Rev. Curtis Gatewood served four terms as president of the
Gatewood has resurfaced to denounce the North Carolina Bar Association for joining “the lynching mobs in Durham who have verbally lynched and sought to politically assassinate DA Mike Nifong” as part of a “conspiracy to disrupt justice in this Durham case should be obvious.” The media are participants in the conspiracy as well, since Gatewood contends that “it is unprecedented that the alleged criminals and/or their defense team will be given the luxury of such a high-media platform to repetitiously proclaim their ‘innocence’ and attack their prosecutor.”
The lesson of this case, in Gatewood’s words, is that “the racist media and NC Bar Association who wrongfully used their influence to attack the integrity of a prosecutor at the rare time he prosecutes a case which profoundly has the potential to challenge racism, classism, and sexism simultaneously.”
Former Nifong citizens’ committee co-chair Kim Brummell is also speaking out, claiming that “the allege [sic] victim” is receiving unfair treatment from the media, which needs to look harder at the accused players and their supporters, since “I bet plenty of skeletons would be falling out of their closets.”
Such views, no doubt, reflect NAACP legal redress committee chair Al McSurely’s claim that the state organization stands committed to fair treatment for “both sides.”
Friday, January 26, 2007
More State NAACP Hypocrisy
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 276 of 276[And, the facts, surveys, statistics and data overwhelmingly correlate with the idea that false rape complaints are rare, not common. You choose to ignore the facts, surveys, data and statistics because that is not the narrative you want to hear. You are no different than Cash Michaels.]
Personally I prefer research. And what I saw last night disagrees with you.
Please provide research; not just simply statistics.
I agree. I prefer whores to lawyers any day.
Kimberly Guilfoyle is my new hero!
The UK study, which is available on last nights thread is a STUDY of almost 3,000 women rape victims.
You are just playing games, again, because you don't like the data.
Is the research you are talking about the Purdue Professors study that has never been replicated? How old is that study? 15 years? Older?
[If you can give me any examples of a DNA exoneration that was the result of a false rape charge and NOT a mistaken identity, please do.]
You can't really be that blind, can you?
[You are just playing games, again, because you don't like the data.]
You are playing games because you don't like the research.
[Is the research you are talking about the Purdue Professors study that has never been replicated? How old is that study? 15 years? Older?]
If you wish to criticize the research, please do so on the merits of the research. Human behaviour can remain remarkably constant over very long periods of time.
Michael,
I guess that means you don't have even one anecdotal story of a DNA exoneration that was due to a false rape claim and not mistaken identity?
I check the Kanin study, it was from 1987, like I said, never been replicated, a sample of 109.
I'm sorry, it isn't persuasive.
The Kanin study can be critiized on the following basis:
-109 cases is too small a sample size.
-None of the underlying data are available, e.g. the summary says false rape was only counted as false if the victim admitted it was false.
-It's 20 years old.
-It's findings have never been replicated, which as far as science go, mean it is an anomoly, it could have gotten a bad data set for many reasons.
[I guess that means you don't have even one anecdotal story of a DNA exoneration that was due to a false rape claim and not mistaken identity?]
You really are that blind.
Perhaps someone else will tell you the obvious. I'm just laughing too hard at the moment.
re: 5:49
Your arguments were discussed last night.
The low single-digits numbers were taken from the 70s and maybe the 80s and the source was arbitrarily taken as the low end of a range.
It's funny, Michael, I just checked The Innocence Project's web site and I didn't find ANY exonerations of rape convictions based on the rape complaint being a lie.
Isn't that odd? Maybe you got the data from somewhere else?
[It's funny, Michael, I just checked The Innocence Project's web site and I didn't find ANY exonerations of rape convictions based on the rape complaint being a lie.]
You literally can't see the trees because you're looking at the forest.
Well, no, I'm looking at data and statistics, reseach, surveys and a host of other factual information.
You appear to be looking into your crystal ball that tells you something which is not born out by any emperical evidence save one, single study from 1987, of 109 rape cases with no available background other than the conclusions and whose conclusions have never been repeated in the last 20 years. Wouldn't you think if the 41% figure was even close to correct, someone, somewhere would have come up with a similar study and similar result?
