In Monday’s Chronicle, Group of 88 stalwart William Chafe made a startling claim: “Bloggers who have targeted the ‘Group of 88’,” said he, were guilty of “sending us e-mails and making phone calls wishing our deaths and calling us ‘Jew b-’ and ‘n-b-’.”
Since Chafe cited no evidence to substantiate his allegation, I e-mailed him, noting that the following bloggers who have targeted the Group of 88—Bill Anderson, Michael Gustafson, and La Shawn Barber, Liestoppers, Friends of Duke, Johnsville News, Lead and Gold, Betsy’s Page, Crystal Mess, and John in
Chafe replied, supplying the “evidence” for his assertion: “There were repeated phone calls and e-mail messages. I never claimed they were from you, but they were concerted.”Chafe’s “evidence,” then, that any of these calls or e-mail messages came from “bloggers who have targeted the ‘Group of 88’”? None. Instead, it appears, he’s embraced a conspiracy theory that various e-mails and phone calls Group members received were “concerted” by a party or parties unknown.
At this stage, based on his conduct throughout this case, why should anyone be surprised?
It would be nice to see some of these people hauled into court on defamation or something and watch them squirm in a court of law
Perhaps you simply misread Chafe's highly nuanced statement.
When he said, "Bloggers who have targeted the ‘Group of 88’ are guilty of sending us e-mails and making phone calls wishing our deaths,” he wasn't referring to literal bloggers, he was merely underscoring the appalling dynamics of race and power in this country.
Uh oh. Does my slightly mocking tone mean I'm a blog hooligan now too?
Chafe is a dope. Sadly, he doesn't realize it.
I'm not one who's real big on the prospects for civil litigation against Duke or its emplyees, but if such a lawsuit did proceed, Chafe could be counted upon to dig himself (and Duke) into a bigger hole at every turn.
Jen, if you're a blog hooligan, then so is Fred Thompson.
I love Chafe's "There were repeated phone calls and e-mail messages. I never claimed they were from you, but they were concerted." The fun part about conspiracy theories is that the proponents can claim that the lack of evidence is proof that a conspiracy exists.
It is my contention that we very well could see another Reichstag Fire Hoax at Duke, this time with fake emails. Granted, there are nut cases out there who will send threatening emails, but given the track record of many Duke profs, I would have to say that there was some element of a hoax.
Remember the on-line poll for Seligmann and Finnerty? It had to be shut down because hundreds of "no" votes were coming from two faculty computers. Hmmmm. Another hoax?
Phone records can be traced, and e-mails tracked. It might be difficult, but it can be done. So if Chafe really has a claim, why isn't he pursuing it rather than blaming on the bliogs? IMO the blogs, especially KC and FODU were a major reason the LAX Three were set free.
Ask him to forward the messages to you. Is there any legal basis for his not doing so? Surely there is no reason to protect the anonymity of people who make threats. Ask him to forward the messages, KC.
Don't forget that blog hooligans got their syllabys scrutinized. As a part of larger meta-narrative in the context of race, gender and class this is another crime (so it is more than approriate that gang88 supporters in Capitol Hill are pushing various hate crime/equality/universal speech code bills that put end to this kind of campaign). Gang88 members are truly the real victims of the Duke hoax.
An overview of the actions of the 88 and similar groups, as well as many other hyper-liberal activists (and some conservative activists also) has convinced me of this: as people leave traditional religions, they have to replace them with other faith-based motivations to provide themselves with meaning in their lives. For many, "Social Justice" has become just such a religion (or cult).
As such, Reverend Chafe, Elder of the Church of Post-Modernism, does not understand your criticisms any more than the Pope would understand a logical attack on the axioms of the Catholic faith. True believers ignore logic and often feel justified in stepping outside the rules of society in order to defend and promulgate the faith. His only obligation is to preach to and defend his flock, which he is doing admirably. As well-meaning as he may be, he is simply not capable of entertaining the idea that he and his religion are flawed.
This simple observation, methinks, explains much of what appears to be the irrational and - from my viewpoint - immoral actions of many of the protagonists in this case. Religion is rarely rational.
As long as the donations keep coming into the coffers of liberal academia, that church will flourish, spread, and proselytize to their heart's content. Criticism by heretics - "blog hooligans" and others - have been and will remain a minor, meaningless annoyance.
Methinks Chafe is merely renewing his victimhood credentials.
You really can’t argue with Chafe, or Levicy since they ignore things like evidence, logic, and precision. Luckily I’m in a position where I can ignore them but I have sympathy for those whom they have power and influence over.
just another case of the alleged enablers claiming to be VICTIMS...
CHAFE signs the manifesto and turns vigilantes loose with statements LIKE DONT WAIT FOR THE FACTS ...
and then they complain when there are reactions to their own meanness and lack of legal probity
chafe knpws that broadrot is there to protect him...what would be interesting is any emails HE SENT that attack the players beyond the manifesto he signed
he hasnt apologized...he wont apologize...he needs to be made to apologize...he wants to sweep this under the rug like all cowards who run from the truth...
let him give us the url for his PHD...so we can investigate its authenticity
We might see the usual fake emails, false letters and perhaps even a staged hateful spray painting from the left. That's how they work. I don't think we will get treated to a "Morton Downey" type of show (a fake physical assault), unless we have some real attention-starved leftists out there on campus trying to gain public sympathy to their lost cause.
As for lawsuits, the families should stick to recovering compensatory damages. The hospital, County, and perhaps Nifong can yield up the compensation. Given what we know about obvious incompetence and wrong-doing, the hospital and County insurance-provider will settle when the time comes, rather than face a full-blown national embarassment and the risk and expense of fighting what could easily be an eight-figure award.
The pursuit of punitive damages is a waste of time, unless one is willing to spend a lot of money and time just to get payback and some sense of satisfaction from watching a lawyer work over some of these rats. The good people who write here and are outraged at the known scoundrels in this case, need to realize that the law and justice are two different things. Many of the rats and cowards, like Brodhead, Windy Murphy, Nancy Grace, etc. ad nauseum will not get the full measure of justice they so richly deserve.
"Many of the rats and cowards, like Brodhead, Windy Murphy, Nancy Grace, etc. ad nauseum will not get the full measure of justice they so richly deserve."
I believe that Time wounds all heels.
Chafe is a sick guy.
He's the one who tried to attribute his own fetishes about black women to the three accused.
To Bill Anderson--
I'm pretty sure that the post on the Chronicle website suggesting that all the Seligmann-Finnerty votes came from one or two faculty computers was itself a spoof or hoax--the post said it was from a Chronicle staffer (unnamed), but a later post, under the name of an actual, identified Chronicle staffer, said that the earlier post was not authentic. (There was, however, some dialogue in the same thread involving one poster who was, apparently, posting as multiple commenters (all against Finnerty's and Seligmann's return) from a faculty or staff computer.)
