Met with Nifong 4-13: Nifong not interested in dialogue or slowing down; said that he knew more about the case than they did. Nifong "extraordinarily agitated and upset"--ended meeting with expletive directed at Joe Cheshire.
Was following the case even before involved--Nifong statements "way beyond what a trial lawyer should be permitted to say."
May hearing had "chaotic feeling."
Nifong statements "took this case out of the court system and deposited it in the hands of the public."
Had never seen anything like Nifong's derisive laughter at Kirk Osborn when Osborn said that Reade Seligmann had an airtight alibi. [Nifong was smirking as Smith recalled this story.]
Smith is now walking the panel through the case, speaking about the various discovery requests that the defense had filed, and Nifong's consistent non-responses when he was asked if there were additional material beyond what had been included in the Meehan report.
Defense DNA motion--Nifong never contacted any defense attorney between the 13th and the 15th; in meeting in chambers before hearing, Nifong feigned complete surprise about material that the defense DNA motion contained.
Pleased when AG took over the case because confident that case would be heard "fairly."
"We believed that the AG would be unbiased and fair."
"We believed that when Reade Seligmann's alibi was put out and Elmostafa was arrested, that efforts were made to attack that information. We knew that Crystal Mangum had come somehow nine months later, in December, to give entirely new factual information, to contest Reade Seligmann's alibi. We knew that wasn't going to happen with the attorney general."
Asked if he ever had dealt with anything like Nifong as prosecutor--said no.
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75 comments:
Wade Smith is great.
He knows just how far to go.....and just the right way to turn a phrase to appear passionate....but not impassioned.
Debrah
This is really boring...we know hes getting disbarred...there are no new facts coming out.
I will be interested when the civil lawsuits are filed and the criminal charges filed against Nifong.
How much this costs him in terms of his pocket and his freedom are really all that matters.
I feel sorry for Nifongs family and let this be a lesson to us all to watch wait we say and do no matter what kind of power we think we have. Humility is a key of life.
I don't feel sorry for his family, certainly not his wife, who was egging him on the whole time.
Hang Nifong by the balls. He had no problems trying to hang others.
I feel for NIfong's son, not wife.
It is clear talented people dont prosecute ethics violations for the State Bar.
I like the split screen they are using....showing Mikey as he is being discussed.
This process is going to be tedious in some ways, but it's worth it to all of us who are interested in a fair justice system in this country.
I'm sitting here going over in my mind all the things I'm putting off that I need to be doing; however, this is an important week for justice, and I can do all those things later.
Think of these 5 days as a working vacation. I've just cancelled two previously scheduled meetings this week. So what?
Even Kitty Diva is mesmerized by Spooky Mikey!
Debrah
I agree about the wife, she picked Nifong. The kid is just stuck with Nifong as a father.
It's interesting and sort of surprising that the defense hadn't had any previous intelligence about other men's DNA as late as August.
This shows how extremely important the DNA actually was, if Nifong had been able to keep it hidden they might never have know about it, Crystal's 'parners/customers' must not have been found by the defense at least up until that time.
I always assumed they had hard evidence of her working as a prostitutute, in terms of men who paid her for sex.
"I feel sorry for Nifongs family and let this be a lesson to us all to watch wait we say and do no matter what kind of power we think we have. Humility is a key of life."
He tried to put 3 innocent kids in jail for most of their lives, just to further his career, and you feel sorry for him?
Nifong is a sociopath. He deserves to do hard time.
This is boring? I certainly don't think so. Hearing about Nifong laughing at Osborn is fascinating IMO
The other guys are snickering now.....Nifong is really a true coward to bring his son into this. He should have surrendered his license and gone to work digging ditches
if you are bored with the hearings-leave.
the Fong's boy is off limits, but Cy should get a dose too, IMO
If a defense lawyer says that there is alibi evidence, the prosecutor has to at least look at it. He has to. I mean, this case turned on eyewitness identification of the suspects. The identification was shaky, at best. Therefore, he was obligated to test it. I mean, this is so obvious, so basic, not to professional ethics only, but to doing one's job as a prosecutor--i.e., to get people who actually did it.
