Wednesday, June 27, 2007

Assorted Deposition Items

Miscellaneous items from the Nifong deposition, beyond the detailed summary.

This case involved several figures—Nifong, Mark Gottlieb, Linwood Wilson—who appear to be unethical to the core. Each used his deposition to deflect blame onto others.

So, for instance, while Gottlieb claimed in his deposition that he was not really involved in the case, Nifong went out of his way to implicate Gottlieb in all decisions—down, even, to minor details such as saying that Gottlieb up all meetings with Meehan.

Nifong also told a revealing vignette relayed to him by Gottlieb. In searching the captains’ house on March 16, before any of them had even given statements, Gottlieb recalled, they saw one of Mangum’s unpainted fingernails (which contained the DNA of an unindicted player). Said Gottlieb, “When we recovered it, it was like it was there as a trophy”—giving a sense of the . . . open . . . mind with which Gottlieb pursued the investigation, but also suggesting that Nifong was simply trusting the judgment of the police.

The Nifong deposition also made public for what I believe is the first time the Raleigh mental hospital that treated Crystal Mangum in 2005. Nifong stated that Mangum spent time in Holly Hill Hospital. The institution’s website states that it treats:

  • Depression
  • Anxiety and Stress
  • Bipolar Disorder
  • Other Emotional and Mood Disorders
  • Behavioral Problems
  • Alcohol Abuse and Dependency
  • Illicit and Prescription Drug Abuse and Dependency


Anonymous said...

The more and more you learn the more and more outrageous it is that this guy was out there saying to anyone who would listen that he was sure a rape had happened.

It seems that everyone from Nifong on down to people at Duke should have been saying, "We don't know" instead they were all professing exactly what they did know, and it was all wrong.

Eric said...

Yeah. It would be hilarious, if it were not so tragic, that Mike "I Never Read Anything" Nifong was going around boldly asserting that he knew more about the case than anyone else. Now he claims to have known *LESS* than anyone else.

mac said...

KC says he kept detailed notes -
when he interviewed Levicy.
(Why only her?)
Must have thought her credibility
was the best, and that a rape happened,
fer sure! Fer sure, fer sure, fer

But Goatcheese is apparently
Mikey's intended catcher.

Anonymous said...

Peckerwood may be getting into the barbecue business. He has a video on Can't understand it real well, but appears to be about two guys barbecuing a billy goat.

Anonymous said...

Holy Hill Hospital appears to treat what are typically referred to in clinical settings as "dual diagnosis": drug/alcohol dependency, and some kind of mood disorder. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PSYCHOSIS OR DELUSIONS.


cathyf said...

Polanski, if you think that bipolar disorder or inebrietion (especially mixed alcohol & muscle relaxent) have nothing to do with pyschosis or delusions, then you are, well, delusional.

Then there is the incident in the club where Magnum physically attacked a female customer -- a random bystander who apparently did nothing more than get in her way -- followed by passing out so that she had to be carried from the club. This would be pretty typical of a person suffering from a psychotic interlude, attempting to self-medicate with alcohol and/or other drugs, and reacting to the paranoid delusions coming from both the drugs and the underlying psychotic event.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

cathyf - your post is a good one inasmuch as it reminds me as to just how crass Nifong and the DPD were in using a clearly very troubled person for their own political gain and agenda. This is not to say that Ms. Mangum should not be held accountable for her actions, but that the degree to which the public officials used her is really objectionable.

Anonymous said...

Well, pardon me, but from Nifong's deposition, it's clear to me he didn't think he was using Mangum.
In fact it appears to me that Nifong believed that as long as Mangum was making allegations, he had his victim and he really didn't need anything else, if Mangum could recognize who was supposed to have attacked her.
So, it appears to me that whatever it is Mangum would claim, Nifong was going to pursue. Using her-I don't think so.

Anonymous said...

Crystal Gail Mangum needs to be charged with making a false report, if only to get her off the streets and back into an institution. Her many illegitimate children need to be taken from her. She has made false claims about gang rape twice now, and look at the misery she has sowed in her wake. Her behavior is reprehensible and she needs to be held accountable.

Anonymous said...

Mangum should be prosecuted. Period.

Anonymous said...


I studied psychology at Harvard as a graduate student, and I am also bipolar, so I know a lot about what mangum's real problem is.

Cathy, let's start out with a couple definitions, OK?

Psyshosis: a SEVERE mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and LOSS OF CONTACT WITH REALITY. [emphases added]

Delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence.

You cite the fact that Mangum physically attacked a customer as "proof" of her psychosis. Cathy, are you also implying that I am permitted to smack my girlfriend around when I get drunk and ornery? "Your Honor, I'm innocent, I had a--what did you call it, Cathy?--a "psychotic interlude."