Off topic, but I see where Duke has hired a new “vice president for Durham and regional affairs” – the former president of Durham Tech. I hate to say it, but this looks like a reasonable adaptation to having to exist in Durham. There have been numerous failures, but those in the area of government relations have been spectacularly bad.
I’ve long wondered if Goattlieb and the Duke Police were engaging in a sort of good cop/bad cop, in a very dangerous way. After all, the officers working for DPD covering the area around Duke and the Duke Police would be in very close contact, as shown by Duke’s continued hiring of Goattlieb and by the Crime Stoppers history and connections.
The Duke Police could always use the threat of DPD becoming involved as a stick, and the DPD could bring in revenue from tickets without having to do much work. Of course this is exactly the sort of thing that reinforces the negative behaviors of the professionally agitated neighbors and local politicians who seek to extort money from Duke.
Duke Judicial Affairs even has a policy of allowing “evidence” collected by DPD to be admitted, regardless of how it was obtained. This creates a system where DPD can convict students of things that are not illegal but against Duke policies, based on illegally obtained evidence or unsubstantiated testimony, in an official extrajudicial system.
Then, there were the questionable DPD searches (and the subsequent appearance of the forged e-mail) that Duke allowed (or at least didn’t protest). Meanwhile, crime coming onto Duke from outside is the real problem – not the other way around. There is also the related issue of crimes that are visited on Duke students when they are off campus.
It just looks like people at Duke had no idea what they were dealing with in Durham government, in the DA’s Office, or in the DPD. Perhaps this is even true in the case of the SANE scheme running in their own hospital or the angry studies people on their own campus. And, perhaps worst of all, they seem to have a distorted view of Duke students.
On the other hand, all of the bad actors had made enough noise in the past to set those who were very much listening to them (but not to the voices of calm and reason) up to be misled. They had become very adept at distorting policies, causing funding flows to go their way, manipulating opinion, and extorting things. Appeasement is a slippery slope.
In short, the analogy someone used of a wildfire starting in the wake of years of drought is very applicable. However, the thing is that the moral equivalent of a gang of arsonists had been working to create the conditions for the wildfire disaster for many years. Add one Nofing who only considers himself and sees playing with fire as a way to get ahead.
This is the problem with no diversity of opinion – it leads to blind spots. In the case where the opinions that are attended to are so bent, it lends voice only to amoral rationalization and the eradication of objective truth and to actions based on keeping the squeaky wheels placated. Enough time in such a culture, and rational thought dies.
Speaking of culture, the CCI existed long before the events of last year – as with so many other things, these events were turned to create a pretext for furtherance of preexisting agendas. I guess this all leads me to the novel idea that perhaps Duke should get a conscience, not a lawyer. How about a VP of Conscience?
I also hate to say this but I predict Duke (University and Medical System) will settle out-of-court, probably along with Durham and the State of NC. Terms will not be disclosed. My sense is that the families will accept this, perhaps with Evans and others going after Nofing alone. I hope lessons are learned and applied, but at least Nofing will burn.
Perhap's Mr. Chafe could wri9te on other ,substantive issues such as phlogiston aand the universal ether.Those are unemcumbered by actual materiel also.
Chafe is essentially saying, "They did it because I said so."
Dear William Chafe,
I could not agree with you more that bloggers like KC Johnson have secret lives that propel them to harass you in their sleep (the "somnambulaic pests that post"). I for one want to declare my love for you right on this site.
Are you a catcher or a pitcher?
Question for the bloggers, from a Duke alum.... do I understand this correctly?
Isn't Chafe pretty much to blame for this mess, by that I mean the "dumbing down" of the faculty? Wasn't he the dean when Baker, Holloway, Lubiano were hired? And isn't the dean's decision on hiring pretty much a done deal (president rarely reverses)?
I understand Chafe is respected for his academics, but maybe HIS agenda in hiring was too political. Obviously he didn't recruit these people for their brains.
In fairness, let me say that I thought Peter Wood was an excellent professor (US history, 2 semesters, 25 years ago).
For me, the failure of the faculty to put the truth above their agendas was a big contributor to this hoax. Brodhead should have recognized and countered this misstep, and that's where he failed as president.
Sadly, Prof. Chafe is very late to the conspiracy party. Back in February a law professor blogged about the case and got comments. Did she think that it was because she wrote about a high-profile case?
"Based on the comments elicited by this post and some conversations with other bloggers, it appears that an orchestrated “opinion shaping” astroturfing campaign is underway on behalf of the defendants in the “Duke Lacrosse Players” sexual assault case. "
Chafe is beginning to remind me of Michael Bellesiles, the disgraced historian and author of Arming America, who doctored sources to fit his pet theory, which resulted in the loss of his job at Emory and his credibility as authority on the Second Amendment.
Chafe is supposed to be a historian, no? If so, how is it he doesn't seem to get that sources and claims must be documented by a transparent process? Bellesiles lack of transparency led to his downfall.
Where's the transparency in Chafe's charges against the "concerted" efforts of his tormentors?
Don't dish it out if you can't take it. Perhaps, if he doesn't want people to respond to his opinions, he shouldn't state them publicly.
IF these allegations are even true, I don't get why he blames the "bloggers". KC and company have no control over the actions of others, even if those people who may or may not have harassed Chafe read the blogs covering the case.
Someone needs to stop whining and just apologize for his rush to accuse...in both instances. :)
Chafe's claim is in accordance with he main tactic of the G88, i.e. turn the perp into the victim.
Johnville has a link to a "must read" article entitled "The Truth of Interracial Rape in the United States." According to stats from the Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2005, there were over 37,000 rapes by black men of white women. In contrast, there were less than 10 rapes of black women by white men. (I wonder if Cash Michaels has a comment on this fact.)
What are the odds against this being taught in African American Studies at Duke?
According the the article as many as one-half of all rape accusations are determined to be false.
Who are the victims and who are the perpetrators in America? It is clear that Chafe is not the victim here.
Mike in Nevada
Thank Gd the "investigators" have been pointed to Chafe - He's over there. Actually, does not Chafe have a good CV - we will know soon when the "PIs" get back to us.
Excuse me, can I see the e-mails?
This is off topic but since we are talking about conspiracies, I have a question. I heard that the three accused come from the wealthiest families of the lacrosse team. Is this true? If it is true, is it a simple coincidence that it was these three who were picked out of the lineup?