I suppose because this one stripper in North Caroline lied about being gang raped that we can then extrapolate that all strippers lie about being gang raped, all women in NC lie about being gang raped, all black women lie about being gang raped.
Is that how it goes?
Victim in MA are you out there somewhere?
[You appear to be looking into your crystal ball that tells you something which is not born out by any emperical evidence save one, single study from 1987, of 109 rape cases with no available background other than the conclusions and whose conclusions have never been repeated in the last 20 years. Wouldn't you think if the 41% figure was even close to correct, someone, somewhere would have come up with a similar study and similar result?]
Sorry no crystal balls here. I'm just looking at a blind man.
5:40 Lawyers are whores, aren't they?
6 06
Only on their good days.
5 40
I can't believe the position the NAACP has taken in this case. It goes against their entire history and it's really hurt their credibility.
That they would continue to rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic with Captain Precious and ex-First Mate Mike Nifong is inexplicable.
"They should be exploiting sexist mature men."
I'm exploitable ...
Is anyone concerned about Duke's ridiculous affirmative action problem?
10.6% of the law school are black.
Are quotas destroying Duke, and does the Group of 88 say anything about Duke's quota situation?
Duke Mom
This case can't end fast enough - how many more people and organizations will feel compelled to display a combination of willful blindness and blithering idiocy before this is over?
Good lord, what a screed!
I hesitate to post this.
I recall reading a few years ago that if Univ of Texas Law School required same qualifications from blacks as from whites, the school would have been unable to admit a single black.
Having posted this rather depressing factoid I am not totally against Affirmative Action.
what the heck,
I though these comments are about
"More State NAACP Hypocrisy"
6:03: No, it goes that at the very least 8% of women lie about being raped. Thus, a decent prosecutor can only be at the very most 92% sure a rape occurred in the first place. He should carefully examine the events alleged, the physical evidence, and examine alibi evidence.
These numbers, however, should go down when no DNA evidence exists tieing the alleged actors to the scene, she changes her story numerous times, and one of the alleged perps is seen via video evidence getting snackies at the time of the alleged event.
In that case, a competent prosecutor is 100% certain that a rape did not occur.
But we are not dealing with a competent prosecutor in this case.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
5:08 - You are arguing against yourself. In the event that it is 12%, one must can only be 88% sure a rape occurred.
Nifong's reaction that a rape "must have" occurred is already in doubt in that situation.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
6:22 PM,
It is quite possible.
The difficulty is that AA can get them in. It can't make them smart enough to graduate.
Better if they had gone to a less demanding school where their odds of graduating were better.
5:27 PM
Stripping, like pornography is publicly displayed sexuality for the gratification of an audience.
Prostitution is the buying and selling of sex between two people, with the 'transaction' usually occuring in private. Thus, prostitution doesn't publicly degrade women or contribute to the idea that women are sex objects and closet sluts.
What class did you learn that in?
So should we look at nudes or burn them?
Looking at nudes in public has been a very popular entertainment for mainly men and some women for a number of millenia.
So if stripping in public objectifies the stripper how do you explain nude beaches?
I can't wait for the answer.
And a countering voice from the military.
http://www.cmrlink.org/social.asp?DocID=276
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
How the hell do you think this imbecile thought this was going to end? When it became obvious there was no evidence, nine months ago, mind you, I thought he would still take it to trial; they would be found innocent, and he could say, "there, I did my best." But when you look back at his misconduct, and that of the humanoids that work for him, you really have to wonder how he thought he was going to get away with it.
I cannot believe he thought he was going to get a conviction, at least after the DNA tests came back. If he did, he's insane, and the calculated manner in which he has acted shows he's not crazy.
I still cannot figure out how he thought he was going to find his way out of this unscathed.
He is a sociopath.
I was watching "The Night of the Long Knives" on my Tivo last night.
One thing you realize from that documentary - there is no shortage of sociopaths out there.
7:01 - Feminist Jurisdprudence argues that all women tell the truth when they say they are raped because of society's alleged "scorn" for women who have been raped.