Is the 'Fong's son there?????? OMG.
How is he going to get around KNOWING about the male DNA, KNOWING it was not in the report and acting surprised by the motion??
I don't see how he gets out of this, even claiming stupidity won't do it, since Meehan is on record as saying he told him about it, and they agreed to leave it out of the report, this is an obvious, clear cut violation.
The idea that unidentified DNA found on a woman who claimed no sex except w/her boyfriend and rape w/no condoms and ejaculation in her mouth is freaking laughable.
All these prosecutors need to do is ask the right questions...
They look like they just got out of law school!!!
Wow - the trial does not disappoint - I think we are seeing Nifong having a breakdown on TV.
I agree, this woman is doing a terrible, rambling job, but I don't think it matters that much. This panel already has the timeline and all the transcripts.
This is why I don't think trials should be televised, it demands that lawyers are lawyers AND telegenic showman.
She's probably a great lawyer and is slogging through the information but to the layperson she isn't a Johnny Cochran type orator so we dismiss her.
I agree, there is just too much evidence and too many stories Nifong told himself. It's only fitting that his own words are being used against, and we all know he told way too many stories for them all to be true.
Everytime he was asked about the DNA he made up a different excuse. I don't know who told more stories, Nifong or Crystal.
I just cannot believe he brought his son to these proceedings to sit behind his father and hear about all his misdeeds.
He should have resigned and given up his license first. I can see not feeling for Nifong and wanting him to rot, but anyone who doesn't feel for his kid is just cold.
JLS says....
This is just a show trial to show that NC is not like Nifong. Nifong was a fool to play along.
What would an appropriate punishment be for Nifong?
Disbarred and pension stripped?
That seems likely.
No one in the public has any information that Cy was "egging him on" - that is pure speculation written as a fact. There is no evidence to support any actions of Cy. Leave the kid alone = he is not one of the adult here,
Who knows what kind of kid Mike Nifong raised? For all we know he is just as much of a lying, dishonrable coward as his father, or maybe not, we don't know. Why should the son be deserving of sympathy automatically, just for being a family member?
I don't feel sorry for anyone in Nifong's family.
Not in the least.
These people are Durham scum who have infiltrated the old "homeboy" city of Durham network...reminiscent of the town's tobacco peddlers of the past.
Everything they espouse to be against, they are themselves. The most repugnant of humanity.
Like Diane Catotti, Cy Gurney is a liberal reptile with a slit-for-a-mouth smile.
Mikey, Cy, and their family have lived off this mendacity. It is the foundation of their lives.
Let them perish from their attempted destruction of others.
Debrah
>>He tried to put 3 innocent kids in jail for most of their lives<<
Other prosecutors HAVE put innocent kids in jail for years and even decades, only to have them found innocent later on.
Should those prosecutors do hard time too?
There is a difference between an HONEST mistake and what Nifong did.
Nifong ignored an alibi, and in fact, he engineered the coaching of his witness to change her story to work around the alibi and the lack of DNA...the timeline changed and all of a sudden instead of ejaculating in her mouth, Seligman never touched her.
Nifong knew these boys were innocent and didn't care.
Where are the potbangers and the gang of 88?
Yeah, right. LOL
I feel for Nifong's son, but think it is good he is there. We have no way to know what his father has told him about this case. After hearing the testimony, whether he will admit it to himself or not, he will know the truth.
Doubt it, I used to think that when confronted with facts, most people would recognize the objective truth, but I know now that I was wrong. Most people will stick to their position, regardless of the facts or the truth staring them in the face, especially when they have a personal/emotional interest in it.
I actually no longer think most people are fit to be on a jury, they are too stupid, too easily swayed by TV and movie trials and too prejudiced and emotional. Its a miracle anyone gets convicted in this day and age.
