot said...

Is that true about her son? Or is someone just trolling?

Anonymous said...

Diesel said "Maybe now she has more time on her hands--which was one of her complaints about being on the Duke subcommittees--Holloway could take a course in remedial English. This would enable her to communicate better with the rest of us."

If you take the time to translate Holloway's writing into plain English, I think you will find that her thoughts are either trite or absurd. The gobblegook is intended to make others think she is saying something profound

WesternBlot said...

Now that she has left who could possibly replace her???

KC Johnson said...

To the 11.06:

It is true about her son.

Anonymous said...

Is that true about her son? Or is someone just trolling?

It is true.

http://tinyurl.com/ya86fc

Anonymous said...

Poor Karla. She now thinks her employer is corrupt.

Chicago said...

Wow, how many different ways can it be made obvious that Holloway is nothing but a blantant racist herself. Holloway and Nifong deserve each other.

WesternBlot said...

"Holloway tells of her son, whom she and her husband adopted at age 4 after the boy had been abused and shuffled between foster homes. he was a polite, thoughtful and compassionate child, but his rage stayed buried deep inside until mental illness overtook him.

The beloved boy became a violent man who embarked on a reign of terror, committing horrific acts. Imprisoned for rape and accused of murder, he died while trying to escape from prison."

I guess you can't hide on the internet. Certainly someone with such an experience would be expected to have a more sympathetic response.

Anonymous said...

Do you think she could have been asked to resign the position?

bill anderson said...

From what I understand, the Holloways did what they could for their son, and I don't think we can "blame" her for what happened. Adopting older kids -- and age 4 is older in the adoption world -- does entail risks.

My wife and I adopted three children, a girl from Guatemala that we got when she was 7-1/2 months old, and two boys from Ethiopia, ages 5 and 6. As one might expect, the boys both had suffered abuse and malnutrition and one had severe attachment disorder problems. (We spent thousands of dollars on therapy and the like for him -- with good results, thank goodness.)

The other boy suffers from Dislexia, and many things are a struggle to him. However, both boys also are wonderful sons and they are turning out to be fine young men. The girl also is doing well.

I say this because in adoption of older children, one does not know what is going to happen. I do know that the pressures on our family were horrific, and they nearly blew the whole family apart. That is why I do have sympathy towards the Holloways and do not write about the fate of their son.

That being said, one would think such an experience would make Karla Holloway more reflective, but she seems to be an extremely bitter and angry person. I have no use for her as scholar precisely because her "scholarship" is based upon her anger and bitterness.

M. Simon said...

I am only part way through the thread and I blame the commenters.

I am having trouble stopping the laughing.

Keep up the good work people.

Anonymous said...

"Justice inevitably has an attendant social construction. And this parallelism means that despite what may be our desire, the seriousness of the matter cannot be finally or fully adjudicated in the courts."

read as: "We don't have to follow your 'laws'. We have a parallel system that we might want to use instead."

Anonymous said...

I am thinking maybe, since Brodhead was putting all his eggs in the CCI basket in his letter, that that essentailly Holloway was pushed off the Committee. With her gone it will have more credibility.

She gets to make it look like resigning was her own plan. And in doing so she wants to issue the most flamboyant, over the top statement she can so to gain icon status for a certain segment.

Does that make her statement seem rational?

Anonymous said...

That this appeared in Diverse is significant. I used to teach at an HBCU. We got Diverse in our mailboxes each month. It is the main HBCU (Historically Black College or University) news magazine. This is not an outfit predisposed to dislike Holloway.

Jhn1 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
M. Simon said...

WesternBlot,

Abused kids often do bad things when they grow up. Fact of life.

I blame the abusers more than the kid. However, stuff like this often goes back generations.

This kind of crap is a tradgedy for all involved.

We need to do more about child abuse in this country. The fact that Karla even tried even if very imperfectly is a point in her favor.

PTSD and the Endocannabinoid System

Click the link on CB1. It is an eye opener.

Need another one? This will break your heart:

Heroin

rhamning said...

The language Dr. Holloway used in her resignation statement is quite serious and damning in context. I might recommend to her that she take a step that would match the seriousness of her words with her actions. That is, I think it would be much more appropriate and certainly more in keeping with her obvious moral courage and ethical integrity to resign from her position as Professor of English (assuming this Dr. Holloway and that Dr. Holloway are one in the same person). Now, THAT would make a statement that I could appreciate.

Anonymous said...

What a nut!!!!

Anonymous said...

I am 1 of those "racists" to which Brodhead was referring when he came to the 88's defense.

Yes, I made the accusation that the Holloways of the world have no business teaching al an elite institution. I compared H's 6-figure paycheck to a welfare check.

Pretend Brodhead is hooked up to a sophisticated polygraph.

Mr B, if all the professors at Duke shared H's cognitive deficiencies, what would Duke's national rank be?

Mr B, isn't it true that your academic welfare class at Duke lowers Duke's reputation?

Given the previous 2 questions, Mr B, wouldn't you describe the Hs at Duke as parasites?

Anonymous said...

Ms. Holloway, please feel free to follow this link to your future pot of gold...
jobs@vanderbilt.edu

Anonymous said...

re 12:03

Source: American Heritage College Dictionary:

"parasite": An organism that grows, feeds, and lives on or in another organism to whose survival it contributes nothing.

Or less than nothing.

WesternBlot said...

m.simon
I agree with your comments.

Of course we have Dr. Holloway's description of the events. I wonder how true they really are considering her behavior in the LAX matter.

What has she done in the current mess such that we should take her statements on these past events at face value.

Anonymous said...

10:00 AM,

I uunderstand your point about a witch hunt, but the Salem trials are not a good analogy. In the Salem cases, there was considerable evidence of witchcraft: admissions of guilt that were not coerced (delusional or pathetic, maybe, but not coerced), for example. In the case of the lacrosse players, there is no credible evidence of guilt (and maybe no evidence at all if CGM has recanted).

This is much worse than a witch hunt. This is a case where the Holloways of the world know, or should know, to a reasonable certainty that the players are not guilty of the crimes for which they are charged, but the Holloways want the players pursued because of some so-called "greater" agenda. I doubt that any one in Salem was that despicable.

sceptical said...

Prof. Holloway's letter is a good reason why Collin and Reade should think twice before going back to Duke. Perhaps she can join Houston Baker at Vanderbilt.

sceptical

M. Simon said...

westernblot 12:16 PM,

Good point.

However, since I know nothing more about her in regards to this issue I'll giver her the benefit of the doubt.

It is quite possible she infected him with her racism and that may have had some influence on his behavior i.e. stoking his sense of grievance rather than damping it down.

In any case even with perfect parenting such cases are hard to reverse. So she still gets some props from me for even trying. If we had a method for dealing with such kids and didn't follow it then she would not be praise worthy. However, we have no such common knowledge. Yet.

Too bad the 88 didn't put their talents to better use.

iocat said...

Here's a helpful life hint: If someone uses the phrase "social construct" you can pretty much safely ignore anything they ever say again.

GPrestonian said...

From Holloway's resignation letter per the article:

"“The public support [the administration] has extended to these students has been absent in regard to faculty who have been under constant and often vicious attack,” she wrote."

Words fail me - do we have a copy of her actual resignation letter?

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

So, in Holloway's mind there's only one way to see it...
Guilty until proven innocent...
Well, what goes around comes around.

Anonymous said...

One down 87 to go

Anonymous said...

One down 87 to go

Anonymous said...

Well now at least the CCI should be readable.

Anonymous said...

87 to go?

What about Brodhead, the trustees, office of affirmative action, etc?

Anonymous said...

I understand Prof. Holloway disagreed with inviting the defendants back to school...guess she would not be candidate for signing the Economics Dept. "You're welcome here" essay...but what did it matter that an important hearing date was coming up? Is it just she did not like the University taking any stand on the case (obviously she took her own stand, though) and thereby potentially influencing the outcome of the case, or does she expect February 5 to be a turning point in the case (a dismissal) such that the University could invite the players back on February 6 without making an exception to policy for these defendants? I wish she had clarified her reasoning a little more on this. But the fact she felt compelled to resign (maybe she was asked to do so---more points for Duke if she was) speaks volumes about the lack of evolution in her thinking over the past nine months. Cathy Davidson may not be apologizing, but she certainly acknowledges she has done some thinking and intends to do more. It is just incomprehensible how Prof. Holloway's thinking could remain militantly static after the stark, unmistakable lessons at the hands of Mr. Nifong. It seems extraordinary trauma can achieve deep and lasting damage at any age.

Observer

roper said...

I can only imagine Karla Holloway, secure in her Ivory Tower, has long been immune from any serious criticism.

It must feel like a "cold shower" for Holloway to hear the turning of her own words against her.

The blog criticism must sting especially... because it is the truth.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jhn1 said...