Only a fool believes that. Women who have actually been raped deserve and receive support and sympathy from the general public. Actual rapists also deserve long prison sentences in jail.
It should also answer your question. Evidence was irrelevant under the Feminist Jurisprudence argument. Her word, no matter that she lacks any credibility, was enough for Nifong.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
5:27 PM #1
"Stripping, like pornography is publicly displayed sexuality for the gratification of an audience.
"Prostitution is the buying and selling of sex between two people, with the 'transaction' usually occuring in private. Thus, prostitution doesn't publicly degrade women or contribute to the idea that women are sex objects and closet sluts."
What meta-narrative does this come from?
as kilgore (Power of the (College) Press 7:47 AM) says:
"Stereotypes breed double standards."
I smell a stereotype.
7:09 - Karla Holloway is a good place to start. Her works contain this sort of language.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
I don't think 5 27 has ever been to Amsterdam.
The Brain of Rodney King
Victim in MA are you out there somewhere?
6:03 PM
VIM has been indisposed due to surgery. She is recovering but is out of the blogosphere for a while. Believe me, I look forward to hearing from here when she is ready.
Did anyone see Karla Holloway quit her post on the Academic Council yesterday?
I'm certain the males on campus are expelling a huge sigh of relief. Maybe she can quit her post as professor next and we can all have a party to celebrate. She can then get a job at Smith College, if even they will have her.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
Duke Mom sez ...
10.6% of the law school are black.
Are quotas destroying Duke, and does the Group of 88 say anything about Duke's quota situation?
Well, given that blacks make up about 12.6% of the US population, at first glance, that does not seem out of line ... :-)
Of course, it would be interesting to see what percentage of blacks pass their bar exam first time compared with, say east asians and whites.
I am talking to VIM right now. She is recovering nicely.
In response to amac's speculations re/ Duke fundraising (from a prior thread, but the conversation seems to migrate w/ new posts).
amac, I'm a Duke alum who has donated in previous years, so I thought to share this information. Mind you, I haven't given anything large enough that the administration calls me personally or would necessarily notice or care in the years that I don't, it's been merely $100 or $150 at a time. FWIW, I genuinely enjoy talking to the student callers, they've donated their time on behalf of a fraternity/sorority/living group/athletic team/etc and I remember what it was like to "Dial for Duke" myself back in the day.
The last time they called (I believe it was in the late fall) I told the young man I was very sorry but I wouldn't be giving this time around. I said I'd hate to be in his shoes this year, but that I'm angry with the administration's betrayal of the lacrosse players, and this is how I choose to express it. Poor kid, I could tell he'd heard that one before. He pointed out that I could earmark my donation for the Duke Gardens or the Primate Center, and I replied that at the administrative level that's a shell game: just dollars that don't have to come from the general fund.
My personal opinion is that the administration's behavior - specifically Brodhead's - is far worse than anything the "Group of 88" did. Perhaps my expectations of faculty in the "ism" disciplines is too low, but I was a science major (Trinity '91: Biological Anthropology and Anatomy). The social science "academization" of agendas and obfuscation of logic is an annoyance that runs completely counter to the pursuit of knowledge - which is what I always assumed "science" to be about. As an aside, I happened to be at Duke when the Anthropology department split in two: Bio Anthro & Anatomy (evolutionary studies, fossil record, primate behavior, comparative anatomy, the Duke Primate Center, a few Med School profs, etc.) joined the Natural Sciences. The Cultural Anthro side remained in the social sciences and became their own department: free to pursue the revolution without competing for tenure against the scientists, albeit without riding on the coattails of their hard-earned and well-respected reputations, either. But, I digress...
In any case, of Brodhead I expected more. His choice to abandon his office's ethical responsibilities to the students, the broader Duke community, and the legal truth to the extent that they fell within his demesne, disgust me. Even taking into account the "delicacy of response" required by his role, I suspect him of being too weak of character for a position of such authority and influence. I'm aghast at his personal contribution to tarnishing the reputation of a place in which I have taken such pride.
