Thursday, January 25, 2007
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Comments and analysis about the Duke/Nifong case (2006-2014).
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- Meeting Reaction
- NY Post Article
- Facile Assumptions
- Hearing Postponed
- Duke Basketball Report Auction for ATAF
- Praising Stephen Miller
- The Times: DNA Exonerates (Except When It Doesn't)
- Barber, Wells, and the Sins of Denial
- Sunday Roundup
- Citizens' Committee Co-Chair to Nifong: Apologize
- Friends of Duke Petition
- Error Below
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- The Bar Lays Down the Law
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- The Insights of Georgia Goslee
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- An Agenda for the General Assembly
- Important Insights from the Herald-Sun
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- Nifong's Last Campaign Finance Report
- Ten--and More--Questions for the (Rump) Group of 88
- The State NAACP's Hypocrisy
- The Chronicle on the CCI
- Ashley: We Won't Apologize
- The Group of 88's Myths and Realities
- Fact-Checking the (Rump) Group of 88
- King Demands Inquiry
- La Shawn on the (Rump) Group of 88
- The (Rump) Group of 88 Strikes Again
- Let's Play Telephone
- The Special Prosecutor Route
- DBR on 60 Minutes
- Race, Racism, and the Case
- 60 Minutes Quick Hits
- The N&O's Verdict on Davidson
- Paula Zahn Cracks the Case
- Reactions
- Dissension among the Troika
- Bipartisan Calls for Federal Inquiry
- The Path from Here
- Nifong Is Off the Case
- A Lawyer for Nifong
- Coleman Reaction
- The Theater of the Absurd
- Meehan on 60 Minutes
- Motion
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- Bombshell
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- Early Dates
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- Holloway Leaves CCI
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- Understanding SANE: Tara Levicy
- Brodhead's Apologia
- John Bourlon: Legal "Analyst"
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- Cathy Davidson: In Her Own Words
- The Importance of Economics
- Apologia for a Disaster
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- The Only "Evidence" Left
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- The Absence of Self-Reflection
- Delusional
- Compare and Contrast
- Charlotte Observer: Recuse
- Mike Nifong, "Public" Servant
- Nifong and the Black Community
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- "From the Scottsboro Boys to Clarence Gideon, some of the most memorable legal narratives have been tales of the wrongly accused. Now “Until Proven Innocent,” a new book about the false allegations of rape against three Duke lacrosse players, can join these galvanizing cautionary tales . . , Taylor and Johnson have made a gripping contribution to the literature of the wrongly accused. They remind us of the importance of constitutional checks on prosecutorial abuse. And they emphasize the lesson that Duke callously advised its own students to ignore: if you’re unjustly suspected of any crime, immediately call the best lawyer you can afford."--Jeffrey Rosen, New York Times Book Review
Links
Motions and Documents
- Attorney General's Report
- DNA motion
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- Change of venue motion
- Bar amended complaint/Nifong response
- December 15 hearing
- State Bar v. Nifong
- Brewer removal motion
- Nifong December 28 letter to Bar
- Nifong January 16 letter to Bar
- Group of 88 statement (removed from Duke website)
- Group of 88 membership
- Transcript of relevant sections, April 4 "identification" "procedure"
69 comments:
How interesting.
That is quite a demotion for a SGT.
I wonder how big the shake up in Durham is going to be?
He ought to be happy he has a job, and I can only hope that the law deals with that obviously false report he had leaked to Duff Wilson last summer. What a team, Nifong, Gottlieb, and Wilson!
That’s funny! Maybe Gottlieb and Nifong can rake leafs together when this is all over!
How was the game?
Bet you couldn't tell the difference between Gottlieb and the Orange cone???
Eldred
I hope someone took a picture for Tony Soprano. He's got a lot of new material in the last few days with Nifong in court.
Dry spell, more like OT
Maybe they can have him serve as security behind the lacrosse goal during practice as well. Maybe they should call me when that happens and I can have a shoot around with the team that day.
"I didn't mean it, I promise."
Yes, it would feel good.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
Be careful in Durham, KC. You never know when "Durham Justice" might reach out and grab ya.
From your caring, Durham lawyer who stays away from the lunatics at the courthouse.