I think I see something that I have not read other thoughts upon, but here goes.
With the incitements by the ad, by President's invitation of the Black Panthers and their subsequent preliminary actions, Holloway's "parrallel" justice (which sounds like plea for vigilante actions all by itself), with the absolute insistence that the Lacross players (as a group, and to a man) were rapists, just which ones should we go after first, ...
Wouldn't this all be seen as incitement for a lynch mob? Trying to stir up somebody , anybody, into taking retribution into their own hands because (boil down and paraphrase) "We know that the lacross players are guilty and have no need at all to allow for any defense or such foolishness that might let them off on a technicality (such as innocence) or something."
Actions consistent with trying to stir up a lynch mob would increase the legal liability during a lawsuit if I am not seeing something that isn't there

Anonymous said...

Can we all ignore 12:29 PM, please.

This was a good thread until he/she came along. Just pretend he/she is Holloway trolling, which for all we know is true.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Wow. To the extent that lunatic fringe faculty could be controlled at all, Brodhead has clearly lost control. This is a fast moving train and he is holding the loose end of an untethered handbrake. But for the level-headed approach (not to mention brave) of the economics dept and Prof. Baldwin, Dook might actually come out looking WORSE than either Nifong or Precious in all this, to the extent that is even conceivable.

I suppose the only way to control people who live in a consequence free environment (tenured, faculty "working" part-time, eight months out of the year come pretty close) is to screen them out before they latch on to the gravy train. Just hire mature people with actual records of accomplishment in the real world and your students will learn from (rather than endure) their professors. In its, uh, race to hire identity-based "academics", Dook has joined other once-respected University's whose ranks are filled (although as we see from the brave actions of a few, not exclusively) with a faculty that does not pass any marketable skills to its students, but instead devotes its time to their decreasingly relevant, personal political agendas, and are unable to deal with the real world, either in or out of the class room. Who else gravitatesto tenured, part-time positions of dominance over subordinates as their primary career, other than the weak and incapable (again, with apologies to the minority of instructors with a passion for a relevant subject)?
I will tell you who: people willing to use their little power to "fail" otherwise passing students whom they elect to have a problem with. I hope Dook gets NAILED in that suit, so they can get hit in the pocket book and make better hiring decisions in the future. It was Dook's bad luck that this spark went off on their powder keg of immaturity.

Brodhead: who do you think is more likely to possess the tendency to immaturely and unprofessionally fly off the handle in advance of any actual evidence: people with a real-world record of accomplishment, or professional students who have never had to provide for themselves in the real world?

I went to UNC for undergrad and Wake for law school. Of those two schools, I would hire at Wake grad over a UNC grad eight days a week. UNC has what Dook appears to me to have: completely lost its way in hiring relevant faculty in lieu of a blind-devotion to promoting the P.C./liberal agenda by filing the ranks with Holloway's ilk. This could have easily happened in Chapel Hill (I am sure on the athlete side, but certainly on the faculty/admin side of things). Dook just got very, very unlucky.

Anonymous said...

12:43

Stupid people say, do, etc stupid things.

People are giving "professor" H much too much credit. Her utterances are totally consistent with someone who should be teaching hip-hop to preschoolers.

Jay said...

I sincerely doubt 1229's bona fides and I disassociate myself from his remarks. Probably Holloway or a friend.

Anonymous said...

12:48

Just logged on. 12:29's post has been deleted. What are you discussing?

Anonymous said...

" “The decision by the university to readmit the students, especially just before a critical judicial decision on the case, is a clear use of corporate power, and a breach, I think, of ethical citizenship,” says Dr. Karla Holloway, "

Do as I say, not as I do.

Anonymous said...

hmmmmm - methinks Miss Karla was not getting her way on the CCI committee.

--which is good news, of course.

Anonymous said...

People, its just a way to reduce her workload. With this one statement, she gets out of committee work and ensures her classes are small (no men or athletes) for the semester. Quite efficient really.

Anonymous said...

to 12:47

"Wow. To the extent that lunatic fringe faculty could be controlled at all, Brodhead has clearly lost control."

If Brodhead wanted to 'clean house', - and there is no evidence he does - he has as little control as Lawrence Summers of Harvard did - NONE.

If the entrenched tenured faculty are "a'gin ya" - you're toast.

Tragic indeed, but the way it is.

GPrestonian said...

New Order in DukeLAX Case

Judge Smith just ordered the non-paternity test.

To those who would question my nomenclature, a 'paternity test' is done to determine who the father is.

Unless they're planning on running the baby's DNA through a database that includes more than Dave, Collin, & Reade's references, this one is a non-paternity test.

Anonymous said...

Apparently the Meehan DNA on Dec 15 and the dropping of rape charges were not enough to warrent review of the students cases, according to Holloway.

Duke is in a tough spot with Holloway. She organized the Duke 88 letter and will be the focus of many lawsuits to come.

If Duke admits she over reached, Duke is admitting that they did something wrong. Every Lax player and a few others who attended that party have been attacked by some Duke profs. The lawyers are collecting these statements and will use them in court against Duke and the Duke 88.

Even if Duke wins every case, they will drag Duke's name through the mud for years.

Anonymous said...

gp
Another job for Dr MEEHAN

Anonymous said...

BS, 1:09

The CRUCIAL thing that differentiates the Brodhead imbroglio from Summers's is the tie-in between black studies/women's studies and antimale, antiwhite racism. Thus, Brodhead has an opportunity here to show the CONSEQUENCES of hiring racist/sexist lightweights.

Defund BS studies.

RP

Anonymous said...

Perhaps they should compare the DNA with Noifong's.

GPrestonian said...

1:14pm Anon - LOL

If it actually was a real paternity test, the roads out of Durham would make the 2005 Houston Tx Rita exodus look like a Sunday promenade...

Anonymous said...

Headline

"Meehan Results: Child has 3 Fathers!"

Anonymous said...

The IQ of Nations

Source: Data of Lynn and Vanhanen

Average IQ of:

Iraq--87
Lebanon--86
Morocco--85
Qatar--78
Congo--73
Ghana--71
Ethiopia--63

These are facts, gentlemen.

GPrestonian said...

1:25pm Anon:

"Headline

"Meehan Results: Child has 3 Fathers!"


LOL! However, hidden in the details was the fact that none of them were LAX players...

Older Holloway article from Diverse

June 13, 2006 - Black Professors Under Pressure At Duke; Six Black Faculty Quit


Quote from article:

"When you are serviced to fix the problem and you are also the victim; it’s a double duty.”"

Had time for the Listening Statement, but not to 'fix' the problem she helped cause...

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Anonymous said...

1:39

You're obviously a genius.

How could I possibly criticize that crap?

RP

Anonymous said...

Sign me up!

Anonymous said...

To 1:26pm
What the hell is the point of this post?? Are you retarded?

Anonymous said...

Suggest everyone read Clarence Page's "analysis" of the racial aspect of the Duke fiasco, referenced on this site.

Clarence fails to point out the principal reason for the problem: affirmative action, a k a incredibly low standards for blacks.

RP

PS--the IQ data are correct, but why are they posted here? Probably because previous posts have been deleted, and thus attendant confusion, a k a non sequiturs.

RP

Anonymous said...

"When you are serviced to fix the problem and you are also the victim; it’s a double duty.”
- Karla Holloway

Sad. This woman is clinical paranoid, and throw in self absorbed for good measure - unbelievable !

Anonymous said...


"When you are serviced to fix the problem and you are also the victim; it’s a double duty.”
- Karla Holloway


And she can't use English for shit.

Anonymous said...

1:39
I think the correct address is Pseudo-Science Drive.

Anonymous said...

1:59

"serviced to fix the problem"?

Yes, Duke is paying a 6-figure salary to an incompetent.

Couldn't we use her salary to pay for wells in sub-Saharan Africa?

RP

Anonymous said...

KC
1:11 from N&O
"In another order, Smith directed that transcripts of a closed hearing be provided to the lawyers in the case. In that closed hearing in December, the lawyers and the judge discussed sealed records."


What is that about?

Anonymous said...

"sealed records...What is that about?"

Assume it concerns CGM's health records (mental health history), which were sealed and reviewed in Judges Chambers.

Anonymous said...

Some Facts...
1. The Liar (false accuser) is a professional stripper, this is her vocation. So, I guess, to be politically correct, she should only strip for black men or black sponsored parties, to avoid the race issue.
2. A party with alcohol at a University is NOT a social injustice, hell, I don't think it's really that wrong.
3. Enlighten me, where exactly is the social injustice ? If a wealthy white person hires a poor minority to strip, do plumbing, clean house, drive cars, paint, etc.. Is this actually social injustice ? The team hired black strippers for a party they sponsored, the strippers were strippers for a living, so duh !!
4. Morons like Prof. Holloway WANT to keep race an issue, it is to their sole benefit.