To those who empathize with him, perhaps "hindsight is twenty-twenty" is sufficient explanation for his failure to rise to the demands of a difficult occasion. For myself, I'm inclined to believe that "rising to the demands of a difficult occasion" is integral to the VERY DEFINITION of a great leader. As it happens, excellent foresight - not merely "twenty-twenty", but twenty-fifteen or even twenty-ten - is frequently (though not necessarily) among the many talents that great leaders have historically brought to bear upon their particular challenges. Arguably, it could be among the distinguishing factors between the good and the great leaders, but by no stretch of the imagination is it a characteristic of the leadership of President Richard H. Brodhead. It goes without saying that he is not a great leader, and it should be just as clear that he's not even a good one. Open for debate is whether he's merely mediocre or indisputably bad, having had only one year to demonstrate his (in)competence. In the academic world, this would be the equivalent of parsing the difference between the "Gentleman's C" and the "Low Pass - student is unable, not unwilling." In either case, I expect the University's Board of Trustees to demand a higher standard of its executive leadership.
Consequently, this year those donorship dollars go to the lacrosse players' defense fund, not Duke University. Even if the lacrosse players turn around and sue Duke (which I fully expect) I won't regret my decision, because I'm confident they're on the course of what is right. Lest you think I'm unaware that the consequences may appear to be against the university's best interests, I assure you I am not. I don't foresee donating to Duke again until Brodhead is gone, and in any case I'm firm in my conviction that the pursuit of justice on the individual scale is the best method of pursuing truth on the population scale. I believe the economists have something analogous to say about individual self-interest and the best interests of society vis-a-vis capitalism, but I'm sure they can speak for themselves much better than I could on their behalf.
So - back to my own point of view, which is all that this is, and yes I am aware that the plural of anecdote is not data. Nonetheless, I doubt I'm alone.
Regards,
~Trinity '91
7:27 - I don't consider that all too high either, but then again my State is 28% Black.
I have met some very brilliant Blacks in my time, so I tend to take IQ one person at a time. I do not subscribe to racial determinations for IQ, but instead see a clean slate at birth, and the environment surrounding a child as a way to measure true IQ. If you stimulate learning at an early age, chances are high your child will score well on an IQ test. Race means nothing to me, environment everything.
Thus, I would be interested to see what effect being a child raised in poverty in a ghetto has as compared to a child born in a stable, upper middle class household with both parents present, and Mom probably at home. Both may be Black, but the chances are extrememly high that the child born into a stable, loving and stimulating environment will be smarter than the kid who was raised in poverty.
Call me old school, but to me, we are all God's children.
As for the Bar Exam, this has been analyzed with bar passing rates rising.
http://www.floridabar.org/DIVCOM/JN/JNNews01.nsf/76d28aa8f2ee03e185256aa9005d8d9a/cbcc553ed792d19b8525723300539a8f?OpenDocument
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
I am not sure if I would call it conspiracy, but Esquire has a point about the disadvantage of being male in the school environment. I have sons and daughters...and I had to do battle starting in 1st-2nd through 5th for each boy. My sons are perfectly normal boys...and I was NOT going to let a teacher insist I drug them. I spent many nights helping with homework - they would recite times tables while jogging in place or tossing a football over and over again. Sitting still was not an option. It all smoothed out around sixth. A couple of understanding teachers (boy moms) along the way made it possible for my boys to get through their "dynamic" phase and still enjoy school. Others may not be so fortunate.
The NAACP and men like Gatewood do little to advance the Black quest for equality. Rather they continue to demand a free ride in the truest economic and social sense. The problem is that future generations continue to be unprepared to accept the responsibilities associated with freedom and capitalism. As a society it's time to stop empowering these people with government programs, handouts and preferential treatment. The NAACP needs to hear a different message.
Im - You're a good Mom, that's what got them through. You stood up for them, you worked with them.
This is not the norm, unfortunately. If a school says a kid needs drugs, a parent will normally comply with the school's wishes.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
Esquire, IQ all environment?
no one believes this in scientific community
Head Start didn't work--
As to meeting "brilliant blacks"--where are they?
Think about it.
7:33 PM
Ditto here.