Mangum is a garden-variety pill popper/alcoholic with an accompanying manageable mood disorder--but that's NOT her problem.

Mangum's problem is that she is a vicious sociopath--a criminal. She's not socialized--she's a bum.

She knew perfectly well after she emerged from her alcoholic stupor that her testimony could put CRD away for 30 years in a place where they'd likely be raped by black males. Did she care a whit? NO!


Anonymous said...

to 4:14

I cannot understand why Nifong cannot be accused of using Mangum. IF he believed that she in fact had been raped or assaulted, then like OJ, he would have kept looking for the attacker. Instead, when she and he were discredited, he "stopped" looking. I mean the DNA from her panties, anus,etc. filled a set of petri dishes.

Since they all knew she had "mental" problems, maybe it wasn't white Duke guys. He did not keep looking. No one has. They used this poor pathetic liar.

Gary Packwood said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Thanks Polanski for weighing in. I'm no shrink, but the tossing around of CGM's alleged bi-polar(ness) is pretty haphazard, and the disorder is fairly rare (I think).

She is more likely a drug addict, opportunist, and angry f'd up skank who thought she could cash in. I also think she's probably not that bright, committed a criminal act by virtue of the false accusation, which may have come about by virtue of being thoroughly used by the DPD led by Nifong's political aspirations.

Anonymous said...

Again, reading Nifong's deposition, I personally don't believe he was using Mangum. I presume he envisioned himself as some sort of a champion for his "victim." As long as she made an allegation, he believed he had to proceed-at least that what comes trough to me after reading his deposition. He seems genuinly surprised other people expected some other evidence to support Mangum's story, cause to him as long as Mangum was making an allegation, he had a case. At least that what he seems to be claiming-that as long as he had his "victim" who could ID her "attackers" he could proceed to trial.

Anonymous said...

Um - one question (and I ask because I'm genuinely puzzled by it) - how did a fingernail come to contain someone's DNA?

Gary Packwood said...

Eric 3:32 said...

...Yeah. It would be hilarious, if it were not so tragic, that Mike "I Never Read Anything" Nifong was going around boldly asserting that he knew more about the case than anyone else. Now he claims to have known *LESS* than anyone else.
Good point as we see the case today, however Nifong probably just wanted to move the case into court; drop the rape charge; negotiate (in high drama) down the kidnapping and sexual assault charge to simple assault with the AV's permission and then ....walk away with victory.

Nifong wins the election; Duke gets rid of a privilege white sports team thus changing the campus culture in a eye blink; the G88 get their required diversity course and Broadhead opens the gate to women, AA Blacks and Duke become the center of the universe - in the South - for women and people of color...putting Harvard and Yale to shame.

Nifong retires as a famous former DA much in demand as speaker/consultant; several staff members at Duke apply for and win positions as President of a small college; the privileged white bad boy agenda takes off across the nation along with the victim service system (Safe Haven) at colleges and universities and Broadhead wins an international award of some sort at the time of his retirement.

There is no need for Nifong to read anything if he already knew that he was going to drop the rape charge eventually.

When Reade was in London and heard that the rape charge had been dropped he wondered why the other charges were not also dropped.

Well, Reade, I think we now know what Nifong wanted; what Duke wanted and what the G88 wanted.

The three guys were just expendable...except to their parents ... which Nifong, Duke and the G88 forgot about.

Never underestimate the love of a parent.

Anonymous said...

Well, if you really are clueless, if you were to touch a fingernail (which doesn't have to be attached to any person), you could leave your skin cells on it, and very sensitive Y-STR tests would pick it up. Of if it was in your trash can, if you blew your nose on a tissue, and threw it into the trash can, and that tissue came in contact with a fingernail, your DNA could transfer onto that nail.

mac said...

Nothing exclusionary about being
drugged-up, bipolar (or some other
mental illness) and simultaneously
have a personality disorder:
CGM could have all of those characteristics,
and still be "an angry, f'd up
skank who thought she could cash in."

She could be the jackpot, matching
all the fruit.

Anonymous said...

Nifong wasn't going to negotiate anything. The lawyers for the players said right away there were not going to be any deals, and Nifong had to know it. So, I don't see how he could have thought he was going to go into court and negotiate something.

Anonymous said...

Anon @ 4:32...

I tried on this blog last night to assert it was possible "something happened that night" (not mentionging any involvement of the duke boys) and I got blog-slapped for suggesting that Samples could ever be a victim of anything because she has no credibility. Thus, their arguments leading one to believe only credible people can be victims of crime. There are some sickos on this board (yes, im talking about you "Dogboy").