Bday....

Anonymous said...

Can we start referring to the false accuser in a more accurate fashion?

I like violent felon.

Anonymous said...

yeah, how scum LIAR

Anonymous said...

whoops, I can't type, I meant, how is "Scum LIAR"

Gregory said...

Perhaps it would be helpful for the University to insist that the "Gang of 88" attend some type of race sensitivity training.

This would allow them to explore the dangers of jumping on the first "race" issue that pops up without first getting even the basic facts straight.

K.C. Johnson for 2007 Duke University Commencement Speaker! IT HAS TO HAPPEN!

The seminar might even help the Gang with issues such as "Whether or not to hold a belief that someone is guilty of a crime because of their social status, race or participation in student activities."

A topic could include "How to apologize when you were obviously and dreadfully wrong," or "When is it a good time to bait the races?"

Of course, some attendees might find classes like this helpful: "School Grades: Should race and the presumption of guilt be included in the grading curve?"

Yes, I think a little sensitivity training is in order.

Anonymous said...

2:55

I'm not buying.

What needs to be done now is for Duke alumni to seriously evaluate whether Richard Brodhead is fit to lead Duke through the G88 morass.

Duke needs a leader unafraid of addressing the issue of defunding BS studies. I said it early on, and I've been vindicated.

Brodhead is a bitch.

RP

Anonymous said...

The lacrosse captains hosting the party actually tried to hire white or hispanic strippers. They did not request blacks, but that is what showed up (and one, Crystal Mangum, showed up very late and very drunk). All the AA's (including Cash Michaels) who've screamed about the exploitation of black women -- can you imagine the kind of things they would have said if the lacrosse team had told the women: sorry, we requested white and hispanic strippers; we're not interested in seeing you get naked? The AA's would be screaming that the players had demeaned and humiliated black women, just because they were black. As it happened, the players accepted the black women, paid them to dance, and we know the rest. No way for the lacrosse team to win this one; they were racist exploiters if they did, and racist exploiters if they didn't.

Filadefian said...

Holloway speaks of "cultural facts". I'm guessing that in her world, "cultural facts" depend on the usual trifecta - your race class and gender. Unfortunately, they don't depend on those troubling technicalities of the legal system, like the presumption of innocence.

In the case of her son, the evidence of guilt (of not only rape but murder) was apparently so overwhelming that even she (his own adoptive mother) doesn't attempt to dispute them in her book.

What she does do, and this is a big hint at the root of her bitterness, is blame the racial and sexual taunting that he received as a black child in white foster families for the deep anger that lead her son to be a rapist and murderer (if this were so, our prisons would be full because who among us has not been taunted at some point?). You can read parts of her book at Amazon -see p.13. So for her, the all too infrequent opportunity for "payback" of white boys (black on white crime is vastly more common than vice versa) must have been a deeply desired outcome. In her mind, I'm sure, 30 years would have been fair just for the "racial taunts" that the players made, rape or no.

Anonymous said...

So the women's lacrosse team was "morally slender" to support their innocent male counterparts, according to Ms. Holloway? Well I guess it's better to be morally slender than to be morally emaciated, as Ms. Holloway has repeatedly shown herself to be.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Michael said...

re: 3:19

She had the kid for 14 years and
didn't see any problems?

There are quite a few drugs available to treat many psychological disorders and many of these drugs allow those with mental health issues to lead some semblance of a normal life.

I know nothing of the home environment at the Hollowells so I'm ignorant there but blaming an outcome of rape and murder seems
to me to be a little inconsistent with the small description of the early problems of this child.

I'm in the camp that says that raising children is our most important work. I'd like to think that many professors share the same belief. Raising children today is tough and a lot of work. It's nice to look at the pictures of Collin's family to see a cohesive unit but any parent knows that building something like that took a ton of work from both parents and a supportive community.

I can't help but wonder if there is some jealousy from Prof. Holloway at families that have been successful at raising normal kids.

Anonymous said...


I know nothing of the home environment at the Hollowells so I'm ignorant there but blaming an outcome of rape and murder seems
to me to be a little inconsistent with the small description of the early problems of this child.


It is important to give childs a moral compass. If the child gets a worldview of being totally suppressed by bad forces and having no chance, very disruptive acts may follow.

Anonymous said...

Not a fan of Holloway, but some of these foster children have severe problems. Few people adopt older kids just for that very reason.

I'm sure she loved him and tried to help him. Sometimes the problems are just too great.

Anonymous said...

No one reads a message board for balance, but some is required here. A case that initially attracted a bandwagon of the radical left is quickly become cause celebre of the right.

Messrs. Evans, Finnerty, and Seligmann are innocent. They were wrongfully accused by a lying, troubled woman and wrongfully pursued by an out-of-control, maniac prosecutor.

Professor Johnson and others have done a great job focusing on the truth. The Group of 88 was misguided in their initial assumptions but attacking them does not un-do the harm nor make it less likely next time. The exception being any member of the 88 who discrimated against students in grading or classroom harassment.

Save your venom for the real "evil-doers" and leave your extremist agendas - left or right - out of a clear cut case of truth vs. lies

Anonymous said...

I still do not buy it. There is something there that we do not know.

Anonymous said...

I understand the problems of sabotaging trolls, but as to those of us who are not trolls, can't we leave Professor Holloway's tragic son out of this. None of us knows enough to speculate. There is plenty to criticize Holloway about without being mean spirited.

Anonymous said...

To 4:01 and 4:04 PM-
Amen. When you have to reach this far for the facts, perhaps you're straying.

This is about 3 men wrongfully accused.

Anonymous said...

LOL. I couldn't stop laughing wheni read this sentence!!

Simply put, this is KC Johnson in classic fashion: "Holloway’s departure from the CCI is a welcome development."

Well said soldier.

RM PAM

Hey said...

1:39 Hilarious, I'm signing up now. This is exactly what allowed the Sokal Hoax to occur, and they have learnt nothing from it. Apparently Doc Sokal needs to redo his work monthly with a different cultural studies/ critical theory journal until they are all liquidated and their departments and professors banished from every school in the country.

2:35 If you're male, you're wrong and evil; if you're white or asian, you're wrong and evil; if you have a decent job, you're wrong and evil. Woe betide those who hit the trifecta.

3:19 Yeah it's Catch-22, because they're sexist, classist, racist bigots, out to do as much possible to their enemies. We need to shut them down permanently. Duke is just the beginning.

This travesty is not over until Brodhead and the Gang of 88 are fired from Duke and the endowment loses a substantial proportion to the LAX 3. If they leave under any condition except dismissal for cause, this will not be an effective lesson or turning point.

Don't donate ANY money to ANY University unless you have written assurances that it won't go to support these kinds of attacks on students and society. Don't support ANY University that has an insurgent leftist like Broadhead running it or a treasonous board of Frenchmen like the Harvard Corp.

I'm not a Duke hater. I'm a hater of the status quo in the Academy that gets rid of Larry Summers (a fairly Liberal Democrat, for cripes' sakes), that attempts to prevent non-insiders from becoming trusteest (Hellooo Dartmouth), or that attempts to block a renowned scholar for petty violations of PC and collegiality (KC, that'd be you). It all has to be destroyed, and the Gang of 88 is the best place to start.

If you're a Dukie who can't see the truth about the national problems in the Academy, well then you're just part of the problem, and we'll have to make you part of the pavement!

Anonymous said...

I would strongly agree with 12:47. I have a Duke and UNC daughter. I always felt Duke was liberal and UNC bizarrely liberal.
I now can put them in the same category. My Duke daughter went to Wake for graduate work and it is closer to the middle. I am not sure the liberal race and gender world truely exists outside of the university. Life's experiences and educational focus determines how individuals see the world. I feel sorry that Holloway sees the world in such a way. Political correctness has gone beyond the absurd. However please don't call me a redneck but an appalachian American or I'll be offended

Anonymous said...

"“justice inevitably has an attendant social construction. And this parallelism means that despite what may be our desire, the seriousness of the matter cannot be finally or fully adjudicated in the courts.”"

I would think this would frighten anyone, especially if they found themselves in the position of the Scottsboro Boys.

Anonymous said...

KC,

While I have been reading DIW daily for several months now, other have not. Would it be possible for you to recapitulate most of the overarching developments from the alpha to the omega? New readers of DIW would benefit immensely.

RM PAM

Anonymous said...

3:47, 4:04

The "tragic son" did have victims. I am not sure this is not relevant.

Anonymous said...

Real victims, not imagined.

Robert Stockwell said...

My note to Ms Holloway with a cc to Mr. Broadhead.

Thank you for your recent resignation from the CCI. It represents the first step – among many needed – to begin to return Duke University back to its former status as a leading University that is focused on academic excellence, professional (and professorial) integrity and a bastion of support for its students.