If there isn't already then there should definitely be a course at Duke that explores the Salem Witch Trials. I propose that the curriculum cover the social, political and economic causes that led to that travesty. Then with a clear historical perspective, the Duke lacrosse hoax should be examined.
This course should be a continuing education requirement for all 88 professors who rushed to judgment by signing the listening statement.
I read that they came from the wealthiest Zip Codes. As to how wealthy their families are or were relative to the other players' families: I would guess that all of that information is private and that's how it should be.
To 3:19 PM
When I was younger, the play "The Crucible" was required reading for literature. With the AA studies group specializing in humanities and prejudice they must have read it; if not they ought to.
What is it with history professors (present company excluded, of course)? Chafe's reaction to criticism reminds me of Hofstadter's thinking any one who disagreed with his worldview was a paranoid yahoo.
Lest I be misunderstood, I'm not suggesting Chafe operates in the same rarefied intellectual heights as did Hofstadter.
Chafe is so cluelessly stuck in the past and is so anti-blog that he can't or won't or just doesn't distinguish between "Bloggers = those people who host a weblog" and "flamers and other websurfers = people who post comments (many, anonymously) on various weblogs".
What a disappointment he continues to be.
Somebody yelled "Hey Cracker" at me when I drove though Durham this morning.
I felt very threatened and I am certain that it came from a member of the G88.
It is obvious that the G88 has a coordinated plan for manning the intersection to spew their hateful threats.
I'm a white male, and I have an enormous IQ (given my disability)--85. I've tried to gain admission to Duke, but no one wants me. I consider this to be discrimination against white men.
Yet I see you have an entire department devoted to unintelligent black people.
So Billy--this is it: I was wondering if you and I could create a special niche for people like me at Duke.
Billy, I so desperately want to be included in Duke's community.
Why should it be that only stupid blacks get into law school, and get those swell sinecures.
Billy, it's all about white power.
The Truth of Interracial Rape in the United States
To see the real truth of the matter, let us take a look at the Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2005. (Go to the linked document, and under "Victims and Offenders" download the pdf file for 2005.)
In Table 42, entitled "Personal crimes of violence, 2005, percent distribution of single-offender victimizations, based on race of victims, by type of crime and perceived race of offender," we learn that there were 111,590 white victims and 36,620 black victims of rape or sexual assault in 2005. (The number of rapes is not distinguished from those of sexual assaults; it is maddening that sexual assault, an ill-defined category that covers various types of criminal acts ranging from penetration to inappropriate touching, is conflated with the more specific crime of rape.) In the 111,590 cases in which the victim of rape or sexual assault was white, 44.5 percent of the offenders were white, and 33.6 percent of the offenders were black. In the 36,620 cases in which the victim of rape or sexual assault was black, 100 percent of the offenders were black, and 0.0 percent of the offenders were white. The table explains that 0.0 percent means that there were under 10 incidents nationally.
The table does not gives statistics for Hispanic victims and offenders. But the bottom line on interracial white/black and black/white rape is clear:
In the United States in 2005, 37,460 white females were sexually assaulted or raped by a black man, while between zero and ten black females were sexually assaulted or raped by a white man.
What this means is that every day in the United States, over one hundred white women are raped or sexually assaulted by a black man.
The Department of Justice statistics refer, of course, to verified reports. According to the Wikipedia article on rape, as many as half of all rape charges nationally are determined by police and prosecutors to be false:
Linda Fairstein, former head of the New York County District Attorney's Sex Crimes Unit, noted, "There are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen.... It's my job to bring justice to the man who has been falsely accused by a woman who has a grudge against him, just as it's my job to prosecute the real thing."
No wonder there was such absolute belief in the guilt of the Duke students among the leading sectors of liberal America. A drug-addled, half-deranged, promiscuous black stripper accused three young white men of raping her. There are virtually zero rapes of black women by white men in the United States, and half of all rape charges against specific individuals turn out to be false. But in the gnostic, inverted world of liberal demonology, the white students had to be guilty.
I'm not asking to see the families tax returns, I'm simply saying it is strange that the Duke 3 are from the wealthiest zip codes or are the wealthiest period. It is either a selection miracle or an indication that the plan all along was to obtain a fat settlement. I'm sure Nifong wishes they settled.
Speaking of culture, the CCI existed long before the events of last year – as with so many other things, these events were turned to create a pretext for furtherance of preexisting agendas.
Maybe I missed something, but I thought the CCI committee was appointed by Pres. Brodhead last spring, explicitly in response to the lacrosse situation and related fol-de-rol. Is that not correct?
It was mentioned in a comment that CGM may have googled their names and picked the expensive zipcodes (along with her mother travelling to FL to meet with a civil suit lawyer)
The all-knowing and most venerable Professor Grant Farred gave a lection on Monday at Williams. His notes include the topic of:
"The denigration of black men and women, with black women especially vulnerable to the appetites of misogynistic white men."
In light of the fact that the incidence of white on black rape in America is virtually ZERO, and the incidence of black on white rape is atronomically disproportionate, how do these men get away with such intellectual dishonesty?
Are there no students with the gumption to challenge their lies? Parents pay $180,000 for an education which subjects their sons and daughters to such tripe?
Mike in Nevada
re black-on-white rape statistics
If you're an attractive white women in NYC, you're also harassed by both black males and females.
There is indeed a valid concept called "race."
It was mentioned in a comment that CGM may have googled their names and picked the
I really doubt Magnum was intelligent enough to do that. This would have required computer skills, eye-hand coordination, intelligence to understand the meaning of zip codes etc. This goes beyond Magnum. Maybe one of her customers (from DPD, Duke Angry Studies?) couched her to pick the right guys.
The conspiracy folk are desperate for evidence of their theorys. People thought Rosie was crazy with her "when did you ever hear of steel melting?"
If it is true that the players were in the 3 most affluent zip codes (which I doubt) the odds against that occuring randomly would be astounding. Of course it would be easy to determine if that were the case.
The source of your choice of 85 as your hypothetical IQ is blatantly transparent.
Good Job Dude!
One of the biggest realizations (aside from the gross abuses of the legal system) that emerged for me from the Duke lacrosse false prosecution is the extent that a far left-wing agenda has seized academia.
I graduated from a distinguished women's college in 1980 and stayed away from certain departments such as the government dep't because even back then there was a decidedly liberal bias. Your paper either reflected the political bent of the professor or your grade suffered accordingly. But not all of the humanities were gripped by such a one dimensional mania. It frightens me for my fast approaching college age son that higher education is a vastly different experience than I had.
I ask KC: Is there any moderate voice in a US humanities department? Or does one encourage the college pursuit of math and sciences to escape the dogma of reverse racists?