Anonymous said...

Well, 5:08, why don't you come up with what that "something" was, instead of just sprearding innuendo?
It's very easy to say, well, "something happened" without having to explain what that "something" was, and having any evidence for it.

Anonymous said...

My daughter struggled much of her young adult life with diagnosed bi-polar and alcohol/drug addiction. She bounced in and out of Holly Hill and also managed to get through UNC. While her bad episodes clearly made her capable of doing awful and destructive things, remorse and shame were inevitable followups to all of her behaviors. As sick as she was, she was always able to understand the implications of her actions when she was sober, and to try to repair the damage. CGM has no such shame, conscience or superego. She is just deliberately evil.

Gary Packwood said...

Anonymous 5:01 said...

...Nifong wasn't going to negotiate anything. The lawyers for the players said right away there were not going to be any deals, and Nifong had to know it. So, I don't see how he could have thought he was going to go into court and negotiate something.
Most alleged rape cases involve some form of a negotiated settlement/ matter what they defense attorneys say at the front end.

I just called my attorney and asked her that question.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter what most alleged cases involve. This was by no means your regular alleged rape case.
The lawyers were pretty clear there would be no deals, and I sincerely doubt Nifong believed they were going to plea.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely he thought he'd get them to cop to misdemeanor boob-grabbing or something. Anything was win for him

Anonymous said...

I have been in True Crime forums for ten years, and have observed women on several occasions making crazy accusations of men and every single time they get away with it--scott free. For instance, in 2001 a woman named Nancy Krebs appeared before DA Alex Hunter, claiming she had been raped and molested by John Ramsey and his best friend Fleet White--and claimed to have real information on the murder of Jonbenet Ramsey. Her claims were completely idiotic and fantastic--and yet DA Hunter, at first, went public, calling her "highly credible."

Years later, after being completely discredited, Krebs and her supporters still maintain that she wasn't lying--and people who investigated her crazy accusations gave her a free pass because they found out she had tried to insert herself into a variety of high profile cases, and couldn't keep her story straight. She never paid for her vicious accusations, she just played the crazy card and moved on.

God only knows what life she's freely ruining today. I really think a man would have been prosecuted


Anonymous said...


re "something could have happened"

I've had fun with this concept before. I need to be blunt, so don't accuse me of being a racist.

Forget who might have been in the bathroom with Mangum. Let's suppose some horny lacrosse player(s) was in bathroom with Mangum. What could have credibly happened?

There is only 1 thing I can think of: someone paid extra for a blow job. This woman is a whore, so it's not outrageous to speculate that some horny guy wanted to have an orgasm--even with someone as unattractive as Mangum (after all, there is precedent for this behavior--remember Hugh Grant and his in-vehicle BJ?).

On the other hand, it's not credible that any coercion was used. No evidence exists to support that theory.

So, if someone makes the argument that "something" might have transpired that night, think about for-hire serious cock sucking or testicle munching. There is no tertium quid.


Anonymous said...

Considering all the CSI shows on nowadays, wouldn't the fact the captains didn't bother to sanitize the house be proof that they didn't have anything to hide? I would think that by now everybody knows that if you commit a sexual crime, you have to get rid of the evidence and leave the place spotless, so how could any criminal overlook a fake fingernail?

Finally, can you imagine Gottlieb starring in CSI Duh-rham?

Anonymous said...

After all the negative publicity in NC and for its justice system, I think that at least the 3 amigos will get what the deserve. There does not seem to be any sympathy in high places for them. The lynch mob that came after the INNOCENT can still wave their lassos, but they will have no standing in these hearings.

The rest of us have to stay alert, because they will continue to spred their poison in college campuses from coast to coast.

We have not won the war, but at least we have won this battle.

Anonymous said...

How did he think he was going to get a plea on something? The lawyers said they won't plea. Please, even Nifong had to know he was not going to get any pleas out of this one.
Yes, maybe some poor person woud plea even if they are innocent, but not the Duke players.
You don't think Nifong would recognize that? I don't think he ever expected them to plea. Certainly there are no reports of any plea negotiation ever going on.

Anonymous said...

If CGM is not going to be charged, she should at least be locked up in a 'One flew over the Cuckcoo's Nest' institution!!!!

mac said...

Nifong expected them to plea,
early in the game; they (the attorneys) -
insinuated/stated as much.

Nifey (IMO) knew in short order
that this wasn't going to be the
case; his frustration began to
show, and his comments about non-
cooperation were mostly arising
from that (again, IMO.)

Anonymous said...