The Economics Department’s recent statement set the “right tone”. Your resignation from a Committee begins a process to set the “right tone” in your Department. The final resolution is for you to resign from the University and provide an abject apology for your actions and the behavior you led in your Department.



As a graduate of the MBA program (Fuqua 1994) and strong supporter of Duke University, I urge you to assist and lead in bringing this shameful episode on the part of the “rush to judgment” professors to an end.



Bob

Anonymous said...

KC: Could you summarize what you think should be done regarding Duke? (perhaps a new article on this blog)

For example, what do you think should happen to Brodhead, Gang88, Duke (re lawsuits, future hiring practises), pseudo-science departments, alumni actions and donations etc.

Anonymous said...

No one has followed up by taking 10:25 AMs word to the logical conclusion: "By resigning the CCI, she avoids future criticism, reinforces her intolerant agenda and lightens her load."

The logical conclusion, begs teh following questions:
1. Does her lightened load mean lightened compensation?
2. Does she continue to get paid the same(or more!), for doing less?
3. Would scream racism if her salary was lowered to match the lightened load?

Likely answers: No, yes, yes. The fact that she *has not" screamed racism, makes it much easier to provide accurate prediction to questions 1 and 2.

KC Johnson said...

A few in this thread have asked for a general summary--which strikes me as a good request.

Tomorrow's post will be a "key events" summary; I'll also, on Monday's post, plan for a general summary that updates events since Oct. 7.

(This will follow up on the 60 Minutes broadcast planned for Sunday.)

Of course, between now and then, who knows what will happen?

KC Johnson said...

A few in this thread have asked for a general summary--which strikes me as a good request.

Tomorrow's post will be a "key events" summary; I'll also, on Monday's post, plan for a general summary that updates events since Oct. 7.

(This will follow up on the 60 Minutes broadcast planned for Sunday.)

Of course, between now and then, who knows what will happen?

Anonymous said...

Mike Nifong will be the guest on 60 minutes.

You heard it here first.

Anonymous said...

I have long held the view that people do what they are incented to do.

I had no idea that we are incenting rabble rousers, who are academically and intellectually weaker than their peers, to command top wages at top universities to keep racial strief alive in America. I am such an innocent. I am almost sorry that I have discovered this sorry truth.

We reap what we sow, and we are reaping the fruits of afirmitive action. The line has not simply been crossed, it has been obliterated.

Newyorkstateofmind said...

"She denounced their 'team-inspired and morally slender protestations of loyalty that brought the ethic from the field of play onto the field of legal and cultural and gendered battle as well.'"

And thus does Holloway confirm by way of caricature the worst instincts and inclinations and posturings of the coddled lefties who make up all-too-many of the faculty at our "elite" universities. In other words, a la Holloway, the women's lacrosse team has no business commenting on, half less defending, the men's lacrosse players in the dock for Stalinist crimes against PC.
Bad enough that they intrude in the legal matter at hand--the railroading of innocents to virtually lifeterms of incarceration; that's bad enough in the mind of Holloway; even worse, and even more unforgiveable, is that in aligning with and defending the Duke Three, the women's LAX squad is venturing into the totally taboo territory of the "cultural and gender [battlefield] as well." How dare these right-wing wackos impose themselves onto the hallowed terrain of "gender studies." Why, they are betraying their sex...errr...gender. Or so thinks Ms. Holloway, based on these unscripted thoughts of hers.

The good news is that Brodhead and Nifong and several members of the Group of 88, and very possibly even some of their enablers, will be well-placed to receive a legal summons regarding a civil action against them from all-manner of Duke students impacted and abused by the legal outrage still unfolding against the Duke Three.

As I've posted before, I believe signifcant Bar-discipline action (anything short of disbarment for what he has done is a joke) against Nifong, half less truly criminal charges, are in the realm of slim to none. But civil suits...ah yes, civil suits...may 1000 such suits bloom in the aftermath of this atrocity, making Chairman Mao, if not proud in his gravely post-life quarters, at least impressed.

Anonymous said...

Michael Gaynor has posted a new essay:
Duke case: Davidson and Brodhead, no; Johnson, yes
"Brooklyn College Professor Robert K.C. Johnson's April 23, 2006 article, titled "The Group of 88," was posted 6 days after the initial indictments in the Duke case. It is neither hateful nor belated."

bill anderson said...

Does anyone have a hint as to what the 60 Minutes tone will be? Since Ed Bradley is not around to do it, will 60 Minutes do a 180 or will it continue to debunk the Nifongery?

I will miss it Sunday night, but obviously am very interested.

Cedarford said...

Anonymous said...
Holloway lobbed criticism at the administration for not "backing" her. Is the irony lost on her?


Bwwaaaaaah!!!

The general tenor of her past remarks is that Duke exists so liberal faculty can pursue personal visions of social justice, not the institution's mission of education.
And if that quest for social justice meains Faculty activists must wage race, gender, and class war against the student body - it is Duke's obligation to defend the warriors from the 5% most intolerant, Leftward fringe of society. Against 95% of the rest of America.

With, I guess, in her academically inferior mind, an obligation for students, faculty, corporate donors, and alumni from the other 95% to financially support hiring and development of more fringe-dwellers like her. Who publish little, educate little, and talk to and "speak for" students who would struggle if put in other Duke degree programs..

I understand the problems of sabotaging trolls, but as to those of us who are not trolls, can't we leave Professor Holloway's tragic son out of this. None of us knows enough to speculate. There is plenty to criticize Holloway about without being mean spirited.

Like it or not, this is a woman who purports to be an expert on social justice who nevertheless raised not just a rapist, but a true monster.

Bem Holloway was a rapist and murderer. He also stabbed his two "oppressor race" young rapees multiple times and left them to die. The rapes and attempted murders were so heinous he had 95 years + for just them. He was awaiting death penalty trial for the kidnapping and killing of another woman and murder of a store clerk. And being investigated for possible kidnapping, rape, murder of another missing woman. Described as an evil young man, full of hatred for "all sorts of people". Shot while attempting to escape from prison, and the guard should be commended for ensuring such a predator was not allowed to roam free again.

Humanity was fortunately never treated to Hitler, Stalin's, Pol Pots mothers lecturing us all as an expert on social justice and urging us to adopt her ideas, side with her on who should be punished, and ways to improve academia and us all.

Yes, the sins of the sons should not fall on family, the sins of the fathers and mothers are not those of the children......But it strongly colors any argument of a mother of a monster that she has the right ideas, the right approach to "reshape a better society" and give "angry voices their due" in context of her 14 years of imparting her values and ideas on a son who turned out as Bem Holloway did.

A person has a track record in life. Bem Holloway was Carla Holloway's #1 student for 14 years. No one had more tutelage from Carla than Bem Holloway.

Carla - White innocence is black guilt, male justice is female injustice

When evaluating if Prof Holloways ideas and teaching affect her students positively or negatively, if her values are healthy or malignant for Duke and society - you must evaluate how ALL her past students have fared.

Her adopted son might have been "disturbed" and bad before she got him. Or he might have been influenced by others. Or shaped by her. We don't know...but someone might have a better idea by interviewing Bem Holloway's classmates, cellmates, co-murderer on where his ideas of "social justice that needs to be meted out" came from.

If this comes out as overly nasty, I apologize in advance...but you DO have a mother whose son left a trail of massive destruction arguing that she knows best what other lives best deserve wrecking now...

Anonymous said...

Does anyone remember the book published early 1990s, titled: "The Dumbing of
America"?

No doubt many on this blog have been in Corporate America for 15+ years and have seen the dumbing. It's not just Corporate America, it is everywhere. There is a declining percent of people in the USA who are able to speak correct English (and I'm not talking JUST about immigrants).

5:02 is right, we do reap what we sow.

Anonymous said...

Carla Holloway's son's activities

Anonymous said...

5:25
Beautifully expressed.
I concur totally.

Anonymous said...

Well..Lightening does strike twice in same place!

Move along the bus please Ms Holloway .... more PC lemons to follow.

Anonymous said...

5.30. Me English is gettin betta now , I have me MBA and notice my boss speeks like wot I doo!

PC dumbs down most of its students!

Cedarford said...

In fairness, as my 5:25PM post covered the catastrophe of her son as possibly impacting on Holloway's values and teaching, it should be also mentioned she has a gifted, successful daughter.

Anonymous said...

To KC Johnson

You've outlived your usefulness to your own blog.

KC, why haven't you posted an entry about what this case is really about? You know, the failure of "African Americans" to compete in high-IQ institutions?

Like Brodhead, are you afraid?

Would there be an 88 without affirmative action, KC?

Your book will be a joke--politically correct, and irrelevant.

Anonymous said...

NEWYORKSTATEOFMIND: I agree...Bar-discipline action likely to be slim to none.