"At this stage, based on his conduct throughout this case, why should anyone be surprised?"
Indeed...and why should anyone believe him?! Zero credibility, that's what he and the others now have...their reasoning for the pathetic "listening ad" changed nearly as often as Crystal's story of gang rape changed...just a disgraceful performance from Chafe...he ought to be ashamed, if he had any shame.
The specific CCI commitee that issued the recent report was empaneled after last March, but there are many prior examples of where this adgenda and this specifc term have come up prior to this point (in the context of Duke). Virtually every report on anything that could concievably be tied to this leading up to last March uses the term "Campus Culture", from those on academic integrity, to the stategic plan, to targeted hiring progams, and on, and on...
The Baldwin Scholars Program at Duke University began during the 2004/2005 academic year. The Program aims to empower women to change Duke's campus culture and the world beyond. It is named for Alice M. Baldwin, the first dean of Duke University Woman's College.
Academic Integrity and Duke’s Campus Culture: A Final Note
The 2005 surveys provided encouraging news by revealing that we are making progress on many fronts in highlighting academic integrity and in helping students make appropriate ethical choices. Although we can do even better, and, with attention, will do even better, we should be proud to know that we are taking strides in building a culture of academic integrity.
It is important not to lose sight of the fact that, beyond its specific findings on Duke’s rates of cheating and plagiarism, these surveys prompt us to address deeper issues of teaching, learning, and campus culture.
[A Spring 2005 "House Course": Greeks, Alcohol and Campus Culture
Essentially, there was an already formed community of activists who were looking to forward an adgenda at any and every opportunity. As soon as they got word of the allegations, they were off and running.
Not allowing for overlaps I think it would be
which is 1 : 46!/6 - a number much greater than all the elementary particles in the universe.
Maybe someone in G88 can correct me if I am wrong.
Another Group of 88 Meta-narrative no doubt. You see KC, even if the harassing e-mails and phone calls didn't really happen, we should believe what Chafe says because of the terrible history of racial domination and discrimination against "studies" professors by bloggers throughout much of the 21st century.
Actually I made an error in the combinatorial assumptions but, without getting into detail, the odds are against it big time.
Look, I don't want to be seen as defending Chafe because he doesn't deserve it but I'm not sure that this debate really isn't being triggered by the fact that Chafe doesn't actually know what a "blogger" is. KC (God bless him) assumes that Chafe does know what a blogger is by limiting the analysis to himself and the other bloggers that we know and love. In looking at Chafe's response, I would respectfully suggest that he thinks that anyone who reads the internet and sends an email is a "blogger." For those of you familiar with Bobby Bowden at FSU, he recently called the internet the "ebays." Bowden and Chafe look about the same age.
Have your son take the right courses. It's as simple as that. Even Princeton brags about its AAAS dept, with that numskull Cornel West affirmatively dubbed university professor.
Liberal--even radical--professors are fine, provided they are teaching something worthwhile. Noam Chomsky is a political goofball, but that fact shouldn't prevent your son from taking Chomsky's linguistics class.
blogger, poster--it's all the same shit
Darn those ebays 5:59 said...
...KC (God bless him) assumes that Chafe does know what a blogger is ...
Suppose at Duke University Ph.D. faculty member is unfamiliar with Blogs and Bloggers?
What's freaked out Chafe the diversity pimp is that AAAS is an academic nightmare, and he can't defend it.
It's all rather pathetic.
To 5:47.....My oldest daughter went to Duke and graduated a few years ago. English and History major. Actually had a couple of the Group of 88. But she left for college firm in her convictions and the convictions and values of her family, with a strong BS sensor. She loved Duke, got a great education and was able to filter through the liberal BS. All kids should be sent to college prepared for the realities of higher ed (academic, social, etc.). But we also told her that we would not pay tuition for ANY classes in Women's Studies or AAStudies. Too much other great stuff to learn. Second child currently at Duke is math and science. Far less BS in those subjects but have to be careful with the required stuff. That's just life in higher ed today. Educate your kids about it before they leave home. If they have a moral and intellectual backbone, they will thrive!!
1:02 Comparing the goodness of religion and ones individual drive to higher and noble ends vs.the evil of statist class, gender, race pap failed collectivism is way off.
One strives for individual goodness and the other does not.
You have described a pragmatic approach which all of us have learned to be effective for succeeding in college. However, the problem with this approach is that it is morally bankrupt.
If the student accepts BS in/BS out, then fine, he gets the the grade he wants. However, BS in/Truth out results in failure.
Can you not remember writing a paper, the premise for which you had absolutely no conviction? How did that dishonesty make you feel? What kind of lesson is this for young people?
2:16 inre: Peter Woods...he is a part of the problem...
- I won’t go as far as saying the loopy stuff being taught is throwing gas on the fire. The Gang of 88 did that, this then is more akin to placing the logs. This is the pap that, in my opinion, sets the framework for tragic events such as this one.
Race, gender, and class warfare apologists like to add and change meaning. Is there more to a painting or do certain people divine text from images that don’t exist to serve collective political ends?
I have no idea of Dr. Wood’s involvement one way or the other with recent events at Duke. But I do find the following critique endemic to the larger problem(s) associated with race, class welfare, and gender studies b.s. being jammed down students throats. This approach sure isn’t solving any problems…it’s time for reform, on every campus. The effort to drive race politics isn’t limited to rape trials…
The Gulf Stream, Winslow Homer
Winslow Homer’s own words:
“You ask me for a full description of my Picture of the “Gulf Stream” – I regret very much that I have painted a picture that requires any description – The subject of this picture is comprised in its title…I have crossed the Gulf Stream ten times & I should know something about it. The boat & shark are outside matters of little consequence. They have been blown out to sea by a hurricane…” – Winslow Homer, a reply to a request to explain the painting “Gulf Stream”
Duke Professor’s book reviewed (Amazon):
“In “Waiting in Limbo; A Reconsideration of Winslow Homer’s The Gulf Steam” Peter Woods, ties the painting to race and slavery and colonialism. “Perhaps no other American painting is at once so familiar and so little understood as Winslow Homer’s The Gulf Stream (1899). For more than a century, scholars have praised the artist and yet puzzled over this harrowing scene of a black man adrift in the open sea, in a derelict boat surrounded by sharks. Critical commentary, when it has departed at all from the painting’s composition and coloring, has generally viewed The Gulf Stream as a universal parable on the human condition or as an anecdotal image of a coastal storm.
There is more to this stark masterpiece, says Peter Wood, a historian and an authority on images of blacks in Homer’s work. To understand the painting in less noticed but more meaningful ways, says Wood, we must dive more deeply into Homer’s past as an artist and our own past as a nation. Looking at The Gulf Stream and the development of Homer’s social conscience in ways that traditional art history and criticism do not allow, Wood places the picture within the tumultuous legacy of slavery and colonialism at the end of the nineteenth century.
