Friday, June 29, 2007

9-22 Transcript

Today's N&O contains an excerpt from the transcript of the September 22, 2006 court session--which Judge Smith has singled out in his order yesterday designating a hearing on possible contempt of court by Mike Nifong.

Smith: So his report [Meehan’s May 12 report] encompasses it all?

Nifong: His report encompasses ever -- because we didn’t -- they apparently think that everybody I speak to about, I talk about the facts of the case. And that’s just, that would be counterproductive. It did not happen here.

Smith: So you represent there are no other statements from Dr. Meehan?

Nifong: No other statements. No other statements made to me.

Bannon: Just so I’m clear, Mr. Nifong is representing that the facts of the case weren’t discussed in those meetings.

Nifong: That is correct. The facts of the case, other than the fact that we were seeking a, the male fraction DNA.


Anonymous said...


Under the North Carolina retirement system, local government employees become eligible for a pension—at any age—after having worked for 30 years in the system. But Nifong only had 28 years.

So, last fall, he bought back the three years for his time as a social worker in the 1970s. (He had lost the money for those years when he used the funds instead to pay for law school.) When, Brocker wondered, did Nifong decide to buy back the three years? “I believe it was sometime last year,” Nifong replied. He had decided he would do so, Nifong claimed, just after Jim Hardin left—but, when pressed, admitted that he hadn’t done so until late 2006.

In other words, as the ethics charges closed in, Nifong realized he might be out of a job and ineligible for an immediate pension. So he hurriedly bought back the years to ensure that he can start collecting tomorrow if Judge Hudson removes him from office today

Soobs said...

I believe the medical terminology for what afflicts Mike Nifong is "BIG FAT LIARHEAD."

Michael said...

He was elusive in answering the 1st question,
but he clearly lied when he said "no statements
to me" -- that was an out and out lie.

Anonymous said...

Judges Hudson and Stevens just gleefully followed along, glad that this fine outstanding DA was now Judge Smith's problem .........only in Durm

Anonymous said...

Can one of the fine bloggers on this site help me understand something that many seems to elude many and doesn't make any sense: If they didn't find any of the lacrosse players' DNA BUT they found OTHER male DNA AND she WAS raped, WHY weren't they (DA/DPD) actively looking for the REAL rapists? What am I missing?

Anonymous said...

You are missing the whole point of why Nifong should be in prison. Whether she was raped or not wasn't the point. Finding the DNA donors wasn't the point. Getting re-elected DA by framing Duke Lacrosse players and pandering to the blacks in Durham was the point.
That is the whole point of why Nifong is facing the rest of his life with civil and criminal liabilities. He found his "rapists" and wasn't going to let a little thing like innocence stand in his way.

Anonymous said...


I believe that Nifong never believed CGM was really raped. I think he wanted to appear to be the champion of the black, underprivileged community in order to secure its support in the election.

I believe he truly thought that the LAX players would either cop a plea OR that he could play this out until trial. EVEN if he lost the case, he could turn to the black community and say, "See? The white privileged males bought their freedom, but you can't blame me--I tried."

This was never really about a rape. In fact, until someone said to CGM, "Were you raped?" it didn't occur to her to claim that whe was.

Disclaimer: I am NOT an expert on all the details, so I gladly defer to anyone more knowledgeable than I.


Anonymous said...

I think he believed at first, for perhaps the first week that she was raped and that the SBI report was going to find player DNA on her, but by the time he got the report from Meehan's lab in April he knew no rape took place. He knew no rape took place when the boys were indicted.

I don't think he expected any plea bargains, he intended to either play it out hoping for Durham racists to hang the jury or he intended to drop the case at the last minute and blame the rich white laywers for intimidating Mangum.

After seeing Nifong's delusional performance at the bar hearing, I tend to think he was going to take the case to court...he never realized how stupid he appears to sane people or how easily his lies could be uncovered.

Anonymous said...