I was thinking of this today while exercising. Our friend KEMPER comes on the blog and shares conversations he has with his drinking buddy who is either on or close to the Bar.

Kemp, bless his heart, shows a consistent theme in his posts. That theme being: what the bar is going to do at some point in the future. Hardly ever (if ever?) has Kemp talked about what the Bar is doing *now*.

The Bar lost their credibility when they only wrist slapped prosecutors for withholding evidence in a murder case several years ago. Kemp says the Bar wants to reclaim that lost credibility by making an example out of Nifong. Pure bunk. Because if there was anything to that claim, they would have shown more output than just a blustery complaint that concludes with events months past. Case in point: Didn't the Bar leave it open ended when Nifong has to respond? In other words, he doesn't have to respond by a certain date!

Clearly the Bar is hoping someone else will solve their problem. Cowards.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:46pm


KC, why haven't you posted an entry about what this case is really about? You know, the failure of "African Americans" to compete in high-IQ institutions?


We know you are a Gang of 88 shit stirer.

Anonymous said...

5:53:

Do you mean "stirrer"?

Look at Johnson's posts. He talks about the 88 sa if they are individuals.

They're not. The most important are stupid affirmative action hires.

Why can't he tell the truth about this?

The so-called "racism" of these morons is nothing less than the rantings of stupid people in positions of power they would never have achieved without low-IQ, race-norming "policies," a k a "affirmative action"

Sad to say, but Johnson resembles Brodhead more than he'd like to admit.

Please, can someone prove me wrong?

Anonymous said...

But, wait, what "other body" will now be pressed into this service?

Karla Holloway is now only one resignation away from being where she belongs: unemployed.

Filadefian said...

5:46 - In what sense is this blog "about the failure of "African Americans" to compete in high-IQ institutions"? What did KC say to make it "about" that? Last I looked, this blog was "about" preventing an injustice to three young men and and entire team. Mediocrity has no color - some of the over-promoted clowns in the Group of 88 are black, others are white - they are mostly fools incapable of thinking a clear thought or writing a clear sentence. KC's blog has shed unfortunate light into what passes for merit in parts of academia today (something that KC has personal experience with), but that was a side effect, not a goal.

M. Simon said...

Filadefian,

What is not well known is that such taunts may affect people differently depending on their genetics.

PTSD and the Endocannabinoid System

Click on the CB1 receptor link at the above url.

Short version: depending on genetics some people get over it, some don't.

KC Johnson said...

To the 5.46:

Yes, that would be African-Americans like Jim Coleman, who oversaw the inquiry into the team with fairness despite a procedure that could have been wholly unfair; and then spoke out against Nifong's misconduct at a time when virtually everyone else in the academy was silent.

I've been called many things during this affair (it comes with the territory, as Karla Holloway seems not to understand). But I must say--this is the first time I was compared to Brodhead . . .

Anonymous said...

5:46 - Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but doesn't ranting about race and divorcing the individual and his or her unique qualities as an individual in favor of group stereo-typing make the writer just as bad as Ms. Holloway, Mike Nifong and the Group of 88?

That's what this case is really about folks. It's a primer in what occurs when racial stereo-typing allows itself to infect the culture of a university and the criminal justice system.

I want people judged on their merits as individuals, not on the perceived merits, or lack thereof, of their race and/or social background.

-Esquire-
-Maryland-

Anonymous said...

But KC, there's an obvious parallel between you and Brodhead. Brodhead has to put up with prose like Karla's, while you must suffer the likes of 5.46. Maybe now you'll show a little sympathy for the man?

Filadefian said...

6:01 Even if KC believed what you say (and I strongly doubt that he does - I'm not sure if you really believe this yourself or are some kind of agent provocateur) then surely it would not be in his interest to say it out loud - this would make it all too easy for his critics to dismiss him as a "racist" crackpot and cause any influence he has in preventing injustice in the case of the Durham 3 to drop to nil.

Why don't you start your own blog and campaign for the elimination of affirmative action in academia instead of trying to hitch KC's blog to your cause (if it really is your cause and you're not just trying to sabotage KC's). While you are at it, please be sure that we get rid of legacy admission preference, athletic recruitment, leftist domination of faculties and all the other things that take away from the ideal of the university as a place where people and ideas advance on merit alone. Good luck!

M. Simon said...

Anon 5:46PM does have a point.

African Americans are 15 points (on average) below 100 (average). This is not disputed.

Because of this the number of people above 140 IQ will be severely limited due to the way IQ is distributed.

Thus a quota system (afirmative action) will have to go lower into the black IQ pool to get the requsite numbers. Thus the "studies" programs where rigor is not a requirement.

We see the same thing for Jews on the high end. They are (on average) 15 points above average. Which means the numbers above 140 IQ will be huge compared to the average population. Small differences in the mean make huge differences on the tails of the curve.

M. Simon said...

I find it interesting that I defend Karla's son on the basis of genetics and condemn afirmative action for the same reason.

I calls 'em like I see 'em

Proud American said...

Ode to Karla Holloway
Proud To Be White

Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Native Americans, etc. And then there are just Americans. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.
You Call me "Whiteboy," "Cracker," "Honkey," "Whitey," "Caveman" .. and that's OK. But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head, Sand-nigger,
camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink ... you call me a racist.
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you, so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King
Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You
have Yom Hashoah You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi You have the NAACP. You have BET. If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) . we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day .. you would call us racists. If we had White History Month . we'd be racists. If we had any organization for only whites to "advance" OUR lives . we'd be racists. We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that? If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships ... you know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US , yet if there were "White colleges" . THAT would be a racist college. In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride you call us racists. You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society . you call him a racist.
I am proud. But, you call me a racist. Why is it that only whites can be racists?

Filadefian said...

m. simon - Do you remember the shit storm that was raised by The Bell Curve book? Even if what you say is true as a scientific matter, it is effectively a third rail (touch it and you die) in terms of what passes for "main stream" credibility today (understanding that the "main stream" of media outlets and other institutions is well to the left of popular opinion - witness the popular support for the prohibition of affirmative action in Michigan which was opposed by virtually all "main stream" institutions and bien pensant writers). KC has achieved some fairly sympathetic coverage in the press and has become a meaningful voice in this process. The surest way for him to destroy that influence would be to take on the structure of affirmative action in America. KC is clearly a brave guy and is not afraid to take on the powerful in a just cause, but you have to pick your battles. Maybe when the Durham 3 are free, he can make this his next cause (if he has any interest in that cause at all) but now is certainly not the time.

Anonymous said...

Karla-
Thanks for doing everyone a facor by resigning. Why not resign from Duke also and teach at NCCU?
Admit it, you only got to your postiono due to affirmative action- not intelligence!
Please sell your wares elsewhere.

God Duke Lacrosse players!

Anonymous said...

very highly paid prof (I've heard close to 300K), no committee work anymore and just a bit of teaching.
Sounds like a dream job to me. Don't think you will see her resigning from that. Matter of fact, her life is probably way better now.

Anonymous said...

American post-secondary education lost its way when it started creating political agendas cloaked in degree conferring majors, but the dam officially breaks when:
1) state-implemented racism(not santioned or endorsed, but implemented) gets S.D. O'Connor's thumbs up and reigns are turned over to University administrations, [note: I defy any member of the Group of 88 to reconcile Dook's affirmative action policy with Martin Luther King's I have a dream speech. I will be available all day Monday to discuss it at their convenience].
2) Yale holds a spot for a member of the Taliban, but won't let the military recruit in New Haven,
3) and the Gang of 88 walked unscathed from this affair.

I genuinely believe that a quality academic, education has its uses in the modern economy, but the real question asks whether the modern American system is the proper delivery device? Should I, as a father of a six month old, be teaching my son Mandarin Chinese in the hopes that he could go to Beijing one day and get a quality education?

This knee-jerk hysteria to launch a race war at the first excuse calls into question the relevance of a modern American undergraduate (humanities/soft science) education. I am a transactional attorney in North Carolina (who could not have gotten into Dook at any level), and my three biggest clients didn't finish high school. They started their own businesses after working for a few years (starting at 16) and each could buy and sell most of the attorneys I know (including many Dook grads).

If Rupert Murdoch figured out that the MSM had replaced reporting the news with advancing its agenda and launched a vehicle that was designed to re-center things (which, if you compare its success to Air America, the numbers show it is at least viable), is there a place for a, to borrow the term, parrallel educational system? I'm not proposing Fox U. (an outlet with a counteragenda), but perhaps a University that focuses on useful things like requiring students to pass proficiency in languages that you could speak in Jordan, India, China, Japan, Germany, France and Florida (for example), a school that could REQUIRE business courses of all its students, have a race and gender blind applications process [printed on form # MLKJ-1], require business, computer science (and golf!) for every single student, no exceptions, and required courses in math, engineering and economics (I have some good candidates on my short-list for my dept. chair) and where the only social science courses taught are national securities studies, military history [i.e., tactics, strategical analyses of the causes of past wars and the uses and limits of National IOPs--P.S. I learned so much more relevant material from my Air Force Professional Military Education courses than I did at UNC it is not even funny] and finally, where faculty publication is forbidden for the first ten years {instead they could try teaching... remember teaching?]