Jun 12, 2007 12:17:00 PM
Anonymous said...
This is really boring...we know hes getting disbarred [aka guilty]...there are no new facts coming out.
Funny, that's just what Nifong said about the Lacrosse team back in the day.
To 12:49 Anon-
Hey idiot.....this trial is going on right now because Mike Nifong and lots of other people (maybe you were one of them) prejudged others without knowing facts.
You don't know Nifong's son. None of us do! Please extend him the same courtesy we demanded for the players and they did not receive.
It's this kind of thinking that got us all here in the first place. Have you not learned anything?
Disbarment depends on whether his defense team can raise any even plausible scenarios that explain his more egregious violations, I don't think they can, but its possible. "Too stupid to be DA" isn't going to work for them though.
It is hard to hear that police officers were trying to stop the escalation of this case and pointing out the lack of evidence. I knew there had to be some--but to hear that they tried to take it up the chain and Nifong just ignored it... It is hard to imagine what on earth motivates this man. He must really hate Duke...
What continues to draw most of us to this case is the desire for a clean and fair justice system that we can put our trust in. Nifong abused his power for personal ends, and for that I sincerely hope he is punished. Nifong is a villain and deserves a lot more than he is going to get. But leave his son out of the discussion. He has nothing to do with the administratin of justice and nothing worthwhile will come of it. Nifong is more than ample target, and the fact we are enjoying his trial, just a year after this whole fiasco began, is really quite incredible. While other prosecutors haven't gotten away with rogue injustice, it is nice that at least the smelliest garbage will sometimes get taken out.
I, too, am underwhelmed with the prosecution. Glad they are doing it, wish they were a little more clear in their points and agressive in their prosecution. But, hopefull, all in good time.
Jack Straw
Nifong is a perfect example of the Peter Principle...he was okay in traffic court and pleading out cases w/poor/dumb/guilty defendants, when he was appointed interum DA, apparently because Easly didnd't like Freda Black he was in way over his head.
It was interstesting the TH comments about how Nifong did so many things that were inappropriate...refusing to let the defense basically give their case away, the snickering and laughing at opposing counsel, the statements about innocent people not needing lawyers.
He was never up to the task, thats why he was found out so quickly and why he is now a defendant today, incompetant+arrogant almost always ends badly.
Mike Lee, which 12:49 are you aiming at?
Specify. There are about three.
As for bringing his son -- IMHO, more evidence that Nifong is a sociopath -- just another attempt to manipulate those who have empathetic emotions: "they won't convict me in front of my son".
Note that sociopaths do care what happens to themselves and often have an overly inflated sense of self. Anyhow, this one's been caught, let's see if he can yet beat the rap.
Nifong’s son should be off limits, most importantly by Nifong. But now that he has dragged his son into the case for some type of sympathy (see previous posters) It is too late. I too feel sorry for the son but even madder at the father who seems to have a hate and disregard for young men including his own.
Tom E.
I'm sorry, I don't feel sorry for his son. He didn't have to come to court, a public show of support for Mike Nifong, given what we know of his unethical and criminal conduct opens one up for some amount of criticism.
I love Wade Smith, but I guess I am surprised that he does not know Elmostafa's name (kept calling him Mustafa--maybe we have all been calling him Elmo for so long that Wade Smith thought that was his first name, and Mustafa was his last name??) Anyway--Smith is so revered as a lawyer in NC that he will be a tough guy to cross by Freedman (who is such a wimpy attorney!)
Is Bannon going to testify?
duke2009mom
I meant to write "other prosecutors have gotten away with rogue injustice" - my typo.