You are very correct in your assessment. I too believe he figured they would cop to misdemeanor sexual-something. After all, white boys drinking, black stripper, someone HAD to have brushed against her and they would either plea-bargain to a lesser offense, or he'd lose at trial and say "oh, well." But he never ever intended to pursue anyone except Lacrosse team members.

Anonymous said...

Everthing these rape hoaxters say sounds like what the parents in 'Charlie Brown' cartoons sound like:


At least we get to laugh at them like Snoopy would.

Anonymous said...

I think he truly is delusional (with a lot of help from a narcissism-enabler wife)because even an evil man could have found a way to back-pedal with the black community and find 100 ways to drop the case and blame someone else after he was re-elected. Then he'd have XXX time before the next election to remind them he tried to be the AA hero. Only delusion can account for the fact that he ignored help from his own kind early in the case and kept charging toward the cliff.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Cy. How's this working out for you now?

Anonymous said...

I think Nifong new there was no rape and fully intended to drop charges after the primary when he though he would run unopposed in November. But then the "Any body but Nifong" campaign started and he realized he was going to have a fight in November and couldn't drop the case. Things continued to snowball from there until we ended up where we are today. Even after he won in November I think things had become so bad by that point that he was scared of the likely fallout unless he could get it to trial. IMO.

Anonymous said...


One of the things I noticed at his ethics trial was when Nifong seemed to strongly pressure CGM to drop the charges. He spoke at length on his December(?) meeting with her. The words and tone he used at the ethics trial strongly implied he pressured her to change her mind about going forward. I don't have the transcript, but I watched that portion live. I'm a bit surprised that KC hasn't picked up on that particular bit, as to me, it was the most revealing. If he was successful in getting CGM to drop the charges then, he would have been able to spin it that she would be dragged through the mud, the poor girl, avoided the Special Prosecutor's office taking over, which would have avoided the declaration of innocence and all of the further fallout. That's not to say that he wouldn't have been in trouble with the Bar, but the AG's report and taking over wouldn't have happened, and frankly that's a huge nail in his coffin.

My take from that portion is that he pinned his hopes on her dropping the charges, because it could have been spun 180 degrees differently. I also don't think he was necessarily gunning for conviction as much as putting on a show so that he could say "Dang it, we tried our best" and drag the case out until the primary and then general elections had passed. Notice that he all but bullied her into dropping the charges AFTER the general election. At that point, she had not only served her purpose (rallied votes), but was quickly becoming a liability to be disposed of. I honestly don't think he would have been disbarred if he could have only convinced her to drop the charges then.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 11:29 said "WHY weren't they (DA/DPD) actively looking for the REAL rapists? What am I missing?" with regard to the other DNA. All they can do is compare the profiles to those on the books, and if there are no matches, all they can do is leave it in the unsolved cases database. That is what makes the "we didn't reveal the other 6 dozen DNAs found due to privacy concerns"

Bill Alexander

Anonymous said...

11:29 --

"If they didn't find any of the lacrosse players' DNA BUT they found OTHER male DNA AND she WAS raped, WHY weren't they (DA/DPD) actively looking for the REAL rapists?"

Nifong actually answered this very question (whether he answered it truthfully, of course, is a far different question...) -- he says that it never occurred to him.

bill anderson said...

The transcript and the order from Judge Smith are devastating. Look for the orange jumpsuit.

But I also predict that this will not be the last time Fong is in jail.

Anonymous said...

It's at least possible he originally thought there was a rape and then made a concerted effort to avoid finding out, or at least really thinking about, anything that might change his mind, so that he could maintain his self-delusion in which he was a crusading hero of the underdog rather than a politician cynically exploiting voters' biases and emotions. In that scenario, acknowledging that the "rape" might have been committed by people not at the party would shoot so many holes in CGM's story that it would be as good as admitting to himself there was no rape.

And if CGM was "known" to Nifong and the police, which it appears she was, at least to some extent, it would be easier for Nifong to preserve his rape delusion if he simply assumed the other DNA was related to consensual activity and therefore, from his perspective, "irrelevant."