BA,
Please tell VIM we're all asking about her and to please hurry and get well. We need her back on here!
Observer
Trinity 7:33
Right on brother.
What Brodhead did, and didn't do, was far worse than the 88's monkey statement.
7:22
Mr. Esquire, are you alluding to the fact that a Negress runs Smith College?
~Trinity '91
7:33 PM
My friend, you understand COMPLETELY the world of academics and the liberal arts. That was one intelligent and well-put post. I especially liked you points made regarding "cultural anthropology."
Md Esq off-topic ?
How can the NC SBI lab not find any DNA evidence from FA that they tested and yet Meehan did? Is NC this lacking in funds or backward in testing DNA samples or did they simply withold exculpatory evidence to help Nifong's hoax?
So, anyone want to chuck the lacrosse ball around?
dl
8:34 - No, I'm alluding to the fact that Smith College is filled with femi-nazi freak man-haters. Holloway may be too rabid even for them.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
8:40 - My understanding is that the Meehan test of DNA was more sensitive than the one provided by NC. I believe it was a Mitochondrial DNA Test.
The reason NC does not do them is because they are expensive to perform. That's not unusual.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
8:40pm says tks MD Esq.
I suspect this requires an essay rather than a post. Some background: I am a white northener in his 60's. I grew up in a society where blacks were disadvantaged and many whites, including some in my own family, were prejudiced against them.
But my view, to which I still cling, is that race is NOT SUPPOSED to matter. That obviously is a normative prescription, not a positive desecription.
What, I fear, the Duke case is an examplar of is that decisions on the basis of race are now commonly accepted among (I will not claim typically accepted by) blacks and are being justified by whole segments of the bien-pensant academic community.
In other words, Duke and the NAACP are the modern day equivalents of Senator Bilbo. To them race matters morally. I refuse to accept that; Bilbo's claims of white intellectual and moral superiority are no more offensive than the modern-day claim of black moral superiority. And I find the academics among those espousing this offensive view far more guilty because they have betrayed the only basis on which white "superiority" is not as plausible as "black" superiority. Either race matters or it does not not.
JeffM
Some very good studies have shown that affirmative action in college admissions is harmful to individual blacks because of the mismatch it creates between the student and the institution. This mismatch runs the gamut of institutions and produces lower grades and higher drop out rates among the minority student population. It is also hard on self confidence. When a student who would have done well at Ohio State goes to Michigan because of affirmative action, he/she is set up for failure.
Elite universities like Duke play the AA game to look enlightened and to avoid charges of racism. Student welfare is not a factor.
See what affirmative action has brought us
esq 7:46PM,
We are all God's Children, none of us has identical gifts.
Pygmies are short. Watussi are tall. And Africans are more likely to have sickle cell.
To think that smarts might not attach to a group in a similar way is not reasonable.
Treat each as an individual. That is the ticket.
Trinity '91 at 7:33pm --
Thanks for your thoughtful essay on alumni contributions.
More than once in the past nine months, I've had occasion to think, 'there but for the grace of God go I (and my alma mater).' The Hoax's Perfect Storm circumstances were peculiar to Duke, but the underlying pathologies are, alas, shared by many of higher education's 'prestige brands.' If conditions were right, could I see a schadenfreude-laced Listening Statement coming from the Hard Left of my college's faculty? Yep.
C4 8:40PM,
You are right about blacks wanting to run their own show.
However, the quota thing was definitely a point of friction in '68.
And as you point it is an American disgrace that it was the Communists (for their own reasons - to discredit America) who championed racial equality.
The split between Jews and blacks did not result from a weakening of Jewish support for a color‑blind society. It stemmed rather from changes within the civil rights community. While Jews continued to champion the principle of merit, black leaders insisted on affirmative action to redress past grievances.
In practice, affirmative action meant racial discrimination on behalf of blacks and other aggrieved minorities. Affirmative action evoked among Jews memories of the quotas that had limited their economic and educational opportunities in Europe and in the United States prior to 1945.
From: My Jewish Learning
Simon: I do treat each person as an individual. Because of that, though I know the works of Bell Curve as well, I tend not to emphasize these studies in daily life. I expect all to meet the same standards.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
What is affirmative action?