Viewed in light of such events as the Spanish American War, the emergence of Jim Crow practices in the South, and the publication of Rudyard Kipling’s epochal poem "The White Man’s Burden," The Gulf Stream takes on deeper layers of meaning. The storm on the horizon, the sharks and flying fish in the water, the sugarcane stalks protruding from the boat’s hold—-these are just some of the elements in what Wood reveals to be a richly symbolic tableau of the Black Atlantic world, linking the histories of Africa, the Caribbean, and the United States.
By examining the "present" that shaped The Gulf Stream more than a century ago, and by resurrecting half-forgotten elements of the "past" that sustain the painting’s abiding mystery and power, Wood suggests a promising way to use history to comprehend art and art to fathom history.””
2:58 Mike in Nevada. Any stats regarding three white men raping one black woman?
Meta-narrative = bull shit
6:34 is onto something, but not quite there
Good news that you refused to subsidize any AAAS or vulva studies courses.
Why don't Duke alumni take it a step further: refuse to subsidize AAAS and all other Angry Studies departments. Let blacks pay for AAAS and teach it at a hip-hop club.
vulva studies can be best taught at laundromats and tickle parties.
to Mike in Nevada re rape stats
It gets even worse for blacks when you study the motivation for rapes of white women by blacks. True, white women are more attractive than black women, so you can understand blacks' attraction. On the other hand, criminologists have discovered that interracial crime of the black-on-white variety is motivated in large part by hate.
Do the media tell you about this aspect of interracial crime? Of course not.
This is becoming absurd, but...
There was a case in my criminal law class where three white men raped a black woman who looked like CGM.
The defendants were convicted and incarcerated and their seeing eye dogs were euthanized.
Mike in Nevada
Brant Jones 4:58 said...
...I'm simply saying it is strange that the Duke 3 are from the wealthiest zip codes or are the wealthiest period. It is either a selection miracle or an indication that the plan all along was to obtain a fat settlement.
This has been covered a number of times and is probably one of the reasons that many people are staying around to watch this case until the end.
Search this Blog with the search string ...Zip Code. KC has written about this before.
The selection was no miracle and in my opinion, Precious did not look up the Zip Codes.
She was coached by people who knew the guys and knew all about where their parents live.
from the outset, the idea that sons of wealthy white people would expose their careers to destruction by raping a negro woman defies logic
in any major city, anywhere in the nation, for a lot less than what they paid these strippers, one can get all the sexual intercourse from minorities are bargain basement prices
additionally who in his right mind would expose his life to AIDS or some other sexual disease when he has 600+ SATS and came to duke to be educated to win economically socially and ethically
the statistics are overwhelming proof that intelligent men know the facts of life about black women who have 75% estimates of all their children out of wedlock
the rush to judgement shows how BIASED the group of 88 is, what a terrible historian chafe is to be so unaware of the statistical proof of why there are very few while rapes of negrow women
He deserves to be called a little bitch.
To anonymous @7:27
...and came to duke to be educated to win economically socially and ethically (sic)
Two out of three ain't bad.
7:27pm : you are a pig.
7:34 No - You have to use the word Troll - Not pig.
I seem to recall various cases where people faked hate e-mails to garner sympathy and hold a good protest on college campuses. I do not doubt this will most likely happen in this case.
Talk about asymmetrical warfare!
On the one hand, we have the 88, who use Duke as a Communist-style "re-education center". For those who resist political correction -- like the members of the lacrosse team -- no punishment is too great, including long terms of imprisonment. To the 88, as Trotsky so often said, the end justifies the means.
On the other hand, we have those who oppose the 88. These people are concerned that they might be falsely accused of ... name-calling!
The appropriate response to such accusations is not a denial but a demurrer. A big, fat "so what?"
The 88 have made it abundantly clear that they hate white people -- or at least those who have yet to be politically corrected. It is fitting that their hatred should be reciprocated.
do you think that the 88 would let me direct them in a porno pomo movie as repararions to the lacrosse team?
Okay, Wahneema, lick that lacrosse thing-a-ma-jig--tasty, ain't it
Okay, here's what I think ... and I'm sure you're all on the edge of your seats waiting to hear this .....
Regarding death threats and emails to the Group88, it's entirely possible that "some" posters on this blog are guilty.
I say this because I received an awful email on my blog on March 11 from an anonymous emailer. It was certainly not a death threat ... just obscene.
Judging from the content, the poster was personally involved in the Duke thing. He appeared very angry and drunk, and omitted words (which I filled in).
Am again reminded of the Andy Griffith epsiode where Barney and Andy attempt to soften the edges of Ernest T. Bass so he properly could court Ramona. In the end Ms. Wiley, Ramona's protector sees through the fraud and calls Ernest T. a creature.
This sets Ernest T. off and he reverts to his old ways and begin throwing rocks at windows again.
"She called me a creature."
Duke University Gang of 88 located in North Carolina.
Mayberry located in North Carolina.
Coincidence...I think not.
You hooligan bloggers called those Gang of 88 frauds creatures and now they revert to throwing rocks and skipping around like loons.
WARNING on the use of these interracial rape statistics
Mike in Nevada @ 2:58 PM said:
Johnville has a link to a "must read" article entitled "The Truth of Interracial Rape in the United States." According to stats from the Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, 2005, there were over 37,000 rapes by black men of white women. In contrast, there were less than 10 rapes of black women by white men.
I have looked at the same raw data that I think these statistics come from. (I will double-check after this posting.) Unless I'm wrong, I think these stats are incorrect. The TRUE estimated number of black-on-white rapes (not counting prison rapes) is 20,000 per year, not 37,000.
The number of white-on-black rapes is more difficult to obtain because it is a very rare crime. But I think the "less than 10" cited above comes from the fact that "less than 10" were reported in the sample. The figures I have seen for white-on-black rapes are estimates ranging from 100 to 900 a year.
As I say, I will double-check this source, but in the meanwhile I warn everyone to be cautious about citing those stats. You are safe, however in using 20,000 for yearly black-on-white rapes.
Ernest T. Bass
My apologies to the talented character actor Frank Morris. To compare Ernest T. to the leftist frauds that are the Gang of 88 was not right.
but Andy allowed Barney only "one" bullet.
I think I was right about the Interracial Rape stats linked in Johnsville. I think the government screwed up (who'da thunkit?).