Later on, when he has to have been aware at some level that there was no case, he fell back on incorrectly interpreting his duty as a prosecutor--to pursue a case as long as the accuser claims it happened and wants to proceed. This approach would, of course, let him claim credit for any "victory" (such as scaring defendants into pleading on lesser charges" but deny responsibility if the case was thrown out by a judge or jury.

Anonymous said...

11:29 says:

Thanks to all for your feedback! It's just so hard to believe anyone who has made it to that station in society (elected DA) could be THAT evil......... Guess I should have stayed awake in abnormal psych class!!!!! Thanks again.

Anonymous said...

Self delusion is among the most dangerous traits in anyone with power, because no fact can intrude on the belief system, making it virtually impossible to get them to change their view/actions/etc.

Not to get another round of political bickering going, but the same reasons Nifong still will not admit that NOTHING happened at the party is the same reason that Dick Cheney still will not admit there was no Hussein-Al Quaeda admit the truth of what the evidence shows makes both men not only incredibly stupid but having perpetrated a significant evil based on nothing but their own worldviews.

Mike Nifong will always say that something happened, maybe he did get the wrong guys but someone did something to Mangum in the bathroom, to admit otherwise means he was deceived by a dumb whore and then went on to purposefully railroad demonstrably innocent boys.

It is a mistake to think that this kind of activity doesn't happen every day though, our country is moving further and further away from fact based policy and toward idea-based policy on both the right and the left.

Anonymous said...

Not to get another round of political bickering going, but the same reasons Nifong still will not admit that NOTHING happened at the party is the same reason that Dick Cheney still will not admit there was no Hussein-Al Quaeda connection...

Yeah right. The last thing you want is to "get another round of political bickering going."

If you really mean what you say, then why bring up politics in the first place? I'm sure someone as intelligent as you are can think of numerous analogies to use that would not divert attention from the subject that most of the people who visit this blog are concerned about.

What Dick Cheney did or knew has nothing to do with Nifong or the LAX players.

Kindly post your political opinions where they can be viewed by people who might actually care about what you think.

Anonymous said...

Are you equating the rotted out orifices of Crystal Mangum with weapons of mass destruction?
If so, then your comparison makes some sense. Otherwise, you are stretching analogies as wide as Mangum's button hole must be right about now.

Anonymous said...

12:47, I like a lot of your analysis, but Nifong wasn't even "deceived by a dumb whore," since he [deliberately] chose to never ask her what happened.

He deluded himself with the whole concept, for political reasons, desperately WISHING it happened (like G88), and BELIEVING in his own wish -- and now, as you say, he will never give it up.

Did you see this cartoon?

Of course, he wasn't deluded enough to have a legitimate defense to lying to the Judge and perjuring himself about what he knew, and when he knew it. He's just deluded enough to be incapable of admitting it.

Anonymous said...

The point is that when you make decisions based on what you 'think' 'believe' 'want' or what is politically helpful to you...the results will always be bad.

Mike Nifong ran this case based on everything BUT the facts and evidence, he purposefully ignored anything that didn't fit his preconceived notions and when he couldn't ignore it, he suppressed it.

No justice, no peace said...

It seems to me the judges involved need to re-read some John Locke.

"...And so whoever has the legislative or supreme power of any common-wealth, is bound to govern by established standing laws, promulgated and known to the people, and not by extemporary decrees; by indifferent and upright judges, who are to decide controversies by those laws; and to employ the force of the community at home, only in the execution of such laws, or abroad to prevent or redress foreign injuries, and secure the community from inroads and invasion. And all this to be directed to no other end, but the peace, safety, and public good of the people."

Anonymous said...

Alas, it appears as though Nifong KNEW (eventually) that they were likely innocent, and pressed ahead regardless. If true, then that makes him a real moral monster, worthy of the worst that can happen to him. Judicial scapegoating to further his own petty career. No quarter should be shown to him.