Was he wearing the cone on top of his head?
I've asked this before but no one responded.
What is the significance/story behind the "straight from memory" notes?
Why is this always brought up, etc?
thanks KC made my night.
your in durham and digging?
some people coming in from the cold?
DPD or DUPD?
I assume you went to the game? Good for you! An exciting last second win for Duke.
10:23: It's in the archives. Look it up.
10:23 - Because they were not made contemporaneously with the accuser's story. Gottlieb's notes came from "memory." Haven't these guys ever hard of a freakin' tape recorder? Many judges will immediately suppress such evidence due to unreliability (i.e., the chance a LEO may lie).
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
Tape recordings? Mary Winstead erased the last one. Remember??
10:31 - Curioser and curioser.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
KC,
I know this is off topic, but I wanted to bring your attention to the Genarlow Wilson case, another young man serving 10 years for recieving concensual, oral sex (while 17 years old) from a 15 year old classmate. Many similarities regarding prosecutorial judgement and ego to the Duke case. I would be most interested in your opinions on this, and perhaps a comparison/contrast. Actually, the Wilson case is a near spot-on hybrid of Duke and Little Rascals, very scary.
Frankly, the more I learn about the Wilson case, I have much of the same anger of injustice that I feel for the Duke defendants.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=wilson
Let's get to the end game on a quiet thread.
Simon, how do you post links correctly? Can you let me know?
Thanks.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
That is awesome!
Probably just picking up some overtime to cover is coming legal bills.
Esquire,
A bit off topic I know
I know you made mention of Loyola U.
Loyola in Maryland, or Philly?
Herr Gottlieb! We meet again.
Gottlieb directing traffic!how many people died?
Liestoppers Board thread on Gottlieb from earlier today:
http://z9.invisionfree.com/LieStoppers_Board/index.php?s=ec2a2f634e9690e235238c85792932ef&showtopic=1832
esq 10:35PM,
Here is my favorire page on the subject.
HTML cheats
It is not the very best (although it is pretty good and easy to understand). I like it because of the angel.
10:25 asked...DPD or DUPD...Does anyone know?
Which uniform was he wearing? Someone on LS commented earlier today that they had heard Gottlieb had gotten a job at Duke Security. Is this confirmation or was it only OT?
Esquire,
Replace [ with < and ] with >
No curly quotes and spaces exactly as shown.
[a href="http://www.tinyurl.com/"]Tiny URL[/a]
becomes
Tiny URL
Blogger's "preview" feature will show it correctly if you type it right.
Is there any transparency to the budgeting of legal fees by the Durham DA dept such that it can be determined if the city picks up the tab for these clowns.
I keep a text file of my commonly used html cheats and links open when ever I'm on.
Saves a lot of time.
I urge everyone to visit the journal Blacks in Higher Education. Click on "Latest News" on home page. Karla Holloway is profiled, and there are 2 other Duke-related stories: 1) Duke Law School has more than 10% black students, and 2) there is a record number of applications to Duke by black students.
The Group of 88 rules.
Affirmative action triumphs at Duke.
You write the headlines.
RP
I am going to give this a shot, because what is really at stake has not been raised by anyone in the debates I have seen.
As it stands today, all of us have seen what happens when the harpies of feminism allow their fancies to determine what happens in the justice system. In the university setting, the faculty is largely feminist, or made up of males that are either too blinded, or too scared, to say anything lest they be branded as not politically correct and as evil oppressors.
One should understand that the Duke Lacrosse case is the end result of a pattern in higher education that has been largely ignored by America at large.
Starting in grade school, a young male is thrust into a situation where classes are long, and they are lucky to get one recess a day. What happens? He performs terribly. Sit still? Are you serious? If he hugs another 6 year old girl, he's a molester. If he squirms, he's ADD, and if he rebels and refuses to be bored anymore, he gets shifted off to Special Education classes. These horrors are vastly more likely to happen to a male then a female student at a young age.
As a result, the male student is much more likely to drop out of school, and turn from education as a way to move up in society. Among caucasians and asians, the numbers are not as disproportionate, but in hispanic and black society, the difference between male and female achievements in academics is staggering. Of 100 blacks who attend college, 70 are female. Among Hispanics, the numbers are higher.