Just a modest proposal of a dreamer.

M. Simon said...

Filadefian 6:49PM,

I'm not advocating any one take up any cause.

I just present the evidence. You decide what to do about it.

BTW even if Karla's adopted son was handicapped by his genetics and life experience, putting him away for rape, murder, and other crimes was the right thing to do, since at this time we have no idea how to fix the problems those conditions caused.

Yes there are meds that help. However, there is no way short of medical incarceration to force such a person to take the drugs they may require. We have as yet, no permanent cure.

There are questions out there that have no answers or only the crudest of answers. This is not a perfect world where every one is much smarter or much better than average.

And yes I do remember the "Bell Curve' broohaha. In fact I have recently been reading it along with another book I got from the library on elementary statistics. Remaindered for $.25 ea. Couldn't pass them up.

BTW the data in the "Bell Curve" (pub in '94 I believe) that was considered controversial has been confirmed in the intervening years.

Anonymous said...

I'm musing about the IQ numbers reported for other nations by some anon poster upthread. I think most of those nations are either socialist or autocratic. Hmmm.

First, is Ms. Holloway a recent immigrant from Ethiopia or Ghana? If not, why are those numbers relevant?

I'm also chuckling over the plight of some poor, rural Ethiopian upon being presented with any of the IQ tests I've taken, which always feature many of those stupid "what shape will this box be if this figure is folded along the lines." Poor bastard can't even ask the proctor what a box is. I'd also guess that having most of the population almost starve to death might affect the mean IQ.

Anonymous said...

Not to return to an ugly topic, but Ms. Holloway adopted her son at age 4, but she said he went on his rape and murder spree based on racial slurs thrown at him by earlier foster parents? When he was 2?

Anonymous said...

5:46 et. al - I am not sure this is an appropriate place to discuss IQ differences among races and the like, but the fact is that the IQ gap between blacks and other races causes a lot of problems for academically competitive schools. And I am sympathetic to a degree (but only to a degree) to the problems such colleges face - even social conservatives understand the desire for diversity - they just don't like the costs of implementing the same.

In any event, the numbers are bleak. One recent study (2000) posited that there are only about 700 or so black students in the age 18 cohort group with IQ's of 130 or over. Is this figure wrong? Maybe. But it cannot be too far off - because only about 1500 black students score above 1300 on the core (old sections) of the SAT - a score that for non-minority students does not gain admission to Duke unless they have a very unique skill or attribute (i.e., All American athlete, offspring of huge donor, etc.). These "qualifications" (I hesitate to call IQ an qualification) are, however, a minimum of what it takes to really compete at a competitive institution - and all the more so for graduate school. And the numbers reflect a scarcity that is just overwhelming - and a scarcity that is rarely talked about openly. Look at the US News Top 25 (which has more than 25 schools). Off the top of my head, let's say they collectively matriculate 75,000 freshmen students (probably on the low side given the size of Michigan, Cal, etc.). (And note that this number excludes excellent liberal arts schools such as Amherst, Williams, etc). And let's say that each school wants to meet a 10% black student goal - so gee, there is a need to fill 7500 spots with only 1500 or so really qualified students (over 150,000 white and Asian students reach 1300 on the SAT). The competition for black students is simply insane.

So what is a college to do, particularly a Top 25 school that is hidebound to stay that way (and with good reason, given the money and prestige that follow)? Well first, they must lower admission standards - in some cases rather drastically. And second, because these less competitive kids will come to campus not only less prepared and maybe just flat out less capable (not to mention unfamiliar with the brutal academic competition - the people I studied with at Duke were actually more capable than my classmates at a top 10 graduate school), they have to have a support system to accomodate them. And this support system isn't just limited to tutoring and assistance - it means majors such as African American Studies and Ethnic Studies that can help get these kids through (don't take this as a knock on AAS - it has its place) with professors sympathetic to their plight. And of course they must be sympathetic - who the heck wants to remind them that they are not as bright or capable as their classmates - not a great feeling for anyone, but especially a young person.

And to the professors - think that the group of 1500 (SAT's) or 700 (over 130 IQ) - take your pick - all choose academia - particularly when industry to meet EO 11142 goals falls over themselves to attract and pay qualified black applicants? No, these groups (not the talented tenth as DuBois described but more like the talented one percent) don't head in droves to academia - and so what's left is generally (and of course there are exceptions) of mediocre quality - stuck in programs like African American studies, Ethnic studies, and the like, which, based on academic quality and critical thinking content, have actually become intellectual, jargon filled ghettos. And because of white guilt (and the race to attract black students in the face of really lousy odds), university leaders find departments and majors that accomodate these professors to be sacred cows - irrespective of the intellectual value they bring. Of course, if one has to continually trade on victim status and race (and jargon appurtenant thereto as opposed to non-conclusory, data driven thinking and research, no debate or discussion can be brooked over issues such as race and entitlement - it is simply too threatening to the entire system of accomodation that has been set up to mask the real problem - the real elephant in the room - there are simply too few black (and to a lesser degree) resources to go around. The problem is profound - demand so outstrips supply - and unlike in many other markets - the racial achievement gap remains depressingly large and demand appears a long way off from being met.

I write this not to put down anyone - but to bring out this issue that drives just so much of the silly condescending behavior seen in academia. I hope, but without any sense of change, that the current crop of race/gender/victicrat advocates would spend as much energy on changing cultural mores regarding education and having children without being able to properly care for them as they do on their efforts to exalt victimhood above all else. I am not optimistic.

Cedarford said...

Anonymous 7:30PM Ms. Holloway adopted her son at age 4, but she said he went on his rape and murder spree based on racial slurs thrown at him by earlier foster parents? When he was 2?

Do you have a link to which article in which Karla Holloway blames racist non-black foster parents for her sons rape and murder rampage?

That ought to be revealing...

Filadefian said...

7:40 Very well said. The problem is that nobody knows what to do about this. Is the problem caused by poor schools? A genetic factor? Some difference in the way that american blacks interact with their children (e.g. talk to them less)? That "being smart" is equated with "acting white" so that kids learn to suppress any signs of intelligence in order to survive among their peers? Low self esteem? Some combination of all of the above? The "cure" depends on the cause and in some cases (changing the way parents interact with their children) goes well beyond the degree of interference by the state that we would normally tolerate and in other cases (assume genetics as a cause) is literally incurable short of eugenics. As you say, nobody likes the idea of campuses with no black faces, but there is also some question whether schools (especially professional schools) are doing black students any favor by accepting those who are not qualified - for example some very large percentage of black law students never pass the bar exam, so what are they doing in law school except assuaging white guilt and acting as diversity seat decorations? But we are really getting far afield from the Duke 3, no?

Filadefian said...

cedarford:

Go to http://www.amazon.com/Passed-American-Mourning-Memorial-Franklin/dp/0822332450/ref=nosim/?tag=chickenajourn-20

to see the page for Karla's book Passed on: African American Mourning Stories,

then click "search inside"

and search for "sexual taunting" to be taken to "front matter" page 13.

Anonymous said...

All this IQ crap is just that. I can't believe people are doing these rants--unless they are some of the trolls who want to discredit the brilliant light of this blog. This blog has illuminated the truth about these three victims of political correctness and the complete abandonment of prosecutorial integrity. Breathtaking.

Those who would hijack it to discuss IQ have one motive only: to hide the truth. The wicked are among us and it really, really doesn't need a discussion of IQ to find such evil.

Anonymous said...

From the book:


In fact, as we now know, his best talent was to bury the horror that was building in him from his memories of the sexual abuse that he experienced in the foster homes and the racial and sexual taunting that greeted him as a black child in white foster families.


As a person whose mother died when I was ten after years of abuse from her domestic partner I think this is bullshit.

I have limited memories of events before I was five.

M. Simon said...

anon 8:21 PM,

You can't handle the truth.

Anonymous said...

filadefian - I think we are getting far afield - but at the same time we are poking at the true source of rage and disappointment.

I suggest reading this week's New Yorker - a frankly very balanced piece about the troubled public schools in Denver. The author deserves kudos for a balance, well, not seen at the New York Times. In any event, one comment struck me in the article above all else - and it was made in the context of a description of the Superintendent's frustration over his inability to effect change (he is a white, well educated Yale grad and former Clinton appointee). The comment was that the best way to avoid being called a racist is to ignore the awful and profound problems taking place at black and hispanic schools. A cogent statement if there ever was one. And therein lies the problem - minority achievement and cultural problems do not get better if they are not identified and attacked openly, yet to do so is deemed racist. Accordingly theories and notions that ascribe all problems that minorities suffer to the dominant white power structure (a fine tuning of Marxist theories, in essence) are popular because they permit everyone to avoid the elephant in the room.