Are you kidding?!?!? There is not one shred of evidence anything happened, and certainly not any sex of any kind. Oral sex would have involved DNA transfer, too, and we all know very well that there was not a single spec of LAX DNA found anywhere on the person of Ms. Mangum. Thank, God. If there had been oral sex with a LAX player, there would have been a DNA match, and the LAX player probably would be in the middle of a trial by now, whether the act was consensual or not.


Anonymous said...


I'm just speculating; I'm not averring anything. But 5 minutes is enough time to ejaculate--and it's possible whoever ejaculated in a handkerchief--or she swallowed everything like a good whore.

The point I was making was simply that "whatever" happened still makes CDR victims and CGM a lying whore.


Anonymous said...

Oh for crying out loud.
The Y-STR tests are so sensitive they can pick a single cell. Meehan's DNA was found. If Mangum had oral sex with any players, even if she "swallowed", Y-STR test would have picked that DNA.

Anonymous said...


I'm no DNA expert, but wouldn't gargling with Listerine kill all cells?


Anonymous said...

If CGM was white would she have been arrested by now?

Anonymous said...


Hard to say--NO!


Anonymous said...

Lets talk about Santa Claus now. Santa may have left his DNA when he came down the chimney, but maybe he didn't, maybe he was in the back seat of the police cruiser when Mangum was picked up going home from Lubianna's late night class. It's OK, I believe in Santa Claus and psychotic moments are the best. Evil is as good an explanation as any for what motivated these people, and sociopath is a good starting word.

Anonymous said...

7:19 You are correct, but the single-cell sensitivity is a fallacy...a good PCR test can SOMETIMES pick up single clean, purified copy of DNA...but not really a single cell in a single swab in most cases. I do this kind of work for a living...something of a PCR guru.

But you are correct in spirit...there are not less than many millions of the little wrigglers in a single shot and the stuff does tend to linger, and she DID test positive for other male DNA orally I believe.

Any no, Polanski...listerine might kill the cells but would leave the DNA intact and would not stop detection by PCR. Bleach is your only sure bet!

Sorry if this was more geeky that you wanted!

ES Trinity 1990

Duke 85 said...

Her fake nail "contained" a non-indited player's DNA? What? Never heard that before. Who says?

Anonymous said...

Thanks, ES.

However, if the scenario was testicle sucking + masturbation, and, say, Collin exploded into his lacrosse stick, there wouldn't necessarily be any DNA on Mangum, or would Collin's testicle sweat be detected on Mangum's lips?

I know this is silly, but I'm trying to cover all the bases for Al, Jesse, Boyce and Wahneema.


Anonymous said...

Polanski, in case you haven't yet noticed, the DNA testing was VERY sensitive, and did NOT require ejaculation or any sperm at all -- the merest rubbing, or scraping, or indeed any touching at all, could leave the kind of "partial epithelial cell" that Shithead Meeker's tests detected.

That's how we KNOW that NO lacrosse player even laid a hand on The Whore.

Anonymous said...

I feel sorry for KC since Blogger won't allow him to ban posters, cause some here surely deserved to be banned.

Anonymous said...

8:21pm is right. Bleach is the only thing that would have worked. That's why the black thugs who committed a hate crime in Tennessee by raping and sodomizing and then killing a white couple, then stuffing them in a dumpster poured bleach down their throats. Both the guy and the girl were raped and oral sex was forced.
Can anybody imagine what would have happened if the race of victims/perpetrators had been reversed?
There was barely any news coverage just like the three riots, attacks, and murders during Juneteeth (black thug celebrations where fried chicken and watermelon are on the menu) were barely covered, even though attacks and murders took place.
Lord, how I am beginning to dread black people in general.

Gary Packwood said...

mac 6:19 said...
...Nifong expected them to plea, early in the game; they (the attorneys) insinuated/stated as much.

...Nifey (IMO) knew in short order that this wasn't going to be the case; his frustration began to show, and his comments about non-cooperation were mostly arising from that (again, IMO.)

If it had not been for those defense attorneys this case would have been nearly a perfect frame.

The defense attorneys have written the model for future frames on or near a university campus.

I'm guessing that there were at least three groups at Duke; two groups at the AABlack University and two or three in Durham that were enabling this case to move forward.

It takes a village.

christoph said...

9:24 Your racism has already made you a dreadful person.

Anonymous said...


How am I racist?

Anonymous said...

Mangum's fake fingernail was there "like it was a trophy"? How did Gottlieb come to that conclusion, I wonder. Was the fake fingernail mounted and hung on the wall? Was it on display in a glass case? The sheer absurdity of some of Gottlieb's statements in this case make me wonder how this man can function in everyday life, let alone have a career as a police "investigator." There are times when he seems so stupid that he clearly appears to be a danger to himself and others.