The result is a reaffirmation of poverty and low self worth that afflicts males, particularly in the minority portions of the opoulation that can least afford it. Have a problem with illegitimacy? Think about in terms of the numbers I have provided. How in the world is a successful black female supposed to find a husband on the same intellectual footing as herself? I work with many black female lawyers, one told me only one of her girlfriends has found a husband. Her words to me were that she simply could not find someone who matched her within the black community. It is maddening that as fantastic a person as this woman is, she cannot find a single black male that matches her because she is too well edcuated.
Studies have begun on what is now being termed the "Gender Gap" in education (with Harvard taking the lead). The alleged oppressive males presented by Duke's feminist teaching staff make up just 43% of all college graduates, though they outnumber females in the 18-24 age group.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x.htm
This case should serve to show why this has been allowed to occur. While females have been pushed to excel, men have been left in some sort of relegated oppressor role to languish. They are objectified, humiliated and preached to by idealogue feminists whose objective is not to correct historic imbalance, but to set up a new order where they get to do the oppressing. It is a role where the female gets the benefits, but not the accountability. Precious lied? It's okay, she's oppressed. Men's lives ruined? It's okay, they're men.
Start taking note, gentlemen. Work with your sons, and keep an eye on their schools. Their little mantra is that females are just as good as males in math, but better in English. Don't accept any of this nonsense, push the school, push your sons to succeed because they aren't getting it from the educational system right now. Force them into SGA, turn them into leaders.
Someone said I was a serious poster. You're damned right, because the big picture is what motivates me, and that goes far beyond this case to what made it so easy in the first place. These events did not happen in a vacuum.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
KC,
There is a possibility that Gottlieb was:
a.)working overtime
b.)moonlighting for Duke University PD
c.)'demoted'
(I hope that you enjoyed NC and presumably visiting with your sister and her husband. If you come again to one of the forums etc I will make the trip from Winston Salem to see you in person)
I do not know how Durham and Duke manage the security at their games but if DPD is not paying overtime then it would seem that there would be a 'drop' in police presence on game nights. This would be known and certain persons would take advantage of the situation (decrease in response times, decrease in number of officers in an area, etc).
Or they have their schedules to coincide with the games, ie, a 'surge' is built into DPD's scheduling. I doubt that.
I find it more likely that DPD pays overtime to officers who wish to receive it. This is how security works in my hometown and the police force is smaller and the university MUCH larger (it is in NC).
I suppose that DPD and DUPD have an agreement on the security arrangements so that costs are not entirely placed on Durham...which would mean that DUPD would require security personnel during games that they otherwise would not need. I would guess that they are off duty police officers.
I do not believe this is a demotion but a chance for Gottlieb to earn some extra money.
He certainly deserves a demotion (termination would be nice) but the overtime business is something that all police officers want to exploit. Moonlighting is a way for officers to receive extra income if no OT is available.
Interestingly there are some fun stories about off duty police officers in Durham (and Raleigh) moonlighting and getting into 'trouble' (trouble never means consequences though).
"I urge everyone to visit the journal Blacks in Higher Education. Click on "Latest News" on home page. Karla Holloway is profiled, and there are 2 other Duke-related stories: 1) Duke Law School has more than 10% black students, and 2) there is a record number of applications to Duke by black students.
The Group of 88 rules.
Affirmative action triumphs at Duke.
You write the headlines.
RP"
Perhaps their admittance was the result of their abilities...it is plausible that the admissions rate for minorities can increase (or decrease) over time due to factors other than affirmitive action.
I do believe that Duke Law admits students on factors other than merit but I did want to at least suggest that at an elite university where the 'best' students are applying to there is a possibility that the black applicant pool has grown 'stronger' in terms of merit over time.
Holloway, however, is a joke. Whenever I hear about her latest actions I cringe...often before reading her actual (nonsensical) quote or (outrageous) aciton.
esq 11:08PM said:
usatoday.com/news/education/2005-10-19-male-college-cover_x
Here is another reason:Demographics
11:14PM,
The choice assignments are inside on the floor of the stadium.
Outside directing traffic vs at least sitting in a warm car?
He was on the tail of the train.