And kudos to the Superintendent there - who clearly has made mistakes but is not acting like the apparatchiks in academe - he openly decries the problem that only 33 black tenth graders out of 5000 or so black tenth graders in the City tested at grade standards. Numbers and data matter - even if they make people uncomfortable - it is the only way to progress.

Anonymous said...

To 8:29pm:

Was there any evidence provided that this racial and sexual abuse had actually ocurred, or was it simply a convenient excuse to excuse subsequent mad dog behavior?

There are certainly plenty of white males who turn into mad dogs in their late teens and early twenties, but we do not blame racial and sexual abuse for that.

M. Simon said...

anon 8:29PM,

The structure in the brain that stores these memories is pre-verbal.

The amygdala.

The length of storage is dependent on genetics.

Which is why most people get over it and some don't.

The CB1 system and aversive memories

Filadefian said...

8:21 Although IQ is somewhat "off topic", I think 7:40 gives a very cogent analysis of the way in which IQ differences help lead to the political correctness you rightly decry. At some point (not now I agree) in order to eliminate the politically correct environment that now prevails on campuses, it will be necessary to address "root causes". Obviously we are not going to achieve a color blind society with people at the helm whose very means of earning a living depends on the continued persistence of racial identity politics. Even putting aside the bitterness that must fill Karla's life as a result of her son's death caused (in her mind) by the taunting of white people, appointing her a guardian of racial neutrality is like "servicing" the fox to guard the henhouse.

Anonymous said...

5:46 talks back:

6:09: You posit the thesis that this blog doesn't deal with "the failure of African Americans"--excuse me, but what are the Holloway/Lubiano/Baker posts all about? The point I'm making, my dear boy, is that Johnson is fallaciously postulating that the "individual" HLBs at Duke have meaning--THEY DON'T. If this had happened at Harvard, the same affirmative-action actors would have entered the fray in similar fashion. Therefore, it's a structural problem. Holloway, Lubiano, and Baker are but "manifestations" of the problem.

6:15 Professor Johnson, who cares what a lightweight has to say about an important case (cf Professor Coleman)? I really have to laugh my butt off when conservatives defend black conservatives that agree with their ideology--regardless of the black conservative's cognitive provenance. I invite all posters to examine James Coleman's CV at Duke Law. He has accomplished nothing.

6:20 I'm not stereotyping. Do you think Professor Holloway's inability to construct a rational sentence is a stereotype? Methinks not.

6:25 the legacy fallacy--Ask Harvard graduate KC Johnson about legacies at Harvard. True, they are not as bright as the meritorious, but compared to affirmative-action cases, they are rocket scientists.

6:49 You're afraid of "The Bell Curve"? Why? You're willing to fund racists at the expense of telling the truth about racial differences? Hey bud, last I looked Ash Jews and SE Asians were outperforming white guys. Please don't tell me that's true, 6:49.

7:11 Right on, brother.

7:40--Great post. Yes, this is an appropriate forum to discuss IQ differences. Remember, the prime movers in the G88 were affirmative action blacks. Had these people not been at Duke Brodhead would certainly have come out against Nifong earlier. And why shouldn't we discuss the fact that most black studies professors are antiwhite cognitive lightweights? Wahneema is not an aberration. Yes, we must point out the elephant in the room.

Listen up, folks. We're living in a big world now. There are geniuses from China and Japan, eg, that are never mentioned IN ANY CLASS at Duke. Is that moral?

Everyone is familiar with Spike Lee.

Question: Has anyone on this blog heard of Guy Maddin? IMO, he's the greatest living director, but I bet no one at Dook has ever heard of him.

Roman Polanski
Film Director

Anonymous said...


appointing her a guardian of racial neutrality is like "servicing" the fox to guard the henhouse.


People who have a more wide-ranging knowledge know that farmers use bulls to "service" their cows.

The correct choice of words is all important when trying to reach the widest audience and avoiding ridicule.

westernblot said...

Since we are on the subject no one in polite society is permitted to talk about the black white IQ gap unless it is in the context of poor schools. Anything inherent is verboten.

On the other hand I, as a Jew, am aware that certain SE Asian groups appear to test higher than Jews and it does not trouble me to discuss it.

I would say what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Filadefian said...

8:39 -

I realize that as well as you. In modern social "science" academic speak, nouns are made into verbs (to "privilege") and clear words and sentence structures are eschewed purposely, in order to make themselves sound smart and to disguise the fact that they are speaking nonsense.

I was parodying Karla's use of "service". She was quoted as saying: "When you are serviced to fix the problem and you are also the victim; it’s a double duty.”

Anonymous said...

They do it with adjectives too, e.g. 'othered', one of Wahneema's favorites.

Anonymous said...

8:48--Suggest you visit La Griffe du Lion

Entry entitled "Smart Fraction Theory" presents an interesting analysis of white/Asian differences.

Hint: Verbal IQ is more important than mathematical.

RP

Anonymous said...

8:36 - Roman Polanski - in my prior job as an Assistant General Counsel for a Big 4 accounting firm I had the fortune to become familiar with James Coleman's legal work. It was very, very good, and he truly fit the description of an excellent lawyer that just happens to be black. I can't speak to his CV at Duke but I can assure you of his quality as a lawyer - absolutely top notch - and thus it is no surprise that he came out cogently in favor of principle and a rule of law. And by the way, he is no conservative by any means, but he is, as we all should be, ethical and principled. Just wanted to give my views based on personal experience. And by the way, I am 7:40, if you are seeking any intellectual consistency (I make no claim to it).

Anonymous said...

The IQ stuff belongs elsewhere. It is an interesting issue but not pertinent here.

To make assumptions about individuals based on group level data is not appropriate in this context. We need to stay focused on the misdeeds of individuals who do not necessarily represent larger groups. I think the turmoil we have seen over the past nine months is more about deficient hearts and souls than it is about deficient intellect.

SAVANT

Anonymous said...

Holloway is a pathetic tool. First she wants the larger social construct to be the final and ultimate arbitrator of justice in a cultural and historical context outside and beyond the justice system. Then when Brodhead judges the defendents in the same larger social context Holloway asks for, outside the justice system, Holloway objects. She got exactly what she asked for, but the result was far different than what she really wanted - "a pound of flesh". Brodhead realized that the justice system was out of control and offered the defendants a "social" parden and he is willing to be judged in the historical context Holloway asks for. The problem Holloway has is that she will also be judged and again it will not be as she wanted.

Even though she stepped down from her CCI position, I suspect she will have more than ample opportunity to explain her actions both verbal and written in civil court. I'm sure a jury will be thrilled to listen to her double talk and rationale for slander and libel.

M. Simon said...

anon 8:57 PM,

Except in engineering. LOL.

BTW I'm an engineer by trade. Figures.

Except I scored higher on my verbal SAT than science or math. (took the test several times in '61-'62).

And no I won't tell you my scores. That would be bragging. Which this sort of is anyway.

Besides real determination can make up for some IQ differences. If you can't be smarter, work harder.

Anonymous said...

To 9:07 PM Savant
I agree. Much of this stuff is moving off-topic. I'm beginning to feel 'othered'.

To 9:07 PM #2
Great post. I've been trying to pull this contradiction together in my head, but you've nailed it beautifully.

Anonymous said...

If your goal was to get into Michigan five years ago, it helped to have a 1600 on the SAT, but it really paid to be black.

Affirmative action is racist and hurts black people in the long run [how must the black students who get in on their own merits feel?]. It is racist: why aren't Asians "minorities" for purposes of the program?

Every proponent of affirmative action knows this in their heart of hearts and it is for that reason that they are so hysterical in stifling the debate on the merits.

It is important to note that opportunities don't hurt black people; it is the liberal notion that a person cannot compete based on the color of their skin and based on pigmentation alone, are in need of help that causes the irreparable (not to mention degrading, racist and humiliating) damage.

Fair minded, kind-hearted people would find ways to deliver the opportunity without the degrading, racist policies that undermine black achievement.

M. Simon said...

Anon 9:07 PM,

Has it exactly right. Treat people as individuals.

However, as a group the race based "studies" departments do seem below average for academics.

Figuring out why is important. How we got here may tell us something about how to get out.

Equality before the law is the most important thing this case teaches us. The high IQ privledged must get treatment that is just as fair as the average citizen gets. Due process and all that.

In fact the "Bell Curve" reflects on the discontents that the distribution of smarts may bring. The authors suggest that at this time there is not much we can do about the disparities in wealth the disparities in IQ cause. They do suggest that there be more social mixing among peoples of all levels of smarts. Prevents people on either side of the divide from becoming uppity.