Still nothing from Brodhead. No commissions, inquiries, etc. Just a deafening silence that says a great deal.

Anonymous said...

OK, just a drive-by post on my way out.

I hope KC will allow this link. It's as if Ann Coulter has been reading this blog. Everything in her column today were the same points made here about the Edwards and the "Hardball" attack.

If you read her quotes from Edwards' courtroom shenanigans, you get a flavor of the type of personality Mike Nifong has as well. So condescendingly and patronizingly typical.

Both men pretend to be saviors of all minorities of the world. And just as Edwards played out his faux tale of woe to illiterate jurors, so did Nifong play to the uneducated and uninformed in Durham when concocting this lacrosse hoax.

There are emotional patinas which draw parallels between the antics of both Nifong and Edwards and how they use black people......even as many of those being used seem to enjoy the ride......since they are served well by being constantly patronized for no good reason.

I truly hope that all this hypocrisy and bastardization of the legal system will make the average citizen begin to pay closer attention to what goes on in the future.

Off to see the wizard!


Anonymous said...



gs said...

Look it is possible that Nifong thought aape occured, when he started to make comments.

He knew there was serious problems before he indicte two players.

He know for sure that the rape was a hoax before he indicted the 3rd player.

He topped off his corruption by leaving the 3 players charged in Jan. AFter begging the FA to drop the case, his only way out.

He deserves jail.

Anonymous said...

Trying to figure out what was going on in Nifong's head is speculation. I know that the very first time I read about the DNA results the very first question I had was "why didn't he investigate where the unidentified DNA came from". The notion that the thought never occured to him is not a credible response. I can speculate about what he was thinking, but the bottom line is that no one knows, except Nifong and maybe some members of his inner circle. Maybe someday when all the litigation is over, he'll provide an honest answer.

Anonymous said...

If they didn't find any of the lacrosse players' DNA BUT they found OTHER male DNA AND she WAS raped, WHY weren't they (DA/DPD) actively looking for the REAL rapists?

No one has bought Nifong's explanation to this question. The justification Nifong gave for continuing to prosecute the LAXers was that be believed the accuser.

1) Levicy documented that the accuser was quite clear that no condoms had been used.
2) The accusers maintained she had been raped.

When no LAXer DNA turned up at all, and DNA from other males did turn up in a number of places, Nifong has a few choices:

1) He can fully believe the accuser (raped w/o condoms), drop the charges against the LAXers, and expand the search for the real culprits. (Actually Nifong wouldn't have had to drop the charges because at the time the SBI DNA results were known he had not indicted anyone.)

2) He can fully disbelieve the accuser and forego any indeictments of the LAXers.

3) He can partially believe the accuser (raped but condoms used). This is the approach Nifong used - without benefit of personally questioning her or reading the case file. But the presence of other male DNA was problematic for Nifong, so he supressed it. There wasn't a day between May 12, 2006 and December 21, 2006 that Nifong had real reason to believe the LAXers raped the accuser. And the reason he used to dismiss the rape charges on December 22, 2006 were less compelling than the reasons he knew about from the time the DNA results were returned on April 10.

gs said...

Would be nice...

AT the contempt hearing, The players lawyers should argue that if they know about the DNA, they would have asked for a dismissal of charges. The court could have dropped the case, if the court knew about the DNA.

Hence all legal bills after sept are to be paid by Nifong.

Not that it will happen.

No justice, no peace said...