Thanks Simon. But I think they go hand in glove. When a guy drops out of school and society, where does he end up? Drugs and crime. If we can improve education and create a system that encourages males of all races to stay in school, and to succeed, we can fix some of this problem. It is a huge problem, and will get worse if allowed to continue unchecked.
Or, to put it bluntly, it is in society's best interest to encourage males to be the traditional sucess-driven bread-winners they have been in the past.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
Looks like Gottleib isn't "gotting" much "liebe" from the PD...
(Gottleib = god love, obviously)
Esq. 11:08
You are correct. What you are describing is the feminization of American education. Normal young male behavior is defined as deviant. Female behavior is now the norm.
Some have argued that politics in the West have gone the same route as candidates take the Oprah approach to campaigning and leftist politicians emphasize feelings and the avoidance of physical conflict at all costs. Those Eighth Century Islamic fundamentalists will eat our lunch soon.
I remember that 60's bumper sticker that said "the next time someone is breaking into your home, call a hippie."
11:31 - And it is not getting any better. Males have been so beaten down as a group, we can't organize a response. It has to be one Son at a time.
I liked the Hippie quote. I was on a t-shirt site today that had one that said "Hippies Smell." I though that was sort of funny until I saw another one for a child that said "Help, Ted Kennedy is Driving me to Daycare." I could not stop laughing.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
-esq- 11:25PM,
Look at it this way: you have a business with easy entry, high profit margins, little schooling required, the girls love the flash.
VS stay in school.
You know we had similar problems during alcohol prohibition?
====
You also know that higher IQs correlate with the ability to delay gratification?
The problem is that the need for manual labor is declining.
What we are really doing is putting people for whom the market doesn't have an honest niche in jail.
How many real rape victims has Gottlieb interviewed?
11:19
Wish it were so, but it ain't. The most recent data I've seen tell us that college-age blacks with an IQ of 120 or more number only 1500 in the entire US.
So if you're referring to an elite LAW school like Duke's, it's impossible to have that percentage of blacks gain admittance without gross preferences. An IQ of 120 is low for an Ivy League school. A white or Asian would not be admitted to Duke Law with an 120 IQ.
This is Duke's ugly little secret, and I'm glad to publicize it because affirmative action played a big role in the railroading of the boys.
RP
re: males vs females in higher ed
MIT is still pretty close to 60/40 males to females last I checked (a few years ago). I think that Larry Summers would feel more comfortable there with his views on math.
It will be interesting to see if even MIT succumbs.
BTW, this isn't gender-related but is math-related:
Math education in the US
It appears that it can be pretty hard to get around this given how state standards work in penalizing for not meeting state standards via testing.
I agree about pushing math on sons and daughters but my personal experience is that you're better off with different approaches with boys and girls. Ideally, you have an approach tailored for each child.
Sometimes the state math standards reminds me of this case of a runaway train named Nifong. You know that the state standards are nutty but you have no choice in following them unless you're willing to lose state funding.
I'm getting a little far out in left field here.
Gary said...
That’s funny! Maybe Gottlieb and Nifong can rake leafs together when this is all over!
10:10 PM
Probably not. I haven't followed Gottleb's role that closely, but he probably will not go to jail. Nifong looks like he needs to check out how he looks in orange coveralls (or whatever current NC prison fashion dictates). Surely, as many goofs as Brodhead has made in "shepharding" Duke through this ordeal (as in providing feasts of Duke students to the wolves), surely even he would know better than to hire Gottleib for a campus police job.
Anonymous said...
Bet you couldn't tell the difference between Gottlieb and the Orange cone???
Eldred
10:16 PM
Ah, Eldred no need for insults at a time like this. It is only too easy to tell them apart. The cone is the smarter one. The cone has been insulted enough today. Imagine having to work with Gottlilb.
I agree with otherb posters, ot.
many cops pick up extra money with these events.
12:00 AM,
RP,
I'm having fun with statistics.
120 or above IQ (standard deviation 15) represents 1% of the population with an IQ mean of 85. If the IQ mean is 100 it is about 11% of that population. If the IQ mean is 115 then 37% will be above 120.
p.s. mt grandfather was a cop, ot, extra money for these events.