To 12:58 who has lost faith in his fellow man to make rational decisions, I disagree. After someone has made taken a strong position on an issue and made an emotional commitment to it, if you will, then many people - whether it is the Group of 88, Tara Levicy, or Nancy Grace - refuse to back down and would rather argue the utterly inarguable than admit they were wrong. However, for people who are still unbiased and have not made an emotional commitment, you can see a clear change in position. Look at the attitude of the nation towards the lacrosse players. And while some MSM remain mired in their position (NYT, DH-S, Nancy Grace) many media outlets are clearly covering the story from the correct angle today and showing Nifong to be the true criminal.
Jack Straw
Court TV says they expect Levicy to
testify. But...they've gone
to California for the Spector
trial. Pooh.
Wonder why Nifong's son is there?
Is this "Bring Your Child To Work
Day?" or something? What was
his mother thinking? Or maybe
she was just punishing Mikey,
saying:
"This is what your father
is doing with your inheritance!"
Check for divorce filings in the
very near future.
12:49 who calls Nifong's son a lying dishonorable coward is wrong. We don't know his son and he has nothing to do with this spectacle. He has been 100% silent and has only shown support for his father despite his transgressions.
Regardless, he has done nothing to deserve being bashed and anyone who is prejudging him is no better than a potbanger.
I did NOT call his son a coward, I said NOBODY KNOWS what kind of son Nifong raised, and that he MIGHT be a dishonorable coward like his father,or as I also said 'maybe not.'
You can't refute that unless you know the kid personally, maybe he's like Nifong, maybe not.
Cy is for sure a part of this Hoax! remember the single motion that the South's Greatest D.A. filed? Either you don't remember or want to convince the ignorant of something false.
Anonymous 12:49PM said: "Other prosecutors HAVE put innocent kids in jail for years and even decades, only to have them found innocent later on. Should those prosecutors do hard time too?"
If they did it by violating due process and the civil rights of the falsely-accused and convicted, then most definitely yes.
Listen, you take families like Nifong's where the wife is just as much a pants-wearer as the husband, and you can bet that Cy is no sweet smelling bystander.
Even their home is in her name. She might be a bigger prick and racebaiter than he is.
She lays down with that goon every night. Anyone who can do that is no innocent little wifey. Nifong and his family are S**T!
People keep calling for Nifong having his pension stripped or forfeited as part of his punishment. While I am sympathetic to the spirit of this potential punishment, people should be aware that forfeiture of a pension is generally not consistent with law in the U.S.
Pensions, particularly government pensions, are accrued over time as a contractual property right. To demand Nifong forfeit his pension in punishment is effectively the same as demanding that his house or bank account be confiscated. It is certainly consistent with priciples of property rights that Nifong be fined an amount that effectively consumes his pension to pay, but that's a bit different from what I read people as calling for.
It would be great, and if I get around to it I'll do it myself, if someone would research and post the benefit structure of Nifong's pension. Benefits are typically a function of both highest average wages received on the job over some period of time, as well as years on the job. There has been lots of talk throughout the case that Nifong was trying to hold onto the DA's office to boost his pension. I'd like to see the benefit formula to understand the exact impact.
I don't care about his pension, that's silly, I agree.
I want him disbarred and then charged with maliciouis prosecution and whatever other criminal charges are appropriate.
So 1:19, Nifong's son is guilty until proven innocent in your mind. That is the line of thinking that helped perpetrate this hoax. How about you give a teenage boy the benefit of the doubt until he gives you a reason to think otherwise?
Hey, the son is open bait ... his parents choose to bring him front and center to this trial!
If they did not want him mentioned/ involved they should have not brought him.
West coast question: I'm trying to watch on WRAL; are they adjourned right now, or am I having problems playing the live video?
JLS says....,
re: MB
If they did it by violating due process and the civil rights of the falsely-accused and convicted, then most definitely yes.
Exactly, this case is about a prosecutor violating his oath, not the race or sex or social position of anyone involved.
1:38,
You are arguing about something that doesn't even make sense, guilty of what?
I don't think the boy deserves AUTOMATIC sympathy, just like I don't think a criminal defendant is to be AUTOMATICALLY presumed innocent by anyone but the judge and the jury--that would mean assuming every time that the police were wrong, that isn't what presumed innocent means.