Look at the gov't's rape statistics for the years 2001 to 2005. This table shows the year, the number of white victims and the percentage of black perpetrators for rape/sexual assault:
2005 111,490 33.6%
2004 139,900 8.3%
2003 131,030 15.5%
2002 134,140 13.1%
2001 183,160 17.1%
Unless the rate of black-on-white rape halved (from about 16% to about 8%) in 2004 and then quadrupled in 2005 (from 8% to 34%), then something is fishy with these numbers. If I were y'all I would use the five-year average of 2001-05, rather than citing what seems to be a bad number from one year. Or, to repeat what I said a few minutes ago, you are VERY safe in saying 20,000 annual black-on-white rapes.
Second matter, I was right about the "less than 10": It means there were less than 10 case in the sample not less than 10 total. You would be safe to use 500 as the figure for annual white-on-black rapes (I believe I've read that Hispanics are counted as "white" when they are offenders, but as "non-white" when they are victims).
yep, who'd a thunk it ...
Among other rape statistics, it's important to note also that only "ONE in FIVE" rapes are ever reported.
Professor Everett had an article in the HS on May 1st - how about an essai on that.
Hey, Georgia Girl,
"only a fraction of the actual are ever reported" So, there are 100,000 to 150,000 actual rapes each year?
Sorry, but I have a real problem with that. Only a fraction of the child abuse cases are reported; only one in 5 rapes is reported! Only one in seven kids report they've been molested by their priest? Only two of seven spousal abuse cases are ever reported. I think almost all of these figures are either made up, completely fabricated, or are extrapolated from some statistically insignificant occurrences, using flawed, biased methodology. Since we've been on the subject of agendas, who has a better defined agenda than the social service agencies charged with and funded to deal with these issues. Like the questionable perspective of the SANE nurse, most of the abuse/family violence/ sexual assault services are administered by women, according to guidelines and protocols designed by women. Not to undermine the real harm done to women and young people by these predatory individuals (mostly, it seems, are males), but one might consider, given all we’ve seen in just this one case, just what type of women are directing these initiatives? Married? Heterosexual? Children? Crime victims? It is clear that personal biases have a truly distorting effect on society’s perception of what is actually occurring; and it is impractical to believe virtually any so-called statistics about such crimes. I want people that have a healthy, balanced, honest, fair (and to my way of thinking, “normal”) view of society in general, and men in particular, directing how our social service resources are spent. Tara, Wendy Murphy, Waheena, and some of the Gang of 88 do not meet my criteria. Sorry, but that's my view from the bridge.
Please everyone stop misinterpreting and mischaracterizing poor Professor Chafe. After all, what he says and does are not important. Just as things like innocence, guilt, truth, and due process are irrelevent.
It's all part of the wonderful meta-narrative dont cha know?
...Chafe’s “evidence,” then, that any of these calls or e-mail messages came from “bloggers who have targeted the ‘Group of 88’”? None. Instead, it appears, he’s embraced a conspiracy theory that various e-mails and phone calls Group members received were “concerted” by a party or parties unknown.
They are called Americans who are 'concerted' by the thought of freedom of thought and freedom of expression.
The great un-washed as it were...who want to right a wrong.
This must be his first experience with real people.
Nice catch by Beckett. And the Texas Professor, too. I was wondering if anyone would see the possible parallel to Michael Bellesiles. The comparison of Chafe and the G88 to Bellesiles is interesting. Bellesiles wrote a partisan work that was based on 'facts' he made up from thin air, and when people tried to locate them in the archives he cited, the could not be found. He claimed to be the victim of a right wing conspiracy which included death threats and an attempt to burn his office door. When someone called the various police departments which would have jursidiction, they found that Mr. Bellesiles had never called in to complain about death threats, nor had there been a fire involving his office door, according to facilities people and police at Emory University. I think the thing to do is see if the police or Duke University can confirm that death threats are being made against any of their politically active faculty. If not, then I'd say Mr. Chafe is skating close to Bellesiles' practice of fabricating material.
Look folks, it really is every bit as bad in academica as you are seeing at Duke, if not worse. There are a very small number of honorable professors like KC Johnson and Bill Anderson. But they are offset by a much larger group of militant ideologues, who can bully the majority of faculty into submission. That's why these absurd situations like the G88's advertisement and potbanger's march are able to drive university policy. The administrators are terrified of the intellectual thugs, and they cave instead of standing up to them.
Most of the identity studies have a problem with scholarship. There are some solid scholars, but, many are like Ward Churchill, writing politically 'usable history' that has little or no basis in fact, but supports a progressive political agenda. Propaganda instead of scholarship. Too many universities have been complicit in this problem, hiring people without adequate proven ability but supposedly of a desired ethnicity or gender (see Ward Churchill), and then tenuring them for shoddy work that should not have even been accepted in high school. Or for non delivered publications like some of the G88.
The Duke Hoax was pushed by an ideologically motivated group of faculty who apparently do not believe in constitutional democracy, or the concept of innocent until proven guilty. Mr. Chafe is missing the point. He and the G88 have been functiong in that fine old tradition of the lynch mob, executing their victim first, and not bothering with a trial unless they have to. He should retire. Anyone who thinks the three innocent men resemble the goons who lynched anyone appears to be non compos mentis.
here is a great new story about BROADROT and the GANG OF 88 liberal wacko anti white socialist losers
Former lacrosse coach lashes out at Duke officials
By Jim Nesbitt, Staff Writer
In an upcoming book about the Duke lacrosse rape scandal, former coach Mike Pressler accuses university officials of caving to pressure from intense media scrutiny and protesters both within and outside of the school.
Pressler says university officials initially promised to stand by his team following the party where Crystal Gail Mangum said she was gang raped in March 2006. Instead, Pressler said, he was forced to resign and university President Richard Brodhead suspended the season.
Those steps on April 5, 2006, helped harden public opinion that Mangum�s rape allegations were true almost a year before Attorney General Roy Cooper dismissed sex offense charges against three players, declared them innocent and described the escort service dancer as an unreliable witness.
In one passage, Pressler, now the head lacrosse coach at Bryant University in Smithfield, R.I., also rues the damage to his own reputation after 16 years as Duke�s coach: ��Until a year ago,� Mike Pressler lamented in early 2007, �if you looked my name up you found stories about good lacrosse. Now, if you Google the words �Mike Pressler,� �Duke,� and �rape� you'll come up with more than one hundred thousand hits. Those stories will be out there forever.��
Entitled �It�s Not About the Truth: The Untold Story of the Duke Lacrosse Case and the Lives It Shattered,� the book marks Pressler�s first extensive comments about the scandal and offers his account of the meetings between parents, team members and university officials that took place before his resignation. It is one of two books on the Duke lacrosse case that will go on sale June 12, with a third scheduled for release in September.