Also cops wanting to retire pull all the ot. Pension base don last three years pay, in many places.
RP 12:00 AM,
1,500 sounds about right if you assume 150,000 blacks coming to 18 years of age in any one year.
If you go for above 140 IQ the number goes to around 150.
Simon,
Forget my statistics, but the !% fig sounds high--is it correct?
It's not PC to point out that most college entrance exams are really IQ tests to the extent they are g loaded
RP
Simon,
Without preferences, do you know what the average IQ is for a Harvard student?
RP
At 11:08 PM
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
wrote about boys in the education system.
My wife used to teach classes of BD (behavior disorder, or maybe just BaD)students. She noted that she almost never had a female student. She also noted that almost all of them were big (tall) for their age, and probably somewhat frightened their female teachers, and she thought most of these teachers just could not relate to young males (probably not adult males either).
You are right, female teachers expect males to sit still for hours and not to be roudy, which is entirely expecting boys to be, well, girls.
Part of the problem might be that we have not insisted on gender diversity in education K-12, we have let the women rule that area of society, and our sons have suffered at their hands. This is probably one of the areas where diversity in employment would be the most useful.
RP, for top tier schools I think IQ mean is around 140 with a cut off of 130 (probably depending on SATs, school grades, AP courses etc.).
I saw the numbers a while back but I'm hazy. I know that they have to make almost 1 standard deviation of allowance to get enough blacks.
Yes the numbers are correct. mean of 85, SD of 15, 120 = 2.33 SD from the mean. 2.33 SD = .9901 of the population thus about 1% above IQ 120. Above 140 .01%
Nice calculator for 1 tail probability.
thanks, Simon
read an article that said average Harvard IQ is 130, so it must be a bit higher for whites and Asians
Duke definitely has an affirmative action problem--faculty and students. Does anyone know why Duke is in love with preferences?
I would guess that Karla Holloway has a 100 IQ.
RP
Ever notice that the response to any of these special-interest touchstone incidents is always more diversity? Seriously, no matter how things turn out or who is at fault, the solution is always the same. Want to be at the top in University hiring or admissions? Guess which matters -- accomplishment? ability? aptitude? different background or perspective? Nope. Different skin color? Yep. And yet, there are always very vocal complaints that it is not enough and demands for more.
m.simon sez ...
Yes the numbers are correct. mean of 85, SD of 15, 120 = 2.33 SD from the mean. 2.33 SD = .9901 of the population thus about 1% above IQ 120.
Actually, I don't think those numbers are quite correct. As I recall, the mean is 85, but the SD is about 12.4.
There also appears to be good evidence that among whites, the male SD is about 16 while the female SD is about 12.4 on a mean that is around 100 (although there is some speculation that males have a slight--maybe 2-3 point advantage, but since they fudge the subtests so that male and female averages come out close to each other, that is harder to argue).
Thus an IQ of 120 is amost 3SDs above the black mean ... and an IQ of 130 would be just under 2SDs above the mean for males, about 2.5 for females, and about 3.75 for blacks if the basic stats are correct.
Just thought you would like to know,
La Griff du Lion has more interesting stuff.
I don't know North Carolina but my county has a satellite camus of a State University. The various departemts around, including mine, provided extra officers for various events. The host city got arout 35%, the County another 35 and then the smaller, suurounding agencies divvied up the rest. The University had little control over who went where, it was a matter of seority within the "overtime office". An Officer could easily have twenty years on the job but be "junior" to a slick sleeve two years out of his probation period.
I wouold submit that Gottlieb is trying to load up his bank account because he can see the vultures circling overhead. Cops do not have nearly the immunity that DAs do. And the Internal Affairs Divisions are not nearly so forgiving as Bar Associations. There is a reason most LEOs are honest. Few of us survive prison.
The lawsuits and criminal indictments are coming. There are a host of smaller fry lining up to dump on Nifong and Gottlieb. Remember, the first couple of guys to roll get the pass, everyone else involved is fair game.
There was a piece of a thread on forgiving Nifong a couple of threads back. The LAX families will forgive him after the lawsuits leave him with one set of holey underwear under a prison uniform.
Atlantin,
I was unaware of the difference in B/W SD.
And yeah that would make things much worse.