We can treat every one equally based on their character and equality before the law.

Filadefian said...

For those interested in Holloway Jr.'s rap sheet, here it is:

http://tinyurl.com/ydd9lr

I would say that young Bem "accomplished" a lot more than the accused lacrosse players ever did in his brief 21 years of freedom. And this doesn't include the several murders for which trial was pending.

On an another chilling note, the same page gives the text of the NC statute that authorizes guards to prevent the escape of prisoners by "any means necessary" (such as 19 bullets in the back). I wonder whether such laws are where Malcolm X (a man with some familiarity with the prison system) got his "By any means necessary" slogan and whether this hints at the "means" he had in mind. By the way, the group that is defending affirmative action in Michigan (an action that they will surely lose in court) is called "Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration & Immigrant Rights And Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary." I wonder what these "means" will be once they lose their legal challenge or are they as full of hot air as their long winded name suggests?

Anonymous said...

Ann Coulter's column this evening is on the LAX case.

"At the next White Males of Privilege meeting, someone ought to bring up how they can use their vast power to win the right not to be put on trial for crimes they didn't commit."

Anonymous said...

Thanks 9:17. I've been thinking about this a lot recently. It appears that the Group of 88 have taken a very interesting legal strategy. One of double talk, obsfucation and revisionist history. I truly believe that Holloway et. al. are trying their best to muddy the waters, create upheaval and confuse a future jury pool. Holloway's recent resignation from the CCI and her complaints about Brodhead's actions are not rational from this poster's viewpoint. That is I don't think her motivations are linked to any ideology at this point, but more to a practical pursuit - self preservation. The Group of 88 and Holloway are seeing the walls close around them-public humiliation, academic derision, and the most dangerous threat - long and costly civil litigation. Their only cover is a smokescreen of doubletalk, lies, spin and confusion.

Orange Lazarus

Anonymous said...

To 8:36, you are a racist pig, no doubt about that. Maybe "The Bell Curve" should be read by everyone. Can you tell me on invention, that we got from an African American. Africa was here long before the United States even existed, and look where Africa is now.

Anonymous said...

Anyone up for a Karla Holloway write-off?

I'll start.

'The attendent social paradigm invading the recumbant class of priveledged degenerate incubus raises serious orchestration to a merely deconstructive channel.'

Anonymous said...

to defender of Coleman--I'm sure what you say is true. What I was pointing out is that Coleman's no upper-echelon constitutional scholar, which is how he's promoted.

re "consistency" Google Oscar Wilde on this--LOL

RP

M. Simon said...

9:44 PM,

There are smart blacks and dumb Jews.

George Washinton Carver was a pretty smart guy.

The only thing the "Bell Curve" tells us is distributions and probabilities. It says nothing about individuals.

Filadefian said...

More utterly chilling detail, this from the archives of the 7/4/99 Raleigh N&O (need some kind of database access - I got in thru a library ProQuest search):



Bem Kayim [Bem] Holloway, the 22-year-old man who broke into their North Raleigh home on May 20, 1998, who raped the daughter twice, who tried to slit her throat and disembowel her with a butcher knife after eight hours of torture, had been shot and killed while trying to escape from a Caledonia prison farm cotton field.

The daughter is 23, a veteran of therapy and physical rehabilitation. The butcher knife Holloway used sliced so deeply across her fingers that she still has not regained feeling in one hand, and doctors say, perhaps never will. Her skin is fair, and the pale scars across her throat aren't noticeable until she lifts her head. The scars on her abdomen are thicker. She points to one and says, "This is the 'I love you, Mom,' scar because I really thought when he plunged the knife in then that I was going to die, so I yelled that out to my Mom."

The mother's and daughter's testimony, along with ample evidence, got Holloway convicted on attempted murder, rape and robbery charges. He was sentenced to 76 to 95 years in prison. He was also faced the death penalty in pending trials for the murders of two other women - 32-year-old Peggy Carr of Wilmington and 30-year-old Julie Stehlik of Robeson County. Holloway had bragged to the daughter about the other murders, and she was to be a witness for both trials.


(Another article mentioned that the victims lived in the same subdivision as Holloway - nice neighbor) I takes a special kind of psychopath to torture his victims for eight hours. You don't want to blame his parents but I'd wager my own life that no child of mine would ever act in such a depraved manner.

Anonymous said...

Roman Polanski,

I agree the IQ stuff probably belongs somewhere else, but it is interesting, and I read your Smart Fraction Theory. I know we are supposed to believe that IQ is innate and independent of educational background, but I cannot see how that is possible, especially for Verbal IQ, which as I recall includes a vocabulary section of some sort. Quality of educational systems seems to correlate pretty nicely with national IQ and GDP, too...any research you know of on this?

Observer

PS Always interested to read your posts...James Coleman is still a HERO to me, though. Character trumps cognitive ability, but he seems well equipped on both fronts. Have you read what he has published? Do you really blame him for not cranking out huge volumes of published work when it has not been necessary to advance his career? Just curious.

Anonymous said...

Allow me to ask a simple, hypothetical question:

Assume the same circumstances the night the "rape occurred":


EXCEPT Duke has no affirmative action and no BS studies departments

Pray tell, what is the story now?

RP

Anonymous said...

I have a brother-in-law who is a convicted felon. I have known his siblings and his parents for decades and trust all of them completely. He is simply an outlier.

Please drop the Holloway son. We don't know why this happened. That tragedy is no less for her than any other parent.

SAVANT

Anonymous said...

10:17 says:


I have a brother-in-law who is a convicted felon. I have known his siblings and his parents for decades and trust all of them completely. He is simply an outlier.


Unlikely. An outlier is more than three SDs from the mean.

Since about 5 percent of males cause some 80% of all crime, it is unlikely that he and they are outliers. They would only be outliers if they were extremely violent or prolific criminals.

Get over it.

Anonymous said...

Can a professor lose their tenure over something such as this?

RM PAM

Anonymous said...

hey O,

give me a few to get back to you

what's shaking with daughter's apps?

RP

Anonymous said...

8:36 - Methinks Ms. Holloway cannot construct a proper sentence because that is an indication of Ms. Holloway's unique intelligence, or lcak thereof depending on one's opinion. Methinks you stereo-type when you ascribe her personal inabilities to Blacks as a group. Methinks that reeks of racism because you ascribe her personal imperfections and limitations to a group when, in fact, they go no further than Ms. Holloway. I need only look to Mr. Conway to know the false nature of your position.

Methinks you should be quite careful in doing so, because the converse of your argument is an acceptance and reaffirmation of her fallicious argument that white power and social identity was an underlying cause of a rape that, in fact, never happened.

Methinks you have learned little, and that if anyone should be worrying about IQ, it should be you. Methinks if we follow your argument to its logical conclusion, it lends support to the racially charged mental gymnastics from Ms. Holloway that lead directly to a rush to judgment that made the three Defendants' lives a living hell.

Thus say I. Thou are't enamoured by thine own perceived intelligence, which dazzles me not at all. Intelligence only really matters when it is applied to correct past mistakes, and to apply that learning to the future.

-Esquire-
-Maryland-

Anonymous said...

Esq

Stop bullshitting and answer my 10:06 question

RP

Cedarford said...

Holloway on her monster child In fact, as we now know, his best talent was to bury the horror that was building in him from his memories of the sexual abuse that he experienced in the foster homes and the racial and sexual taunting that greeted him as a black child in white foster families.

Yep, those sexually abusing whiteys! Racist whiteys!

You know how whitey foster parents are.

All their fault. They deliberately pick out young blacks to racially taunt and sexually abuse. Just like lacrosse players!


Certainly the boy didn't learn to hate and rage against certain classes of people in Karla Holloway's house! All happened before the boy knew how to speak.

******************
Now it may indeed be that nothing was her fault. But with her income and her Asst' Duke Dean trailing spouse's salary over 1/2 a million a year....what did they do to help him, if they weren't guilty in any way of twisting his mind against whites??

Yeah, they had a gifted daughter who turned out well.

But I would think twice about a psychology teacher whose wife was bat shit crazy. I would think twice about hiring an accident prevention specialist who had a series of accidental injuries himself on a previous job. And I would take a motivational self-help speaker a little less seriously on learning 2 of his 3 kids are unemployed, drunken wastrels.

Anonymous said...

What relevance does this question have in all seriousness?

Most of the freaks were femi-nazis, big guy. They would have gone bonzo regardless.

-Esquire-
-Maryland-

Anonymous said...

Esq, "in all seriousness," I am convinced that the powerful affirmative-action lobby at Duke influenced STRONGLY both Nifong and Brodhead.

In other words, the G88 helped railroad the boys.

Please answer my 10:06 question, because, in all seriousness, I think I've stumbled on the real issue here: low-IQ "professors" with Duke-conferred "influence."

Respectfully submitted by RP

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