Written by Don Yaeger, the book is comprehensive overview of the case, quoting dozens of key characters in the real-life drama. It is not a first-person account by the former Duke lacrosse coach, who gets a partial credit under Yaeger�s name on the cover: �with Mike Pressler.�
In another passage, Pressler describes an early-morning meeting with Duke Athletic Director Joe Alleva, who tells the coach the team�s season will be canceled.
...Joe, you told the players and the parents you believed their story, you believed in them, you believed that they were telling the truth.� �Alleva look right at me and made the statement I�ll never forget as long as I live: �It�s not about the truth anymore,� he said.�
Duke spokesman John Burness said today that Brodhead and other university officials did not succumb to public pressure.
The university made its decisions at the time based on what it believed was in the best interest of the university and everyone involved,� he said. �We were relying on the legal system to ultimately get to the truth, and that�s what ultimately happened with the Attorney General�s actions.�
Georgia Girl 10:20 said...
...Among other rape statistics, it's important to note also that only "ONE in FIVE" rapes are ever reported.
Now Georgia Girl, when you are I were young pups we were all taught the 1:5 ratio you mentioned.
Don't you think it might be a good idea to give the activists of the last three decades at least some credit for changing that number?
All over the nation now we have women and men wearing out a path to the SANE nurse...claiming they are raped.
William Chafe needs for everyone to believe that NO progress has been made in 30 or 40 years.
When is the last time you checked those numbers? We could never prove that ratio thirty years ago and I doubt that we can today, either.
Orson Buggeigh 11:03 said...
...The Duke Hoax was pushed by an ideologically motivated group of faculty who apparently do not believe in constitutional democracy, or the concept of innocent until proven guilty.
I said something similar to this at dinner tonight with a member of the faculty of the University of St. Thomas here in Houston.
I did not say it all that well but the professor got the point.
He looked at me with a big smile and said that his university would love to have those Duke students ...and they won't have to worry about the G88...because we can't afford to employ professors with no students majoring in what they have to teach :-)
Readers (even the conspiracy-minded Prof. Chafe) might be interested in "Wretchard's" Belmont Club post, Anti-Anti Barbarism.
--- begin quote (emphasis added) ---
Bruce Kesler at the Democracy Project has a long essay on how academia has systematically failed to provide an ethical basis for life in a world where technology, mobility and free markets have allowed the individual to attain a greater measure of autonomy than ever before. At the precise moment when each person required an inner compass to guide him through his environment, his elders have pointed him in all directions.
But rather than resulting in a world of reasoned discourse between different moral points of view, the systematic teaching of moral relativism in the classroom resulted in its precise opposite: a culture of uncritical conformity in the guise of political correctness whose members, unprepared to think for themselves became fair game to any cult leader or demagogue who care to take advantage of the milling flock of sheep. Quoting Maimon Schwarzchild, law professor at Catholic San Diego University, Kesler writes:
Our civilization’s peculiar misfortune is to be under a double assault, physically by the undercivilized from without, and psychologically by those surfeited with it from within. And these last own the classroom...
The result is a civilization in the "process of committing suicide", whose dominant ideology is anti-anti-barbarism, where the highest value is not to oppose even the greatest evil...
--- end quote ---
Wretchard is reflecting on our society's lack of preparedness in facing the disciples of barbaric ideologies. But his words also serve to illuminate the perspective that has been displayed so eloquently by Duke's Group of 88 in their defense of their Listening Statement.
Mike Pressler lamented in early 2007, "if you looked my name up you found stories about good lacrosse. Now, if you Google the words 'Mike Pressler,' 'Duke,' and 'rape' you'll come up with more than one hundred thousand hits. Those stories will be out there forever".
While admittedly only a quasi-regular reader of DIW, it sure seems to me that Dr. Johnson has seriously underreported the damage done to Coach Pressler.
“Bloggers who have targeted the ‘Group of 88’,” said he, were guilty of “sending us e-mails and making phone calls wishing our deaths and calling us ‘Jew b-’ and ‘n-b-’.”
Ok, so pretend for a moment that Chafe is telling the truth, which he is no more capable of doing than CGM, but just pretend...
First, these are just words in an email, that's why there's a delete button.
Second, why are death wishes and nasty words only harmful when they're directed at Chafe & the G88? Does Chafe remember the threats the Duke Lax team received and the support the G88 gave to the protesters/students who wanted Read, Colin & Dave castrated? People who live in glass houses.....
the reason these morons constantly refer to bloggers is....the blogs have wounded them professionally
10:51 Just remember you are one paycheck away from being homeless...
That's one of my favorites.
I was going to give Texas Professor a pass on his slam of R. Hofstadter until someone else jumped on the bandwagon.
If you bother to read the essay on "The Paranoid Style in American Politics," you will see that it has nothing to do with worldviews but with rhetoric and metanarratives. "In the history of the United States one finds it, for example, in the anti-Masonic movement, the nativist and anti-Catholic movement, in certain spokesmen of abolitionism who regarded the United States as being in the grip of a slaveholders’ conspiracy, in many alarmists about the Mormons, in some Greenback and Populist writers who constructed a great conspiracy of international bankers, in the exposure of a munitions makers’ conspiracy of World War I, in the popular left-wing press, in the contemporary American right wing, and on both sides of the race controversy today, among White Citizens’ Councils and Black Muslims."
Unless you want to call being opposed to conspiracy theories a "worldview," Hofstadter was not attacking worldviews different from his own. I took two classes from him, and no one was more tolerant of disagreement supported by reason and evidence. He was attacking the mindset that is now exemplified by Bush Derangement Syndrome and the metanarratives constructed by the gang of 88. In fact, the gang of 88's plea to save them from the racist, murderous bloggers is exactly the sort of nonsense that Hofstadter was saying was all too common in political discourse. (I think he erred in claiming it was peculiarly American. If you only look at American history, it is inevitable that all your examples will be American.)
I have to thank the anon who let me know that the 9/11 theorists are dubious whether steel melts. I'd offer to show them a movie of a BOF or an open hearth being tapped, but they would probably proclaim it capitalist propaganda.
Jeff M -
Good synopsis of Hofstadter's take on paranoid politics, and yes, I was not fully addressing his meaning. But your point is very well taken, that paranoid politics is not confined to one group, and conspiracy theorists come from all political persuasions.
I think your comments about Hofstadter support my point that a lot of basically decent faculty give a pass to bad scholarship and the crazies for a variety of reasons, and this allows the ideological bullies to control the university. Why did Eric Foner and the crew at Columbia fail to follow up on the criticisms of Arming America? Because they wanted to believe Bellesiles' meta narrative. Just like Chafee and the G88.