Still means are easier to get accurately than SDs. So the numbers I came up with are the best possible case.
In any case I have read where the tails are fatter than a gaussian curve predicts and by the time you are out to 4 SDs all you have are rough estimates.
Anon. 2:33AM,
Yes. I read la Griffe. Excellent stuff.
My calculations were really simplified so a beginner could follow them. Esp. with the handy calculator link.
Thanks for extending the lesson!
I heard Gottlieb wasn't there workiing traffic; I heard he was there because the Clemson Team had reported a robbery.
;-)
Trinity '88
12:43 AM and others discussing the problems for males in the K-12 educational system. Okay, I recognize that boys sometimes suffer because they are being asked to fit into an educational system that isn't always well designed to match their temperaments and learning styles. But the elementary education my children experienced between 1987 and 1997 was a lot less rigid and provided a lot more room to talk and move around than the strict, silent elementary classrooms of my own youth (late 50's, beginning of the 60's). I, for one, was completely terrified of my first grade teacher, who often spanked students who misbehaved or were too noisy, and I am female. Yet then boys did much better, apparently, than they are doing now. Why is that?
I recognize that this comparison is a vast oversimplification (among other things, many fewer people of either gender went to college then than do now, schools and teachers were accorded more authority by parents, who were perhaps more likely to back the school in discipline when kids got in trouble rather than to get mad at the school, etc.), but that's actually my point. There have to be more, and more complex reasons, for these phenomena than just the teaching style in elementary classrooms.
I understand the point you were making, but because I hold traffic officers in high esteem, I don't agree with the "traffic direction" example to make the point.
GOOD officers are required for all aspects of police work. I believe Gottlieb has severe ethical issues to the point that his presence on the force, in any capacity, presents a problem.
Check this out ftrom the N & O:
"At least two Durham police officers are being investigated in connection with an assault late Thursday outside a Raleigh sports bar.
Hours after the alleged incident, two investigators involved in the Duke University rape investigation were assigned to administrative duty.
No charges have been filed, but Raleigh and Durham police confirmed Saturday that some Durham officers are suspects in the alleged beating of a restaurant cook at Blinco�s sports bar, 6711 Glenwood Ave., apparently after an angry verbal exchange.
In a statement Saturday, Durham police withheld the names of the officers being investigated, citing personnel privacy laws. The exact number of officers, and whether they are still reporting to work, also was withheld.
But when asked specifically about the status of Sgt. Mark Gottlieb, the supervisor in the Duke investigation, police spokeswoman Kammie Michael said Gottlieb had been assigned to administrative duty with pay Friday.
Also on Friday, Investigator Richard Clayton was placed on administrative duty with pay, Michael said. Clayton has assisted in the Duke investigation and works under Gottlieb.
Michael could not comment on the reason for the change in Gottlieb�s and Clayton�s status, or whether it was related to the assault complaint Blinco�s employee Rene Dennis Thomas, 29, made to Raleigh police."
http://www.newsobserver.com/145/story/463277.html
Atlantin sez:
These facts ( flatter IQ curve because of larger SD in males and 5 point advantage in Mean IQ ) explains why Summers at Harvard was making his politically incorrect observations of the possible cause of the easily seen dearth of females in the hard sciences and math especially at the pinnacles of achievement. White males just produce the bulk of individuals in the 150 and higher echelon.
Well, while there have been some studies that have claimed a 5-point IQ lead for white males, notably by Nyborg and another study by British authors, Rushton et al recently suggested it was only about 3 based on analysing a large number of SAT test scores, and La Griffe Du Lion suggests that it is only about 2.5.
Much of the rest of what you said does seem well supported, though.
When you force kids to do too much homework, take end of year tests, and put pressure on them to learn at too young of an age, you destroy kids and give them a mindset of failure before they are old enough to correct it.
Some of the smartest most successful people dont get it until they are late in high school or even college. If these same kids are destroyed by failure at an early age, they never recover.
We need less homework, more recess, and more social interaction in our educational system. The smart kids will still learn and be smart. The kids on the fence that could go either way might fall on the right side because they werent pushed to the wrongside of failure so early.
I enjoyed school much more then my kids will ever have a chance.
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