The Gang of 88, Brodhead, and the abettors should consider some John Locke:

"...Despotical power is an absolute, arbitrary power one man has over another, to take away his life, whenever he pleases. This is a power, which neither nature gives, for it has made no such distinction between one man and another; nor compact can convey: for man not having such an arbitrary power over his own life, cannot give another man such a power over it; but it is the effect only of forfeiture, which the aggressor makes of his own life, when he puts himself into the state of war with another: for having quitted reason, which God hath given to be the rule betwixt man and man, and the common bond whereby human kind is united into one fellowship and society; and having renounced the way of peace which that teaches, and made use of the force of war, to compass his unjust ends upon another, where he has no right; and so revolting from his own kind to that of beasts, by making force, which is their's, to be his rule of right, he renders himself liable to be destroyed by the injured person, and the rest of mankind, that will join with him in the execution of justice, as any other wild beast, or noxious brute, with whom mankind can have neither society nor security*. And thus captives, taken in a just and lawful war, and such only, are subject to a despotical power, which, as it arises not from compact, so neither is it capable of any, but is the state of war continued: for what compact can be made with a man that is not master of his own life? what condition can he perform? and if he be once allowed to be master of his own life, the despotical, arbitrary power of his master ceases. He that is master of himself, and his own life, has a right too to the means of preserving it; so that as soon as compact enters, slavery ceases, and he so far quits his absolute power, and puts an end to the state of war, who enters into conditions with his captive."

Mr. Locke makes a very good case that we are at war with the likes of those that refuse to rationally consider the Duke hoax.

Dave said...

I have a question about Nifong's much-coveted pension. If he's convicted of criminal contempt for actions that he took while a state employee, would that affect the pension?

Anonymous said...

Doubt it. Look at all of our elected officials. Aren't they still collecting pensions in/after prison?

No justice, no peace said...

On Slavery...alumni, students, parents, and prospects should consider Locke as Brodhead and the Gang of 88 attempt to jam the CCI down their throats...

"...The liberty of man, in society, is to be under no other legislative power, but that established, by consent, in the commonwealth; nor under the dominion of any will, or restraint of any law, but what that legislative shall enact, according to the trust put in it. Freedom then is not what Sir R[obert] F[ilmer] tells us, O[bservations]. A. 55. a liberty for every one to do what he lists, to live as he pleases, and not to be tied by any laws: but freedom of men under government is, to have a standing rule to live by, common to every one of that society, and made by the legislative power erected in it; a liberty to follow my own will in all things, where the rule prescribes not; and not to be subject to the inconstant, uncertain, unknown, arbitrary will of another man: as freedom of nature is, to be under no other restraint but the law of nature."

duke09parent said...

This set of exchanges with the judge as well as one other (I forget the date, maybe sometime in Sept or Oct) where Nifong said something like, "They [the defense] has everything there is [on the DNA]" is what came to my mind like a clap of thunder when the Dec. 15th testimony of Meehan was reported.

Holy S***, Nifong lied baldfaced to the Judge in open court on this. To me that was more shocking than his trying to hide the exculpatory DNA, which was bad enough.

Bannon knew by then that Nifong was a weasel and made sure he closed the door on any claim that Meehan made statements in his presence, just "not to me".

Anonymous said...

I suspect that Nifong *very* initially did believe Mangum was raped, and that the "We're fucked" remark referred not only to the case, but to his electability given the coverage the case had gotten in the press that far. Decline to prosecute the brutal rape of a hardworking AA student mother by a bunch of arrogant white Dukies? He could kiss the AA vote goodbye. He was already polling behind his female competitor (whose name I forget at present), who'd successfully prosecuted a high-visibility case; this would make him look even more pathetic.

Not prosecuting the Mangum case would've lost him the race for sure, so perhaps he figured that brazening it out was a viable option - particularly since he considers himself smarter than anyone else in the room.

No justice, no peace said...

For those interested, the Locke excerpts are from his "Second Treatise on Government" (1690).

Second Treatise On Government, John Locke (1690)

I post these to expose those who are attempting to deconstruct intentionally or accidentally the framework of our country's foundng. There are many, many examples in this Duke hoax alone.

Happy 4th of July.

Harry O said...

When my own son was falsely accused and persecuted by a college “wanna-be” cop and a questionable DA at the request of the college president (to make him an “example” to others), the case was thrown out of court by the judge. The judge said that the facts alleged (even if true) did not support the crime being charged.