Government-enforced fascism to reinforce the illusion that everyone is equal.
How did Duke's affirmative action policies affect the hoax?
Without race norming ("affirmative action"), the following would never have occurred:
1. no stupid black professors to coerce white lefties into signing a ridiculous piece of shit
2. because of #1, Brodhead would have much more demonstrative to Nifong
3. given 1) and 2), Nifong would have been more likely to be predisposed not to railroad the boys
Race norming is a cancer. It forces institutions into spending vast amounts of cash on incompetents and crappy curricula.
Roman Polanski
KC- did you know that a
T. V. Mangum was the first
president and charter member
of the N.C. NAACP?
The KC man done turned into a pukin and gome home to mama. Ah-chee-wa-wa and you do tell. 12:24 and no new post.
The NAACP has cried wolf so often that I just now do not believe one word anyone from that group. When it is politics over common sense, truth and fair-play, and their choice is politics I no longer care that they cry wolf.
I am betting that I am well in the majority
Roman, you need to teach some of these Lefty Liberals a lesson. They are Lefty-come-latelies to the AA game in this country.
The funniest thing has been to watch them squirm as all the Democrat politicians remained mute over Nifong's illegal deeds.
All Liberals and all the black Liberal parasites who do harm to others and live like bums should be put into a camp together somewhere.
Get them away from normal, fair, and decent people.
Esquire might be one of the most deluded on this board. He should post less and think more. Methinks he thinks his BS works. It didn't work on FODU and that's why they all had to come over here.
Thanks can be given for Professor Johnson and the other enlightened websites who have taken on these Liberal haters and excuse-makers.
Anon 1:51PM
If you'll stop baying at the moon your head might clear. It should then become obvious that you're not exactly among the Marxists, the Feminists, the Hard Left, etc., so you might as well stop screaming at them: they can't hear you.
As for advocating all the "bums" "should be put into a camp together somewhere" well, it would be great if you'd take your neo-fascism elsewhere. In case it escaped your attention, there's quite enough racial resentment in this sorry scandal. Pointing out NAACP hypocrisy is one thing, and there are plenty of uncomfortable truths to be shared about the professional academic excuse-mongers, but this dialing up of the race-hate is counter-productive.
Duke 91
1:51 - To a fool, everyone else appears foolish. Consistency in application would behoove you well.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
6:02pm Esquire---Please do yourself a favor and refrain from such effeminate jargon. That's the thing about some of you guys who spend your time 24/7 on the computer.
You couldn't make out in a whorehouse with a platinum credit card. Which is why you talk all the time instead of doing.
Get a life, Bozo. You act too much like a girl.
9:07 - The use of language is God's greatest gift to humanity. Don't blame me becauase of your own mental failings. It is a pity that the ignorant always seem to fall back on a physical altercation, while the intelligent always seem to be standing at the end of them.
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
11:50pm--
Listen dolt. There you go again. Dramatizing everything like a wuss. No one is interested in physical altercation. Are you a nut?
Your problem is that you need to invent a way out of reality. I pointed out that you talk all the time. Or rather you post all the time. If you would put some of that jargon to use in the real world, you'd be better off.
No one mentioned physical altercation but you. Maybe Wahneema mugged you with one of her metaphors.
1:53 - So THAT'S why they call it dope. I always wondered.
Do you have the munchies now?
-Esquire-
-Maryland-
To 8:35pm--
There have been many studies in the recent past which prove that most of the time harworking white students from poor families do better than black middle and upper-middle, even upper class blacks when tested.
Some of this may be due to emphasis on academics in the home. No one knows for sure. These were black students whose parents were professionals. Yet they scored lower than white students from disadvantaged families.
It isn't difficult to imagine how warped a kid would be growing up in Karla Holloway's household. All the kid would know about would be imagined victimhood at every turn.
I hate to say it but the very things we dare not say about this issue are perhaps closer to the truth.
Esquire, I have the munchies for you, sexy!
2:50am--Make that "hardworking". Damed those typos.
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