He has already given me a 'reason to think otherwise' by showing up at the hearing. I also have no sympathy for family members of criminal defendants who are always wailing about how their son/brother is innocent and was framed by the cops, everybody else is lying, blah, blah, blah.
His appearance is a show of support for Mike Nifong, which is a tacit approval of what Nifong did, I am not a believer that you support your family when they engage in criminal conduct in terms of trying to help them evade the consequences.
I think the honorable people involved in this whole case (KC of course being one along with the attorneys, players, families etc) are in search of justice. That's what these proceedings and in my opinion DIW are all about.
Let's keep that in mind and avoid the natural urge to seek vengence instead.
Vengeance is sweet sayeth the Lord.
Anon 1:43
I guess you would abandon your father if he committed a crime, robbed or murdered someone or the like.
You turn your back on loved ones when they make mistakes and do bad things. How big of you.
Personally I admire Nifong's kid for showing up and subjecting himself to abuse he doesn't deserve.
Your an idiot if you think he has approved of his father's actions by showing up and supporting him. He may very well acknowledge his father has done wrong, but he is man enough to support him anyway.
Apparently you are without sin and have lived a life that entitles you to cast stones. Congratulations, you're better than all of us.
Personally I think your line of thinking (especially that you would abandon your family if they made a mistake and needed you) is pretty sad.
I guess your family better hope they never screw up and need your support!!!~
Anon 1:43, please move to Russia.
Assuming innocence always means that we presume people are not guilty until they are found guilty in a court of law.
Take a bow Mr. Potbanger.
Hmm, so if my father commited murder what am I supposed to do, pay for a defense lawyer to try and get him acquitted? If he raped someone would I smear his victim in public? I hope not.
You don't know why Nifong's son is there, for all you know he may be of the Wendy Murphy mindset that Mangum was raped by the 3 boys and got away with it. You Do Not Know Why He Is There.
Support for a family member who has done wrong should be done in private, not public.
How do you know the son doesn't approve of Nifong's actions? Do you know him? If you don't, you are talking out your a**.
I said he doesn't automatically deserve sympathy, you are free to feel sorry for him all you want
Just got back. It's really nice to be gone for a while and then catch up on the blog and the comments.
I assume the current witness is Wade Smith.
He's very sharp and didn't get tricked in the latest stuff about the claims of racial slurs.
1:53
Really? So, every time a person is charged with a crime we are supposed to believe that the cops got the wrong guy or framed the wrong guy, that this person is factually innocent?
You have no idea what the presumption of innocence means.
ALL it means is that the state has to prove its case based on evidence and that being charged in and of itself doesn't consistute any evidence of guilt, that's all.
This idea that people have today that you can't condemn someone or you are supposed to BELIEVE the person is innocent rather than refrain from judgement or that 'innocent until proven' guilty is for the public at large is another reason our society is falling apart and crime is rising again.
Idiot...you are making points against yourself....EXACTLY, you don't know why he is there other than to support his father.
So don't assume he is guilty of something/anything as a result.
Assuming things based on no evidence is for potbangers.
The son has done nothing to lead you to make any assumptions about him other than he supports his father.
None of us know why is there....yet you condemn him for it. What does that make you?
Ol' Mikey's got them cosmic (Duke) blues again...what a paragon of virtue he is...he Had to pursue...he had a DUTY to pursue...(*cue Monkees I'm a Believer yeah yeah yeah yeah)
Mikey must've stolen his diploma off some real attorney's wall.
The evidence is his presence in the courtroom.
In my opinion his presence in the courtroom means that I do not have automatic sympathy for him.
A public show of support for his father is tantamount to condoning what he did. He can 'support' his father in private, that isn't what he's doing in the courtroom.