The DA immediately refiled the same charges with a different judge (don’t let anyone tell you judge shopping is illegal) who was facing a retention election in a few months. That judge also threw the case out of court. By then, the DA ran out of time and dismissed the charges.

What I remember most about this was hearing the DA beg both of the judges to allow the case to go to trial so that the PEOPLE could decide on guilt or innocence. The DA knew that the odds were stacked against the college kids in a college town. The townpeople in the jury pool are jealous and/or angry at college kids most of the time and they will be found guilty of any crime charged, regardless of the facts of the case. Neither judge bought that.

I believe this was the situation with Nifong. He believed he could get a conviction regardless of the facts if he could just get it before a local jury. Fortunately (or unfortunately from Nifongs point of view), they could afford smart enough lawyers to prevent that from happening.

Anonymous said...

To 11:29: First, Knifong never talked to CGM at length about the alleged incident, so he never had to ask her any hard questions. His dealings with CGM were always through Linwood Wilson who never memorialized his sessions with CGM via either notes, audio, or video. Second, the fact that "non-probative" DNA was found on CGM does not necessarily mean that the owners of those DNA raped CGM. Third, once Knifong got it in his head that the lacrosse players were guilty, to him there was no turning back. It never occurred to him to ask her about the non-probative DNA. His lack of intellectual honesty made fools out of so many people.

Anonymous said...

It is doubtful that Nifong believed the accuser - at any time . It is also highly doubtful that he has a poor memory or that he didn't read the reports and other papers in a national news level case file which involved him speaking to the press .He probably took notes and was well aware of the DNA results . His plan was to get elected . He knew he had no case , but it did not matter . The accuser / victim would get cold feet as the trial date appraoched and decline to testify - he would " reluctantly " drop the case . The boys wouldn't stand trial and the injury to their lives and reputations was of no consequence to him . So what !
Nifong now wants us to believe he was simply too lazy to read ; that he really believed something happened ; that he really believed the victim ; that he did not appreciate the nuances of DNA science etc because that is negligence and not nearly as bad as an intentionl scheme to manipulate the system , peoples lives etc to get elected . Hopefully , the judge is not deceived by Nifong . Nifong , probably could not have done it alone . The others ( Gottlieb , Linwood, Meehan , Levicy ) had their roles . Nifong was the officer of the court and the public official who was supposed to prevent something such a this fiasco from happening . He had the most to gain from it. Why should he not lose big .

mac said...

The Song for Train Nifong:

Locomotive Breath (Jethro Tull)

"In the shuffling madness
of the locomotive breath,
runs the all-time loser,
headlong to his death.
He feels the piston scraping -
steam breaking on his brow -
old Charlie stoke the handle and
the train won't stop going -
no way to slow down.
He sees the children jumping off
at the stations - one by one.
His woman and his best friend -
in bed and having fun.
He's crawling down the corridor
on his hands and knees -
old Charlie stole the handle and
the train won't stop going -
no way to slow down.
He hears the silence howling -
catches anges as they fall.
And the all-time winner
has got him by the balls.
He picks up Gideon's Bible -
open at page one -
old Charlie stoke the handle and
the train won't stop going -
no way to slow down."

gak said...

I tend not to read Coulter since what little I've read tells me that she, like Nifong, ignores facts.

Anonymous said...

Is anyone wondering if fong could go "postal" with his guitar?

Anonymous said...

One thing that has been remarkably consistent with Nifong throughout this matter is that his actions have been quite transparent. The discerning eye can see right through what he does, whether talking to the press, talking at NCCU, bringing indictments, talking in courts (as DA), dropping the charges, his responses to the bar, turning over the case to a special prosecutor, being deposed, testifying at the hearing, saying he will resign at the hearing, saying disbarment is proper punishment, failing to resign, and leaving the state to avoid Judge Hudson. He's not fooling anyone, except those who are willing to close their eyes.

Anonymous said...

Full retirement in NC is 30 years or age 65. He could have retired "partially" with 28 years of service. Probably would have reduced his pension by about 10%.