Chafe may have had some credibility as a historian, but I find his interpretation of current events increasingly problematic. Maybe his problem is that he should have retired a few years ago. What we are seeing offered by the G88 in support of their advertisement is not scholarship, but the retreat from rational thought. If these are supposed to be the best teachers on the Duke faculty, as alleged by some of the posters on various blogs, then higher education is in deep trouble.
One assumes that death threats would be a legal matter--why has not the good Professor forwarded these to the appropriate authorities? There is the whole Deb Frisch incident last year; no one should be passivly receiving death threats (unless, of course, he's makint them up out of whole cloth).
Re: threats to the Group of 88 --
I'm reminded of Carl Sagan's aphorism, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
If Chafe is charging that unknown irate individuals, many of whom are blog readers, are emailing and calling him in a disagreeable way--that strikes me as credible, and ordinary. If some proportion are anonymous and vaguely threatening, that is upsetting--and also ordinary. If a percentage of those anonymous crank emails could be seen as genuine threats, they are a matter for the Duke Police. Prominent bloggers should, and have, condemned these sorts of uncivil actions. Especially criminal ones.
On the other hand, Chafe seems to be alleging that a harass-and-threaten conspiracy of bloggers is targeting the Group of 88. These bloggers are sending (or inciting others to send?) e-mails and making (or inciting others to make?) phone calls that wish for the Group of 88's deaths and call them ‘Jew b-’ and ‘n-b-’.
Prominent bloggers critical of the Group of 88 are a small group, identified by Johnson in the body of this post. If Chafe is charging these individuals of engaging in a conspiracy against him, then he's making an Extraordinary Claim.
With no proof -- none -- on offer.
It is indeed gratifying to see that "AMAC" has posted an objective comment which does not attempt to somehow prop up detractors of KC and company.
Since I've been away for a day or two, I just discovered that a post of mine was deleted on another thread.
I also read with amusement that an "anonymous" poster asked KC to "clean it up".
Given the level of discourse and the bone-deep despicable tactics exhibited by those who would support Tara Levicy, Chafe, and the vast array of HOAX SUPPORTERS, I find it almost shocking that a post such as mine would have been too raw for such upstanding "truthtellers".
Naturally, KC complied.
Posters like "AMAC" have continually cozied up to roadkill like Cash Michaels throughout......so I suppose I should not be surprised that he would send cyberspace kisses to a troll like the illogical "dk".
My opinion is that poster "dk" is a phony troll who is here only to mitigate the truth about Levicy's unethical and hoax-promoting actions and words.
And again, the fact that Levicy is a "Vagina Monologues" fondler and that particular man-hating approach to life is her own, this is very much an issue and I have a right to say anything I wish to wage war on this kind of woman.
Let me say further that I doubt "dk" is even a man.....but if he is and he is married to a woman whose views are similar to Levicy's, then in order to remain in such a union, it would be necessary, by definition of their ideology, that he either be a eunuch.....or learn how to subjugate himself emotionally and mentally......preening in masculine form only when she, the feminist man-hating partner, allows him to do so.
Poster "dk" has come here to flame in the kind of sterile, phony, and ephemeral way that third-tier university graduates tend to do when they wish to "make a point".
Trouble is that his point is ridiculous. No reasonable person can defend Levicy's behavior. She contributed greatly to changing the opinions of the community.....making many believe in the veracity and the certainty that a rape had occurred.
Again, Levicy should have spent more time studying the physicality of a real vagina instead of becoming so enthralled with its alleged "monologue".
No Liberal pu$$y-whipped man will ever silence those of us who know the kind of damage that women can do who live their lives with a palpable, seething hatred of men.
William Chafe should be forced to provide proof of all e-mails to which he refers.
I seriously doubt that any blogger ever contacted the Duke Gang of 88 except to ask that they explain their outrageous behavior.
Since these semi-educated clowns are not accustomed to going by normal rules of society, they might have found those requests "intimidating".
I don't know about others, but I have never even thought about contacting any of those horrid creatures. I've said what I wished to say on a public newspaper forum....and I always sign my name to everything I do.
If Chafe has even one real e-mail or phone call that conveyed what he has described, he would have rushed to make it public and would certainly have given the info to KC.
He, like his fellow embarrassing 88 clowns, is worried that the entire country knows exactly how disgusting and void of real scholarship they are.
Regarding Debrah's posts ...
As always, her comments reflect a venomous hatred with extreme cynicism.
I picture her decked out in a crew cut and goggle glasses ... lips twitching just enough to show the fangs.
She emphasizes "signing her name" to everything? Truth be known, she (or he) is an "anon" of the WORSE kind! The kind who cannot be contacted.
The truth is you've come here for a long time acting like a bat outta hell with foolish Southern tales of a bygone era that sickens most people.
You spend too much time stalking Debrah. Haven't you noticed that she ignores you?
If only you had her brains.
Go on about your business and be more productive.
Thanks for making my point, lol
Why don't these two -Debra and GG have their own email address so they can exchane their inane messages and leave the rest of us alone?,
12: 22 Classy language - Many folk and obviously myself included disagree with the Levicy Original Sin Concept. In the end, Levicy assisted Manly in getting the swabs and cloths into the rape kit. The rape kit made its way to two labs and the evidence in it cleared the team of any DNA involvement. The rest is just NOISE and most of the noise is from non medical people. Have none of you ever gone to an ED and observed what was going on? If a heart attack sits around for five hours - there is cause for concern and that person is probably dead due to the non intervention of the ED team. The life threatening illness treated first, them the urgent and finally the non urgent. Crystal meets the non urgent catagory - now had she had bleeding from any source, she would move up the scale. No, I am not DKs wife - just an ED nurse.
10:18 GG and 11:40 am
For your information I'm the poster who told Georgia to move on and get a life by doing something productive. She's always posting inanities and causing trouble. She has nothing else worth offering to the discussion.
I would tell 11:40 to stop trying to make a problem which doesn't exist. Debrah ignores the crazy Georgia AARP woman. GG is the only one with a problem.
Everyone can see when they click on GG's name that the only information which comes up is a lot of dowdy lady hobbies. Nothing about her real name or personal information so she's posting anonymously while pretending not to do so.
GG, I am going to complain to K.C. Johnson about you if you continue on this course of attacking others just for kicks.
Nathan in Boston
sheesh, debrah, what would you like for me to do? ... Supply you with my SS# and a valid credit card? My "name" speaks volumns! I've nothing to hide. Yourself?
by the way ...
KC, I deserve a personally autographed book due to all the scorn and ridicule you've subjected me to on your blog (lol, you know how I tease)!
You're an idiot.
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