But this is a stupid side dialogue, I don't have sympathy for the son because he is publicly supporting his father, that is my choice and my right. You have a right to believe he is there to support his father but also doens't agree with his father's crmiinal actions. I don't. You do. That's america.
Take a recess posters!
I'm reprising this INCUBUS tune, only this is the acoustic version with a different video. I am adamant that this tune could be used as an ode to Reade, Collin, and Dave with a collage of photos of them just as is used in this one.
Many of the lyrics align with the lacrosse players.
With a little poetic as well as dramatic license, this could make a great video on the Duke 3.
Listen to some of the lyrics again. I love this song.
Take a break and weigh in on this most diva of ideas!
I_only_want_the_truth
Debrah
If Nifong's son is there, then we should assume that he is simply doing his duty as a son.
No matter Nifong's sins, and he has plenty, he is still human and deserves the support his son is showing.
I imagine that the son is ashamed of what his father has done, though.
You wrote, "A public show of support for his father is tantamount to condoning what he did."
So, anytime someone appears in court alonside a defendent I guess they condone what that defendent did.
Gotta love your logic.
I don't.
I imagine that his son feels his father is being unfairly railroaded for pressing charges against rich, white lacrosse players in his understandible desire to see justice for a black, downtrodden, college student, mother trying to feed her kids.
Forget about Nifong's son, for G/d's sake.
That little wart on a rat's patootie isn't an issue.
Nifong's clueless sister, however, used to, early on, write glowing testimonials about her brother in letters to the N & O. LOL!!!
Someone needs to tell her that butt-for-brains Mikey is all grown up now and is a criminal.
Debrah
You wrote, "I imagine that his son feels his father is being unfairly railroaded for pressing charges against rich, white lacrosse players in his understandible desire to see justice for a black, downtrodden, college student, mother trying to feed her kids."
The point is that you don't know that, yet you are assuming that.
You imagine that......that's wrong. Leave the assuming and imagining to potbangers. That is all.
This whole holier than thou attitude about needing to be sympathetic to Nifong's son and this wrong headed idea about what the presumption of innocence means is a big part of the negative legacy left by Mikey.
Every criminal from here to eternity is going to say, hey, look at what happened in Durham, my client is innocent too.
Mike's crimes are not only going to make it harder to get convictions all around, but are going to make it extremely difficult to get rape convictions in future acquantance situations.
Every prosecutor in the country will be accused of being a Mike Nifong.
I supported the Duke boys from the beginning, as soon as they said no sex occured instead of a consent defense I knew it was a cock up, but generally, police and DA's do not prosecute demonstrably innocent people, they generally get the guilty guys and are lucky when they get a conviction.
2:20
You imagine the son is ashamed of what his father did, what's the difference in your imagining and mine?
Answer: There is no difference, just opinion.
Another poster wrote that...but you're right we are only belaboring the point.
I will end the discussion by saying that it's wrong to assume anything other than the fact that he is there to support his father.
I agree. Leave the kid alone. Whether or not he's a sociopath like his dear old dad is irrelevant. Frankly, I don't care, since that is far from germain to this case. The person on trial here is Mike Nifong, and it's a truly great time for American justice because of that. It isn't his kid, it's Mike Nifong himself. It's unethical to take out one's wrath on the child of the focus of that anger, and for this case to be before us, far too many ethical lapses have occurred already.
I concur with poster 2:23.
I think the Nifong's are using their son to get sympathy from the panel. He is an innocent person, like a visual aide, his presence reminds the panel that Mr. Nifong is a family man. HIs defense is trying to paint a picture that he is an upstanding member of the community. Of course it could back fire, as most people would never put their children in this situation. Mr. Nifong and probably his wife are calculating sociopaths trying to save their standing in the community and their way of life. I'm certain they think he did nothing wrong.
Why would anyone assume the boy had a CHOICE in being in court? Odds are that if Mom and dear old Dad say you're going to court, then by golly he's going to court!!
As someone else said, the kid is probably being used as a prop by Mom & Dad.
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